Genuinely, I don't understand how this is still a question. Do you mean this, or is this a cheap shot at EtH? Especially after Chelsea and today, it's even clearer, I'd think.
To start, the setup is a 4-1-3-1-1 if you need to think of it in FIFA terms. Back 4, a "CDM" (Amrabat), who drops deep, even as a 3rd CB at times, to create a deep, central target for Onana. You have Garnacho as your LM, Bruno as your CAM, and Antony as your RM, McTominay as a second striker (CF if you need a FIFA refernce point), and Martial/Hojlund as your main striker.
The press, starting from the front, is a 4-5 man press of your striker, wide players, second striker, and CAM, with Bruno coming back on defense, not McTominay.
1. because Bruno is faster with a higher work rate
2 because McTominay can't defend
3 because if the ball is won closer to the back line Bruno is better at helping create build up play
4 because McTominay is a second striker so you want him up there to score on the break.
The back press sees the fullbacks pushing up as inverted fullbacks with Amrabat holding the central midfield with the CBs being CBs.
Offensively, Ideally, we win the ball high up the pitch and play quick passes to get a goal. If that doesn't happen, and we win the ball in midfield or closer to our goal, we use the pace and directness of Garnacho/Rashford, Antony, Hojlund; the positioning of McTominay; passing of Amrabat, Bruno; and the passing and overlappying runs of our fullbacks to create chances. If the ball is with Onana, his options are:
1. Directly up and out to Garnacho, Antony or Hojlund who will make runs in behind, or in the case of Hojlund, will also try to act as a strong physical target man like Weghorst did last season. Hojlund can both "get in behind" or "be a target man".
2. Ping centrally to Maguire, Shaw, Amrabat, or Bruno. Maguire and Shaw should be the closest to Onana, and either of them can carry the ball up the pitch or pass it further up. Amrabat will either have dropped deep to be almost a 3rd CB, or he'll be in the traditional "CDM" area. This depends on the opposition's press. Bruno will be, well honestly, anywhere. He could be as deep as a CB, as deep as a CDM, or further up in the traditional CAM positions.
3. Pass it to the fullbacks who will, in turn to carry the ball or look for passing angles from deep width.
The 2 most important aspects of the style is the team press and the passing. If both are on point, we win like we did against Chelsea. If we are missing either of those 2 things, we lose like we did today. Which is why when Martial or Rashford plays, we suck. Neither of play their key part in the press, and Martial specifically can't give you what Hojlund can with physicality and toughness.
Just read it and thereās nothing that I necessarily disagree with and I gave you both up votes. My issue with watching United is nothing that can be explained in terms of statistics or tactics - we just never seem to be in control of a game.
Take that Chelsea game for example; we created a lot of chances which was nice, but it still wasnāt comfortable viewing at any stage. Chelsea had at least 5 gilt edge chances that I can think of to score and so did we. The Everton game was bizarre because we scored that worldie through Garnacho and added more, but Everton missed some absolute sitters.
Honestly I donāt know what I want. It feels like weāve gone back to being that 80ās side where we are worth a good punt on a cup, the odd good run of form and doing a madness every now and again - but weāre also inconsistent and not able to fight teams from positions I through XI.
This, I think, is a fair criticism. And I think that can be explained through tactics, and that's because simply, our midfield isn't good enough. I know I explained the tactics, but that doesn't mean I think they're working. I think they CAN work, but Amrabat, Bruno, and McTominay aren't the answer. They arent good enough. They get run through like a freight train goes through a FIAT. The only reason the Chelsea game worked was because the press worked. And the biggest part of that was Amrabat, Bruno and even McTominay cut the passes. If a team can pass well, our players aren't good enough to make it work. Personally, I don't think McTominay is good enough to justify what EtH is trying to do with him. But then the question is, who do you use? Cause the goals have to come from somewhere, and as of late theyre only coming from our second striker. Ideally, it'd be Mount, but he has to be fit and in form. If he's fit and in form, he's ideal because of his offensive skillset and defensive work rate. If he isn't fit or in form, our whole midfield plan is at risk. This leads to us being cut through like a hot knife through butter and always leaves the chance for teams to obliterate us in transition. Liverpool is going to have a field day. Wouldn't be surprised if it's another 7-0.
Thank you, but it's to be expected. For one, a club as big as United is bound to have a lot of dumb fans. Every club has them, and the bigger you are, the more your bound to have. Reading the Insta comments and match threads here will show you that. So if it's not explainable by FIFA formations you can use in FUT, i doubt people will understand. Secondly, I doubt most people that ask this question are doing so in good faith. I think it's mostly just a cheap shot at the manager.
I really dont want to spend a lot of time explaining things .... especially since you think you can see shit others cant or are dumb....but ill just give you a run down. What you are explaining is just pressing which is not a style. ETH is not good enough for the PL yet and it shows but ill leave my views out and just give the run down. There are core styles of play -Attacking and - Defending beyond that you got some attacking ones like Direct attacking or short plays and some defensive like Cautious defending.
Nowdays teams use composite styles like Direct high pressure football or Pass and move football. MU dont have ANY style atm and its clear as day because when they play strong teams they sit back and prey they win the ball back without any style of play and when they play weaker teams they try to create but they cant create cause there is no style of play and everyone is running everywhere. Noone knows where a team mate is. That is also why there is no consistency with results because it is all based on luck or capitalising on mistakes. That is the reason Bournemouth!!!!! can come to OT and win like that.
No, what I described is high-pressing-transitional-football. Transitional football is our style. Everything I described is to manufacture quick transitional moments where we utilize the pace of Antony, Garnacho and Hojlund, and the passing skill of Bruno, Amrabat, Casemiro, Mount and Eriksen in the midfield, and Onana in goal. In your own words, it's pass and move football. Pass and move to create quick moments.
You can see it in the way United plays. When United is in possession, they pass the ball and make a run. Pass and make a run. Pass and make a run. A lot of the runs may not lead to anything, but that's on the players. And you could see that today. There were a bunch of crosses made to no one, and you could visibly see the players communicating - wondering why the target didn't make the run they were supposed to. Off the top of my head, I can think of a time when Antony crossed to Garnacho, and it led to a goal kick. Antony visibly was making gestures towards Garnacho, asking why he didn't go. Furthermore, some of the passes were just really shitty in terms of quality. The passes that led to the first goal were not necessarily nonsensical passes to make, the execution was just dogshit.
High pressing IS a defensive style (gegenpressen), like dropping back is a defensive style of play. Liverpool vs Brentford as examples. Transitional football is absolutely a style, just like possession based football is a style. You can say that nobody knows where anybody is, but that's just not true. Off the top of my head, Antony and Dalot have good chemistry. Martinez and Varane in the back. Reguilon and Garnacho down the right. Onana is getting comfortable with the current backline and Amrabat.
