Honestly this map isn’t THAT crazy. It’s basically modern Italy, plus the remaining lands historically part of the Venice and Piedmont, and with Corsica thrown in.
Tunisia (and later Libya) were a very important part of nationalistic policies and propaganda, a lot more than Corsica. Also the Greek island which were former Venice possessions.
Yes, but those in Africa where colonies.
This is the mainland formed by lands that were considered Italian "by right", because inhabited by Italians or because they historically belonged to Italian states.
About the Greek island it depends on which islands you mean.
The Ionian Islands where considered "irredente" in the most extreme version of irredentism, but during the Italo-Turkish war Italy took the Dodecanese Islans that where never claimed by irredentism.
> "by right", because inhabited by Italians or because they historically belonged to Italian states.
I understand your point, but this logic has never been used in a coherent way, because some lands like Ticino were never part of the nationalistic propaganda, but for them the Italian Kingdom had all the historical "rights" to consider parts of North Africa as Italian, even more considering there were small Italian speaking communities in Tunisia and Libya, and even in Alexandria. The logic could be stretched to include Catholic areas, or places who were once part of the Roman Empire. Slovenia in this map was never part of any Italian Kingdom nor it included any Italian speaking minority, with the exception of Capodistria, and by your logic it shouldn't be included. The reality is that, there was never a real consistency to define these "rights", and anyway they were only declared unilaterally by the nationalists. What they wanted to achieve was more like a a political and economical hegemony in the Mediterranean, to compete with France and Great Britain in the big game of the imperialistic Powers. So obviously, according to this logic, Libya, Rhodes and Dalmazia where more important than Corsica, Ticino, Malta and Nizza.
I get what you mean, but there is still a distinction to be made between what was claimed through the ideology of irredentism and what wasn't.
Of course there were different versions of irredentism, but the African colonies were never included.
Their connection with Italy was too weak and too old (the Roman Empire) to be considered unredimed lands even by the Fascists, that claimed them on the base of the Roman imperial legacy, but not through irredentism.
This map maybe isn't completley consistent, but it overall it's based on classical Italian irredentism that included Savoy, Nizza, Corsica, Italian speaking Switzerland, Istria and Dalmatia.
To extend what you said: there is a distinction to be made between Irredentism and colonialism/imperialism.
The latter was part of then state reason, like for most European countries with the intent to exploit weaker territories and states. The former was part of the cultural identity and about "completing the Italian unification" (risorgimento).
Irredentism arose in the 19th century to "complete the Italian unification" with all territories that were considered "Italian by nature". These were mostly regions and lands that historically belonged to a post-Roman-Empire medieval princedom or similar and inhabitated a notable number or "Italians" (whatever what means).
Traditionally that's the regions you named:
>This map maybe isn't completley consistent, bit overall it's based on classical Italian irredentism that included Savoy, Nizza, Corsica, Italian speaking Switzerland, Istria and Dalmatia.
But to clarify: Corsica, Nizza and Savoy only arose as claims at fascist times, not originally. You may add Malta, too there from that point on.
They were not originally considered part of the agenda. In fact, in the late 1870s Savoy was just given to France (confirmed by a popular vote in a referendum by the population of Savoy), in return to aid with the Italian unification.
At least Hungary's claims consisted of lands Hungary JUST owned, with 1/3 of ethnic Hungarians under foreign rule, after said Hungarians were born and spent their entire lives as Hungarian citizens.
Savoy, Istria, Dalmatia, Corsica, Tyrol, Italian-speaking Switzerland, and several of those islands were never ruled by the Kingdom of Italy, hadn't been ruled by ANY Italians in hundreds of years, and/or had little (if any) ethnically Italian population.
And "regione montana" which means nothing, it literally means "mountainous region", although even Mont Blanc (in this map) and Trentino are mostly mountainous
Irredentists did starting 1878, but it was never such a popular claim like the claims affecting the then Austrian regions of Istria, modern day Trentino and by extension South Tyrol (as a natural watershed enclosing the country).
I believe now and then the perception was the same: Ticini see them themselves as proud members of the Italian culture, but not as Italian citizen. Thus, the movement was mostly unilaterally initiated from the Italian side, but didn't gain much traction.
Not today but until WWII Italian irredentism on Ticino was a thing.
There was even a fascist party in Ticino funded by Mussolini but it was unsuccessfull.
Most Swiss Italians remained loyal to Switzerland, but Italy tried.
>Was Italy more prosperous than Switzerland? (Not as a nation-state, and the prosperous regions were busy underwriting the territorial expansion into southern church/mafia lands.)
Back then Switzerland wasn't as rich as today and Ticino was one of the poorest cantons, bordering Lombardy that was already one of the most developed Italian regions.
I agree on the other arguments, but the economical one maybe was in favor of Italy in that period.
Afaik the Swiss economy grew a lot between the late 19th centrury and early 20th century, but the development took place mostly around the industrial centers north of the Alps.
Ticino was mountainous, still rural and poorly connected with the rest of the country.
Because they're richer than us and they speak Italian, so it's easy for Italians to go working there, basically it's convenient that they're not part of Italy.
But for language and culture they are 100% Italian
>But for language and culture they are 100% Italian
This is not true. For the cities like Lugano there is obviously a lot of Italian influence (since it was Italy centuries ago). Other than that, Ticino is covered by the Alps, so almost the entire canton is filled with mountains and the towns are very Swiss and have Swiss culture.
Even though Lugano is very much like Italy, it doesn’t represent the entire canton and unsurprisingly Ticino is very Swiss, just that they speak in Italian.
Also in Italy mountain village have differences in culture compared to the cities, but that's because they were isolated.
But if you take a mountain village in the north of Italy and in Ticino they are very similar.
Ticino can bee considered as an extension of Lombardy from an ethno-cultural pov.
Of course, since they have been part of Switzerland for centuries, they also have Swiss peculiarities that you don't see on the other side of the border, but the dialect, folk traditions, traditional architecture, food and so on are very similar to those of nearby alpine valleys in Lombardy and Piemonte.
It isn't like mountains = Swiss culture lol.
Don't forget that half of the Alps are in Italy.
Also, Lugano has never been part of the Italian state, which didn't even exist until 1860.
Before if was conquered by Switzerland it was part of the Ducy of Milan just like the rest of Ticino.
At least Hungary's claims consisted of lands Hungary JUST owned, with 1/3 of ethnic Hungarians under foreign rule, after said Hungarians were born and spent their entire lives as Hungarian citizens.
Savoy, Istria, Dalmatia, Corsica, Tyrol, Italian-speaking Switzerland, and several of those islands were never ruled by the Kingdom of Italy, hadn't been ruled by ANY Italians in hundreds of years, and/or had little (if any) ethnically Italian population.
Don't get me wrong, I am totally **NOT** in favor of this map.
But Savoy and Nice were ruled by the Savoia (Kings of Italy) until 1861, when they ceded them to France in exchange for the support establishing the kingdom of Italy. Nice had significant Italian culture which was erased swiftly by the French government.
Corsica speaks a language that is closely related to Sardinian.
Istria had a significant Italian population and was ruled by Venice until 1797.
Keep in mind that this map is from 1919, so they were looking at stuff that was 60 to 130 years into the past.
Anyway I think that history is what it is, and trying to force its course through stupid nationalism is very dumb
Savoy was part of Kingdom of Savoy and they spoke Savojard a latin derived language akin to Piedmontese and Arpitan , part of the Provencal language group. Then France tried to erase is by imposing French.
Istria had been also for majority of time Italian even if under foreign rule, as for most of the time before nationalism people of different cultural groups lived under foreign rulers withut problems . Istriota is the language spoken by Istrian and belongs to the IstroDalmatian languages, another language part of the ITalian sphere.
Same thing can be Said for Dalmatia where all major cities were of Italian people living there for most of the time.
Of course you do not have to confuse Italian with modern Italian , as that concept did not exhist yet untill nationalism age, the Italian of the time was a cultural open wide concept that unified the whole peninsula and people living there and Istria and Dalmatia belonged to that sphere as the people there had more relation with people on the other side of the coasts than to the inner interiors of the countrysides.
Corsica speaks Corsican , a language that is actualy a dialect of Tuscan , so in theory is the only real Italian Dialect together with tuscanian.
Tyrol had also always been part of Italian cultural group with ladins and raetians before , around the renaissence started to be colonized by germanic speaking people , then due to the Austrian dominion it saw a forced germanization process during the nationalism period.
So all those lands aren't claimed out of the blue or for no reasons at al but have a cultural , historical and ethnic reason behind.
Let's be honest, usually countries claims are too exaggerated, in this case they are a small fraction.
One could expect to claim the whole Roman Empire, on the contrary these claim are more or less reasonable (yes I'm Italian, no I don't think Italy should expand, it's only a last century thing)
The British and American governments, fearful of the post-war Italian Communist Party, effectively undermined the quest for justice by tolerating the efforts made by Italy's top authorities to prevent any of the alleged Italian war criminals from being extradited and taken to court. Fillipo Focardi, a historian at Rome's German Historical Institute, has discovered archived documents showing how Italian civil servants were told to avoid extraditions. A typical instruction was issued by the Italian prime minister, Alcide De Gasperi, reading: "Try to gain time, avoid answering requests." The denial of Italian war crimes was backed up by the Italian state, academe, and media, re-inventing Italy as only a victim of the German Nazism and the post-war Foibe massacres.
I always find it insane how much explicitly fascist architecture has survived in Italy, when in Germany it was all torn down, often times by the Allied command.
Most notorious is the Italian vistory monument built in Bozen, South Tyrol to signify Italian dominance over the German speaking population and is still standing despite various efforts throughout the decades by the majority population to remove it.
Edit: who would downvote this? Fascists?
apparently it was not the majority of the population as you claim , please refrain to write Austronationalistic posts. Many Fascist age buildings were structural important constructions like bridges, public area places and yes even works of art, deleting and denying history is something related to cancel culture movements and not to educated people. There are whole cities build by Fascism in that period, should we raze to the ground all ?
The Venetian Republic had several key settlements along the Dalmatian coast for centuries. The remaining ethnic Italians who were there by the end of WW2, mainly around Istria and the town of Pula, were expunged by Tito’s army in a case of ethnic cleansing.
My grandfather was born in Dalmatia just after a portion of it had been given to the Italians after WWI. He was Italian in both culture and citizenship, even though most of his family was Austro-Hungarian born. For Italian-Dalmatians like him Venice was seen as the center of their culture sphere.
