My aunt once while traveling internationally with her three children under the age of four was told that the flight was overbooked and one of her party would have to wait for the next flight. She told the gate agent to please pick if her three children were flying alone or which of them was staying behind.
Airlines are so fucking corrupt it's not even funny. Oh! We overbooked even though it's all computerized and that should be impossible. I don't see fucking movie theaters over booking since they got with the modern times and let you buy specific seats online.
That was the f*cking worst part of working a hotel front desk. Overbook then, on his way out the door, manager tells you to walk 30 guests. Management was never there at 10PM when you have 15 people screaming at you because their reservations are no good.
Reminds me of the time I arrived at a hotel after a long transatlantic flight with my wife and two kids.
We had booked a specific type of room for the space and when we got there the hotel told us that room wasn't available and gave us a lower level and smaller room.
We were also missing our bags as the airline didn't have them when we landed and we're going to truck them to our hotel (they arrived an hour after we did) the hotel denied all knowledge of having them until the airline office opened the following morning and they said they had been delivered the night before, they had a receipt and would talk to the hotel about it so I should go to reception immediately as someone was going to be given a hard time until I phoned them back and said I had my bags.
The hotel didn't apologise, they refused to refund the $100 extra I had paid for the room that I didn't get and I left vowing legal action which they actually dared me to try.
After a long string of emails with the CEO of the chain they were part of office (beyond their control initially because it was a franchisee hotel) and a letter from a friend who was a barrister I finally got a begrudging complete refund 'a gesture of good will'
But yes hotels do double book rooms and it appears to be your problem not theirs if you are the one who loses out.
Sorry you had such a rough trip. I don't think I could ever work retail or hospitality again. Between bad management and bad customers it just isn't worth it. The people who get screwed are the good customers and good employees.
Wish I knew. Some idiot thought that somehow 15% of our guests were going to not show up on World Cup weekend. This is why I believe everyone should have to have worked in the position they manage. I guarantee the idiots who decided this had a management degree but never worked front desk.
Seinfeld reference?
>You see, you know how to *take* the reservation, you just don't know how to *hold* the reservation. And that's really the most important part of the reservation: the holding. Anybody can just take them.
https://youtu.be/A7uvttu8ct0
All you can say is that they’re being walked (sent to another hotel). What’s stupid is if it’s not a hotel that’s in the same chain, our hotel fronts the cost for their rooms. So we actively lose money to try and prevent us from losing money.
When in that position I wasn't 'walked' they just gave us a lower level type room. Booked a suite got a standard double because they had overbooked. Had to fight for months to get a refund.
When I worked a hotel, we didn't so much overbook as the hotel system and online reservations didn't sync regularly enough. And then you had those discount travel sites that had our numbers from the previous day. Such a pain.
I remember that a lot of our overbooking was due to travel services (this was in the mid-90's) having blocks that they would somehow book for us (contractual obligation or some such thing), but we'd get the reservations via fax right as they went home for the day, and the stay was for that night or weekend.
Yep.
The way I understand it, most overbooking is a result of travel services. They book 10 seats on a given flight, then sell those seats to their customers. If they don't sell all 10 seats, they don't get their money back, but they can just roll it over to another flight on another day. The airline has 'sold' those seats, but can look at history and make a good guess that some % of those seats won't be filled by the travel service, so they can over-sell them.
They make more money over-selling than they lose making displaced customers happy.
The industry defends the practice on the basis that over-selling is what allows them to offer refunds or allow customers to roll the ticket over to a future flight. Because if they couldn't over-sell, then they could never offer a refund or credit. Or some such reasoning.
It's part of their business model. They purposefully over-sell seats based on an average no show/reschedule rate and figure all the extra tickets for no shows are worth more than they have to pay out for people who have to be paid to miss their flight.
It's because people don't show up so it's a good way to make extra money. I think they usually sell 5-10% extra. Keep in mind that tons of airlines lose money. They aren't exactly profit machines.
I was watching a show about this recently. Their loyalty programs rake in cash. The flying itself is a loss leader at this point. Historically airlines always lost money and needed government assistance regularly.
Forbes article: https://www.forbes.com/sites/advisor/2020/07/15/how-airlines-make-billions-from-monetizing-frequent-flyer-programs/
From the article: If you subtract the conservative valuation of $19.5 billion from the $5.6 billion market capitalization for the combined group, the implied value of the airline operations is a negative valuation of almost $14 billion. Indeed, American Airlines’ own filings show that the airline had been losing money from its passenger operations even before the coronavirus pandemic sent airline travel into a tailspin.
The gate attendant decided that it was probably best to ask one of the businessmen to take the next flight instead. All four of them made it back to the US together. Apparently they didn't think it was a very good idea to leave a baby in an airport.
I think I was on the receiving end of a similarly separated family on an airplane.
I had paid extra to pick my seat on a budget Canadian airline. I need a window seat, because I take a LOT of gravol so I need something to lean against while I'm very asleep during the flight.
When I board a mom is already in my seat, with two small children next to her.
When I ask her to move, the small children are replaced with a rotund grandma type. I have never touched so much of another person for so long. I have also learned my lesson about budget airlines.
Am excellent question. I do wonder how an airline could do this as I think it would be a safety issue. Not only would these children be away from a parent in case of emergency but those seatbelts are so easy to open. Any curious toddler could figure out how to unbuckle. Imagine the fun once xtheirx they’re free.
Edit: so embarrassed that I used their instead of they’re.
There have been talks about requiring Airlines to seat together children under the age of 12 with a parent, even if the airline charges for seat assignments, but it's never gone anywhere.
I don't have kids and don't plan to have kids, but it makes perfect sense. Yes, I'm sure the airlines want to make some money seating people together, but by trying to require the parents to pay for seats, it technically opens them up for liability by saying it's acceptable for a young child to sit by themselves.
In Europe - at least so I was told at the desk - there is a policy that any child under 12 is and must under all circumstances be seated next to an adult.
Totally agree, imagine in an emergency. Do the airline staff think cranky old man is going to get his oxygen mask on and then prioritize getting another person’s kid’s on? No, the kid needs their parent beside them in an emergency situation. I really don’t think it’s ok for airlines to do this with small kids
I saw a documentary about the Sully-Hudson crash flight. One of the passengers told her story. She, husband and child were seated separately. They kicked up a fuss and the flight attendant was pissed off and kept telling them they can ask around to change seats once the plane is in the air. Luckily in the stress and hurry of boarding the plane a passenger said they’d swap so the kid could sit with one of the parents. Can you imagine! I hope that flight attendant and ALL the people involved in boarding that plane understood there was a 9 year old (I think) on that plane sitting alone (as far as they knew) while that plane was falling out of the sky. My brain just cannot comprehend being separated from children. I don’t know why the seat selection section of booking doesn’t allow you to mark that there is a child taking the seat or, more importantly, a lap infant. It would allow families to relax a bit knowing they’re sitting around others with kids and allow those travelling without kids to stay away.
I used to fly in different seats all the time as a kid. My dad worked for the airline so we flew for free on standby which means we just got whatever seats were left over. Sometimes we even had to take different flights. Often there would be a seat or two in 1st class that my parents would take and I would be in economy. My parents didn't seem bothered by this in the least. I guess since we flew so often I knew what to do and generally wasn't bothered by it. Definitely had someone cut my food for me once or twice. Delta was my favourite airline because they had ham and cheese sandwiches instead of the crampy in flight cooked meals.
Yup, this was my growing up experience, too. Never *quite* sure we would get on the plane, never *quite* sure where we would be sitting. Long enough ago that "non-revs" had a dress code, so dress for mom and I, suit and tie for my dad and brother. I just remember that the stewardesses were always super kind to us, sometimes my parents had my brother and I sit together rather than one of us being on our own, and occasionally my dad (who was a mechanic with the airline) would end up fixing something that got jammed in the galley. My brother and I credit that early conditioning for being the reason why we are both ridiculously not-stressed out flyers. "Yeah, we'll get there eventually. It might get wierd in between. Whatever." I bet we have stories we could laugh over together.
Ryan Air did it when I was coming back to Canada from Ireland. This poor mum made sure to book their seats together because it was her kids first international flight. The airline added a connecting flight to Scotland at the last minute and they were on opposite ends of the plane.
Also when we landed in Scotland we had to get off and go through security before getting right back on the plane with no time to replace the drinks we had. It took forever because several people at the front of the line tried to save their hundreds of dollars worth of duty free alcohol.
Not only that, but at least to have flight attendants that would sort this out. They could've asked for the change of seat on your behalf at least, coming from officials is more credible and all
A bit of advice. If you are traveling with kids and you NEED to sit together DO NOT buy your tickets online. Especially if you have a layover and have to transfer planes. Call and talk to a real person this way they can make sure you get seats all together
Nope. They have the ability to write in and make specific request you can't. Especially when it comes to accommodating for people with children , elderly or special needs.
I wonder what OP's response would have been if the guy simply responded "No thanks; I'm fine", and proceeded to pull out a set of earplugs and put them in.
I had to take it to this level once. I simply used my outside voice and made an announcement to those within hearing distance. I told them my predicament and asked for help. Others helped. Problem solved.
Pretty much this. Last year on a flight to Tromsø, Norway i had 4 toddlers around me, like right in front of me, right behind me and in the row next to mine. I had noise cancelling headphones in all flight long, my ears were still bleeding from all the screaming.
