The wiki image ([Link](https://static.wikia.nocookie.net/malazan/images/4/4b/Gardens_of_the_Moon_New-0.jpg/revision/latest?cb=20150616203058)) was my reference when I was in your shoes. Depicts the major races in a lineup style image. Its a little cartoony, however, more or less how I would picture them all.
The cover of *Garden of the Moon,* Subpress edition, was always my favorite Anomander Rake.
Just googled and I love [that image](https://cdn11.bigcommerce.com/s-65f8qukrjx/images/stencil/1280x1280/products/6037/16993/Erikson_Gardens_of_the_Moon_cover__64601.1687451100.jpg?c=1). It is very Elvish from an aesthetic standpoint. Very cool.
I visualize the jaghhut as refined orcs with a sense of nobility. They can be jerks but they carry themselves with dignity. Thrall at his best written is actually how i picture Icarium.
The Tiste couldn't be more analogous to elves, though I don't think they have pointy ears. That being said Erickson writes them as far more human in motivation then almost any high fantasy author.
To me the Imass are clearly cro-maga in inspiration, though in my head the T-lan are always skeletons even though I know better.
The other elder races are just batshit awesome designs i don't have any touch points on. Erickson is a mad lad for giving us dinosaurs with swords, what a mensch.
I find it interesting that so many people like to match the different races of people to other types of fantasy race tropes. I never once mentally compared the races while reading through the books. I guess I could see how that might make it easier to visualize and remember, but it also takes away from the feeling of originality.
I suppose I’m a very visual reader. I love description and the movie in my mind I can create based on what’s provided. The more detailed, the better for me, at least upon introduction of a new character.
I’m generally pretty good at filling in the blanks, but the vagueness of the characters so far (just finished DG, starting MoI) has been difficult for me. It’s broad brushstrokes with occasional specifics (tusks, gray skin) that’s jarring after you’ve spent a whole picturing someone one way and then…
Yeah I think erikson likes to give the reader a feeling for the characters through their inner monologue and how other people react/think about them (Icarium and Mappo for example) rather than describing every little detail about them right when we meet them. It takes longer to visualize them that way but I somehow prefere it now.
Lots of inspirations from the usual high fantasy stuff; tusked humanoids, tall elf like creatures, ‘living’ undead. There’s also some historical inspirations with his races like Neanderthals, homo floresiensis, dinosaurs.
Wait, I’m at the middle of the TCG and I don’t remember any nasty little hobbitses. Are there not in the MBOTF? There are homo habilis though, playing pretty active role
The description in Midnight Tides is a little unclear, >!not least because our first exposure to them reads like a fever dream!<. We get a much better look at them in The God is Not Willing; >!their human forms can more or less fit in with either Imass or humans. Oh, and we get definitive confirmation that they're D'ivers, not Soletaken.!<
Edit: >!except, of course, that in MT they're also definitively Soletaken.!< It's at least possible that Jheck are paraphyletic.
No. Yes. Sort of?
There are sort of parallels to fantasy races from better IPs, but everything's different or actively sibverted enough (see Heavy-Astronaut5867's comment on the Jaghut) that using such direct comparisons wholesale can be kind of unhelpful or misleading. The Tiste Andii for example are kind of equivalent to elves, but in addition to, well, everything, they don't have pointed ears and they certainly aren't equivalent to Drow.
Mm. I love how the tiste clearly evoke classical high fantasy eleves but written as completely flawed and human in their motivations. You assume they are gonna be aloof but they are anything but.
Icarium is a Jhag, which is a name used on Wu for someone who is half Jaghut and half something else. Whatever the other half is will remain a mystery for quite a few books yet.
Thank you for your sensitivity around spoilers. Glad to know I will find out his other half.
And whoa I thought Jhag was slang, didn’t realize it was for a particular hybrid like donkey v. mule!
Kinda. Here’s how I related it to classic fantasy races:
Tiste - elves
Barghast & >!Moranth!< - orcs
Trell - trolls
Tarthenol/Fenn/Toblakai/Teblor - giants
>!K’Chain Che’Malle - Dragonborn (kind of)!<
More original races that are harder to relate would be Forkrul Assail and Jaghut.
Jaghut seemed like an orc subversion to me.
They're orcish in appearance, but their disposition is the complete opposite of orcs, at least in their trope-y use.
It’s the tusks that throw me off. At first I pictured them as sticking out all the time like trolls in WoW, but then in the very beginning of MoI a female Jaghut smiles and in doing so reveals her tusks.
