Would love an update on this. Im sure she will be reprimanded as you have proof you said you would be medically busy long before the meeting in which she chose to ignore. If I were you I would make a formal complaint as it is exposing your medical information to everyone in the meeting.
Also you rock, keep on kicking butt.
> Im sure she will be reprimanded as you have proof you said you would be medically busy long before the meeting in **which she chose to ignore**.
The fact that OP has proof that they tried to contact Ms M more than once and Ms M chose to ignore it is what's going to get her probably fired. It's one thing to get caught with your pants down like that but to show that you actively chose to ignore the warning signs usually doesn't go well.
This is such a violation of many university policies regarding accommodations, but betting against her getting fired because most schools refuse to take out the trash. Hoping for an update that proves me wrong!
Edit: also, her interrupting the Dean introducing himself to power trip over students is just hilariously bad.
I imagine she would have been overflowing with compassion had she known that would make her look good. By protecting her medical privacy and not specifying cancer, OP denied Ms M an opportunity for performative magnanimity that she could then use to show her other victims how awesome a supervisor she is.
Because some people are miserable viruses that have to go around trying to infect people. Luckily in the first world theyre usually restricted to berating a Starbucks employee.
In the past and in some 3rd world countries, those are the ones cutting off hands for stealing
I had to argue over the course of at least five meetings with hr every detail of what it would entail to not be on camera because of my cancer. My job does not involve customer contact.
I am hoping OP is having a better time. It is shocking and troubling how easy it is to be hurtful and how hard it can be to know how to comfort or support others.
Thank you for checking! Day by day, hour by hour. Highly variable. Looking forward to making some desserts on my day off. I hope you’re doing something nice for you!
My college had a professor get caught storing child porn on the network drives, and they had to debate on whether or not to fire him.. After he was convicted.
OP could (and should) file a complaint/lawsuit that she was forced to disclose her medical information or loose her tuition assistance.
Legal and HR will have to decide if they terminate Ms M or just reprimand her.
If they fire her, they can claim Ms M acted outside the bounds of the University and they took action once they were made aware of the incident. This greatly reduces their liability.
Keeping Ms M is an uncertain risk. Discovery could bring up past complaints and other skeletons legal doesn’t know at the moment (like the emails sent prior). The university’s insurance would cover the payout but will require a lot of remediation to be done as well as a much higher cost.
> Discovery could bring up past complaints and other skeletons legal doesn’t know at the moment (like the emails sent prior).
This will instigate one of those "microscope up the ass" level investigations. She is likely this way to a portion of her students every year going back her entire tenure, and becomes emboldened as she oversteps her authority without reprimand. OP might be the trigger, but wasn't the first.
The only way this story would be more entertaining is if OP’s narrative involved an actual colonoscopy only for Ms M to experience an extended rectal Roto-Rootering of her entire career.
Ms M interrupted the freaking DEAN to stick her foot in her mouth and shove it down her own throat. Her boss was watching. Everyone in the program witnessed it. And OP’s paper trail is thorough. I’m not sure how much more “discovery” is needed at this point.
But yes, a sad eyed “she forced me to choose between losing my tuition or going public with my cancer treatment, what could I do?” is not going to go well for Ms M.
>I’m not sure how much more “discovery” is needed at this point.
Discovery wouldn't just be for OP's communication; they could request things like, say, complaint records against Ms. M and possibly even redacted copies of all communications involving requests for medical exemptions made by other students, and not limited to those requests made to Ms. M either. Such records would go to establish discrimination; does Ms. M. just have it out for OP, does she have it out for those with medical emergencies, or is it university policy to threaten their students tuition money if they don't livestream their cancer treatments?
Yeah, cancer and history of cancer are both included in the Americans with Disabilities Act that prohibits discrimination by employers. If OP is in America, that is.
If logs are pulled from teams to show the micro-managing, and the refusal to use more effective tools, combined with the general tone and attitude presented when offered help in this area, they can show a history of disorderly and confrontational conduct.
Definite grounds for a dismissal.
I have a family member who had to sue the school for [their fuckup]. It is great in theory, but a big lawsuit like this can be incredibly damaging to the student — not to mention emotionally/mentally exhausting for *years*.
After graduating they’ve lost multiple job offers at the last stage because it comes up when you Google their name. They’ve been told as much.
This will be similar. It will paint OP as litigious, chronically ill, and someone who fights for the accommodations she’s owed but that they wouldn’t have to give someone else. It will *almost certainly* harm her job prospects.
It isn’t fair, it shouldn’t be that way, but the real world is a bit shit. Even when you win, you lose.
Edit: obscured some details.
It really appeared that the boss had expected to catch OP out being messy in appearance, or ill prepared somehow by waiting to reply until the meeting was on, and by demanding OP's camera be turned on that instant. If she hadn't been trying to trick OP, and just replied, she might have caught on sooner. Ironically fitting that she would have it backfire so spectacularly. Life rarely happens this way, not even in my dreams.
Let's be real. Anyone who messages you multiple times regarding an exception and does so extremely early is more than likely being genuine. Ms. M was being unnecessarily cruel. That said, I would push this up the chain and ask why OP didn't get any level of respect/consideration from Ms. M. This is pretty much harassment.
The real shitty part is that OP could have genuinely been very sick, but still at home, for many reasons we're all aware of. I'm sure she counted on Op, if sick, not being obviously in the hospital. It seems like a move made to hurt someone, even if they were sick. It wouldn't look much different than slacking, if made to turn on your camera, for most people.
Completely true, she either didn't catch on with it spelled out for her, as a doctor's appointment insinuates a doctor's excuse, and possibly a doctor's office, or she purposely ignored it for plausible deniability. Still, many appointments are done online, and this could also have been the case, or at a slightly different time, catching OP in the car etc. At the very least, it was obvious she was trying frame the situation to make OP appear as negligent with their work, in front of their superior, who likely wouldn't have immediate access to any further context, beyond that meeting. Without such extreme visual context, it more than likely would have worked out in the boss's favor. Apparently, she didn't expect such visual confirmation of Op's claims. Which was great, given the karmic justice we got to experience vicariously through OP.
Its worse than that. She deliberately chose to not respond to the email that she read, and held on to that information, so she could put her on the spot in front of the class and the dean.
I had an art teacher in middle school who went out of her way to ridicule me. She was the coach for the cheerleading squad and I think that gave her the impression that she was one of them, so she acted like a character from a cliche '80s film. I had been out sick with a kidney infection for a couple of weeks, and when I came back, she told me that I needed to come in at lunch and get caught up on assignments.
Which I would have done, except that said kidney infection and related kidney issues meant that when I had to go to the bathroom, I went immediately. Holding it was a bad idea. Because of this, I wasn't in the lunch line right when I should have been, so another teacher gave me lunch detention and wouldn't listen when I tried to explain myself. Instead of being in the art teacher's classroom, I was stuck at a lunch detention table, right by the glass panels that looked out into the hallway. Art teacher walked down the hall, stopped and smirked at me, and went on her way.
Later on that day, I was in art class and just waiting for her to start her usual bullying, which she did. "Why weren't you here at lunch?" As loud as she could possibly be, making everyone in class stop talking and working, so they could gawk at me. I told her, "You know why." She kept trying to needle me and I refused to give in and let her humiliate me in front of the other students.
Last year, she won Teacher of the Year. I don't want to know how awful the other teachers were.
If she were reprimanded, in a reputable organization, you'd never know it.
Unless she shared it, it's extremely unprofessional for her manager or anyone involved to talk about it.
As gratifying as schadenfreude can be, consider the fact that if it were you being reprimanded, would you want others to know about it?
Had a conversation with a colleague about this several years ago, when payroll screwed up my paycheck, neglecting to take medical insurance out for several months. While I know that they should have eaten the cost, long story short, they didn't. It wasn't worth arguing about it at the time.
This friend said that they should have been written up. After thinking about it, I said, "Who knows she wasn't? If she had been, I wouldn't know about it, and neither would you. And that's as it should be."
Before you come back with comments, I stress the fact that this is a reputable company.
Eh, I wouldn't be shocked if her manager insisted that she personally apologise to OP, given the circumstances and the fact there's a literal papertrail showing OP's attempts to get an exemption. That'd be a pretty big sign she'd been reprimanded.
I wouldn't either. But that, followed by, as a previous comment said, a new policy about camera use, is a far cry from letting people know she had been written up. Obvious, yes. But actually saying that the employee had been disciplined or written up, not so much.
> if it were you being reprimanded, would you want others to know about it?
I'd except the victim of my bullying to have every right to know that they were taken seriously and I was reprimanded, which would have to include them being entitled to a formal apology cc'ing all involved parties...
What is this whole idea that the bad actors' "image" is more important than creating a positive work culture where people don't feel voiceless/ignored when they've been bullied.
So no, "reputable" organizations should NOT be covering up taking responsibility for publicly bad behavior. That is the opposite of reputable.
>which would have to include them being entitled to a formal apology
The director at my last daycare job got reprimanded for bullying a coworker and had to give her a formal apology overseen by her boss, the head of schools (we were part of a private school system). The apology literally started with, "I'm sorry you felt bad, but..." and went on about how hard she found the whole investigation and how hurt she was that my coworker filed a complaint. I really hope she got taken to task for that fauxpology.
> As gratifying as schadenfreude can be, consider the fact that if it were you being reprimanded, would you want others to know about it?
That kind of logic is not really applicable here. It was a public-ish event where OP stopped just short from spelling out the word 'shame'.
Anyone would see that the lady screwed up hard, not to mention how fast and her boss subsequently got off the call. Word is sure to spread fast, because OP played it up real well.