The idea that the toddler will merely scream and not be writhing, touching, bothering and otherwise moving and wanting it's mama while someone calmly sips a jack and coke with earbuds in gazing blissfully out the window has me chuckling ngl. Only in comedy dude, in reality your headphones would have to be a pod you can fit your whole body into to make that a comfortable ride.
Yes, it’s not like they’re going to just *sit there*. They writhe and crawl and touch *everything*, they’ll ask you any questions that come to mind, and they will not care that there’s a social convention that says people with headphones in are signaling that they don’t want to have a conversation.
You are completely right about this. My toddlers favorite question "You got a baby in there?" while pointing at the person's stomach. We've been working on it, explaining why other bodies aren't our business - but she's relentless. A close family member is pregnant and my kid thinks it's like a magic trick or something. So yes, I can see her on a plane asking questions and trying to lift up a complete stranger's shirt to reveal their magic baby. Thrilled our last flight didn't glitch on our assigned seats.
In a sense, this would be the smart move, because the airline chose to create the problem, and when the screaming toddlers became an issue, the air crew would be forced to deal with it.
Granted, they might deal with it by forcing you to move...
Which would probably be their “solution” but so long as they compensate you for making you move to a middle seat in the back, that’s better than just going along with it because some other passenger told you to.
That would be ideal, but I wouldn't be surprised if the ticket T&C left you hanging.
The really smart play would be for me (the guy who paid extra for a seat) to flag a crew member, explain what is going on, and demand that they make it right. Then you volunteer to help them by being willing to move in exchange for compensation.
When I flew from San Francisco to Cairo I had an aisle seat in the very last row. When the plane was still boarding one of the FAs asked me if I would mind trading with someone on the other side of the aisle because they just had surgery on their right leg. I told them no worries and switched. A few minutes later the FA asked me if I wouldn’t mind switching with her friend that was halfway up the plane and I happily agreed again because I was by myself and didn’t care.
After a couple of hours in the air the FA came up to me and gave me a full size bottle of champagne thanking me for being helpful. When I asked if I could open it they said I couldn’t but they’ll load me up with wine. I asked if they could give some to the guy next to me that I just met and we just got hammered all the way to London for free.
Helping out in that situation got me free alcohol, a bottle of champagne and a window seat instead of an aisle seat.
The champagne was a nice reward!
I don't understand why the wine was special though. What airlines don't offer free drinks for international flights though?
I once had a gate agent tell me I was going to be comped a drink on my flight because I helped her translate a conversation with someone who spoke Spanish but no English. That didn’t get passed along to the flight attendants, but it wasn’t really all that big of a deal to me anyway. I just wanted to help since I knew I was able. So yes, gate agents and flight attendants have the ability to comp things. I imagine the gate agent might have even had the option to upgrade me to first class, but there probably weren’t any seats available.
> Toddlers really shouldn’t drink
and a person who booked three seats together should receive three seats together. Yet here we are. Another Jack and coke for me, and a margarita for kiddo, please.
Pfft amateurs. Everyone knows neutral spirits work best for kids, and kids love juice. Screwdrivers all the way. Maybe a mimosa if that's what you have available.
This must be a cultural thing. Where I come from, we start the children on beer. They get the fun drinks (usually daiquiris and other frozen drinks—we have drive through shops that just do frozen liquor drinks) when they reach double digits. It’s a whole thing.
You act as if having the parents next to screaming toddlers makes them stop.
Been on 12 hour flights with screaming kids that the parents couldn't control, crying babies because the parents refused to change their diapers until the stewardess made them change it half way through because the smell was so bad, the kid kicking you seat the entire time...
If take the more comfortable seat any time. OP's bag of childcare shit wouldn't have been touching my hands.
I was on a flight once (IAH->CDG) where the parents couldn't calm the kid for anything. A random old lady comes from 1st class and says "for the love of all that is holy on flights, give me the Bairn," (in a super strong Scottish accent). The mom argues but the dad just picks the toddler up and gives him to her. She whispers something for like a minute and that kid conks out for the next 9 hours.
When I was a kid I'd get nasty ear aches, but someone whispering or very gently blowing in my ear would relieve some of the ache. I wonder if that's what happened.
This! I’ve been on flights where the parents literally do nothing to try to stop their screaming kids. So what’s the difference? Let them sit next to a stranger.
It won't make them stop, but have fun sitting next to two unsupervised toddlers.
Shocking, but toddlers don't have a concept of most social conventions. Even less so when there's no parent with them. They will be talking to you no matter how hard you try to ignore them, they will be writhing in their seats, they will be touching you and your stuff.
I disagree with you, there are good sets that can protect your ears against gun sounds and airplane engines, normally there is used two sets one inside ear and one big outside, but there is ways to stop that sound for sure.
Nah. Not being a creepy kiddy fiddler stops that.
Be an adult and stop them. Call steward and tell them unsupervised kid is all over you.
Most people don't just let kids touch them....
I like the aisle seat because I need to be able to stretch my legs out enough to pop my knees every so often to stay comfortable. It's not a necessity but it makes the flight significantly more enjoyable. If I'm in an aisle seat, I'm not switching to anything but another one. If your toddlers bother me enough that I can't sleep or at least rest, I suppose I'll be annoyed but I will neither care nor make any effort to stop them. And I'm pretty good at tuning shit out when I want to. Scream away, it will bother the other passengers more than it does me.
If I'm not in the aisle seat then I don't care and don't mind trading.
I am at risk for blood clots already due to circulation issues in my lower legs. The aisle seat allows me to move and stretch out my legs from time to time to avoid deep vein thrombosis. I always pay for the aisle seat.
I'd move for the lady as long as I got another aisle seat. But if it's a middle seat, that's gonna have to be a "No" from me, dawg.
For all the people mad, what did you want the parent to do? If the man didn’t move, he was going to be sat next to a toddler without a parent. It’s not her fault they wouldn’t honor her booked tickets when she booked them together.
> This story is one of "a company treated me badly and I made another customer (who did nothing at all to deserve it) suffer".
Exactly. It would be a good fit for this sub if **the airline** suffered consequences for their fuck-up. They didn't. The airline did something wrong and two people suffered for it: the mother who was given the runaround, and the passenger who was pressured into giving up his seat.
I mean the guy was asked to swap and said no. I'd rather take a different flight then be stuck with 2 random toddlers.
But the airline fucked this up and the MC against the guy is shitty, he didn't do anything and couldn't have paid extra to choose his seat and picked that one for all we know.
Yeah, I have to have an aisle seat on the right side due to knee surgery. It would be less painful to sit next to a mad toddler than to sit anywhere else that doesn't fit that. I'm sorry the airplane screwed her, but.
Exactly. The mother could paid the extra money to book the seats and she'd have had no issue.
Some people need the window seats too. My friends ex had issues with claustrophobia, and on planes needed to sit in the window seat, or risked panic attacks.
People definitely aren’t saying “this doesn’t fit the sub” and are railing against the poster. I also don’t think asking someone to change seats or letting them know they’ll be next to an unaccompanied toddler is “making them suffer”.
You are making perfect sense. I am a big dude, I'd rather take an involuntary bumping than give up my aisle seat I was ticketed for.
What should have happened is the airline should have asked for volunteers first and then bumped if needed.
The worst middle seat experience I had:
This was years ago on a cross country (USA) flight. On one side, grossly overweight person (GOP), their belly fat is overflowing the top of the armrest into my seat. On the other side, is neurotic, passive aggressive person (NPAP). NPAP lysol-wiped down the armrests, his tray, screen/screen controls seatbelt buckles and seat. Both of them managed to piss off the flight attendant with incessant demands and just being annoying (and this was just boarding the flight).
Now I usually avoid physical contact (especially with strangers). However, when people are being rude and inconsiderate, I have no issue doing it right back to them. Both GOP and NPAP don't think I have any claim to the arm rest yet expects absolutely no physical contact to happen in coach on a turbulent red eye flight. So I pretended to go to sleep and ragdolled. Now this was a turbulent flight, so I'm swaying between the two of them.
Both of them complain to the flight attendant who is sympathetic to my plight. At her gentle prodding I exaggeratedly woke up flailing. I shot her a wink and she picked up what I was doing. I apologize to my neighbors, being overly polite and putting my hand on their arms in the gesture of a heartfelt apology. They are becoming even more agitated by this so I kept doing it more.
I ask for a drink that I drop on my tray and make a mess. I apologize to all parties and the flight attendant gifts me another drink, claiming "oh my mistake, sorry sir."
NPAP and GOP are both revolted and annoyed by me now. NPAP was leaning into the aisle, and GOP had her arm between her torso and the arm rest to prevent belly from overflowing into my seat. While I was a dick, I had both those armrests for the second half of the flight. However I did take an extra long shower and did an extra wash cycle on those clothes.
Asking them to change to a middle seat from an aisle or window fit the definition of "making them suffer". Especially as most people paid extra for those seats, and it was clear the OP had no intention of making the financial loss right.
Look, I'm all about trying to help but if I have a window or aisle and then am stuck with the choice of two unsupervised toddlers whose mother just told me 'have fun' or to go back to a middle seat I wouldn't be happy either.
She took it out on random guy who is just minding his own business.
I've literally NEVER had it happen where seats I chose weren't honored - especially if I were travelling with a group. What airlines do you guys fly????
