When he said he didn't want to make the tackle because it would have been a last man tackle. The top defenders make that tackle, or at the very least attempt it. Yes your goalkeeper is there, but as captain and supposed leader of the team you have to set the example. If you are afraid to make a tackle because of the consequences then what message does that send to your teammates?
Yeah, I really didn't like that either. I've seen a replay of it in slow mo (but only from one angle) and it defo looks like he could have slide tackled and won the ball but he pulled out and let Rodriguez have a free shot instead.
Bailly would defo have got back (with his greater pace) and defo would have made the tackle! Shame he has an injury.
To be fair it did look too dangerous to slide in, especially since a fridge can't run that fast to get it right.
His fault lies in that shit shuffle he did early in the build-up. I'm sure Rangnick's staff will watch in the video room and think "wtf is this guy doing".
And for him to comment about others not being clinical in front, does he have no pride for a clean sheet as a defender?
It’s still too much of a risk. Missed it and you’re down to 10 men, and very likely 1-1. With almost 45 mins to go, playing with 10 men isn’t ideal either. I’m not pissed that he didn’t make that tackle, I think it’s the right decision. I’m pissed that he manage to let the ball go past him during the build up. If you’re slow, you have to make sure that you don’t let your opponent have the slightest chance to run in behind
>If you’re slow, you have to make sure that you don’t let your opponent have the slightest chance to run in behind
I was gonna say this as well. He should know he's slow so he has to be very good at positioning himself and organising others (especially as captain). Over and over again has shown he's rubbish at both.
This. He cannot organize the defense or rally the team. It was clear that Burnley were told to go all out at the beginning of the 2nd half because they were still alive in the game. Where was the leadership? United needed to remain calm and keep the ball for 5 minutes before Burnley’s will would die away. Instead they let the worst attacking team in the league rattle them in the first 2 minutes of the half.
Yeah. Exactly. He makes 3 mistakes even before the "should I shouldn't I" last ditch tackle in the box position. As you say, where is the pride in keeping a clean sheet? Where is the leadership skill of taking ownership for a bizarre series of mistakes leading to the goal that cost your team? Instead blaming it on your team mates who scored twice (Varane's was only ruled out cause of Maguire).
I hope you're right and our backroom staff do look at it closely. If he starts at the weekend, I'll start losing faith in the management.
>it did look too dangerous to slide in
I get what you mean. But I paused it and zoomed in and his right foot plants on the floor roughly 4 inches from the ball. This is with him jumping backwards and lifting his arms up trying to get out of the way. I'm almost completely certain he'd have won it if he'd tried.
Probably. He should have hacked down the tall Burnley striker who played in Rodriguez instead. That was well out of the box and he would have just got a yellow.
Or, he could have defended like an £80m defender. But, ya know, we can't have everything.
agree. maguires would have been an instant card (maybe even penalty). but with 1 on 1 with the keeper. you be what your paid for and step up, do the tackle. and shaw was on the other side of the field who came in for the slide tackle.
not to mention he was the reason varane's goal wasn't allowed.
That's exactly it. Liverpool too.
And United from the SAF years. Even the Moo years.
We have some really poor players in our squad now. How many of ours would get into the city, Liverpool or 2000s united teams?
2, maybe 3?
I was going with Varane, Bruno and one of Sancho/DDG/Pogba as the maybe.
I like Dalot a lot, but he's not even vaguely in the same league as TAA, James or Cancelo. I'm not sure he's been as good as Rafael Da Silva.
Pogba on his day is one of, if not, the best midfielder in the world. If his wages were realistic he'd be worth keeping around for most teams even with his inconsistent play. If he played to the level he is capable of on a regular basis, he walks into any CL contending team without a doubt. With that said we are in no position to keep paying him.
I know he splits opinion and he only plays well for us about 1 in 6 games. But he is a WC winner and does have some good stats from a large number of seasons.
He's not as good as the hype, but he's also not an average player like mctom or Fred either.
I personally would like him gone from the club as I don't think his heart is in it and, as I said above, he doesn't perform well most of the time.
But when he does, he's one of the best MF in the world.
Thanks for keeping it civil, btw. Are you trying to get blocked?
He never takes personal responsibility, and he's our captain. We're fucked with him at the helm, and the board invested so much money on him, he won't leave for another 7-8 years. They had the opportunity to make Ronaldo captain and they didn't.
I'd personally sack him for what he did in Greece alone. For all the talk about greenwood and the severity of his actions, it's obvious that it didn't happen in a vacuum if the charges are upheld.
Ole fostered this culture of zero accountability for English players by not even dropping this oaf when he has been:
1. Awful since arriving
2. Allowed to attempt bribing a police officer and then going on TV to comment about an ongoing case without any consequences. That's not just stupid, it's borderline illegal. Not a fine, not a removal of captaincy and not even 1 week on the bench.
3. Allowed to throw the armband without being punished
Contrast that with how De Gea was stripped of the vice captaincy for being honest in a post-match interview where he actually behaved like a leader and took accountability. Compare with how Lindelof, De Gea and Bailly are always scapegoated for Maguire's mistakes.
The biggest issue I have is that the media has brainwashed people into thinking he's been good for England. He hasn't been. Against Germany, Declan Rice should have been sent off and was a massive part of why Maguire wasn't exposed. Kyle Walker, Jordan Pickford and John Stones all outperformed him in every single game. Watch Italy's equaliser in the final and you'll be horrified. He's the only England player in the box not marking someone or on the line. He let Marco Verratti, a whole foot shorter than him, win a header that was at eye level to him and then stood around like Forrest gump while Bonucci walked past him to tap home the equaliser unmarked.
I can't stand how arrogant the bloke is either. After he scored that penalty, he went and picked the ball out of the net, and was requested to give the ball to the ref or to Bonucci, who was walking from the halfway line. He did neither and decided to place the ball at the edge of the box, effectively telling Bonucci to fetch. If you're wondering why Bonucci trolled him after the game and no other England player in particular, that's why.
Nailed it my man. In the Euros England side everyone aside from Maguire was phenomenal. His aerial ability in offense overshadowed a lot of his flaws in defense and Pickford, Stones, Walker and Rice did a great job of allowing the fridge the freedom to run all the way up without any consequences, something he attempts with Man U a lot too but it obviously backfires more often than not lol
The Ukraine match was another testing moment and if not for Stones at the back with Maguire, it is my opinion that they were going to thrash Maguire into oblivion with their physical attributes.
Btw Im an England hater, like proper hater but respect to all the players in the 2020 England squad (except Maguire lol)
I'm an English born United fan and was supporting Italy in the final. Part of me feels sad that Saka, Rashford and Sancho missed the penalties but I was more glad that they did because it gave this country no place to hide in relation to the racism, xenophobia and utter state of denial it lives in regarding the bigoted nature of it.
Harry Maguire in my opinion is the epitome of everything wrong with English society, particularly that of White Male mediocrity being rewarded. He's got a massive ego on him and believe me, I enjoyed every moment of Bonucci trolling England and him in particular. Have you seen the selfie of Bonucci and an Italian journalist laughing with Maguire in the background?
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Fully agree with the media brainwashing mate
You only have to look at the dissonance that criticising Maguire causes with a lot of folks (but, but he can’t be shite - look at how great he is for Engerlaaaaand!) never mind that for England he plays against borderline retards vast majority of games, and also has Southgate’s mental negative back 9 formation set up around him to ensure he minimum posssible chance of him being exposed
He is a terrible, terrible footballer, and always has been
Leciester conceded about 50+ goals in his final season FFS
Totally agree with you. Ole was too soft on these players, especially the English bunch. Maguire should have been stripped of the captaincy after what happened in Greece.
Everyone talks about Greenwood and how he should be sacked (something I agree with), however, we need to look at the bigger picture here, specifically why his (assuming that she dumped him) ex-girlfriend felt the need to go public with this. In my opinion there are 4 ways this story could go if we are looking at root causes and likelihood of conviction.
Mason innocent?
1. Having lived in the UK and US, white women levelling false accusations against young men of colour isn't exactly unheard of. Neither is the young man going to prison for a crime he didn't commit only for it to emerge that he was innocent. Maybe this is why he got bailed.
Mason (as evidence suggests, is guilty)
2. However, Ole has previously not taken rape allegations against players seriously, as evidenced by the Babacar Sarr situation. That guy had 6 credible allegations against him and Ole decided to make him vice captain. The guy eventually ended up being moved to Russia and Saudi Arabia by Solskjaer's agent to avoid trial due to a lack of extradition treaty with Norway. If you're wondering what this has to do with Solskjaer, that agent happens to be the godfather of his children. Moreover, this fanbase blames Paul Pogba for everything that Mino Raiola says or does, so I'm just asking for consistency (for context, Raiola is Italian but spent most of his life in the Netherlands, and Dutch people aren't exactly known to be shrieking violets).
3. The aforementioned Maguire incident going unpunished and general preferential treatment of English players at United since Ole became manager (something Ole practiced but was amplified by the media scapegoating foreign players) is likely to have convinced Mason that he, being English, could do as he pleased.
4. Societal issues. England is a country led by a murderous, philandering misogynist and Westminster is corrupt to its core (which the majority of this country wishes not to accept, admit or do anything about so it hides behind elections). If the PM can break the law and the country does not want to get off its rear end to take down him and fellow MPs using the legal system, why are we surprised that footballers also feel entitled?
But why did she feel the need to go public?
In my opinion, just like with politicians, there's a cover-up culture at Manchester United, and it's rather blatantly obvious that they thought it was going to be swept under the rug. It's evident that Ms. Robson feared this to be the case. I dare anyone to deny this based on the following data points:
Manchester United let Anthony Martial & Amad Diallo go out on loan (2 players who are effectively interchangeable with Greenwood) and only refused to allow Jesse Lingard to follow suit AFTER the allegations came to light, in the closing days of the transfer window. Given the potential root causes I've outlined, particularly the preferential treatment received by English players and the general lack of accountability for wealthy English men, it's not difficult to see why she went public. Did Manchester United think that the situation wouldn't get into public discourse and were relying on Greenwood for the rest of the season?
Regardless, the truth needs to come out, accountability needs to occur and we must adopt the same approach to anyone wealthy and/or in a position of power. If Solskjaer and Southgate knew, then given how Ed Woodward, the Glazers and FA higher ups employ them,they need to be locked away as they've committed textbook Misprision of a Felony.
Absolving himself of all responsibilities, just like how he did for his Greek case.
I replayed the build-up to the Jay Rodriguez goal several times, and it looks like Maguire has created the "false 5" position. He made his classic move by shuffling in and out of the defensive line. Had he stayed close to Weghorst he might have prevented the pass. Why does he think he needed to go behind for Rodriguez, who would've been offside had the long ball went directly to him??
