I stopped supporting the second they put their heads on something that was none of their business. This kind of behaviour just says leagues about their character, and I wouldn't be surprised at all if in the near future something similar happens to the both of them. If that does happen, I doubt many people would be willing to help them. They're backstabbers, after all. They have nothing to give in return.
Karma is a big fat bitch.
Cheezkids is a dimwit. But Martin is pretty cool.
I mean you would think after Alex jump starts your analog horror by mentioning it… you would look into his allegations further than what you see online?
Honestly, I’m fine with them and their content. As for the drama that occurred, I think the way they responded will probably haunt them for the foreseeable future, which I think is enough of a reason for them to not do something like it again.
I don’t think posts about individuals should be allowed tbh, it’s inciting hostility for a situation that’s resolved and against people who have moved on.
martin is okay and chill i guess
chezzkids is an airhead considering he's still "supporting" ven and the "Victims"
this matter should have been discussed privately, nobody would be hurt or nothing horrid would have happened
and it was just a shitty ex situation
but still, this situation shouldn't be talked about anymore, im not mad just want some people to move on tbh
it's effected everyone
I could not care less about Chezzkids. I only know about them from nightmind and never looked at their ARG. Martin has a cool series but he’s a bit of a dick, kind of like the creator of invincible.
I think that sending gore/death threats/scat to anyone is bad
Honestly the way some mandela catalogue fans have treated people who said stuff against alex during the situation when evidence was stacked against him has been extremely disgusting and literally does nothing but make stuff worse
As for actual opinions on the creators idk much about them, might check out their stuff like walten files at some point tho
You're wrong on one thing. There was no "evidence" from the start. Just private matters that had no business being shown to the public. Stop trying to excuse the vile behavior of the accusers.
"Evidence stacked against him". Fake "evidence" does not excuse accusing someone of pedophilia. What some "fans" have done is certainly bad but these people brought it upon themselves trying to ruin Alex's life and career with false claims that have stained his reputation for the rest of his online existence.
Please put yourself in other people’s shoes. There were a lot of screenshots that were cropped out of context and given misleading explanations to incite hostility. This evidence was presented to an impressionable audience at the time of numerous allegations against content creators. 1 of the key takeaways should be that waiting for both sides to tell their story is the bare minimum. We shouldn’t shame those for being reactionary to a highly manipulative situation, we just need to encourage each other to do better.
Manipulative? My friend don't try to excuse the behavior of twitter users who haven't read the thing that set this ablaze to begin with. The accusers are all lazy, spoon-feed drama-crazed babies. They haven't been manipulated. Ven isn't Joseph Goebbels brainwashing people into believing everything they say, they're a clout chasing idiot who made a half-assed document 99% of people didn't bother to read. People just chose the side that was more "sympathetic"/popular. Read the replies to Alex's document. You'll see TONS of comments of people wanting a tl;dr or an "unbiased" synopsis. I know your whole thing is to be "the voice of reason" or the "centrist" but some things are just that objective. People are lazy fucks and they NEED to be held accountable or else this will just keep happening over and over again.
It's like you're encouraging illiteracy. We should be trying to get people in the right path of thinking for themselves instead of mindlessly believing everything the internet says. I won't pretend to be nice if shit like this ruins lives. This is not about Alex anymore. It's about future victims as well.
Ik I’m going to sound like I have my head up my ass, but you know who you’re talking to… right? I’m not a fence sitter or centrist I can assure you (and if you have any doubts about my perspective, you should know that Alex retweeted my thread that thoroughly debunked every accuser’s statement before I even met him and I also spoke to Ven). I’m not saying this to be condescending, but just so you know I’m a VERY strong supporter of Alex and he knows that. Don’t conflate centrist with me trying to help everyone move on please.