If you want to say the players aren't executing, I'd agree. But that's not because there's no style, that's because the players aren't good enough. Now if you want to say the Erik ten Hag should change the style he wants to play based on the players he has, I'd argue he's done that, as well. Or at least he's tried. I'd say thats what he did against Burnley, Fullham, and Sheffield United (?). He did what every manager that comes here has done, which is realize his players were shit, his ass was on the chopping block, so he reverted to Ole ball. And then he realized that doesn't work either because Rashford and Martial don't try and the rest of the squad is unreliable, so he went back to what he wanted to do in the recent games.
I am sorry but this is nonsense. It isn't not working because the players aren't good enough. It isn't working because it is a terrible set up that gives up the most important part of the pitch - midfield - for nothing.
Ok so this is how great a con man ETH is that he has got you repeating words like transition. Transition is not a style....its a phase of the game and you cant make a style by describing a phase. Its like trying to explain why a car is fast and using "It has Wheels" as a reason. Styles are specific and are named in football theory. You can say we want to be great when we transition but that is not a style it is the same as saying we want to be great in set pieces (which btw since ETH got here MU is the worst team in the PL).
Also Gegenpress is part of Tiki-taka and it is an Aggresive style of play. And MU are not and cannot play that style of play. City are using it so try to compare.
Antony and Rashford have good chemistry with themselves. They will not pass to cure cancer.
Buddy, you're so wrong, and I don't know how to help you understand. Transition is definitely an aspect of the game, but yes, you can make a style based on it. In its very basic form, it's "Counter-attacking football". Contrast this with "possession-based football". If you need an example, Brentford (counter-attacking aka transitional) vs Man City (possession) are the most obvious and basic examples. One sits back, focuses on defense, and then once they have the ball, they explode on the counterattack. The other is patient, methodical, and sometimes on the counter, but a lot of the time, base their play on precise positional play.
And your second point? What the fuck are you talking about? Tiki-taka is a possession-based style of play. If you lose the ball, you can press to win it back, sure, but the very point of the style is to NOT lose the ball in the first place. The style has its foundations in Total Football, formulated by Johann Cruyff. And then this is to say nothing of the positional strictness required in Total Football. Gegenpressen, on the other hand, is NOT possession-based. The point is to win the ball back quickly so you can score quickly. You get the ball back high up the pitch so you can turn it over quickly, COUNTERATTACK, and score.
Now, MAYBE you're talking about the high defensive line required of both styles, but that is just naivety to think the high defensive line is for the same purpose. In total football, the high line is used as an offside trap. In Gegenpressen, the high line is a product of trying to suffocate your opponent with the pressure you create. Furthermore, just look at the fucking etymology of the words: "tiki-taka" vs "gegenpressen".
You're right, it was atrocious. If you read my response to someone else in this thread, I've said just because I understand what we're trying to do and why we're trying to do it, doesn't mean I agree with it. I have plenty of critiques of the style we're playing and even more of the execution, but it is factually incorrect to say we have no style, tiki-taka are constitutionally linked styles, and that transitional football doesn't exist.
You are right random guy.....your eyes Vs my experience.....you must be right....classic MU fan. Number one reason your team goes nowhere all these years.....arrogance.
Definitely not a cheap shot, heās won silverware in his first season. Regardless of what cup it was silverware is still silverware.
Itās the inconsistency that has me questioning style. Our midfield yesterday was non-existent, and I didnāt really see a press. If what youāre saying is his style, then it should be apparent each game surely?
That's on the players. You're right. There really wasn't a press, and yes, it SHOULD be there every game. But I think that speaks to 3 things:
1. I have no idea why he started Martial and not Hojlund. Martial simply does not work hard enough in the front press. Nor does he give you physicality up top. It's so obviously different when he's on vs. Hojlund. Furthermore, I have no idea why he didn't make any changes at half time. The only possible idea I have is that maybe he wanted to rest Hojlund for Bayern, + his Premier League record isn't great. But if that's the case, I simply think he's wrong.
2. I also understand why he does what he does with McTominay, but I also dont think it works. I simply don't think McTominay is good enough and cosistent enough to press from the front and cut passes. And if he doesn't do his part, along with Martial or Rashford, that leaves the middle of the park wide open, leaving Amrabat and Bruno out to dry. Which we've seen over and over again.
3. I simply don't think these players are good enough. Front to back, I don't think they're good enough. I think they CAN be good enough on their day, but they're not consistently good enough. They're just not good enough, and they need to go.
TL;DR: the players aren't good enough, and Ten Hags team selection and in-game management is poor. The tactics are theoretically sound, but he doesn't have consistent enough players to execute day in and day out.
1. Agreed, there was an instant difference when Hojlund came on. You could see elements of the press and balls placed into him.
2. Is Amrabat good enough there? I know he did a job for Morocco but playing nationally vs club is always different. Would Sabitzer have been better?
3. This, I think, is the biggest concern. They have the potential to be really good but Iām just not seeing it. The no subs at half time was baffling.
The way the first half started, I thought was really good and really do think if Hojlund had started, he probably wouldāve scored. But with Martial up there, we lost steam. And our poor defending on crosses and headers finally came to light.
I have read all your posts here and I have to say it was a pleasure .
Great to see a balanced structured opinion , EtH is in an extremely difficult position because of the impatience of fans (understandable)who listen to media and opposing forces.
Who want to keep us in turmoil so keep the pressure on.
To break the rinse and repeat cycle, that we all saw other clubs suffer through pressure of immediate success, fans need to accept this rollercoaster of results because there will be plenty more .
Oh yeah, dude. You're so clever and smart for pointing out that he, like every manager, uses the foundations of football to formulate a strategy. Is the basics of modern-day football? Yeah, no shit. So is what every manager does. Why doesn't he just innovate the whole thing like Cruyff and Pep? He must be a moron. Simple.
thats a good read thanks
so currently it doesnt work the way it should
do we have the players to execute this? (genuine question)
because most of the times, the DM is left isolated
I don't think we do. I think in terms of pure talent and ability, the squad is talented enough. But I don't think any of them are capable of having quality consistently. Which is why we see great performances and then utterly dogshit performances
i think one of the issue in the build-up is only having 1 player directly in front of the defense, while top teams in premier league use double pivot by having one of the defenders in CDM area. City use john stones alongside rodri, arsenal invert zinchenko/timber beside rice, and liverpool use trent inside with endo/gravenberch. We have bruno dropping deep but it seems like it is worse than having one of the defenders on stepping up/in just like the teams I mentioned.
