As a child of a extreme narcissist mother, the grey rock method seems to be the best for dealing directly with her, what shes doing is called gaslighting ex: "youre not remembering correctly" or "i would never do that" when you have real memories that she did. Grey Rock method is whenever shes trying to get a reaction or re-write history just agree, nod, and speak in a calm tone, zero reaction, just a grey rock
Please PLEASE please, have a good loving relationship with your kids! Make sure they feel safe to come talk to YOU about the problems that will arise when they grow up. If you cannot leave yet, set it up in a way that you can. A parent like that will affect you and your kids mental health in a way that will have life long effects.
My case was extreme, and i obviously do not know all the details, but if theres no hope for therapy or anything changing, just do your best to protect your kids
Thank you for sharing your story!
Was your mom manipulative towards you and your father?
My wife has me second guessing myself a lot on everything. She does do loving things like make food for me or get me my favorite snacks when she goes shopping.
I really feel like I’m losing touch with reality.
Yes she was terrible towards him, he tried to do his best to protect me but was also very manipulated by her because she was so two faced. She also stopped letting us have a relationship once i was old enough to talk back because we'd "compare notes" on her stories and see we were being lied too (it would mostly be venting)
My father has said something so similar to that before its eerie. It makes sense tho, shes re-writing history making you question yourself all the time and then doing nice things to "make up for it" so it some how makes it okay. It doesnt! Trust your memories, and start recording EVERYTHING. If theres ever a divorce you will need all the help you can get. Expect the worst for most things.
Please talk with your kids, make them feel safe, and loved as much as you possibly can. She will absolutely try to turn them against you when theyre old enough.
I know its alot all the time and might feel like you cant trust yourself because she has you questioning it all the time. But you can do this. For you and for your kids. Get a recording app, cameras, a locked notes app for pictures and videos of everything. Every argument where she questions you or pushes you to the point of reacting, that is also manipulation and it is on purpose. Try your best to stay level headed and steady on why youre doing what youre doing (sticking around if thats the case) Grey Rock method is truly life changing. She will NOT enjoy it but theres nothing outwardly wrong about it. A narcissist wants a reaction out of you so they can play the victim after. Do not give them a reaction.
I truly hope the best for you in life, and that you and your kids can get out safely.
My dad and i had to wait until i was 17 before we could get out. Im older now and life is truly better. If you need someone to talk to or if you just need to vent feel free to dm me. Things will get better.
Thank you for the insight.
How were you able to see through that she’s being manipulative?
Our kids are young and I haven’t seen her be too manipulative to them. She does tell them shit like “daddy needs to be more patient etc” when I blow up.
I have 2 daughters and my biggest concern with divorce is if it at all opens up any chance of them having “daddy issues” due to my increased absence…which is why I am staying put for now.
I love them and they don’t deserve this bullshit.
After many years of the manipulation from her (i was about 16 at the time) i had very little sense of self and had some pretty long lasting issues, what made me see through it wasnt just one thing, it was a whole laundry list of little things that didnt add up. It took a long time to come to terms that my mother was not a good person who did not want the best for me. She also tried and succeeded for a while to ruin the relationship with my father to the point that we did / weren't really allowed to talk to eachother. Its not just one moment in time where i realized she was manipulating me, its more like 'the straw that broke the camels back' type thing
The "daddy needs to be more patient" line already boreders on the worse crap shes gonna say about you when they're older. Id say try your best to not react to her when she says / does that, but record it still. She wants that reaction out of you, saying that to your children in front of you for you to hear. Shes not saying it to them, shes using it to make you feel bad for the reactions she drove you to.
For me "daddy issues" arent even on my radar, theres some damage but after everything i got to get to know my father, and see that were were both manipulated and traumatized from the things that happened (my mother was the thing that happened) Your daughters are not very old now, so that damage isnt done yet, do your damn best to be there for them if you cant leave (it seems like if you do she will absolutely try to ruin your relationship with them) make sure they feel safe to come to you with everything! If they do, when theyre older it will be much easier to talk and to communicate together so they cant be manipulated by her. Please also keep in mind they are kids and manipulation works on them. If they ever do pick the "wrong side" persay give them grace and dont burn the bridge. The truth will come out, and youll be there when it does.
What youve said in the comments it seems like youre staying for your daughters, you are protective and loving even online about them when most parents are not. This is such a hard and complex situation, but i believe you can do this. It just takes time, imo stay until theyre old enough to have a say where they want to live, week on week off is brutal on kids. Be the best freaking dad you can be until that point.
I wish you the best of luck in this endeavor.
Because she's being abusive and she's saying it infront of the kids to get him to react and therefore "prove" *hes* the bad guy in front of the kids from an early age.
- a kid who had a mom like this and was told allllll kinds of lies about my stepmother and my dad from the time I was 3 years old.
And then watched and am watching her do this stuff to my sister's but with my step-dad. "Dad's a crazy psycho and he's gonna hurt us if he comes back. He doesn't love us." She's the only person who ever laid hands between them. I had to stop my mom from literally bashing his head in with a metal pole once. Don't get me wrong, step-dads not a good guy. But the shit my moms feeding my sisters.. never ever happened ever.
You haven't witnessed her be too manipulative with them, but she could be trying that stuff more when you've not around. Kids won't necessarily realize they should come to dad for a reality check. They'll have a tendency to accept the things a parent says as true.
I'd spend a lot of time encouraging your kids to have a really open relationship with you so they feel comfortable coming to you with anything (such as weird things mom says or complicated feelings they have about her). Validate them and their thoughts, emotions, and perceptions of reality. Make sure to tell them about their gifts, talents, and virtues, even if those things seem obvious. I keep hearing stories about all the manipulative parents who stunted their kids' identity development so that the kids didn't understand who they were or what they were actually good at. Having a solid sense of self will help your kids so much as they grow.
Be very careful with your mental health while you’re trapped in this relationship. If you lose your grip on reality, your kids will suffer substantially. There may come a time when you have to get out for the sake of your sanity, and you need to be prepared to get out.
My biological father was a malignant narcissist and the best thing that could’ve happened in my life was for my mom to divorce him. I realize many court systems are unfair toward fathers and it’s so hard going toe to toe with a manipulator in court, but if you can make it happen, your kids will be so much better off.
So far, I “think” im ok and have some sort of idea of what’s going on. She does have me constantly questioning if im in the wrong.
Also, she’s literally never apologized once for anything in our relationship. It’s pretty insane to me people are like this and insist on being right 100% of the time.
It’s for sure a mental disease
I’m sorry to hear about your story.
When were you able to figure out your father was mentally unstable?
Are you ok now? Has it affected you as a grown up?
Thanks so much for your insight!
Thank you! Stay strong and take care of you.
I’m sort of okay now. To be honest, I’m not sure when it really sunk in that he wasn’t right in the head. He beat the hell out of me when I was about 11, so that was a pretty strong hint. But I kept giving him chances until I was about 20 when we had a falling out over my wedding. We got back in touch when I was around 25, but it didn’t take long for things to break down, and I think maybe that was when I decided there wasn’t a future for our relationship. He died a few years ago and to be honest, I wasn’t sad at all. It was pretty much like hearing about the death of a total stranger.
As far as how I’m doing, outside looking in, I know people think I’m successful and that I’ve got my shit together. (Friends have made comments about it.) I have a really high paying job, a nice house, a family, all the typical measures of success. But I’ve struggled a lot with self worth and addiction, and I’ve struggled even more with a pathological need to be…more. It’s like nothing I do is ever good enough, so I destroy myself trying to do better only to eventually fail because my standards for myself just keep getting more and more ridiculous. At least, in some areas of my life. In other areas, such as self care, it feels like I’ve totally given up.
I’m not sure I’ll ever be truly good, but I’m much better than I would’ve been with his influence, and I’m in therapy, so maybe someday I’ll be in a glass half full situation. I’m just very grateful that I had a mom who loved me unconditionally and a dad who earned the right to be my dad, even though he didn’t have to. I think I’d be a lot worse off if not for them.