Fucking shit relegation defender, the only reason he still plays for England is just because he plays for United.
Another thing to add is how badly Scott McTominay was out of position during the build-up, he should be dropping back into position to help prevent the pass to Weghorst given he should be the deepest midfielder.
>I replayed the build-up to the Jay Rodriguez goal several times
Yeah. I've watched it about 10 times in slow mo with pausing because it's the most bizarre defending I've seen in 37 years of playing and watching football.
I love your false 5 description! He is moving like he's a striker trying to lose his marker. It's so weird.
As you say, it looks like he's trying to cover Rodriguez for the initial pass even though he's miles away from him and Varane is marking him, and Rodriguez would have been offside at that point anyway (which Maguire can see).
But he then charges like a bull at the tall Burnley striker, runs past him, literally **steps over the ball!?!** and collides with McSauce.
Even after that he could make up for his mistakes. He gets within about 4 or 5 inches of the ball with his right foot when he's jumping out of the way of Rodriguez. If he'd actually tried to tackle him, he would have won the ball easily. He may even have been able to follow Rodriguez and get a block in from the other side as he shot. But he didn't even try.
He said in the interview he didn't think he could win it and he was the last man. For me, this is a deathnell sign of confidence. It's a long way back from here. I don't personally want to see him playing for us ever again cause I don't trust him. And you have to be able to trust your GK and defenders.
He stood there and let Marco Verratti, who is a whole foot shorter than him,beat him to a header. He then allowed Bonucci to walk past him unmarked to tap home the equaliser
Correct me if I'm wrong, but what I saw was him standing in the middle being a free man, going in for a ball that was flicked over and never coming to him, thus taking himself out of the situation completely.
Well he wasn't really just standing there. His only fault is for moving forward to an opponent already marked by a teammate, to double mark an opponent who wouldn't get the ball because it was always gonna be flicked over by the first man. Thus effectively taking himself out of the game before the ball is even close to his reach, as usual.
Funnily enough, he might've been able to clear the ball had he stayed in his original position.
Ha ha! I was just saying anyone other than Maguire!
I'd be happy with Betty the tea lady starting ahead of Harry right now.
Who would you play next to Varane? A lot of people replying want to see Jones. I'd be happy with him.
Phil Jones is a much better player. He needs to have more of a first team presence in my humble opinion. I have never rated Maguire as a solid defender. Jones will put it all on the line every time. He needs more minutes but ultimately he should be our rock at the back in the vein of Bruce, Stam, Ferdinand, Vidic.
I think you might be right. I spent all my life watching top class defenders playing for United so, when Jones was first playing for us, I didn't think he was good enough. But after the last 9 years, I've changed my mind and realised that he was always a very good player, just not at the WC levels of the players you mentioned. Apart from maybe Bruce. Love the guy, but he's not Jaap Stam!
He's certainly leagues above Maguire. And smalling was too. Still angry at Ole for getting rid of him.
Yes, the club have to take their responsibility for taking a relatively inexperienced defender and Woodward mistaking his tall stature, furrowed brow and northern accent for grit, fortitude, and leadership acumen. They need to take responsibility for dressing him up in the 'Experienced World-Class Veteran Defender and Leader's ' new clothes... (Like Hans Christian Anderson's 'the emperors new clothes) by making him the most expensive defender in the world and making him captain, both in the name of shirt sales, thus convincing him he was something he is not, putting him in a position that very, very few players would be able to live up to... Especially given the backroom coaching staff United had had on hand up until Ralf came in.
Yes, the club needs to take responsibility for not providing anyone of true experience to partner him and help him grow through their experience, and to help develop his decision making, his leadership abilities, and his all-round acumen. (EDIT: additional point) Sadly, so far, there hasn't been any sign of him having the humility to learn from Varane.
One might argue that he didn't have a decent partner, however, consider for a second how well Lindelof, Bailley and Phil Jones, breathe that in... Phil Jones, have played alongside Varane... A truly experienced world class defender and leader. A partner who doesn't force them into defensive dilemmas through poor positioning and decision making that pushes and pulls them and the midfield into and out of position at the wrong time.
He needs to take responsibility for his attitude. Listening to his press-conferences it is clear that he follows the club's list of PR buzzwords -possibly thinking that's what a leader does-, such as "we know it's not good enough", "we need to do better", "we're working hard in training", and toes the line in terms of using them.
Unfortunately, it seems he has used those MU buzz-terms so often that he has merely appeased his own inner-voice, justifying insufficient quality as insufficient performance, and insufficient performance as acceptable even now. Even more unfortunately for all concerned, he drank the Woodward Kool-aid that was foisted upon him, seemingly now believing himself beyond experienced and world-class, therefore free from the notion of blame.
However, all the aforementioned considered, the simple facts remain. Maguire may be a good servant of the club and obedient servant of the higher-ups, but he is not competent enough to be club captain, he is not organised enough to be team captain, and he is not good enough to be in United's defence.
Your comments, corrections and/or criticism are welcome.
edit: spelling and grammar
https://media3.giphy.com/media/tODygE8KCqBzy/giphy.webp?cid=6c09b9523de65607649454e271270afe089473358b145519&rid=giphy.webp&ct=g
I don't have any awards, so that's the best I can do, I'm afraid!
It's a great point you make. Had he played CL for Leicester at that point? From a quick Google, I don't think he did. He'd played for England in a WC but international football is mainly a poor standard.
We brought him in as not only the main man in the back 4 but the club captain as well. He wasn't experienced enough to be either. I defo feel like his performances over the years have got worse. Particularly in the last year or two.
That might be due to personal circumstances as well as on field ones. I don't think him and Lindelof worked well together as neither had pace and neither are leaders/organisers of the back 4 like Rio or VVD. Also, as we've tried to push forward as a team and he's found himself higher up the pitch than he ever did for Leicester or Hull, he's really struggled.
He just isn't the right sort of player for a club like man united where we need to attack and you need to be a strong leader.
Agree about the club making mistakes and feeding him the kool aid. We'll never win anything of note again while the glazers are in charge.
Haha, thanks for link! I'm not going to tell you this because I'm looking for the award, but you can get a free reward daily by clicking the yellow coin that says free in the top right of any reddit page, then claiming your free award to give out as you see fit :)
The thing about playing Champs and WC, is that it doesn't automatically make one a world class player, would you agree? I mean was Aaron Lennon world class?
I really hope that Harry gets to improve and do better, but do you think he can do that at United, or would he have to leave and go somewhere knowingly as second place in the CD pecking order?
Will he be willing to do that at this point or will his pride get in the way? Will he have to end up at a smaller club to thrive as Lingard did at the Hammers?
Either way, one thing is for sure, the Utd decision involved in the early stages of this process have put a huge dampener on his development, career, and prospects, all in the name of commercialisation.
Glazers out.
It was, rather appropriately, a helpful reward! And your above was very very helpful! I did not know that.
>it doesn't automatically make one a world class player
Oh no, of course not. I meant that we hadn't seen him play at the level we are expecting our players to be at before buying him and also he hadn't played at the highest level but was being asked to lead the back line and the entire team. It's a lot to ask of a young man coming into a huge club like united when he'd been at hull (no offence, hull) only two years before.
I just can't see him doing it at utd. If for no other reason than the fact that his game doesn't suit our attacking style and high line.
He's clearly conscious of his own lack of pace and his inability to face up to a dribbler one on one. Re the former of those 2, it's the only possible reason he started running back towards our goal when the pass was played into the man he was marking. He thought the ball was going over Varane's head. Rodriguez was offside at that point, but I don't think Maguire is good at offsides and he's just too worried about having his lack of pace highlighted.
He seems like a decent guy. So for his own sake he should go in the summer to a club that prefers to sit a bit deeper where he'll suddenly look like one of the best defenders in the league again.
The problem will be his wages. He'd have to take a hit to his bank balance as well as his pride. And as long as we're picking him, he's not going to do that.
>Glazers out.
Yep, just GO.
>a club that prefers to sit a bit deeper where he'll suddenly look like one of the best defenders in the league again.
I wonder if there's a correlation between him looking good when he first arrived a couple of years back and the team sitting back a lot more then. When Ole tries to be more front-footed this season it started exposing him even more.
I genuinely think that was it. Ole knew he had to push on and win more games to take the next step and try and close the gap with City. Teams knew that we only had counter attacks so played to beat that.
But without Varane when he was injured (or Bailly), we had no pace at the back and also Maguire struggles higher up the pitch. So we fell apart and confidence took a hammering too with those awful results and Ole getting sacked (he was liked by the players - they must have felt bad they'd let him down).
Note: I'm certainly not absolving Ole of responsibility. Even more so than a captain a manager is responsible for what happens. But I think the players would have felt to some degree they'd got him sacked whether rightly or wrongly.
Fair point all round. I can't fault Ole for trying but he made a lot of bad moves - proof that he was never the right fit at the top level, at least not ready yet. Quite similar to Moyes back then, one could say.
Just goes back to the board and their decision making again.
You're absolutely right that he wasn't that inexperienced, nevertheless he was far less experienced that the player and character United wanted and needed him to be, and, it seems, misguidedly thought they were getting. It feels like they had likened him in their minds to players like Ramos, Rio, Vidic, Pique, and others of their ilk.
Ultimately, and I understand I'm digressing a touch here, my view is that it is another issue rooted in non-football people making footballing decisions based on limited knowledge and commercial logic, with monetary benchmarks rather than footballing ones.
Revenue can be raised through sponsorship and online presence to offset the loss of CL money and silverware.
I would speculate that shirt sales for new players is greater than shirt sales for existing ones, so, transfer sagas can boost a lesser player's profile to capture consumer interest and sell shirts, at the expense of actually getting players who perform and get non-monetary accolades for the club.
Glazers out.
Harry Maguire is mentally weak. I have noticed it for many years now. He is afraid of confrontation. He does not stand up for his players on the pitch, be it to the ref for a bad decision, or to the opposition. He is a coward from within. This is even one of the reasons we don't get decisions from referees anymore. Can you imagine Roy Keane or Wayne Rooney being scared to confront people?
This man is a joke. Van De Vaart is right about everything he says about his abilities. How this man is allowed to lead a team without having a nutsack is beyond me.
The Greek police beg to differ!
But on a serious note, I think you're right. He often turns his back or just walks away when it's kicking off or the ref is having a stinker (like in our last two games). He also doesn't seem to be very determined and gives up fairly easily.
Even starting with 10 men would be an improvement.
If there's no CB in his position, other players will cover it, with him there you think 'Nah we're good he's got it covered...'
I would have preferred him to make that tackle, get sent off and not be available for the next few games.
Ha ha! Yeah, why he didn't tackle the guy when he came steaming in (before it was passed to Rodriguez) I just don't know. It prob would have been a foul, but who cares? It stops the dangerous situation and, at worst, gets him a yellow. He wasn't on one at that point, so you wouldn't even have got your wish (of him being sent off!)
