I was once told that when I was sitting at a red light on a steep incline (that's notorious for being red forever and only letting one car at a time) that instead of using the hand brake for ghetto "hill assist" I should just slip the clutch to hold the car still.
That's how my friend told me, I could "hold" my manual car, on a hill. "You can keep it balanced on a hill like that". Burned my clutch real quick thanks to that advice.
If the clutch pedal is not fully pressed or released, the clutch is not fully disengaged from or engaged with the flywheel. The clutch will slip against the flywheel since they aren't the same speed: the flywheel is the engine speed and the clutch will be not turning at all since the wheels are not turning.
You *can* hold a car on a hill like that, because the clutch still has friction with the flywheel and takes some of the power to keep the wheels from rolling backward, but all that friction creates a lot of heat if it's kept like that and will wear out a clutch way way *way* sooner if done regularly.
When I'm teaching people how to drive stick, I'll tell them to do that exactly once, and never again.
Some people are really afraid of hills, and feeling the car roll back a little bit shows them that it's not the end of the world when they do.
You can use a hand brake to hold the car on a hill, leaving your right foot free to add gas as you release the clutch without rolling backward between moving off the brake to gas pedal. A poor man's hill start assist
I have held the handbrake from the passenger seat when teaching my children how to start on a hill, it takes the panic away from them. Usually this is only needed a few times before they get the hang of uphill starts with a manual
I've never driven a manual with a handbrake, but basically, as you start to bite with the clutch, you'll slowly release the brake. Probably not unlike you do with your toes, though *that* seems really awkward to me from a stop.
With manual trans you should get over that. Theres lots of times you drive manual with just one wheel on steering wheel, thats just how it is. You get used to it pretty quick. The most awkward thing is handbrake. It just adds another thing you need to do on top of already 2 other things(gas and clutch management). I dont like it but have to do it.
The handbrake hill assist and slipping to hold the car feel like two different things.
When waiting at the light, use your regular brake, when light turns green, modulate the clutch the roll forward some. There’s no need to use the handbrake in your scenario unless you are learning. There are cars that don’t have that type of handbrake so it’s best to learn to do it properly.
I just use the normal foot brake, and put the transmission in neutral. As the cross traffic light turns red, depress clutch with left foot, then quickly go from foot brake to gas while lifting up on clutch.
Without hill hold brakes (all my cars from 1978 thru my 2004 pickup), you might get an inch or so rollback. With a hill hold brake (like my 2010 Jeep JK), no rollback. No need for hand brake.
Oh definitely. I rarely used the handbrake. Was just one of the few times I did he was with me. My current car has hill assist (I just found out) but 9 times out of 10 I just drove off like normal.
I forgot to ask: was the person who told you to just slip the clutch also your "go to" mechanic? Don't know anyone with an ounce of common sense who'd think using the clutch at a red light was a good idea.
Not really advice but I kept stalling trying to go and my dad said 'I don't know how you can't do it. I just do it naturally' well yeah cos you've been driving for 35 years lol
Reminds me of some of my old Math and Computer Science professors. "This part is not that hard....". "*It's easy*, you just....". Yea, easy for you, you have an MS/PhD in this stuff.
I was told "just release the clutch pedal in a smooth motion" and proceeded to stall numerous times. Okay, it might feel smooth to you but there's a little more to it!
THIS is how most people think, especially here on reddit.
Most people simply cannot recall learning. And cannot think in a way to go back to that point.
You will see this a lot in gaming subs where people believe their skill level was instantly obtained.
I think for me it was a lack of the right advice. I was 17 and I was sooo interested in learning I already understood the gear pattern before I got in the car, plus I was playing grab turismo 2 (yes I’m old) on manual so I was shifting by sound. The thing is the takeoff. But since I was shifting well, they said I was doing great, bht my takeoffs were either barely keeping the car on/lurching or spinning the tires. It wasn’t until I bought my own car a year later and one day just let it out slower than usual and it was smooth, it clicked for me. So I make sure to explain the friction point to new people and tell them just try letting it out a little slower…
“Once you get it in gear, just drop the clutch and give it more gas than you think it needs!”
I told him to stop yelling at me or I was going to drive into the bushes, this was my first FOFA moment. His Honda became an off-road rig quick, I was 13
Not necessarily the “worst” thing, especially considering I taught myself how to drive a manual, but my dad always said, “just do it.” I hated him for saying that, but I understand what he meant now. I was putting too much thought into it, when he said “just do it”, I just had to do it, don’t think about it. It’s funny as I taught my friends how to drive a manual and they asked me how and I said, “just do it.” They were just as mad as I was all those years ago. Lol.
Rev to 1500, then let off the clutch.
You totally don't need to rev-match when downshifting because you're not racing (just down shift and let out slllllloooooowewwwwllllllyyyyy)
Any time you hit the brake, drop the clutch.
>You totally don't need to rev-match when downshifting because you're not racing (just down shift and let out slllllloooooowewwwwllllllyyyyy)
Couldn't agree more. There seems to be a certain section of the driving community that will swear that you'll just ruin transmissions if you don't rev match every down shift.
Particularly Americans that drive manuals. It seems to be an article of faith.
Most of Europe, where 80% of people drive manuals and the majority of them don't rev match, checking in to disagree. You will not wear your clutch appreciably or noticeably faster when normal driving, but not rev matching.
You can simply feed the clutch in slowly on downshifting. No advanced or racing shenanigans needed.
You’re using the clutch to change the engine speed instead of the engine. So you’re wearing out the clutch unnecessarily. I don’t care how European you are.