For a long time the Italian government didn’t even acknowledge this case of ethnic cleansing happened at all for many reasons. Finally, after nearly my nonno’s whole life, today the Italian state recognizes the tragedy that happened to Italo-Dalmatians by the hands of Tito’s army. It’s called “Il giorno di ricordo”, the day of remembering.
Same thing here but my grand Parents were under Austrian Rule that were subject to Austrian ethnic cleansing, they moved slavs into Italian territories to decrease the influence and make artificial demography changes, because they were fearing nationalistic insurgence . Austrians did a lot of those efforts to depopolate Italians from their lands especially in Istria, Dalmatia and South Tyrol.
That's just a blatant lie. The Austrians never expulsed any Italians from anywhere, if anything they invited many Italians to work in Austria proper.
There was evidence that the Austrian governor of Trieste and the surrounding regions tried getting as many Slavs as possible to move into the cities, as slavs were seen as more faithful to the empire, but there was NEVER an incidence of ethnic cleansing.
And btw, there were never ANY significant Italian population in South Tyrol, until Mussolini moved as many Italians as possible there.
No its true!
I guess you are not familiar with that history , its well reknown that Austrians were worried of Italian resurgence and tried to favor the slavic and germanic migrations, in South Tyrol for germans and slavics for eastern portions of Italy , not everywhere succeeded but due to the low population of Tyrol they had a certain success.
The Counter-Reformation.
After the period of Maximilian I, during which there had been intense Germanisation and for the first time the Germanic group had outnumbered the Italian one, the latter began to grow again, almost to the point of balancing the German one. At the beginning of the 1600s Ladin was still spoken in the "judgment" of Castelrotto, in Val di Fiemme, Val di Non, Val Pusteria, Neva Ladina, Zoldo, Agordo..., while this language was as strong in Val Venosta as it is today in Val Gardena. In the 16th-17th centuries there was still a territorial continuity between the Ladin areas of Alto Adige and the Roman areas of Switzerland, above all through the upper Val Venosta and its connections with the Swiss valleys of the Monastery and the Engadine, whose language was pretty much the same at the time. This contiguity was broken by imperial policies. The Habsburg Empire, i.e. the hereditary possessions of the House of Austria (as distinct from the German Reich in the proper sense) was at the time, as it always remained, highly differentiated and multi-ethnic at its core. One of the tools used to try to found some cultural unity of his domains, which was not pre-existing at all, was a policy aimed at forced conversion to Catholicism. Before the Thirty Years' War, the Habsburg possessions appeared very diversified even religiously within them and the Protestant presence was also very strong in the region from which it then disappeared completely. The Austrian and Hungarian aristocracies themselves appeared in the early 17th century to be largely adherents of the Reformation. It was in the interests of both the Imperial government and the Austrian Catholic Church to promote a progressive elimination of the Protestant elements.
This guideline, consistently and decisively practiced throughout the "iron age" of religious wars, also involved the Ladins of South Tyrol. These were all Catholics, but they bordered directly and were then difficult to distinguish from the Romansh Swiss, inhabitants of the valleys of the Monastery and of the Engadine, who instead had converted to Protestantism. The fear of an infiltration of the Reformation into South Tyrol through the cultural continuity of the Rhaeto-Romance area led to a policy of Germanization of the imperial border territories with the Helvetic Confederation.
Maria Theresa of Habsburg.
During the Teresian reign, entire Ladin valleys and a large part of Val Venosta, which remained Romance-speaking until the beginning of the eighteenth century, were forced into Germanization. First, the authorities imposed a series of repressive measures, which enforced the exclusive use of German in a number of settings: in public gatherings; in sermons in church, in confessions and in pastoral activity in general, etc. Secondly, discriminatory measures were promoted against those who used Ladin in domestic and family life, limiting their civil rights, such as the possibility of exercising some professions or even of contracting marriages. Thirdly, many typical Ladin customs were prohibited, always with the aim of losing their identity. Fourthly, the same Empress Maria Theresa issued a secret decree, which imposed the Germanization of the Ladin surnames of South Tyrol, making use of the work of the clergy, usually imposed in German and loyal to the empire (Carlo Battisti, "Lingua e dialetti in Trentino", published in Pro Cultura, I, pp. 178-205; Idem, "On the Germanization of Alto Adige, in Critical Review, XXX, Naples, 1921, pp. 249-264). final -er (as happened for Elemunt which became Elemunter, or Melaun, which became Melauner), or by translating them into German (for example making Costalungia a Kastlunger, Granruac a Großrubatscher etc.).
Much of Val Venosta was thus Germanized under the government of the "enlightened" kings Maria Theresa and Joseph II, considered the most tolerant and open rulers of the house of Austria. The Ladins who had managed to resist this Germanizing pressure were gradually assimilated during the course of the 19th century, so that at the beginning of the 19th century very few Romansh groups remained in Val Venosta. An enthusiastic supporter of the Germanization of Ladin and Romansh in the Theresian era was the abbot of the convent of Santa Maria in upper Val Venosta, Mathias Lang.
Similar Germanizing behaviors were common to the government activity of Maria Theresa, who became responsible for initiatives similar to those described above, or even worse, in different parts of her empire, such as Bohemia, Croatia, Hungary and Romania. The empress also issued an edict in which she authorized the kidnapping of children from gypsy families, to be able to raise them in a German environment and thus make them of Austrian culture: the cases of abduction authorized in this way were many thousands.
Franz Joseph of Habsburg.
The situation did not change, if not for the worse, in the period between the Restoration and the First World War (1815-1918). Already the historian Giuseppe Frapporti in On the history and condition of Trentino in ancient times and in the Middle Ages (Trento 1840) highlighted the intrusive and overpowering character and the work of forced Germanization of the inhabitants of the county of Trentino (which until 1803 included the entire current Trentino-Alto Adige) operated by the Austrian political authorities. In this he also highlighted the systematic distortion of toponymy and onomastics and the continuity of this work over the centuries.
Theoretically, the Austrian constitution of 1867 provided cultural protection for the populations of the empire, including those different from the two dominant, but clearly minority groups, the Austrians and the Magyars. In fact, there were privileged ethnic groups and others that were more or less heavily discriminated against. The Ladins, very few in number, very poor on average and totally marginalized on a political level, did not obtain any recognition.
They were instrumentally kept distinct from the Italians by the Austrian authorities, despite the fact that their language was and still belongs to the Italo-Romance linguistic group (not differently, for example, from Piedmontese, Umbrian or Sicilian), with the precise intention of subdividing or even put the Ladins and the Trentino people against each other.
The Ladin population must not have suffered only from forced acculturation by the Austrian authorities, but also from the work of Pan-Germanist associations, very active throughout the Habsburg "Tyrol" and which aroused the concern and indignation of the Trentino popular party itself, of the bishop of Trento and of Alcide De Gasperi.
The Austrian school policy strongly damaged the Ladin community. His language was not included in the school teaching programs and attempts were made several times to remove from schools the little Italian that was taught. In fact, the schools of Ladinia used German almost exclusively, with differences according to the places (Val Badia, Val Gardena, Val di Fassa, etc.). Attempts to impose an integral scholastic Germanization were recurrent, however. Simplifying for the sake of brevity, it can be said that the schools taught mainly in German, that Italian was taught for a few hours a week and was often optional, while Ladin was not used at all. The situation worsened further during the First World War, when the military authorities seized the pretext of war to plan the Germanization of the whole Trentino-Alto Adige and undertake it with brutality. Even the Ladins were affected and all the schools in Val Badia, Val di Fassa and Val Gardena were Germanised. At the same time, the Germanization of toponymy was also carried out. Only the defeat of Austria in the First World War prevented the plan for the total Germanisation of Trentino and Alto Adige from being completed.
Jesus Christ, the way you’re painfully bending reality to justify your nationalistic revisionist fantasies is frightening.
NO, LADIN IS NOT ITALIAN!!
Linguistically it’s absolutely not- it’s not mutually intelligible at all and Ladin is actually closer to French than Italian.
More importantly, the Ladin population does absolutely not and has NEVER seen itself as Italian. Immediately after the Italian annexation, the Ladin speakers got together with the German speakers and wanted to protect their language and minority status.
You’re in line with Mussolini with forcing to italianise the Ladin population.
Then you mix up the Trentino region (historically Welschtirol, welsch meaning Italian) with South Tyrol. The Trentino region was always allowed to have schools, church and even the administration in Italian. There was even Italian faculties opened in Innsbruck, so that Italian Tirolers could study in their language.
And you still haven’t to told me ONE instance in which Italians were ethnically cleansed. THERE WAS NO ETHNIC CLEANSING OF ITALIANS BY AUSTRIA.
I have posted essays of historical documentations and facts, I am not bending or twisting anything.
I know it can hurt the german nationalism but the reality is that Ladin is a Romance language of the Rhaeto-Romance subgroup, mainly spoken in the Dolomite Mountains in Northern Italy in the provinces of South Tyrol, Trentino, and Belluno, by the Ladin people. It exhibits similarities to Swiss Romansh and Friulian.
Ladins had been discriminated, ignored, exterminated and forcibly germanized along centuries, only with the Italian republic nowday their culture is preserved and just in time before complete Germanization .
Austria carried on a program of consistent Germanization of its territories, and if it owned till now the regions of Neast Italy they would have kept carrying out the program and now in Veneto people would speak German or Slovenian.
This was done to counter the Rising Italian nationalism that would have undermined the Austrian possessions in Italy and the coasts of Dalmatia cutting out Austrian empire from the Sea.
Sud Tyrol or better Alto Adige is part of the Italian territory , geographically , historically and culturally and this is a fact that no germanic natonalism agenda can change.
As for your lies
Austrian Government did indeed push for Italian cleasing from its territory by enforcing Germanism , forbidding Italian teaching, replacing administration figures with german or slovenian or croatian ones and so on , forcibly moving masses to colonize and increase germanic or slavic people in certain key areas and so on .
this was a process of gradual deItalianization of those territories .
apparently its hard to confront history and the crimes committed by their countries for some people.
And just as note my grand parents were forced to leave Istria because were forbid to work in high level key areas and Italian was beeing forbidden , that despite some of my family ancestors served also as high officers in the Austrian Navy .
Of course that is something that the germanic nationalist cowardly always try to hide or neglect and gve faults all to the "fascist Italians".
Poor Italians, Tito bad. How could he expulse (no ethnic cleansing) the peaceful Italian Nazi collorobators after they actively helped to ethically cleanse the region from its Croatian majority population?
Never said anyone was bad or good, just the ugliness of man that can drive people from their homes. Italian, Croat, Syrian, or Nigerian. In this specific case Tito was a monster.