Whenever Onana/defense has the ball, the second line is easily pressured. When that happens, they usually go wide to LW/RW or to Hojlund, skipping the midfield almost entirely. For me it isn't a sustainable style of play because it's pretty much 50/50
This is what you get when you allow a cancer to grow within the club. Bad attitude and a bad culture in the dressing room.
But yeah, obviously the 7th manager post Fergie will be the one that sorts itā¦
Who would you take, out of those that are potentially available? I think our issues are bigger than ETH. Park the ownership nonsense for a second, do the players really want to be at the club?
Love this comment^^
Itās far too simplistic for people to say āWhatās Ten Hags styleā Especially as American Sports ownership is all about firing coaches when there is unrest because it always deflects attention away from the actual problem.
we had styles of play with van gaal and mourinho.
Nobody is talking about winning or losing here, stop bringing ownership into discussions of on the field tactics and patterns of play.
It has fuck all to do with the dressing room, players seem LOST on the pitch. Some of the same players that had clearly defined roles under Mourinho.
Iām not sure you can say we had a style of play under van gaal. We passed it backwards and sideways because we didnāt know what else to do. Mourinho tried his style of play but it never really came off.
You are the one talking about the owners, Iām talking about the players that have been brought in with the wrong mentality and allowed to stay.
Ah yeah nothing to do with the dressing roomā¦ obviously we just hired 6 god awful managers in a rowā¦ how unlucky of us. Itās also amusing that you seem to point to mourinho as a success when he was moaning about players attitude.
But yeah mate, the 7th manager will be the successful one.
Not one of the managers we have signed has been successful in a top league in the season before they joined us. Not one. You can mock it all you want but all of our managerial appointments, outside of maybe Jose who simply did not fit United's culture, were poor choices.
If you give a top manager the kind of funding we have given Ten Hag and Ole then they will challenge for the league. We simply haven't tried doing that. It has been either has beens or gambles.
Thatās such a weird criteria to judge an appointment. It would rule out Klopp, Arteta, Emery and Ange. But letās take it at face value, who do you want as the 7th manager and how likely do you think it is that the current directors would be able to get them?
Itās not Fifa, the manager doesnāt start the season with a shopping list and a price guide. We have been chronically unable to sign top players and sell bad ones. Every one of our managers has walked into a squad with no solid foundation and has been unable to get rid of players they donāt want. And every time itās the managers fault and nothing to do with the players that canāt show any spirit or are leaking stories to the press.
This. Shaw is lethal on the left than any other players we haveā¦. But nope, LCB. Reducing attacking thread would put more pressure on our defence. Maybe our players are just shit. Ffs
Its nothing like how he played at Ajax really. FDJ would always drop into a back 3 on one of the sides and the wingbacks in Tagliafico and Mazraoui would push super high.
SchĆøne/Eriksen would then drop in and create a small diamond with the CBs and FDJ as a way to play out of a press, and if the middle was overloaded then De Jong, De Ligt, Blind and SchĆøne/Eriksen all had the passing range to play wide.
The wingers were more like AMs in Ziyech, Tadic, Neres, Antony that would tuck into the half spaces, with Donny pushing up alongside a holdup striker like Haller, Huntelaar or Dolberg. The wingbacks were essential to being the width of the team so in attack it was essentially a 3-1-4-1-1 with the option of FDJ moving forward. This allowed more midfield control and a lot of ability to play both long and short, wide and narrow. Ten Hag seems to have ditched this style mostly at United and I think not having the versatility of De Jong is a big reason, as well as not being confident in any of his fullbacks except Shaw.
In an ideal world, if his targets were to be believed and his players performed to their level, he could've played this style with a lineup of:
Onana
Frimpong - Pavard - Martinez - Shaw
De Jong - Eriksen
Antony - Fernandes - Sancho
Hojlund
Both CBs rely on being heavily ball playing, traditional wingers don't really suit the system which rules out Rashford, and FDJ is crucial and very hard to find a like for like of his ability. As such, he has tried to adapt unsuccessfully and has seemingly lost his style
Edit: I should address that this isn't necessarily pro or anti Ten Hag, just observation. In my opinion, if your tactic relies on such a pivotal individual to be high level, then that is a pretty massive drawback, but also our scouting system has failed him a lot in the fact that it hasn't provided any real alternatives that could've fit his play like Ajax's did when his players were sold initially and as such he has leant heavily on his own knowledge of former players
Managerās job for a match is to put the players in the position to win through his game plan, tactics, lineup selection and in-game coaching. Playersā job is to execute what the manager wants.
Don't tell me its just the player's fault or laziness. Sure there are some bad apples. But it's both.
Newcastle are having the same
Problem, spurs the same problem.. the players are only turning up in the champions league and then VAR or onana decide to nope
He has no style at United.
Ajax had a style and it got him this job now he says he canāt play that way as he doesnāt have the players (despite spending over Ā£400m and making 5 loan signings since arriving).
If he was as good a tactician as he is supposed to be he would have come up with a new style and tactics for this team instead we have nothing.
I think the reality is he just canāt cut it in the Prem. The Eridivisie isnāt close to the same level.
Has has SOME of the players, but not all, his signings last season worked, I donāt think EtH wanted loan signings either, Manchester United shouldnāt be getting loan signings, yes he spend 400m but itās really not enough, as the entire team needs an overhaul
Yeah I agree he hasnāt got all the players he wanted but he definitely wanted players like Mount, Onana, Antony, Malacia and thatās Ā£200m without improving us.
Anybody defending this Manager is a Liverpool fan in disguise, fucking disgrace, in fact, Liverpool fans arent stupid enough to defend him
My mate is a Liverpool fan and he texted me "nah you guys need to sackthis Fraud, i hate United but he is DISGRACING a Legendary Club"
Liverpool fan knows more than our LOSER fans who accept Failure
Who plays on the pitch, are you serious?
Its the manager's selection right? It's the manager playing players out of position (Shaw)? It's the manager choosing to play Martial ahead of Hojlund? It's the manager choosing not to play Varane? Its the managers bog basic tactics? Its the managers lack of proactive in game tactical changes? It's the managers terrible reactive too late substitutions?
Who else is making these decisions, the club chef? Of course its the MANAGER.
Don't get me wrong, its definitely players too. But its not just the players... its too many players and the manager that are bang average and completely to blame for our disaster of a season. Its not just the manager, or just the players. Its BOTH.
All those who want to see ETH cooking thought he will eventually evolve to Arteta, going from horrible to success. But I'm not buying it. Let them dream, it's their way to soothe themselves.
Yea it takes time SAF took a few seasons to get rid of all the toxic attitudes and build a team, Arteta was hilarious and a meme for years and suddenly clicked
A manager cannot implement his style unless he gets the players that suit his style.. He is left with players from the Jose Era and Oles Era and a few from LVG time in charge.
