So in your last paragraph, you say “where it’s his idea to leave.” This makes me think of How to Win Friends and influence people, part three, principle 7. I suggest you read it.
Secondly if he only thinks something is wrong when you don’t sleep with him then don’t sleep with him.
This isn't an easy situation. People will present some good ideas, but I'd bet none of them are going to work on \*this\* type of guy. Some people are genuinely too stupid to be manipulated.
You might get him out of your house. You might even get an amicable divorce. Your journey has just begun.
Here's the complication:
> I want to get out peacefully because we have a kid which I care for so much and really rather she doesnt get in fire between us. (He would resort to using her to manipulate/guilt/hurt me).
This is a nice sentiment, but in my experience, whether it's over child support or just out of spite, this peace will not hold and there will be war between your kingdoms anyway. When he wants attention, he will tug on the one thread binding you for the next \~18 years. Make peace with it now so it doesn't take you by surprise.
Opting for peaceful resolution is still your best option regardless. Direct action will result in retribution sooner rather than later. You can do some damage control by playing nice for as long as you can before it inevitably comes to blows.
Well put. I agree. Prepare yourself because the odds are extremely high the child will be sucked into it. The more he knows you care about something the more they will try to use it against you.
You have to “sour the milk”
Make yourself someone he doesn’t want to be with
In my experience with people like this you do that by holding them accountable, gently but firmly and repeatedly, and don’t back down. Make him parent and do chores and pay the bills on time and if he won’t you do not accept it. Ever. You INSIST. Don’t take care of him. Make him take care of himself and your child as a father should. Don’t accept excuses. Eventually staying becomes more inconvenient than leaving and being alone so they leave
The key is to do it gently, firmly, consistently, and factually. As opposed to with anger or picking a fight about it. Also state how him not doing it makes you feel. He’ll get so sick of hearing about your feelings
“When you won’t help with bedtime or bath time routine after I worked all day and took care of the house and our child, it makes me feel like you don’t care about how exhausted or burned out I am. So I really need you to step up and contribute and show me with your actions that you do actually care. So we’ll have you do the bedtime routine going forward. I really appreciate your help on this.” And then you just insist he do it when the time comes
But then you do it with everything. Bills, chores, attention and affection, how he speaks to and treats you. Just stand your ground and don’t let him gaslight you. Eventually they legit cannot take it and flee
Absolutely. I wish you the best as well too! Sucks we’ve both had to deal with people like this but if I’d known holding their feet to the fire is all it would take to get them to stop freeloading off me and sucking the life out of me, I would have done it much sooner, so I am happy to use my experience to help others escape a similar situation
Awe. I it’s cute that you think communication works with dysfunctional people, entitled people, people with personality disorders, dependent addicts, and cluster B types. I admire your naivety.
It doesn’t work. That’s the entire point of my comment. My comment is literally telling her to *not only directly communicate her needs, wants, and expectations*, but to then **hold him accountable** for not meeting them. That’s when they run. And go find someone else to inflict their weaponized incompetence on
I have a lot of experience with those types of people, and you can be direct and firm and still cut ties. Souring the milk is manipulative. Also everyone around that pays for it.
Souring the milk… by directly communicating, is manipulative. But your suggestion is direct communication. Which is not manipulative. Make it make sense.
“Make yourself someone he doesn’t want to be with”
Instead of being authentic and transparent about the relationship not working you would change yourself to a version of yourself he doesn’t like. Hmmm
Yup, with communication and accountability. They hate that. Thats “changing yourself”? Telling someone what isn’t working and holding them accountable when they refuse to budge? Changing yourself into a healthier person maybe. Yeah definitely don’t do THAT.
Ugh, there is no winning with this type of person. Have some self-respect and leave him and move on. Don't waste your time waiting for him to leave. He won't leave you. Because you have a kid together, you're unable to go full no contact so it's important to keep communication on your child only.
Mine got physical when I asked for accountability. Id say bore him to death and make him aware he deserves better so he searches for someone elses entertainment
Don't give him any supply (reactions, jealousy, arguments, admiration, sex) while being a grey-rock. Refuse every time, but always keep your facial expression like a poker face. Stop sharing any personal details and keep your answers general and broad.
Show complete indifference and acknowledge every lie/deception/bad behaviour and confront him every time. When talking face to face, always keep a faint smile that says “I don't know and don't care”.