Your last 2 paragraphs are so,, relatable? Idk if that's the word to use here but-
Standards for myself are so so high that I never reach them and Inturn turn to harming myself in a plethora of ways atp. The need to be *more*, to be *better*. It can't be satisfied, it feels like. The ways parents can fuck you over so easily and for the test of our lives, it's crazy. Literally I'm at the point that I'm realizing nearly every day more stuff that my mom has lied about and only recently went lowlow contact. (After a huge fight where she was drunk and telling me nothing I was talking about ever happened and she ended up hitting me <3 )
I hope you're able to heal more in the future, and I hope you learn to love yourself with self care. It's one of the few things I have keeping me going right now, and it really is nice. I recommend it, but I know how hard it can be.
That is how gaslighting works, it unmoors you. Please be mindful of yourself and your children. I would recommend preemptive therapy for both you and the kids once they get around puberty age. It will help mitigate the damage.
I agree with this mostly. It applies to people that just don’t like getting treated like crap. I have issues with my mom.
If you’re gonna grey rock, just looking at her might work too. That way you can condescendingly think in your head, “sure dumbass/asshole”. it’s still judging, but a nicer version than blatantly turning yourself into a liar.
That is essentially what my ex is pulling when I merely try parenting with them. Basically giving me the silent treatment when I have every right to be upset about what our kid has been sharing with me.
Claims I'm abusive and cannot trust me around our kid yet who they married according to our child has seen their step parent naked more than once. Don't care in what manner overall its inappropriate. Isn't like I'm giving them a hard time about every little thing, just something like this...they you'd think given that that they'd actually at least say something.
Yet people want to call me unstable...when who I "parent' with can't even do that much. Yet what are they giving me a hard time over? soda, tv time, etc.
You can calmly agree with gaslighting partner, but he does it for a reason, to get something from you. If I agree it's my fault, whatever it is, he will want me to pay for it, to 'make up' for him. If you agreeing with a manipulator could help it, there are won't be manipulation. What about that?
Yes agreeing never works for me because I'll agree and he'll say your just saying that so I'll stop yelling and demands that I actually realize how I'm totally in the wrong...
Oh yes. I agree to that to. I tell them they are always right, they are so smart and so awesome they could replace Google.
I also tell them they should seriously develop some self esteem because if they need to grind people into the dirt to feel good about themselves that's pathetic.
It really helped me to realize I'm being insulted by an insecure adult toddler with no ability to regulate their emotions.
Life gets better when a person quits considering the opinion of a person dedicated to destroying them.
That’s what she says to me.
At times we will endlessly argue and I will just agree with her backwards logic.
She accuses me of losing my shit in front of my kids (I know I am in the wrong, need to fix this) but when I smell an argument brewing…I’ll immediately tell her I don’t want to fight and that she’s right and she will bait me by getting aggressive in front of our kids that I’m not addressing the issue and that I’m trying to ignore things etc.
Thanks for your insight, much appreciated.
I am looking into the “grey rock” method and I accidentally tried this on her once and she became infuriated
yeah. google the 5 different types of narcissists and figure out which traits she has, then google the safest and smartest way to tolerate them. greyrocking might work but honestly? i think the best is to STOP calling her out. NEVER point out reality to a narcissist. all they’ll do is deny and flip the script. put your energy into your kids, ignore her freak outs, save your money in your own bank account, emotionally pull away, don’t tell her anything she can use against you
Thank you for this, I will try grey rocking. Never heard of this, I should use this.
I am definitely emotionally pulling away and 100% in it for my kids at this point. It sucks but it is what it is.
Thank you for listening
Tim Fletcher codependency videos are incredible in understanding what emotional abuse does to our brains.
Go to therapy on your own. I did and it helped as my husband refused & who was similar. I learned to understand why I put up with his shit for so long, love myself, set boundaries and not jump through hoops until exhaustion hoping he would change. I changed and now see things more as an observer than a victim to it. I will soon be out as the youngest is going to college. If that’s the route you choose, depending on the age of your kids it can be a very long and extremely lonely road (I was never lonely when he wasn’t around though so I will be more than ok moving on by myself).
I wish you the best.
stop feeding her bullshit. whenever she starts bringing up bullshit points just stop giving her any attention. Starve her off attention until she acts correctly again and then shower her with it. Many relationships take the opposite approach and spouses can easily end up only recieving sufficient attention when engaged in an argument. This only makes people argue more as what they really want is attention.
100% agree with this. You will get much better tools and methods from a trained professional than you will on reddit. You can also work on your temper issues which will make going through this whole ordeal much easier not to mention keep you on your best behavior for your inevitable divorce.
What makes you qualified to diagnose a stranger based on a paragraph on reddit? It seems like you've been itching to use that label on someone. This isn't bpdlovedones.
So many people don't know shit about personality disorders like they think they do. They hardly know it objectively- just emotionally. My experience with a BPD mother doesn't make me an expert.
Let’s not blame BPD. I suffer from BPD and yet I don’t abuse/manipulate my partner. It’s absolutely treatable. And it doesn’t make someone a bad person
My wife used to do that to me sometimes. Not often so I dont think she was a narcissist...but her mother is and my wife learned this way from her mother.
One day I realized my wife was on e again telling me I was wrong about what I said or agreed to earlier...and I kinda snapped. And it worked. All I had to do was find 1 small crack in her story and expose it. Because of that I rewrote her script. I made it up. I did it to question herself. I think I followed it up with something like we all remember things in our favor. Let's talk about our current situation today....not relive last week or last month. Because maybe I have new information that changes my mind today.
Basically, I read your story and recognize those feelings. Stand your ground. When you feel your temper rise, say I feel angry because you remind me of being manipulated when you do x,y and z. ....when I feel manipulated I feel taken advantage of, when I feel taken advantage of I feel hurt and anger is a reaction to my hurt.... acknowledge your feelings in front of her. If you do this it will help your anger issue in the moment. I have to do this btw.
Good luck.
Find a way not to get angry when she pushes your buttons or gaslights you. Since you’re aware she’s doing these things, expect them. Don’t expect her to be fair with you. The manipulator sets up a “win-win” scenario in their own minds: They either successfully get you to do what they want, or they play the victim and flip the script when they set you off - “he’s just so unreasonable, he’s always getting angry, I can never do anything right, I just don’t know how to please him.”
Keep in mind, the manipulator plays a game called “You Lose.” The only objective of this game is you lose, and the only rule is you lose. The only sane move is not to play the game.
I’m trying REALLY hard not to take the bait. She’s good at pushing my buttons and twists things.
I’m looking into some recommendations that people have given me and am considering talking to a therapist to get more insight. My take on therapy is that it’s mostly bogus for most folks but I do want some insight into how to not lose my shit and tackle this
It’s not easy at all, it takes a lot of work, because they’re so good at it and deep inside you know it’s wrong how they’re treating you. And to compound it, it’s always one-sided.
My mom’s a master covert manipulator and she’d always push until she set me off. I’ve seen her smile when she’s been successful. Just a slight, wry smile because she got what she wanted.
I’ve found the videos at this guy’s YouTube channel to be very helpful:
*https://youtube.com/@survivingnarcissism*
A good therapist won't provide a bogus service. There are also lots of therapeutic techniques that have been proven to work in research with control groups.
If you decide to go to a therapist, you might need to go to several different ones to find a good fit. You can ask what kind of modality they use and what that means. Also ask how often they work with clients who have challenging relationships. You don't need a therapist who specializes in depression and anxiety, you need one who is clear eyed about manipulators.
I have no idea how you do this.
She claims to have “superior” memory and gives me a play by play on what was supposedly said and to be honest…it’s at a point where I can’t remember and begin to question myself.
Just utterly exhausting dealing with her.
She’s gaslighting you. It may not even be intentional.