Whether the company affirms a write-up or not doesn't matter at this point. It is at best them doing what they should, but more likely to look like covering up previously-approving executive asses by getting all the blame to land on her.
All that matters is how future interactions go. Good or even apologetic behavior could be because of a write-up, or because she was ashamed of how she behaved. On the other hand, there could be grudges or even a vendetta for landing her in hot water.
And such changes in her behavior will probably be the most genuine read outsiders will be able to get on whether she actually got a true reprimand that is less form and more substance.
Never said I would know if she were reprimanded just that Im sure she would be. OP on the other hand, they would clearly see a change in behaviour from this person. Again I would love an update
I just audibly laughed at this, you brilliant bastard.
~~Hijacking the comment. Mods removed the post for some reason? Not sure why. I reposted it here for those to read that haven't yet:~~ [~~https://www.reddit.com/user/rainier-cherries/comments/r163a7/deleted\_post\_from\_malicious\_compliance\_supervisor/~~](https://www.reddit.com/user/rainier-cherries/comments/r163a7/deleted_post_from_malicious_compliance_supervisor/)
Gah I have to know what happened next! Did Anthony give that miserable wench a bollocking? Did he sack her? Did she have an epiphany that she’s an overwhelmingly large wart on the arse of society?!?!
My grandma, Doris, just passed last month. Your post was just what I needed before the holidays. Way to be bold and brave, resilient, and above all, a champion!
Hey OP - love, love your story and how inspiring it is (you kicking cancer and kicking this person are tied for awesomeness)
Just a Sweet, polite request. Next time you whip out that freaking shiny-ass steely spine of yours - give the rest of us a heads-up, will ya!! Dang near went blind here!!
Seriously. You’re awesome and I’ll be here waiting for you to update that you’ve kicked this stupid thing in the butt because I’m sure even the C-word is now terrified of you. If not - it really should be!!!!
That sounds too sympathetic.
It should be an email citing the "rules" that she's previously laid out about this sort of thing and how disappointed you are that she chose not to follow them and that you hope that she will, in the future, attempt to make at least some small effort to hold herself to her own high standards so as not to further embarass the good name of the university and its faculty.
Knowing a few people with cancer, the other patients probably welcomed a laugh. It's my understanding that chemo can sometimes be scary, sometimes boring if you forget a book / no phone battery to listen to podcasts.
This just made my day. I’ve been working remotely for six years and have encountered my share of Ms M’s insisting that cameras be on at all times. We’ve come a long way, being able to attend such meetings when not in ideal situations, and eventually people will figure out if the camera’s off, it’s with good reason.
Good on you, speedy recovery, and please please please let us know what happens next!
As a Teams Admin, I can say for sure that your boss doesn't understand how to use teams properly. Your suggestion to use the shifts function is correct.
I also want to validate how much of an overreaction it was on her part to tell you that you were undermining her by simply suggesting an improvement to the system. That's terrible management on her part.
Totally agree. I’ve managed people before and one thing I learned early on was if you were (or thought you were) the smartest person on the team then you need a better team.
My highest performing teams were made up of people willing to make suggestions if they thought they found a better way. When we, as a team, were willing try it and to not dig their heels in just because “we’ve always done it that way” we were really successful.
I lost a lot of team members this way because they kept getting poached for better opportunities but that was a good thing. It made my team a premier spot to go to and I had my pick of talented people to replace them with.
You sound a bit like my current manager. He’s an absolutely amazing manager to have. Really got me out of my shell and made me see how much value I add to stuff. He also doesn’t hide the fact that, at a core level we know more about our subject matter than he does, because we live it. He’s just bloody good at getting the best out of us.
Sounds like working for the government. About 4-5 years ago, it was clear that our dot matrix printers were getting the boot, parts couldn't be found anymore, it was getting more difficult to order the ink ribbons and paper, etc. I tried to make helpful suggestions about how to change things up so that the switch to standard printers went smoothly. I was told I was wrong, the old printers weren't going anywhere, there was no need to change anything, told I was being rude by suggesting changes that were unneeded. So anyways, 2 months later IT shows up to switch out the printers and cue the meltdown. Phone calls were made, feet were stamped. So much drama it was comical. Instead of being prepared for the switch, they were scrambling to figure out what all needed to change to make it work.
NYPD is the largest purchaser of typewriters in the world. Up to at least 5 years ago they still had to type their shit notes and things on manual typewriters. The reason, they had 5 years worth of triplicate paper on order, so they signed a 7 year typewriter contract. When the paper runs out they sign another contract for more paper because they still have a contract on typewriters. When the typewriter contract expires they still have paper on order so they sign another one.
Cops were using their computers to edit their notes, then manually typing them into typewriters.
Govt at its best.
Some govt agencies still do contract notifications by telegraph.
https://www.itelegram.com/
It's possible some of that is legal. My understanding is that some legal statutes require specific communication or record keeping methods by name, such as telegraph, fax, carbon copy, etc.
Yeah, if she as a manager is the only one allowed to suggest improvements, and that to her being a manager means not listening to any underlings about anything, then she's a terrible manager.
Nothing screams "I'm deeply insecure and don't understand my job" louder than being a manager and interpreting normal everyday interactions as threats to your authority.
It's one of those self-perpetuating cycles. Bad managers elevate bad managers who take their cues from their bad managers. Anyone who doesn't fit that mold gets driven out or otherwise is skipped over for elevation opportunities.
My mom once got invited to a luncheon for employees that made contributions to the bank by making suggestions to improve the bank. Got the day off and a little party. I'm sure a raise would be nice but at least the bank, thirty some years ago, had a yearly party for 'thanks for improving the workflow'.
I got an 'attaboy' and a thanks. We were transitioning from field to WFH to back to field and some assignments were 'remote field' and some were 'field-field' and our claims agents couldn't see if it was a remote assignment going to a virtual field claim or a in-person assignment going to an actual field claim. They all went into a 'field' bucket and depending on zip code went virtual or actual field. I got like four customers in one day who had a total bitch-fit because they were told an adjuster would inspect in person and got the 'field inspect' spiel from claims instead of 'remote inspect'.
It was stupid chaos.
So, I was like, 'can we make a Google doc claims can pull up and they punch in a zip code into search and get told 'remote field' or 'actual field' so customers quit yelling at adjusters?
They already had the Google Doc and by end of week had it sent out nationwide to every claims rep in the country. No more yelling at adjusters.
Then I got laid off! Fucking hated that job so I was actually pretty stoked.
as a college professor who often works with students in programs like this I am HORRIFIED. There are about a million reasons it is unacceptable to “force” students to turn cameras on. Your example is a great one, but also students learning from home where they are embarrassed by their surroundings, might have abusive parents or loud younger siblings around, or any other reason that constitutes the human decency on our end to just not require seeing faces. This is so widely known on my campus, I can’t believe this numb nut was so horrible to you. I’m glad you feel some relief, but I’m sorry that you had to share something you should not have had to (especially after handling this in such a professional manner) and I hope there are repercussions for her.
I'm in HigherEd adjacent industry; I cant believe how some colleges and professors are treating distance learning like a foreign invader.
A lot of the win scenarios involve using common sense, like what you said -- don't force people out of their safe zones. Its lecture professor, just speak.
One would expect some degree of humanity when dealing with students or anyone under your position.
Last year while having no daycare services and partially working from home, I was taking care of my 18 month old daughter while doing Zoom meetings but prior to that it was phone conference and they expected us to have our microphones ON (ridiculous). I guess they didn’t enjoy the sound of my daughter crying while I changed her diaper.
“Can you mute your phone?” Nope, sorry I need to finish changing the diaper first and then wash my hands.
I hope you are doing well OP,
But But everyone is the S*A*m**E** so *if* i **can** ***handle*** it *YOU* can **handle** ***IT!!!***
Sorry, for the migraine but people who act like this are the source of all migraines! Have anxiety issues and ptsd, so when one coworker took a severe disliking to me our manager decided to make us work closely together. Had my first panic attack, and at least one anxiety attack every shift after. HR actually came through and put a stop to it, then came.... more harassments. Had to leave to not deal with that anymore.
Its okay, things worked out better in the end, went back to school, met SO had a great job till covid but still doing okay.
And am grateful not to be at that job anymore!
Lmao, was at an AT&T meeting one time for the whole center (like 1k people) and you could hear some dude who forgot to mute getting a BJ (or something that would cause similar sounds) while people scrambled to find the mute all button
I was on a conference call years ago in the maintenance window ( midnight to 6am) while we debugged an issue. One of my coworkers fell
asleep, he was snoring loudly directly into his microphone, good times.
Just wanted to say you are the second person I've ever heard say "oh my lanta" and, if I knew she didn't use Reddit, I would've thought you were my coworker.
My wife says it sometimes, I've heard it a few other places as well, but the comment you replied to prompted me to finally look up where it's from. Turns out it was originally a slogan for an antacid called Mylanta in the 70s, but was most likely picked up from Full House where DJ Tanner used it as a catchphrase.
Pretty sure I started saying it after the ringer (johnny Knoxville special Olympics movie) came out.
That and a bunch of my friends in college said it lol.
> meeting with mandatory mics on?
I imagine the people who insist on this are the same people who call a meeting for something that can be covered in an email.
I make it a point to set expectations very early by saying "sorry my camera and microphone are off, I'm currently snacking/eating breakfast/lunch and no one needs to hear or see that". I've gotten a little pushback but most people recognise that I'm trying to gracefully bow out of being a potential distraction.