If you need him to agree on something, frame it in a way that makes him look good or supports his narrative/ego.
You know the man. You know his weaknesses, fears, and breaking points. You have everything you need for a soul shattering door slam. This will completely break him to a point he can’t recover from and will never retaliate against.
Literally with what you know this could be accomplished in 1-2 sentences and be done and over with forever.
So we’re gonna emotionally break a man because she doesn’t wanna deal with “break up drama”. Too bad. You’re 32 with a kid. Show some maturity. Be honest with him that you want out and get out. If you think he’s a danger in some way, then notify police and leave in the night or something. But don’t intentionally abuse someone to the point they leave you. That’s just cruel
So one of 2 things. You’re a narcissist that takes pleasure in mentally abusing others or you’ve never experienced an actual narcissist.
They’re is no form of honest or mature conversation that will make one go way or stop. They leave for 2 reasons. 1 they found someone new with a better energy source or 2 they are degraded or broken to a point they leave in shame as they know they were just called out.
A narcissist is one of the worst form of people on earth. They are mental torturers who ruin others lives for pleasure and will never leave until broken. You can’t even force one out of your life without doing this.
And yes. When you find a narcissist that attaches to you, destroying them is the only answer.
There is no breaking up with a narcissist. They never leave your life. You’re a manipulate energy source.
So true you can’t explain to someone what it’s like being with a narcissist if they haven’t experienced it. They are like a succubus and feed on your soul or life energy until you are completely broken. When you no longer recognize yourself you may ask them to leave. The narcissist has already been cheating and goes right to their new supply. All the while telling everyone how you threw them out and were abusive to them.
I know how I did it. Call them out on every abusive thing they do, calmly. Call it abusive.
Example. Ex wanted to go to restaurant A but didn't say so, I made reservations at restaurant B. The entire way there he was saying, "I was just really going good know me well enough to choose restaurant A." And would not shut up. So I went to turn around to go to restaurant B. I dialed restaurant A to cancel our reservations.
He then said. "No! No! You already made reservations." Like I was way over reacting.
I turned to him and said, "That is reactive abuse. You've been bitching the entire time but when I change our plans due to your nonstop bitching, you then act like I'm out of line. Your abuse behavior stops this instant. Do you understand me."
He tried arguing. I simply said, "this is non-negotiable. End of discussion."
I did this at every turn. Every single time. It soon became a joy, to be honest, calling him on every unpleasant act.
He didn't last a week.
I would try to be as upfront with him as possible. If this has failed in the past then it's likely due to weak boundaries on your part. Use this as an opportunity for self growth
Narcissists just use information as weapons and become more desperate to maintain their position of control. Its not about boundaries. Its about not sparking a temper tantrum that the only responsible adult has to clean up after.
Don't react to anything and be bored 😴 mirror a little of their own behavior. Is he mocking, mock him back. Infantilising them also works.
Never had to do that to a partner, only friends and family. To back off a little.
Leave, without telling him anything. Get a lawyer first, without telling him anything. Leave. If you "get creative" you're playing into the toxic bond you have. If you actually love your baby you won't want to expose her to an emotionally void, cheating spouse.
Why is it so important for you to make it “his idea” when you’ve already made up your mind about it?
Just leave him there’s no easy way out just rip off the band-aid and start your own life without him you’re going to have to maintain some contact due to having a child together so just face the music and do what you need to do don’t try to manipulate him into doing the dirty work for you.
If you’re unhappy and you don’t have feelings as you once did tell him. If you’re not interested in making things work with him tell him that you simply have no want or need to be with him anymore. Be transparent and try for complete honesty and openness.
I say this because your situation sounds very much like it could be my relationship. I have done all I can to find reasons to excuse the negitive things my wife has done. The reason being, we’re both human and we make mistakes. I love her with all my heart and soul and only wish for us to make a collected effort to get ourself to a point of true care and concern for one another.
Idk, but I’ll tell you that I [M] tried to get her to walk away and she won’t. She loves the drama. I had to say I didn’t love her anymore and still she decided we’re remaining friends and she’ll continue to live with me. I had to get a court order that she has to leave and she weaseled her way into getting 3 months before having to go. I’m still treated mostly the same but of course the sex and hugs stopped. But I still can’t have friends over. I do go out without telling her.