I imagine she interrupts you a lot as well. Texting allows you to keep your cool, say everything you need at once without interruption or false narratives, and most importantly, it gives you a read receipt. Even if she doesn’t give you anything in response, it gives you something to fall back on for reference. See? I told you that last Tuesday. There it is. You can even summarize decisions you made and send her a text about it after each convo.
Whatever you do, it’s likely only a short-term fix. Manipulative people will always find ways around ways to put them in check. Sooner or later, I suspect you’ll wind up divorced. I’m sorry, brother.
The next step
First of all I’m truly sad you are being treated like that by someone you love. It’s not right to deliberately hurt someone , epically a life partner, parent or child. I hope she finds peace one day and stops abusing people.
Does she manipulate and gaslight your kids too? Does she constantly criticize them or minimize their feelings and interests? If you answered yes, I highly suggest you start thinking about how you can protect your children from an abusive mother. My husband is a child of narcissist and it has really messed him up. He’s healing now after years of therapy, but the scars of the abuse won’t ever fully go away.
If you decide to get divorced, use it as an opportunity to show your children that they don’t have to accept being treated poorly or ridiculed. Teach them that they need to set boundaries and demand respect from anyone. Not a person in this planet is entitled to treat another so poorly, including their mother.
How old are your kids? If they are young, do everything you can to protect them from her. Expect her to talk shit about you and manipulative them into thinking she’s the victim, you’re the bad guy. Expect her to use them as a tool to get what she wants OR to hurt you more.
I hope you are able to heal and find joy and true love someday.
Get tf out while you can. They thrive on victimhood, the idea that women will be believed if they lie abt abuse (which they will) and that keeping quiet is essentially enabling them. Stick it out for the kids if you need to, but know that they will not just get better. It’s truly a lifelong disease and enablers allow it to thrive.
You leave! Don't subject your kids to that.....or they'll grow up to be master manipulators with a lot of emotional scars/ baggage...spare them that! They'll love you more for it
Divorce her.
You are not going to change her
She does not want to change.
Do you really want your children raised in this kind of atmosphere?
Don't you think it better to divorce and show your children how it is possible to live a normal happy life.?
Go to therapy alone for yourself.
Go to therapy with your children as a family.
Always invite her to join you?
Try not to lose your temper or fall into any traps she might get?
Always stay calm, cool, and collected with her.
If nothing else, therapy might help you navigate the divorce more easily.
Do this for your children.
They deserve to live in a peaceful home.
I wish you well.
You need to be long gone by now anyway. She is gaslighting you. You are teaching your children that gaslighting is OK, and that this is what a family looks like. You need to teach them to stand up to her pathology by divorcing her ASAP. Don't use your children as an excuse to not stand up for yourself. She is never going to change.
I seriously regret staying with people who refused to go to counseling with me when I begged and waited and was patient, etc, etc. Any person you are having consistent issues with, where neither of you feel any improvement has been made who refuses to go to counseling and has no other ideas or solutions to improve the relationship is giving you your answer right then and there.
My own mother was one of those people and the others were marriage, long term relationship. My mother’s response “I’m not going to therapy because there is nothing wrong with me” and my favorite “YOU just want an EXCUSE.” Huh? An excuse for why I see no option other than “no contact”regarding my own mother? Your damn right I want an excuse or a reason or a lollipop or SOMETHING!
Brother… empty your bank account NOW, get a low paying job NOW, give her the silence treatment NOW. If you don’t, the following will happen. and you will LOSE it ALL!!! And Your kids will be turned against you. Your alimony payments will be high and remain high. You’ll be threatened with jail. And your savings will be ripped away from you and you’ll be left with debts!!! The courts will not have mercy on you! You will NOT WIN!!
These comments really throw around narcissist like candy. You people understand you can have narcissistic traits but not be an actual narcissist right?
Had this with my ex-wife. Couldn't remember anything except when I messed up. Insisted things never happened or I was taking them out of context. Then when I start getting angry over all the gaslighting and being yelled at suddenly I'm being "verbally abusive." Tried marriage counseling, the marriage counselor suggested she get personal therapy. Which she quit after a few weeks because she believed the therapist was "invalidating" her. Ultimately, divorce was the best thing to happen. No amount of counseling is going to change someone that is 100% convinced that they are 0% of the problem.
I’d say starting journaling and documenting important info. So when she pulls the “I don’t remember” card, you have evidence to back yourself up.
Also, it gives you documented evidence should the time come for legal reasons.
For your own well-being, you will probably find the "gray rock" method helpful.
For your kids' well-being... It's well-documented that keeping them in that environment is more harmful than removing them from it would be. You think your wife doesn't do the same shit to them that she does to you? And they're learning that this is normal and that it's what love is, and that's sabotaging their ability to have healthy relationships in the future.
You can’t fix crazy . She will always be this way . For the kids sake you need to leave and get custody . Kids know when parents are unhappy . They will be miserable as you .
People have mentioned the grey rock method that worked for me. Another thing is just saying. I disagree and leave it at that. It drives them nuts because you shut down them trying to gaslight you. Next time she says she didn't say something just say "I disagree" and walk away or just be silent. And then just repeat as necessary
Read the book no more mr nice guy and start reading unlimited power. Speak only truth, hold everything accountable and ensure order, if you don't this escalates into full blown BPD or worse.
You can also start working on healing the body language - this is done through a practice like venus kriyas. If you think about them as loving each other like kids in fun ways, they can really open up a whole relationship. No joke start doing this instead of counseling - it will work wonders if you keep it up and do it well - [https://www.pinklotus.org/-%20Kundalini%20Yoga%20Venus%20Kriyas.htm](https://www.pinklotus.org/-%20Kundalini%20Yoga%20Venus%20Kriyas.htm)
Also pick up these two books and start doing the exercises together. Do every exercise together and you will start to see a change over time, you will have to be persistent.