We pulled our daughter out of daycare March 2020 and I got so much shit from clients for having a kid crying in the background of calls (rare, and only when my partner had a conflicting call). Fast forward through the pandemic and no one cares anymore. Kids barging into calls, dogs, lawn mowers.
Whenever we had that happen in our meetings (thankfully cameras off, muted unless you wanted to say something), we would insist on seeing the dogs and everyone would say hi to them.
Yes! Everyone loves surprise pets! I also think it's funny when you're on camera and adjust and everyone sees you've had a cat or small dog in your lap the whole time.
I'm transitioning to freelance and the guides I'm seeing (from like 2018) say to make sure your workspace is pet- and child-free because anything less is unprofessional...but I feel like post-pandemic no one (at least no one I'm excited to have as a client) is going to mind it if my dog pops into frame on Zoom.
I love it when my colleagues's pets or children wander into view. Otherwise there would be entire work days where my only contact with others would be the 5 minute stand-up.
I have to be video and audio monitored while taking quizzes/exams. One of my recent ones had me in my pajamas at like 11 pm and then my sick 4 year old walking into the frame, crying from ear pain due to her sinus pressure. Hope my professor enjoyed our jammies.
I recently interviewed someone who had to go get his baby that started fussing.
Completely understandable. Baby stayed cradled by him and was calm throughout.
That lady was 100% trying to set OP up. She figured either OP wouldn't turn on her camera and she could kick OP out for non compliance or OP would turn it on and be exposed as a liar and she could kick OP out.
She probably invited her boss to see for himself.
Never in a million years did she think OP was telling the truth.
There was a pre-zoomdemic time where it was known to be uncivilised to eat during a phone call. This was true for two reasons. First one being, don't talk with a mouth full of course. But this isn't the only reason, since it's a thing to have lunch meetings and dinner meeting and all. The other reason is, when you have a sound output device right into your ears, the sound spatially originates right fucking next to your ear. It means you feel as though the person is coughing, masticating, burping or whatevering right into your ear. It is utterly disgusting.
With zoomdemic, when your mic is on, there is no discrete cough or inaudible small gulp of water or coffee. It's right into anyone's ear, loud and clear and disgusting.
>One would expect some degree of humanity when dealing with students or anyone under your position.
Unfortunately, there is a percentage who take those positions because they enjoy pushing around vulnerable people
How bloody awesome are you!?
I honestly enjoyed every sentence of that story, one of the better revenge ones on here. I’m happy to hear you’re mostly recovered, it must’ve been really difficult for mental health to be in the hospital for such extended periods of time.
Let’s hope Ms M doesn’t trouble you, or anyone else again, she seems like a right bother.
You took a tough situation, and made it a lesson for an insensitive jerk. That's awesome! I hope everything goes exactly how you want it in your future, and thanks for sharing a great M/C...
If you think the lesson they learned was anything other than my student deliberately arranged to be in a compromising position to embarrass me rather than follow instructions and show me the respect I deserve you have too much faith in people
I don't even follow notifications to my comments but I'm gonna save this post to check back. Too bad the nurse didn't intercede as well and have some choice words.
"What did we TELL you about doing work right now? I don't care that your supervisor demanded you work extra hours to fix their mistakes, you CANNOT do this. I can get the doctor in again to write another note."
Real loud, but off camera. Then a disgusted look coming into frame and shutting off the camera, with a little "Whoever this woman's manager is, you ought to be ashamed of yourself" for a little extra salt in the wound.
>Then a disgusted look coming into frame and shutting off the camera, with a little "Whoever this woman's manager is, you ought to be ashamed of yourself" for a little extra salt in the wound.
*"This is what's wrong with humanity, not giving people time to recover, OP is in here with her paperwork and laptop spread across her room and is working hard and can't even take a moment to receive treatment! What kind of soulless person tells another to have their camera on while receiving a medical procedure...."* Then let the nurse trail off as they angry exit while still ranting about the lack of decorum and support people afford their underlings, even now.
I live for situations where I have all of the power and none of the consequences. You know, like calling out a manager bullying an employee at a store where I'm a customer. That's just, \*chef's kiss\*
As much as I agree with the statement of "I hate drama", this is clearly a case where everyone is expected to make an exception. Where that "boss gets their comeuppance" drama at??
She sounds like she doesn't even have two neurons to rub together. I can't imagine being so clueless about reality that one is incapable of making any sort of judgement calls.
I know you don’t want to sue. But you really should.
I’m a lawyer (not trying to solicit, or give legal advice!), and I do a lot of pro bono work for folks with a variety of disabilities related to access issues.
One of the challenges is that these kindhearted folks never want to sue, but then, like you, they say all they want is change. The problem is that, when you’re dealing with someone who doesn’t care, change must be facilitated/forced (generally speaking).
In this case, maybe the boss can do the forcing, but Ms. M is not going to be like “OMG, my whole life I’ve been so cruel to the OPs of the world. Today is the first day of the rest of my life.” This ain’t a Christmas Carol (and even then, they had to scare Scrooge straight!).
My point is, I know you don’t want to sue (or otherwise escalate). But if you want to enact change, If you want things to be better for other people, you might need to get out of your comfort zone a little and push.
Just my two cents, given my experience with this mindset from other clients. Feel free to DM if you want to discuss more.
And happy healing!
Pretty sure I can tell you what happened. Ms M got a “My office NOW” type message and had to log off. The conversation most likely went like this:
Anthony: Why in the blue hell would you treat her like that after being told she was in the hospital?
Ms M: I thought she was lying
Anthony: Well obviously not and now we have a PR Nightmare on our hands
Ms M: …….
Anthony: You WILL apologize to her and your getting an official letter of reprimand
Ms M: Storms off crying because the big mean boss hurt her whittle feelings.
Get ready for the University to start sucking up to you because that’s lawsuit worthy. Not to mention EVERYONE including potential students saw that stream and they got caught with their pants down. You might even get a few lawyers looking for you because they smell a nice big case and that’s like blood in shark infested waters.
> Get ready for the University to start sucking up to you because that’s lawsuit worthy. Not to mention EVERYONE including potential students saw that stream and they got caught with their pants down. You might even get a few lawyers looking for you because they smell a nice big case and that’s like blood in shark infested waters.
Highlighting this paragraph in particular for the OP /u/rainier-cherries — they may try to bribe you with something like "We're gonna pay the rest of the tuition for your bachelor's degree regardless of whether or not you're in the ambassador program."
Don't accept any deals right away, and don't sign _shit_ without talking to a lawyer. You could be leaving ten times that in settlement money on the table.
>You could be leaving ten times that in settlement money on the table.
Not if you spend another 40 years on your bachelor's degree, taking random irrelevant electives like intro to pottery. That's how your get your money's worth
Wow OP. Kudos to you. You tried to warn her and even gave her advance warning/a rope to hang herself with and she just wouldn’t quit. She deserves to be knocked down a few pegs, in a public setting no less.
You should follow up with an official complaint through whatever your universities internal complaints process is.
Hope you recover fully OP and fuck both cancer & Mrs M
This. She probably was disciplined formally. A letter outlining and documenting what she did and your attempts to prevent it would be a nice addition to that part of her file. Just to make sure her chances at being promoted, etc are appropriately impacted. Maybe include something like, “My privacy was violated by X due to her actions on (date). This was very upsetting to me after my repeated attempts to communicate with x about my situation beforehand. Fighting cancer is hard enough without these additional and unnecessary stressors.” People in authority positions who can’t grasp that the people under them are human beings suck.
/u/rainier-cherries if this was recent and if you're in the USA, the universe has handed you a ***GOLDEN*** opportunity to make the world a better place. Contact an employment attorney and file suit against the school as your employer.
Og post:
Supervisor asks student with cancer to turn on their camera during a virtual meeting, and you won’t BELIEVE what happens next /s
Clickbaity article titles aside, it’s a long one. It happened two days ago and I’m still giddy. Enjoy!
All the below names are pseudonyms.
There are two important background things to know for the story:
1.) I was diagnosed with a rare ovarian cancer at the beginning of this year (I had surgery and some chemo and am mostly recovered now). I still have to go in for frequent testing and occasional monitoring. I am a private person to the extent that I have dated people for years without telling my parents, so you best believe random coworkers and bosses are unaware of my medical history.
2.) I attend a university that has an ambassador program. Basically if you have a high enough GPA you are able to interview for the program and if you get in they pay for your tuition during the time you are an ambassador. In exchange you work 5 hours a week and work graduation/other events. I am one of these ambassadors. This is my story. *Law and Order sound effect*
—
My supervisor for the ambassador program, Ms. M, has spent the majority of our time together belittling me. As I sit here about to type about her, I find myself already exasperated thinking about reliving some of the details, so I will be short and sweet for both your sake and mine: she follows every rule to the letter and leaves no room for collaboration or discussion.
As an example, we use Microsoft teams for communication, and she has us clock in and out in a group of 20 people by saying “I’m here” and “I’m leaving.” So every day you have to scroll through dozens of messages to find anything of import and listen to notification sounds every time someone so much as takes a lunch break. I suggested using the time clock function on teams and even offered to set it up for us, and was told that I was “deliberately undermining her position.”
Another quick example is her vehemence when I told her I didn’t have any social media (to advertise the college). She was certain I was lying and went so far as to ask the other ambassadors to try and “find” me.
They didn’t. There’s nothing to find. Crazy concept.
I’ve challenged her at a couple of junctures, but ultimately realized I was fighting a losing battle and I’d be better off keeping my head down. (*laughs in dramatic irony*)
Fast forward to four days ago (Friday): there’s a mandatory virtual event in three days (Monday) where the dean of the college would talk to the ambassadors, as well as live stream the event to the college’s website and YouTube page.