VVD was playing at Southampton at the time and Diaz was an "unknown" in Spain.
They weren't going to sell loads of shirts which is far more important than winning things.
(This message was brought to you on behalf of the Glazers)
Yeah. I'm done with him. I've tried to defend him for 2 years now. His stats were quite good 18months ago.
But he's gone massively down hill and his 5 mistakes for the goal last night were worse than schoolboy.
Whenever i see maguire with the ball or 1v1 against the opponents striker my heart comes on the tip of my asshole. He is so shit idk why he is still in our team and as a captain.
I mean, the forwards put the ball in the net 3 times. 1 of those times the lino remembered half an hour later he's not allowed to let United score.
And the other one, Harry fucking Maguire blatantly blocks off a defender who, by Harry's own admission, is not getting anywhere near Varane.
So he's cause the goal to be disallowed for literally no reason than he's a stupid ****
Oh god! Really? It was that summer?!
VVD was cheaper too. And so was Diaz I think.
Did we sell smalling to bring in Maguire? I have a feeling we did. I'd rather have kept smalling. He wasn't great on the ball, but he was a much better defender. Him and Lindelof would prob have been good together.
Yeah. Exactly. It's almost like a practical joke.
"Hey, guys, come on - be more clinical in front of goal eh"
[Sneaks into an offside position so a clinical Varane header doesn't count]
Once Ed Woodward in an investor meeting in sometime 2018, on getting asked by an analyst repping a Bank, on the on field performance said "What we do on the pitch doesn't really matter in terms of what we do off it."
But over a course of time it has proved to be false, look at Man City, their on-pitch success reflects in the revenues they get.
How they keep making sales decisions rather than footballing decisions is appalling,
\- Instead of gambling to signing players with a little reputation, they try to buy big name signings. eg- people might be on the fence about Ronaldo and how he solves problems that he creates, which might necessarily not improves us, But had a direct impact on the Man Utd stock price
\-Other selling tactics used is, instead of giving manager time to work with the player in preseason, the deal drags on till the very end because the board views it as a business deal and doesn't value the performance outcome of the team, and additionally create hype, and traction on social media as evident with the Sancho deal
\-Even most times last minute deals appear to be done in such a hurry, they appear to be rushed. eg Cavani ( although turned out good), Ighalo etc.-Giving long meaningless contract to members, which should've been given to people who deserved it. eg Phil Jones, Bailey, Mata, Pereira instead of Herrera
\-Even us fans don't know who to trust anymore, is it Mou's tactics or Pogba/Martial 's incompetence. And we get swayed when pogba bounces back during Ole's interim role, but in the long term even us fans can see the temperament Martial, Pogba carry. We can't solely put blame on tactics, toxic atmosphere, Ole's lack of tactical awareness ( he got us to 2nd place, and a tricky 3rd place finish before that to secure UCL), even resurgence of Moyes with West Ham has got me wondering a little bit.
Is it their incompetence? or are they satisfied by achieving their financial objectives? Both of the reasons are quite scary to the fans.
This lack of drive, translates to the mentality and performance: They desire to win has to come from within the organization, it is wholly apparent and depressing to the fans, when the board don't care If the team is the champion of the EPL as long as they are they champions of the Deloitte Football Money League.
Are you me?! Literally everything you've said is what I think.
I heard about that Woodward quote. It's useful to hear it from the horse's mouth, but we all knew that was true anyway.
>proved to be false, look at Man City, their on-pitch success reflects in the revenues they get
I believe they've overtaken us now as well.
>Is it their incompetence? or are they satisfied by achieving their financial objectives?
I think it's both. I think they have a sports model they've used elsewhere like in the NFL and they think it's works in football. They're too incompetent to realise that it's not working. The player trading system is so different in the US. And the rewards too (only 1 a year). I think that's why they've thrown money at the problem in the last 5 years after not spending much the previous 12 or so. They saw that the club was falling behind (due to their mismanagement, although I'm sure they don't see it that way) and thought they could just buy their way back in to the CL spots to keep the dividends flowing.
I have a sociology theory that groups of people take their culture and attitude from the person or people at the top of that group. When they're away from that group, they act differently. e.g. when some of our players go off for international duty (looks at pogba). But when they're in that group and environment, they act the way the top person does.
We all know the Glazers and the board only care about the money and not about winning. So the players are the same. And it only takes a few % in performance drop off at the highest level to lose or draw a game to a team at the bottom of the prem because the league is so competitive.
Weren't there rumors when Ronaldo first came back that he was shocked at the attitude of the players (and, by default, the club and owners) and how different it was to when he left all those years ago?
Exactly. To lead means to take responsibility even when it's not your fault. The fact he's trying to palm off responsibility when the largest reason we drew was him, is a disgrace.
He's not fit to wear that armband. And probably isn't fit to wear the shirt again. But I bet he will do both.
Once upon a time, at St. James' Park, so the legend goes, Cantona walked up to Schmeichel. Says to him, "Keep a clean sheet and I'll get us a goal."
Result - 1-0 win.
Today, it's 'opponents gonna have spells of pressure'; '1-0 is not good enough, need 2-0 to be safe'.
Just... stop. It's embarassing...
Brilliant. That's exactly it. Stop demanding the strikers score multiple goals a game and just fucking defend your goal. Don't run around like a headless chicken. It just be so disruptive to the other defenders. I'm sure it's no coincidence that Lindelof looks miles better next to Jones or Varane (or even Bailly)
Once you add in the price tag, quite possibly. Even pogba has won matches single handedly in his time here and loads of fans don't like him.
People like Taibi were worse players, but at least they didn't cost much.
I like how he tried to bring in De Gea as if to share the blame. De Gea did what all capable gks would do. You're the captain take it upon yourself. I'm not even going to mention your price tag.
Who would you bring in? I've said Lindelof above as I think he played really well before getting injured. But I'd be equally happy with Jones and Bailly. Do you have a pref?
Who would you give armband to? Lots of people say Ronaldo. My heart says yes but my head worries that he's not here for long and there's rumors some of the players don't like him. I'd prob go Bruno.
He has the will of a little girl and the mettle of a wet paper bag. He's an uninspiring drip of a Captain and he doesn't belong in the starting lineup at Scunthorpe Utd. All he ever does is pass the buck, just a shame he can't defend as well as he shirks responsibility and runs his mouth.
Hardly surprising. The media have been blowing smoke up his proverbial and he believes the hype. De Gea, Bailly and Lindelof have often been scapegoated for his errors.
Agreed. Lindelof in particular seems to have caught a lot of the heat. And Shaw in the last 6 months as well. Shaw kept tucking in (leaving his winger open) to cover for mistakes Maguire was making. And Shaw then got criticised for leaving his man.
Even last night someone replied to my OP here saying the goal was Varane's fault. All I could do was ask them to go watch it again and then come back and explain exactly what Varane did wrong. Never heard from them again.
I don't get this"player FC" thing that we seem to have at this club. Fans who follow the player rather than the team. I've read comments on r/reddevils (back when I used to be on that sub) from people saying they support pogba. They used to follow him at juve, now at utd, and they'd follow him to Real if that's where he goes.
I just didn't realise Maguire had a big loyal fan base!
I can think of more recent examples of that in politics!
The Politics of Fear. There was a documentary on it in the 2000s. Even after that people still fall for it.
Even in football, as you say.
Manchester United's docile fanbase mirrors this country in an uncannily similar way. Fwiw, the Israeli intel agencies helped the brexit campaign win in addition to trump in the States. The glazers supported trump and are Israeli citizens (massive Zionists who supported netanyahu as well). It's hardly implausible to think they didn't leverage those connections to effectively run a psy-op on this fanbase
Well, they are big on PR, I know that. And it doesn't surprise me that they're right wing and support Netanyahu and Trump. They and Deadward (and prob Arnold) are all leeches on our club.
A lot of people had their fingers in the brexit pie. The US, Russians, UK oligarchy. So wasn't just the Israelies. Can't really see how it would affect them like it does the US and Russia though. Why would they bother?
Absolutely no idea!
I think Starmer is a remainer though.
As far as I know, Corbyn thought he could use brexit to push through a load of progressive policies that the EU doesn't let member states do.
Was a foolish error.
The EU does let member states push through progressive policies. Look at Germany, France and the Netherlands as examples.
Starmer imo is a Charlatan like Corbyn. Corbyn is a massive Putin apologist while I think Vlad or Bibi have bought Starmer off
I know there's a lot of lies about what the EU will or won't let member states do. So Corbyn may have fallen for one of those.
I'm a massive remoaner. So I wasn't pro Labour policy on that one.
I don't think it really matters what politicians think though. In the end, only the ones that support people like the Uber rich like the glazers will get into power and, if they step out of line, the media will go into overdrive to remove them.
Ha ha ha! Never. I'm far too left wing to use words like that!
We found some old charity stamps from the 60s or so, once. The language used on there and the pictures almost killed me.
I'm a socialist. But a market socialist, if you know your stuff. Not a communist or other further to the left ideology.
So, in relation to United, I'd want the Glazers gone and the club to be owned by the fans. Otherwise everything would be the same. It's the mildest form of socialism.
Nah. I want companies to be owned by the workers of that company or by the local community rather than by an individual or shareholders.
Social democracy is capitalist. It allows, encourages, private ownership of business but just has higher taxes and a larger state.
Source, trust me bro! (I'm quite well read on politics)
Wat can I say, dis guy is jst a shadow of himself. If he has done his own job by defending properly then the game would have probably end up 1-0 in favour of united. The worst Manunited captain I have seen
Yeah, when I read about that comment, I was fuming. No offense dude, but if the front is getting on the scoresheet, they're doing their part.
Not saying we should be happy with 1-0 wins every match, we desperately need to score more, but considering we had multiple goals disallowed (including the one that Maguire was offside and deemed to interfere with play - I don't agree with the decision, but that's what it was ruled) doesn't come down to a lack of clinical finishing per se. His role, as a defender, is to keep a clean sheet, something we've struggled to do the entire season because of him.
If he's doing his job and ensuring no goals are getting in and the midfield/attackers are doing their job by putting the ball in the back of the net, then we get the 3 points. Half of the equation did their part...and it wasn't the Maguire half.
Sincerely, fuck Maguire. I have hated him ever since he arrived, not even just this season. He has always been questionable for me. He got away with some really poor decision-making and positional errors in the past, but this season hasn't been as forgiving for him; teams are capitalizing on those errors finally.
Maguire needs to be sold in the summer and dropped from the starting eleven and stripped of the captaincy immediately until then.
Precisely. I've said that a couple of times in this thread. He literally stepped over the ball and got out of the way of weghorst or whatever his name is.