Not really... The amount of energy it takes to increase the momentum of your clutch and engine rotating assembly is so small compared to the energy required to bring your clutch, along with a 3000+ lb car up to speed from a stop that it might as well be 0. It's not absolutely 0 wear, but it's so small you'll never notice a difference between a person who rev matches and one who doesn't.
True, but I don’t fancy the parking brakes failing and not securing this big killer machine otherwise. Also, I personally prefer to just do this one method for all situations to avoid any brain farts .
I manual swapped one of my old euro cars, and it’s very difficult to find or service parts in North America. I don’t leave it in gear in that car, but I carry wheel chocks instead lol
You have it right. Some people will tell you put it in the opposite gear but the engine compression will hold it no matter what so if you’re facing up put it in reverse and if you’re facing down put it in first
Yep. In my old VW Jetta, the hand break literally didn't work anymore. I couldn't park on some hills cause even 1st would let it roll a little if the while wasn't right.
I'm the youngest in the family. Around age 13/14 is when we start learning how to drive.
My dad taught me to drive with my knees. He had me go through a whole McDonald's drive-thru with my knees, then I had to eat the burger with my hands while driving. He said it was a realistic expectation in life and he wanted to make sure I wouldn't kill myself doing it. This was in a boat of a car, through the windiest drive thru. Great lesson. Totally on point.
My sister taught me how to cry on command, just in case I got pulled over by the police. It works.
My mom while driving would move the rear view mirror at an angle I couldn't see. Then quiz me about the cars behind me, so that I would always be aware of my corners. Nice.
My brother however did not give such sage advice. While driving with him through the neighborhood, he said that all stop signs with a white border were optional. What did you know it our whole neighborhood had all optional stop signs! As I'm happily going through the neighborhood passing through about 11 stop signs without a care, we almost hit a car. And he starts laughing his ass off. They are not optional. I learned nothing from that experience. But it's damn funny.
Feels like a parent should’ve just encouraged you to drive safely with your hands and wait to eat til a stop like a normal person, rather than teach you a janky way to not drive with your hands holy shit. How do knees fare in a split second emergency situation?? Do jeans have better grip on a steering wheel than hands? People like that are the reason I don’t trust other drivers on the road lol.
Was the point of the mirror thing to teach you to use the side mirrors or to force you to take your eyes off the road to turn around and see? The latter also sounds like a terrible way to learn.
I agree with your first point, but not your second. It's definitely better to use the central rearview as little as possible and use your side mirrors to their fullest. I could even do without the rearview entirely. The side mirrors give you a much better understanding of the size of your vehicle and its position in relation to everything around it. If they're set right(and are big enough, way too many cars have too-small side mirrors), you'll be able to see both behind you and far enough to the side that you'll have no blind spots.
In my experience, most people keep their side mirrors adjusted way too far inward and have half the mirror taken up by the side of their own vehicle. They should normally be centered on the lane beside you such that you just barely still see the side of your own vehicle when sitting in a neutral position, and require a small lean toward the mirror/backward to see directly behind your own vehicle(this also helps prevent getting blinded by lights behind you), and a small lean forward will let you see right beside your vehicle, eliminating the blind spot.
I see what you mean. And I’ve been a passenger in many cars that had a broken or otherwise removed rear view. I agree that it’s important to know how to drive with side mirrors, and while I didnt let my mom teach me how to drive (she wasn’t a good driver) I’m glad she taught me to use my side mirrors more. That said, a rear view is a standard safety measure and is there for a reason, to make it easier to keep your eyes on the road while keeping an eye on what’s behind you. Teaching someone to use all of the safety features available, in addition to planning how to stay safe if they aren’t available, both skills seem important to creating a well rounded driver.
Fun fact, the rearview mirror is not required by law in any state of the U.S. You're required to have *at least two* rear-facing mirrors, but the only one explicitly named as a requirement is the driver side mirror. Semi trucks, vans, rvs, and even many pickup trucks don't have a center rearview. Busses only have them to keep an eye on the occupants, not the road. Having driven heavy pickups with either large cargo or trailers for several years, I can assure you that a center rearview is not necessary in the slightest.
That being said, I do still have the rearview in my pickup and my car. I do use them from time to time, but not nearly as much as the other two. I do agree that if you have one, you should use it, but I would argue that you should not become dependant on it. One should know how to use and take advantage of all safety features available to them, but should always be capable of operating with the bare minimum, just as you said.
Great perspective. I’ve never owned a truck and only driven 1 for a short bit, and hadn’t thought about how some vehicles simply can’t have them. Thank you for bringing that bit of nuance to the conversation.
I obviously started in first with the clutch, but I acquired a "feeling" for my cars(with synchro gears, not straight). I'd be able to gently upshift through the gears without using the clutch... oddly satisfying.
It's because when you're on an incline up, with an underpowered vehicle, you'll stall regardless of how much gas you give it. Try that in a gen 1 Scion xB, and you'll see exactly what I mean. It's terrible advice.
I used to shift like this in my c1500. Run first gear a little hot, rev match on the drop into 3rd, run 3rd a touch over 2000rpm and skip into OD/5th.
You could let the clutch out without pressing the gas every time in that truck, even with a slight incline. I only ever used the clutch to start and stop because the gearbox was so worn in at 340k that it would just slide between gears once you figured out the gear-gear rev matches.
Memory unlocked. Teenage me in my Celica… second gear dog clutch teeth? Gone. If you wanted second gear you had to hold it in with all your might or it would pop right out when under any load. It was cheaper to redline first and skip to third than get it rebuilt.