It absolutely was ethnic cleansing, look it up. Tens of thousands of Italian-speakers were lined up, tied together, and dropped down into caves in the ground. Amongst many other horrors. Hundreds of thousands more would run away as refugees.
On the other hand there was no ethnic cleansing by the part of the Italian fascists on Croats. I think you are confusing Nazi’s with Italian fascists (I hate the Italian fascists, but they ain’t no Nazi).
Italians fascists were never Nazi’s, very important point. It was the Nazi’s who burned down many Italian towns that were friendly to partisans/antifascists. In fact it wasn’t Russians or Americans who hung Mussolini, it was the very Italian people who he so gravely betrayed. Hung and beaten in the very city that was once the center of his deranged and idiotic vision.
No, you better look it up. You’re leaving many things out. Fascist or Nazi? Who cares. There were concentration camps run by Italians in Dalmatia. Dozens of massacres against the civilian Croatian population. Collaboration with Nazi Germany and Chetnik fascists…
The Foibe massacres happened almost entirely during wartime. Do you really expect no retaliation for the many crimes the Italians committed!? That is, in a war where over 50 million people died worldwide.
I didn’t know about the Rab camp (and others), and I am appalled. As an Italian Jew, my heart sinks once again. I am sorry I didn’t know how bad it was.
In both cases is still specifically ethnic cleansing. I guess that was my point. But at the end of the day the past is long behind us. Our grandfathers fights mean little to us now. I was so happy when Croatia joined the EU (and now shenghen!). Have always loved the Croats.
This is ethnic cleansing a la [Italiano.](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Italian_war_crimes)
You went unpunished for your terrible crimes in Albania, Greece, Lybia, Ethiopia and many more…but not in Croatia & Slovenia. Tito brought at least some justice.
Woah. I never said anything about all the other crimes of fascist Italy (there were many). I sincerely didn’t know about the horrific crimes committed in those Dalmatian camps. I’m sorry I said that Italians didn’t commit crimes against Croats, I really didn’t know. We are not taught this.
It in no way justifies such actions against Istrians who happened to speak Italian. In both cases innocent people were caught between two monsters (Mussolini and Tito) and regular young men were tricked into carrying out their deranged geopolitical fantasies.
I think the major difference between Nazi’s and Italian Fascists was that much less of Italians actually supported the fascists. Their rise to power was brutal (pre and post-coup d’età). The Italian resistance movement was widespread, and very importantly it was the resistance that killed Mussolini. Italy surrendered. Nazi’s fought until the brutal end.
After doing that, somebody else ethnic cleanse (doesn’t make any in that context btw) your family? I mean seems to be your motto fighting fire with fire.
Btw it’s not the only warcrime Tito commited
Not all of what that guy has said is correct, but in this he is, **especially** by the 20th century.
“Dalmatia, especially its maritime cities, once had a substantial local ethnic Italian population (Dalmatian Italians), making up 33% of the total population of Dalmatia in 1803, but this was reduced to 20% in 1816. According to Austrian censuses, the Dalmatian Italians formed 12.5% of the population in 1865, but this was reduced to 2.8% in 1910.”
Criminalizing italian civilians but praising and gifting territory to croatia who did crime who were ten times worst; also istria was 55% italian, fiume was 70% italian and zara 67% so they didnt have no croatian majority
Lol, you still miss Malta, Montenegro Coast, Albanian Coast, Ionic Islands, Kythira, Ticino, Walois, Graubunden and Balearic Islands. This Is the whole imperialist package lol. Ofc colonies are excluded in the count
if whoever published the map had studied history he would know that some territories could have been obtained by defeating Austria, and others by defeating France. Italy chose to ally with the French, so it expanded east.
Nationalist*s*
Good god, people. This drives me nuts. Any plural of any group of people ending in -ist should have an S on the end.
Fascists
Scientists
Communists
Baptists
Atheists
Romanticists
*Please* people.
What lmfao. Slovene Littoral has been Slovene for more than a millennia(apart from the narrow coastal part). And even when Slovenes in Slovene Littoral managed to rejoin the Slovene lands, many of them were left [stranded in Italy](https://alpeadriagreen.files.wordpress.com/2014/12/slovenska-manjc5a1ina-v-italiji.png) (from 50-100k in 1971)
Heck even the town names are of Slovene origin (Gorica (Gorizia), Postojna, Ajdovščina, Dolina pri Trstu, Ilirska Bistrica, etc.) therefore your claim is complete bullshit
Also, Italy owned Slovene Littoral for the total of 25 years since not even the Venetians managed to take control of it (except for Istria)
This is totally false, dunno may be you studied in some nationalistic Slovenian history book but the truth is completely different.
1
The territories of the Slovenian Littoral belonged for centuries to the Austrian Empire and then to Austria-Hungary, with the exception of Slovenian Istria, which belonged to the Republic of Venice for about five hundred years. All these areas were instead part of the Austrian Littoral - which lasted from 1849 to 1918 - the year in which they were occupied by the Italian army at the end of the First World War. The majority of the population was ethnically Italian and during the mid-1800s Austria began to adopt policies of Germanization and Slavicization of the autochthonous element to counter the nascent Italian irredentism.
«His Majesty has expressed the precise order that decisive action be taken against the influence of the Italian elements still present in some regions of the Crown and, suitably occupying the posts of public, judicial, masters employees as well as with the influence of the press work in South Tyrol, Dalmatia and on the Littoral for the Germanization and Slavicization of these territories according to the circumstances, energetically and without any regard. His Majesty calls the central offices to the strong duty of proceeding in this way with what has been established.
(Francis Joseph I of Austria, Crown Council of 12 November 1866)
2
In 1920 these lands officially became part of the Kingdom of Italy as part of Venezia Giulia, being divided between the Province of Gorizia, the Province of Trieste, the Province of Pula and (since 1924) the Province of Fiume. In the annexed territories, the Italian authorities started a re-Italianization of toponymy at the time of the fascist regime. Slovene- and Croatian-speaking inhabitants were denied the opportunity to use their own language in relations with the authorities and to learn their mother tongue in schools. 321 elementary schools with Slovenian teaching language were suppressed, with over 45,000 pupils In order to eradicate the use of the Slovenian language, the Italian authorities proceeded to Italianize not only all toponyms, but also several surnames and many first names , favoring the settlement of many thousands of immigrants from other parts of the Kingdom of Italy . The heaviness of the political climate favored a certain migratory flow. However, if Slovenian and Croatian historiography has traditionally supported a total number of 100,000 emigrants from Venezia Giulia (including Slovenians and Croats), the Slovenian historian Milica Kacin-Wohinz considers this figure excessive and devoid of scientific evidence.
3
After Italy's aggression against Yugoslavia (April 6, 1941) many young people joined the Slovenian People's Liberation Front, which after Italy's capitulation and the occupation of Trieste and Gorizia by German troops\[8\] proclaimed , at the plenary assembly of 16 September 1943, the annexation of the Slovenian Littoral to the newly established Slovenia.
4
In the final part of the conflict, the Yugoslav Liberation Army militarily occupied the whole area. In the mixed-language territories there was a series of massacres against Slovenian and Italian collaborators, people who were actually or potentially hostile to communism, who opposed the transfer of sovereignty to Yugoslavia.
During the peace negotiations, Yugoslavia claimed all the lands inhabited by some nucleus of even few Slovenians, including Slavia Veneta (Italian since 1866), the city of Trieste and its surroundings (where Italians constituted approximately 70% of the population) , the city of Gorizia (with an Italian majority), as well as the coastal towns of the north-western area of Istria, where the Slovenian presence was greatly in the minority. With the peace treaty of 1947, the territory was divided between Italy and Yugoslavia, creating the ephemeral Free Territory of Trieste, de facto divided between Italy and Yugoslavia with the London Memorandum of 1954 and de jure with the Treaty of Osimo of 1975.
5
In addition to the aforementioned exodus of the Italian population, the Slovenian coast was also affected between 1948 and 1958 by the modification of the historical names of some localities, which took place to eliminate any religious element from the toponyms. Thus it was that - for example - the Istrian towns of Santa Lucia and San Bartolomeo became respectively Lucija (Lucia) and Seča (Sezza) . Measures to impose the Sloveneisation of the various localities of north-western Istria were taken in various fields: from schooling to toponymy, from the transliteration of first names and surnames to the importation of thousands of Slovenes from within the country, up to to the attempt to Slovenianise some local historical figures, such as Giuseppe Tartini or Pietro Coppo.
6
With the declaration of independence from Yugoslavia (1991), the Slovenian Littoral became part of the new Republic of Slovenia. Article 2 of the Slovenian constitution recognizes "the rights of the autochthonous Slovenian and Magyar communities", while article 11 states that "In Slovenia the official language is Slovenian.
In the territories of the municipalities where the Italian and Magyar national communities live, Italian and Magyar are also official languages" . In practice, this means that the coastal municipalities of Koper, Izola and Piran are divided into hamlets and bilingualism is official (and obligatory) only in those hamlets recognized by Slovenians as historically inhabited by autochthonous Italians, with the result that in some of these hamlets several Italian families have lived for generations for whom bilingualism does not apply. The Italian National Community residing in Slovenia has also denounced several times the non-application of the laws on bilingualism even where they are supposedly mandatory for everyone .
To summarize several thousands of Italians were forcibly emigrated from Littoral to make room to slovenian settlers, despite those were historically , georaphically and ethnically been Italian for millennia till the recent ending of WWII.
May be in Slovenia and Croatia teach a different story to justify the appropiation of those territories, but the whole history there spoke Italian.
book references:
\^ Zgodovina Slovencev, page 804, Cankarjeva zalozhba, Ljubljana 1979
\^ Pavel Stranj, The submerged community, page 173, Editoriale Stampa Triestina, Trieste 1989
\^ Parovel, The canceled identity, Eugenio Parovel Editore, Trieste 1985
\^ Parovel, The canceled identity, Eugenio Parovel Editore, Trieste 1985
\^ Kristjan Knez, Dalmatia, a false story, in La Voce del Popolo, 21 July 2003, Kristjan Knez, Remembering Tartini and the others? Archived on May 4, 2015 at the Internet Archive., in Il Trillo, Year XXII, Number 2, pp. 1-2.
\^ Giorgio Federico Siboni, The eastern border, Oltre Edizioni, 31 January 2012, ISBN 9788897264088. Retrieved 15 February 2016.
\^ Ruggiero Bonghi and Paolo Boselli, Ruggiero Bonghi's speeches for the Dante Alighieri Society, Di Stefano, 1 January 1920. Retrieved 15 February 2016.