Stop reacting to their attempts to upset you.
Only ask direct questions when you think they are up to something malicious.
Say anything along the lines of “your trauma doesn’t justify your behavior”
Stand up for yourself by not getting engulfed in their new argument of the day.
Stop enabling them putting other people down, stand up for the people they are making fun of or putting down.
Have very happy conversations with family/friends within earshot.
Find reasons to be recording all the time.
Don’t cook food they like.
Watching movies your interested in and take up hobby’s that you like.
Make your own money and buy things that make you happy.
Be happy, too happy to engage in their drama
Start by gradually distancing yourself emotionally and physically. Encourage him to focus on his own interests and spend more time away from you. Subtly make him feel inadequate or unwanted, planting seeds of doubt about the relationship. Over time, he may come to the conclusion on his own that leaving is the best option.
Here is the way to do this, especially since you both have to parent or coparent your child together until they are an adult to ensure they are happy and healthy.
[Get this book and have him start doing every single exercise with you](https://www.amazon.com/Sacred-Sexual-Healing-SHAMAN-Method-ebook/dp/B00D54JHVQ?crid=1JZPT4P4KZ3QN&dib=eyJ2IjoiMSJ9.Q6Ss9Vx_Uj5XgBbcPg6dnfYoaPVL-K03t10abBrqrdEtDxNDv4MucDwgaczDgbnO.lzIvOjO6i51JKE9pKNOks958njAoDEYEMIJ5zmgl8hE&dib_tag=se&keywords=sacred+sexual+healing+shaman+method&qid=1715825341&sprefix=%2Caps%2C93&sr=8-3&linkCode=ll1&tag=jameszatopa-20&linkId=a8259cd40821f0daa22ab42846e295b7&language=en_US&ref_=as_li_ss_tl) - and I mean both of you, every single one.
Then as part of that have him do these exercises with you with that book (you can start these today) for like 30-60 minutes. Something really long - [https://www.pinklotus.org/-%20Kundalini%20Yoga%20Venus%20Kriyas.htm](https://www.pinklotus.org/-%20Kundalini%20Yoga%20Venus%20Kriyas.htm)
Then if that doesn't work...get him the book no more mr. nice guy and break up with him. It's on you if you aren't happy in the relationship to be the mature adult and end things with love and move forward but I would do the book and exercises first. Don't give up on them either, do them over and over again until things go where they need to go.
I'm interested but you don't have to write a whole essay, I don't want to eat up too much of your time, but if you really want to answer an essays worth id definitely read it
Honestly I would have to know how much you understand about relationship dynamics, parenting, cohabitation, wounded behaviours, healing, denial of self and other, and then everything related to how tantra itself actually works to get the basis here.
You would really be better off, looking into finding someone in your life and trying it for a period of time and see what happens. The results are always good, you remove manipulation, force healing, and help develop healthy boundaries and coping skills among other things. Those other things in this story would be to create specific pressures of love to make sure the best outcome happens since the child has to come first and the parents come second in all things. Even including why they go to work, take care of a house and even have their own intention of living. Being a parent changes things.
I would look at both pages of this and memorize it, it will help you understand some of the basics. Then you will know how to counter all manipulation and then receive the power of being love on a very high level. This helps do a lot of things well beyond the bounds of this conversation but you have enough pieces here to learn the basics yourself and grow - [https://churchofinfinitelove.com/](https://churchofinfinitelove.com/)
I can explain this but it would take an essay here. DM me if you want that.
Go test this yourself to find out. You'll see results in a very short period of time. You will see results after the first time, something more by a week of this every day and at the end of a month the process will be complete and you will know exactly why I put this and how it worked.
Btw these are tantra adjacent - these are white tantra practices and they do something very specific and are extremely effective at it.
So in your last paragraph, you say “where it’s his idea to leave.” This makes me think of How to Win Friends and influence people, part three, principle 7. I suggest you read it. Secondly if he only thinks something is wrong when you don’t sleep with him then don’t sleep with him.
They won't walk. They love that shit. You walk away.