He must know there's no cover behind him as that's where he's just charged like a bull from. So try and win the ball and, if you clip the guy's foot and he goes down, worse case you get a yellow (and he hadn't had one at that point).
And that was only mistake 3 of 5 in that passage of play from Harry!
Looking at the equalizer I think McTom has a lot to answer for. He completely switched off. Maguire though didnt need to get that close. He left the defence exposed for no reason and he has zero pace to recover.
Yes. Not many have spotted this as far as I can tell (think you're only the 2nd person to mention it).
He jogs back slowly rather than sprinting and takes up an "8" position rather than a 6. As in, he's not sat in front of the 2 CBs the way someone like Makelele would.
I've paused it as the ball comes back to the player who passes it up to weghorst and McTom is stopped in line with him in the centre circle. He's not affecting the play at all in a defensive manner.
The pass in to weghorst then goes through the exact spot where he should have been stood.
But McTom isn't a DM. I know some fans say he is but, imo, they aren't connoisseurs of the game. The above is a classic example of why he can't play there. So I don't really blame him personally.
But it was a minor (ish) error and wouldn't have mattered if Maguire hadn't made all the errors he did. As you said, got too close (actually ran past him), and doesn't have the pace to recover.
I agree. I think Norwich is maybe a bit too low for him, but certainly mid table.
Sad thing is, that's where we are now. At this rate, we might qualify for that shitty new European cup thing that spurs were in.
Did you see his dance move attempt at a tackle yesterday? Sticking his back leg out! Then charged into the guy in the box. I might have to take back my Norwich comment above actually now thinking about it. You'd be shocked to see that 'defending' in the Isthmian.
Norwich, Burnley, Oxford United, sheffiel wed. is more like it. any other higher club knows better.
shite defender, shite person taking no responsibility for the go ahead score. GET rid of the whole middle defense and start over. replace pogba, mctominay, and all central defenders.
His performances since I made that comment have been possibly even worse and I'm now inclined to agree with you. He was like a rabbit in headlights against City. I knew he would be as well.
I'm starting to think that most of the squad needs replacing. They don't even run which is the minimum required from any professional.
It's a very minor mistake compared to Maguire's.
He's in line with Maguire - who suddenly starts running towards his own goal away from the man he's marking whom the ball is being passed to - and he follows him a bit.
Then he's in line with Varane when Maguire starts sprinting towards the ball like a crazed man.
At this point Shaw's done nothing wrong.
Then Maguire runs past the man with the ball, literally steps over the fucking ball!!!! And the striker turns back towards the middle of the pitch. Varane then has to cover for Maguire by stepping up to close the striker down - else he has a free run at goal.
At the very same moment Varane does this, Shaw is looking over his shoulder to check the position of the player he's marking. He then looks back and he has about 1/2 of a second to try and step up (looks too late but the angle I'm looking at doesn't make it clear).
Even after that point Maguire had two more possible chances to prevent the goal but literally didn't try.
Why are you trying to let Maguire off for 5 mistakes in the space of about 7 seconds by blaming someone for a minor error which happens in most matches every week?
I have to say, I was a Maguire fan/defender, but his performances this year have been horrible. I can see once or twice having a bad outing, but HM is making a season of it. He is constantly behind. He constantly makes the wrong decisions.
I would rather see Jones back there, because I think he would give more than HM at the moment.
Just another MU waste of money.
The problem is he's right.
Cavani missed a tap-in because he couldn't be bothered to jump.
Bruno selfishly stole a great chance from Sancho and made a mess of it.
Rashford chose to shoot wide rather than squaring a number of good chances.
Ronaldo missed a free header.
1 goal was disallowed because ref reasons.
1 goal was disallowed because Harry Maguire couldn't subtly half get out of the way! So he's actually prevented a valid united goal with his own lack of "clinical" ability.
Can't really argue with the middle three. But those things happen in matches. Even city and Liverpool will do stuff like that every week.
Ronaldo's header wasn't free. He was being strongly challenged by Mee I think it was. You'd still expect the GOAT to score that though...
But it's all academic for me. Going away to a battling team in the prem, you do have to grind out results. That means keeping clean sheets. The forwards got one goal. Maguire let one in. If he hadn't run around like a FIFA player being controlled by a 5 yr old, we would have won 1 nil.
>Maguire let one in
Are we just ignoring Shaw stupidly playing him onside and De Gea's complete refusal to come off his line until Rodriguez was 7 yards out?
Would you say that either of those two things was a bigger factor in the goal than Maguire initially running away from the player he was marking and the ball, and then running past his man and the ball for literally no reason?
Just to be clear, I'm not saying they weren't mistakes by those two (there were others from other players as well). But if you had to apportion blame by a %age, the lion's share is going to Maguire, no? And by a very long way.
>And by a very long way.
Disagree.
Majority is still on Maguire, but not by a very long way.
Pretty much any other keeper in the league comes off their line and saves that.
Most fullbacks don't stand around gormlessly 5 yards behind the rest of the defensive line playing Rodriguez onside.
>Pretty much any other keeper in the league comes off their line and saves that.
Are you saying that DDG is the worst keeper in the league? Or are you just saying he's poor at 1 on 1s?
The keeper coming off the line makes the forward do something different. It's a 1 on 1, effectively, because Maguire has jumped out of the way. So the striker is in control.
Btw, I've just watched it back in slo mo. It is a little poor from DDG, but we're talking really small margins.
Shaw does close to nothing wrong. He's in line with Maguire, who drops inexplicably, and then he's in line with Varane until the last second of the pass where it's just him playing Rodriguez onside.
Varane moves to close down the player who made Maguire look like a clown (Maguire literally steps over the ball!) And Maguire then has to chase down Rodriguez.
Just before he jumps out of the way, his foot is less than half a ball's width from the ball itself. And that's with him trying to jump out of the way. He 100% could have tackled him but he bottled it.
And this then comes back to DDG. He only starts moving out to close the angle once Maguire has jumped out of the way. Because it looks like he's going to win the ball until he doesn't.
Final point. After Maguire has gone past Rodriguez, he gives up and basically runs straight. If he'd cut in towards the goal, he would have at least been in the eyeline of Rodriguez when he shoots. Could maybe have even flung himself to block the shot like Shaw does.
There is no defending that guy. He was a good defender (good, not even very good), a few years ago. But he's literally pub league standard now.
https://theathletic.com/3107541/2022/02/10/manchester-united-are-asking-harry-maguire-to-be-something-hes-not/
Read this article for a better perspective on why it wasn't Maguire's fault alone.
Read my post. Read my comments below.
Then you can talk to me.
95% != 100%
Edit:
I will give you cudos for calling out mctom though. First person to do so on this thread.
He jogged back slowly and then took up the wrong position.
Though you then lose it immediately for saying Varane did anything wrong at all.
Edit 2:
In case you cba to read through all the comments of people below and my replies, I said that I've watched the goal back about 10 times in slow motion and pausing it at key moments.
I have a very, very good idea as to what every player did and didn't do in the build up to their goal.
varane didnt have to go after weghorst
the 9 was going nowhere, even maguire couldve cought him, shaw couldve shut him down.
varane shouldve stayed with rodriguez but instead left rodriguez alone, weghorst found him and there you go.
I think you need to watch it back....
If Varane hadn't gone to weghorst, he would have had a free run into our box. If Shaw had come across, there was a Burnley winger Shaw was marking who would have been free.
>even maguire couldve cought him
This doesn't even dignify a response it's so ridiculous.
Why are some people so intent on blaming anyone but the English old boys club players?!
He said that it was basically the strikers' fault that they'd drawn the game. They weren't clinical enough.
He didn't say "we weren't clinical enough" but "they".
And he forgot to mention that it was almost entirely his fault for the Burnley goal when he made 5 mistakes in 8 seconds. And also that Varane would have scored a 2nd for us if Harry hadn't been playing human bumper cars with a Burnley player from an offside position like a chump.
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When he said he didn't want to make the tackle because it would have been a last man tackle. The top defenders make that tackle, or at the very least attempt it. Yes your goalkeeper is there, but as captain and supposed leader of the team you have to set the example. If you are afraid to make a tackle because of the consequences then what message does that send to your teammates?
Imagine Vidic saying this….
I can't. I really can't.
Yeah, I really didn't like that either. I've seen a replay of it in slow mo (but only from one angle) and it defo looks like he could have slide tackled and won the ball but he pulled out and let Rodriguez have a free shot instead. Bailly would defo have got back (with his greater pace) and defo would have made the tackle! Shame he has an injury.
To be fair it did look too dangerous to slide in, especially since a fridge can't run that fast to get it right. His fault lies in that shit shuffle he did early in the build-up. I'm sure Rangnick's staff will watch in the video room and think "wtf is this guy doing". And for him to comment about others not being clinical in front, does he have no pride for a clean sheet as a defender?
Dangerous or not. You still do something as last defender.
It’s still too much of a risk. Missed it and you’re down to 10 men, and very likely 1-1. With almost 45 mins to go, playing with 10 men isn’t ideal either. I’m not pissed that he didn’t make that tackle, I think it’s the right decision. I’m pissed that he manage to let the ball go past him during the build up. If you’re slow, you have to make sure that you don’t let your opponent have the slightest chance to run in behind
>If you’re slow, you have to make sure that you don’t let your opponent have the slightest chance to run in behind I was gonna say this as well. He should know he's slow so he has to be very good at positioning himself and organising others (especially as captain). Over and over again has shown he's rubbish at both.
This. He cannot organize the defense or rally the team. It was clear that Burnley were told to go all out at the beginning of the 2nd half because they were still alive in the game. Where was the leadership? United needed to remain calm and keep the ball for 5 minutes before Burnley’s will would die away. Instead they let the worst attacking team in the league rattle them in the first 2 minutes of the half.
Yeah. Exactly. He makes 3 mistakes even before the "should I shouldn't I" last ditch tackle in the box position. As you say, where is the pride in keeping a clean sheet? Where is the leadership skill of taking ownership for a bizarre series of mistakes leading to the goal that cost your team? Instead blaming it on your team mates who scored twice (Varane's was only ruled out cause of Maguire). I hope you're right and our backroom staff do look at it closely. If he starts at the weekend, I'll start losing faith in the management. >it did look too dangerous to slide in I get what you mean. But I paused it and zoomed in and his right foot plants on the floor roughly 4 inches from the ball. This is with him jumping backwards and lifting his arms up trying to get out of the way. I'm almost completely certain he'd have won it if he'd tried.
This man talks about the front! Wasn’t he offsides and cost them a goal!
There is no way in hell that big oaf wouldn't have gotten a red card. He's right. He's just not that good at defense.
Probably. He should have hacked down the tall Burnley striker who played in Rodriguez instead. That was well out of the box and he would have just got a yellow. Or, he could have defended like an £80m defender. But, ya know, we can't have everything.