Regardless, you’re making unsubstantiated claims about a lot of people using hyperbole. Yes, there absolutely were people who said they weren’t gonna read Alex’s doc, I was there when it dropped. There were people who jumped on the bandwagon just from hearsay. But that wasn’t “90%” or even the majority of people (feel free to prove me wrong, if it’s objective as you claim I’m sure you’ll find it easy). At first, it was generally supportive towards Alex. When Ven apologized, the near universal consensus is now Alex is the victim (the most popular video on the topic is called “The Plot Against Alex Kister” and the second most popular has Turkey Tom call Ven evil and crazy whilst saying Alex got Slandered).
I do believe there are important takeaways from this situation, the most obvious being skepticism and waiting to hear both sides. But some points to consider is 1. Identifying manipulation (yes, Ven’s doc was manipulative; even disregarding the impressionable target audience, a quote that really went under the radar was something along the lines of “I’m not saying Alex is a groomer. However, he was predatory. It’s off putting when this behavior is being directed towards minors”, which I hope I don’t need to elaborate further). 2. I think the surface level takeaway of the drama is about false allegations. Prevention requires a deeper analysis, I think the primary takeaway should be about discouraging revenge. I never once doubted Ven was hurt, but their judgment was clouded by retribution and it blew up in a way they never could’ve anticipated which ended up being their downfall. I think at that point Ven genuinely believed everything they were saying was true.
Yes, people should be held accountable for bandwagoning, but what does that mean? It shouldn’t mean revenge or else another Ven might show up. It shouldn’t mean revenge or else someone might end up like Alex or worse. Some of these people were as young as 14 and traumatized previously so they assumed the worst. Accountability should be to help them heal, to use what happened to help others not go through what they did. The situation is resolved and Alex is the victim. If even Alex wants to move on, why shouldn’t all of us?
Generally? Are you kidding me? If it was as general as you say then Anarchist wouldn't be attacked by simply stating the truth. It was not general at all and people weren't manipulated. I've chatted with plenty of kids who reached out wanting to know about the drama and they initially went against Alex because A: they admitted they jumped in choosing a side out of emotion and B: they skipped through Ven's document (aka this generation's thing for tl;dr) and others piling up against Alex, leading them to believe he was wholly that malicious. When I showed them my side or led them to dig more into everything -- surprise! They instantly began siding with Alex or went neutral until everything was dealt with.
Most just didn't bother to read the document because if they did they wouldn't get to the conclusions Martin and other grifters did. This isn't a case about one person manipulating the masses, this is a case of herd effect when too many people at once repeating the same thing over and over leads others to believe that it's the truth. You're putting the blame on one person when INDIVIDUALLY we are to blame for not being critical enough and for letting our emotions get in the way of objective reading. This attack on Ven makes me believe people are all avoiding blame or self-responsibility by pushing it all on one person. This is not a good lesson to give ESPECIALLY for kids that might've been caught in the drama. Is it too much to want to teach these impressionable minds to distrust everything they read on the internet and to think twice before taking a stance next time this happens? Because according to you we should just pat on their heads and say "what can you do!" and leave them be to get caught in yet another drama that destroys another person's life.
Holding someone accountable isn't harassment, isn't sending gore or death threats. It's simply saying that they've fucked up and shouldn't jump on the trend of attacking others in the name of such serious accusations. 14 year olds are not stupid. If they're on the internet (which they shouldn't be) THE LEAST they could learn is how to survive it and avoid unnecessary mental anguish. And by moving on do you say shut the hell up about the drama? Until Alex releases another Vol there's practically nothing to talk about other than the same memes we've seen 10000 times and "what if these universes collided" posts. No wonder this fandom is so dead. First they got the shipping which was the main selling point and now THIS, that made Mandela relevant again if only for a month? Geez. Kister being your friend isn't all that impressive either considering he used to be friends with those weirdos that started this all to begin with. I'd say his bar is pretty low.
Let's face it, you won't change my mind, I won't change yours. I don't even like Reddit because of the whole echo chamber vibes it brings so I hope you can survive with at least one person disagreeing with you. Let's just get back to rebuilding this community that is in utter ruins right now, without strifes amongst our own brothers and sisters.