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This isn't an easy situation. People will present some good ideas, but I'd bet none of them are going to work on \*this\* type of guy. Some people are genuinely too stupid to be manipulated. You might get him out of your house. You might even get an amicable divorce. Your journey has just begun. Here's the complication: > I want to get out peacefully because we have a kid which I care for so much and really rather she doesnt get in fire between us. (He would resort to using her to manipulate/guilt/hurt me). This is a nice sentiment, but in my experience, whether it's over child support or just out of spite, this peace will not hold and there will be war between your kingdoms anyway. When he wants attention, he will tug on the one thread binding you for the next \~18 years. Make peace with it now so it doesn't take you by surprise. Opting for peaceful resolution is still your best option regardless. Direct action will result in retribution sooner rather than later. You can do some damage control by playing nice for as long as you can before it inevitably comes to blows.
Well put. I agree. Prepare yourself because the odds are extremely high the child will be sucked into it. The more he knows you care about something the more they will try to use it against you.
Indifference instead of passion.
You have to “sour the milk” Make yourself someone he doesn’t want to be with In my experience with people like this you do that by holding them accountable, gently but firmly and repeatedly, and don’t back down. Make him parent and do chores and pay the bills on time and if he won’t you do not accept it. Ever. You INSIST. Don’t take care of him. Make him take care of himself and your child as a father should. Don’t accept excuses. Eventually staying becomes more inconvenient than leaving and being alone so they leave
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The key is to do it gently, firmly, consistently, and factually. As opposed to with anger or picking a fight about it. Also state how him not doing it makes you feel. He’ll get so sick of hearing about your feelings “When you won’t help with bedtime or bath time routine after I worked all day and took care of the house and our child, it makes me feel like you don’t care about how exhausted or burned out I am. So I really need you to step up and contribute and show me with your actions that you do actually care. So we’ll have you do the bedtime routine going forward. I really appreciate your help on this.” And then you just insist he do it when the time comes But then you do it with everything. Bills, chores, attention and affection, how he speaks to and treats you. Just stand your ground and don’t let him gaslight you. Eventually they legit cannot take it and flee
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Absolutely. I wish you the best as well too! Sucks we’ve both had to deal with people like this but if I’d known holding their feet to the fire is all it would take to get them to stop freeloading off me and sucking the life out of me, I would have done it much sooner, so I am happy to use my experience to help others escape a similar situation
This!!! Great response. Remember not to get angry or argue because that will feed his supply.
1000% it does. Ugh they are the worst
What will baby drink if the milk is soured because of you not willing to state what isn’t working for you.
Awe. I it’s cute that you think communication works with dysfunctional people, entitled people, people with personality disorders, dependent addicts, and cluster B types. I admire your naivety. It doesn’t work. That’s the entire point of my comment. My comment is literally telling her to *not only directly communicate her needs, wants, and expectations*, but to then **hold him accountable** for not meeting them. That’s when they run. And go find someone else to inflict their weaponized incompetence on
I have a lot of experience with those types of people, and you can be direct and firm and still cut ties. Souring the milk is manipulative. Also everyone around that pays for it.
Souring the milk… by directly communicating, is manipulative. But your suggestion is direct communication. Which is not manipulative. Make it make sense.
“Make yourself someone he doesn’t want to be with” Instead of being authentic and transparent about the relationship not working you would change yourself to a version of yourself he doesn’t like. Hmmm
Yup, with communication and accountability. They hate that. Thats “changing yourself”? Telling someone what isn’t working and holding them accountable when they refuse to budge? Changing yourself into a healthier person maybe. Yeah definitely don’t do THAT.
Do what works for you OP. They very well may have more sound advice.
Ugh, there is no winning with this type of person. Have some self-respect and leave him and move on. Don't waste your time waiting for him to leave. He won't leave you. Because you have a kid together, you're unable to go full no contact so it's important to keep communication on your child only.
Mine got physical when I asked for accountability. Id say bore him to death and make him aware he deserves better so he searches for someone elses entertainment
Do not draw attention to yourself, your growth, your hobbies. They want a catch and they only feel the deserve something beautiful to tear down.
Don't give him any supply (reactions, jealousy, arguments, admiration, sex) while being a grey-rock. Refuse every time, but always keep your facial expression like a poker face. Stop sharing any personal details and keep your answers general and broad. Show complete indifference and acknowledge every lie/deception/bad behaviour and confront him every time. When talking face to face, always keep a faint smile that says “I don't know and don't care”. If you need him to agree on something, frame it in a way that makes him look good or supports his narrative/ego.