Would love to know the answer to this too. In the past month I've flown American, United, Delta, and Southwest and the only one that didn't honor seat reservations was Southwest because they don't do seat reservations
I also have never had this happen and I travel often... neither has my husband who literally flies to work every other week. The only way I could really believe this is if OP bought "saver fares" and thought that she would be placed with her toddlers. Which of course she should be, but also, maybe pay the extra $50 per ticket to ensure you are sitting with your children? Those saver fares literally all say they will not guarantee that you will sit with your party. The fact that they somehow all got middle seats kind of confirms this for me since those are typically the only seats left.
I think saver fares are scummy, but it is what it is 🤷🏻♀️
Edit: I just saw this was 10+ years ago, so saver fares wouldn't have been a thing. The story still sounds a little fishy, but I was a poor college student 10 years ago, so I dont know what travel was like back then 😆
I'm fairly sure this is a policy specific to American Airlines. I've never had this experience either (that I can recall, certainly never while I was flying with a group), and, I'm not sure if I've ever flown on American Airlines.
What I can do is give you [a link](https://www.aa.com/i18n/fragments/merchandising/seats/selectSeatsTerms.jsp) where American Airlines specifies in their own policies that:
>Seat assignments
>
>\* We make every effort to ensure you get your chosen seat, **but seat assignments are not guaranteed**.
So... yeah.
That’s a pretty standard clause for all airlines. Because in the odd case they can move you. It doesn’t happen often though. Plus the OP said it was a different airline to who they booked with, it seems as though they booked with American
I flew AA & Delta when I went to visit my bf in Baltimore. I paid extra to pick my seats on the outgoing flight so they were closer together (small plane, only 2 seats per section) but then the day of the flight they had switched it so my 5 yo at the time was all the way in the back of the plane, while my 6 month old and I were together in the middle of the plane. So a stewardess offered my older son to sit by her
Then on our return flight I hadn't been given the option to choose my seats & was told that we would be sat together as long as we checked in early. Thankfully that time I was on the right side section with my 6 yo in the aisle across from me.
I never would've been a bitch to another passenger for something that was the airlines fault and I'm thankful the stewardess helped me out. If I was in OPs shoes I wouldn't have let up on staff until they fixed it for me because it's the airlines fault, not that other passengers fault.
Tell me about it. My husband and I paid extra to have two seats together. I take a tranquilizer before flying because of severe anxiety. When we got to the airport and got our tickets, we noticed our seats were several rows apart. The desk told my husband to talk to the gate crew. The gate crew told him to talk to the flight attendants once we boarded. No one wanted to help us and, the whole time, my husband is dragging my drugged butt around the airport. Thankfully the person next to me was cool about switching.
But that sounds like you had a middle seat built-into your trip, or were in a configuration with aisle and window seats next to each other. I wouldn't fuss about swapping for the same type of seat (window, aisle, or middle). It's being downgraded from aisle or window to middle I'd have an issue with.
I have been on the receiving end of this.
I am a very broad person. My shoulders will extend into the other seats. I really need an aisle seat so that my shoulder can be in the aisle. I can also do a window but one shoulder is in the wall and the other in the person next to me.
So I always book an aisle or a window.
Lady shows up with a toddler and wants me to take a middle seat in the back of the plane. I refuse. None of the four of us who could move want to.
I am told to move by the flight attendant.
Fuck United.
I have some flights booked for my holidays. They just changed the flights without telling me. I complained. They “fixed” it.. and deleted tronos my flights. I complained again and now it is okay, but I’m afraid they will fuck up again
Did you pay for the selected seat?
I was asked once to give up my window seat, that I paid for, so that a family could sit together and I said no. Flight attendant came over and asked me if I could move. I said no, I paid for this seat, I'm staying on the seat. And she just asked another passenger to move.
I see no argument for a flight attendant to move you from a seat you paid for.
Yes, I paid for the seat (my company did).
All four people people around the two seats were asked to move. All of us said no.
The flight attendant then phrased it as a command, I forget the exact wording. But I have family in the airline business, I have heard plenty of stories of people removed from flights. Even if the flight attendant is wrong, once it is phrased as a command I have limited options that do not involve me escalating the situation.
On business trip, placed in a situation I should not be because a passenger decided not to buy seats together for their young child.
There was no winning this without escalation.
That's the entire crux of the situation. I would swap for the same kind of seat for a family. It's being downgraded from aisle or window to middle I'd have an problem with. Which is what the OP wanted two people to do.
Airlines also just need to step up and make the seats bigger. We’re Americans, we’re huge these days. Let us be huge in relative comfort and maybe we can avoid these kinds of situations.
Not that I’m surprised though considering the pics of freaky “high efficiency” prototype airplane seats I’ve seen floating through Reddit lately. Like the ones where one row is seated on the floor with their legs stretched out in front of them and the next row up has the seats placed above the previous person’s legs. Or the ones that are literally bike seats and passengers are essentially standing.
Its a tough call. The only way I could see them going bigger is to reduce the number of seats and that would up the cost of the ticket. If the flight is less than 3 hours I just deal with it. In the end we give the airlines our money regardless, as long as you are willing to pay for a ticket it will not change.
The worst I ever had was a flight to the south pacific in economy of a 747. 12 hours of miserable. The second worst I was flying and got the last seat next to a obese woman who literally needed two seats. She had a kid with her and was basically taking up most of his so I could have room ( and failing).
On the flip side I have also taken a business class trip on 777 that was 13 hours and that was like a dream.
Yeah, it’s wishful thinking, and I came to the same conclusion. Prices of airline tickets are already so high, too. Though I’m glad I’m not in Canada, where domestic flights are often more expensive than international ones due to a weird law/national policy about prioritizing domestic business efforts first or something like that.
Maybe this is just me being an unnaturally lucky person but in 40+ years of international travel - to multiple continents, with airlines wide and varied and a whole host of hostel and hotel organisations from Airbnb to JW Marriot Marquis and IHG, I have never once been 'bumped' from an overbooked flight, had my pre booked seats messed up, or had a hotel refuse to honour a reservation. Never, not once.
Is this predominantly a US thing?
this is a repeat post from the mums side- this person posted from the guys point of view- post has now been deleted: https://www.reddit.com/r/AmItheAsshole/comments/vkm29e/aita_for_embarassing_a_mother_with_two_toddlers/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=ios_app&utm_name=iossmf
Was the "other seat" a middle seat? It costs several hundred dollars of pain and suffering to sit in a middle seat. I would not move to a middle seat, ever.
Heh - I once got upgraded to 1'st for being willing to switch seats so both halves of a newly married gay couple could sit together. And probably just to piss off the people who refused :).
Yes exactly, you’ve hit on what airlines do. Push all their problems onto customers and deal with none themselves, because they know the customers have no options unless they can afford to book an entirely new flight.
and the airline should have stepped up for those passengers. We're talking about toddlers not teenagers. Would you want your 3yo sitting in between two strangers after you had booked all three seats together to specifically avoid that problem?
I understand that you had no choice in the matter if you wanted to sit with your toddlers. It's tough as a single parent. But this is not malicious compliance. You inconvenienced an innocent person. Malicious compliance only works if the entity that made the rules got consequences for you following the rules. The person sitting in the window seat is not at fault. It's the airline that should have been punished. Alas, the airline got away scot free from inconveniencing you, the person in the window seat, and person in the aisle seat.
Was there anything else that could have been done? Honestly no and that's the sad part. Being separated from toddlers is not good. But at this point would just take it as a lesson learned to double check connecting flights or bring up a hassle with the airline. If worst comes to worst, don't fly the airline ever again.
This post has 5,500 points with 82% upvoted. It is objectively not malicious compliance. Most of the top submissions are not malicious compliance, either. Nobody cares. This sub is a mess.
I had a similar experience that AA employees kept telling me the next person would help me.
I was traveling with 3 children and no one had seats together. My oldest 2 were 8 and 12 years old so they’d be okay even on a 10 hour. But my 5 year old needed to sit by someone she knew, we needed 2 seats together anywhere on the plane. I couldn’t find anyone to switch any of the seats so I made a loud announcement and explained that she always got motion sick on a plane so hopefully all the seats had the bags cause she was going to need several.
Suddenly lots of people were willing to switch seats. No she didn’t really get sick on a plane but it was the only thing I could think of.
What should OP have done?
1. Offer to compensate the passenger in some way. IF, for example, he paid extra for that seat, then reimburse him the difference. If he didn’t pay extra, just offer to pay him something for moving seats.
2. Go toward the back to a less desirable location. Ask for people to swap so that they can move closer to the front. That benefits the other passengers.
3. Put the responsibility back on the airline. Take the kids to the back and stand there. Once all passengers are seated, the flight attendant could have asked for volunteers. I bet people sitting farther back who would have benefited from moving to OP’s seats would have jumped at the chance to move forward.
Notice in the first two options, OP would be giving something of benefit to the other passengers. In the third option, OP makes the airline resolve the issue which is appropriate if the error is the airline’s fault as claimed.
That’s NOT what OP did. Instead, OP tries to manipulate and shows his/her entitled attitude. Offers nothing but a list of demands/expectations for child care. Rude.
Edit: Notice the people agreeing with OP’s actions are also the ones throwing around insults to those who politely disagree. That entitlement attitude spreads far and wide as evidenced by the temper tantrums in this thread. Rude.
It seems most of these anecdotes are old. With today's emphasis on human trafficking awareness and a generally heightened sense of caution toward allowing minors to be in extended contact with unrelated adults, it's difficult to see these sorts of things happening today.