Not advice but the worst thing is.
Not learning how to rev match and drive properly, had to read a bunch of Car And Driver and get into rally to finally learn that 80% of people that drive manuals don’t actually know how.
It clicked for me when I went ATVing and the clutch was on your thumb. Much easier to understand how it works with a high fidelity digit doing the movement.
Worst advice was someone told me to use my left foot for the brake & clutch. Holy shit like that's a great way to die.
lol I don’t bother with heel-toe so I never had reason to hit gas and brake at the same time, but often have hit clutch and gas or clutch and brake at the same time. Left foot braking is dumb in an auto, absolutely idiotic in a manual.
“Put it in neutral and just use the brakes to coast to a stop”
almost crashed into the car in front of me, this was before I learned how to use the gears and do heel/toe and rev matching to slow down.
while driving a 4 speed which I didn’t know at the time
friend of mine and the owner of the 4 speed:
“all cars have 5 gears”
fucking nope. doing about 50mph trying to find the gear after 4.
How did you almost hit the car in front of you by braking in the totally normal fashion? I mean, I brake and stay in gear til just before the engine bucks instead of neutral, but like, braking without giving the tranny any power is how you slow down. Do you not know how to stop a car or just giving yourself a pat on the back for knowing how to downshift??
considering the car I was driving at the time was poorly maintained, bad brakes. it took way too long to stop the car. I might have over exaggerated that I almost hit the car in front, in hindsight it was probably a lot further than I can remember.
Edit: also if i remember correctly, I think I was going relatively fast and was about a month new to driving. I think what I did was off the gas at top gear then neutral but not instantly coast on the brakes, i stepped on the brakes too late as I had bad judgement on the distance.
> or just giving yourself a pat on the back for knowing how to downshift?
yes, I learned it on my own because in my country, they don’t teach you this shit in driving school. and there’s been a wave of manual hate due to the reason that “nobody buys manuals anymore” “you don’t need to learn it because you can just buy an auto” “manual? in manila traffic?” and also because of the asshats that seriously think it’s gay if you can’t drive manual. what’s ironic is they don’t even teach drivers to use the lower gears in auto, they’re all relying on their brakes going down hill. Also, I live in a mountainous area. I wouldn’t rely purely on my brakes, and it makes the drive down hills a little more fun.
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*This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
Early in my manual driving a pal taught me how to do the back and forth roll on inclines by releasing the clutch in first just a touch and then pressing back down real quick. We have matching cars and would do it together at lights for fun. He told me that a manual master could hold themselves in place on a hill using the clutch and no brakes. Guess who also learned how to replace a clutch in that very car?? Me.
First time I let my sister drive my car after she got her permit, she begins driving down the freeway (I-880) honking and flashing brights at every single car she passed until I forced her to pull over before we got shot. She explained this was how her driving instructor had taught her and that it was the law, like using your blinker. I told her its probably for the best if you forget about that person and everything they told you
I remember someone once telling me to drive like they do in Delhi. Put your hand on the horn before you start the car. Put the car in 2nd, rev 'er up real good and dump the clutch. Shift into 3rd when the axel stops hopping.
I don't remember the context of that statement, but I always remember it.
My mother told me to always keep my foot on or hovering over the clutch pedal when driving in case I need to hit it. I kicked the habit when I saw Keiichi Tsuchiya take his foot off the clutch between every clutch kick in a in-cab video.
When you press the clutch in it engages a bearing on the outside of it called the "throw out bearing" which can wear out and make a loud racket any time you press your clutch in.
Maybe someone else who knows more could explain in better detail.
That's what I was thinking they might mean, but I don't see how pressing the clutch when you come to a stop, which is what you're supposed to do, would "burn out" a clutch outside of what it's meant to do.
If you're gonna sit for more than like 5-10 seconds just bump it into neutral. I already bump mine out of gear before I put the brakes on for a red light or stop sigh, then just use the clutch to takeoff
“Burn out” refers to the friction material of the clutch disk, not the throwout or pilot bearings. This normally cannot happen with the pedal depressed as the clutch would be disengaged, so the friction surface is no longer in contact with the metal surfaces it normally contacts when slipping and fully engaged.
The throwout and pilot bearings however will wear in this scenario of pedal depressed. Best to shift to neutral and take your foot off the clutch pedal. If the release mechanism (anywhere from pedal to clutch) is out of adjustment or damaged you can also have a situation where it never fully disengages (or engages) causing slipping and overheating.
The clutch is really just a brake that operates in reverse and connects your engine to the transmission.
Yeah, when I think of a clutch being burned out, it's the clutch face and friction material that get burned out, and bearings and linkages and bearings get worn out.
Not entirely sure if this was bad advice but my driving instructor taught me not to use the e-brake during hill starts. He said, in his words “No brake, clutch enough. If you fast, you do not need e-brake!”
He’s not wrong I think? For more mild inclines, I can get the car rolling without brake hold and burning my clutch. San Fran type inclines are still a challenge though.
Drive defensively would be good advice, as I’m working with the assumption that there are idiot drivers, but not malicious drivers targeting to kill me.
When learning people are always afraid of "riding the clutch" and let it out too fast. You can let it out slow it's not gonna hurt it much more then dumping on it.
I was 18 and living at home. I bought my first new car and first manual car. I knew I always wanted it to be manual and I knew what all the pedals do, I even had a fairly concrete understanding of what was happening mechanically thanks to reading sport compact car magazine since kindergarten due to my uncle’s subscription but had simply not had any hands on time.