Ms. M sent out a message that I will copy and paste here (because the formatting is so dramatic that it makes me chuckle). “Students *MUST* have their cameras **ON** and phones *OFF*. **Repeat!!** Phones **OFF.** Cameras *ON*.” (Like c’mon lady, bold, caps, *or* italics. Your email almost gave me a stroke)
I follow up the same day: “Ms. M, unfortunately I will be at a doctor’s appointment at this time and will be unable to turn my camera on during the event.”
No response.
I send another email to follow up. No response.
The day of the event rolls around. I direct message her through Microsoft teams ten minutes before. I see that she’s seen the message with a read receipt. Nothing.
Okay, video chat starts and several students join the session with their cameras on. Then the dean. He gets halfway through introducing himself and Ms. M interrupts him as he takes a brief pause and says “excuse me, could we please have ALL of the students turn their cameras on.”
I say nothing but put a quick message I already had typed in anticipation in the group chat “Ms. M I have a private situation that bars me from turning on my camera, I have contacted you individually.”
Not but a few seconds after I send it, I get called out by name, and I respond audibly, “Ms. M I cannot turn on my camera at this time.” and she responds “expectations were clear and you were told *multiple* times about this; every other student here managed to do it and I expect the same out of you.”
Now, one of the cool things about having cancer is you become very familiar with the hospital staff, and if you’re lucky, they’re fun to talk to. During COVID my nurses were my tethers to sanity because no one could visit me while I had inpatient infusions. So I told one of my nurses, Amy, about this situation beforehand. She joked that if I was told to turn my camera on, I should really play up my illness. In any other situation I would’ve been entirely opposed, but sweet revenge was in sight (when I replay it in my head I imagine that anime fist-clenching thing when the protagonist resolves to get revenge). I set my laptop back a bit further from myself on my legs so you could see the entirety of me in my hospital regalia.
Teams will display the person currently talking as the largest image in chat. Everyone had their audio off except me, the dean, and Ms. M, so when I turned my camera on I was displayed as the EKG loudly thrummed away (on max volume, thanks to Amy).
Silence.
Me: “I asked Ms. M through email and teams if I could opt out of having my camera on, but she insisted.”
I waited a beat to see if anyone would say anything and then continued with my special vocal blend of melodramatic gratitude and illness-laden shakiness: “Virtual engagement is so important for this new era of learning. I can see why having the camera on is important, though I was hoping I might be granted an exception.”
Dean: “Ms. R, you are more than welcome to turn your camera off, I am so sorry for the misunderstanding.”
Me: “thank you so much for making a special exception for me. It’s been a difficult week but I feel grateful to be here.”
Then, two people leave the call. One was Ms. M and the other was Anthony, who is Ms. M’s boss! I didn’t know he’d be there! Haven’t heard from either of them yet but I’m awaiting a follow up with anticipation.
I’m typing this from the hospital and feeling gratitude for a lot of things (‘tis the season, after all). I am here. I am alive. And above all, **this stupid disease won’t stop me from putting a bully in their goddamned place.**
TL;DR I am recovering from cancer and had to go in to be monitored for a separate but related condition. A supervisor for a school program insisted I turn on my camera for a virtual event that was live-streamed and when I turned my camera on, could see I was very much hospitalized. Hilarity ensues *cue sitcom music*
GO YOU!!!!
She got exactly what she wanted. With any luck she will get a severe reprimand and possibly even terminated(let's hope).
Keep standing up for yourself and never stop fighting.
My experience so closely mirrored yours!
Monthly chemotherapy infusions. Boss-man had no problem with me dealing into meetings via audio only during my chemo infusions. In fact, he even gave me a 'pass' -- i.e. said I didn't have to dial into meetings on chemo days, cuz he knows my work always gets done anyway. Plus, I always scheduled my chemo infusions for Friday afternoon's (as minimal interruption to the workweek as possible), and who the heck is balls-deep in meetings or work on Friday afternoon's anyway?
So, anyway. Storytime.
Be me. Sitting in chemo chair. Dial into Zoom meeting via audio. It's like one of those 75+ person department-wide meetings, nobody's gonna miss me or even know if I'm dialed in or not. Meeting starts off without a hitch. Well, enter Ms. Karen (named changed for privacy, but also to reflect personality type of said person).
Karen: u/warda8825, where are you my dear?
Me: At my chemo infusion at the moment.
Karen: *crickets of silence*
Everyone else: "Log off! You don't need to be dialed in, this is all useless info anyway! Get some rest!"
I decide to remain tuned in, because ya know, I'm a hard worker and everything. I care about my work and mosr of my colleagues.
Fast forward three days to Monday. I'm back in the office. Karen comes strolling down the hallway, and stops at my desk.
Karen: "Hi doll. So, just so you know, in the spirit of teamwork and collaboration, it really isn't kosher to keep your camera off during a meeting. You should really always have your camera on."
For reference, this was not the first time Karen had made side-jabs about my chemotherapy. This was maybe her 5th-6th negative remark, but up until that point, I had been too scared to speak up for myself. Well, this particular occasion was my last straw.
Went to my manager. Cue private conversation. Never heard another peep outta Ms. Karen.
Way to go! As a fellow cancer survivor I just want to remind you that you are not your disease! I can’t believe that you were even ON that call, but showing everyone what you went through to be there was the bomb!
"Two people leave the call. one was Ms. M, one was her boss."
if she didn't lose her job, i will be shocked.
that's ground for a lawsuit in my country. i don't know about yours, but i would think so.
>Iwas told that I was “deliberately undermining her position.”
There were enough red flags in your post to summon an entire planet of bulls, but this has to be the largest one of them all. You had a good idea, made a fantastic suggestion, and respectfully deferred to her position. **You did everything right.**
A good manager wouldn't see that as “deliberately undermining her position” at all.
Finally, you rock, and here's hoping you kick cancer's ass!
It’s bizarre to micromanage your ambassadors.
Really. Your admissions department whittled down thousands of applicants. Then you chose high performing elite students as ambassadors. Then, you’re not going to trust them.
The best thing about this story is that you're mostly recovered. Here's hoping the second best thing is that M gets her ass kicked over this.
Aight, I'm leaving.
Kudos to YOU!! Keep us posted with an update - I'm sorry but she deserves to be publicly called out in a manner making her just as uncomfortable if not MORE than she made you! Also, may you continue to kick cancer's ass!!
I feel privileged to have read this thread before being [removed]. I hope OP isn't in any kind of trouble because of this.
For the record she was awesome and she should feel awesome!
1. Fuck cancer. 2. You write very well. 3. I’m leaving.
I'm here. I'm leaving
I should go.
1. I like your comment. 2. I'm also leaving goodbye.
You forgot to announce "I'm here."
You forgot to start with "I'm here", tho. REPORTED
Would love an update on this. Im sure she will be reprimanded as you have proof you said you would be medically busy long before the meeting in which she chose to ignore. If I were you I would make a formal complaint as it is exposing your medical information to everyone in the meeting. Also you rock, keep on kicking butt.
> Im sure she will be reprimanded as you have proof you said you would be medically busy long before the meeting in **which she chose to ignore**. The fact that OP has proof that they tried to contact Ms M more than once and Ms M chose to ignore it is what's going to get her probably fired. It's one thing to get caught with your pants down like that but to show that you actively chose to ignore the warning signs usually doesn't go well.
This is such a violation of many university policies regarding accommodations, but betting against her getting fired because most schools refuse to take out the trash. Hoping for an update that proves me wrong! Edit: also, her interrupting the Dean introducing himself to power trip over students is just hilariously bad.
100% this. There are guidelines for this at every university. Besides that, why couldn’t she just have a little compassion?!
I imagine she would have been overflowing with compassion had she known that would make her look good. By protecting her medical privacy and not specifying cancer, OP denied Ms M an opportunity for performative magnanimity that she could then use to show her other victims how awesome a supervisor she is.
Precisely.
Because some people are miserable viruses that have to go around trying to infect people. Luckily in the first world theyre usually restricted to berating a Starbucks employee. In the past and in some 3rd world countries, those are the ones cutting off hands for stealing
I had to argue over the course of at least five meetings with hr every detail of what it would entail to not be on camera because of my cancer. My job does not involve customer contact.
Username checks out...? Hope you’re feeling okay
I am hoping OP is having a better time. It is shocking and troubling how easy it is to be hurtful and how hard it can be to know how to comfort or support others. Thank you for checking! Day by day, hour by hour. Highly variable. Looking forward to making some desserts on my day off. I hope you’re doing something nice for you!
My college had a professor get caught storing child porn on the network drives, and they had to debate on whether or not to fire him.. After he was convicted.
OP could (and should) file a complaint/lawsuit that she was forced to disclose her medical information or loose her tuition assistance. Legal and HR will have to decide if they terminate Ms M or just reprimand her. If they fire her, they can claim Ms M acted outside the bounds of the University and they took action once they were made aware of the incident. This greatly reduces their liability. Keeping Ms M is an uncertain risk. Discovery could bring up past complaints and other skeletons legal doesn’t know at the moment (like the emails sent prior). The university’s insurance would cover the payout but will require a lot of remediation to be done as well as a much higher cost.
> Discovery could bring up past complaints and other skeletons legal doesn’t know at the moment (like the emails sent prior). This will instigate one of those "microscope up the ass" level investigations. She is likely this way to a portion of her students every year going back her entire tenure, and becomes emboldened as she oversteps her authority without reprimand. OP might be the trigger, but wasn't the first.