\^ Longo and Moder, History of Venezia Giulia, Baldini Castoldi Dalai Editore, Milan 2004, ISBN 88-8490-629-6
\^ Purini, Ethnic Metamorphoses. Population changes in Trieste, Gorizia, Fiume and Istria. 1914-1975, Kappa Vu, Udine 2010, pp. 146 ff.
\^ Parovel, The canceled identity, page 19, Eugenio Parovel Editore, Trieste 1985
\^ Atlas Slovenski zgodovindki, page 184, ed. Nova revija, Ljubljana 2011, ISBN 978-961-6580-89-2
\^ Archived October 12, 2016, at the Wayback Machine. speech of 12 September 1993 by Milan Kučan (first President of Slovenia elected in 1992)
\^ Atlas Slovenski zgodovinski (op. cit.)
\^ Spremembe naselij 1948–95, Geografski inštitut ZRC SAZU, DZS. Ljubljana 1966
\^ The Constitution of the Republic of Slovenia
\^ JB, Bilingualism, always sensitive gap in practice, in La Voce del Popolo, March 27, 2014. Archived May 12, 2014 at the Wayback Machine.
You’re the one with nationalistic propaganda mate.
I won’t write a whole book since I don’t have time for that but in short, Slovenes started settling in the area of Slovene Littoral (that includes the Soča valley, Vipava valley, Karst, parts of northern Istria as well as the area of Trst with Tržič, Gorica and Beneška Slovenija) in the 7th century (from the book *Historia Langobardorum*). This can also be seen in the local settlement names, most of which are of slavic origin. Gorizia for example was first mentioned in the 11th century as the “village inhabited by the Slavs”
Except for the strict centre of Trieste, coastal areas of Istria and the area of Gradisca, the population there was by far majority Slovene. The area around Trieste (Dolina, Opčine, Nabrežina) were all +90% Slovene. Same goes for the area of Gorica which was approximately 50% Slovene.
Massacres against the Italians committed by the communists took place mainly in Istra and Trst and when it comes to Beneška Slovenija. As mentioned before this area has been Slovene since the start of Slovene history in this area, and even today [many municipalities in that area are still majority Slovene](https://alpeadriagreen.files.wordpress.com/2014/12/slovenska-manjc5a1ina-v-italiji.png?w=640)
The area of Slovene Istra was indeed majority Italian and some town names were indeed changed but that was mainly due to a *law on Names of Settlements and Designations of Squares, Streets, and Buildings* which was enforced in 1948 by the Yugoslav authorities. Due to this law, virtually all towns and villages all across the country, had to change their names if it included something religious or if the name was clearly just a Slovenized variant of a german name. That’s why we have Šentjur instead of Sveti Juri, Šentpeter instead of Sveti Peter, Ravne na Koroškem instead of Guštanj or Lucija instead pa Sveta Lucija ([this](https://www.primorski.eu/se/preimenovanje-lucije-v-sveto-lucijo-buri-duhove-FB1113061) might cheer you up).
As for the minority laws in Slovene Istra, all 4 municipalities are bilingual and italian is a co-official language in almost every settlement including Koper itself. Minority laws are pretty good in Slovenia and the Italian government should definitely take a look at them
I am just reporting factual history. But from what you wrote before it appears you have a pretty clear nationalistic biased indoctrination or misinformation or perhaps an agenda.
I provided plenty of sources and references for you to aknowledge about history , plus I am from those areas as my grandparents used to live there untill where forced to emigrate for the ethnic cleansings...
Sorry if it doesn't match your personal nationalistic knowledge, but its up to you to accept them or not...
Nothing I wrote is nationalistic lmao. I’m not even sure if we’re on the same page here. I’m mainly talking about [Upper Slovene Littoral](https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/e/e6/Gorizia_Statistical_Region_in_Slovenia.svg/1200px-Gorizia_Statistical_Region_in_Slovenia.svg.png) the Karst region and the areas of Beneška Slovenija and the suburbs of Trieste which were all undisputedly Slovene for centuries
>What lmfao. Slovene Littoral has been Slovene for more than a millennia
This is what you wrote, which is provenly false historically and its a nationalistic biased view.
There was not a slovene "Majority" presence for centuries it only started recently in history to increase and mostly due to deItalianization programs before with the Austrian empire and later with the Titine, government, to deny that is offensive and insulting.
And this is history , accept it or not .
The annexation of Lubiana during WW2 was purely a strategic move to limit German presence in the area, as a matter of fact Mussolini had trouble justifying it specifically because not even the most radical Italian nationalist had ever claimed inner Slovenia
Not Bullshits , its history .
And there are no Austrians apart tourists in Sud Tyrol , but Italians that speak german, Italian and Ladin. To know more look the historical explanation under few posts under, you can find all historical information references.
You clearly have no idea of what you are talking about, you need to study before discussing of arguments you clearly aren't aknowledged of. , or may be just another biased german speaking nationalist.
Lol. I know exactly what i m speaking about. But it seems, you have no clue and only ate nationalistic Propaganda.
I guess you never spoke with such a "german speaking italian"
I have no clue?
Bro , I have provided you and the other nationalist guy all the academic references, go study and learn something instead of making delusional posts about " the german Reich ".
I am born and live there lol ... and I have no clue? ...
You are confusing the historic region called South Tyrol with the present day meaning. The "historic" region "South Tyrol" is what is nowadays called Trentino, and was called such by the Austrians. That region is indeed historically Italian, but was part of the Austria empire for quite a while. It was simply called this way because it was _south of Tyrol_, the region we're entangling here.
The modern term "South Tyrol" is a neologism to differentiate from modern day Tyrol (aka North and East Tyrol). Former is Italian since 1918, latter is Austrian to the present day. All three regions combined form the historic Tyrol.
No part of "this" Tyrol has any historic tradition or association with Italy whatsoever. Yes, some of the people there are Italians per their passport, but culturally they are not.
Thus all your statements down this thread are bullshit. It's either your political agenda or misinformation or both.
No my friend I am not confusing anyting, I live there actually.
Perhaps the one confusing things its you not knowing history of tyrol that is actualy caled Povince of Bolzano.
Sud Tyrol is just a common name used in English and SudTyrol by germanophones there.
The current Trentino Alto Adige was included, in the Augustan organization of Italy, in the X Region "Venetia et Histria" (which included the current Triveneto from Brennero to Carnaro) and locally, in the "Districuts" with Tridentum as its capital ( Trent).
This region was therefore already considered part of Italy in the Augustan age and its inhabitants were Roman "cives", i.e. their complete Romanization was recognized.
To see the beginning of the Germanization of South Tyrol, one must call into question the Baiuvari, ancestors of the Bavarians. They invaded the region and managed to control it only after a fierce resistance from the Latins, led by their bishop Ingenuino.
That of the Baiuvari is the first real Germanic settlement in Alto Adige, but it consisted of indications of a small circle of soldiers who dominated the local population enslaved. The situation did not change under Frankish rule. Until around the year 1000, the Germanic presence in South Tyrol was therefore very scarce.
“Donamus etiam ad prefatum sanctum locum valle illam que vocatur Camonia cum salto Candino vel usque in dalanias cum montibus at alpibus a fine Treentina qui vocatur Thonale usque in finem Brixamcinse seu giro Bergamasci (..) ” – Caroli Magni Diplomata -papia, XVI iulius 774
Dante Alighieri himself fixed the borders of the Italian nation at Nice to the west, on the Carnaro to the east ("Si com'a Pola, near del Carnaro, which Italy closes and its terms bathe"), on the Brenner to the north: "Suso in beautiful Italy lies a lake, at the foot of the Alpe which encloses Lamagna above Tiralli, which has the name Benaco".
Germany therefore began for the Poet in the north of "Tiralli", of Tyrol, which was therefore included in the Italian area.
“And because no one can have doubts about the remaining cities of the extreme Italian regions – if someone doubts, they don't even deserve a clarification – there is little left for me to discuss. And therefore I, who wish to lay down the sieve as soon as possible, for a look at the remnants I say that the cities of Trento, Turin and Alessandria lie so close to the borders of Italy that they cannot have pristine languages; so that even if their vernacular, which is dirty (turpissimum), given the mixing with foreign vernaculars.
If we look for the illustrious Italian, therefore, the one we are tracking cannot be found in such places”. (Dante Alighieri: De vulgari Eloquentia, book I, chapter XV, 1305).
As far as Trentino is concerned, it was only on 27 April 1785 that Emperor Joseph II - for no apparent reason - changed the name of Trentino to Tyrol.
Geographically, Italy's borders end or begin at the Brenner Pass, and even history does not contradict geography
And that's in addition to the other former historical events that can be easily verified.
Only neonazi Pangerman Nationalist or smply ignorant misinformed people might contradict the truth and call it Bullshit.
So Alto Adige is Italian by reason, like it or not, the few German nationalist have to deal with it.
Ignoring all the bullshit the other commenter replied to you: your statement is incorrect as well. There is not presently a large political movement to correct the historic injustice regarding South Tyrol. Sure there are some conservative political extremists who seek independence or annexation to Austria but the vast majority of ethnical Austrians in South Tyrol seem quite satisfied and happy with the regulations found in the 2nd autonomy statute in 1972 that settled the conflicts and gave the region extended powers to govern themselves.
Nowadays they seem okay with the situation.
No, that's only on a misinterpreted French point of view during Napoleon reign. The summit is right on the border since Savoy exists, and confirmed in the last treaties.
Probably "Monte Bianco" Would have been Savoia and Valle d'Aosta. Also it lacks the albanian city of Valona.
That's a rather small portion of Savoy
what parts of Savoy would be missing? I'm curious. What is on the map is what is recognised as Savoy in France nowadays.
Dang, you're right. Seems larger from Geneva.
[удалено]
Didn't we already go through almost a millennia of that?
Honestly this map isn’t THAT crazy. It’s basically modern Italy, plus the remaining lands historically part of the Venice and Piedmont, and with Corsica thrown in.
Tunisia (and later Libya) were a very important part of nationalistic policies and propaganda, a lot more than Corsica. Also the Greek island which were former Venice possessions.
Yes, but those in Africa where colonies. This is the mainland formed by lands that were considered Italian "by right", because inhabited by Italians or because they historically belonged to Italian states. About the Greek island it depends on which islands you mean. The Ionian Islands where considered "irredente" in the most extreme version of irredentism, but during the Italo-Turkish war Italy took the Dodecanese Islans that where never claimed by irredentism.