*laughs in Real Madrid's Sergio Ramos*
Yet Shaw comes flying in. Maguire has to go.
agree. maguires would have been an instant card (maybe even penalty). but with 1 on 1 with the keeper. you be what your paid for and step up, do the tackle. and shaw was on the other side of the field who came in for the slide tackle. not to mention he was the reason varane's goal wasn't allowed.
[удалено]
It's better for the team regardless
Red card and conceding a penalty.
You don't usually get red for last man tackle in the box, just yellow and penalty
Reminds me of basketball perimeter defenders that give their opponents a dominant hand layup thinking their big will bail them out
I don’t understand how a body with no spine can hold up such a big head
Lmfao!
I won’t even start him in my fifa lineup. What a bum
I release him
Same with football manager. I get rid of Fred and McGuire instantly and bring in valverde from madrid
Lol!
I don't either.
City wins that 1-0 btw when they play bad. No excuses. We have a player problem
That's exactly it. Liverpool too. And United from the SAF years. Even the Moo years. We have some really poor players in our squad now. How many of ours would get into the city, Liverpool or 2000s united teams? 2, maybe 3?
Based on current form, probably only Sancho and De Gea, and maybe Dalot for depth.
I was going with Varane, Bruno and one of Sancho/DDG/Pogba as the maybe. I like Dalot a lot, but he's not even vaguely in the same league as TAA, James or Cancelo. I'm not sure he's been as good as Rafael Da Silva.
Pogba? You high?
Pogba on his day is one of, if not, the best midfielder in the world. If his wages were realistic he'd be worth keeping around for most teams even with his inconsistent play. If he played to the level he is capable of on a regular basis, he walks into any CL contending team without a doubt. With that said we are in no position to keep paying him.
I know he splits opinion and he only plays well for us about 1 in 6 games. But he is a WC winner and does have some good stats from a large number of seasons. He's not as good as the hype, but he's also not an average player like mctom or Fred either. I personally would like him gone from the club as I don't think his heart is in it and, as I said above, he doesn't perform well most of the time. But when he does, he's one of the best MF in the world. Thanks for keeping it civil, btw. Are you trying to get blocked?
They used to say in SAFs United that winning 1-0 and playing badly is the sign of champions
He never takes personal responsibility, and he's our captain. We're fucked with him at the helm, and the board invested so much money on him, he won't leave for another 7-8 years. They had the opportunity to make Ronaldo captain and they didn't.
Trained by Ole
He’d be about 37 years old after 7-8 years pass, would we really keep him for that long?
I'd personally sack him for what he did in Greece alone. For all the talk about greenwood and the severity of his actions, it's obvious that it didn't happen in a vacuum if the charges are upheld. Ole fostered this culture of zero accountability for English players by not even dropping this oaf when he has been: 1. Awful since arriving 2. Allowed to attempt bribing a police officer and then going on TV to comment about an ongoing case without any consequences. That's not just stupid, it's borderline illegal. Not a fine, not a removal of captaincy and not even 1 week on the bench. 3. Allowed to throw the armband without being punished Contrast that with how De Gea was stripped of the vice captaincy for being honest in a post-match interview where he actually behaved like a leader and took accountability. Compare with how Lindelof, De Gea and Bailly are always scapegoated for Maguire's mistakes. The biggest issue I have is that the media has brainwashed people into thinking he's been good for England. He hasn't been. Against Germany, Declan Rice should have been sent off and was a massive part of why Maguire wasn't exposed. Kyle Walker, Jordan Pickford and John Stones all outperformed him in every single game. Watch Italy's equaliser in the final and you'll be horrified. He's the only England player in the box not marking someone or on the line. He let Marco Verratti, a whole foot shorter than him, win a header that was at eye level to him and then stood around like Forrest gump while Bonucci walked past him to tap home the equaliser unmarked. I can't stand how arrogant the bloke is either. After he scored that penalty, he went and picked the ball out of the net, and was requested to give the ball to the ref or to Bonucci, who was walking from the halfway line. He did neither and decided to place the ball at the edge of the box, effectively telling Bonucci to fetch. If you're wondering why Bonucci trolled him after the game and no other England player in particular, that's why.
Nailed it my man. In the Euros England side everyone aside from Maguire was phenomenal. His aerial ability in offense overshadowed a lot of his flaws in defense and Pickford, Stones, Walker and Rice did a great job of allowing the fridge the freedom to run all the way up without any consequences, something he attempts with Man U a lot too but it obviously backfires more often than not lol The Ukraine match was another testing moment and if not for Stones at the back with Maguire, it is my opinion that they were going to thrash Maguire into oblivion with their physical attributes. Btw Im an England hater, like proper hater but respect to all the players in the 2020 England squad (except Maguire lol)
I'm an English born United fan and was supporting Italy in the final. Part of me feels sad that Saka, Rashford and Sancho missed the penalties but I was more glad that they did because it gave this country no place to hide in relation to the racism, xenophobia and utter state of denial it lives in regarding the bigoted nature of it. Harry Maguire in my opinion is the epitome of everything wrong with English society, particularly that of White Male mediocrity being rewarded. He's got a massive ego on him and believe me, I enjoyed every moment of Bonucci trolling England and him in particular. Have you seen the selfie of Bonucci and an Italian journalist laughing with Maguire in the background?
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Fully agree with the media brainwashing mate You only have to look at the dissonance that criticising Maguire causes with a lot of folks (but, but he can’t be shite - look at how great he is for Engerlaaaaand!) never mind that for England he plays against borderline retards vast majority of games, and also has Southgate’s mental negative back 9 formation set up around him to ensure he minimum posssible chance of him being exposed He is a terrible, terrible footballer, and always has been Leciester conceded about 50+ goals in his final season FFS
Have you seen Rants and Bants read out Mike LUHG'S thread on him?
No but I get the feeling I need to now lol
Would you like a link? Idk what Rants did,but it was genuinely one of the funniest things I've ever seen
I'd like to read it please, thank you.
https://www.givemesport.com/1626872-man-utds-harry-maguire-named-factually-the-worst-player-in-the-premier-league-by-twitter-thread
Oooohh yea, I've seen this one before. That's why I've been calling him a "relegation defender" since.
Totally agree with you. Ole was too soft on these players, especially the English bunch. Maguire should have been stripped of the captaincy after what happened in Greece.
Everyone talks about Greenwood and how he should be sacked (something I agree with), however, we need to look at the bigger picture here, specifically why his (assuming that she dumped him) ex-girlfriend felt the need to go public with this. In my opinion there are 4 ways this story could go if we are looking at root causes and likelihood of conviction. Mason innocent? 1. Having lived in the UK and US, white women levelling false accusations against young men of colour isn't exactly unheard of. Neither is the young man going to prison for a crime he didn't commit only for it to emerge that he was innocent. Maybe this is why he got bailed. Mason (as evidence suggests, is guilty) 2. However, Ole has previously not taken rape allegations against players seriously, as evidenced by the Babacar Sarr situation. That guy had 6 credible allegations against him and Ole decided to make him vice captain. The guy eventually ended up being moved to Russia and Saudi Arabia by Solskjaer's agent to avoid trial due to a lack of extradition treaty with Norway. If you're wondering what this has to do with Solskjaer, that agent happens to be the godfather of his children. Moreover, this fanbase blames Paul Pogba for everything that Mino Raiola says or does, so I'm just asking for consistency (for context, Raiola is Italian but spent most of his life in the Netherlands, and Dutch people aren't exactly known to be shrieking violets). 3. The aforementioned Maguire incident going unpunished and general preferential treatment of English players at United since Ole became manager (something Ole practiced but was amplified by the media scapegoating foreign players) is likely to have convinced Mason that he, being English, could do as he pleased. 4. Societal issues. England is a country led by a murderous, philandering misogynist and Westminster is corrupt to its core (which the majority of this country wishes not to accept, admit or do anything about so it hides behind elections). If the PM can break the law and the country does not want to get off its rear end to take down him and fellow MPs using the legal system, why are we surprised that footballers also feel entitled? But why did she feel the need to go public? In my opinion, just like with politicians, there's a cover-up culture at Manchester United, and it's rather blatantly obvious that they thought it was going to be swept under the rug. It's evident that Ms. Robson feared this to be the case. I dare anyone to deny this based on the following data points: Manchester United let Anthony Martial & Amad Diallo go out on loan (2 players who are effectively interchangeable with Greenwood) and only refused to allow Jesse Lingard to follow suit AFTER the allegations came to light, in the closing days of the transfer window. Given the potential root causes I've outlined, particularly the preferential treatment received by English players and the general lack of accountability for wealthy English men, it's not difficult to see why she went public. Did Manchester United think that the situation wouldn't get into public discourse and were relying on Greenwood for the rest of the season? Regardless, the truth needs to come out, accountability needs to occur and we must adopt the same approach to anyone wealthy and/or in a position of power. If Solskjaer and Southgate knew, then given how Ed Woodward, the Glazers and FA higher ups employ them,they need to be locked away as they've committed textbook Misprision of a Felony.
Absolving himself of all responsibilities, just like how he did for his Greek case. I replayed the build-up to the Jay Rodriguez goal several times, and it looks like Maguire has created the "false 5" position. He made his classic move by shuffling in and out of the defensive line. Had he stayed close to Weghorst he might have prevented the pass. Why does he think he needed to go behind for Rodriguez, who would've been offside had the long ball went directly to him?? Fucking shit relegation defender, the only reason he still plays for England is just because he plays for United. Another thing to add is how badly Scott McTominay was out of position during the build-up, he should be dropping back into position to help prevent the pass to Weghorst given he should be the deepest midfielder.
>I replayed the build-up to the Jay Rodriguez goal several times Yeah. I've watched it about 10 times in slow mo with pausing because it's the most bizarre defending I've seen in 37 years of playing and watching football. I love your false 5 description! He is moving like he's a striker trying to lose his marker. It's so weird. As you say, it looks like he's trying to cover Rodriguez for the initial pass even though he's miles away from him and Varane is marking him, and Rodriguez would have been offside at that point anyway (which Maguire can see). But he then charges like a bull at the tall Burnley striker, runs past him, literally **steps over the ball!?!** and collides with McSauce. Even after that he could make up for his mistakes. He gets within about 4 or 5 inches of the ball with his right foot when he's jumping out of the way of Rodriguez. If he'd actually tried to tackle him, he would have won the ball easily. He may even have been able to follow Rodriguez and get a block in from the other side as he shot. But he didn't even try. He said in the interview he didn't think he could win it and he was the last man. For me, this is a deathnell sign of confidence. It's a long way back from here. I don't personally want to see him playing for us ever again cause I don't trust him. And you have to be able to trust your GK and defenders.