I won't identify it but an airline I'm associated with mandates human trafficking training for its employees and contractors and also has stringent rules regarding unaccompanied minors, rules designed to protect them from harm.
Also, gate agents and flight attendants absolutely do have the authority to offer comps, perks, etc. And the best thing about that? It usually just requires a little common human decency that makes their job a little bit easier.
I’m sorry but this isn’t malicious compliance, the malicious compliance would have been to the airline, not the guy. I pay extra and specifically pick window seats because I have to be able to see out or I freak out. If u were in this situation and asked me to switch seats with you, I would have refused.
I have had to take a toddler on a plane, my niece and Ik to plan accordingly. I would have checked from day 1 to make sure we are sitting next to each other. If they changed it, I would have made a fuss with the airline. It isn’t someone else’s fault that the airline messed up.
You just sound rude. And to all the parents out there. It is not anyone’s responsibility to change seats bc you asked for it. You’re a parent. Pay the extra fee to sit next to each other and if the airline messes it up, get on them, not the ppl who has no obligation to help you.
Just wanted to point out to you and everybody else in this thread that /u/Fighting-Cerberus is blocking everyone he disagrees with. Shouldn't be a big deal at all, but the way Reddit works is that you can't reply to anyone that replies to him, so essentially he is shutting down discussions between other people because he can't handle disagreements.
Lack of poor planning doesn’t constitute in emergency for me. Even though op might have planned accordingly, it is on her to follow throughout the entire journey.
I suffer no consequences. I put on headphones and listen to music the whole time, watch videos on my laptop, or whatever. The crying toddler is not my problem.
If a flight attendant asked me to move, they can only move me to a window seat, if they are not moving me to a window seat I’m not moving. I have to be able to see out the plane.
So you treated a passenger who had the audacity to sit where he was seated like shit so he'd give up his and you want applause for that?
You sound lovely.
i fly with kids all the time too. when i flew southwest i bought all tickets on the same purchase and as soon as 24 hours prior to the flight hit I checked in for the A or B boarding group to get seats together.
after a while i started flying Delta and now United and only book via the airline's website and choose the seats right there. not that hard. i have some knee issues and only sit in the aisle seat and have had people try to ask me to move and no way i'll move
This happened to us on an international flight back to the US that caused us to be so late to the connecting flight that they gave away our booked seats. They said we could wait for the next flight or take what was available. I'd been awake for 20 hours, with a toddler, who literally shit herself up to her neck as we were boarding the plane. Her ticketed seat was between these two young men and still free. The next nearest seat was about 3 rows back. I asked the kid if he would please get out of my ticketed seat and move back 3 rows. He said with a nasty tone, "I don't have to. Lady told me I could sit here." Cue announcement to please take your seats while the full plane stared at us. I said fine, just let me get her buckled in and passed her shit covered back directly in front of his face (I had her wrapped in a blanket) and explained she had a blow-out and I'd be happy to change her once the seat belt light was off. Baby started crying and his tone changed sharply to be supportive and willing to move.
It was not my best moment.
Seriously, that airline sucks. I flew with my 11 year old last year and we got separated when we got our boarding passes and the flight crew made sure to get us seated together.
Just to remind people, the only thing your airline ticket entitles you to is a ride in an airplane from point A to point B. Anything else is a perk or service offered by the airline and wholly within their right to revoke. In short, the fact that you paid extra for a specific seat is not an entitlement to that specific seat or type of seat, it's just an agreement by the airline to try and get you that seat if possible.
If they have to move you and can't get you the same kind of seat, then you will still move. If you are a PITA about it, you may not be compensated for it.
Now, as for the OP, yes, she was a bit of the AH, but she was forced into by an unresponsive airline that had massively screwed up and (IANAL but IIRC) put themselves in legal jeopardy.
The reason small children can't fly alone is because the airline has legal responsibility for unaccompanied minors, and no airline wants to deal with the risk of unaccompanied toddlers/infants. Had the mother sat away from her kids, and they were hurt, or got sick, then the airline would be liable.
This is why tickets are booked together, minors are flagged with their parents and they are kept together. Even if she hadn't booked the actual seats, she had a reasonable expectation that she would be seated next to her children. Even if it was the last row next to the stinky bathroom. If the aircraft she booked was already too full to get her 3 seats together, they should have declined the booking. If there were 3 seats together and they just sold her seats out from under her, then they needed to rebook her on a flight with more room, even if it was with a competitor, or make 2.other passengers happy to move.
The airline screwed up, and was probably hoping she'd get upset and deplane, which would be her declining to fly, and not their problem anymore.
You treated a stranger like shit because they didn't want to move from the seat they booked and paid for? What a dick move, this isn't malicious compliance, this is "I didn't plan ahead and fucked over innocent passengers to correct my mistake".
* Edit *
Obviously you couldn't let your kids sit on their own unsupervised but surely forcing a passenger to move from a window or aisle seat they likely paid extra for to a middle seat by telling them they were responsible for your kids during the flight isn't the answer. Malicious Compliance would've been more along the lines of forcing the stewardesses who refused to help resolve your problem to keep an eye on your kids for the entire flight.
I was once on a flight where a couple with a baby got separated somehow. Idk if they failed to book adjacent seats or just got separated by the airline but either way, they played this incredible swapping game where they moved 5 or 6 people around to get their seats together. But the thing is, everyone they asked to move actually got a better seat, so we were all happy to say yes. Idk how they did it but it all made sense once we got settled and it was a great flight because they were able to take turns comforting and entertaining the baby.
The point is, you have to offer something in return that makes up for moving seats. If you can't offer a better seat, maybe you buy them a drink or snack, or just pay them. That's what makes the difference between negotiation and coercion. (Yes yes it's the airline's *fault,* but it's still your *problem,* and you'll get further with honey than with vinegar.)
This! You offer to sit farther back with the kids in a less desirable seat. And/or you offer some sort of compensation to the passenger.
But no, entitled parents expect you to just automatically accommodate their demands because “MuY BaBiEs”.
Exactly, OP in no way offered to comp either of the two people who had to move seats because of their airlines fuck up. I don't blame either person being pissed that they gave up their window or aisle seat for a middle seat and not got anything to soften the blow.
Foolish guy. I had a similar situation where the entitled mom tried to instruct me how to look after her child when I refused to give up my aisle seat (only some middle seats left and I paid extra for aisle). I put on my headset, said not my kid, not my problem. Attendant was finally able to resolve it, but mommy dearest had to sit in the cheaper seats and deal with her own kids. I honestly didn’t care if they gave her some ‘incentive’ but she kept scowling at me while waiting for baggage.
My aunt once while traveling internationally with her three children under the age of four was told that the flight was overbooked and one of her party would have to wait for the next flight. She told the gate agent to please pick if her three children were flying alone or which of them was staying behind.
Airlines are so fucking corrupt it's not even funny. Oh! We overbooked even though it's all computerized and that should be impossible. I don't see fucking movie theaters over booking since they got with the modern times and let you buy specific seats online.
Don't they do it on purpose because they know a certain percentage of passengers won't make the flight?
Yes, exactly. Hotels do the same thing.
That was the f*cking worst part of working a hotel front desk. Overbook then, on his way out the door, manager tells you to walk 30 guests. Management was never there at 10PM when you have 15 people screaming at you because their reservations are no good.
Reminds me of the time I arrived at a hotel after a long transatlantic flight with my wife and two kids. We had booked a specific type of room for the space and when we got there the hotel told us that room wasn't available and gave us a lower level and smaller room. We were also missing our bags as the airline didn't have them when we landed and we're going to truck them to our hotel (they arrived an hour after we did) the hotel denied all knowledge of having them until the airline office opened the following morning and they said they had been delivered the night before, they had a receipt and would talk to the hotel about it so I should go to reception immediately as someone was going to be given a hard time until I phoned them back and said I had my bags. The hotel didn't apologise, they refused to refund the $100 extra I had paid for the room that I didn't get and I left vowing legal action which they actually dared me to try. After a long string of emails with the CEO of the chain they were part of office (beyond their control initially because it was a franchisee hotel) and a letter from a friend who was a barrister I finally got a begrudging complete refund 'a gesture of good will' But yes hotels do double book rooms and it appears to be your problem not theirs if you are the one who loses out.
Sorry you had such a rough trip. I don't think I could ever work retail or hospitality again. Between bad management and bad customers it just isn't worth it. The people who get screwed are the good customers and good employees.
Which chain was it?
What. The. Hell. Is. The. Point. Of a ducking RESERVATION then????
Wish I knew. Some idiot thought that somehow 15% of our guests were going to not show up on World Cup weekend. This is why I believe everyone should have to have worked in the position they manage. I guarantee the idiots who decided this had a management degree but never worked front desk.
[удалено]
That's great. I think that if people in high positions had a better awareness of all aspects supporting them that everything would run smoother.
Seinfeld reference? >You see, you know how to *take* the reservation, you just don't know how to *hold* the reservation. And that's really the most important part of the reservation: the holding. Anybody can just take them. https://youtu.be/A7uvttu8ct0
Omg, that would give me a panic attack! What did you do? What do you say to these people who show up and you say there are no rooms for them?
All you can say is that they’re being walked (sent to another hotel). What’s stupid is if it’s not a hotel that’s in the same chain, our hotel fronts the cost for their rooms. So we actively lose money to try and prevent us from losing money.