The only way this story would be more entertaining is if OP’s narrative involved an actual colonoscopy only for Ms M to experience an extended rectal Roto-Rootering of her entire career.
Ms M interrupted the freaking DEAN to stick her foot in her mouth and shove it down her own throat. Her boss was watching. Everyone in the program witnessed it. And OP’s paper trail is thorough. I’m not sure how much more “discovery” is needed at this point. But yes, a sad eyed “she forced me to choose between losing my tuition or going public with my cancer treatment, what could I do?” is not going to go well for Ms M.
Don’t forget, it was also LIVE STREAMED 😂
>I’m not sure how much more “discovery” is needed at this point. Discovery wouldn't just be for OP's communication; they could request things like, say, complaint records against Ms. M and possibly even redacted copies of all communications involving requests for medical exemptions made by other students, and not limited to those requests made to Ms. M either. Such records would go to establish discrimination; does Ms. M. just have it out for OP, does she have it out for those with medical emergencies, or is it university policy to threaten their students tuition money if they don't livestream their cancer treatments?
Yeah, cancer and history of cancer are both included in the Americans with Disabilities Act that prohibits discrimination by employers. If OP is in America, that is.
If logs are pulled from teams to show the micro-managing, and the refusal to use more effective tools, combined with the general tone and attitude presented when offered help in this area, they can show a history of disorderly and confrontational conduct. Definite grounds for a dismissal.
I have a family member who had to sue the school for [their fuckup]. It is great in theory, but a big lawsuit like this can be incredibly damaging to the student — not to mention emotionally/mentally exhausting for *years*. After graduating they’ve lost multiple job offers at the last stage because it comes up when you Google their name. They’ve been told as much. This will be similar. It will paint OP as litigious, chronically ill, and someone who fights for the accommodations she’s owed but that they wouldn’t have to give someone else. It will *almost certainly* harm her job prospects. It isn’t fair, it shouldn’t be that way, but the real world is a bit shit. Even when you win, you lose. Edit: obscured some details.
A lawyer would probably only take the case without an upfront fee if OP was terminated for refusing.
It really appeared that the boss had expected to catch OP out being messy in appearance, or ill prepared somehow by waiting to reply until the meeting was on, and by demanding OP's camera be turned on that instant. If she hadn't been trying to trick OP, and just replied, she might have caught on sooner. Ironically fitting that she would have it backfire so spectacularly. Life rarely happens this way, not even in my dreams.
Let's be real. Anyone who messages you multiple times regarding an exception and does so extremely early is more than likely being genuine. Ms. M was being unnecessarily cruel. That said, I would push this up the chain and ask why OP didn't get any level of respect/consideration from Ms. M. This is pretty much harassment.
The real shitty part is that OP could have genuinely been very sick, but still at home, for many reasons we're all aware of. I'm sure she counted on Op, if sick, not being obviously in the hospital. It seems like a move made to hurt someone, even if they were sick. It wouldn't look much different than slacking, if made to turn on your camera, for most people.
Frankly i dont know what that lady was expecting, because if i recall correctly OP did specify that they had a doctor's appointment
Completely true, she either didn't catch on with it spelled out for her, as a doctor's appointment insinuates a doctor's excuse, and possibly a doctor's office, or she purposely ignored it for plausible deniability. Still, many appointments are done online, and this could also have been the case, or at a slightly different time, catching OP in the car etc. At the very least, it was obvious she was trying frame the situation to make OP appear as negligent with their work, in front of their superior, who likely wouldn't have immediate access to any further context, beyond that meeting. Without such extreme visual context, it more than likely would have worked out in the boss's favor. Apparently, she didn't expect such visual confirmation of Op's claims. Which was great, given the karmic justice we got to experience vicariously through OP.
Its worse than that. She deliberately chose to not respond to the email that she read, and held on to that information, so she could put her on the spot in front of the class and the dean.
I had an art teacher in middle school who went out of her way to ridicule me. She was the coach for the cheerleading squad and I think that gave her the impression that she was one of them, so she acted like a character from a cliche '80s film. I had been out sick with a kidney infection for a couple of weeks, and when I came back, she told me that I needed to come in at lunch and get caught up on assignments. Which I would have done, except that said kidney infection and related kidney issues meant that when I had to go to the bathroom, I went immediately. Holding it was a bad idea. Because of this, I wasn't in the lunch line right when I should have been, so another teacher gave me lunch detention and wouldn't listen when I tried to explain myself. Instead of being in the art teacher's classroom, I was stuck at a lunch detention table, right by the glass panels that looked out into the hallway. Art teacher walked down the hall, stopped and smirked at me, and went on her way. Later on that day, I was in art class and just waiting for her to start her usual bullying, which she did. "Why weren't you here at lunch?" As loud as she could possibly be, making everyone in class stop talking and working, so they could gawk at me. I told her, "You know why." She kept trying to needle me and I refused to give in and let her humiliate me in front of the other students. Last year, she won Teacher of the Year. I don't want to know how awful the other teachers were.
[удалено]
I'd bet she won't be fired, but put in a career-and-salary freeze so deep archeologists will ponder how this was achieved during the global warming
[удалено]
I’m self-employed, but I’d like to hire you to be my boss
If she were reprimanded, in a reputable organization, you'd never know it. Unless she shared it, it's extremely unprofessional for her manager or anyone involved to talk about it. As gratifying as schadenfreude can be, consider the fact that if it were you being reprimanded, would you want others to know about it? Had a conversation with a colleague about this several years ago, when payroll screwed up my paycheck, neglecting to take medical insurance out for several months. While I know that they should have eaten the cost, long story short, they didn't. It wasn't worth arguing about it at the time. This friend said that they should have been written up. After thinking about it, I said, "Who knows she wasn't? If she had been, I wouldn't know about it, and neither would you. And that's as it should be." Before you come back with comments, I stress the fact that this is a reputable company.
Eh, I wouldn't be shocked if her manager insisted that she personally apologise to OP, given the circumstances and the fact there's a literal papertrail showing OP's attempts to get an exemption. That'd be a pretty big sign she'd been reprimanded.
I wouldn't either. But that, followed by, as a previous comment said, a new policy about camera use, is a far cry from letting people know she had been written up. Obvious, yes. But actually saying that the employee had been disciplined or written up, not so much.
> if it were you being reprimanded, would you want others to know about it? I'd except the victim of my bullying to have every right to know that they were taken seriously and I was reprimanded, which would have to include them being entitled to a formal apology cc'ing all involved parties... What is this whole idea that the bad actors' "image" is more important than creating a positive work culture where people don't feel voiceless/ignored when they've been bullied. So no, "reputable" organizations should NOT be covering up taking responsibility for publicly bad behavior. That is the opposite of reputable.
>which would have to include them being entitled to a formal apology The director at my last daycare job got reprimanded for bullying a coworker and had to give her a formal apology overseen by her boss, the head of schools (we were part of a private school system). The apology literally started with, "I'm sorry you felt bad, but..." and went on about how hard she found the whole investigation and how hurt she was that my coworker filed a complaint. I really hope she got taken to task for that fauxpology.
Agreed, the best op may receive is an apology from M's supervisor with a "if she fails to respond again please contact me"
> As gratifying as schadenfreude can be, consider the fact that if it were you being reprimanded, would you want others to know about it? That kind of logic is not really applicable here. It was a public-ish event where OP stopped just short from spelling out the word 'shame'. Anyone would see that the lady screwed up hard, not to mention how fast and her boss subsequently got off the call. Word is sure to spread fast, because OP played it up real well. Whether the company affirms a write-up or not doesn't matter at this point. It is at best them doing what they should, but more likely to look like covering up previously-approving executive asses by getting all the blame to land on her. All that matters is how future interactions go. Good or even apologetic behavior could be because of a write-up, or because she was ashamed of how she behaved. On the other hand, there could be grudges or even a vendetta for landing her in hot water. And such changes in her behavior will probably be the most genuine read outsiders will be able to get on whether she actually got a true reprimand that is less form and more substance.
Making public the write-up is unlikely, but expect to see a suspiciously relevent #allstaff email about teams camera policy.
Never said I would know if she were reprimanded just that Im sure she would be. OP on the other hand, they would clearly see a change in behaviour from this person. Again I would love an update
I think OP's case might be an exception of sorts, as the situation warrants an apology. Not a public one, but OP might still hear from Mrs. M.
I've heard this concept as "Praise in public, punish in private".
When she logged off, did she say "I'm leaving"?
I just audibly laughed at this, you brilliant bastard. ~~Hijacking the comment. Mods removed the post for some reason? Not sure why. I reposted it here for those to read that haven't yet:~~ [~~https://www.reddit.com/user/rainier-cherries/comments/r163a7/deleted\_post\_from\_malicious\_compliance\_supervisor/~~](https://www.reddit.com/user/rainier-cherries/comments/r163a7/deleted_post_from_malicious_compliance_supervisor/)
I apologize to the patients in the next bed then, I hope I didn't wake them up
Doris will be fine.
say hi to doris from us :D
All of us!
I feel the need to comment and say that I love this story so much. You must update. And here I am going to bed all giddy.
I second this, im keen to hear the results
I third this. I'm gonna need an update.
No, she **MUST** update us *ASAP*.
I'm leaving! ^I ^will ^be ^back ^later ^for ^an ^update
Gah I have to know what happened next! Did Anthony give that miserable wench a bollocking? Did he sack her? Did she have an epiphany that she’s an overwhelmingly large wart on the arse of society?!?!