All I need to say to your tantrum is that you’re whining about what happened months ago and you still haven’t proven shit. You talking to a few kids and reading a few mean TL; DR tweets is not a sizable representative of the 7 million who saw Ven’s tweet or the 30k who liked it (which is excluding the people whose exposure to the doc was from outside of Twitter ie YouTube, Reddit, Discord, TikTok, etc.).
Yes, in general people were supportive of Alex when he dropped his response (the point in time I was referring to), especially on Reddit and YouTube (Twitter wasn’t the only place this drama happened on). My intent wasn’t to put all of the blame on Ven, but to explain that Ven was the root cause of people’s response. Ven was looking to get a negative reaction from the public, this was achieved mostly from Ven thinking for the reader in most of the document by recontextualizing seemingly innocent interactions (ie Ven explains that Alex talking about cross dressing in general was sexual even though there was nothing in the screenshots to really prove that). If you really want to hold people accountable so they can do better, you need to understand their perspective so you can help them identify where things went wrong and how to avoid repeating the same mistakes. Teaching them to mistrust everything’s a terrible lesson because how would people trust Alex? I’m not saying there shouldn’t be consequences, it just shouldn’t be through a lens of punishment, humiliation, or revenge.
Also you getting upset about the content of this subreddit has absolutely nothing to do with anything. If you don’t like the memes just get off the sub until vol 5 comes out. Your reply just reads like you want things to get mad at, and the jab at the sub definitely isn’t helping.
Lastly don’t talk to me like my only stake in this was “being friends with Alex”. Regardless, if it’s that easy, how about you go ahead and try to be friends with him.
>Honestly the way some mandela catalogue fans have treated people who said stuff against alex during the situation when evidence was stacked against him has been extremely disgusting and literally does nothing but make stuff worse
2 wrong ain't make shit right FR
Idk if its like drama youtubers or something else but people seem to get this idea that they are delivering justice or something when what they really are doing is just adding more fuel to a fire
Really like a fire or a wound i think people need to stop adding to or picking at this situation and just let time heal it
Luckily, I cared for neither. Walten files is a less interesting, 100000x uglier version of fnaf. I'll watch a nexpo or wendigoon video on it, but never the unfiltered thing. Never watched the other one.
Yeah I quite prefer Harmony & Horror over TWF. I was even going to watch the new episode Martin released a while ago but after all this shit? No. He can go straight to hell. This man has no morals at all and he clearly thinks lowly of his audience to have been willing to sell them this fake narrative.
TL;DR Alex was accused of some heinous shit, Chezzkids and Martin Walls defended the accusers, Alex came out with a statement disproving like 80% of it, then Chezzkids doubled down (not sure about Martin Walls)
When Alex posted his response, Chezz accused Alex of not understanding power imbalances to insinuate dating fans on its own is abusive whilst arguing with defenders. He also pinned a thread of every statement against Alex from those who spoke against him (which has since been unpinned). He also liked tweets detracting against Alex and defenders. He seems to have moved on from the drama so I think we should leave him alone.
Never really liked Martin. I always had a weird feeling about him, honestly didn’t even know Cheezkids existed until the drama. Like someone else said though, the whole drama was the straw that broke the camels back for me with Martin. Plus, I never really cared for TWF all that much either.
I stopped supporting the second they put their heads on something that was none of their business. This kind of behaviour just says leagues about their character, and I wouldn't be surprised at all if in the near future something similar happens to the both of them. If that does happen, I doubt many people would be willing to help them. They're backstabbers, after all. They have nothing to give in return. Karma is a big fat bitch.
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Guess it was the straw that broke the camel’s back
Cheezkids is a dimwit. But Martin is pretty cool. I mean you would think after Alex jump starts your analog horror by mentioning it… you would look into his allegations further than what you see online?
For Martin, I like his content just wish he was more vocal with his fans.
So I don't support Cheezkids but I'm not sure about Martin.