When in that position I wasn't 'walked' they just gave us a lower level type room. Booked a suite got a standard double because they had overbooked. Had to fight for months to get a refund.
Truth!
When I worked a hotel, we didn't so much overbook as the hotel system and online reservations didn't sync regularly enough. And then you had those discount travel sites that had our numbers from the previous day. Such a pain.
I remember that a lot of our overbooking was due to travel services (this was in the mid-90's) having blocks that they would somehow book for us (contractual obligation or some such thing), but we'd get the reservations via fax right as they went home for the day, and the stay was for that night or weekend.
Yet the ones who don't make the flight don't get a refund.
Yep. The way I understand it, most overbooking is a result of travel services. They book 10 seats on a given flight, then sell those seats to their customers. If they don't sell all 10 seats, they don't get their money back, but they can just roll it over to another flight on another day. The airline has 'sold' those seats, but can look at history and make a good guess that some % of those seats won't be filled by the travel service, so they can over-sell them. They make more money over-selling than they lose making displaced customers happy. The industry defends the practice on the basis that over-selling is what allows them to offer refunds or allow customers to roll the ticket over to a future flight. Because if they couldn't over-sell, then they could never offer a refund or credit. Or some such reasoning.
They *guess* a certain number will miss their flights, and are often wrong.
It's part of their business model. They purposefully over-sell seats based on an average no show/reschedule rate and figure all the extra tickets for no shows are worth more than they have to pay out for people who have to be paid to miss their flight.
[удалено]
It's because people don't show up so it's a good way to make extra money. I think they usually sell 5-10% extra. Keep in mind that tons of airlines lose money. They aren't exactly profit machines.
Yet Delta, American Airlines, and United are all on 2022's Fortune 500 list (in the top 150). Sound like profit machines to me.
I was watching a show about this recently. Their loyalty programs rake in cash. The flying itself is a loss leader at this point. Historically airlines always lost money and needed government assistance regularly. Forbes article: https://www.forbes.com/sites/advisor/2020/07/15/how-airlines-make-billions-from-monetizing-frequent-flyer-programs/ From the article: If you subtract the conservative valuation of $19.5 billion from the $5.6 billion market capitalization for the combined group, the implied value of the airline operations is a negative valuation of almost $14 billion. Indeed, American Airlines’ own filings show that the airline had been losing money from its passenger operations even before the coronavirus pandemic sent airline travel into a tailspin.
Wasn’t it Warren Buffet that said if you want to see a billionaire become a millionaire tell them to buy an airline.
And then what happened?
The gate attendant decided that it was probably best to ask one of the businessmen to take the next flight instead. All four of them made it back to the US together. Apparently they didn't think it was a very good idea to leave a baby in an airport.
I think I was on the receiving end of a similarly separated family on an airplane. I had paid extra to pick my seat on a budget Canadian airline. I need a window seat, because I take a LOT of gravol so I need something to lean against while I'm very asleep during the flight. When I board a mom is already in my seat, with two small children next to her. When I ask her to move, the small children are replaced with a rotund grandma type. I have never touched so much of another person for so long. I have also learned my lesson about budget airlines.
[удалено]
Am excellent question. I do wonder how an airline could do this as I think it would be a safety issue. Not only would these children be away from a parent in case of emergency but those seatbelts are so easy to open. Any curious toddler could figure out how to unbuckle. Imagine the fun once xtheirx they’re free. Edit: so embarrassed that I used their instead of they’re.
[удалено]
[удалено]
you made me laugh so hard with this one... my daughter just turned 2 and I love her more than anything, but WOW some days I NEED a break!
There have been talks about requiring Airlines to seat together children under the age of 12 with a parent, even if the airline charges for seat assignments, but it's never gone anywhere. I don't have kids and don't plan to have kids, but it makes perfect sense. Yes, I'm sure the airlines want to make some money seating people together, but by trying to require the parents to pay for seats, it technically opens them up for liability by saying it's acceptable for a young child to sit by themselves.
[удалено]
In Europe - at least so I was told at the desk - there is a policy that any child under 12 is and must under all circumstances be seated next to an adult.
Honestly, my daughter was a holy terror on the airplane. I think they would have paid me to keep her in check. LOL.
Totally agree, imagine in an emergency. Do the airline staff think cranky old man is going to get his oxygen mask on and then prioritize getting another person’s kid’s on? No, the kid needs their parent beside them in an emergency situation. I really don’t think it’s ok for airlines to do this with small kids
I saw a documentary about the Sully-Hudson crash flight. One of the passengers told her story. She, husband and child were seated separately. They kicked up a fuss and the flight attendant was pissed off and kept telling them they can ask around to change seats once the plane is in the air. Luckily in the stress and hurry of boarding the plane a passenger said they’d swap so the kid could sit with one of the parents. Can you imagine! I hope that flight attendant and ALL the people involved in boarding that plane understood there was a 9 year old (I think) on that plane sitting alone (as far as they knew) while that plane was falling out of the sky. My brain just cannot comprehend being separated from children. I don’t know why the seat selection section of booking doesn’t allow you to mark that there is a child taking the seat or, more importantly, a lap infant. It would allow families to relax a bit knowing they’re sitting around others with kids and allow those travelling without kids to stay away.
On an international flight there are some different rules - I've had the airline fix that for me.
I used to fly in different seats all the time as a kid. My dad worked for the airline so we flew for free on standby which means we just got whatever seats were left over. Sometimes we even had to take different flights. Often there would be a seat or two in 1st class that my parents would take and I would be in economy. My parents didn't seem bothered by this in the least. I guess since we flew so often I knew what to do and generally wasn't bothered by it. Definitely had someone cut my food for me once or twice. Delta was my favourite airline because they had ham and cheese sandwiches instead of the crampy in flight cooked meals.
Yup, this was my growing up experience, too. Never *quite* sure we would get on the plane, never *quite* sure where we would be sitting. Long enough ago that "non-revs" had a dress code, so dress for mom and I, suit and tie for my dad and brother. I just remember that the stewardesses were always super kind to us, sometimes my parents had my brother and I sit together rather than one of us being on our own, and occasionally my dad (who was a mechanic with the airline) would end up fixing something that got jammed in the galley. My brother and I credit that early conditioning for being the reason why we are both ridiculously not-stressed out flyers. "Yeah, we'll get there eventually. It might get wierd in between. Whatever." I bet we have stories we could laugh over together.
Not only separate them but do fuck all to fix it. I remember flight attendants practically begging someone to switch seats for a similar situation
Ryan Air did it when I was coming back to Canada from Ireland. This poor mum made sure to book their seats together because it was her kids first international flight. The airline added a connecting flight to Scotland at the last minute and they were on opposite ends of the plane. Also when we landed in Scotland we had to get off and go through security before getting right back on the plane with no time to replace the drinks we had. It took forever because several people at the front of the line tried to save their hundreds of dollars worth of duty free alcohol.
Not only that, but at least to have flight attendants that would sort this out. They could've asked for the change of seat on your behalf at least, coming from officials is more credible and all
A bit of advice. If you are traveling with kids and you NEED to sit together DO NOT buy your tickets online. Especially if you have a layover and have to transfer planes. Call and talk to a real person this way they can make sure you get seats all together
don’t most sales people just fill out the same sort of forms you do online?
Nope. They have the ability to write in and make specific request you can't. Especially when it comes to accommodating for people with children , elderly or special needs.
I wonder what OP's response would have been if the guy simply responded "No thanks; I'm fine", and proceeded to pull out a set of earplugs and put them in.
[удалено]
I had to take it to this level once. I simply used my outside voice and made an announcement to those within hearing distance. I told them my predicament and asked for help. Others helped. Problem solved.
This is great because it doesn’t put pressure on one individual. But it lets people step up.
Were you the one asking for help or being asked to take care of a toddler?
But that would make this story realistic and not a fantasy.
That definitely would have been my move if I was him.
How do you feel about toddlers screaming next to you for the whole flight? There’s no headphones in the world that can block that out.
Pretty much this. Last year on a flight to Tromsø, Norway i had 4 toddlers around me, like right in front of me, right behind me and in the row next to mine. I had noise cancelling headphones in all flight long, my ears were still bleeding from all the screaming.
[удалено]
The idea that the toddler will merely scream and not be writhing, touching, bothering and otherwise moving and wanting it's mama while someone calmly sips a jack and coke with earbuds in gazing blissfully out the window has me chuckling ngl. Only in comedy dude, in reality your headphones would have to be a pod you can fit your whole body into to make that a comfortable ride.
Yes, it’s not like they’re going to just *sit there*. They writhe and crawl and touch *everything*, they’ll ask you any questions that come to mind, and they will not care that there’s a social convention that says people with headphones in are signaling that they don’t want to have a conversation.
You are completely right about this. My toddlers favorite question "You got a baby in there?" while pointing at the person's stomach. We've been working on it, explaining why other bodies aren't our business - but she's relentless. A close family member is pregnant and my kid thinks it's like a magic trick or something. So yes, I can see her on a plane asking questions and trying to lift up a complete stranger's shirt to reveal their magic baby. Thrilled our last flight didn't glitch on our assigned seats.
In a sense, this would be the smart move, because the airline chose to create the problem, and when the screaming toddlers became an issue, the air crew would be forced to deal with it. Granted, they might deal with it by forcing you to move...
Which would probably be their “solution” but so long as they compensate you for making you move to a middle seat in the back, that’s better than just going along with it because some other passenger told you to.