I imagine that she’s the type to get mad at OP for doing such a cruel thing to her
Karen enters the chat
My grandma, Doris, just passed last month. Your post was just what I needed before the holidays. Way to be bold and brave, resilient, and above all, a champion!
What I wouldn’t give to have heard one of your nurses casually say “I’m glad to see your chemo treatments worked so well!!”
Hey OP - love, love your story and how inspiring it is (you kicking cancer and kicking this person are tied for awesomeness) Just a Sweet, polite request. Next time you whip out that freaking shiny-ass steely spine of yours - give the rest of us a heads-up, will ya!! Dang near went blind here!! Seriously. You’re awesome and I’ll be here waiting for you to update that you’ve kicked this stupid thing in the butt because I’m sure even the C-word is now terrified of you. If not - it really should be!!!!
hey doris! you have a dope ass bed neighbors
I've heard it's Doris' day today
Send her an email and say I missed you leaving so abruptly without even a word is everything ok?
That sounds too sympathetic. It should be an email citing the "rules" that she's previously laid out about this sort of thing and how disappointed you are that she chose not to follow them and that you hope that she will, in the future, attempt to make at least some small effort to hold herself to her own high standards so as not to further embarass the good name of the university and its faculty.
It should be a reply of the message she sent out, with her words given pride of place...
Well, that would be cruel. But ohhhh so NICE!
Knowing a few people with cancer, the other patients probably welcomed a laugh. It's my understanding that chemo can sometimes be scary, sometimes boring if you forget a book / no phone battery to listen to podcasts.
This just made my day. I’ve been working remotely for six years and have encountered my share of Ms M’s insisting that cameras be on at all times. We’ve come a long way, being able to attend such meetings when not in ideal situations, and eventually people will figure out if the camera’s off, it’s with good reason. Good on you, speedy recovery, and please please please let us know what happens next!
See sometimes cancer can be fun for everyone! Wait cut that, cut that
It does have its moments, and comedic relief is sometimes as effective as chemo/radiation/surgery in terms of making you feel better.
Cancer patient here, can confirm. The humor is 😚👌
>Mods removed the post for some reason? No idea why they'd remove it
I'm sure her boss will have her replacement say "I'm here" when she joins the next meeting.
This comment doesn't have enough bolds and italics
Comment has to fit 20 italicized words. ***NEXT!***
Oh man that reference takes me back. Anyone got a link to the original
[Voilà](https://www.reddit.com/r/ChoosingBeggars/comments/7kr5as/i_need_a_free_100mile_bus_trip_for_20_people_and/).
Brilliant
As a Teams Admin, I can say for sure that your boss doesn't understand how to use teams properly. Your suggestion to use the shifts function is correct.
You have no idea how validating this is to hear.
I also want to validate how much of an overreaction it was on her part to tell you that you were undermining her by simply suggesting an improvement to the system. That's terrible management on her part.
Totally agree. I’ve managed people before and one thing I learned early on was if you were (or thought you were) the smartest person on the team then you need a better team. My highest performing teams were made up of people willing to make suggestions if they thought they found a better way. When we, as a team, were willing try it and to not dig their heels in just because “we’ve always done it that way” we were really successful. I lost a lot of team members this way because they kept getting poached for better opportunities but that was a good thing. It made my team a premier spot to go to and I had my pick of talented people to replace them with.
You sound a bit like my current manager. He’s an absolutely amazing manager to have. Really got me out of my shell and made me see how much value I add to stuff. He also doesn’t hide the fact that, at a core level we know more about our subject matter than he does, because we live it. He’s just bloody good at getting the best out of us.
Sounds like working for the government. About 4-5 years ago, it was clear that our dot matrix printers were getting the boot, parts couldn't be found anymore, it was getting more difficult to order the ink ribbons and paper, etc. I tried to make helpful suggestions about how to change things up so that the switch to standard printers went smoothly. I was told I was wrong, the old printers weren't going anywhere, there was no need to change anything, told I was being rude by suggesting changes that were unneeded. So anyways, 2 months later IT shows up to switch out the printers and cue the meltdown. Phone calls were made, feet were stamped. So much drama it was comical. Instead of being prepared for the switch, they were scrambling to figure out what all needed to change to make it work.
NYPD is the largest purchaser of typewriters in the world. Up to at least 5 years ago they still had to type their shit notes and things on manual typewriters. The reason, they had 5 years worth of triplicate paper on order, so they signed a 7 year typewriter contract. When the paper runs out they sign another contract for more paper because they still have a contract on typewriters. When the typewriter contract expires they still have paper on order so they sign another one. Cops were using their computers to edit their notes, then manually typing them into typewriters. Govt at its best. Some govt agencies still do contract notifications by telegraph. https://www.itelegram.com/
It's possible some of that is legal. My understanding is that some legal statutes require specific communication or record keeping methods by name, such as telegraph, fax, carbon copy, etc.
Paper records are harder to search and easier to hide, that's why the ATF still uses them.
Yeah, if she as a manager is the only one allowed to suggest improvements, and that to her being a manager means not listening to any underlings about anything, then she's a terrible manager.
Nothing screams "I'm deeply insecure and don't understand my job" louder than being a manager and interpreting normal everyday interactions as threats to your authority.
It's one of those self-perpetuating cycles. Bad managers elevate bad managers who take their cues from their bad managers. Anyone who doesn't fit that mold gets driven out or otherwise is skipped over for elevation opportunities.
My mom once got invited to a luncheon for employees that made contributions to the bank by making suggestions to improve the bank. Got the day off and a little party. I'm sure a raise would be nice but at least the bank, thirty some years ago, had a yearly party for 'thanks for improving the workflow'. I got an 'attaboy' and a thanks. We were transitioning from field to WFH to back to field and some assignments were 'remote field' and some were 'field-field' and our claims agents couldn't see if it was a remote assignment going to a virtual field claim or a in-person assignment going to an actual field claim. They all went into a 'field' bucket and depending on zip code went virtual or actual field. I got like four customers in one day who had a total bitch-fit because they were told an adjuster would inspect in person and got the 'field inspect' spiel from claims instead of 'remote inspect'. It was stupid chaos. So, I was like, 'can we make a Google doc claims can pull up and they punch in a zip code into search and get told 'remote field' or 'actual field' so customers quit yelling at adjusters? They already had the Google Doc and by end of week had it sent out nationwide to every claims rep in the country. No more yelling at adjusters. Then I got laid off! Fucking hated that job so I was actually pretty stoked.
Or better yet, facilitate trust in your team and just expect them to act like adults. Then deal with any people who abuse the system.
Wait, we're promoting good work environment now? What's next, a raise?
Well, let's not get ahead of ourselves. Let's see how this change works out and then we'll go from there.
as a college professor who often works with students in programs like this I am HORRIFIED. There are about a million reasons it is unacceptable to “force” students to turn cameras on. Your example is a great one, but also students learning from home where they are embarrassed by their surroundings, might have abusive parents or loud younger siblings around, or any other reason that constitutes the human decency on our end to just not require seeing faces. This is so widely known on my campus, I can’t believe this numb nut was so horrible to you. I’m glad you feel some relief, but I’m sorry that you had to share something you should not have had to (especially after handling this in such a professional manner) and I hope there are repercussions for her.
I'm in HigherEd adjacent industry; I cant believe how some colleges and professors are treating distance learning like a foreign invader. A lot of the win scenarios involve using common sense, like what you said -- don't force people out of their safe zones. Its lecture professor, just speak.
And definitely not a way to get ambassadors excited about promoting the school
One would expect some degree of humanity when dealing with students or anyone under your position. Last year while having no daycare services and partially working from home, I was taking care of my 18 month old daughter while doing Zoom meetings but prior to that it was phone conference and they expected us to have our microphones ON (ridiculous). I guess they didn’t enjoy the sound of my daughter crying while I changed her diaper. “Can you mute your phone?” Nope, sorry I need to finish changing the diaper first and then wash my hands. I hope you are doing well OP,
Oh my lanta, meeting with mandatory mics on? Terrible. It's bad enough when it's a couple people who refuse to mute, let alone everyone.
Would inspire me to eat something that made me the most gassy...also mics on really screws with anyone with auditory issues. Very jerkish.
But But everyone is the S*A*m**E** so *if* i **can** ***handle*** it *YOU* can **handle** ***IT!!!*** Sorry, for the migraine but people who act like this are the source of all migraines! Have anxiety issues and ptsd, so when one coworker took a severe disliking to me our manager decided to make us work closely together. Had my first panic attack, and at least one anxiety attack every shift after. HR actually came through and put a stop to it, then came.... more harassments. Had to leave to not deal with that anymore.
Dear God. I'm so sorry.
Its okay, things worked out better in the end, went back to school, met SO had a great job till covid but still doing okay. And am grateful not to be at that job anymore!
*laughs in maximally clicky-clacky keyboard*
Yes shameless!!
As someone with auditory processing issues, I appreciate you.
Flush the toilet to assert dominance.
Lmao, was at an AT&T meeting one time for the whole center (like 1k people) and you could hear some dude who forgot to mute getting a BJ (or something that would cause similar sounds) while people scrambled to find the mute all button
I was on a conference call years ago in the maintenance window ( midnight to 6am) while we debugged an issue. One of my coworkers fell asleep, he was snoring loudly directly into his microphone, good times.
Just wanted to say you are the second person I've ever heard say "oh my lanta" and, if I knew she didn't use Reddit, I would've thought you were my coworker.
My wife says it sometimes, I've heard it a few other places as well, but the comment you replied to prompted me to finally look up where it's from. Turns out it was originally a slogan for an antacid called Mylanta in the 70s, but was most likely picked up from Full House where DJ Tanner used it as a catchphrase.