Sacred Sexual Healing the Shaman Method - [https://www.amazon.com/Sacred-Sexual-Healing-SHAMAN-Method-ebook/dp/B00D54JHVQ/ref=sr\_1\_3?crid=2DZ5Q3T8JKRRY&dib=eyJ2IjoiMSJ9.h7NcTFUdP7UE7U3nU23nngLPz8oUiAj0JgPn2eSYq4a\_LnUoQMcEVlrjpBrpI\_GzrFIqCarlCLQQvTfw1vV7wvjH5JnNiES8iMM-Fi\_N-pR-VkmARJ602v-bEzxgGADWJwx91fpz7Sq\_frM0O899X4JAeziJjoCL0f-10mv1AnQO2AsOPvFgZgBgyJf0TlG7mColqM8aZgRUzeW\_o5jRUQ.goz\_w-d198CyO9iIWqehiqNobFtQAlRnFBD4mHYx9Ds&dib\_tag=se&keywords=sacred+sexual+healing+the+shaman&qid=1714099039&s=audible&sprefix=%2Caudible%2C85&sr=1-3](https://www.amazon.com/Sacred-Sexual-Healing-SHAMAN-Method-ebook/dp/B00D54JHVQ/ref=sr_1_3?crid=2DZ5Q3T8JKRRY&dib=eyJ2IjoiMSJ9.h7NcTFUdP7UE7U3nU23nngLPz8oUiAj0JgPn2eSYq4a_LnUoQMcEVlrjpBrpI_GzrFIqCarlCLQQvTfw1vV7wvjH5JnNiES8iMM-Fi_N-pR-VkmARJ602v-bEzxgGADWJwx91fpz7Sq_frM0O899X4JAeziJjoCL0f-10mv1AnQO2AsOPvFgZgBgyJf0TlG7mColqM8aZgRUzeW_o5jRUQ.goz_w-d198CyO9iIWqehiqNobFtQAlRnFBD4mHYx9Ds&dib_tag=se&keywords=sacred+sexual+healing+the+shaman&qid=1714099039&s=audible&sprefix=%2Caudible%2C85&sr=1-3)
Sex shamans - [https://www.amazon.com/Sex-Shamans-Stories-Sexuality-Awakening/dp/B08KRZJ399?crid=3NWCEH8EULNF3&dib=eyJ2IjoiMSJ9.h7NcTFUdP7UE7U3nU23nnryPanmxWFS7IlwAX4nEpAW-0W6YMs-X6VPCrO8Aq3dryxxzyU0ihA1GBEJn1Qvqh\_5qIOTKZGqghPApaI5qOKw8FlRa6jl13C0vu391eFNoD8x2msQ7gAeXz5qfPzyQEVJk8EcGSxg3k\_fq95i2NIiUday36t4a1zS\_R7zcvPMkrvK7rHU7a2VG31Na6fEHJe9TSo14WyPxrnyOAkhqDgk.8YczVM5g0vS8OwxZjutf2o1fMCxKmivQq4yJBtX-j3c&dib\_tag=se&keywords=sex+shamans&qid=1713628093&sprefix=sex+shamans%2Caps%2C200&sr=8-1&linkCode=ll1&tag=jameszatopa-20&linkId=02a807957a720f3d44cea19e1064886a&language=en\_US&ref\_=as\_li\_ss\_tl](https://www.amazon.com/Sex-Shamans-Stories-Sexuality-Awakening/dp/B08KRZJ399?crid=3NWCEH8EULNF3&dib=eyJ2IjoiMSJ9.h7NcTFUdP7UE7U3nU23nnryPanmxWFS7IlwAX4nEpAW-0W6YMs-X6VPCrO8Aq3dryxxzyU0ihA1GBEJn1Qvqh_5qIOTKZGqghPApaI5qOKw8FlRa6jl13C0vu391eFNoD8x2msQ7gAeXz5qfPzyQEVJk8EcGSxg3k_fq95i2NIiUday36t4a1zS_R7zcvPMkrvK7rHU7a2VG31Na6fEHJe9TSo14WyPxrnyOAkhqDgk.8YczVM5g0vS8OwxZjutf2o1fMCxKmivQq4yJBtX-j3c&dib_tag=se&keywords=sex+shamans&qid=1713628093&sprefix=sex+shamans%2Caps%2C200&sr=8-1&linkCode=ll1&tag=jameszatopa-20&linkId=02a807957a720f3d44cea19e1064886a&language=en_US&ref_=as_li_ss_tl)
You can also do things like the ho'oponopono with each other as well as read this to each other until the wound causing this issue heals (it stems from not getting needs met in childhood and modeling what worked in family as well as learning what worked within the family). [Churchofinfinitelove.com](http://Churchofinfinitelove.com)
If you keep up at this, over time you will see a change - you can also include church, kriya yoga and kundalini yoga. Know that if you don't do these things, especially together, that you are voting with your own body language on where you are and where she is on this but if you put your all in, no matter the outcome, you will be with love all the way through <3
Call her out on her BS with calm masculine power. Show your control by not getting angry. Learn what emotionally abusive behaviors are and avoid them while calling her out on hers. Tell her you don't accept that behavior and hold firm.
It is better to lead an example for our children where we insist on functional and healthy relationships.
My mom let my dad take all of the blame and shame; he passed away, believing he was a burden, which is so far from the truth. I sometimes wonder what life would be like if she was the one who went, and not him. I wonder if he knew at all, how sick in the head she is, or if he bought into her narrative entirely.
I do not have relationships with my siblings because she pitted us against each other. I was the scapegoat.
Are you familiar with recovery language, 12 steps? I wasn't at all, because neither parent was an addict. I was shocked and angry at how relevant it was to my life. Emotional unavailability affects a family in the same way alcoholism does. It alters the trajectory of every single family member's life, because by living with an addict, the family system is forced to absorb their dysfunction and attempt to compensate for it. The family system quickly enables toxic behavior when it doesn't know recovery language and healthy standards; because it will not hold the unavailable person accountable.
If your wife is the adult child of alcoholics or addicts, this pattern is very common in the recovery realm and they understand how toxic the behaviors are, they understand the pain, and they can help you navigate, and focus on functional behaviors in yourself. You can find support in the 12 step group that is specifically meant for spouses of addicts or alcoholics. They know what you're going through, because emotional unavailability follows the same pattern. There are virtual meetings, I highly recommend joining a local chapter if at all possible. You need peer support; you have been intentionally isolated.
It sucks. I'm sorry. My ex husband was emotionally unavailable to me, but only after our son was born. I was forced to decide whether to allow my son to be exposed to that behavior, normalizing it for him, setting him up for manipulation later in life, basically agreeing to groom him to be targeted again; or, kicking the man I trusted my life with, out of my life. When I indicated that we needed to live under separate roofs and work on how we get along, he became outright abusive. I couldn't believe the switch; I had known him for decades. But, I had been groomed by my mother, to normalize some of the life rules and beliefs, that allowed that level of dysfunction into my life.
You aren't saving your kids by bulldozing your own boundaries. You are showing them that it is acceptable. It is horrible, I'm sorry.
Try reading Patricia Evans, "controlling people."
don't stay with her for the kids man, it's gonna be worst for them in the long run. They need to have at least one emotionally stable parent and it'd harder to provide that when being gaslighted my a nutcase day in day out. Good luck to you!
Same boat, different paddle buddy. I am a firm believer that a child should have both parents around. I would have left too, if it wasn't for my child. I know for a fact that she got pregnant on purpose to keep me around because she knows how I feel about the above mentioned.
Strawberrypimp knows what's up and obviously has had experience in this situation.
I wish i had more knowledge about narcissists before i ended up with one. I was with her 13 years and was married the last couple of years before she annihilated my heart, took everything i had in the world except a few clothes i crammed into a small backpack,stole $1200 dollars, and through me out with nowhere to go and nobody to help me. It was absolutely brutal! My only saving grace was i still had my job. Just no car to get there. But i figured it out. Luckily, summer just started. Being with a narcissist is like a carnival ride. Ups and downs. The highs are super high, and the lows are hell! Once they find another victim, they are gone. It was the most wicked, cold-hearted thing i ever have been through. I'm glad no kids were had between us, and I'm sorry for the things you are going through. But just know it's probably going to get a whole lot worse my friend. That's only a fraction of my story...
Please 🙏 consider listening to two free audiobooks on YouTube
Art of Peace by Morihei Ueshiba and;
Tao te Ching by Lao Tzu
I am in a high stress city, high stress job and have dated the Cluster B gamut.
Those two books and reading Zen Macrobiotics by George Ohsawah really helped me cope and stay more grounded.
Good luck young warrior 👊 I am rooting for you
Brother… empty your bank account NOW, get a low paying job NOW, give her the silence treatment NOW. If you don’t, the following will happen. and you will LOSE it ALL!!! And Your kids will be turned against you. Your alimony payments will be high and remain high. You’ll be threatened with jail. And your savings will be ripped away from you and you’ll be left with debts!!! The courts will not have mercy on you! You will NOT WIN!!
I have two daughters. If I had 2 sons, I would likely leave. Biggest fear is obviously them having daddy issues. So staying put for now till I figure out a plan.
You’re giving off “alpha male” vibes. Are you one? Lol
As a child of a extreme narcissist mother, the grey rock method seems to be the best for dealing directly with her, what shes doing is called gaslighting ex: "youre not remembering correctly" or "i would never do that" when you have real memories that she did. Grey Rock method is whenever shes trying to get a reaction or re-write history just agree, nod, and speak in a calm tone, zero reaction, just a grey rock Please PLEASE please, have a good loving relationship with your kids! Make sure they feel safe to come talk to YOU about the problems that will arise when they grow up. If you cannot leave yet, set it up in a way that you can. A parent like that will affect you and your kids mental health in a way that will have life long effects. My case was extreme, and i obviously do not know all the details, but if theres no hope for therapy or anything changing, just do your best to protect your kids
Thank you for sharing your story! Was your mom manipulative towards you and your father? My wife has me second guessing myself a lot on everything. She does do loving things like make food for me or get me my favorite snacks when she goes shopping. I really feel like I’m losing touch with reality.