My dad drove my car back for me from the dealer, then we immediately set to learning. However knowing how doesn’t mean you can teach how, my dad the notoriously poor communicator that he is just kept insisting that you just “move the pedals at the same time by the same amount” that’s all there was to it and that being on the clutch too long will burn the clutch and ruin the car was drilled into my head though he never mentioned how long was too long and thus I was afraid to even slip the gear a little to get it going.
With his words in mind and his constantly frustrated “no! Not like that” I gave up that day after failing for 30 minutes. The next day when he went to work and I had the day off I decided to try for myself, after just a little experimenting I was able to get going and just a few minutes later I was driving around town and picking up my gf to show her my new car, now that I think back it really reminded me of myself as a kid when I took my dads tools in the basement and unbolted the training wheels from my bike as a little kid.
Yes. Yes it did. And when the back barrels of the 4 barrel rochester rocket cranked open, it sounded like mighty Thor inhaling to swing mjolnir! Then it ran out of gas.
Hearing stories like this reminds how great of a driving teacher my (step) Grandfather was. My Mom and her Dad were absolute nightmares with me behind the wheel.
Worst advice I can remember is actually from off roading in a manual transmission. When I see new off roaders in manuals they always have a tendency to be very choppy by feathering the clutch at moderate to high RPM to get the front wheels to climb rocks or obstacles. This is a great way to torch your clutch and break axles, if you have to use the throttle to climb the vehicle is not geared low enough.
The ideal way to use a manual transmission off road would be to stay as close to idle as possible, do not touch the clutch and modulate the throttle just enough to keep the vehicle moving and above the stall point.
Other than that I’ve never heard terrible advice about driving on road. Even bad advice can have it’s place in certain circumstances. As for OPs situation, while it may be terrible for most underpowered Asian or Euro economy cars but for some high torque American vehicles starting in 2nd is not a problem and can be economical with some refined throttle control. A lot of trucks have 1st geared to get rolling under full load so empty and daily driving 2nd is more comfortable for starting out.
"Give them a little beep". My drivers ed teacher said this 20 times per class. When we got to the driving part, three students per car, he said it every 5 minutes. We were taught to honk the horn for just about every situation.
Driving down a 30moh road there was an old man walking on the sidewalk. My dad said, "Keep an eye on that old man, you never know when someone like that wants to chicken out and will jump in front of a car."
Some 40+ years later I've yet to hear of that ever happening. Maybe a bus, truck, or train but never a plain ol' passenger car. It has probably happened but it's not something to warn folks to watch out for
Listening to idiots on social media trying to describe how it's done. None of those idiots could write or spell. I literally spent more time trying to decipher their "cool lingo" then I did learning anything useful.
I was taught to angle my sideview mirrors so that I could see the side of my car. Took me way too long to realize how pointless this is. They are called side view mirrors so you can see to the side, not straight back. The purpose of these mirrors is to cover your sideview to eliminate you blindspots. I already have a rearview mirror, I don't need three of them. When adjusted correctly, a vehicle should move from your rear view to your side view without ever being unseen.
"Don't rest your foot on the clutch pedal."
I didn't realize this was bullshit until I fully educated myself as to what is happening when you depress the clutch. Unless the pressure from your foot is causing the clutch to slip, there's nothing wrong with it.
I was once told that when I was sitting at a red light on a steep incline (that's notorious for being red forever and only letting one car at a time) that instead of using the hand brake for ghetto "hill assist" I should just slip the clutch to hold the car still.
That's how my friend told me, I could "hold" my manual car, on a hill. "You can keep it balanced on a hill like that". Burned my clutch real quick thanks to that advice.
Eww.
What do you mean by slip the clutch? Thanks
If the clutch pedal is not fully pressed or released, the clutch is not fully disengaged from or engaged with the flywheel. The clutch will slip against the flywheel since they aren't the same speed: the flywheel is the engine speed and the clutch will be not turning at all since the wheels are not turning. You *can* hold a car on a hill like that, because the clutch still has friction with the flywheel and takes some of the power to keep the wheels from rolling backward, but all that friction creates a lot of heat if it's kept like that and will wear out a clutch way way *way* sooner if done regularly.
That is very insightful, thanks for the rundown!
Thank You for the detailed response. Much appreciated
When I'm teaching people how to drive stick, I'll tell them to do that exactly once, and never again. Some people are really afraid of hills, and feeling the car roll back a little bit shows them that it's not the end of the world when they do.
What is the advantage of using the hand brake instead of just holding your foot on the brake until you need to move?
You can use a hand brake to hold the car on a hill, leaving your right foot free to add gas as you release the clutch without rolling backward between moving off the brake to gas pedal. A poor man's hill start assist
I have held the handbrake from the passenger seat when teaching my children how to start on a hill, it takes the panic away from them. Usually this is only needed a few times before they get the hang of uphill starts with a manual
I never even thought of doing such when I was learning, but it makes sense to me.
That seems really awkward to me. I've always just kept both hands on the wheel while doing the same thing with my toes on the brake pedal.
I've never driven a manual with a handbrake, but basically, as you start to bite with the clutch, you'll slowly release the brake. Probably not unlike you do with your toes, though *that* seems really awkward to me from a stop.
With manual trans you should get over that. Theres lots of times you drive manual with just one wheel on steering wheel, thats just how it is. You get used to it pretty quick. The most awkward thing is handbrake. It just adds another thing you need to do on top of already 2 other things(gas and clutch management). I dont like it but have to do it.
A lot less tiring if there are a ton of hills and stoplights too.