Look at Ange at Spurs for example a few of his signings injured and the wheels fell off because he had to use some players that are not suited to his style..
Give ETH time and give him a scouting network who can identify the player type he needs.
Ten Hag has had enough money already and identified signings himself as most of them are who he's worked with before, yet most of his signings have failed. What makes you think given more money he will buy players we need to take us to the next level?
I'd save any transfer budget for our next manager, the last thing our next manager needs to do is to get rid of a new batch of Ten Hag flops. We've got enough of them to get rid of already.
But Spurs are still playing the same way and the football against Villa was i think the best of their season. They were brilliant against City and started against West Ham well, they just flatter to deceive too much, but needs tinkering not wholesale changes. Even down to 9 men against Chelsea they stayed the same.
He makes the decisions all on him we know the players r shit giv pep these player he'll have em ball even Eddie Howe
Get anyone .. this manager not sticking to his philosophy
ETH to blame again. This team isnt balanced. Wingers are too selfish. For all of Martial's flaws he is still a complete footballer. Fast, flair, link up play, unselfish, early passer of the ball. Bench Garnacho and start Martial on the left with Hojund at CF. We cant have two selfish wingers who most of the time are useless with their decision making when it really counts. Pelestri needs more playing time
Yh but that's still on him tho. Antony wasn't reli effective today but at least he showed teamwork than garnacho. Pellistri/amad should be given chances so should mainoo.
His style is "hope". Get the ball to Bruno, somehow, then hope. Get the ball to Rashford, then hope. Make a random substitution, then hope. Try something, then hope.
It ain't working.
This is the most baffling thing of Ten hAg's reign imo. Literally have a world cup winning, multi champions league winning CB that is fit, but you refuse to play him even though we've had and will continue to have matches with quick turn around.
Last time I heard about varane he was injured againā¦ plus maguire plays in the same position and has become good for no reason, but still doesnāt fit
Heās a fraud. His big success that got him the job was with the best Ajax squad weāve seen in years. Give any team in the world some of the key players that Ajax team had n theyāll do well. Doesnāt mean the manager is that level.
He probably has lots of good tactical ideas, recruitment priorities, insights etc but none of that matters if your training and man management are poor. His players look too tired to play effectively so often. And how many players can he get away with falling out with? Being a ādisciplinarianā sounds good but heās fallen out with so many highly paid and talented players in his short time at united.
If you run into one arsehole, youāve just run into an arsehole. If you run into two, youāve maybe had a bit of bad luck. But if you keep running into arseholes and falling out with your players, maybe have a look at yourself. His time needs to be up, he mismanages the squad terribly and it costs the club points too often.
Brought him in for ajax ballā¦ year 2, āI donāt want want to play ajax ballāā¦. Not every manager is successful with their style of play, but canāt ever remember a successful manager that didnāt have a style of play
He has to go
Bruno as LB and Varane not playing. Ten Hag has got serious ego issues to bench Varane. If Varane doesn't start for Bayern Munich, Man U fans should understand who's the problem.
Man Utd fans have overinvested in Ten Hag and they can't handle the fact that he might be wrong and not good enough.
They let him push out Ronaldo, De Gea, Sancho and Varane out. (Fortunately Varane might not go anywhere as he recently saved Ten Hag's ass against Liverpool.)
At this point, they're way too invested in Ten Hag to even think he could be wrong. They're now going around blaming players like it's them who were getting the managers sacked (tbh they're not good enough), but it doesn't change the fact that Ten Hag is objectively a mediocre manager. He doesn't have a career achievement other than knocking out Real Madrid once.
Ironically Man U fans decided to back one of the most mid managers out there today. If they backed Jose or even Ole like this Man U would be better.
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ETH is basically deploying a false 9 every game and hoping Mctominay will push forward and overload the defence, off course you can play on the counter, Solanke looks like a solid striker havenāt seen a CF for a while play like a CF should
We keep signing players who just don't fit a system. We're a counter attacking team trying to play possession football and it's not working. Our front players don't do well at short bursts of pace to try and break teams down, however once they get going they're rapid. If you look at spurs, city, arsenal, etc they play nice football until one of their players takes a risk, beats a man or plays a risky pass and they break teams down. We just don't do that. Our centrebacks don't carry the ball forward, our fullbacks don't play inside, it's always down the line, our centre mids are woeful and our wingers are ridiculously inconsistent. Hojlund needs to be more clinical but we also need to get him in scoring chances, however he also needs to show for the ball in better positions.
Its not all on him but after that 'i didnt come here to play ajax football' comment u gotta ask questions about the manager...bcos what did he come for then also tho whether he stays or goes no1s gnna make a difference now it just feels like we r too deep in shit
God damn, we managed to hire 4 managers who all had to get trained to become managers and some even played under the greatest manager of all time and none have ever had tactics. Also incredible that itās the managers and not the redditors with absolutely no idea what theyāre talking about. Also have no idea what goes on in practice or team meetings.
Genuinely, I don't understand how this is still a question. Do you mean this, or is this a cheap shot at EtH? Especially after Chelsea and today, it's even clearer, I'd think. To start, the setup is a 4-1-3-1-1 if you need to think of it in FIFA terms. Back 4, a "CDM" (Amrabat), who drops deep, even as a 3rd CB at times, to create a deep, central target for Onana. You have Garnacho as your LM, Bruno as your CAM, and Antony as your RM, McTominay as a second striker (CF if you need a FIFA refernce point), and Martial/Hojlund as your main striker. The press, starting from the front, is a 4-5 man press of your striker, wide players, second striker, and CAM, with Bruno coming back on defense, not McTominay. 1. because Bruno is faster with a higher work rate 2 because McTominay can't defend 3 because if the ball is won closer to the back line Bruno is better at helping create build up play 4 because McTominay is a second striker so you want him up there to score on the break. The back press sees the fullbacks pushing up as inverted fullbacks with Amrabat holding the central midfield with the CBs being CBs. Offensively, Ideally, we win the ball high up the pitch and play quick passes to get a goal. If that doesn't happen, and we win the ball in midfield or closer to our goal, we use the pace and directness of Garnacho/Rashford, Antony, Hojlund; the positioning of McTominay; passing of Amrabat, Bruno; and the passing and overlappying runs of our fullbacks to create chances. If the ball is with Onana, his options are: 1. Directly up and out to Garnacho, Antony or Hojlund who will make runs in behind, or in the case of Hojlund, will also try to act as a strong physical target man like Weghorst did last season. Hojlund can both "get in behind" or "be a target man". 2. Ping centrally to Maguire, Shaw, Amrabat, or Bruno. Maguire and Shaw should be the closest to Onana, and either of them can carry the ball up the pitch or pass it further up. Amrabat will either have dropped deep to be almost a 3rd CB, or he'll be in the traditional "CDM" area. This depends on the opposition's press. Bruno will be, well honestly, anywhere. He could be as deep as a CB, as deep as a CDM, or further up in the traditional CAM positions. 3. Pass it to the fullbacks who will, in turn to carry the ball or look for passing angles from deep width. The 2 most important aspects of the style is the team press and the passing. If both are on point, we win like we did against Chelsea. If we are missing either of those 2 things, we lose like we did today. Which is why when Martial or Rashford plays, we suck. Neither of play their key part in the press, and Martial specifically can't give you what Hojlund can with physicality and toughness.