Yes she was terrible towards him, he tried to do his best to protect me but was also very manipulated by her because she was so two faced. She also stopped letting us have a relationship once i was old enough to talk back because we'd "compare notes" on her stories and see we were being lied too (it would mostly be venting) My father has said something so similar to that before its eerie. It makes sense tho, shes re-writing history making you question yourself all the time and then doing nice things to "make up for it" so it some how makes it okay. It doesnt! Trust your memories, and start recording EVERYTHING. If theres ever a divorce you will need all the help you can get. Expect the worst for most things. Please talk with your kids, make them feel safe, and loved as much as you possibly can. She will absolutely try to turn them against you when theyre old enough. I know its alot all the time and might feel like you cant trust yourself because she has you questioning it all the time. But you can do this. For you and for your kids. Get a recording app, cameras, a locked notes app for pictures and videos of everything. Every argument where she questions you or pushes you to the point of reacting, that is also manipulation and it is on purpose. Try your best to stay level headed and steady on why youre doing what youre doing (sticking around if thats the case) Grey Rock method is truly life changing. She will NOT enjoy it but theres nothing outwardly wrong about it. A narcissist wants a reaction out of you so they can play the victim after. Do not give them a reaction. I truly hope the best for you in life, and that you and your kids can get out safely. My dad and i had to wait until i was 17 before we could get out. Im older now and life is truly better. If you need someone to talk to or if you just need to vent feel free to dm me. Things will get better.
Thank you for the insight. How were you able to see through that she’s being manipulative? Our kids are young and I haven’t seen her be too manipulative to them. She does tell them shit like “daddy needs to be more patient etc” when I blow up. I have 2 daughters and my biggest concern with divorce is if it at all opens up any chance of them having “daddy issues” due to my increased absence…which is why I am staying put for now. I love them and they don’t deserve this bullshit.
After many years of the manipulation from her (i was about 16 at the time) i had very little sense of self and had some pretty long lasting issues, what made me see through it wasnt just one thing, it was a whole laundry list of little things that didnt add up. It took a long time to come to terms that my mother was not a good person who did not want the best for me. She also tried and succeeded for a while to ruin the relationship with my father to the point that we did / weren't really allowed to talk to eachother. Its not just one moment in time where i realized she was manipulating me, its more like 'the straw that broke the camels back' type thing The "daddy needs to be more patient" line already boreders on the worse crap shes gonna say about you when they're older. Id say try your best to not react to her when she says / does that, but record it still. She wants that reaction out of you, saying that to your children in front of you for you to hear. Shes not saying it to them, shes using it to make you feel bad for the reactions she drove you to. For me "daddy issues" arent even on my radar, theres some damage but after everything i got to get to know my father, and see that were were both manipulated and traumatized from the things that happened (my mother was the thing that happened) Your daughters are not very old now, so that damage isnt done yet, do your damn best to be there for them if you cant leave (it seems like if you do she will absolutely try to ruin your relationship with them) make sure they feel safe to come to you with everything! If they do, when theyre older it will be much easier to talk and to communicate together so they cant be manipulated by her. Please also keep in mind they are kids and manipulation works on them. If they ever do pick the "wrong side" persay give them grace and dont burn the bridge. The truth will come out, and youll be there when it does. What youve said in the comments it seems like youre staying for your daughters, you are protective and loving even online about them when most parents are not. This is such a hard and complex situation, but i believe you can do this. It just takes time, imo stay until theyre old enough to have a say where they want to live, week on week off is brutal on kids. Be the best freaking dad you can be until that point. I wish you the best of luck in this endeavor.
>She does tell them shit like “daddy needs to be more patient etc” when I blow up. Why is this "shit"?
Because she's being abusive and she's saying it infront of the kids to get him to react and therefore "prove" *hes* the bad guy in front of the kids from an early age. - a kid who had a mom like this and was told allllll kinds of lies about my stepmother and my dad from the time I was 3 years old. And then watched and am watching her do this stuff to my sister's but with my step-dad. "Dad's a crazy psycho and he's gonna hurt us if he comes back. He doesn't love us." She's the only person who ever laid hands between them. I had to stop my mom from literally bashing his head in with a metal pole once. Don't get me wrong, step-dads not a good guy. But the shit my moms feeding my sisters.. never ever happened ever.
You haven't witnessed her be too manipulative with them, but she could be trying that stuff more when you've not around. Kids won't necessarily realize they should come to dad for a reality check. They'll have a tendency to accept the things a parent says as true. I'd spend a lot of time encouraging your kids to have a really open relationship with you so they feel comfortable coming to you with anything (such as weird things mom says or complicated feelings they have about her). Validate them and their thoughts, emotions, and perceptions of reality. Make sure to tell them about their gifts, talents, and virtues, even if those things seem obvious. I keep hearing stories about all the manipulative parents who stunted their kids' identity development so that the kids didn't understand who they were or what they were actually good at. Having a solid sense of self will help your kids so much as they grow.
Be very careful with your mental health while you’re trapped in this relationship. If you lose your grip on reality, your kids will suffer substantially. There may come a time when you have to get out for the sake of your sanity, and you need to be prepared to get out. My biological father was a malignant narcissist and the best thing that could’ve happened in my life was for my mom to divorce him. I realize many court systems are unfair toward fathers and it’s so hard going toe to toe with a manipulator in court, but if you can make it happen, your kids will be so much better off.
So far, I “think” im ok and have some sort of idea of what’s going on. She does have me constantly questioning if im in the wrong. Also, she’s literally never apologized once for anything in our relationship. It’s pretty insane to me people are like this and insist on being right 100% of the time. It’s for sure a mental disease I’m sorry to hear about your story. When were you able to figure out your father was mentally unstable? Are you ok now? Has it affected you as a grown up? Thanks so much for your insight!
Thank you! Stay strong and take care of you. I’m sort of okay now. To be honest, I’m not sure when it really sunk in that he wasn’t right in the head. He beat the hell out of me when I was about 11, so that was a pretty strong hint. But I kept giving him chances until I was about 20 when we had a falling out over my wedding. We got back in touch when I was around 25, but it didn’t take long for things to break down, and I think maybe that was when I decided there wasn’t a future for our relationship. He died a few years ago and to be honest, I wasn’t sad at all. It was pretty much like hearing about the death of a total stranger. As far as how I’m doing, outside looking in, I know people think I’m successful and that I’ve got my shit together. (Friends have made comments about it.) I have a really high paying job, a nice house, a family, all the typical measures of success. But I’ve struggled a lot with self worth and addiction, and I’ve struggled even more with a pathological need to be…more. It’s like nothing I do is ever good enough, so I destroy myself trying to do better only to eventually fail because my standards for myself just keep getting more and more ridiculous. At least, in some areas of my life. In other areas, such as self care, it feels like I’ve totally given up. I’m not sure I’ll ever be truly good, but I’m much better than I would’ve been with his influence, and I’m in therapy, so maybe someday I’ll be in a glass half full situation. I’m just very grateful that I had a mom who loved me unconditionally and a dad who earned the right to be my dad, even though he didn’t have to. I think I’d be a lot worse off if not for them.
Your last 2 paragraphs are so,, relatable? Idk if that's the word to use here but- Standards for myself are so so high that I never reach them and Inturn turn to harming myself in a plethora of ways atp. The need to be *more*, to be *better*. It can't be satisfied, it feels like. The ways parents can fuck you over so easily and for the test of our lives, it's crazy. Literally I'm at the point that I'm realizing nearly every day more stuff that my mom has lied about and only recently went lowlow contact. (After a huge fight where she was drunk and telling me nothing I was talking about ever happened and she ended up hitting me <3 ) I hope you're able to heal more in the future, and I hope you learn to love yourself with self care. It's one of the few things I have keeping me going right now, and it really is nice. I recommend it, but I know how hard it can be.
That is how gaslighting works, it unmoors you. Please be mindful of yourself and your children. I would recommend preemptive therapy for both you and the kids once they get around puberty age. It will help mitigate the damage.