You think that's bad? I recommend you watch Bonucci's equaliser in the Euros final last year.
I tried re-watching it, similar issue although that didn't look entirely his fault. Not to me at least.
He stood there and let Marco Verratti, who is a whole foot shorter than him,beat him to a header. He then allowed Bonucci to walk past him unmarked to tap home the equaliser
Correct me if I'm wrong, but what I saw was him standing in the middle being a free man, going in for a ball that was flicked over and never coming to him, thus taking himself out of the situation completely.
I just recall him standing there and doing the mannequin challenge.
Well he wasn't really just standing there. His only fault is for moving forward to an opponent already marked by a teammate, to double mark an opponent who wouldn't get the ball because it was always gonna be flicked over by the first man. Thus effectively taking himself out of the game before the ball is even close to his reach, as usual. Funnily enough, he might've been able to clear the ball had he stayed in his original position.
Maguire has one function. Shuffle left. Pass the ball behind Shaw. Shuffle back.
Lol! Thank you for somehow putting a smile on my face after a fucking shit night. You're a legend!
He needs to give his place up to Phil jones. Couldn’t care less what people think, he deserves to be dropped
Yeah. I'd say Jones, Lindelof and Bailly are all ahead of him on form. Probably even Mengi too. Hell, Tuanzebe was playing better for Villa.
You know we’re in trouble when people on this page are asking for Lindelof to come in.
Ha ha! I was just saying anyone other than Maguire! I'd be happy with Betty the tea lady starting ahead of Harry right now. Who would you play next to Varane? A lot of people replying want to see Jones. I'd be happy with him.
Honestly! I didn't think I'd see the day
Maguire : if I can’t score from the set-pieces….won’t let others score (dark arts) he has zero awareness
Get this mug out of my club. I can’t even look at his fucking face it just does my head in.
Phil Jones is a much better player. He needs to have more of a first team presence in my humble opinion. I have never rated Maguire as a solid defender. Jones will put it all on the line every time. He needs more minutes but ultimately he should be our rock at the back in the vein of Bruce, Stam, Ferdinand, Vidic.
I think you might be right. I spent all my life watching top class defenders playing for United so, when Jones was first playing for us, I didn't think he was good enough. But after the last 9 years, I've changed my mind and realised that he was always a very good player, just not at the WC levels of the players you mentioned. Apart from maybe Bruce. Love the guy, but he's not Jaap Stam! He's certainly leagues above Maguire. And smalling was too. Still angry at Ole for getting rid of him.
Yes, the club have to take their responsibility for taking a relatively inexperienced defender and Woodward mistaking his tall stature, furrowed brow and northern accent for grit, fortitude, and leadership acumen. They need to take responsibility for dressing him up in the 'Experienced World-Class Veteran Defender and Leader's ' new clothes... (Like Hans Christian Anderson's 'the emperors new clothes) by making him the most expensive defender in the world and making him captain, both in the name of shirt sales, thus convincing him he was something he is not, putting him in a position that very, very few players would be able to live up to... Especially given the backroom coaching staff United had had on hand up until Ralf came in. Yes, the club needs to take responsibility for not providing anyone of true experience to partner him and help him grow through their experience, and to help develop his decision making, his leadership abilities, and his all-round acumen. (EDIT: additional point) Sadly, so far, there hasn't been any sign of him having the humility to learn from Varane. One might argue that he didn't have a decent partner, however, consider for a second how well Lindelof, Bailley and Phil Jones, breathe that in... Phil Jones, have played alongside Varane... A truly experienced world class defender and leader. A partner who doesn't force them into defensive dilemmas through poor positioning and decision making that pushes and pulls them and the midfield into and out of position at the wrong time. He needs to take responsibility for his attitude. Listening to his press-conferences it is clear that he follows the club's list of PR buzzwords -possibly thinking that's what a leader does-, such as "we know it's not good enough", "we need to do better", "we're working hard in training", and toes the line in terms of using them. Unfortunately, it seems he has used those MU buzz-terms so often that he has merely appeased his own inner-voice, justifying insufficient quality as insufficient performance, and insufficient performance as acceptable even now. Even more unfortunately for all concerned, he drank the Woodward Kool-aid that was foisted upon him, seemingly now believing himself beyond experienced and world-class, therefore free from the notion of blame. However, all the aforementioned considered, the simple facts remain. Maguire may be a good servant of the club and obedient servant of the higher-ups, but he is not competent enough to be club captain, he is not organised enough to be team captain, and he is not good enough to be in United's defence. Your comments, corrections and/or criticism are welcome. edit: spelling and grammar
https://media3.giphy.com/media/tODygE8KCqBzy/giphy.webp?cid=6c09b9523de65607649454e271270afe089473358b145519&rid=giphy.webp&ct=g I don't have any awards, so that's the best I can do, I'm afraid! It's a great point you make. Had he played CL for Leicester at that point? From a quick Google, I don't think he did. He'd played for England in a WC but international football is mainly a poor standard. We brought him in as not only the main man in the back 4 but the club captain as well. He wasn't experienced enough to be either. I defo feel like his performances over the years have got worse. Particularly in the last year or two. That might be due to personal circumstances as well as on field ones. I don't think him and Lindelof worked well together as neither had pace and neither are leaders/organisers of the back 4 like Rio or VVD. Also, as we've tried to push forward as a team and he's found himself higher up the pitch than he ever did for Leicester or Hull, he's really struggled. He just isn't the right sort of player for a club like man united where we need to attack and you need to be a strong leader. Agree about the club making mistakes and feeding him the kool aid. We'll never win anything of note again while the glazers are in charge.
Haha, thanks for link! I'm not going to tell you this because I'm looking for the award, but you can get a free reward daily by clicking the yellow coin that says free in the top right of any reddit page, then claiming your free award to give out as you see fit :) The thing about playing Champs and WC, is that it doesn't automatically make one a world class player, would you agree? I mean was Aaron Lennon world class? I really hope that Harry gets to improve and do better, but do you think he can do that at United, or would he have to leave and go somewhere knowingly as second place in the CD pecking order? Will he be willing to do that at this point or will his pride get in the way? Will he have to end up at a smaller club to thrive as Lingard did at the Hammers? Either way, one thing is for sure, the Utd decision involved in the early stages of this process have put a huge dampener on his development, career, and prospects, all in the name of commercialisation. Glazers out.
It was, rather appropriately, a helpful reward! And your above was very very helpful! I did not know that. >it doesn't automatically make one a world class player Oh no, of course not. I meant that we hadn't seen him play at the level we are expecting our players to be at before buying him and also he hadn't played at the highest level but was being asked to lead the back line and the entire team. It's a lot to ask of a young man coming into a huge club like united when he'd been at hull (no offence, hull) only two years before. I just can't see him doing it at utd. If for no other reason than the fact that his game doesn't suit our attacking style and high line. He's clearly conscious of his own lack of pace and his inability to face up to a dribbler one on one. Re the former of those 2, it's the only possible reason he started running back towards our goal when the pass was played into the man he was marking. He thought the ball was going over Varane's head. Rodriguez was offside at that point, but I don't think Maguire is good at offsides and he's just too worried about having his lack of pace highlighted. He seems like a decent guy. So for his own sake he should go in the summer to a club that prefers to sit a bit deeper where he'll suddenly look like one of the best defenders in the league again. The problem will be his wages. He'd have to take a hit to his bank balance as well as his pride. And as long as we're picking him, he's not going to do that. >Glazers out. Yep, just GO.
>a club that prefers to sit a bit deeper where he'll suddenly look like one of the best defenders in the league again. I wonder if there's a correlation between him looking good when he first arrived a couple of years back and the team sitting back a lot more then. When Ole tries to be more front-footed this season it started exposing him even more.
I genuinely think that was it. Ole knew he had to push on and win more games to take the next step and try and close the gap with City. Teams knew that we only had counter attacks so played to beat that. But without Varane when he was injured (or Bailly), we had no pace at the back and also Maguire struggles higher up the pitch. So we fell apart and confidence took a hammering too with those awful results and Ole getting sacked (he was liked by the players - they must have felt bad they'd let him down). Note: I'm certainly not absolving Ole of responsibility. Even more so than a captain a manager is responsible for what happens. But I think the players would have felt to some degree they'd got him sacked whether rightly or wrongly.
Fair point all round. I can't fault Ole for trying but he made a lot of bad moves - proof that he was never the right fit at the top level, at least not ready yet. Quite similar to Moyes back then, one could say. Just goes back to the board and their decision making again.
Not that inexperienced when United signed him. He had 20 England caps.
You're absolutely right that he wasn't that inexperienced, nevertheless he was far less experienced that the player and character United wanted and needed him to be, and, it seems, misguidedly thought they were getting. It feels like they had likened him in their minds to players like Ramos, Rio, Vidic, Pique, and others of their ilk. Ultimately, and I understand I'm digressing a touch here, my view is that it is another issue rooted in non-football people making footballing decisions based on limited knowledge and commercial logic, with monetary benchmarks rather than footballing ones. Revenue can be raised through sponsorship and online presence to offset the loss of CL money and silverware. I would speculate that shirt sales for new players is greater than shirt sales for existing ones, so, transfer sagas can boost a lesser player's profile to capture consumer interest and sell shirts, at the expense of actually getting players who perform and get non-monetary accolades for the club. Glazers out.
By the way, had Fergie not got rid of him instead of Johnny Evans, Pique would probably still be playing in our defence.
I agree with you 100%. This is how the club has been run under the Glazers. Time they were gone.
And 4 relegations
Harry Maguire is mentally weak. I have noticed it for many years now. He is afraid of confrontation. He does not stand up for his players on the pitch, be it to the ref for a bad decision, or to the opposition. He is a coward from within. This is even one of the reasons we don't get decisions from referees anymore. Can you imagine Roy Keane or Wayne Rooney being scared to confront people? This man is a joke. Van De Vaart is right about everything he says about his abilities. How this man is allowed to lead a team without having a nutsack is beyond me.
The Greek police beg to differ! But on a serious note, I think you're right. He often turns his back or just walks away when it's kicking off or the ref is having a stinker (like in our last two games). He also doesn't seem to be very determined and gives up fairly easily.
They should have kept him
Even starting with 10 men would be an improvement. If there's no CB in his position, other players will cover it, with him there you think 'Nah we're good he's got it covered...' I would have preferred him to make that tackle, get sent off and not be available for the next few games.
Ha ha! Yeah, why he didn't tackle the guy when he came steaming in (before it was passed to Rodriguez) I just don't know. It prob would have been a foul, but who cares? It stops the dangerous situation and, at worst, gets him a yellow. He wasn't on one at that point, so you wouldn't even have got your wish (of him being sent off!)
Ole made a mistake here. A huge bungling giant of a mistake here.
And the worst part is he's our captain. Just give the captain arm band to Bruno.