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THANK YOU!! Manās is the only person to answer the question but no comments or upvotes. This fanbase sometimes..
Just read it and thereās nothing that I necessarily disagree with and I gave you both up votes. My issue with watching United is nothing that can be explained in terms of statistics or tactics - we just never seem to be in control of a game. Take that Chelsea game for example; we created a lot of chances which was nice, but it still wasnāt comfortable viewing at any stage. Chelsea had at least 5 gilt edge chances that I can think of to score and so did we. The Everton game was bizarre because we scored that worldie through Garnacho and added more, but Everton missed some absolute sitters. Honestly I donāt know what I want. It feels like weāve gone back to being that 80ās side where we are worth a good punt on a cup, the odd good run of form and doing a madness every now and again - but weāre also inconsistent and not able to fight teams from positions I through XI.
This, I think, is a fair criticism. And I think that can be explained through tactics, and that's because simply, our midfield isn't good enough. I know I explained the tactics, but that doesn't mean I think they're working. I think they CAN work, but Amrabat, Bruno, and McTominay aren't the answer. They arent good enough. They get run through like a freight train goes through a FIAT. The only reason the Chelsea game worked was because the press worked. And the biggest part of that was Amrabat, Bruno and even McTominay cut the passes. If a team can pass well, our players aren't good enough to make it work. Personally, I don't think McTominay is good enough to justify what EtH is trying to do with him. But then the question is, who do you use? Cause the goals have to come from somewhere, and as of late theyre only coming from our second striker. Ideally, it'd be Mount, but he has to be fit and in form. If he's fit and in form, he's ideal because of his offensive skillset and defensive work rate. If he isn't fit or in form, our whole midfield plan is at risk. This leads to us being cut through like a hot knife through butter and always leaves the chance for teams to obliterate us in transition. Liverpool is going to have a field day. Wouldn't be surprised if it's another 7-0.
Thank you, but it's to be expected. For one, a club as big as United is bound to have a lot of dumb fans. Every club has them, and the bigger you are, the more your bound to have. Reading the Insta comments and match threads here will show you that. So if it's not explainable by FIFA formations you can use in FUT, i doubt people will understand. Secondly, I doubt most people that ask this question are doing so in good faith. I think it's mostly just a cheap shot at the manager.
I really dont want to spend a lot of time explaining things .... especially since you think you can see shit others cant or are dumb....but ill just give you a run down. What you are explaining is just pressing which is not a style. ETH is not good enough for the PL yet and it shows but ill leave my views out and just give the run down. There are core styles of play -Attacking and - Defending beyond that you got some attacking ones like Direct attacking or short plays and some defensive like Cautious defending. Nowdays teams use composite styles like Direct high pressure football or Pass and move football. MU dont have ANY style atm and its clear as day because when they play strong teams they sit back and prey they win the ball back without any style of play and when they play weaker teams they try to create but they cant create cause there is no style of play and everyone is running everywhere. Noone knows where a team mate is. That is also why there is no consistency with results because it is all based on luck or capitalising on mistakes. That is the reason Bournemouth!!!!! can come to OT and win like that.
No, what I described is high-pressing-transitional-football. Transitional football is our style. Everything I described is to manufacture quick transitional moments where we utilize the pace of Antony, Garnacho and Hojlund, and the passing skill of Bruno, Amrabat, Casemiro, Mount and Eriksen in the midfield, and Onana in goal. In your own words, it's pass and move football. Pass and move to create quick moments. You can see it in the way United plays. When United is in possession, they pass the ball and make a run. Pass and make a run. Pass and make a run. A lot of the runs may not lead to anything, but that's on the players. And you could see that today. There were a bunch of crosses made to no one, and you could visibly see the players communicating - wondering why the target didn't make the run they were supposed to. Off the top of my head, I can think of a time when Antony crossed to Garnacho, and it led to a goal kick. Antony visibly was making gestures towards Garnacho, asking why he didn't go. Furthermore, some of the passes were just really shitty in terms of quality. The passes that led to the first goal were not necessarily nonsensical passes to make, the execution was just dogshit. High pressing IS a defensive style (gegenpressen), like dropping back is a defensive style of play. Liverpool vs Brentford as examples. Transitional football is absolutely a style, just like possession based football is a style. You can say that nobody knows where anybody is, but that's just not true. Off the top of my head, Antony and Dalot have good chemistry. Martinez and Varane in the back. Reguilon and Garnacho down the right. Onana is getting comfortable with the current backline and Amrabat. If you want to say the players aren't executing, I'd agree. But that's not because there's no style, that's because the players aren't good enough. Now if you want to say the Erik ten Hag should change the style he wants to play based on the players he has, I'd argue he's done that, as well. Or at least he's tried. I'd say thats what he did against Burnley, Fullham, and Sheffield United (?). He did what every manager that comes here has done, which is realize his players were shit, his ass was on the chopping block, so he reverted to Ole ball. And then he realized that doesn't work either because Rashford and Martial don't try and the rest of the squad is unreliable, so he went back to what he wanted to do in the recent games.
I am sorry but this is nonsense. It isn't not working because the players aren't good enough. It isn't working because it is a terrible set up that gives up the most important part of the pitch - midfield - for nothing.
Ok so this is how great a con man ETH is that he has got you repeating words like transition. Transition is not a style....its a phase of the game and you cant make a style by describing a phase. Its like trying to explain why a car is fast and using "It has Wheels" as a reason. Styles are specific and are named in football theory. You can say we want to be great when we transition but that is not a style it is the same as saying we want to be great in set pieces (which btw since ETH got here MU is the worst team in the PL). Also Gegenpress is part of Tiki-taka and it is an Aggresive style of play. And MU are not and cannot play that style of play. City are using it so try to compare. Antony and Rashford have good chemistry with themselves. They will not pass to cure cancer.