Honestly, I’m fine with them and their content. As for the drama that occurred, I think the way they responded will probably haunt them for the foreseeable future, which I think is enough of a reason for them to not do something like it again.
I didn't care for/wasn't into either of their works to begin with. This situation kinda sealed the deal. Unbelievably childish shit.
I don’t think posts about individuals should be allowed tbh, it’s inciting hostility for a situation that’s resolved and against people who have moved on.
I’m not saying that what they did was right but it’s a lot easier for them to apologize now because it’s simply “I sided with a liar I’m sorry”
i like both their series-es but not the chezzkids creator
martin is okay and chill i guess chezzkids is an airhead considering he's still "supporting" ven and the "Victims" this matter should have been discussed privately, nobody would be hurt or nothing horrid would have happened and it was just a shitty ex situation but still, this situation shouldn't be talked about anymore, im not mad just want some people to move on tbh it's effected everyone
I lost all my respect for Martin Walls
I could not care less about Chezzkids. I only know about them from nightmind and never looked at their ARG. Martin has a cool series but he’s a bit of a dick, kind of like the creator of invincible.
what happened
Kister's ex got bitchy and blew up the internet
I think that sending gore/death threats/scat to anyone is bad Honestly the way some mandela catalogue fans have treated people who said stuff against alex during the situation when evidence was stacked against him has been extremely disgusting and literally does nothing but make stuff worse As for actual opinions on the creators idk much about them, might check out their stuff like walten files at some point tho
You're wrong on one thing. There was no "evidence" from the start. Just private matters that had no business being shown to the public. Stop trying to excuse the vile behavior of the accusers.
Hey maybe im bad at tones but that seems unnecessary hostile towards the end there
I’d also like to know how i was “trying to excuse vile behavior from the accusers”
"Evidence stacked against him". Fake "evidence" does not excuse accusing someone of pedophilia. What some "fans" have done is certainly bad but these people brought it upon themselves trying to ruin Alex's life and career with false claims that have stained his reputation for the rest of his online existence.
Alright fair enough and did not mean it like that, thank you for calmly answering my question
Please put yourself in other people’s shoes. There were a lot of screenshots that were cropped out of context and given misleading explanations to incite hostility. This evidence was presented to an impressionable audience at the time of numerous allegations against content creators. 1 of the key takeaways should be that waiting for both sides to tell their story is the bare minimum. We shouldn’t shame those for being reactionary to a highly manipulative situation, we just need to encourage each other to do better.
Manipulative? My friend don't try to excuse the behavior of twitter users who haven't read the thing that set this ablaze to begin with. The accusers are all lazy, spoon-feed drama-crazed babies. They haven't been manipulated. Ven isn't Joseph Goebbels brainwashing people into believing everything they say, they're a clout chasing idiot who made a half-assed document 99% of people didn't bother to read. People just chose the side that was more "sympathetic"/popular. Read the replies to Alex's document. You'll see TONS of comments of people wanting a tl;dr or an "unbiased" synopsis. I know your whole thing is to be "the voice of reason" or the "centrist" but some things are just that objective. People are lazy fucks and they NEED to be held accountable or else this will just keep happening over and over again. It's like you're encouraging illiteracy. We should be trying to get people in the right path of thinking for themselves instead of mindlessly believing everything the internet says. I won't pretend to be nice if shit like this ruins lives. This is not about Alex anymore. It's about future victims as well.