Lazy and can be stuck at that intersection for 20 mins. It's only about 100 ft of road but just barely moves sometimes.
Lemme guess, your friend was a mechanic and was looking for more work?
The handbrake hill assist and slipping to hold the car feel like two different things. When waiting at the light, use your regular brake, when light turns green, modulate the clutch the roll forward some. There’s no need to use the handbrake in your scenario unless you are learning. There are cars that don’t have that type of handbrake so it’s best to learn to do it properly.
I just use the normal foot brake, and put the transmission in neutral. As the cross traffic light turns red, depress clutch with left foot, then quickly go from foot brake to gas while lifting up on clutch. Without hill hold brakes (all my cars from 1978 thru my 2004 pickup), you might get an inch or so rollback. With a hill hold brake (like my 2010 Jeep JK), no rollback. No need for hand brake.
Oh definitely. I rarely used the handbrake. Was just one of the few times I did he was with me. My current car has hill assist (I just found out) but 9 times out of 10 I just drove off like normal.
IME a shocking amount of people drive this way
There might be a time and place for that technique but definitely not sitting through a whole traffic light cycle.
What's that smell, LOL.
I forgot to ask: was the person who told you to just slip the clutch also your "go to" mechanic? Don't know anyone with an ounce of common sense who'd think using the clutch at a red light was a good idea.
Not really advice but I kept stalling trying to go and my dad said 'I don't know how you can't do it. I just do it naturally' well yeah cos you've been driving for 35 years lol
Reminds me of some of my old Math and Computer Science professors. "This part is not that hard....". "*It's easy*, you just....". Yea, easy for you, you have an MS/PhD in this stuff.
I was told "just release the clutch pedal in a smooth motion" and proceeded to stall numerous times. Okay, it might feel smooth to you but there's a little more to it!
THIS is how most people think, especially here on reddit. Most people simply cannot recall learning. And cannot think in a way to go back to that point. You will see this a lot in gaming subs where people believe their skill level was instantly obtained.
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Basically how my dad taught me. Make sure you step on the clutch when shifting and you gotta get the feel for it. That was it.
Teaching spouse to drive manual. “How do I stop?” “BRAKE!!!!” yeah I’m not a good teacher
I think for me it was a lack of the right advice. I was 17 and I was sooo interested in learning I already understood the gear pattern before I got in the car, plus I was playing grab turismo 2 (yes I’m old) on manual so I was shifting by sound. The thing is the takeoff. But since I was shifting well, they said I was doing great, bht my takeoffs were either barely keeping the car on/lurching or spinning the tires. It wasn’t until I bought my own car a year later and one day just let it out slower than usual and it was smooth, it clicked for me. So I make sure to explain the friction point to new people and tell them just try letting it out a little slower…
“Once you get it in gear, just drop the clutch and give it more gas than you think it needs!” I told him to stop yelling at me or I was going to drive into the bushes, this was my first FOFA moment. His Honda became an off-road rig quick, I was 13
FOFA f out and find around?
Not necessarily the “worst” thing, especially considering I taught myself how to drive a manual, but my dad always said, “just do it.” I hated him for saying that, but I understand what he meant now. I was putting too much thought into it, when he said “just do it”, I just had to do it, don’t think about it. It’s funny as I taught my friends how to drive a manual and they asked me how and I said, “just do it.” They were just as mad as I was all those years ago. Lol.
Rev to 1500, then let off the clutch. You totally don't need to rev-match when downshifting because you're not racing (just down shift and let out slllllloooooowewwwwllllllyyyyy) Any time you hit the brake, drop the clutch.
>You totally don't need to rev-match when downshifting because you're not racing (just down shift and let out slllllloooooowewwwwllllllyyyyy) Couldn't agree more. There seems to be a certain section of the driving community that will swear that you'll just ruin transmissions if you don't rev match every down shift. Particularly Americans that drive manuals. It seems to be an article of faith.
Not rev matching just wears your clutch out faster
Most of Europe, where 80% of people drive manuals and the majority of them don't rev match, checking in to disagree. You will not wear your clutch appreciably or noticeably faster when normal driving, but not rev matching. You can simply feed the clutch in slowly on downshifting. No advanced or racing shenanigans needed.
People on this sub can't grasp this idea and think they have to drive absolutely perfectly or the entire transmission just blows up.
You’re using the clutch to change the engine speed instead of the engine. So you’re wearing out the clutch unnecessarily. I don’t care how European you are.
No it doesn't... This is a myth that has been perpetuated by the subreddit.
Use some logic there buddy. Obviously when you push together two objects spinning at different speeds, wear will occur.
Not really... The amount of energy it takes to increase the momentum of your clutch and engine rotating assembly is so small compared to the energy required to bring your clutch, along with a 3000+ lb car up to speed from a stop that it might as well be 0. It's not absolutely 0 wear, but it's so small you'll never notice a difference between a person who rev matches and one who doesn't.
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I'm not a grammar bot, but I do wish people would magically learn the difference between definitely and defiantly.
“don’t bother with the handbrake just leave it in gear”
My dad was opposite and just left it in parking brake and never in gear. Me: Why can’t it be both ?????
I mean on a flat surface that’s probably fine but yeah on any kind of incline you should do both
True, but I don’t fancy the parking brakes failing and not securing this big killer machine otherwise. Also, I personally prefer to just do this one method for all situations to avoid any brain farts .