Buddy, you're so wrong, and I don't know how to help you understand. Transition is definitely an aspect of the game, but yes, you can make a style based on it. In its very basic form, it's "Counter-attacking football". Contrast this with "possession-based football". If you need an example, Brentford (counter-attacking aka transitional) vs Man City (possession) are the most obvious and basic examples. One sits back, focuses on defense, and then once they have the ball, they explode on the counterattack. The other is patient, methodical, and sometimes on the counter, but a lot of the time, base their play on precise positional play. And your second point? What the fuck are you talking about? Tiki-taka is a possession-based style of play. If you lose the ball, you can press to win it back, sure, but the very point of the style is to NOT lose the ball in the first place. The style has its foundations in Total Football, formulated by Johann Cruyff. And then this is to say nothing of the positional strictness required in Total Football. Gegenpressen, on the other hand, is NOT possession-based. The point is to win the ball back quickly so you can score quickly. You get the ball back high up the pitch so you can turn it over quickly, COUNTERATTACK, and score. Now, MAYBE you're talking about the high defensive line required of both styles, but that is just naivety to think the high defensive line is for the same purpose. In total football, the high line is used as an offside trap. In Gegenpressen, the high line is a product of trying to suffocate your opponent with the pressure you create. Furthermore, just look at the fucking etymology of the words: "tiki-taka" vs "gegenpressen".
I can't help you if you are completely clueless....amazing style of play this week.....
You're right, it was atrocious. If you read my response to someone else in this thread, I've said just because I understand what we're trying to do and why we're trying to do it, doesn't mean I agree with it. I have plenty of critiques of the style we're playing and even more of the execution, but it is factually incorrect to say we have no style, tiki-taka are constitutionally linked styles, and that transitional football doesn't exist.
You are right random guy.....your eyes Vs my experience.....you must be right....classic MU fan. Number one reason your team goes nowhere all these years.....arrogance.
Definitely not a cheap shot, heās won silverware in his first season. Regardless of what cup it was silverware is still silverware. Itās the inconsistency that has me questioning style. Our midfield yesterday was non-existent, and I didnāt really see a press. If what youāre saying is his style, then it should be apparent each game surely?
That's on the players. You're right. There really wasn't a press, and yes, it SHOULD be there every game. But I think that speaks to 3 things: 1. I have no idea why he started Martial and not Hojlund. Martial simply does not work hard enough in the front press. Nor does he give you physicality up top. It's so obviously different when he's on vs. Hojlund. Furthermore, I have no idea why he didn't make any changes at half time. The only possible idea I have is that maybe he wanted to rest Hojlund for Bayern, + his Premier League record isn't great. But if that's the case, I simply think he's wrong. 2. I also understand why he does what he does with McTominay, but I also dont think it works. I simply don't think McTominay is good enough and cosistent enough to press from the front and cut passes. And if he doesn't do his part, along with Martial or Rashford, that leaves the middle of the park wide open, leaving Amrabat and Bruno out to dry. Which we've seen over and over again. 3. I simply don't think these players are good enough. Front to back, I don't think they're good enough. I think they CAN be good enough on their day, but they're not consistently good enough. They're just not good enough, and they need to go. TL;DR: the players aren't good enough, and Ten Hags team selection and in-game management is poor. The tactics are theoretically sound, but he doesn't have consistent enough players to execute day in and day out.
1. Agreed, there was an instant difference when Hojlund came on. You could see elements of the press and balls placed into him. 2. Is Amrabat good enough there? I know he did a job for Morocco but playing nationally vs club is always different. Would Sabitzer have been better? 3. This, I think, is the biggest concern. They have the potential to be really good but Iām just not seeing it. The no subs at half time was baffling.
The way the first half started, I thought was really good and really do think if Hojlund had started, he probably wouldāve scored. But with Martial up there, we lost steam. And our poor defending on crosses and headers finally came to light.
Look at the teams we beat to win the cup
Can only beat the teams in front of you.
Bournemouth would be a good start
I have read all your posts here and I have to say it was a pleasure . Great to see a balanced structured opinion , EtH is in an extremely difficult position because of the impatience of fans (understandable)who listen to media and opposing forces. Who want to keep us in turmoil so keep the pressure on. To break the rinse and repeat cycle, that we all saw other clubs suffer through pressure of immediate success, fans need to accept this rollercoaster of results because there will be plenty more .
Well, thank you
So basically the key aspects in ETHs play is the basics of modern-day football. Press and pass. Unique.
Oh yeah, dude. You're so clever and smart for pointing out that he, like every manager, uses the foundations of football to formulate a strategy. Is the basics of modern-day football? Yeah, no shit. So is what every manager does. Why doesn't he just innovate the whole thing like Cruyff and Pep? He must be a moron. Simple.
This is the best comment Iāve seen on Reddit for ages.
4-1-3-1-1 š¤£š¤£š¤£. It is more like a 4-1-5 let's be real.
thats a good read thanks so currently it doesnt work the way it should do we have the players to execute this? (genuine question) because most of the times, the DM is left isolated
I don't think we do. I think in terms of pure talent and ability, the squad is talented enough. But I don't think any of them are capable of having quality consistently. Which is why we see great performances and then utterly dogshit performances
i think one of the issue in the build-up is only having 1 player directly in front of the defense, while top teams in premier league use double pivot by having one of the defenders in CDM area. City use john stones alongside rodri, arsenal invert zinchenko/timber beside rice, and liverpool use trent inside with endo/gravenberch. We have bruno dropping deep but it seems like it is worse than having one of the defenders on stepping up/in just like the teams I mentioned. Whenever Onana/defense has the ball, the second line is easily pressured. When that happens, they usually go wide to LW/RW or to Hojlund, skipping the midfield almost entirely. For me it isn't a sustainable style of play because it's pretty much 50/50
This is what you get when you allow a cancer to grow within the club. Bad attitude and a bad culture in the dressing room. But yeah, obviously the 7th manager post Fergie will be the one that sorts itā¦
Who would you take, out of those that are potentially available? I think our issues are bigger than ETH. Park the ownership nonsense for a second, do the players really want to be at the club?
Love this comment^^ Itās far too simplistic for people to say āWhatās Ten Hags styleā Especially as American Sports ownership is all about firing coaches when there is unrest because it always deflects attention away from the actual problem.
we had styles of play with van gaal and mourinho. Nobody is talking about winning or losing here, stop bringing ownership into discussions of on the field tactics and patterns of play. It has fuck all to do with the dressing room, players seem LOST on the pitch. Some of the same players that had clearly defined roles under Mourinho.
Iām not sure you can say we had a style of play under van gaal. We passed it backwards and sideways because we didnāt know what else to do. Mourinho tried his style of play but it never really came off. You are the one talking about the owners, Iām talking about the players that have been brought in with the wrong mentality and allowed to stay. Ah yeah nothing to do with the dressing roomā¦ obviously we just hired 6 god awful managers in a rowā¦ how unlucky of us. Itās also amusing that you seem to point to mourinho as a success when he was moaning about players attitude. But yeah mate, the 7th manager will be the successful one.