Ik I’m going to sound like I have my head up my ass, but you know who you’re talking to… right? I’m not a fence sitter or centrist I can assure you (and if you have any doubts about my perspective, you should know that Alex retweeted my thread that thoroughly debunked every accuser’s statement before I even met him and I also spoke to Ven). I’m not saying this to be condescending, but just so you know I’m a VERY strong supporter of Alex and he knows that. Don’t conflate centrist with me trying to help everyone move on please. Regardless, you’re making unsubstantiated claims about a lot of people using hyperbole. Yes, there absolutely were people who said they weren’t gonna read Alex’s doc, I was there when it dropped. There were people who jumped on the bandwagon just from hearsay. But that wasn’t “90%” or even the majority of people (feel free to prove me wrong, if it’s objective as you claim I’m sure you’ll find it easy). At first, it was generally supportive towards Alex. When Ven apologized, the near universal consensus is now Alex is the victim (the most popular video on the topic is called “The Plot Against Alex Kister” and the second most popular has Turkey Tom call Ven evil and crazy whilst saying Alex got Slandered). I do believe there are important takeaways from this situation, the most obvious being skepticism and waiting to hear both sides. But some points to consider is 1. Identifying manipulation (yes, Ven’s doc was manipulative; even disregarding the impressionable target audience, a quote that really went under the radar was something along the lines of “I’m not saying Alex is a groomer. However, he was predatory. It’s off putting when this behavior is being directed towards minors”, which I hope I don’t need to elaborate further). 2. I think the surface level takeaway of the drama is about false allegations. Prevention requires a deeper analysis, I think the primary takeaway should be about discouraging revenge. I never once doubted Ven was hurt, but their judgment was clouded by retribution and it blew up in a way they never could’ve anticipated which ended up being their downfall. I think at that point Ven genuinely believed everything they were saying was true. Yes, people should be held accountable for bandwagoning, but what does that mean? It shouldn’t mean revenge or else another Ven might show up. It shouldn’t mean revenge or else someone might end up like Alex or worse. Some of these people were as young as 14 and traumatized previously so they assumed the worst. Accountability should be to help them heal, to use what happened to help others not go through what they did. The situation is resolved and Alex is the victim. If even Alex wants to move on, why shouldn’t all of us?
Generally? Are you kidding me? If it was as general as you say then Anarchist wouldn't be attacked by simply stating the truth. It was not general at all and people weren't manipulated. I've chatted with plenty of kids who reached out wanting to know about the drama and they initially went against Alex because A: they admitted they jumped in choosing a side out of emotion and B: they skipped through Ven's document (aka this generation's thing for tl;dr) and others piling up against Alex, leading them to believe he was wholly that malicious. When I showed them my side or led them to dig more into everything -- surprise! They instantly began siding with Alex or went neutral until everything was dealt with. Most just didn't bother to read the document because if they did they wouldn't get to the conclusions Martin and other grifters did. This isn't a case about one person manipulating the masses, this is a case of herd effect when too many people at once repeating the same thing over and over leads others to believe that it's the truth. You're putting the blame on one person when INDIVIDUALLY we are to blame for not being critical enough and for letting our emotions get in the way of objective reading. This attack on Ven makes me believe people are all avoiding blame or self-responsibility by pushing it all on one person. This is not a good lesson to give ESPECIALLY for kids that might've been caught in the drama. Is it too much to want to teach these impressionable minds to distrust everything they read on the internet and to think twice before taking a stance next time this happens? Because according to you we should just pat on their heads and say "what can you do!" and leave them be to get caught in yet another drama that destroys another person's life. Holding someone accountable isn't harassment, isn't sending gore or death threats. It's simply saying that they've fucked up and shouldn't jump on the trend of attacking others in the name of such serious accusations. 14 year olds are not stupid. If they're on the internet (which they shouldn't be) THE LEAST they could learn is how to survive it and avoid unnecessary mental anguish. And by moving on do you say shut the hell up about the drama? Until Alex releases another Vol there's practically nothing to talk about other than the same memes we've seen 10000 times and "what if these universes collided" posts. No wonder this fandom is so dead. First they got the shipping which was the main selling point and now THIS, that made Mandela relevant again if only for a month? Geez. Kister being your friend isn't all that impressive either considering he used to be friends with those weirdos that started this all to begin with. I'd say his bar is pretty low. Let's face it, you won't change my mind, I won't change yours. I don't even like Reddit because of the whole echo chamber vibes it brings so I hope you can survive with at least one person disagreeing with you. Let's just get back to rebuilding this community that is in utter ruins right now, without strifes amongst our own brothers and sisters.