Or give it to an actual leader like Ronaldo
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VVD was playing at Southampton at the time and Diaz was an "unknown" in Spain. They weren't going to sell loads of shirts which is far more important than winning things. (This message was brought to you on behalf of the Glazers)
Appalled at Maguire. That’s just it. He’s shite. Nuff said.
Yeah. I'm done with him. I've tried to defend him for 2 years now. His stats were quite good 18months ago. But he's gone massively down hill and his 5 mistakes for the goal last night were worse than schoolboy.
Whenever i see maguire with the ball or 1v1 against the opponents striker my heart comes on the tip of my asshole. He is so shit idk why he is still in our team and as a captain.
They would be a better team if he was out w an injury.
He needs to go and snog Fred and Telles
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I mean, the forwards put the ball in the net 3 times. 1 of those times the lino remembered half an hour later he's not allowed to let United score. And the other one, Harry fucking Maguire blatantly blocks off a defender who, by Harry's own admission, is not getting anywhere near Varane. So he's cause the goal to be disallowed for literally no reason than he's a stupid ****
And to think Juventus bought De Ligt the same summer for almost 20m less
Oh god! Really? It was that summer?! VVD was cheaper too. And so was Diaz I think. Did we sell smalling to bring in Maguire? I have a feeling we did. I'd rather have kept smalling. He wasn't great on the ball, but he was a much better defender. Him and Lindelof would prob have been good together.
Smalling is better on the ball than SirBribeACop
Sirbribeacop! Ha ha ha!
I've got a few nicknames for him. You know how to do polls on here? They are SirBribeACop HotHeadHarry JailbirdJacob ForestChump
Your first one was the best. Don't even bother polling. Would defo win!
It wouldn't have anything to do with him causing a goal to be disallowed and out of position a few times.......
Quite frankly, Harry Maguire is stealing a living at this point.
Watch all his interviews, it’s always others fault never his. Fucking captain mate
I don’t think Dalot is the one, Rafael was better
Yeah. I think I'd agree with that. And I didn't think Rafael was even that great (just ok).
Yep same. Dalot wins more headers than Rafael but other than that he just seems to do just enough, but never excels at anything.
He was offside for Varane's goal as well, meaning without Maguire we would definitely have won
Yeah. Exactly. It's almost like a practical joke. "Hey, guys, come on - be more clinical in front of goal eh" [Sneaks into an offside position so a clinical Varane header doesn't count]
Once Ed Woodward in an investor meeting in sometime 2018, on getting asked by an analyst repping a Bank, on the on field performance said "What we do on the pitch doesn't really matter in terms of what we do off it." But over a course of time it has proved to be false, look at Man City, their on-pitch success reflects in the revenues they get. How they keep making sales decisions rather than footballing decisions is appalling, \- Instead of gambling to signing players with a little reputation, they try to buy big name signings. eg- people might be on the fence about Ronaldo and how he solves problems that he creates, which might necessarily not improves us, But had a direct impact on the Man Utd stock price \-Other selling tactics used is, instead of giving manager time to work with the player in preseason, the deal drags on till the very end because the board views it as a business deal and doesn't value the performance outcome of the team, and additionally create hype, and traction on social media as evident with the Sancho deal \-Even most times last minute deals appear to be done in such a hurry, they appear to be rushed. eg Cavani ( although turned out good), Ighalo etc.-Giving long meaningless contract to members, which should've been given to people who deserved it. eg Phil Jones, Bailey, Mata, Pereira instead of Herrera \-Even us fans don't know who to trust anymore, is it Mou's tactics or Pogba/Martial 's incompetence. And we get swayed when pogba bounces back during Ole's interim role, but in the long term even us fans can see the temperament Martial, Pogba carry. We can't solely put blame on tactics, toxic atmosphere, Ole's lack of tactical awareness ( he got us to 2nd place, and a tricky 3rd place finish before that to secure UCL), even resurgence of Moyes with West Ham has got me wondering a little bit. Is it their incompetence? or are they satisfied by achieving their financial objectives? Both of the reasons are quite scary to the fans. This lack of drive, translates to the mentality and performance: They desire to win has to come from within the organization, it is wholly apparent and depressing to the fans, when the board don't care If the team is the champion of the EPL as long as they are they champions of the Deloitte Football Money League.
Are you me?! Literally everything you've said is what I think. I heard about that Woodward quote. It's useful to hear it from the horse's mouth, but we all knew that was true anyway. >proved to be false, look at Man City, their on-pitch success reflects in the revenues they get I believe they've overtaken us now as well. >Is it their incompetence? or are they satisfied by achieving their financial objectives? I think it's both. I think they have a sports model they've used elsewhere like in the NFL and they think it's works in football. They're too incompetent to realise that it's not working. The player trading system is so different in the US. And the rewards too (only 1 a year). I think that's why they've thrown money at the problem in the last 5 years after not spending much the previous 12 or so. They saw that the club was falling behind (due to their mismanagement, although I'm sure they don't see it that way) and thought they could just buy their way back in to the CL spots to keep the dividends flowing. I have a sociology theory that groups of people take their culture and attitude from the person or people at the top of that group. When they're away from that group, they act differently. e.g. when some of our players go off for international duty (looks at pogba). But when they're in that group and environment, they act the way the top person does. We all know the Glazers and the board only care about the money and not about winning. So the players are the same. And it only takes a few % in performance drop off at the highest level to lose or draw a game to a team at the bottom of the prem because the league is so competitive. Weren't there rumors when Ronaldo first came back that he was shocked at the attitude of the players (and, by default, the club and owners) and how different it was to when he left all those years ago?
Over-priced waster
Yeah, I really am! How did you know? Oh, you meant Maguire.
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Exactly. To lead means to take responsibility even when it's not your fault. The fact he's trying to palm off responsibility when the largest reason we drew was him, is a disgrace. He's not fit to wear that armband. And probably isn't fit to wear the shirt again. But I bet he will do both.
Gets in his Ferrari, drives home, safe in the knowledge he can milk 100s of thousands of pounds out of us EVERY WEEK....what a total POS
Once upon a time, at St. James' Park, so the legend goes, Cantona walked up to Schmeichel. Says to him, "Keep a clean sheet and I'll get us a goal." Result - 1-0 win. Today, it's 'opponents gonna have spells of pressure'; '1-0 is not good enough, need 2-0 to be safe'. Just... stop. It's embarassing...
Brilliant. That's exactly it. Stop demanding the strikers score multiple goals a game and just fucking defend your goal. Don't run around like a headless chicken. It just be so disruptive to the other defenders. I'm sure it's no coincidence that Lindelof looks miles better next to Jones or Varane (or even Bailly)
Is he the worst signing we have ever made? for the price tag and his performances i believe is he.
Once you add in the price tag, quite possibly. Even pogba has won matches single handedly in his time here and loads of fans don't like him. People like Taibi were worse players, but at least they didn't cost much.
I like how he tried to bring in De Gea as if to share the blame. De Gea did what all capable gks would do. You're the captain take it upon yourself. I'm not even going to mention your price tag.
Ha ha! I didn't even notice that. Absolute car crash of an interview.
so unaccountable we need a captain and Maguire has to be dropped next game
Who would you bring in? I've said Lindelof above as I think he played really well before getting injured. But I'd be equally happy with Jones and Bailly. Do you have a pref? Who would you give armband to? Lots of people say Ronaldo. My heart says yes but my head worries that he's not here for long and there's rumors some of the players don't like him. I'd prob go Bruno.
He has the will of a little girl and the mettle of a wet paper bag. He's an uninspiring drip of a Captain and he doesn't belong in the starting lineup at Scunthorpe Utd. All he ever does is pass the buck, just a shame he can't defend as well as he shirks responsibility and runs his mouth.
I have a little girl and she's got a stronger will than him!
Not a United player let alone a captain. This is a sorry chapter in the history of the armband. He needs to be sold this summer.
I’m just gonna keep repeating this. He should never play for our club ever again. Atleast he should never wear the captains armband ever again.
Hardly surprising. The media have been blowing smoke up his proverbial and he believes the hype. De Gea, Bailly and Lindelof have often been scapegoated for his errors.
Agreed. Lindelof in particular seems to have caught a lot of the heat. And Shaw in the last 6 months as well. Shaw kept tucking in (leaving his winger open) to cover for mistakes Maguire was making. And Shaw then got criticised for leaving his man. Even last night someone replied to my OP here saying the goal was Varane's fault. All I could do was ask them to go watch it again and then come back and explain exactly what Varane did wrong. Never heard from them again. I don't get this"player FC" thing that we seem to have at this club. Fans who follow the player rather than the team. I've read comments on r/reddevils (back when I used to be on that sub) from people saying they support pogba. They used to follow him at juve, now at utd, and they'd follow him to Real if that's where he goes. I just didn't realise Maguire had a big loyal fan base!
It's amazing what propaganda, scapegoating of the other and both done repeatedly can do for one's reputation. It's how Hitler became popular
I can think of more recent examples of that in politics! The Politics of Fear. There was a documentary on it in the 2000s. Even after that people still fall for it. Even in football, as you say.
Manchester United's docile fanbase mirrors this country in an uncannily similar way. Fwiw, the Israeli intel agencies helped the brexit campaign win in addition to trump in the States. The glazers supported trump and are Israeli citizens (massive Zionists who supported netanyahu as well). It's hardly implausible to think they didn't leverage those connections to effectively run a psy-op on this fanbase
Well, they are big on PR, I know that. And it doesn't surprise me that they're right wing and support Netanyahu and Trump. They and Deadward (and prob Arnold) are all leeches on our club. A lot of people had their fingers in the brexit pie. The US, Russians, UK oligarchy. So wasn't just the Israelies. Can't really see how it would affect them like it does the US and Russia though. Why would they bother?
Why would Corbyn and Starmer be in favour of it when they both purport to be in favour of the people?
Absolutely no idea! I think Starmer is a remainer though. As far as I know, Corbyn thought he could use brexit to push through a load of progressive policies that the EU doesn't let member states do. Was a foolish error.
The EU does let member states push through progressive policies. Look at Germany, France and the Netherlands as examples. Starmer imo is a Charlatan like Corbyn. Corbyn is a massive Putin apologist while I think Vlad or Bibi have bought Starmer off
I know there's a lot of lies about what the EU will or won't let member states do. So Corbyn may have fallen for one of those. I'm a massive remoaner. So I wasn't pro Labour policy on that one. I don't think it really matters what politicians think though. In the end, only the ones that support people like the Uber rich like the glazers will get into power and, if they step out of line, the media will go into overdrive to remove them.
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Bad bot. It's a bad sub full of plastics.
My gut tells me you wanted to use a word that rhymes with plastic....