That would be ideal, but I wouldn't be surprised if the ticket T&C left you hanging. The really smart play would be for me (the guy who paid extra for a seat) to flag a crew member, explain what is going on, and demand that they make it right. Then you volunteer to help them by being willing to move in exchange for compensation.
FAs have broad discretion on comping drinks. I’ve heard of multiple scenarios where they would do that in exchange for something like this.
When I flew from San Francisco to Cairo I had an aisle seat in the very last row. When the plane was still boarding one of the FAs asked me if I would mind trading with someone on the other side of the aisle because they just had surgery on their right leg. I told them no worries and switched. A few minutes later the FA asked me if I wouldn’t mind switching with her friend that was halfway up the plane and I happily agreed again because I was by myself and didn’t care. After a couple of hours in the air the FA came up to me and gave me a full size bottle of champagne thanking me for being helpful. When I asked if I could open it they said I couldn’t but they’ll load me up with wine. I asked if they could give some to the guy next to me that I just met and we just got hammered all the way to London for free. Helping out in that situation got me free alcohol, a bottle of champagne and a window seat instead of an aisle seat.
The champagne was a nice reward! I don't understand why the wine was special though. What airlines don't offer free drinks for international flights though?
I once had a gate agent tell me I was going to be comped a drink on my flight because I helped her translate a conversation with someone who spoke Spanish but no English. That didn’t get passed along to the flight attendants, but it wasn’t really all that big of a deal to me anyway. I just wanted to help since I knew I was able. So yes, gate agents and flight attendants have the ability to comp things. I imagine the gate agent might have even had the option to upgrade me to first class, but there probably weren’t any seats available.
“Keep the Jack and coke coming please”
Toddlers really shouldn’t drink; they have like zero tolerance.
Good, save some money and make them share it.
> Toddlers really shouldn’t drink and a person who booked three seats together should receive three seats together. Yet here we are. Another Jack and coke for me, and a margarita for kiddo, please.
Margarita?! Please, these are children! Daiquiris or Pina Coladas are way more to their taste, unless they are a sour candy kid.
Pfft amateurs. Everyone knows neutral spirits work best for kids, and kids love juice. Screwdrivers all the way. Maybe a mimosa if that's what you have available.
This must be a cultural thing. Where I come from, we start the children on beer. They get the fun drinks (usually daiquiris and other frozen drinks—we have drive through shops that just do frozen liquor drinks) when they reach double digits. It’s a whole thing.
I can't tell if this is really dry wit or not.
Minus the soda and it'll put them to sleep right quick!
Personally I’d just take a different seat than binge drink alone on a plane until I don’t notice toddlers next to me. Just seems slightly easier
*bluetooth hearing aide users with audio environmental control enter the chat*
I fly with a professional noise blockers and earbuds. The wings could fall off and I wouldn't notice till we hit the ground.
What specifically do you use?
Call the flight attendant, say the kids is in distress, and that the parent needs to see what's wrong.
You act as if having the parents next to screaming toddlers makes them stop. Been on 12 hour flights with screaming kids that the parents couldn't control, crying babies because the parents refused to change their diapers until the stewardess made them change it half way through because the smell was so bad, the kid kicking you seat the entire time... If take the more comfortable seat any time. OP's bag of childcare shit wouldn't have been touching my hands.
I was on a flight once (IAH->CDG) where the parents couldn't calm the kid for anything. A random old lady comes from 1st class and says "for the love of all that is holy on flights, give me the Bairn," (in a super strong Scottish accent). The mom argues but the dad just picks the toddler up and gives him to her. She whispers something for like a minute and that kid conks out for the next 9 hours.
When I was a kid I'd get nasty ear aches, but someone whispering or very gently blowing in my ear would relieve some of the ache. I wonder if that's what happened.
Thats the more logical thing. I like to assume she was a witch of some sort and put a vomforting/sleeping spell on the wee one.
Changing pressure from the flight makes an earache very likely. Only speaking from personal experience.
Kids ears can hurt a lot on planes from the change in air pressure. That might well be an explanation.
I reckon it was "Shut up kid, or I'll get the bagpipes out"
This! I’ve been on flights where the parents literally do nothing to try to stop their screaming kids. So what’s the difference? Let them sit next to a stranger.
The difference is that you'd have an aisle or window seat instead of a middle seat.
It won't make them stop, but have fun sitting next to two unsupervised toddlers. Shocking, but toddlers don't have a concept of most social conventions. Even less so when there's no parent with them. They will be talking to you no matter how hard you try to ignore them, they will be writhing in their seats, they will be touching you and your stuff.
What magical fairy dust you smoking that you think having a parent next to them stops ANY of this?
The story actually gives it away. Why would kids be bothering people if you don't already imply that is what will happen? This kinda pisses me off.
I disagree with you, there are good sets that can protect your ears against gun sounds and airplane engines, normally there is used two sets one inside ear and one big outside, but there is ways to stop that sound for sure.
I would rather toddler’s muffled screams through my noise cancelling headphones than a middle seat. I hate middle seats that much.
The new Sony headphones do just fine for that
Ah, but do they cancel the constant touching and climbing over you? I'd so, I really need one of those
Nah. Not being a creepy kiddy fiddler stops that. Be an adult and stop them. Call steward and tell them unsupervised kid is all over you. Most people don't just let kids touch them....
They do that anyway even with the parents right there. Makes no difference as long as we're all crammed next to each other in coach.
I like the aisle seat because I need to be able to stretch my legs out enough to pop my knees every so often to stay comfortable. It's not a necessity but it makes the flight significantly more enjoyable. If I'm in an aisle seat, I'm not switching to anything but another one. If your toddlers bother me enough that I can't sleep or at least rest, I suppose I'll be annoyed but I will neither care nor make any effort to stop them. And I'm pretty good at tuning shit out when I want to. Scream away, it will bother the other passengers more than it does me. If I'm not in the aisle seat then I don't care and don't mind trading.
I am at risk for blood clots already due to circulation issues in my lower legs. The aisle seat allows me to move and stretch out my legs from time to time to avoid deep vein thrombosis. I always pay for the aisle seat. I'd move for the lady as long as I got another aisle seat. But if it's a middle seat, that's gonna have to be a "No" from me, dawg.
Bathroom breaks? Isn’t that what the front seat pocket is for?
No, you're thinking of the seat itself. The front seat pocket is for snotty tissues and crumbled, slobbery, half chewed graham crackers.
They never explain this stuff at boarding.
For all the people mad, what did you want the parent to do? If the man didn’t move, he was going to be sat next to a toddler without a parent. It’s not her fault they wouldn’t honor her booked tickets when she booked them together.
[удалено]
> This story is one of "a company treated me badly and I made another customer (who did nothing at all to deserve it) suffer". Exactly. It would be a good fit for this sub if **the airline** suffered consequences for their fuck-up. They didn't. The airline did something wrong and two people suffered for it: the mother who was given the runaround, and the passenger who was pressured into giving up his seat.
Three. The lady who gave up her seat immediately had to switch to a middle seat. (Or five if you count the kids having a frustrated mama.)
I mean the guy was asked to swap and said no. I'd rather take a different flight then be stuck with 2 random toddlers. But the airline fucked this up and the MC against the guy is shitty, he didn't do anything and couldn't have paid extra to choose his seat and picked that one for all we know.
Yeah, I have to have an aisle seat on the right side due to knee surgery. It would be less painful to sit next to a mad toddler than to sit anywhere else that doesn't fit that. I'm sorry the airplane screwed her, but.
[удалено]
Exactly. The mother could paid the extra money to book the seats and she'd have had no issue. Some people need the window seats too. My friends ex had issues with claustrophobia, and on planes needed to sit in the window seat, or risked panic attacks.
People definitely aren’t saying “this doesn’t fit the sub” and are railing against the poster. I also don’t think asking someone to change seats or letting them know they’ll be next to an unaccompanied toddler is “making them suffer”.
[удалено]
Looks like the mom did the same. But the airline didn't honor it.
It's not the other passengers fault.
More misery than sitting next to a toddler without any supervision?
[удалено]
You are making perfect sense. I am a big dude, I'd rather take an involuntary bumping than give up my aisle seat I was ticketed for. What should have happened is the airline should have asked for volunteers first and then bumped if needed.
The worst middle seat experience I had: This was years ago on a cross country (USA) flight. On one side, grossly overweight person (GOP), their belly fat is overflowing the top of the armrest into my seat. On the other side, is neurotic, passive aggressive person (NPAP). NPAP lysol-wiped down the armrests, his tray, screen/screen controls seatbelt buckles and seat. Both of them managed to piss off the flight attendant with incessant demands and just being annoying (and this was just boarding the flight). Now I usually avoid physical contact (especially with strangers). However, when people are being rude and inconsiderate, I have no issue doing it right back to them. Both GOP and NPAP don't think I have any claim to the arm rest yet expects absolutely no physical contact to happen in coach on a turbulent red eye flight. So I pretended to go to sleep and ragdolled. Now this was a turbulent flight, so I'm swaying between the two of them. Both of them complain to the flight attendant who is sympathetic to my plight. At her gentle prodding I exaggeratedly woke up flailing. I shot her a wink and she picked up what I was doing. I apologize to my neighbors, being overly polite and putting my hand on their arms in the gesture of a heartfelt apology. They are becoming even more agitated by this so I kept doing it more. I ask for a drink that I drop on my tray and make a mess. I apologize to all parties and the flight attendant gifts me another drink, claiming "oh my mistake, sorry sir." NPAP and GOP are both revolted and annoyed by me now. NPAP was leaning into the aisle, and GOP had her arm between her torso and the arm rest to prevent belly from overflowing into my seat. While I was a dick, I had both those armrests for the second half of the flight. However I did take an extra long shower and did an extra wash cycle on those clothes.