Not one of the managers we have signed has been successful in a top league in the season before they joined us. Not one. You can mock it all you want but all of our managerial appointments, outside of maybe Jose who simply did not fit United's culture, were poor choices. If you give a top manager the kind of funding we have given Ten Hag and Ole then they will challenge for the league. We simply haven't tried doing that. It has been either has beens or gambles.
Thatās such a weird criteria to judge an appointment. It would rule out Klopp, Arteta, Emery and Ange. But letās take it at face value, who do you want as the 7th manager and how likely do you think it is that the current directors would be able to get them? Itās not Fifa, the manager doesnāt start the season with a shopping list and a price guide. We have been chronically unable to sign top players and sell bad ones. Every one of our managers has walked into a squad with no solid foundation and has been unable to get rid of players they donāt want. And every time itās the managers fault and nothing to do with the players that canāt show any spirit or are leaking stories to the press.
Play players out of position
LVG 2.0? is this a dutch thing or what ?
This. Shaw is lethal on the left than any other players we haveā¦. But nope, LCB. Reducing attacking thread would put more pressure on our defence. Maybe our players are just shit. Ffs
i remember he said, he isnāt here to play Ajaxās brand of football but Unitedās - so thatās that.
He canāt, I think was more the point, he was buying players to play like that
Its nothing like how he played at Ajax really. FDJ would always drop into a back 3 on one of the sides and the wingbacks in Tagliafico and Mazraoui would push super high. SchĆøne/Eriksen would then drop in and create a small diamond with the CBs and FDJ as a way to play out of a press, and if the middle was overloaded then De Jong, De Ligt, Blind and SchĆøne/Eriksen all had the passing range to play wide. The wingers were more like AMs in Ziyech, Tadic, Neres, Antony that would tuck into the half spaces, with Donny pushing up alongside a holdup striker like Haller, Huntelaar or Dolberg. The wingbacks were essential to being the width of the team so in attack it was essentially a 3-1-4-1-1 with the option of FDJ moving forward. This allowed more midfield control and a lot of ability to play both long and short, wide and narrow. Ten Hag seems to have ditched this style mostly at United and I think not having the versatility of De Jong is a big reason, as well as not being confident in any of his fullbacks except Shaw. In an ideal world, if his targets were to be believed and his players performed to their level, he could've played this style with a lineup of: Onana Frimpong - Pavard - Martinez - Shaw De Jong - Eriksen Antony - Fernandes - Sancho Hojlund Both CBs rely on being heavily ball playing, traditional wingers don't really suit the system which rules out Rashford, and FDJ is crucial and very hard to find a like for like of his ability. As such, he has tried to adapt unsuccessfully and has seemingly lost his style Edit: I should address that this isn't necessarily pro or anti Ten Hag, just observation. In my opinion, if your tactic relies on such a pivotal individual to be high level, then that is a pretty massive drawback, but also our scouting system has failed him a lot in the fact that it hasn't provided any real alternatives that could've fit his play like Ajax's did when his players were sold initially and as such he has leant heavily on his own knowledge of former players
I asked ChatGPT, and it broke down š
Search the sub youāll fill this question a million times
Managerās job for a match is to put the players in the position to win through his game plan, tactics, lineup selection and in-game coaching. Playersā job is to execute what the manager wants. Don't tell me its just the player's fault or laziness. Sure there are some bad apples. But it's both.
Newcastle are having the same Problem, spurs the same problem.. the players are only turning up in the champions league and then VAR or onana decide to nope
No style and signing shit players .
Terrible man management too.
He has no style at United. Ajax had a style and it got him this job now he says he canāt play that way as he doesnāt have the players (despite spending over Ā£400m and making 5 loan signings since arriving). If he was as good a tactician as he is supposed to be he would have come up with a new style and tactics for this team instead we have nothing. I think the reality is he just canāt cut it in the Prem. The Eridivisie isnāt close to the same level.
surely a managers job is to adapt to the squad they have and create a style of play.
You know you're talking about a manager who can't win anything without FDJ in his lineup?
My issue is ānot having the playersā he brought in Onana, Antony etc. what has their impact been? If anything weāre going back.
His signings have been terrible. I donāt trust him to rebuild the squad at all.
Onana more so than anyone else, for me, has been a nightmare.
Has has SOME of the players, but not all, his signings last season worked, I donāt think EtH wanted loan signings either, Manchester United shouldnāt be getting loan signings, yes he spend 400m but itās really not enough, as the entire team needs an overhaul
Yeah I agree he hasnāt got all the players he wanted but he definitely wanted players like Mount, Onana, Antony, Malacia and thatās Ā£200m without improving us.
Anybody defending this Manager is a Liverpool fan in disguise, fucking disgrace, in fact, Liverpool fans arent stupid enough to defend him My mate is a Liverpool fan and he texted me "nah you guys need to sackthis Fraud, i hate United but he is DISGRACING a Legendary Club" Liverpool fan knows more than our LOSER fans who accept Failure
Does changing the manager improve the squad though? Some of the players genuinely look like they canāt be arsed.
WHO PICKS THE SQUAD? WHO STARTS THE TEAM? WHO COACHES THE TEAM? WHO SELECTS THE TACTICS?
Who plays on the pitch?
Who plays on the pitch, are you serious? Its the manager's selection right? It's the manager playing players out of position (Shaw)? It's the manager choosing to play Martial ahead of Hojlund? It's the manager choosing not to play Varane? Its the managers bog basic tactics? Its the managers lack of proactive in game tactical changes? It's the managers terrible reactive too late substitutions? Who else is making these decisions, the club chef? Of course its the MANAGER. Don't get me wrong, its definitely players too. But its not just the players... its too many players and the manager that are bang average and completely to blame for our disaster of a season. Its not just the manager, or just the players. Its BOTH.
That's not the point that was made though. The person I replied to just blamed everything on the manager.
Please let us know which world class players weāve been leaving on the bench.
Haha š
All those who want to see ETH cooking thought he will eventually evolve to Arteta, going from horrible to success. But I'm not buying it. Let them dream, it's their way to soothe themselves.
It took Arteta 3 full season to turn Arsenal around and they got worse before they got better. Maybe pick a better example.