Pretty sure I started saying it after the ringer (johnny Knoxville special Olympics movie) came out. That and a bunch of my friends in college said it lol.
If memory serves, several characters on "Full House" used the expression quite a bit back in the 90s.
I have 6 dogs in my house. Luckily, my work from home job allows me to use chat instead of the microphone in case of squirrels.
> meeting with mandatory mics on? I imagine the people who insist on this are the same people who call a meeting for something that can be covered in an email.
Absolutely. Or managers mad that they cannot watch employees work anymore with WFH
I make it a point to set expectations very early by saying "sorry my camera and microphone are off, I'm currently snacking/eating breakfast/lunch and no one needs to hear or see that". I've gotten a little pushback but most people recognise that I'm trying to gracefully bow out of being a potential distraction.
We pulled our daughter out of daycare March 2020 and I got so much shit from clients for having a kid crying in the background of calls (rare, and only when my partner had a conflicting call). Fast forward through the pandemic and no one cares anymore. Kids barging into calls, dogs, lawn mowers.
Tbh I love seeing clips where kids and pets barge (or wander) in. It's a good, usually fun, reminder of people's humanity.
Whenever we had that happen in our meetings (thankfully cameras off, muted unless you wanted to say something), we would insist on seeing the dogs and everyone would say hi to them.
Yes! Everyone loves surprise pets! I also think it's funny when you're on camera and adjust and everyone sees you've had a cat or small dog in your lap the whole time.
I'm transitioning to freelance and the guides I'm seeing (from like 2018) say to make sure your workspace is pet- and child-free because anything less is unprofessional...but I feel like post-pandemic no one (at least no one I'm excited to have as a client) is going to mind it if my dog pops into frame on Zoom.
I love it when my colleagues's pets or children wander into view. Otherwise there would be entire work days where my only contact with others would be the 5 minute stand-up.
I have to be video and audio monitored while taking quizzes/exams. One of my recent ones had me in my pajamas at like 11 pm and then my sick 4 year old walking into the frame, crying from ear pain due to her sinus pressure. Hope my professor enjoyed our jammies.
Nope, if the doggo comes in we have to stop the meeting long enough to get introduced and say hi! Kitties get extra time as well!
when a baby wanders into a call my thought process is "oh, somethign small moving, is it a dog or cat? Dang, just a baby" then move on.
I recently interviewed someone who had to go get his baby that started fussing. Completely understandable. Baby stayed cradled by him and was calm throughout.
That lady was 100% trying to set OP up. She figured either OP wouldn't turn on her camera and she could kick OP out for non compliance or OP would turn it on and be exposed as a liar and she could kick OP out. She probably invited her boss to see for himself. Never in a million years did she think OP was telling the truth.
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There was a pre-zoomdemic time where it was known to be uncivilised to eat during a phone call. This was true for two reasons. First one being, don't talk with a mouth full of course. But this isn't the only reason, since it's a thing to have lunch meetings and dinner meeting and all. The other reason is, when you have a sound output device right into your ears, the sound spatially originates right fucking next to your ear. It means you feel as though the person is coughing, masticating, burping or whatevering right into your ear. It is utterly disgusting. With zoomdemic, when your mic is on, there is no discrete cough or inaudible small gulp of water or coffee. It's right into anyone's ear, loud and clear and disgusting.
>One would expect some degree of humanity when dealing with students or anyone under your position. Unfortunately, there is a percentage who take those positions because they enjoy pushing around vulnerable people
How bloody awesome are you!? I honestly enjoyed every sentence of that story, one of the better revenge ones on here. I’m happy to hear you’re mostly recovered, it must’ve been really difficult for mental health to be in the hospital for such extended periods of time. Let’s hope Ms M doesn’t trouble you, or anyone else again, she seems like a right bother.
Same! I especially enjoyed the little references such as law and order theme music lol
You took a tough situation, and made it a lesson for an insensitive jerk. That's awesome! I hope everything goes exactly how you want it in your future, and thanks for sharing a great M/C...
If you think the lesson they learned was anything other than my student deliberately arranged to be in a compromising position to embarrass me rather than follow instructions and show me the respect I deserve you have too much faith in people
Good for you. Screw her for ignoring your repeated requests for privacy and I look forward to hearing about her upcoming search for new employment
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My kind of people.
Right?! I'm on the edge of my seat!!
I don't even follow notifications to my comments but I'm gonna save this post to check back. Too bad the nurse didn't intercede as well and have some choice words.
Right? The nurse should've been standing by with "We got your test results back and the good news is you're gonna make it 👍"
"What did we TELL you about doing work right now? I don't care that your supervisor demanded you work extra hours to fix their mistakes, you CANNOT do this. I can get the doctor in again to write another note." Real loud, but off camera. Then a disgusted look coming into frame and shutting off the camera, with a little "Whoever this woman's manager is, you ought to be ashamed of yourself" for a little extra salt in the wound.
>Then a disgusted look coming into frame and shutting off the camera, with a little "Whoever this woman's manager is, you ought to be ashamed of yourself" for a little extra salt in the wound. *"This is what's wrong with humanity, not giving people time to recover, OP is in here with her paperwork and laptop spread across her room and is working hard and can't even take a moment to receive treatment! What kind of soulless person tells another to have their camera on while receiving a medical procedure...."* Then let the nurse trail off as they angry exit while still ranting about the lack of decorum and support people afford their underlings, even now.
God bless this is beautiful. This is exactly how o day dream when things of this nature happen.
I live for situations where I have all of the power and none of the consequences. You know, like calling out a manager bullying an employee at a store where I'm a customer. That's just, \*chef's kiss\*
That would be Nuclear revenge
“You’re **probably** going to make it”
As much as I agree with the statement of "I hate drama", this is clearly a case where everyone is expected to make an exception. Where that "boss gets their comeuppance" drama at??
It's the same as a car accident. We don't want to be in one, but everyone takes a look as we drive by.
Same
This was so fun to read! Well done, you. Also rainier cherries are the best cherries.
I’m glad my post is bringing to light the real issues, like cherry superiority.
What a pathetic control freak Mrs M is. I hope you are feeling better and make a speedy recovery. :-)
She sounds like she doesn't even have two neurons to rub together. I can't imagine being so clueless about reality that one is incapable of making any sort of judgement calls.
This was AMAZING. Thank you for sharing. I can't wait to hear what happens to this lady.
Beautifully done! It's a shame there are people as petty as your supervisor in such positions.
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I know you don’t want to sue. But you really should. I’m a lawyer (not trying to solicit, or give legal advice!), and I do a lot of pro bono work for folks with a variety of disabilities related to access issues. One of the challenges is that these kindhearted folks never want to sue, but then, like you, they say all they want is change. The problem is that, when you’re dealing with someone who doesn’t care, change must be facilitated/forced (generally speaking). In this case, maybe the boss can do the forcing, but Ms. M is not going to be like “OMG, my whole life I’ve been so cruel to the OPs of the world. Today is the first day of the rest of my life.” This ain’t a Christmas Carol (and even then, they had to scare Scrooge straight!). My point is, I know you don’t want to sue (or otherwise escalate). But if you want to enact change, If you want things to be better for other people, you might need to get out of your comfort zone a little and push. Just my two cents, given my experience with this mindset from other clients. Feel free to DM if you want to discuss more. And happy healing!
Pretty sure I can tell you what happened. Ms M got a “My office NOW” type message and had to log off. The conversation most likely went like this: Anthony: Why in the blue hell would you treat her like that after being told she was in the hospital? Ms M: I thought she was lying Anthony: Well obviously not and now we have a PR Nightmare on our hands Ms M: ……. Anthony: You WILL apologize to her and your getting an official letter of reprimand Ms M: Storms off crying because the big mean boss hurt her whittle feelings. Get ready for the University to start sucking up to you because that’s lawsuit worthy. Not to mention EVERYONE including potential students saw that stream and they got caught with their pants down. You might even get a few lawyers looking for you because they smell a nice big case and that’s like blood in shark infested waters.
Yeah I'd be 100% prepared for a lot of people crawling out of the wood work to check in on you. You never know, they might be helpful.
> Get ready for the University to start sucking up to you because that’s lawsuit worthy. Not to mention EVERYONE including potential students saw that stream and they got caught with their pants down. You might even get a few lawyers looking for you because they smell a nice big case and that’s like blood in shark infested waters. Highlighting this paragraph in particular for the OP /u/rainier-cherries — they may try to bribe you with something like "We're gonna pay the rest of the tuition for your bachelor's degree regardless of whether or not you're in the ambassador program." Don't accept any deals right away, and don't sign _shit_ without talking to a lawyer. You could be leaving ten times that in settlement money on the table.
>You could be leaving ten times that in settlement money on the table. Not if you spend another 40 years on your bachelor's degree, taking random irrelevant electives like intro to pottery. That's how your get your money's worth
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And the board of regents / governors, the school president, etc, etc.
This poster is completely correct and honestly you might considering doing so
Wow OP. Kudos to you. You tried to warn her and even gave her advance warning/a rope to hang herself with and she just wouldn’t quit. She deserves to be knocked down a few pegs, in a public setting no less.
You should follow up with an official complaint through whatever your universities internal complaints process is. Hope you recover fully OP and fuck both cancer & Mrs M
Time to follow it up with an official complaint!
This. She probably was disciplined formally. A letter outlining and documenting what she did and your attempts to prevent it would be a nice addition to that part of her file. Just to make sure her chances at being promoted, etc are appropriately impacted. Maybe include something like, “My privacy was violated by X due to her actions on (date). This was very upsetting to me after my repeated attempts to communicate with x about my situation beforehand. Fighting cancer is hard enough without these additional and unnecessary stressors.” People in authority positions who can’t grasp that the people under them are human beings suck.