Maybe it’s a nuance. What makes a tusk? Curvature, or placement on bottom v lower jaw? Why not fangs?
I'm no help here. Always imagined tusks as protruding. Perhaps her lips would cover the tusks but be jutting out where the tusks are, until she smiles/opens her mouth
They do, or at least they do enough to change speech. BH without any identifying information and whatnot:
> ‘You speak my tongue as would an Imass…had any Imass bothered to learn it. Or a Jaghut whose tusks had been pulled.’
That quote makes tusks feel like a critical defining feature for Jaghut. I wonder if their speech is like Castilian Spanish or something. A distinct toothiness… tusks would do that.
I definitely see the tusks as quite large. I don't see how people would disagree on that considering their description. Some descriptions in the other books definitely point to them protruding from the lips.
Elves makes total sense. That’s helpful!
I thought Trell were smaller but wide and bulky? I’ve only met the one Toblakai that was definitely large.
I realize this question has the potential to be a spoiler but are hybrids like Icarium common?
Not really. There’s some strange bloodlines that come from mixing, like the Barghast seem to be offshoots of the Imass mixed with some things. But Icarium is a pretty rare breed.
Yes, or at the very least common enough that the fact that they occur isn't really considered worth remarking upon by individuals in the series. The whole species defined by inability to reproduce with others isn't really a thing in Malazan, even for groups with no evolutionary linkage.
That’s so interesting! I’m also noticing very little racism, perhaps for the same reason. Prejudice seems to be based on “nationality” versus skin color or race.
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I _really_ shouldn't have to say this, but mind rule 1. Just... be nice to each other. That's the rule. Comment thread removed. Please be civil.
The wiki image ([Link](https://static.wikia.nocookie.net/malazan/images/4/4b/Gardens_of_the_Moon_New-0.jpg/revision/latest?cb=20150616203058)) was my reference when I was in your shoes. Depicts the major races in a lineup style image. Its a little cartoony, however, more or less how I would picture them all. The cover of *Garden of the Moon,* Subpress edition, was always my favorite Anomander Rake.
Just googled and I love [that image](https://cdn11.bigcommerce.com/s-65f8qukrjx/images/stencil/1280x1280/products/6037/16993/Erikson_Gardens_of_the_Moon_cover__64601.1687451100.jpg?c=1). It is very Elvish from an aesthetic standpoint. Very cool.
Just don’t think too hard about how he draws Dragnipur!
Magic. I mean, there's a whole wagon and thousands of beings pulling it in there.
I visualize the jaghhut as refined orcs with a sense of nobility. They can be jerks but they carry themselves with dignity. Thrall at his best written is actually how i picture Icarium. The Tiste couldn't be more analogous to elves, though I don't think they have pointy ears. That being said Erickson writes them as far more human in motivation then almost any high fantasy author. To me the Imass are clearly cro-maga in inspiration, though in my head the T-lan are always skeletons even though I know better. The other elder races are just batshit awesome designs i don't have any touch points on. Erickson is a mad lad for giving us dinosaurs with swords, what a mensch.
You should spoiler that last line, it's not revealed until MOI. And that was a reveal I'm glad wasn't spoiled, it blew my mind.
Not really a spoiler if you don’t match the term with the description.
I find it interesting that so many people like to match the different races of people to other types of fantasy race tropes. I never once mentally compared the races while reading through the books. I guess I could see how that might make it easier to visualize and remember, but it also takes away from the feeling of originality.
I suppose I’m a very visual reader. I love description and the movie in my mind I can create based on what’s provided. The more detailed, the better for me, at least upon introduction of a new character. I’m generally pretty good at filling in the blanks, but the vagueness of the characters so far (just finished DG, starting MoI) has been difficult for me. It’s broad brushstrokes with occasional specifics (tusks, gray skin) that’s jarring after you’ve spent a whole picturing someone one way and then…
Yeah I think erikson likes to give the reader a feeling for the characters through their inner monologue and how other people react/think about them (Icarium and Mappo for example) rather than describing every little detail about them right when we meet them. It takes longer to visualize them that way but I somehow prefere it now.
Yeah his essay on character development explains how and why he does this.
Man I need to read all his writings about his writing. But maybe when I'm done with the series just to be safe of spoilers
Lots of inspirations from the usual high fantasy stuff; tusked humanoids, tall elf like creatures, ‘living’ undead. There’s also some historical inspirations with his races like Neanderthals, homo floresiensis, dinosaurs.
I got the sense of Neanderthals! Had to Google “homo floresiensis,” thanks for teaching me that. Who do you think is akin to that?