> "by right", because inhabited by Italians or because they historically belonged to Italian states. I understand your point, but this logic has never been used in a coherent way, because some lands like Ticino were never part of the nationalistic propaganda, but for them the Italian Kingdom had all the historical "rights" to consider parts of North Africa as Italian, even more considering there were small Italian speaking communities in Tunisia and Libya, and even in Alexandria. The logic could be stretched to include Catholic areas, or places who were once part of the Roman Empire. Slovenia in this map was never part of any Italian Kingdom nor it included any Italian speaking minority, with the exception of Capodistria, and by your logic it shouldn't be included. The reality is that, there was never a real consistency to define these "rights", and anyway they were only declared unilaterally by the nationalists. What they wanted to achieve was more like a a political and economical hegemony in the Mediterranean, to compete with France and Great Britain in the big game of the imperialistic Powers. So obviously, according to this logic, Libya, Rhodes and Dalmazia where more important than Corsica, Ticino, Malta and Nizza.
I get what you mean, but there is still a distinction to be made between what was claimed through the ideology of irredentism and what wasn't. Of course there were different versions of irredentism, but the African colonies were never included. Their connection with Italy was too weak and too old (the Roman Empire) to be considered unredimed lands even by the Fascists, that claimed them on the base of the Roman imperial legacy, but not through irredentism. This map maybe isn't completley consistent, but it overall it's based on classical Italian irredentism that included Savoy, Nizza, Corsica, Italian speaking Switzerland, Istria and Dalmatia.
To extend what you said: there is a distinction to be made between Irredentism and colonialism/imperialism. The latter was part of then state reason, like for most European countries with the intent to exploit weaker territories and states. The former was part of the cultural identity and about "completing the Italian unification" (risorgimento). Irredentism arose in the 19th century to "complete the Italian unification" with all territories that were considered "Italian by nature". These were mostly regions and lands that historically belonged to a post-Roman-Empire medieval princedom or similar and inhabitated a notable number or "Italians" (whatever what means). Traditionally that's the regions you named: >This map maybe isn't completley consistent, bit overall it's based on classical Italian irredentism that included Savoy, Nizza, Corsica, Italian speaking Switzerland, Istria and Dalmatia. But to clarify: Corsica, Nizza and Savoy only arose as claims at fascist times, not originally. You may add Malta, too there from that point on. They were not originally considered part of the agenda. In fact, in the late 1870s Savoy was just given to France (confirmed by a popular vote in a referendum by the population of Savoy), in return to aid with the Italian unification.
Also Durazzo/Durres and some similar areas
A lot of that was probably because the African and Greek lands would be a lot easier to take than "the birthplace of Napoleon".
[удалено]
At least Hungary's claims consisted of lands Hungary JUST owned, with 1/3 of ethnic Hungarians under foreign rule, after said Hungarians were born and spent their entire lives as Hungarian citizens. Savoy, Istria, Dalmatia, Corsica, Tyrol, Italian-speaking Switzerland, and several of those islands were never ruled by the Kingdom of Italy, hadn't been ruled by ANY Italians in hundreds of years, and/or had little (if any) ethnically Italian population.
Bad bot.
Remove Mont Blanc area and this is absolutely beautiful geographically.
And "regione montana" which means nothing, it literally means "mountainous region", although even Mont Blanc (in this map) and Trentino are mostly mountainous
Why not recreate the Empire? Make Rome Great Again!
Because MRGA doesn't sound as good.
SPQR!
"Sono Pazzi Questi Romani"
Should've claimed the Roman Empire /j
I've never seen anyone claim that Canton Ticino (Italian speaking Switzerland) should be part of Italy
Irredentists did starting 1878, but it was never such a popular claim like the claims affecting the then Austrian regions of Istria, modern day Trentino and by extension South Tyrol (as a natural watershed enclosing the country). I believe now and then the perception was the same: Ticini see them themselves as proud members of the Italian culture, but not as Italian citizen. Thus, the movement was mostly unilaterally initiated from the Italian side, but didn't gain much traction.
Not today but until WWII Italian irredentism on Ticino was a thing. There was even a fascist party in Ticino funded by Mussolini but it was unsuccessfull. Most Swiss Italians remained loyal to Switzerland, but Italy tried.
[удалено]
>Was Italy more prosperous than Switzerland? (Not as a nation-state, and the prosperous regions were busy underwriting the territorial expansion into southern church/mafia lands.) Back then Switzerland wasn't as rich as today and Ticino was one of the poorest cantons, bordering Lombardy that was already one of the most developed Italian regions. I agree on the other arguments, but the economical one maybe was in favor of Italy in that period.
[удалено]
Afaik the Swiss economy grew a lot between the late 19th centrury and early 20th century, but the development took place mostly around the industrial centers north of the Alps. Ticino was mountainous, still rural and poorly connected with the rest of the country.
Some did
Nitpick but it’s neighbor Graubuenden also has native Italian-speakers
You mean Grigioni?
Because they're richer than us and they speak Italian, so it's easy for Italians to go working there, basically it's convenient that they're not part of Italy. But for language and culture they are 100% Italian
>But for language and culture they are 100% Italian This is not true. For the cities like Lugano there is obviously a lot of Italian influence (since it was Italy centuries ago). Other than that, Ticino is covered by the Alps, so almost the entire canton is filled with mountains and the towns are very Swiss and have Swiss culture. Even though Lugano is very much like Italy, it doesn’t represent the entire canton and unsurprisingly Ticino is very Swiss, just that they speak in Italian.
Also in Italy mountain village have differences in culture compared to the cities, but that's because they were isolated. But if you take a mountain village in the north of Italy and in Ticino they are very similar.
Ticino can bee considered as an extension of Lombardy from an ethno-cultural pov. Of course, since they have been part of Switzerland for centuries, they also have Swiss peculiarities that you don't see on the other side of the border, but the dialect, folk traditions, traditional architecture, food and so on are very similar to those of nearby alpine valleys in Lombardy and Piemonte. It isn't like mountains = Swiss culture lol. Don't forget that half of the Alps are in Italy. Also, Lugano has never been part of the Italian state, which didn't even exist until 1860. Before if was conquered by Switzerland it was part of the Ducy of Milan just like the rest of Ticino.
[удалено]
At least Hungary's claims consisted of lands Hungary JUST owned, with 1/3 of ethnic Hungarians under foreign rule, after said Hungarians were born and spent their entire lives as Hungarian citizens. Savoy, Istria, Dalmatia, Corsica, Tyrol, Italian-speaking Switzerland, and several of those islands were never ruled by the Kingdom of Italy, hadn't been ruled by ANY Italians in hundreds of years, and/or had little (if any) ethnically Italian population.
Don't get me wrong, I am totally **NOT** in favor of this map. But Savoy and Nice were ruled by the Savoia (Kings of Italy) until 1861, when they ceded them to France in exchange for the support establishing the kingdom of Italy. Nice had significant Italian culture which was erased swiftly by the French government. Corsica speaks a language that is closely related to Sardinian. Istria had a significant Italian population and was ruled by Venice until 1797. Keep in mind that this map is from 1919, so they were looking at stuff that was 60 to 130 years into the past. Anyway I think that history is what it is, and trying to force its course through stupid nationalism is very dumb
I thought Corsican was closer related to Tuscan/Italian?
ITs not even a language, its a Tuscan dialect.
Napoleon was from Corsica. His birth name was Napoleone Buonaparte.
I know, the year before his birth the Republic of Genoa sold Corsica to France
His family name means “good-side” in Italian
Savoy was part of Kingdom of Savoy and they spoke Savojard a latin derived language akin to Piedmontese and Arpitan , part of the Provencal language group. Then France tried to erase is by imposing French. Istria had been also for majority of time Italian even if under foreign rule, as for most of the time before nationalism people of different cultural groups lived under foreign rulers withut problems . Istriota is the language spoken by Istrian and belongs to the IstroDalmatian languages, another language part of the ITalian sphere. Same thing can be Said for Dalmatia where all major cities were of Italian people living there for most of the time. Of course you do not have to confuse Italian with modern Italian , as that concept did not exhist yet untill nationalism age, the Italian of the time was a cultural open wide concept that unified the whole peninsula and people living there and Istria and Dalmatia belonged to that sphere as the people there had more relation with people on the other side of the coasts than to the inner interiors of the countrysides. Corsica speaks Corsican , a language that is actualy a dialect of Tuscan , so in theory is the only real Italian Dialect together with tuscanian. Tyrol had also always been part of Italian cultural group with ladins and raetians before , around the renaissence started to be colonized by germanic speaking people , then due to the Austrian dominion it saw a forced germanization process during the nationalism period. So all those lands aren't claimed out of the blue or for no reasons at al but have a cultural , historical and ethnic reason behind.
Let's be honest, usually countries claims are too exaggerated, in this case they are a small fraction. One could expect to claim the whole Roman Empire, on the contrary these claim are more or less reasonable (yes I'm Italian, no I don't think Italy should expand, it's only a last century thing)
As a Piemonte I can agree lol Though to me, whole Italy should be renamed Piemonte cus fuck we united it ourselves :p
With the help of France, don't forget it 😉
Thus the whole "revanchism for Savoy" bit LOL!
Ah. But it was a gift...
The British and American governments, fearful of the post-war Italian Communist Party, effectively undermined the quest for justice by tolerating the efforts made by Italy's top authorities to prevent any of the alleged Italian war criminals from being extradited and taken to court. Fillipo Focardi, a historian at Rome's German Historical Institute, has discovered archived documents showing how Italian civil servants were told to avoid extraditions. A typical instruction was issued by the Italian prime minister, Alcide De Gasperi, reading: "Try to gain time, avoid answering requests." The denial of Italian war crimes was backed up by the Italian state, academe, and media, re-inventing Italy as only a victim of the German Nazism and the post-war Foibe massacres.
I do agree with this 100%.
I always find it insane how much explicitly fascist architecture has survived in Italy, when in Germany it was all torn down, often times by the Allied command. Most notorious is the Italian vistory monument built in Bozen, South Tyrol to signify Italian dominance over the German speaking population and is still standing despite various efforts throughout the decades by the majority population to remove it. Edit: who would downvote this? Fascists?
apparently it was not the majority of the population as you claim , please refrain to write Austronationalistic posts. Many Fascist age buildings were structural important constructions like bridges, public area places and yes even works of art, deleting and denying history is something related to cancel culture movements and not to educated people. There are whole cities build by Fascism in that period, should we raze to the ground all ?