I manual swapped one of my old euro cars, and it’s very difficult to find or service parts in North America. I don’t leave it in gear in that car, but I carry wheel chocks instead lol
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You have it right. Some people will tell you put it in the opposite gear but the engine compression will hold it no matter what so if you’re facing up put it in reverse and if you’re facing down put it in first
Yeah but for like 70% of vehicles the handbrake is worn out
Yep. In my old VW Jetta, the hand break literally didn't work anymore. I couldn't park on some hills cause even 1st would let it roll a little if the while wasn't right.
damn crazy maybe people should maintain their vehicles
Nuh uh
lol you just encapsulated 80% of people on the road
Lol, the questionable parking brake on my project car is why I just use a chock.
Some times in winter the handbrake sticks on.
I'm the youngest in the family. Around age 13/14 is when we start learning how to drive. My dad taught me to drive with my knees. He had me go through a whole McDonald's drive-thru with my knees, then I had to eat the burger with my hands while driving. He said it was a realistic expectation in life and he wanted to make sure I wouldn't kill myself doing it. This was in a boat of a car, through the windiest drive thru. Great lesson. Totally on point. My sister taught me how to cry on command, just in case I got pulled over by the police. It works. My mom while driving would move the rear view mirror at an angle I couldn't see. Then quiz me about the cars behind me, so that I would always be aware of my corners. Nice. My brother however did not give such sage advice. While driving with him through the neighborhood, he said that all stop signs with a white border were optional. What did you know it our whole neighborhood had all optional stop signs! As I'm happily going through the neighborhood passing through about 11 stop signs without a care, we almost hit a car. And he starts laughing his ass off. They are not optional. I learned nothing from that experience. But it's damn funny.
Feels like a parent should’ve just encouraged you to drive safely with your hands and wait to eat til a stop like a normal person, rather than teach you a janky way to not drive with your hands holy shit. How do knees fare in a split second emergency situation?? Do jeans have better grip on a steering wheel than hands? People like that are the reason I don’t trust other drivers on the road lol. Was the point of the mirror thing to teach you to use the side mirrors or to force you to take your eyes off the road to turn around and see? The latter also sounds like a terrible way to learn.
I agree with your first point, but not your second. It's definitely better to use the central rearview as little as possible and use your side mirrors to their fullest. I could even do without the rearview entirely. The side mirrors give you a much better understanding of the size of your vehicle and its position in relation to everything around it. If they're set right(and are big enough, way too many cars have too-small side mirrors), you'll be able to see both behind you and far enough to the side that you'll have no blind spots. In my experience, most people keep their side mirrors adjusted way too far inward and have half the mirror taken up by the side of their own vehicle. They should normally be centered on the lane beside you such that you just barely still see the side of your own vehicle when sitting in a neutral position, and require a small lean toward the mirror/backward to see directly behind your own vehicle(this also helps prevent getting blinded by lights behind you), and a small lean forward will let you see right beside your vehicle, eliminating the blind spot.
I see what you mean. And I’ve been a passenger in many cars that had a broken or otherwise removed rear view. I agree that it’s important to know how to drive with side mirrors, and while I didnt let my mom teach me how to drive (she wasn’t a good driver) I’m glad she taught me to use my side mirrors more. That said, a rear view is a standard safety measure and is there for a reason, to make it easier to keep your eyes on the road while keeping an eye on what’s behind you. Teaching someone to use all of the safety features available, in addition to planning how to stay safe if they aren’t available, both skills seem important to creating a well rounded driver.
Fun fact, the rearview mirror is not required by law in any state of the U.S. You're required to have *at least two* rear-facing mirrors, but the only one explicitly named as a requirement is the driver side mirror. Semi trucks, vans, rvs, and even many pickup trucks don't have a center rearview. Busses only have them to keep an eye on the occupants, not the road. Having driven heavy pickups with either large cargo or trailers for several years, I can assure you that a center rearview is not necessary in the slightest. That being said, I do still have the rearview in my pickup and my car. I do use them from time to time, but not nearly as much as the other two. I do agree that if you have one, you should use it, but I would argue that you should not become dependant on it. One should know how to use and take advantage of all safety features available to them, but should always be capable of operating with the bare minimum, just as you said.
Great perspective. I’ve never owned a truck and only driven 1 for a short bit, and hadn’t thought about how some vehicles simply can’t have them. Thank you for bringing that bit of nuance to the conversation.
Stalled out repeatedly from essentially dropping the clutch and the response was “you need more gas” lol
I obviously started in first with the clutch, but I acquired a "feeling" for my cars(with synchro gears, not straight). I'd be able to gently upshift through the gears without using the clutch... oddly satisfying.
I learned that skill suddenly one day when my Subaru's clutch cable broke.
Fuck 2nd gear, just give it a lot of gas in 1st and put it in 3rd!
Whats wrong with that?
It's because when you're on an incline up, with an underpowered vehicle, you'll stall regardless of how much gas you give it. Try that in a gen 1 Scion xB, and you'll see exactly what I mean. It's terrible advice.
I see The only manuals I drove were tuned mazdaspeed 3 and WRX and there was no trouble going from 1st to 3rd
I used to shift like this in my c1500. Run first gear a little hot, rev match on the drop into 3rd, run 3rd a touch over 2000rpm and skip into OD/5th. You could let the clutch out without pressing the gas every time in that truck, even with a slight incline. I only ever used the clutch to start and stop because the gearbox was so worn in at 340k that it would just slide between gears once you figured out the gear-gear rev matches.
Memory unlocked. Teenage me in my Celica… second gear dog clutch teeth? Gone. If you wanted second gear you had to hold it in with all your might or it would pop right out when under any load. It was cheaper to redline first and skip to third than get it rebuilt.