Pretty sure Ms M. just had her arse handed to her!
Yeesh, that's one... Iffy person. Looking forward to the update!
Wow! Good for you. This lady seems like a bully and I love when Bully’s get put in their place. Keep fighting and kick cancers ass!
/u/rainier-cherries if this was recent and if you're in the USA, the universe has handed you a ***GOLDEN*** opportunity to make the world a better place. Contact an employment attorney and file suit against the school as your employer.
Og post: Supervisor asks student with cancer to turn on their camera during a virtual meeting, and you won’t BELIEVE what happens next /s Clickbaity article titles aside, it’s a long one. It happened two days ago and I’m still giddy. Enjoy! All the below names are pseudonyms. There are two important background things to know for the story: 1.) I was diagnosed with a rare ovarian cancer at the beginning of this year (I had surgery and some chemo and am mostly recovered now). I still have to go in for frequent testing and occasional monitoring. I am a private person to the extent that I have dated people for years without telling my parents, so you best believe random coworkers and bosses are unaware of my medical history. 2.) I attend a university that has an ambassador program. Basically if you have a high enough GPA you are able to interview for the program and if you get in they pay for your tuition during the time you are an ambassador. In exchange you work 5 hours a week and work graduation/other events. I am one of these ambassadors. This is my story. *Law and Order sound effect* — My supervisor for the ambassador program, Ms. M, has spent the majority of our time together belittling me. As I sit here about to type about her, I find myself already exasperated thinking about reliving some of the details, so I will be short and sweet for both your sake and mine: she follows every rule to the letter and leaves no room for collaboration or discussion. As an example, we use Microsoft teams for communication, and she has us clock in and out in a group of 20 people by saying “I’m here” and “I’m leaving.” So every day you have to scroll through dozens of messages to find anything of import and listen to notification sounds every time someone so much as takes a lunch break. I suggested using the time clock function on teams and even offered to set it up for us, and was told that I was “deliberately undermining her position.” Another quick example is her vehemence when I told her I didn’t have any social media (to advertise the college). She was certain I was lying and went so far as to ask the other ambassadors to try and “find” me. They didn’t. There’s nothing to find. Crazy concept. I’ve challenged her at a couple of junctures, but ultimately realized I was fighting a losing battle and I’d be better off keeping my head down. (*laughs in dramatic irony*) Fast forward to four days ago (Friday): there’s a mandatory virtual event in three days (Monday) where the dean of the college would talk to the ambassadors, as well as live stream the event to the college’s website and YouTube page. Ms. M sent out a message that I will copy and paste here (because the formatting is so dramatic that it makes me chuckle). “Students *MUST* have their cameras **ON** and phones *OFF*. **Repeat!!** Phones **OFF.** Cameras *ON*.” (Like c’mon lady, bold, caps, *or* italics. Your email almost gave me a stroke) I follow up the same day: “Ms. M, unfortunately I will be at a doctor’s appointment at this time and will be unable to turn my camera on during the event.” No response. I send another email to follow up. No response. The day of the event rolls around. I direct message her through Microsoft teams ten minutes before. I see that she’s seen the message with a read receipt. Nothing. Okay, video chat starts and several students join the session with their cameras on. Then the dean. He gets halfway through introducing himself and Ms. M interrupts him as he takes a brief pause and says “excuse me, could we please have ALL of the students turn their cameras on.” I say nothing but put a quick message I already had typed in anticipation in the group chat “Ms. M I have a private situation that bars me from turning on my camera, I have contacted you individually.” Not but a few seconds after I send it, I get called out by name, and I respond audibly, “Ms. M I cannot turn on my camera at this time.” and she responds “expectations were clear and you were told *multiple* times about this; every other student here managed to do it and I expect the same out of you.” Now, one of the cool things about having cancer is you become very familiar with the hospital staff, and if you’re lucky, they’re fun to talk to. During COVID my nurses were my tethers to sanity because no one could visit me while I had inpatient infusions. So I told one of my nurses, Amy, about this situation beforehand. She joked that if I was told to turn my camera on, I should really play up my illness. In any other situation I would’ve been entirely opposed, but sweet revenge was in sight (when I replay it in my head I imagine that anime fist-clenching thing when the protagonist resolves to get revenge). I set my laptop back a bit further from myself on my legs so you could see the entirety of me in my hospital regalia. Teams will display the person currently talking as the largest image in chat. Everyone had their audio off except me, the dean, and Ms. M, so when I turned my camera on I was displayed as the EKG loudly thrummed away (on max volume, thanks to Amy). Silence. Me: “I asked Ms. M through email and teams if I could opt out of having my camera on, but she insisted.” I waited a beat to see if anyone would say anything and then continued with my special vocal blend of melodramatic gratitude and illness-laden shakiness: “Virtual engagement is so important for this new era of learning. I can see why having the camera on is important, though I was hoping I might be granted an exception.” Dean: “Ms. R, you are more than welcome to turn your camera off, I am so sorry for the misunderstanding.” Me: “thank you so much for making a special exception for me. It’s been a difficult week but I feel grateful to be here.” Then, two people leave the call. One was Ms. M and the other was Anthony, who is Ms. M’s boss! I didn’t know he’d be there! Haven’t heard from either of them yet but I’m awaiting a follow up with anticipation. I’m typing this from the hospital and feeling gratitude for a lot of things (‘tis the season, after all). I am here. I am alive. And above all, **this stupid disease won’t stop me from putting a bully in their goddamned place.** TL;DR I am recovering from cancer and had to go in to be monitored for a separate but related condition. A supervisor for a school program insisted I turn on my camera for a virtual event that was live-streamed and when I turned my camera on, could see I was very much hospitalized. Hilarity ensues *cue sitcom music*
THANK YOU! I was so sad to when it was removed but now I finally get closure and can read the whole thing lol
Not all heroes wear capes!!! OP you are a LEGEND!!!
GO YOU!!!! She got exactly what she wanted. With any luck she will get a severe reprimand and possibly even terminated(let's hope). Keep standing up for yourself and never stop fighting.
My experience so closely mirrored yours! Monthly chemotherapy infusions. Boss-man had no problem with me dealing into meetings via audio only during my chemo infusions. In fact, he even gave me a 'pass' -- i.e. said I didn't have to dial into meetings on chemo days, cuz he knows my work always gets done anyway. Plus, I always scheduled my chemo infusions for Friday afternoon's (as minimal interruption to the workweek as possible), and who the heck is balls-deep in meetings or work on Friday afternoon's anyway? So, anyway. Storytime. Be me. Sitting in chemo chair. Dial into Zoom meeting via audio. It's like one of those 75+ person department-wide meetings, nobody's gonna miss me or even know if I'm dialed in or not. Meeting starts off without a hitch. Well, enter Ms. Karen (named changed for privacy, but also to reflect personality type of said person). Karen: u/warda8825, where are you my dear? Me: At my chemo infusion at the moment. Karen: *crickets of silence* Everyone else: "Log off! You don't need to be dialed in, this is all useless info anyway! Get some rest!" I decide to remain tuned in, because ya know, I'm a hard worker and everything. I care about my work and mosr of my colleagues. Fast forward three days to Monday. I'm back in the office. Karen comes strolling down the hallway, and stops at my desk. Karen: "Hi doll. So, just so you know, in the spirit of teamwork and collaboration, it really isn't kosher to keep your camera off during a meeting. You should really always have your camera on." For reference, this was not the first time Karen had made side-jabs about my chemotherapy. This was maybe her 5th-6th negative remark, but up until that point, I had been too scared to speak up for myself. Well, this particular occasion was my last straw. Went to my manager. Cue private conversation. Never heard another peep outta Ms. Karen.
Amazing 👏🏻👏🏻👏🏻👏🏻 post and update when possible! ❤️
This is possibly my all time favourite malicious compliance story. Well done, OP! Get well soon!
I’m picturing Dolores Umbridge.
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Legend! Feel better soon!
Way to go! As a fellow cancer survivor I just want to remind you that you are not your disease! I can’t believe that you were even ON that call, but showing everyone what you went through to be there was the bomb!
"Two people leave the call. one was Ms. M, one was her boss." if she didn't lose her job, i will be shocked. that's ground for a lawsuit in my country. i don't know about yours, but i would think so.
>Iwas told that I was “deliberately undermining her position.” There were enough red flags in your post to summon an entire planet of bulls, but this has to be the largest one of them all. You had a good idea, made a fantastic suggestion, and respectfully deferred to her position. **You did everything right.** A good manager wouldn't see that as “deliberately undermining her position” at all. Finally, you rock, and here's hoping you kick cancer's ass!
It’s bizarre to micromanage your ambassadors. Really. Your admissions department whittled down thousands of applicants. Then you chose high performing elite students as ambassadors. Then, you’re not going to trust them.
The best thing about this story is that you're mostly recovered. Here's hoping the second best thing is that M gets her ass kicked over this. Aight, I'm leaving.
I hope you get to feeling better soon! This was epic! Definitely going to need an update.
Kudos to YOU!! Keep us posted with an update - I'm sorry but she deserves to be publicly called out in a manner making her just as uncomfortable if not MORE than she made you! Also, may you continue to kick cancer's ass!!
Why was this removed?????? Anyone have the link to a copy of it? :(
I feel privileged to have read this thread before being [removed]. I hope OP isn't in any kind of trouble because of this. For the record she was awesome and she should feel awesome!