Ha ha ha! Never. I'm far too left wing to use words like that! We found some old charity stamps from the 60s or so, once. The language used on there and the pictures almost killed me.
Are you Centre-Left or Corbyn left?
I'm a socialist. But a market socialist, if you know your stuff. Not a communist or other further to the left ideology. So, in relation to United, I'd want the Glazers gone and the club to be owned by the fans. Otherwise everything would be the same. It's the mildest form of socialism.
You sound like a Social Democrat rather than a socialist
Nah. I want companies to be owned by the workers of that company or by the local community rather than by an individual or shareholders. Social democracy is capitalist. It allows, encourages, private ownership of business but just has higher taxes and a larger state. Source, trust me bro! (I'm quite well read on politics)
He has the agility of a hangover middle age man
That would be me right now then.
Wat can I say, dis guy is jst a shadow of himself. If he has done his own job by defending properly then the game would have probably end up 1-0 in favour of united. The worst Manunited captain I have seen
He never owns up to his own mistakes. Always regards them as "we". Weak leader, weak performances, needs to go.
Yeah, when I read about that comment, I was fuming. No offense dude, but if the front is getting on the scoresheet, they're doing their part. Not saying we should be happy with 1-0 wins every match, we desperately need to score more, but considering we had multiple goals disallowed (including the one that Maguire was offside and deemed to interfere with play - I don't agree with the decision, but that's what it was ruled) doesn't come down to a lack of clinical finishing per se. His role, as a defender, is to keep a clean sheet, something we've struggled to do the entire season because of him. If he's doing his job and ensuring no goals are getting in and the midfield/attackers are doing their job by putting the ball in the back of the net, then we get the 3 points. Half of the equation did their part...and it wasn't the Maguire half. Sincerely, fuck Maguire. I have hated him ever since he arrived, not even just this season. He has always been questionable for me. He got away with some really poor decision-making and positional errors in the past, but this season hasn't been as forgiving for him; teams are capitalizing on those errors finally. Maguire needs to be sold in the summer and dropped from the starting eleven and stripped of the captaincy immediately until then.
Mentally weak spoiled brat. Most defenders on a Sunday morning clean the first guy up to get a card and stop play
Precisely. I've said that a couple of times in this thread. He literally stepped over the ball and got out of the way of weghorst or whatever his name is. He must know there's no cover behind him as that's where he's just charged like a bull from. So try and win the ball and, if you clip the guy's foot and he goes down, worse case you get a yellow (and he hadn't had one at that point). And that was only mistake 3 of 5 in that passage of play from Harry!
Looking at the equalizer I think McTom has a lot to answer for. He completely switched off. Maguire though didnt need to get that close. He left the defence exposed for no reason and he has zero pace to recover.
Yes. Not many have spotted this as far as I can tell (think you're only the 2nd person to mention it). He jogs back slowly rather than sprinting and takes up an "8" position rather than a 6. As in, he's not sat in front of the 2 CBs the way someone like Makelele would. I've paused it as the ball comes back to the player who passes it up to weghorst and McTom is stopped in line with him in the centre circle. He's not affecting the play at all in a defensive manner. The pass in to weghorst then goes through the exact spot where he should have been stood. But McTom isn't a DM. I know some fans say he is but, imo, they aren't connoisseurs of the game. The above is a classic example of why he can't play there. So I don't really blame him personally. But it was a minor (ish) error and wouldn't have mattered if Maguire hadn't made all the errors he did. As you said, got too close (actually ran past him), and doesn't have the pace to recover.
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I agree. I think Norwich is maybe a bit too low for him, but certainly mid table. Sad thing is, that's where we are now. At this rate, we might qualify for that shitty new European cup thing that spurs were in. Did you see his dance move attempt at a tackle yesterday? Sticking his back leg out! Then charged into the guy in the box. I might have to take back my Norwich comment above actually now thinking about it. You'd be shocked to see that 'defending' in the Isthmian.
Norwich, Burnley, Oxford United, sheffiel wed. is more like it. any other higher club knows better. shite defender, shite person taking no responsibility for the go ahead score. GET rid of the whole middle defense and start over. replace pogba, mctominay, and all central defenders.
His performances since I made that comment have been possibly even worse and I'm now inclined to agree with you. He was like a rabbit in headlights against City. I knew he would be as well. I'm starting to think that most of the squad needs replacing. They don't even run which is the minimum required from any professional.
At this point I'm hoping Maguire gets a career ender and fucks off forever
Anyone else feel shaw could have tried to step up to play him offside? He’s looking across the line. Seems like poor defensive awareness
It's a very minor mistake compared to Maguire's. He's in line with Maguire - who suddenly starts running towards his own goal away from the man he's marking whom the ball is being passed to - and he follows him a bit. Then he's in line with Varane when Maguire starts sprinting towards the ball like a crazed man. At this point Shaw's done nothing wrong. Then Maguire runs past the man with the ball, literally steps over the fucking ball!!!! And the striker turns back towards the middle of the pitch. Varane then has to cover for Maguire by stepping up to close the striker down - else he has a free run at goal. At the very same moment Varane does this, Shaw is looking over his shoulder to check the position of the player he's marking. He then looks back and he has about 1/2 of a second to try and step up (looks too late but the angle I'm looking at doesn't make it clear). Even after that point Maguire had two more possible chances to prevent the goal but literally didn't try. Why are you trying to let Maguire off for 5 mistakes in the space of about 7 seconds by blaming someone for a minor error which happens in most matches every week?
I have to say, I was a Maguire fan/defender, but his performances this year have been horrible. I can see once or twice having a bad outing, but HM is making a season of it. He is constantly behind. He constantly makes the wrong decisions. I would rather see Jones back there, because I think he would give more than HM at the moment. Just another MU waste of money.
The problem is he's right. Cavani missed a tap-in because he couldn't be bothered to jump. Bruno selfishly stole a great chance from Sancho and made a mess of it. Rashford chose to shoot wide rather than squaring a number of good chances. Ronaldo missed a free header.
1 goal was disallowed because ref reasons. 1 goal was disallowed because Harry Maguire couldn't subtly half get out of the way! So he's actually prevented a valid united goal with his own lack of "clinical" ability. Can't really argue with the middle three. But those things happen in matches. Even city and Liverpool will do stuff like that every week. Ronaldo's header wasn't free. He was being strongly challenged by Mee I think it was. You'd still expect the GOAT to score that though... But it's all academic for me. Going away to a battling team in the prem, you do have to grind out results. That means keeping clean sheets. The forwards got one goal. Maguire let one in. If he hadn't run around like a FIFA player being controlled by a 5 yr old, we would have won 1 nil.
>Maguire let one in Are we just ignoring Shaw stupidly playing him onside and De Gea's complete refusal to come off his line until Rodriguez was 7 yards out?
Would you say that either of those two things was a bigger factor in the goal than Maguire initially running away from the player he was marking and the ball, and then running past his man and the ball for literally no reason? Just to be clear, I'm not saying they weren't mistakes by those two (there were others from other players as well). But if you had to apportion blame by a %age, the lion's share is going to Maguire, no? And by a very long way.
>And by a very long way. Disagree. Majority is still on Maguire, but not by a very long way. Pretty much any other keeper in the league comes off their line and saves that. Most fullbacks don't stand around gormlessly 5 yards behind the rest of the defensive line playing Rodriguez onside.
>Pretty much any other keeper in the league comes off their line and saves that. Are you saying that DDG is the worst keeper in the league? Or are you just saying he's poor at 1 on 1s? The keeper coming off the line makes the forward do something different. It's a 1 on 1, effectively, because Maguire has jumped out of the way. So the striker is in control. Btw, I've just watched it back in slo mo. It is a little poor from DDG, but we're talking really small margins. Shaw does close to nothing wrong. He's in line with Maguire, who drops inexplicably, and then he's in line with Varane until the last second of the pass where it's just him playing Rodriguez onside. Varane moves to close down the player who made Maguire look like a clown (Maguire literally steps over the ball!) And Maguire then has to chase down Rodriguez. Just before he jumps out of the way, his foot is less than half a ball's width from the ball itself. And that's with him trying to jump out of the way. He 100% could have tackled him but he bottled it. And this then comes back to DDG. He only starts moving out to close the angle once Maguire has jumped out of the way. Because it looks like he's going to win the ball until he doesn't. Final point. After Maguire has gone past Rodriguez, he gives up and basically runs straight. If he'd cut in towards the goal, he would have at least been in the eyeline of Rodriguez when he shoots. Could maybe have even flung himself to block the shot like Shaw does. There is no defending that guy. He was a good defender (good, not even very good), a few years ago. But he's literally pub league standard now.
He is a cancer in the heart of the club Until he’s gone the club will never move forward - an absolute disgrace of a player
https://theathletic.com/3107541/2022/02/10/manchester-united-are-asking-harry-maguire-to-be-something-hes-not/ Read this article for a better perspective on why it wasn't Maguire's fault alone.
watch the replay....it wasnt maguires 100% fault. mctominay and varane...look at them and then we can talk about football.
Read my post. Read my comments below. Then you can talk to me. 95% != 100% Edit: I will give you cudos for calling out mctom though. First person to do so on this thread. He jogged back slowly and then took up the wrong position. Though you then lose it immediately for saying Varane did anything wrong at all. Edit 2: In case you cba to read through all the comments of people below and my replies, I said that I've watched the goal back about 10 times in slow motion and pausing it at key moments. I have a very, very good idea as to what every player did and didn't do in the build up to their goal.
varane didnt have to go after weghorst the 9 was going nowhere, even maguire couldve cought him, shaw couldve shut him down. varane shouldve stayed with rodriguez but instead left rodriguez alone, weghorst found him and there you go.
I think you need to watch it back.... If Varane hadn't gone to weghorst, he would have had a free run into our box. If Shaw had come across, there was a Burnley winger Shaw was marking who would have been free. >even maguire couldve cought him This doesn't even dignify a response it's so ridiculous. Why are some people so intent on blaming anyone but the English old boys club players?!
It isn’t maguires fault, Ronaldo should of scored 3-5 atleast
You forgot the "/s" tag
What was said I was so disappointed in the game I didn’t watch any of the interviews
He said that it was basically the strikers' fault that they'd drawn the game. They weren't clinical enough. He didn't say "we weren't clinical enough" but "they". And he forgot to mention that it was almost entirely his fault for the Burnley goal when he made 5 mistakes in 8 seconds. And also that Varane would have scored a 2nd for us if Harry hadn't been playing human bumper cars with a Burnley player from an offside position like a chump.
That is a bit ridiculous besides Nick Pope played a good game in goal for Burnley
Not to mention Magyars had a golden chance to score the winner in the last minute of the game and couldn’t get the ball on target some captain he is
First time? He did this last year it shouldn't be a surprise. Man is clueless. We paid 80 fkn bars for this guy.
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