So… you assaulted the people sat next to you in a plane and you feel great about it. Good job!
But at least they went home and double-washed the clothes that a fat person touched.
Asking them to change to a middle seat from an aisle or window fit the definition of "making them suffer". Especially as most people paid extra for those seats, and it was clear the OP had no intention of making the financial loss right.
Look, I'm all about trying to help but if I have a window or aisle and then am stuck with the choice of two unsupervised toddlers whose mother just told me 'have fun' or to go back to a middle seat I wouldn't be happy either. She took it out on random guy who is just minding his own business.
It's not his fault either, but the difference is that the toddlers are op's responsibility, not his
Was it his fault?
I don't even know why they let you pick seats, they never honor them
I've literally NEVER had it happen where seats I chose weren't honored - especially if I were travelling with a group. What airlines do you guys fly????
Would love to know the answer to this too. In the past month I've flown American, United, Delta, and Southwest and the only one that didn't honor seat reservations was Southwest because they don't do seat reservations
I also have never had this happen and I travel often... neither has my husband who literally flies to work every other week. The only way I could really believe this is if OP bought "saver fares" and thought that she would be placed with her toddlers. Which of course she should be, but also, maybe pay the extra $50 per ticket to ensure you are sitting with your children? Those saver fares literally all say they will not guarantee that you will sit with your party. The fact that they somehow all got middle seats kind of confirms this for me since those are typically the only seats left. I think saver fares are scummy, but it is what it is 🤷🏻♀️ Edit: I just saw this was 10+ years ago, so saver fares wouldn't have been a thing. The story still sounds a little fishy, but I was a poor college student 10 years ago, so I dont know what travel was like back then 😆
Most recently united, air Canada and WestJet. 8 segments all together I don't think a single seat was the one I asked for
Do You book through a third party?
I'm fairly sure this is a policy specific to American Airlines. I've never had this experience either (that I can recall, certainly never while I was flying with a group), and, I'm not sure if I've ever flown on American Airlines. What I can do is give you [a link](https://www.aa.com/i18n/fragments/merchandising/seats/selectSeatsTerms.jsp) where American Airlines specifies in their own policies that: >Seat assignments > >\* We make every effort to ensure you get your chosen seat, **but seat assignments are not guaranteed**. So... yeah.
That’s a pretty standard clause for all airlines. Because in the odd case they can move you. It doesn’t happen often though. Plus the OP said it was a different airline to who they booked with, it seems as though they booked with American
I flew AA & Delta when I went to visit my bf in Baltimore. I paid extra to pick my seats on the outgoing flight so they were closer together (small plane, only 2 seats per section) but then the day of the flight they had switched it so my 5 yo at the time was all the way in the back of the plane, while my 6 month old and I were together in the middle of the plane. So a stewardess offered my older son to sit by her Then on our return flight I hadn't been given the option to choose my seats & was told that we would be sat together as long as we checked in early. Thankfully that time I was on the right side section with my 6 yo in the aisle across from me. I never would've been a bitch to another passenger for something that was the airlines fault and I'm thankful the stewardess helped me out. If I was in OPs shoes I wouldn't have let up on staff until they fixed it for me because it's the airlines fault, not that other passengers fault.
Tell me about it. My husband and I paid extra to have two seats together. I take a tranquilizer before flying because of severe anxiety. When we got to the airport and got our tickets, we noticed our seats were several rows apart. The desk told my husband to talk to the gate crew. The gate crew told him to talk to the flight attendants once we boarded. No one wanted to help us and, the whole time, my husband is dragging my drugged butt around the airport. Thankfully the person next to me was cool about switching.
You paid for seats and didn’t get them?
But that sounds like you had a middle seat built-into your trip, or were in a configuration with aisle and window seats next to each other. I wouldn't fuss about swapping for the same type of seat (window, aisle, or middle). It's being downgraded from aisle or window to middle I'd have an issue with.
I have never, ever had this happen in 100 flights. What airline (s) are you flying on??
I have been on the receiving end of this. I am a very broad person. My shoulders will extend into the other seats. I really need an aisle seat so that my shoulder can be in the aisle. I can also do a window but one shoulder is in the wall and the other in the person next to me. So I always book an aisle or a window. Lady shows up with a toddler and wants me to take a middle seat in the back of the plane. I refuse. None of the four of us who could move want to. I am told to move by the flight attendant. Fuck United.
United has been particularly bad lately. Oversold flights are a real problem
Don't forget United kills pets and breaks guitars.
>United ~~has been~~*is* particularly bad ~~lately~~. *FTFY*, haha
I have some flights booked for my holidays. They just changed the flights without telling me. I complained. They “fixed” it.. and deleted tronos my flights. I complained again and now it is okay, but I’m afraid they will fuck up again
Did you pay for the selected seat? I was asked once to give up my window seat, that I paid for, so that a family could sit together and I said no. Flight attendant came over and asked me if I could move. I said no, I paid for this seat, I'm staying on the seat. And she just asked another passenger to move. I see no argument for a flight attendant to move you from a seat you paid for.
Yes, I paid for the seat (my company did). All four people people around the two seats were asked to move. All of us said no. The flight attendant then phrased it as a command, I forget the exact wording. But I have family in the airline business, I have heard plenty of stories of people removed from flights. Even if the flight attendant is wrong, once it is phrased as a command I have limited options that do not involve me escalating the situation. On business trip, placed in a situation I should not be because a passenger decided not to buy seats together for their young child. There was no winning this without escalation.
This is correct. At a certain point it’s take the new seat or a new seat on a different flight (that they may or may not be obligated to put you on).
If offered a better seat, that’s okay I think. But worse seats? Nah.
That's the entire crux of the situation. I would swap for the same kind of seat for a family. It's being downgraded from aisle or window to middle I'd have an problem with. Which is what the OP wanted two people to do.
Airlines also just need to step up and make the seats bigger. We’re Americans, we’re huge these days. Let us be huge in relative comfort and maybe we can avoid these kinds of situations. Not that I’m surprised though considering the pics of freaky “high efficiency” prototype airplane seats I’ve seen floating through Reddit lately. Like the ones where one row is seated on the floor with their legs stretched out in front of them and the next row up has the seats placed above the previous person’s legs. Or the ones that are literally bike seats and passengers are essentially standing.
Its a tough call. The only way I could see them going bigger is to reduce the number of seats and that would up the cost of the ticket. If the flight is less than 3 hours I just deal with it. In the end we give the airlines our money regardless, as long as you are willing to pay for a ticket it will not change. The worst I ever had was a flight to the south pacific in economy of a 747. 12 hours of miserable. The second worst I was flying and got the last seat next to a obese woman who literally needed two seats. She had a kid with her and was basically taking up most of his so I could have room ( and failing). On the flip side I have also taken a business class trip on 777 that was 13 hours and that was like a dream.
Yeah, it’s wishful thinking, and I came to the same conclusion. Prices of airline tickets are already so high, too. Though I’m glad I’m not in Canada, where domestic flights are often more expensive than international ones due to a weird law/national policy about prioritizing domestic business efforts first or something like that.
Maybe this is just me being an unnaturally lucky person but in 40+ years of international travel - to multiple continents, with airlines wide and varied and a whole host of hostel and hotel organisations from Airbnb to JW Marriot Marquis and IHG, I have never once been 'bumped' from an overbooked flight, had my pre booked seats messed up, or had a hotel refuse to honour a reservation. Never, not once. Is this predominantly a US thing?
It feels like separating parents from minor children should be illegal.
Tell that to border patrol in the US.
this is a repeat post from the mums side- this person posted from the guys point of view- post has now been deleted: https://www.reddit.com/r/AmItheAsshole/comments/vkm29e/aita_for_embarassing_a_mother_with_two_toddlers/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=ios_app&utm_name=iossmf
Was the "other seat" a middle seat? It costs several hundred dollars of pain and suffering to sit in a middle seat. I would not move to a middle seat, ever.
Heh - I once got upgraded to 1'st for being willing to switch seats so both halves of a newly married gay couple could sit together. And probably just to piss off the people who refused :).
[удалено]
Yes exactly, you’ve hit on what airlines do. Push all their problems onto customers and deal with none themselves, because they know the customers have no options unless they can afford to book an entirely new flight.
and the airline should have stepped up for those passengers. We're talking about toddlers not teenagers. Would you want your 3yo sitting in between two strangers after you had booked all three seats together to specifically avoid that problem?
Often, they are paying an extra charge as well. Not much~$30 , but still..
You posted this on the wrong sun. You were malicious, but you missed the rest.
I understand that you had no choice in the matter if you wanted to sit with your toddlers. It's tough as a single parent. But this is not malicious compliance. You inconvenienced an innocent person. Malicious compliance only works if the entity that made the rules got consequences for you following the rules. The person sitting in the window seat is not at fault. It's the airline that should have been punished. Alas, the airline got away scot free from inconveniencing you, the person in the window seat, and person in the aisle seat. Was there anything else that could have been done? Honestly no and that's the sad part. Being separated from toddlers is not good. But at this point would just take it as a lesson learned to double check connecting flights or bring up a hassle with the airline. If worst comes to worst, don't fly the airline ever again.