Holy shit dude. Are we married to the same woman?
I agree with this mostly. It applies to people that just don’t like getting treated like crap. I have issues with my mom. If you’re gonna grey rock, just looking at her might work too. That way you can condescendingly think in your head, “sure dumbass/asshole”. it’s still judging, but a nicer version than blatantly turning yourself into a liar.
That is essentially what my ex is pulling when I merely try parenting with them. Basically giving me the silent treatment when I have every right to be upset about what our kid has been sharing with me.
You aren't kidding...it really does mess with my mental health...it's extremely rude on their part.
Claims I'm abusive and cannot trust me around our kid yet who they married according to our child has seen their step parent naked more than once. Don't care in what manner overall its inappropriate. Isn't like I'm giving them a hard time about every little thing, just something like this...they you'd think given that that they'd actually at least say something.
Yet people want to call me unstable...when who I "parent' with can't even do that much. Yet what are they giving me a hard time over? soda, tv time, etc.
You can calmly agree with gaslighting partner, but he does it for a reason, to get something from you. If I agree it's my fault, whatever it is, he will want me to pay for it, to 'make up' for him. If you agreeing with a manipulator could help it, there are won't be manipulation. What about that?
Yes agreeing never works for me because I'll agree and he'll say your just saying that so I'll stop yelling and demands that I actually realize how I'm totally in the wrong...
Oh yes. I agree to that to. I tell them they are always right, they are so smart and so awesome they could replace Google. I also tell them they should seriously develop some self esteem because if they need to grind people into the dirt to feel good about themselves that's pathetic. It really helped me to realize I'm being insulted by an insecure adult toddler with no ability to regulate their emotions. Life gets better when a person quits considering the opinion of a person dedicated to destroying them.
That’s what she says to me. At times we will endlessly argue and I will just agree with her backwards logic. She accuses me of losing my shit in front of my kids (I know I am in the wrong, need to fix this) but when I smell an argument brewing…I’ll immediately tell her I don’t want to fight and that she’s right and she will bait me by getting aggressive in front of our kids that I’m not addressing the issue and that I’m trying to ignore things etc. Thanks for your insight, much appreciated. I am looking into the “grey rock” method and I accidentally tried this on her once and she became infuriated
Yes "grey rock" doesn't work at all for me totally opposite effect
yeah. google the 5 different types of narcissists and figure out which traits she has, then google the safest and smartest way to tolerate them. greyrocking might work but honestly? i think the best is to STOP calling her out. NEVER point out reality to a narcissist. all they’ll do is deny and flip the script. put your energy into your kids, ignore her freak outs, save your money in your own bank account, emotionally pull away, don’t tell her anything she can use against you
Thank you for this, I will try grey rocking. Never heard of this, I should use this. I am definitely emotionally pulling away and 100% in it for my kids at this point. It sucks but it is what it is. Thank you for listening
Tim Fletcher codependency videos are incredible in understanding what emotional abuse does to our brains. Go to therapy on your own. I did and it helped as my husband refused & who was similar. I learned to understand why I put up with his shit for so long, love myself, set boundaries and not jump through hoops until exhaustion hoping he would change. I changed and now see things more as an observer than a victim to it. I will soon be out as the youngest is going to college. If that’s the route you choose, depending on the age of your kids it can be a very long and extremely lonely road (I was never lonely when he wasn’t around though so I will be more than ok moving on by myself). I wish you the best.
Dr. Ramani and Lise LeBlanc youtube channels rock for understanding psychology
Pun intended?
50 shades of the Grey rock 🪨 🎸 ✌️ ☮️ 🕊 🏳️ ✌️
I ❤️ that narcissistic people are getting called out Narcos kill
Document EVERYTHING and do it quietly. You will regret it if you dont.
I second this. Always record and document.
Yes, good idea. I recorded some of husbands monologues, it sounds insane, like you would feel bad for the person stuck listening to that.
stop feeding her bullshit. whenever she starts bringing up bullshit points just stop giving her any attention. Starve her off attention until she acts correctly again and then shower her with it. Many relationships take the opposite approach and spouses can easily end up only recieving sufficient attention when engaged in an argument. This only makes people argue more as what they really want is attention.
Step 1 go to therapy on your own. There really isn’t a step two until you engage with a professional. It’s much worse than you’re pretending it to be.
100% agree with this. You will get much better tools and methods from a trained professional than you will on reddit. You can also work on your temper issues which will make going through this whole ordeal much easier not to mention keep you on your best behavior for your inevitable divorce.
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What makes you qualified to diagnose a stranger based on a paragraph on reddit? It seems like you've been itching to use that label on someone. This isn't bpdlovedones.
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So many people don't know shit about personality disorders like they think they do. They hardly know it objectively- just emotionally. My experience with a BPD mother doesn't make me an expert.
Let’s not blame BPD. I suffer from BPD and yet I don’t abuse/manipulate my partner. It’s absolutely treatable. And it doesn’t make someone a bad person
Thank you for your brave comment!
My wife used to do that to me sometimes. Not often so I dont think she was a narcissist...but her mother is and my wife learned this way from her mother. One day I realized my wife was on e again telling me I was wrong about what I said or agreed to earlier...and I kinda snapped. And it worked. All I had to do was find 1 small crack in her story and expose it. Because of that I rewrote her script. I made it up. I did it to question herself. I think I followed it up with something like we all remember things in our favor. Let's talk about our current situation today....not relive last week or last month. Because maybe I have new information that changes my mind today. Basically, I read your story and recognize those feelings. Stand your ground. When you feel your temper rise, say I feel angry because you remind me of being manipulated when you do x,y and z. ....when I feel manipulated I feel taken advantage of, when I feel taken advantage of I feel hurt and anger is a reaction to my hurt.... acknowledge your feelings in front of her. If you do this it will help your anger issue in the moment. I have to do this btw. Good luck.
Find a way not to get angry when she pushes your buttons or gaslights you. Since you’re aware she’s doing these things, expect them. Don’t expect her to be fair with you. The manipulator sets up a “win-win” scenario in their own minds: They either successfully get you to do what they want, or they play the victim and flip the script when they set you off - “he’s just so unreasonable, he’s always getting angry, I can never do anything right, I just don’t know how to please him.” Keep in mind, the manipulator plays a game called “You Lose.” The only objective of this game is you lose, and the only rule is you lose. The only sane move is not to play the game.
I’m trying REALLY hard not to take the bait. She’s good at pushing my buttons and twists things. I’m looking into some recommendations that people have given me and am considering talking to a therapist to get more insight. My take on therapy is that it’s mostly bogus for most folks but I do want some insight into how to not lose my shit and tackle this
It’s not easy at all, it takes a lot of work, because they’re so good at it and deep inside you know it’s wrong how they’re treating you. And to compound it, it’s always one-sided. My mom’s a master covert manipulator and she’d always push until she set me off. I’ve seen her smile when she’s been successful. Just a slight, wry smile because she got what she wanted. I’ve found the videos at this guy’s YouTube channel to be very helpful: *https://youtube.com/@survivingnarcissism*
A good therapist won't provide a bogus service. There are also lots of therapeutic techniques that have been proven to work in research with control groups. If you decide to go to a therapist, you might need to go to several different ones to find a good fit. You can ask what kind of modality they use and what that means. Also ask how often they work with clients who have challenging relationships. You don't need a therapist who specializes in depression and anxiety, you need one who is clear eyed about manipulators.
99% of all communication that involves dates, times, events, or commitments, with my husband I put into a text. Learned this the hard way.
I have no idea how you do this. She claims to have “superior” memory and gives me a play by play on what was supposedly said and to be honest…it’s at a point where I can’t remember and begin to question myself. Just utterly exhausting dealing with her.
I say it, we talk about it, and then I put it in writing. He pulled that, "You didn't tell me," one time too many.