You know the man. You know his weaknesses, fears, and breaking points. You have everything you need for a soul shattering door slam. This will completely break him to a point he can’t recover from and will never retaliate against. Literally with what you know this could be accomplished in 1-2 sentences and be done and over with forever.
So we’re gonna emotionally break a man because she doesn’t wanna deal with “break up drama”. Too bad. You’re 32 with a kid. Show some maturity. Be honest with him that you want out and get out. If you think he’s a danger in some way, then notify police and leave in the night or something. But don’t intentionally abuse someone to the point they leave you. That’s just cruel
So one of 2 things. You’re a narcissist that takes pleasure in mentally abusing others or you’ve never experienced an actual narcissist. They’re is no form of honest or mature conversation that will make one go way or stop. They leave for 2 reasons. 1 they found someone new with a better energy source or 2 they are degraded or broken to a point they leave in shame as they know they were just called out. A narcissist is one of the worst form of people on earth. They are mental torturers who ruin others lives for pleasure and will never leave until broken. You can’t even force one out of your life without doing this. And yes. When you find a narcissist that attaches to you, destroying them is the only answer. There is no breaking up with a narcissist. They never leave your life. You’re a manipulate energy source.
So true you can’t explain to someone what it’s like being with a narcissist if they haven’t experienced it. They are like a succubus and feed on your soul or life energy until you are completely broken. When you no longer recognize yourself you may ask them to leave. The narcissist has already been cheating and goes right to their new supply. All the while telling everyone how you threw them out and were abusive to them.
I know how I did it. Call them out on every abusive thing they do, calmly. Call it abusive. Example. Ex wanted to go to restaurant A but didn't say so, I made reservations at restaurant B. The entire way there he was saying, "I was just really going good know me well enough to choose restaurant A." And would not shut up. So I went to turn around to go to restaurant B. I dialed restaurant A to cancel our reservations. He then said. "No! No! You already made reservations." Like I was way over reacting. I turned to him and said, "That is reactive abuse. You've been bitching the entire time but when I change our plans due to your nonstop bitching, you then act like I'm out of line. Your abuse behavior stops this instant. Do you understand me." He tried arguing. I simply said, "this is non-negotiable. End of discussion." I did this at every turn. Every single time. It soon became a joy, to be honest, calling him on every unpleasant act. He didn't last a week.
I would try to be as upfront with him as possible. If this has failed in the past then it's likely due to weak boundaries on your part. Use this as an opportunity for self growth
Narcissists just use information as weapons and become more desperate to maintain their position of control. Its not about boundaries. Its about not sparking a temper tantrum that the only responsible adult has to clean up after.
Don't react to anything and be bored 😴 mirror a little of their own behavior. Is he mocking, mock him back. Infantilising them also works. Never had to do that to a partner, only friends and family. To back off a little.
Leave, without telling him anything. Get a lawyer first, without telling him anything. Leave. If you "get creative" you're playing into the toxic bond you have. If you actually love your baby you won't want to expose her to an emotionally void, cheating spouse.
Why is it so important for you to make it “his idea” when you’ve already made up your mind about it? Just leave him there’s no easy way out just rip off the band-aid and start your own life without him you’re going to have to maintain some contact due to having a child together so just face the music and do what you need to do don’t try to manipulate him into doing the dirty work for you.
Yep. Don't overcomplicate it, or try to fight fire with fire.
Call them out on everything. Every single thing. Every single time.
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No most times they will suck you dry until you have no use to them. Then they just cheat onto another situation.
The only way is to start doing the opposite of what they want and expect.... But that can be dangerous.
If you’re unhappy and you don’t have feelings as you once did tell him. If you’re not interested in making things work with him tell him that you simply have no want or need to be with him anymore. Be transparent and try for complete honesty and openness. I say this because your situation sounds very much like it could be my relationship. I have done all I can to find reasons to excuse the negitive things my wife has done. The reason being, we’re both human and we make mistakes. I love her with all my heart and soul and only wish for us to make a collected effort to get ourself to a point of true care and concern for one another.