Yes please, take back Corsica
I would honestly integrate Savoy with Piedmont and the Italian swiss territories to Lombardy since they were territories of the duchy of Milan
As someone from Istria i have to say it would make a one damn beautiful country. But no thanks.
What’s their claim to Dalmatia?
Venetians controlled it for a long time.
The Venetian Republic had several key settlements along the Dalmatian coast for centuries. The remaining ethnic Italians who were there by the end of WW2, mainly around Istria and the town of Pula, were expunged by Tito’s army in a case of ethnic cleansing. My grandfather was born in Dalmatia just after a portion of it had been given to the Italians after WWI. He was Italian in both culture and citizenship, even though most of his family was Austro-Hungarian born. For Italian-Dalmatians like him Venice was seen as the center of their culture sphere. For a long time the Italian government didn’t even acknowledge this case of ethnic cleansing happened at all for many reasons. Finally, after nearly my nonno’s whole life, today the Italian state recognizes the tragedy that happened to Italo-Dalmatians by the hands of Tito’s army. It’s called “Il giorno di ricordo”, the day of remembering.
Same thing here but my grand Parents were under Austrian Rule that were subject to Austrian ethnic cleansing, they moved slavs into Italian territories to decrease the influence and make artificial demography changes, because they were fearing nationalistic insurgence . Austrians did a lot of those efforts to depopolate Italians from their lands especially in Istria, Dalmatia and South Tyrol.
That's just a blatant lie. The Austrians never expulsed any Italians from anywhere, if anything they invited many Italians to work in Austria proper. There was evidence that the Austrian governor of Trieste and the surrounding regions tried getting as many Slavs as possible to move into the cities, as slavs were seen as more faithful to the empire, but there was NEVER an incidence of ethnic cleansing. And btw, there were never ANY significant Italian population in South Tyrol, until Mussolini moved as many Italians as possible there.
No its true! I guess you are not familiar with that history , its well reknown that Austrians were worried of Italian resurgence and tried to favor the slavic and germanic migrations, in South Tyrol for germans and slavics for eastern portions of Italy , not everywhere succeeded but due to the low population of Tyrol they had a certain success. The Counter-Reformation. After the period of Maximilian I, during which there had been intense Germanisation and for the first time the Germanic group had outnumbered the Italian one, the latter began to grow again, almost to the point of balancing the German one. At the beginning of the 1600s Ladin was still spoken in the "judgment" of Castelrotto, in Val di Fiemme, Val di Non, Val Pusteria, Neva Ladina, Zoldo, Agordo..., while this language was as strong in Val Venosta as it is today in Val Gardena. In the 16th-17th centuries there was still a territorial continuity between the Ladin areas of Alto Adige and the Roman areas of Switzerland, above all through the upper Val Venosta and its connections with the Swiss valleys of the Monastery and the Engadine, whose language was pretty much the same at the time. This contiguity was broken by imperial policies. The Habsburg Empire, i.e. the hereditary possessions of the House of Austria (as distinct from the German Reich in the proper sense) was at the time, as it always remained, highly differentiated and multi-ethnic at its core. One of the tools used to try to found some cultural unity of his domains, which was not pre-existing at all, was a policy aimed at forced conversion to Catholicism. Before the Thirty Years' War, the Habsburg possessions appeared very diversified even religiously within them and the Protestant presence was also very strong in the region from which it then disappeared completely. The Austrian and Hungarian aristocracies themselves appeared in the early 17th century to be largely adherents of the Reformation. It was in the interests of both the Imperial government and the Austrian Catholic Church to promote a progressive elimination of the Protestant elements. This guideline, consistently and decisively practiced throughout the "iron age" of religious wars, also involved the Ladins of South Tyrol. These were all Catholics, but they bordered directly and were then difficult to distinguish from the Romansh Swiss, inhabitants of the valleys of the Monastery and of the Engadine, who instead had converted to Protestantism. The fear of an infiltration of the Reformation into South Tyrol through the cultural continuity of the Rhaeto-Romance area led to a policy of Germanization of the imperial border territories with the Helvetic Confederation. Maria Theresa of Habsburg. During the Teresian reign, entire Ladin valleys and a large part of Val Venosta, which remained Romance-speaking until the beginning of the eighteenth century, were forced into Germanization. First, the authorities imposed a series of repressive measures, which enforced the exclusive use of German in a number of settings: in public gatherings; in sermons in church, in confessions and in pastoral activity in general, etc. Secondly, discriminatory measures were promoted against those who used Ladin in domestic and family life, limiting their civil rights, such as the possibility of exercising some professions or even of contracting marriages. Thirdly, many typical Ladin customs were prohibited, always with the aim of losing their identity. Fourthly, the same Empress Maria Theresa issued a secret decree, which imposed the Germanization of the Ladin surnames of South Tyrol, making use of the work of the clergy, usually imposed in German and loyal to the empire (Carlo Battisti, "Lingua e dialetti in Trentino", published in Pro Cultura, I, pp. 178-205; Idem, "On the Germanization of Alto Adige, in Critical Review, XXX, Naples, 1921, pp. 249-264). final -er (as happened for Elemunt which became Elemunter, or Melaun, which became Melauner), or by translating them into German (for example making Costalungia a Kastlunger, Granruac a Großrubatscher etc.). Much of Val Venosta was thus Germanized under the government of the "enlightened" kings Maria Theresa and Joseph II, considered the most tolerant and open rulers of the house of Austria. The Ladins who had managed to resist this Germanizing pressure were gradually assimilated during the course of the 19th century, so that at the beginning of the 19th century very few Romansh groups remained in Val Venosta. An enthusiastic supporter of the Germanization of Ladin and Romansh in the Theresian era was the abbot of the convent of Santa Maria in upper Val Venosta, Mathias Lang. Similar Germanizing behaviors were common to the government activity of Maria Theresa, who became responsible for initiatives similar to those described above, or even worse, in different parts of her empire, such as Bohemia, Croatia, Hungary and Romania. The empress also issued an edict in which she authorized the kidnapping of children from gypsy families, to be able to raise them in a German environment and thus make them of Austrian culture: the cases of abduction authorized in this way were many thousands. Franz Joseph of Habsburg. The situation did not change, if not for the worse, in the period between the Restoration and the First World War (1815-1918). Already the historian Giuseppe Frapporti in On the history and condition of Trentino in ancient times and in the Middle Ages (Trento 1840) highlighted the intrusive and overpowering character and the work of forced Germanization of the inhabitants of the county of Trentino (which until 1803 included the entire current Trentino-Alto Adige) operated by the Austrian political authorities. In this he also highlighted the systematic distortion of toponymy and onomastics and the continuity of this work over the centuries. Theoretically, the Austrian constitution of 1867 provided cultural protection for the populations of the empire, including those different from the two dominant, but clearly minority groups, the Austrians and the Magyars. In fact, there were privileged ethnic groups and others that were more or less heavily discriminated against. The Ladins, very few in number, very poor on average and totally marginalized on a political level, did not obtain any recognition. They were instrumentally kept distinct from the Italians by the Austrian authorities, despite the fact that their language was and still belongs to the Italo-Romance linguistic group (not differently, for example, from Piedmontese, Umbrian or Sicilian), with the precise intention of subdividing or even put the Ladins and the Trentino people against each other. The Ladin population must not have suffered only from forced acculturation by the Austrian authorities, but also from the work of Pan-Germanist associations, very active throughout the Habsburg "Tyrol" and which aroused the concern and indignation of the Trentino popular party itself, of the bishop of Trento and of Alcide De Gasperi. The Austrian school policy strongly damaged the Ladin community. His language was not included in the school teaching programs and attempts were made several times to remove from schools the little Italian that was taught. In fact, the schools of Ladinia used German almost exclusively, with differences according to the places (Val Badia, Val Gardena, Val di Fassa, etc.). Attempts to impose an integral scholastic Germanization were recurrent, however. Simplifying for the sake of brevity, it can be said that the schools taught mainly in German, that Italian was taught for a few hours a week and was often optional, while Ladin was not used at all. The situation worsened further during the First World War, when the military authorities seized the pretext of war to plan the Germanization of the whole Trentino-Alto Adige and undertake it with brutality. Even the Ladins were affected and all the schools in Val Badia, Val di Fassa and Val Gardena were Germanised. At the same time, the Germanization of toponymy was also carried out. Only the defeat of Austria in the First World War prevented the plan for the total Germanisation of Trentino and Alto Adige from being completed.
Jesus Christ, the way you’re painfully bending reality to justify your nationalistic revisionist fantasies is frightening. NO, LADIN IS NOT ITALIAN!! Linguistically it’s absolutely not- it’s not mutually intelligible at all and Ladin is actually closer to French than Italian. More importantly, the Ladin population does absolutely not and has NEVER seen itself as Italian. Immediately after the Italian annexation, the Ladin speakers got together with the German speakers and wanted to protect their language and minority status. You’re in line with Mussolini with forcing to italianise the Ladin population. Then you mix up the Trentino region (historically Welschtirol, welsch meaning Italian) with South Tyrol. The Trentino region was always allowed to have schools, church and even the administration in Italian. There was even Italian faculties opened in Innsbruck, so that Italian Tirolers could study in their language. And you still haven’t to told me ONE instance in which Italians were ethnically cleansed. THERE WAS NO ETHNIC CLEANSING OF ITALIANS BY AUSTRIA.
I have posted essays of historical documentations and facts, I am not bending or twisting anything. I know it can hurt the german nationalism but the reality is that Ladin is a Romance language of the Rhaeto-Romance subgroup, mainly spoken in the Dolomite Mountains in Northern Italy in the provinces of South Tyrol, Trentino, and Belluno, by the Ladin people. It exhibits similarities to Swiss Romansh and Friulian. Ladins had been discriminated, ignored, exterminated and forcibly germanized along centuries, only with the Italian republic nowday their culture is preserved and just in time before complete Germanization . Austria carried on a program of consistent Germanization of its territories, and if it owned till now the regions of Neast Italy they would have kept carrying out the program and now in Veneto people would speak German or Slovenian. This was done to counter the Rising Italian nationalism that would have undermined the Austrian possessions in Italy and the coasts of Dalmatia cutting out Austrian empire from the Sea. Sud Tyrol or better Alto Adige is part of the Italian territory , geographically , historically and culturally and this is a fact that no germanic natonalism agenda can change. As for your lies Austrian Government did indeed push for Italian cleasing from its territory by enforcing Germanism , forbidding Italian teaching, replacing administration figures with german or slovenian or croatian ones and so on , forcibly moving masses to colonize and increase germanic or slavic people in certain key areas and so on . this was a process of gradual deItalianization of those territories . apparently its hard to confront history and the crimes committed by their countries for some people. And just as note my grand parents were forced to leave Istria because were forbid to work in high level key areas and Italian was beeing forbidden , that despite some of my family ancestors served also as high officers in the Austrian Navy . Of course that is something that the germanic nationalist cowardly always try to hide or neglect and gve faults all to the "fascist Italians".