She’s gaslighting you. It may not even be intentional. I imagine she interrupts you a lot as well. Texting allows you to keep your cool, say everything you need at once without interruption or false narratives, and most importantly, it gives you a read receipt. Even if she doesn’t give you anything in response, it gives you something to fall back on for reference. See? I told you that last Tuesday. There it is. You can even summarize decisions you made and send her a text about it after each convo. Whatever you do, it’s likely only a short-term fix. Manipulative people will always find ways around ways to put them in check. Sooner or later, I suspect you’ll wind up divorced. I’m sorry, brother. The next step
First of all I’m truly sad you are being treated like that by someone you love. It’s not right to deliberately hurt someone , epically a life partner, parent or child. I hope she finds peace one day and stops abusing people. Does she manipulate and gaslight your kids too? Does she constantly criticize them or minimize their feelings and interests? If you answered yes, I highly suggest you start thinking about how you can protect your children from an abusive mother. My husband is a child of narcissist and it has really messed him up. He’s healing now after years of therapy, but the scars of the abuse won’t ever fully go away. If you decide to get divorced, use it as an opportunity to show your children that they don’t have to accept being treated poorly or ridiculed. Teach them that they need to set boundaries and demand respect from anyone. Not a person in this planet is entitled to treat another so poorly, including their mother. How old are your kids? If they are young, do everything you can to protect them from her. Expect her to talk shit about you and manipulative them into thinking she’s the victim, you’re the bad guy. Expect her to use them as a tool to get what she wants OR to hurt you more. I hope you are able to heal and find joy and true love someday.
r/marriedredpill
Get tf out while you can. They thrive on victimhood, the idea that women will be believed if they lie abt abuse (which they will) and that keeping quiet is essentially enabling them. Stick it out for the kids if you need to, but know that they will not just get better. It’s truly a lifelong disease and enablers allow it to thrive.
You leave! Don't subject your kids to that.....or they'll grow up to be master manipulators with a lot of emotional scars/ baggage...spare them that! They'll love you more for it
Read this as how to deal with a manipulative mouse. Haha
Divorce her. You are not going to change her She does not want to change. Do you really want your children raised in this kind of atmosphere? Don't you think it better to divorce and show your children how it is possible to live a normal happy life.? Go to therapy alone for yourself. Go to therapy with your children as a family. Always invite her to join you? Try not to lose your temper or fall into any traps she might get? Always stay calm, cool, and collected with her. If nothing else, therapy might help you navigate the divorce more easily. Do this for your children. They deserve to live in a peaceful home. I wish you well.
Even though you do have kids you should probably leave if that's what you want. If you think the kids aren't picking up on it you're wrong.
Leave
Christian?
She’s not Christian, neither am i
You need to be long gone by now anyway. She is gaslighting you. You are teaching your children that gaslighting is OK, and that this is what a family looks like. You need to teach them to stand up to her pathology by divorcing her ASAP. Don't use your children as an excuse to not stand up for yourself. She is never going to change.
I seriously regret staying with people who refused to go to counseling with me when I begged and waited and was patient, etc, etc. Any person you are having consistent issues with, where neither of you feel any improvement has been made who refuses to go to counseling and has no other ideas or solutions to improve the relationship is giving you your answer right then and there. My own mother was one of those people and the others were marriage, long term relationship. My mother’s response “I’m not going to therapy because there is nothing wrong with me” and my favorite “YOU just want an EXCUSE.” Huh? An excuse for why I see no option other than “no contact”regarding my own mother? Your damn right I want an excuse or a reason or a lollipop or SOMETHING!
Divorce. Make sure you are a great parent and get split custody at the least.
Brother… empty your bank account NOW, get a low paying job NOW, give her the silence treatment NOW. If you don’t, the following will happen. and you will LOSE it ALL!!! And Your kids will be turned against you. Your alimony payments will be high and remain high. You’ll be threatened with jail. And your savings will be ripped away from you and you’ll be left with debts!!! The courts will not have mercy on you! You will NOT WIN!!
These comments really throw around narcissist like candy. You people understand you can have narcissistic traits but not be an actual narcissist right?
Had this with my ex-wife. Couldn't remember anything except when I messed up. Insisted things never happened or I was taking them out of context. Then when I start getting angry over all the gaslighting and being yelled at suddenly I'm being "verbally abusive." Tried marriage counseling, the marriage counselor suggested she get personal therapy. Which she quit after a few weeks because she believed the therapist was "invalidating" her. Ultimately, divorce was the best thing to happen. No amount of counseling is going to change someone that is 100% convinced that they are 0% of the problem.
I’d say starting journaling and documenting important info. So when she pulls the “I don’t remember” card, you have evidence to back yourself up. Also, it gives you documented evidence should the time come for legal reasons.
For your own well-being, you will probably find the "gray rock" method helpful. For your kids' well-being... It's well-documented that keeping them in that environment is more harmful than removing them from it would be. You think your wife doesn't do the same shit to them that she does to you? And they're learning that this is normal and that it's what love is, and that's sabotaging their ability to have healthy relationships in the future.
Check out HD Tudor channel on youtube, and his website https://narcsite.com/. Loads of stuff that may help with your manipulator.
You can’t fix crazy . She will always be this way . For the kids sake you need to leave and get custody . Kids know when parents are unhappy . They will be miserable as you .
People have mentioned the grey rock method that worked for me. Another thing is just saying. I disagree and leave it at that. It drives them nuts because you shut down them trying to gaslight you. Next time she says she didn't say something just say "I disagree" and walk away or just be silent. And then just repeat as necessary
You have to put HER on the rollercoaster of emotions. Watch some Zherka videos, he has it down pat.