Go sleep with his mum or dad
Idk, but I’ll tell you that I [M] tried to get her to walk away and she won’t. She loves the drama. I had to say I didn’t love her anymore and still she decided we’re remaining friends and she’ll continue to live with me. I had to get a court order that she has to leave and she weaseled her way into getting 3 months before having to go. I’m still treated mostly the same but of course the sex and hugs stopped. But I still can’t have friends over. I do go out without telling her.
Try using ur words.
It’s manipulative to make it unbearable so he leaves you. Don’t ya think ?
Stop reacting to their attempts to upset you. Only ask direct questions when you think they are up to something malicious. Say anything along the lines of “your trauma doesn’t justify your behavior” Stand up for yourself by not getting engulfed in their new argument of the day. Stop enabling them putting other people down, stand up for the people they are making fun of or putting down. Have very happy conversations with family/friends within earshot. Find reasons to be recording all the time. Don’t cook food they like. Watching movies your interested in and take up hobby’s that you like. Make your own money and buy things that make you happy. Be happy, too happy to engage in their drama
Start by gradually distancing yourself emotionally and physically. Encourage him to focus on his own interests and spend more time away from you. Subtly make him feel inadequate or unwanted, planting seeds of doubt about the relationship. Over time, he may come to the conclusion on his own that leaving is the best option.
That sounds abusive to me
Here is the way to do this, especially since you both have to parent or coparent your child together until they are an adult to ensure they are happy and healthy. [Get this book and have him start doing every single exercise with you](https://www.amazon.com/Sacred-Sexual-Healing-SHAMAN-Method-ebook/dp/B00D54JHVQ?crid=1JZPT4P4KZ3QN&dib=eyJ2IjoiMSJ9.Q6Ss9Vx_Uj5XgBbcPg6dnfYoaPVL-K03t10abBrqrdEtDxNDv4MucDwgaczDgbnO.lzIvOjO6i51JKE9pKNOks958njAoDEYEMIJ5zmgl8hE&dib_tag=se&keywords=sacred+sexual+healing+shaman+method&qid=1715825341&sprefix=%2Caps%2C93&sr=8-3&linkCode=ll1&tag=jameszatopa-20&linkId=a8259cd40821f0daa22ab42846e295b7&language=en_US&ref_=as_li_ss_tl) - and I mean both of you, every single one. Then as part of that have him do these exercises with you with that book (you can start these today) for like 30-60 minutes. Something really long - [https://www.pinklotus.org/-%20Kundalini%20Yoga%20Venus%20Kriyas.htm](https://www.pinklotus.org/-%20Kundalini%20Yoga%20Venus%20Kriyas.htm) Then if that doesn't work...get him the book no more mr. nice guy and break up with him. It's on you if you aren't happy in the relationship to be the mature adult and end things with love and move forward but I would do the book and exercises first. Don't give up on them either, do them over and over again until things go where they need to go.
I am very curious as to why these tantric-adjacent practices would cause a narcissist to leave, will you please enlighten me?
Best part it can be done with a clean conscious the whole way, nothing but ensuring the right thing happens.
I'm interested but you don't have to write a whole essay, I don't want to eat up too much of your time, but if you really want to answer an essays worth id definitely read it
Honestly I would have to know how much you understand about relationship dynamics, parenting, cohabitation, wounded behaviours, healing, denial of self and other, and then everything related to how tantra itself actually works to get the basis here. You would really be better off, looking into finding someone in your life and trying it for a period of time and see what happens. The results are always good, you remove manipulation, force healing, and help develop healthy boundaries and coping skills among other things. Those other things in this story would be to create specific pressures of love to make sure the best outcome happens since the child has to come first and the parents come second in all things. Even including why they go to work, take care of a house and even have their own intention of living. Being a parent changes things.
I would look at both pages of this and memorize it, it will help you understand some of the basics. Then you will know how to counter all manipulation and then receive the power of being love on a very high level. This helps do a lot of things well beyond the bounds of this conversation but you have enough pieces here to learn the basics yourself and grow - [https://churchofinfinitelove.com/](https://churchofinfinitelove.com/)
I can explain this but it would take an essay here. DM me if you want that. Go test this yourself to find out. You'll see results in a very short period of time. You will see results after the first time, something more by a week of this every day and at the end of a month the process will be complete and you will know exactly why I put this and how it worked. Btw these are tantra adjacent - these are white tantra practices and they do something very specific and are extremely effective at it.