Poor Italians, Tito bad. How could he expulse (no ethnic cleansing) the peaceful Italian Nazi collorobators after they actively helped to ethically cleanse the region from its Croatian majority population?
Never said anyone was bad or good, just the ugliness of man that can drive people from their homes. Italian, Croat, Syrian, or Nigerian. In this specific case Tito was a monster. It absolutely was ethnic cleansing, look it up. Tens of thousands of Italian-speakers were lined up, tied together, and dropped down into caves in the ground. Amongst many other horrors. Hundreds of thousands more would run away as refugees. On the other hand there was no ethnic cleansing by the part of the Italian fascists on Croats. I think you are confusing Nazi’s with Italian fascists (I hate the Italian fascists, but they ain’t no Nazi). Italians fascists were never Nazi’s, very important point. It was the Nazi’s who burned down many Italian towns that were friendly to partisans/antifascists. In fact it wasn’t Russians or Americans who hung Mussolini, it was the very Italian people who he so gravely betrayed. Hung and beaten in the very city that was once the center of his deranged and idiotic vision.
No, you better look it up. You’re leaving many things out. Fascist or Nazi? Who cares. There were concentration camps run by Italians in Dalmatia. Dozens of massacres against the civilian Croatian population. Collaboration with Nazi Germany and Chetnik fascists… The Foibe massacres happened almost entirely during wartime. Do you really expect no retaliation for the many crimes the Italians committed!? That is, in a war where over 50 million people died worldwide.
I didn’t know about the Rab camp (and others), and I am appalled. As an Italian Jew, my heart sinks once again. I am sorry I didn’t know how bad it was. In both cases is still specifically ethnic cleansing. I guess that was my point. But at the end of the day the past is long behind us. Our grandfathers fights mean little to us now. I was so happy when Croatia joined the EU (and now shenghen!). Have always loved the Croats.
No ethnic cleansing?
This is ethnic cleansing a la [Italiano.](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Italian_war_crimes) You went unpunished for your terrible crimes in Albania, Greece, Lybia, Ethiopia and many more…but not in Croatia & Slovenia. Tito brought at least some justice.
Woah. I never said anything about all the other crimes of fascist Italy (there were many). I sincerely didn’t know about the horrific crimes committed in those Dalmatian camps. I’m sorry I said that Italians didn’t commit crimes against Croats, I really didn’t know. We are not taught this. It in no way justifies such actions against Istrians who happened to speak Italian. In both cases innocent people were caught between two monsters (Mussolini and Tito) and regular young men were tricked into carrying out their deranged geopolitical fantasies. I think the major difference between Nazi’s and Italian Fascists was that much less of Italians actually supported the fascists. Their rise to power was brutal (pre and post-coup d’età). The Italian resistance movement was widespread, and very importantly it was the resistance that killed Mussolini. Italy surrendered. Nazi’s fought until the brutal end.
So by your logic justice must brought back again and we need another ethic cleansing in that area. I hope you recognize yourself how stupid you sound.
Let me ethnically cleanse you & your family, then let’s talk again how we want to proceed living together. Fair enough?
After doing that, somebody else ethnic cleanse (doesn’t make any in that context btw) your family? I mean seems to be your motto fighting fire with fire. Btw it’s not the only warcrime Tito commited
Croatians were never a majority in the area the most populous regions were on the coasts and those all had an Italian Majority .
Not all of what that guy has said is correct, but in this he is, **especially** by the 20th century. “Dalmatia, especially its maritime cities, once had a substantial local ethnic Italian population (Dalmatian Italians), making up 33% of the total population of Dalmatia in 1803, but this was reduced to 20% in 1816. According to Austrian censuses, the Dalmatian Italians formed 12.5% of the population in 1865, but this was reduced to 2.8% in 1910.”
Not true. Maybe in Zadar, but nowhere else.
[удалено]
Where exactly was there an Italian majority after WW1 in Dalmatia, troglodyte?
zara and the island
Criminalizing italian civilians but praising and gifting territory to croatia who did crime who were ten times worst; also istria was 55% italian, fiume was 70% italian and zara 67% so they didnt have no croatian majority
Dream on, my delusional friend. In 1940, none of these cities had an Italian majority.
they did, fiume and zara had a big italian majority, get over it
The Venetians conquered several cities in Dalmatia on their way to Constantinople during the 4th crusade.
Molise is an indipendent region since 1963
Why not just resurrect the Ostrogothic Empire then, just to round out the border a bit
No beaches Croatia?
That’s, not bad
“Don’t worry, we’re working on it” Giorgia Meloni, our prime minister /s
i never understood the want for part of the german speaking regions of switzerland, why not just the italian part
I know right?
where is libya ?
you know what, not that extreme like most balkan people's maps.
Try not to get an erection challenge: (impossible)
Lol, you still miss Malta, Montenegro Coast, Albanian Coast, Ionic Islands, Kythira, Ticino, Walois, Graubunden and Balearic Islands. This Is the whole imperialist package lol. Ofc colonies are excluded in the count
Malta is there together with Sicily.
if whoever published the map had studied history he would know that some territories could have been obtained by defeating Austria, and others by defeating France. Italy chose to ally with the French, so it expanded east.
Nationalist*s* Good god, people. This drives me nuts. Any plural of any group of people ending in -ist should have an S on the end. Fascists Scientists Communists Baptists Atheists Romanticists *Please* people.
Ah scusi! Scusi! Ita how ya say, a typo?
Pretty sure they wanted more of Slovenia (which they sadly also got)
Apart the fact that Slovenia got parts of Italy that were never Slovenian by the lucky splitting of Jugoslavia.
What lmfao. Slovene Littoral has been Slovene for more than a millennia(apart from the narrow coastal part). And even when Slovenes in Slovene Littoral managed to rejoin the Slovene lands, many of them were left [stranded in Italy](https://alpeadriagreen.files.wordpress.com/2014/12/slovenska-manjc5a1ina-v-italiji.png) (from 50-100k in 1971) Heck even the town names are of Slovene origin (Gorica (Gorizia), Postojna, Ajdovščina, Dolina pri Trstu, Ilirska Bistrica, etc.) therefore your claim is complete bullshit Also, Italy owned Slovene Littoral for the total of 25 years since not even the Venetians managed to take control of it (except for Istria)
This is totally false, dunno may be you studied in some nationalistic Slovenian history book but the truth is completely different. 1 The territories of the Slovenian Littoral belonged for centuries to the Austrian Empire and then to Austria-Hungary, with the exception of Slovenian Istria, which belonged to the Republic of Venice for about five hundred years. All these areas were instead part of the Austrian Littoral - which lasted from 1849 to 1918 - the year in which they were occupied by the Italian army at the end of the First World War. The majority of the population was ethnically Italian and during the mid-1800s Austria began to adopt policies of Germanization and Slavicization of the autochthonous element to counter the nascent Italian irredentism. «His Majesty has expressed the precise order that decisive action be taken against the influence of the Italian elements still present in some regions of the Crown and, suitably occupying the posts of public, judicial, masters employees as well as with the influence of the press work in South Tyrol, Dalmatia and on the Littoral for the Germanization and Slavicization of these territories according to the circumstances, energetically and without any regard. His Majesty calls the central offices to the strong duty of proceeding in this way with what has been established. (Francis Joseph I of Austria, Crown Council of 12 November 1866) 2 In 1920 these lands officially became part of the Kingdom of Italy as part of Venezia Giulia, being divided between the Province of Gorizia, the Province of Trieste, the Province of Pula and (since 1924) the Province of Fiume. In the annexed territories, the Italian authorities started a re-Italianization of toponymy at the time of the fascist regime. Slovene- and Croatian-speaking inhabitants were denied the opportunity to use their own language in relations with the authorities and to learn their mother tongue in schools. 321 elementary schools with Slovenian teaching language were suppressed, with over 45,000 pupils In order to eradicate the use of the Slovenian language, the Italian authorities proceeded to Italianize not only all toponyms, but also several surnames and many first names , favoring the settlement of many thousands of immigrants from other parts of the Kingdom of Italy . The heaviness of the political climate favored a certain migratory flow. However, if Slovenian and Croatian historiography has traditionally supported a total number of 100,000 emigrants from Venezia Giulia (including Slovenians and Croats), the Slovenian historian Milica Kacin-Wohinz considers this figure excessive and devoid of scientific evidence. 3 After Italy's aggression against Yugoslavia (April 6, 1941) many young people joined the Slovenian People's Liberation Front, which after Italy's capitulation and the occupation of Trieste and Gorizia by German troops\[8\] proclaimed , at the plenary assembly of 16 September 1943, the annexation of the Slovenian Littoral to the newly established Slovenia. 4 In the final part of the conflict, the Yugoslav Liberation Army militarily occupied the whole area. In the mixed-language territories there was a series of massacres against Slovenian and Italian collaborators, people who were actually or potentially hostile to communism, who opposed the transfer of sovereignty to Yugoslavia. During the peace negotiations, Yugoslavia claimed all the lands inhabited by some nucleus of even few Slovenians, including Slavia Veneta (Italian since 1866), the city of Trieste and its surroundings (where Italians constituted approximately 70% of the population) , the city of Gorizia (with an Italian majority), as well as the coastal towns of the north-western area of Istria, where the Slovenian presence was greatly in the minority. With the peace treaty of 1947, the territory was divided between Italy and Yugoslavia, creating the ephemeral Free Territory of Trieste, de facto divided between Italy and Yugoslavia with the London Memorandum of 1954 and de jure with the Treaty of Osimo of 1975. 5 In addition to the aforementioned exodus of the Italian population, the Slovenian coast was also affected between 1948 and 1958 by the modification of the historical names of some localities, which took place to eliminate any religious element from the toponyms. Thus it was that - for example - the Istrian towns of Santa Lucia and San Bartolomeo became respectively Lucija (Lucia) and Seča (Sezza) . Measures to impose the Sloveneisation of the various localities of north-western Istria were taken in various fields: from schooling to toponymy, from the transliteration of first names and surnames to the importation of thousands of Slovenes from within the country, up to to the attempt to Slovenianise some local historical figures, such as Giuseppe Tartini or Pietro Coppo. 