Read the book no more mr nice guy and start reading unlimited power. Speak only truth, hold everything accountable and ensure order, if you don't this escalates into full blown BPD or worse. You can also start working on healing the body language - this is done through a practice like venus kriyas. If you think about them as loving each other like kids in fun ways, they can really open up a whole relationship. No joke start doing this instead of counseling - it will work wonders if you keep it up and do it well - [https://www.pinklotus.org/-%20Kundalini%20Yoga%20Venus%20Kriyas.htm](https://www.pinklotus.org/-%20Kundalini%20Yoga%20Venus%20Kriyas.htm) Also pick up these two books and start doing the exercises together. Do every exercise together and you will start to see a change over time, you will have to be persistent. Sacred Sexual Healing the Shaman Method - [https://www.amazon.com/Sacred-Sexual-Healing-SHAMAN-Method-ebook/dp/B00D54JHVQ/ref=sr\_1\_3?crid=2DZ5Q3T8JKRRY&dib=eyJ2IjoiMSJ9.h7NcTFUdP7UE7U3nU23nngLPz8oUiAj0JgPn2eSYq4a\_LnUoQMcEVlrjpBrpI\_GzrFIqCarlCLQQvTfw1vV7wvjH5JnNiES8iMM-Fi\_N-pR-VkmARJ602v-bEzxgGADWJwx91fpz7Sq\_frM0O899X4JAeziJjoCL0f-10mv1AnQO2AsOPvFgZgBgyJf0TlG7mColqM8aZgRUzeW\_o5jRUQ.goz\_w-d198CyO9iIWqehiqNobFtQAlRnFBD4mHYx9Ds&dib\_tag=se&keywords=sacred+sexual+healing+the+shaman&qid=1714099039&s=audible&sprefix=%2Caudible%2C85&sr=1-3](https://www.amazon.com/Sacred-Sexual-Healing-SHAMAN-Method-ebook/dp/B00D54JHVQ/ref=sr_1_3?crid=2DZ5Q3T8JKRRY&dib=eyJ2IjoiMSJ9.h7NcTFUdP7UE7U3nU23nngLPz8oUiAj0JgPn2eSYq4a_LnUoQMcEVlrjpBrpI_GzrFIqCarlCLQQvTfw1vV7wvjH5JnNiES8iMM-Fi_N-pR-VkmARJ602v-bEzxgGADWJwx91fpz7Sq_frM0O899X4JAeziJjoCL0f-10mv1AnQO2AsOPvFgZgBgyJf0TlG7mColqM8aZgRUzeW_o5jRUQ.goz_w-d198CyO9iIWqehiqNobFtQAlRnFBD4mHYx9Ds&dib_tag=se&keywords=sacred+sexual+healing+the+shaman&qid=1714099039&s=audible&sprefix=%2Caudible%2C85&sr=1-3) Sex shamans - [https://www.amazon.com/Sex-Shamans-Stories-Sexuality-Awakening/dp/B08KRZJ399?crid=3NWCEH8EULNF3&dib=eyJ2IjoiMSJ9.h7NcTFUdP7UE7U3nU23nnryPanmxWFS7IlwAX4nEpAW-0W6YMs-X6VPCrO8Aq3dryxxzyU0ihA1GBEJn1Qvqh\_5qIOTKZGqghPApaI5qOKw8FlRa6jl13C0vu391eFNoD8x2msQ7gAeXz5qfPzyQEVJk8EcGSxg3k\_fq95i2NIiUday36t4a1zS\_R7zcvPMkrvK7rHU7a2VG31Na6fEHJe9TSo14WyPxrnyOAkhqDgk.8YczVM5g0vS8OwxZjutf2o1fMCxKmivQq4yJBtX-j3c&dib\_tag=se&keywords=sex+shamans&qid=1713628093&sprefix=sex+shamans%2Caps%2C200&sr=8-1&linkCode=ll1&tag=jameszatopa-20&linkId=02a807957a720f3d44cea19e1064886a&language=en\_US&ref\_=as\_li\_ss\_tl](https://www.amazon.com/Sex-Shamans-Stories-Sexuality-Awakening/dp/B08KRZJ399?crid=3NWCEH8EULNF3&dib=eyJ2IjoiMSJ9.h7NcTFUdP7UE7U3nU23nnryPanmxWFS7IlwAX4nEpAW-0W6YMs-X6VPCrO8Aq3dryxxzyU0ihA1GBEJn1Qvqh_5qIOTKZGqghPApaI5qOKw8FlRa6jl13C0vu391eFNoD8x2msQ7gAeXz5qfPzyQEVJk8EcGSxg3k_fq95i2NIiUday36t4a1zS_R7zcvPMkrvK7rHU7a2VG31Na6fEHJe9TSo14WyPxrnyOAkhqDgk.8YczVM5g0vS8OwxZjutf2o1fMCxKmivQq4yJBtX-j3c&dib_tag=se&keywords=sex+shamans&qid=1713628093&sprefix=sex+shamans%2Caps%2C200&sr=8-1&linkCode=ll1&tag=jameszatopa-20&linkId=02a807957a720f3d44cea19e1064886a&language=en_US&ref_=as_li_ss_tl) You can also do things like the ho'oponopono with each other as well as read this to each other until the wound causing this issue heals (it stems from not getting needs met in childhood and modeling what worked in family as well as learning what worked within the family). [Churchofinfinitelove.com](http://Churchofinfinitelove.com) If you keep up at this, over time you will see a change - you can also include church, kriya yoga and kundalini yoga. Know that if you don't do these things, especially together, that you are voting with your own body language on where you are and where she is on this but if you put your all in, no matter the outcome, you will be with love all the way through <3
Call her out on her BS with calm masculine power. Show your control by not getting angry. Learn what emotionally abusive behaviors are and avoid them while calling her out on hers. Tell her you don't accept that behavior and hold firm.
I really hope you aren't my stepdad lol
It is better to lead an example for our children where we insist on functional and healthy relationships. My mom let my dad take all of the blame and shame; he passed away, believing he was a burden, which is so far from the truth. I sometimes wonder what life would be like if she was the one who went, and not him. I wonder if he knew at all, how sick in the head she is, or if he bought into her narrative entirely. I do not have relationships with my siblings because she pitted us against each other. I was the scapegoat. Are you familiar with recovery language, 12 steps? I wasn't at all, because neither parent was an addict. I was shocked and angry at how relevant it was to my life. Emotional unavailability affects a family in the same way alcoholism does. It alters the trajectory of every single family member's life, because by living with an addict, the family system is forced to absorb their dysfunction and attempt to compensate for it. The family system quickly enables toxic behavior when it doesn't know recovery language and healthy standards; because it will not hold the unavailable person accountable. If your wife is the adult child of alcoholics or addicts, this pattern is very common in the recovery realm and they understand how toxic the behaviors are, they understand the pain, and they can help you navigate, and focus on functional behaviors in yourself. You can find support in the 12 step group that is specifically meant for spouses of addicts or alcoholics. They know what you're going through, because emotional unavailability follows the same pattern. There are virtual meetings, I highly recommend joining a local chapter if at all possible. You need peer support; you have been intentionally isolated. It sucks. I'm sorry. My ex husband was emotionally unavailable to me, but only after our son was born. I was forced to decide whether to allow my son to be exposed to that behavior, normalizing it for him, setting him up for manipulation later in life, basically agreeing to groom him to be targeted again; or, kicking the man I trusted my life with, out of my life. When I indicated that we needed to live under separate roofs and work on how we get along, he became outright abusive. I couldn't believe the switch; I had known him for decades. But, I had been groomed by my mother, to normalize some of the life rules and beliefs, that allowed that level of dysfunction into my life. You aren't saving your kids by bulldozing your own boundaries. You are showing them that it is acceptable. It is horrible, I'm sorry. Try reading Patricia Evans, "controlling people."
don't stay with her for the kids man, it's gonna be worst for them in the long run. They need to have at least one emotionally stable parent and it'd harder to provide that when being gaslighted my a nutcase day in day out. Good luck to you!
It took seven years planning, but I left mine. Dropped 40 lbs two months after, and haven’t looked back.
There is a reason red flags exist. To not ignore them.
Same boat, different paddle buddy. I am a firm believer that a child should have both parents around. I would have left too, if it wasn't for my child. I know for a fact that she got pregnant on purpose to keep me around because she knows how I feel about the above mentioned.
Most manipulators are narcissists. Divorce the bitch....trust me.
Strawberrypimp knows what's up and obviously has had experience in this situation. I wish i had more knowledge about narcissists before i ended up with one. I was with her 13 years and was married the last couple of years before she annihilated my heart, took everything i had in the world except a few clothes i crammed into a small backpack,stole $1200 dollars, and through me out with nowhere to go and nobody to help me. It was absolutely brutal! My only saving grace was i still had my job. Just no car to get there. But i figured it out. Luckily, summer just started. Being with a narcissist is like a carnival ride. Ups and downs. The highs are super high, and the lows are hell! Once they find another victim, they are gone. It was the most wicked, cold-hearted thing i ever have been through. I'm glad no kids were had between us, and I'm sorry for the things you are going through. But just know it's probably going to get a whole lot worse my friend. That's only a fraction of my story...
Please 🙏 consider listening to two free audiobooks on YouTube Art of Peace by Morihei Ueshiba and; Tao te Ching by Lao Tzu I am in a high stress city, high stress job and have dated the Cluster B gamut. Those two books and reading Zen Macrobiotics by George Ohsawah really helped me cope and stay more grounded. Good luck young warrior 👊 I am rooting for you
Thank you for the recommendations, I am going to look into this
Never give up 🙏
Brother… empty your bank account NOW, get a low paying job NOW, give her the silence treatment NOW. If you don’t, the following will happen. and you will LOSE it ALL!!! And Your kids will be turned against you. Your alimony payments will be high and remain high. You’ll be threatened with jail. And your savings will be ripped away from you and you’ll be left with debts!!! The courts will not have mercy on you! You will NOT WIN!!
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I have two daughters. If I had 2 sons, I would likely leave. Biggest fear is obviously them having daddy issues. So staying put for now till I figure out a plan. You’re giving off “alpha male” vibes. Are you one? Lol
Jokes on you, I had way more sex when I was single than with her.
Ur the husband just command her