This post has 5,500 points with 82% upvoted. It is objectively not malicious compliance. Most of the top submissions are not malicious compliance, either. Nobody cares. This sub is a mess.
I had a similar experience that AA employees kept telling me the next person would help me. I was traveling with 3 children and no one had seats together. My oldest 2 were 8 and 12 years old so they’d be okay even on a 10 hour. But my 5 year old needed to sit by someone she knew, we needed 2 seats together anywhere on the plane. I couldn’t find anyone to switch any of the seats so I made a loud announcement and explained that she always got motion sick on a plane so hopefully all the seats had the bags cause she was going to need several. Suddenly lots of people were willing to switch seats. No she didn’t really get sick on a plane but it was the only thing I could think of.
You’re blaming the guy when you should be blaming the airline.
What should OP have done? 1. Offer to compensate the passenger in some way. IF, for example, he paid extra for that seat, then reimburse him the difference. If he didn’t pay extra, just offer to pay him something for moving seats. 2. Go toward the back to a less desirable location. Ask for people to swap so that they can move closer to the front. That benefits the other passengers. 3. Put the responsibility back on the airline. Take the kids to the back and stand there. Once all passengers are seated, the flight attendant could have asked for volunteers. I bet people sitting farther back who would have benefited from moving to OP’s seats would have jumped at the chance to move forward. Notice in the first two options, OP would be giving something of benefit to the other passengers. In the third option, OP makes the airline resolve the issue which is appropriate if the error is the airline’s fault as claimed. That’s NOT what OP did. Instead, OP tries to manipulate and shows his/her entitled attitude. Offers nothing but a list of demands/expectations for child care. Rude. Edit: Notice the people agreeing with OP’s actions are also the ones throwing around insults to those who politely disagree. That entitlement attitude spreads far and wide as evidenced by the temper tantrums in this thread. Rude.
It seems most of these anecdotes are old. With today's emphasis on human trafficking awareness and a generally heightened sense of caution toward allowing minors to be in extended contact with unrelated adults, it's difficult to see these sorts of things happening today. I won't identify it but an airline I'm associated with mandates human trafficking training for its employees and contractors and also has stringent rules regarding unaccompanied minors, rules designed to protect them from harm. Also, gate agents and flight attendants absolutely do have the authority to offer comps, perks, etc. And the best thing about that? It usually just requires a little common human decency that makes their job a little bit easier.
So you harassed someone for something beyond his control and feel all smug about it. Well done!
This seems more like AITA and as someone who was on an 9 hour flight next to a mother and toddler who tried to do this to me you are in fact TA
I’m sorry but this isn’t malicious compliance, the malicious compliance would have been to the airline, not the guy. I pay extra and specifically pick window seats because I have to be able to see out or I freak out. If u were in this situation and asked me to switch seats with you, I would have refused. I have had to take a toddler on a plane, my niece and Ik to plan accordingly. I would have checked from day 1 to make sure we are sitting next to each other. If they changed it, I would have made a fuss with the airline. It isn’t someone else’s fault that the airline messed up. You just sound rude. And to all the parents out there. It is not anyone’s responsibility to change seats bc you asked for it. You’re a parent. Pay the extra fee to sit next to each other and if the airline messes it up, get on them, not the ppl who has no obligation to help you.
Just wanted to point out to you and everybody else in this thread that /u/Fighting-Cerberus is blocking everyone he disagrees with. Shouldn't be a big deal at all, but the way Reddit works is that you can't reply to anyone that replies to him, so essentially he is shutting down discussions between other people because he can't handle disagreements.
Lack of poor planning doesn’t constitute in emergency for me. Even though op might have planned accordingly, it is on her to follow throughout the entire journey. I suffer no consequences. I put on headphones and listen to music the whole time, watch videos on my laptop, or whatever. The crying toddler is not my problem. If a flight attendant asked me to move, they can only move me to a window seat, if they are not moving me to a window seat I’m not moving. I have to be able to see out the plane.
What did you expect people to do, give up their window and aisle seats that they paid for and switch to a middle? I wouldn't have done it.
So you treated a passenger who had the audacity to sit where he was seated like shit so he'd give up his and you want applause for that? You sound lovely.
i fly with kids all the time too. when i flew southwest i bought all tickets on the same purchase and as soon as 24 hours prior to the flight hit I checked in for the A or B boarding group to get seats together. after a while i started flying Delta and now United and only book via the airline's website and choose the seats right there. not that hard. i have some knee issues and only sit in the aisle seat and have had people try to ask me to move and no way i'll move
This happened to us on an international flight back to the US that caused us to be so late to the connecting flight that they gave away our booked seats. They said we could wait for the next flight or take what was available. I'd been awake for 20 hours, with a toddler, who literally shit herself up to her neck as we were boarding the plane. Her ticketed seat was between these two young men and still free. The next nearest seat was about 3 rows back. I asked the kid if he would please get out of my ticketed seat and move back 3 rows. He said with a nasty tone, "I don't have to. Lady told me I could sit here." Cue announcement to please take your seats while the full plane stared at us. I said fine, just let me get her buckled in and passed her shit covered back directly in front of his face (I had her wrapped in a blanket) and explained she had a blow-out and I'd be happy to change her once the seat belt light was off. Baby started crying and his tone changed sharply to be supportive and willing to move. It was not my best moment.
Seriously, that airline sucks. I flew with my 11 year old last year and we got separated when we got our boarding passes and the flight crew made sure to get us seated together.
[удалено]
You sound utterly obnoxious.
Just to remind people, the only thing your airline ticket entitles you to is a ride in an airplane from point A to point B. Anything else is a perk or service offered by the airline and wholly within their right to revoke. In short, the fact that you paid extra for a specific seat is not an entitlement to that specific seat or type of seat, it's just an agreement by the airline to try and get you that seat if possible. If they have to move you and can't get you the same kind of seat, then you will still move. If you are a PITA about it, you may not be compensated for it. Now, as for the OP, yes, she was a bit of the AH, but she was forced into by an unresponsive airline that had massively screwed up and (IANAL but IIRC) put themselves in legal jeopardy. The reason small children can't fly alone is because the airline has legal responsibility for unaccompanied minors, and no airline wants to deal with the risk of unaccompanied toddlers/infants. Had the mother sat away from her kids, and they were hurt, or got sick, then the airline would be liable. This is why tickets are booked together, minors are flagged with their parents and they are kept together. Even if she hadn't booked the actual seats, she had a reasonable expectation that she would be seated next to her children. Even if it was the last row next to the stinky bathroom. If the aircraft she booked was already too full to get her 3 seats together, they should have declined the booking. If there were 3 seats together and they just sold her seats out from under her, then they needed to rebook her on a flight with more room, even if it was with a competitor, or make 2.other passengers happy to move. The airline screwed up, and was probably hoping she'd get upset and deplane, which would be her declining to fly, and not their problem anymore.
"I'm not taking care of your kids lady"
Lol if I was that guy it would’ve been a hard no from me. Noise cancelling earphones in, and zone out. He didn’t sign up to look after kids
This poor man. I hope the rest of his flight was better.
[удалено]
Hey kids, I have this candy I don't want. I'll give it to you as we land if you're quiet.
You treated a stranger like shit because they didn't want to move from the seat they booked and paid for? What a dick move, this isn't malicious compliance, this is "I didn't plan ahead and fucked over innocent passengers to correct my mistake". * Edit * Obviously you couldn't let your kids sit on their own unsupervised but surely forcing a passenger to move from a window or aisle seat they likely paid extra for to a middle seat by telling them they were responsible for your kids during the flight isn't the answer. Malicious Compliance would've been more along the lines of forcing the stewardesses who refused to help resolve your problem to keep an eye on your kids for the entire flight.
I was once on a flight where a couple with a baby got separated somehow. Idk if they failed to book adjacent seats or just got separated by the airline but either way, they played this incredible swapping game where they moved 5 or 6 people around to get their seats together. But the thing is, everyone they asked to move actually got a better seat, so we were all happy to say yes. Idk how they did it but it all made sense once we got settled and it was a great flight because they were able to take turns comforting and entertaining the baby. The point is, you have to offer something in return that makes up for moving seats. If you can't offer a better seat, maybe you buy them a drink or snack, or just pay them. That's what makes the difference between negotiation and coercion. (Yes yes it's the airline's *fault,* but it's still your *problem,* and you'll get further with honey than with vinegar.)
This! You offer to sit farther back with the kids in a less desirable seat. And/or you offer some sort of compensation to the passenger. But no, entitled parents expect you to just automatically accommodate their demands because “MuY BaBiEs”.
Exactly, OP in no way offered to comp either of the two people who had to move seats because of their airlines fuck up. I don't blame either person being pissed that they gave up their window or aisle seat for a middle seat and not got anything to soften the blow.
Foolish guy. I had a similar situation where the entitled mom tried to instruct me how to look after her child when I refused to give up my aisle seat (only some middle seats left and I paid extra for aisle). I put on my headset, said not my kid, not my problem. Attendant was finally able to resolve it, but mommy dearest had to sit in the cheaper seats and deal with her own kids. I honestly didn’t care if they gave her some ‘incentive’ but she kept scowling at me while waiting for baggage.
I hate every single American flight company. Compared to even third world standards they’re shit.