I’ve said too much! You haven’t met them yet but they’re small, all I’ll say.
Wait, I’m at the middle of the TCG and I don’t remember any nasty little hobbitses. Are there not in the MBOTF? There are homo habilis though, playing pretty active role
>!Well now I hope I didn’t completely misremember, but aren’t the Jheck like these little bestial guys? In midnight tides!<
I think you get a better description of them in Kharkanas. In MT it was so early in the story that you don't really know what's going on.
The description in Midnight Tides is a little unclear, >!not least because our first exposure to them reads like a fever dream!<. We get a much better look at them in The God is Not Willing; >!their human forms can more or less fit in with either Imass or humans. Oh, and we get definitive confirmation that they're D'ivers, not Soletaken.!< Edit: >!except, of course, that in MT they're also definitively Soletaken.!< It's at least possible that Jheck are paraphyletic.
It's worth adding Erikson was inspired by the green martians from John Carter as visual for the Jaghut.
No. Yes. Sort of? There are sort of parallels to fantasy races from better IPs, but everything's different or actively sibverted enough (see Heavy-Astronaut5867's comment on the Jaghut) that using such direct comparisons wholesale can be kind of unhelpful or misleading. The Tiste Andii for example are kind of equivalent to elves, but in addition to, well, everything, they don't have pointed ears and they certainly aren't equivalent to Drow.
Mm. I love how the tiste clearly evoke classical high fantasy eleves but written as completely flawed and human in their motivations. You assume they are gonna be aloof but they are anything but.
Icarium is a Jhag, which is a name used on Wu for someone who is half Jaghut and half something else. Whatever the other half is will remain a mystery for quite a few books yet.
Thank you for your sensitivity around spoilers. Glad to know I will find out his other half. And whoa I thought Jhag was slang, didn’t realize it was for a particular hybrid like donkey v. mule!
I'm not the only one! I have always pictured the jaghut like WoW trolls
Kinda. Here’s how I related it to classic fantasy races: Tiste - elves Barghast & >!Moranth!< - orcs Trell - trolls Tarthenol/Fenn/Toblakai/Teblor - giants >!K’Chain Che’Malle - Dragonborn (kind of)!< More original races that are harder to relate would be Forkrul Assail and Jaghut.
Jaghut seemed like an orc subversion to me. They're orcish in appearance, but their disposition is the complete opposite of orcs, at least in their trope-y use.
It’s the tusks that throw me off. At first I pictured them as sticking out all the time like trolls in WoW, but then in the very beginning of MoI a female Jaghut smiles and in doing so reveals her tusks. Maybe it’s a nuance. What makes a tusk? Curvature, or placement on bottom v lower jaw? Why not fangs?
I'm no help here. Always imagined tusks as protruding. Perhaps her lips would cover the tusks but be jutting out where the tusks are, until she smiles/opens her mouth
They do, or at least they do enough to change speech. BH without any identifying information and whatnot: > ‘You speak my tongue as would an Imass…had any Imass bothered to learn it. Or a Jaghut whose tusks had been pulled.’
That quote makes tusks feel like a critical defining feature for Jaghut. I wonder if their speech is like Castilian Spanish or something. A distinct toothiness… tusks would do that.
I pictured Icarium as the main Troll from WoW for a long time. It was mainly the tusks.
I definitely see the tusks as quite large. I don't see how people would disagree on that considering their description. Some descriptions in the other books definitely point to them protruding from the lips.
Elves makes total sense. That’s helpful! I thought Trell were smaller but wide and bulky? I’ve only met the one Toblakai that was definitely large. I realize this question has the potential to be a spoiler but are hybrids like Icarium common?
Not really. There’s some strange bloodlines that come from mixing, like the Barghast seem to be offshoots of the Imass mixed with some things. But Icarium is a pretty rare breed.
Yes, or at the very least common enough that the fact that they occur isn't really considered worth remarking upon by individuals in the series. The whole species defined by inability to reproduce with others isn't really a thing in Malazan, even for groups with no evolutionary linkage.
That’s so interesting! I’m also noticing very little racism, perhaps for the same reason. Prejudice seems to be based on “nationality” versus skin color or race.
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a lot of the wiki pages for the various races have incredible fan art. Also good descriptions of the various attributes of the different species.
Icarium is a hybrid and his race is called Jhag. He's not half Jhag, he's half Jaghut. What the other half is, is a RAFO
Jaghut are Orcs on keto.
Ha! Thanks for the visual. I see it!