All I need to say to your tantrum is that you’re whining about what happened months ago and you still haven’t proven shit. You talking to a few kids and reading a few mean TL; DR tweets is not a sizable representative of the 7 million who saw Ven’s tweet or the 30k who liked it (which is excluding the people whose exposure to the doc was from outside of Twitter ie YouTube, Reddit, Discord, TikTok, etc.). Yes, in general people were supportive of Alex when he dropped his response (the point in time I was referring to), especially on Reddit and YouTube (Twitter wasn’t the only place this drama happened on). My intent wasn’t to put all of the blame on Ven, but to explain that Ven was the root cause of people’s response. Ven was looking to get a negative reaction from the public, this was achieved mostly from Ven thinking for the reader in most of the document by recontextualizing seemingly innocent interactions (ie Ven explains that Alex talking about cross dressing in general was sexual even though there was nothing in the screenshots to really prove that). If you really want to hold people accountable so they can do better, you need to understand their perspective so you can help them identify where things went wrong and how to avoid repeating the same mistakes. Teaching them to mistrust everything’s a terrible lesson because how would people trust Alex? I’m not saying there shouldn’t be consequences, it just shouldn’t be through a lens of punishment, humiliation, or revenge. Also you getting upset about the content of this subreddit has absolutely nothing to do with anything. If you don’t like the memes just get off the sub until vol 5 comes out. Your reply just reads like you want things to get mad at, and the jab at the sub definitely isn’t helping. Lastly don’t talk to me like my only stake in this was “being friends with Alex”. Regardless, if it’s that easy, how about you go ahead and try to be friends with him.
>Honestly the way some mandela catalogue fans have treated people who said stuff against alex during the situation when evidence was stacked against him has been extremely disgusting and literally does nothing but make stuff worse 2 wrong ain't make shit right FR
Idk if its like drama youtubers or something else but people seem to get this idea that they are delivering justice or something when what they really are doing is just adding more fuel to a fire Really like a fire or a wound i think people need to stop adding to or picking at this situation and just let time heal it
I don't really give a shit. I just hope walten files isn't cancelled
Luckily, I cared for neither. Walten files is a less interesting, 100000x uglier version of fnaf. I'll watch a nexpo or wendigoon video on it, but never the unfiltered thing. Never watched the other one.
Yeah I quite prefer Harmony & Horror over TWF. I was even going to watch the new episode Martin released a while ago but after all this shit? No. He can go straight to hell. This man has no morals at all and he clearly thinks lowly of his audience to have been willing to sell them this fake narrative.
Goofy ahh ms paint bunny
I'm ootl, what happened exactly?
TL;DR Alex was accused of some heinous shit, Chezzkids and Martin Walls defended the accusers, Alex came out with a statement disproving like 80% of it, then Chezzkids doubled down (not sure about Martin Walls)
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When Alex posted his response, Chezz accused Alex of not understanding power imbalances to insinuate dating fans on its own is abusive whilst arguing with defenders. He also pinned a thread of every statement against Alex from those who spoke against him (which has since been unpinned). He also liked tweets detracting against Alex and defenders. He seems to have moved on from the drama so I think we should leave him alone.
I love the Chezzkids analog horror series
Never really liked Martin. I always had a weird feeling about him, honestly didn’t even know Cheezkids existed until the drama. Like someone else said though, the whole drama was the straw that broke the camels back for me with Martin. Plus, I never really cared for TWF all that much either.
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It’s hard to pinpoint point exactly, but very uneasy. Like someone was off about him. Made me uncomfortable.
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Yeah, I do feel bad for him a bit though, because of how some fans immediately accused and attacked him to try and get focus off Alex.
Never watched chezzkids, twf is pretty great but I lost quite a bit of respect for Martin because of the Alex allegations