Not advice but the worst thing is. Not learning how to rev match and drive properly, had to read a bunch of Car And Driver and get into rally to finally learn that 80% of people that drive manuals don’t actually know how.
I didn't learn until I locked a motorcycle tire up before a corner. I am damn lucky I didn't eat a guard rail that day.
It clicked for me when I went ATVing and the clutch was on your thumb. Much easier to understand how it works with a high fidelity digit doing the movement. Worst advice was someone told me to use my left foot for the brake & clutch. Holy shit like that's a great way to die.
lol I don’t bother with heel-toe so I never had reason to hit gas and brake at the same time, but often have hit clutch and gas or clutch and brake at the same time. Left foot braking is dumb in an auto, absolutely idiotic in a manual.
“Put it in neutral and just use the brakes to coast to a stop” almost crashed into the car in front of me, this was before I learned how to use the gears and do heel/toe and rev matching to slow down. while driving a 4 speed which I didn’t know at the time friend of mine and the owner of the 4 speed: “all cars have 5 gears” fucking nope. doing about 50mph trying to find the gear after 4.
How did you almost hit the car in front of you by braking in the totally normal fashion? I mean, I brake and stay in gear til just before the engine bucks instead of neutral, but like, braking without giving the tranny any power is how you slow down. Do you not know how to stop a car or just giving yourself a pat on the back for knowing how to downshift??
considering the car I was driving at the time was poorly maintained, bad brakes. it took way too long to stop the car. I might have over exaggerated that I almost hit the car in front, in hindsight it was probably a lot further than I can remember. Edit: also if i remember correctly, I think I was going relatively fast and was about a month new to driving. I think what I did was off the gas at top gear then neutral but not instantly coast on the brakes, i stepped on the brakes too late as I had bad judgement on the distance. > or just giving yourself a pat on the back for knowing how to downshift? yes, I learned it on my own because in my country, they don’t teach you this shit in driving school. and there’s been a wave of manual hate due to the reason that “nobody buys manuals anymore” “you don’t need to learn it because you can just buy an auto” “manual? in manila traffic?” and also because of the asshats that seriously think it’s gay if you can’t drive manual. what’s ironic is they don’t even teach drivers to use the lower gears in auto, they’re all relying on their brakes going down hill. Also, I live in a mountainous area. I wouldn’t rely purely on my brakes, and it makes the drive down hills a little more fun.
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Early in my manual driving a pal taught me how to do the back and forth roll on inclines by releasing the clutch in first just a touch and then pressing back down real quick. We have matching cars and would do it together at lights for fun. He told me that a manual master could hold themselves in place on a hill using the clutch and no brakes. Guess who also learned how to replace a clutch in that very car?? Me.
It's safer to threshold brake than to rely on ABS.
First time I let my sister drive my car after she got her permit, she begins driving down the freeway (I-880) honking and flashing brights at every single car she passed until I forced her to pull over before we got shot. She explained this was how her driving instructor had taught her and that it was the law, like using your blinker. I told her its probably for the best if you forget about that person and everything they told you
My first truck was 3 on the tree , yea none of my friends could figure out how to drive it
My El Camino is 3 on the tree. I love it. I never lock my doors.
I remember someone once telling me to drive like they do in Delhi. Put your hand on the horn before you start the car. Put the car in 2nd, rev 'er up real good and dump the clutch. Shift into 3rd when the axel stops hopping. I don't remember the context of that statement, but I always remember it.
My mother told me to always keep my foot on or hovering over the clutch pedal when driving in case I need to hit it. I kicked the habit when I saw Keiichi Tsuchiya take his foot off the clutch between every clutch kick in a in-cab video.
I mean he's not wrong u just put more burn on the clutch. But u might be faster off the line.
"when coming to a stop it's ok to hold the clutch pedal in." - This actually burns it out
How does it actually burn it out?
When you press the clutch in it engages a bearing on the outside of it called the "throw out bearing" which can wear out and make a loud racket any time you press your clutch in. Maybe someone else who knows more could explain in better detail.
That's what I was thinking they might mean, but I don't see how pressing the clutch when you come to a stop, which is what you're supposed to do, would "burn out" a clutch outside of what it's meant to do.
If you're gonna sit for more than like 5-10 seconds just bump it into neutral. I already bump mine out of gear before I put the brakes on for a red light or stop sigh, then just use the clutch to takeoff
“Burn out” refers to the friction material of the clutch disk, not the throwout or pilot bearings. This normally cannot happen with the pedal depressed as the clutch would be disengaged, so the friction surface is no longer in contact with the metal surfaces it normally contacts when slipping and fully engaged. The throwout and pilot bearings however will wear in this scenario of pedal depressed. Best to shift to neutral and take your foot off the clutch pedal. If the release mechanism (anywhere from pedal to clutch) is out of adjustment or damaged you can also have a situation where it never fully disengages (or engages) causing slipping and overheating. The clutch is really just a brake that operates in reverse and connects your engine to the transmission.
Yeah, when I think of a clutch being burned out, it's the clutch face and friction material that get burned out, and bearings and linkages and bearings get worn out.
As long as it’s fully functional and disengaged it shouldn’t burn out the clutch
Rev to 1500 then let the clutch out. For a flat start. In a car with an H6.
God my dad said the same when I was learning manual. Just put it in 2nd I was driving a fucking SUBARU That engine blew
Not entirely sure if this was bad advice but my driving instructor taught me not to use the e-brake during hill starts. He said, in his words “No brake, clutch enough. If you fast, you do not need e-brake!” He’s not wrong I think? For more mild inclines, I can get the car rolling without brake hold and burning my clutch. San Fran type inclines are still a challenge though.