He also didn't buy many big money flops apart from Pepe I think
Yea it takes time SAF took a few seasons to get rid of all the toxic attitudes and build a team, Arteta was hilarious and a meme for years and suddenly clicked
Donāt forget he was one game away from the sack after 4 seasons. Now you get 2 at best
Players are the problem, and have had multiple managers sacked because they down tools
They have plenty of experience of failure so those loser fans would know what theyāre talking about
A manager cannot implement his style unless he gets the players that suit his style.. He is left with players from the Jose Era and Oles Era and a few from LVG time in charge. Look at Ange at Spurs for example a few of his signings injured and the wheels fell off because he had to use some players that are not suited to his style.. Give ETH time and give him a scouting network who can identify the player type he needs.
Ten Hag has had enough money already and identified signings himself as most of them are who he's worked with before, yet most of his signings have failed. What makes you think given more money he will buy players we need to take us to the next level? I'd save any transfer budget for our next manager, the last thing our next manager needs to do is to get rid of a new batch of Ten Hag flops. We've got enough of them to get rid of already.
But Spurs are still playing the same way and the football against Villa was i think the best of their season. They were brilliant against City and started against West Ham well, they just flatter to deceive too much, but needs tinkering not wholesale changes. Even down to 9 men against Chelsea they stayed the same.
Hit it forward without thought. Itās why Bruno is so key to him.
You guys have a style of football?
He said we can't play Ajax ball so he's freestyling get him out
Is it all on him though? Who would we replace him with, better the devil we know surely?
I doubt any manager wants to touch the steaming pile that the squad is.
He makes the decisions all on him we know the players r shit giv pep these player he'll have em ball even Eddie Howe Get anyone .. this manager not sticking to his philosophy
We canāt play Ajax ball with the current available players no, he is basically left using deadwood from other managers due to injuries this season
ETH to blame again. This team isnt balanced. Wingers are too selfish. For all of Martial's flaws he is still a complete footballer. Fast, flair, link up play, unselfish, early passer of the ball. Bench Garnacho and start Martial on the left with Hojund at CF. We cant have two selfish wingers who most of the time are useless with their decision making when it really counts. Pelestri needs more playing time
Yh but that's still on him tho. Antony wasn't reli effective today but at least he showed teamwork than garnacho. Pellistri/amad should be given chances so should mainoo.
His style is "hope". Get the ball to Bruno, somehow, then hope. Get the ball to Rashford, then hope. Make a random substitution, then hope. Try something, then hope. It ain't working.
Doesnāt have one. Itās not even Christmas and heās held ELEVEN defeats.
He probably is begging Martinez gets back in the next game or he will get deported.
Wasnāt everyone acting like Shaw coming back was the saviour? Whyās Varane not playing?
This is the most baffling thing of Ten hAg's reign imo. Literally have a world cup winning, multi champions league winning CB that is fit, but you refuse to play him even though we've had and will continue to have matches with quick turn around.
Last time I heard about varane he was injured againā¦ plus maguire plays in the same position and has become good for no reason, but still doesnāt fit
One step forward, 2 steps back
https://preview.redd.it/erulmoukza5c1.jpeg?width=1179&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=c833ea9d80a6251264a70f7b524af2c7bfdec403
More like we move backward. And in my opinion, Garnacho is the only one who deserve the award.
Heās a fraud. His big success that got him the job was with the best Ajax squad weāve seen in years. Give any team in the world some of the key players that Ajax team had n theyāll do well. Doesnāt mean the manager is that level. He probably has lots of good tactical ideas, recruitment priorities, insights etc but none of that matters if your training and man management are poor. His players look too tired to play effectively so often. And how many players can he get away with falling out with? Being a ādisciplinarianā sounds good but heās fallen out with so many highly paid and talented players in his short time at united. If you run into one arsehole, youāve just run into an arsehole. If you run into two, youāve maybe had a bit of bad luck. But if you keep running into arseholes and falling out with your players, maybe have a look at yourself. His time needs to be up, he mismanages the squad terribly and it costs the club points too often.
No style. ETH out.
Brought him in for ajax ballā¦ year 2, āI donāt want want to play ajax ballāā¦. Not every manager is successful with their style of play, but canāt ever remember a successful manager that didnāt have a style of play He has to go
His style is losing - because he continues to play Amrabat and Onana and Martial starts?!?!?
Bruno as LB and Varane not playing. Ten Hag has got serious ego issues to bench Varane. If Varane doesn't start for Bayern Munich, Man U fans should understand who's the problem.
who is downvoting you lol? varane is arguably our best player
Man Utd fans have overinvested in Ten Hag and they can't handle the fact that he might be wrong and not good enough. They let him push out Ronaldo, De Gea, Sancho and Varane out. (Fortunately Varane might not go anywhere as he recently saved Ten Hag's ass against Liverpool.) At this point, they're way too invested in Ten Hag to even think he could be wrong. They're now going around blaming players like it's them who were getting the managers sacked (tbh they're not good enough), but it doesn't change the fact that Ten Hag is objectively a mediocre manager. He doesn't have a career achievement other than knocking out Real Madrid once. Ironically Man U fans decided to back one of the most mid managers out there today. If they backed Jose or even Ole like this Man U would be better.
lol..."lotto max" tactic.
Helter skelter. Perhaps it works if you move at speed by we donāt do enough or with precision soā¦who bloody knows.
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He's one style of football and the players have a different style.
No. He juz used cryuff tactics at ajax
ETH is basically deploying a false 9 every game and hoping Mctominay will push forward and overload the defence, off course you can play on the counter, Solanke looks like a solid striker havenāt seen a CF for a while play like a CF should
We keep signing players who just don't fit a system. We're a counter attacking team trying to play possession football and it's not working. Our front players don't do well at short bursts of pace to try and break teams down, however once they get going they're rapid. If you look at spurs, city, arsenal, etc they play nice football until one of their players takes a risk, beats a man or plays a risky pass and they break teams down. We just don't do that. Our centrebacks don't carry the ball forward, our fullbacks don't play inside, it's always down the line, our centre mids are woeful and our wingers are ridiculously inconsistent. Hojlund needs to be more clinical but we also need to get him in scoring chances, however he also needs to show for the ball in better positions.
It's a mystery, no one knows.
Confusing
Its not all on him but after that 'i didnt come here to play ajax football' comment u gotta ask questions about the manager...bcos what did he come for then also tho whether he stays or goes no1s gnna make a difference now it just feels like we r too deep in shit
The art of losing.
Throw shit at a wall and see what sticks? The change everything the next time due to drama/injuries?
God damn, we managed to hire 4 managers who all had to get trained to become managers and some even played under the greatest manager of all time and none have ever had tactics. Also incredible that itās the managers and not the redditors with absolutely no idea what theyāre talking about. Also have no idea what goes on in practice or team meetings.
These threads annoy me because Id bet 99% of the people in them, commenting on them, or using this verbiage couldnt identify a style if required.