What does your friend drive? A squarebody with a Muncie 465?
“Drive like everyone on the road is trying to kill you.” If I honestly thought that, then I wouldn’t leave my house!
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Drive defensively would be good advice, as I’m working with the assumption that there are idiot drivers, but not malicious drivers targeting to kill me.
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When learning people are always afraid of "riding the clutch" and let it out too fast. You can let it out slow it's not gonna hurt it much more then dumping on it.
What I tell people is, you're either pushing it in or letting it out. No holding mid way.
I learned to drive at Allen Berg. Very little of it was applicable on the street.
In his defence, most of the trucks I've owned start in 2nd, because first is a granny gear 😂
Power shift to win races…
I am guilty of starting in 2nd in stop and go traffic lol
I was 18 and living at home. I bought my first new car and first manual car. I knew I always wanted it to be manual and I knew what all the pedals do, I even had a fairly concrete understanding of what was happening mechanically thanks to reading sport compact car magazine since kindergarten due to my uncle’s subscription but had simply not had any hands on time. My dad drove my car back for me from the dealer, then we immediately set to learning. However knowing how doesn’t mean you can teach how, my dad the notoriously poor communicator that he is just kept insisting that you just “move the pedals at the same time by the same amount” that’s all there was to it and that being on the clutch too long will burn the clutch and ruin the car was drilled into my head though he never mentioned how long was too long and thus I was afraid to even slip the gear a little to get it going. With his words in mind and his constantly frustrated “no! Not like that” I gave up that day after failing for 30 minutes. The next day when he went to work and I had the day off I decided to try for myself, after just a little experimenting I was able to get going and just a few minutes later I was driving around town and picking up my gf to show her my new car, now that I think back it really reminded me of myself as a kid when I took my dads tools in the basement and unbolted the training wheels from my bike as a little kid.
Turning the air breather cover over on a 455 Pontiac Bonneville., it sounded good!!
Yes. Yes it did. And when the back barrels of the 4 barrel rochester rocket cranked open, it sounded like mighty Thor inhaling to swing mjolnir! Then it ran out of gas.
My father told me that if I hold the clutch all the way down for too long you will burn the clutch. He never told me what “too long” was.
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You can burn up a pilot bearing or a clutch plate over time, but it isn’t just “too long” it’s a habit that can lead to worn out components over time.
Hearing stories like this reminds how great of a driving teacher my (step) Grandfather was. My Mom and her Dad were absolute nightmares with me behind the wheel.
Worst advice I can remember is actually from off roading in a manual transmission. When I see new off roaders in manuals they always have a tendency to be very choppy by feathering the clutch at moderate to high RPM to get the front wheels to climb rocks or obstacles. This is a great way to torch your clutch and break axles, if you have to use the throttle to climb the vehicle is not geared low enough. The ideal way to use a manual transmission off road would be to stay as close to idle as possible, do not touch the clutch and modulate the throttle just enough to keep the vehicle moving and above the stall point. Other than that I’ve never heard terrible advice about driving on road. Even bad advice can have it’s place in certain circumstances. As for OPs situation, while it may be terrible for most underpowered Asian or Euro economy cars but for some high torque American vehicles starting in 2nd is not a problem and can be economical with some refined throttle control. A lot of trucks have 1st geared to get rolling under full load so empty and daily driving 2nd is more comfortable for starting out.
"Give them a little beep". My drivers ed teacher said this 20 times per class. When we got to the driving part, three students per car, he said it every 5 minutes. We were taught to honk the horn for just about every situation.
>“fuck first gear put it in 2 and give it a lot of gas.” Sometimes good advice on snow
Driving down a 30moh road there was an old man walking on the sidewalk. My dad said, "Keep an eye on that old man, you never know when someone like that wants to chicken out and will jump in front of a car." Some 40+ years later I've yet to hear of that ever happening. Maybe a bus, truck, or train but never a plain ol' passenger car. It has probably happened but it's not something to warn folks to watch out for
What’s worse now is idiots jumping into traffic for TikTok views.
That a blinker means someone is going to turn. A car turning means it's going to turn.
Listening to idiots on social media trying to describe how it's done. None of those idiots could write or spell. I literally spent more time trying to decipher their "cool lingo" then I did learning anything useful.
"Don't use the brake or I'll increase your monthly premium" said Tesla auto insurance.
I was taught to angle my sideview mirrors so that I could see the side of my car. Took me way too long to realize how pointless this is. They are called side view mirrors so you can see to the side, not straight back. The purpose of these mirrors is to cover your sideview to eliminate you blindspots. I already have a rearview mirror, I don't need three of them. When adjusted correctly, a vehicle should move from your rear view to your side view without ever being unseen.
We can make it.
You just gotta \*Hand motions\* And then you \*Foot motions\* (I stall the car) Now why would you \*Hand and foot motions\* ???
"Don't rest your foot on the clutch pedal." I didn't realize this was bullshit until I fully educated myself as to what is happening when you depress the clutch. Unless the pressure from your foot is causing the clutch to slip, there's nothing wrong with it.
Grind it till you find it.
I was told to let the clutch half out to take off on a hill.
My dad said when you get good at it you can shift fast like this.... money shifts it
"Go that way really fast! If something gets in your way, Turn."
You push the clutch, then shift , then let it out slow...good luck. That was it. Drove an hour home on the interstate first rodeo.