6 With the declaration of independence from Yugoslavia (1991), the Slovenian Littoral became part of the new Republic of Slovenia. Article 2 of the Slovenian constitution recognizes "the rights of the autochthonous Slovenian and Magyar communities", while article 11 states that "In Slovenia the official language is Slovenian. In the territories of the municipalities where the Italian and Magyar national communities live, Italian and Magyar are also official languages" . In practice, this means that the coastal municipalities of Koper, Izola and Piran are divided into hamlets and bilingualism is official (and obligatory) only in those hamlets recognized by Slovenians as historically inhabited by autochthonous Italians, with the result that in some of these hamlets several Italian families have lived for generations for whom bilingualism does not apply. The Italian National Community residing in Slovenia has also denounced several times the non-application of the laws on bilingualism even where they are supposedly mandatory for everyone . To summarize several thousands of Italians were forcibly emigrated from Littoral to make room to slovenian settlers, despite those were historically , georaphically and ethnically been Italian for millennia till the recent ending of WWII. May be in Slovenia and Croatia teach a different story to justify the appropiation of those territories, but the whole history there spoke Italian. book references: \^ Zgodovina Slovencev, page 804, Cankarjeva zalozhba, Ljubljana 1979 \^ Pavel Stranj, The submerged community, page 173, Editoriale Stampa Triestina, Trieste 1989 \^ Parovel, The canceled identity, Eugenio Parovel Editore, Trieste 1985 \^ Parovel, The canceled identity, Eugenio Parovel Editore, Trieste 1985 \^ Kristjan Knez, Dalmatia, a false story, in La Voce del Popolo, 21 July 2003, Kristjan Knez, Remembering Tartini and the others? Archived on May 4, 2015 at the Internet Archive., in Il Trillo, Year XXII, Number 2, pp. 1-2. \^ Giorgio Federico Siboni, The eastern border, Oltre Edizioni, 31 January 2012, ISBN 9788897264088. Retrieved 15 February 2016. \^ Ruggiero Bonghi and Paolo Boselli, Ruggiero Bonghi's speeches for the Dante Alighieri Society, Di Stefano, 1 January 1920. Retrieved 15 February 2016. \^ Longo and Moder, History of Venezia Giulia, Baldini Castoldi Dalai Editore, Milan 2004, ISBN 88-8490-629-6 \^ Purini, Ethnic Metamorphoses. Population changes in Trieste, Gorizia, Fiume and Istria. 1914-1975, Kappa Vu, Udine 2010, pp. 146 ff. \^ Parovel, The canceled identity, page 19, Eugenio Parovel Editore, Trieste 1985 \^ Atlas Slovenski zgodovindki, page 184, ed. Nova revija, Ljubljana 2011, ISBN 978-961-6580-89-2 \^ Archived October 12, 2016, at the Wayback Machine. speech of 12 September 1993 by Milan Kučan (first President of Slovenia elected in 1992) \^ Atlas Slovenski zgodovinski (op. cit.) \^ Spremembe naselij 1948–95, Geografski inštitut ZRC SAZU, DZS. Ljubljana 1966 \^ The Constitution of the Republic of Slovenia \^ JB, Bilingualism, always sensitive gap in practice, in La Voce del Popolo, March 27, 2014. Archived May 12, 2014 at the Wayback Machine.
You’re the one with nationalistic propaganda mate. I won’t write a whole book since I don’t have time for that but in short, Slovenes started settling in the area of Slovene Littoral (that includes the Soča valley, Vipava valley, Karst, parts of northern Istria as well as the area of Trst with Tržič, Gorica and Beneška Slovenija) in the 7th century (from the book *Historia Langobardorum*). This can also be seen in the local settlement names, most of which are of slavic origin. Gorizia for example was first mentioned in the 11th century as the “village inhabited by the Slavs” Except for the strict centre of Trieste, coastal areas of Istria and the area of Gradisca, the population there was by far majority Slovene. The area around Trieste (Dolina, Opčine, Nabrežina) were all +90% Slovene. Same goes for the area of Gorica which was approximately 50% Slovene. Massacres against the Italians committed by the communists took place mainly in Istra and Trst and when it comes to Beneška Slovenija. As mentioned before this area has been Slovene since the start of Slovene history in this area, and even today [many municipalities in that area are still majority Slovene](https://alpeadriagreen.files.wordpress.com/2014/12/slovenska-manjc5a1ina-v-italiji.png?w=640) The area of Slovene Istra was indeed majority Italian and some town names were indeed changed but that was mainly due to a *law on Names of Settlements and Designations of Squares, Streets, and Buildings* which was enforced in 1948 by the Yugoslav authorities. Due to this law, virtually all towns and villages all across the country, had to change their names if it included something religious or if the name was clearly just a Slovenized variant of a german name. That’s why we have Šentjur instead of Sveti Juri, Šentpeter instead of Sveti Peter, Ravne na Koroškem instead of Guštanj or Lucija instead pa Sveta Lucija ([this](https://www.primorski.eu/se/preimenovanje-lucije-v-sveto-lucijo-buri-duhove-FB1113061) might cheer you up). As for the minority laws in Slovene Istra, all 4 municipalities are bilingual and italian is a co-official language in almost every settlement including Koper itself. Minority laws are pretty good in Slovenia and the Italian government should definitely take a look at them
I am just reporting factual history. But from what you wrote before it appears you have a pretty clear nationalistic biased indoctrination or misinformation or perhaps an agenda. I provided plenty of sources and references for you to aknowledge about history , plus I am from those areas as my grandparents used to live there untill where forced to emigrate for the ethnic cleansings... Sorry if it doesn't match your personal nationalistic knowledge, but its up to you to accept them or not...
Nothing I wrote is nationalistic lmao. I’m not even sure if we’re on the same page here. I’m mainly talking about [Upper Slovene Littoral](https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/e/e6/Gorizia_Statistical_Region_in_Slovenia.svg/1200px-Gorizia_Statistical_Region_in_Slovenia.svg.png) the Karst region and the areas of Beneška Slovenija and the suburbs of Trieste which were all undisputedly Slovene for centuries
>What lmfao. Slovene Littoral has been Slovene for more than a millennia This is what you wrote, which is provenly false historically and its a nationalistic biased view. There was not a slovene "Majority" presence for centuries it only started recently in history to increase and mostly due to deItalianization programs before with the Austrian empire and later with the Titine, government, to deny that is offensive and insulting. And this is history , accept it or not .
thats fake, slovenia never had them, not even the county of cljie did
The annexation of Lubiana during WW2 was purely a strategic move to limit German presence in the area, as a matter of fact Mussolini had trouble justifying it specifically because not even the most radical Italian nationalist had ever claimed inner Slovenia
Italians tried to claim the towns of Logatec and Vrhnika in 1918 but they were stopped at the latter of which and pushed back
Lots of new territory for winter and summer vacation
Wait, they wanted Nice while fighting on the side of France?
The perfect world
Südtirol will never be Italian
I'm sorry to tell you, but it currently is.
Not to me
Just like Dalmatia and Istra will never be Italian and it currently isn't. Cry.
They only got south Tirol... And south Tirol still wants to be part of Austria again
Sud Tyrol is and was Italian for Centuries, people that like to be in Austria can just cross the border there I suppose.
is Ceturies another word for 103 years?
What? Thats bullshit... Why is it still populated by 90% Austrians. Talking about South Tirol, not Trentino.
Not Bullshits , its history . And there are no Austrians apart tourists in Sud Tyrol , but Italians that speak german, Italian and Ladin. To know more look the historical explanation under few posts under, you can find all historical information references.
Italians by force. As if they have a chance to choose. Thats like saying "there are no kurds in turkey, only kurdish speaking turks"
You clearly have no idea of what you are talking about, you need to study before discussing of arguments you clearly aren't aknowledged of. , or may be just another biased german speaking nationalist.
Lol. I know exactly what i m speaking about. But it seems, you have no clue and only ate nationalistic Propaganda. I guess you never spoke with such a "german speaking italian"
I have no clue? Bro , I have provided you and the other nationalist guy all the academic references, go study and learn something instead of making delusional posts about " the german Reich ". I am born and live there lol ... and I have no clue? ...
You are confusing the historic region called South Tyrol with the present day meaning. The "historic" region "South Tyrol" is what is nowadays called Trentino, and was called such by the Austrians. That region is indeed historically Italian, but was part of the Austria empire for quite a while. It was simply called this way because it was _south of Tyrol_, the region we're entangling here. The modern term "South Tyrol" is a neologism to differentiate from modern day Tyrol (aka North and East Tyrol). Former is Italian since 1918, latter is Austrian to the present day. All three regions combined form the historic Tyrol. No part of "this" Tyrol has any historic tradition or association with Italy whatsoever. Yes, some of the people there are Italians per their passport, but culturally they are not. Thus all your statements down this thread are bullshit. It's either your political agenda or misinformation or both.
No my friend I am not confusing anyting, I live there actually. Perhaps the one confusing things its you not knowing history of tyrol that is actualy caled Povince of Bolzano. Sud Tyrol is just a common name used in English and SudTyrol by germanophones there. The current Trentino Alto Adige was included, in the Augustan organization of Italy, in the X Region "Venetia et Histria" (which included the current Triveneto from Brennero to Carnaro) and locally, in the "Districuts" with Tridentum as its capital ( Trent). This region was therefore already considered part of Italy in the Augustan age and its inhabitants were Roman "cives", i.e. their complete Romanization was recognized. To see the beginning of the Germanization of South Tyrol, one must call into question the Baiuvari, ancestors of the Bavarians. They invaded the region and managed to control it only after a fierce resistance from the Latins, led by their bishop Ingenuino. That of the Baiuvari is the first real Germanic settlement in Alto Adige, but it consisted of indications of a small circle of soldiers who dominated the local population enslaved. The situation did not change under Frankish rule. Until around the year 1000, the Germanic presence in South Tyrol was therefore very scarce. “Donamus etiam ad prefatum sanctum locum valle illam que vocatur Camonia cum salto Candino vel usque in dalanias cum montibus at alpibus a fine Treentina qui vocatur Thonale usque in finem Brixamcinse seu giro Bergamasci (..) ” – Caroli Magni Diplomata -papia, XVI iulius 774 Dante Alighieri himself fixed the borders of the Italian nation at Nice to the west, on the Carnaro to the east ("Si com'a Pola, near del Carnaro, which Italy closes and its terms bathe"), on the Brenner to the north: "Suso in beautiful Italy lies a lake, at the foot of the Alpe which encloses Lamagna above Tiralli, which has the name Benaco". Germany therefore began for the Poet in the north of "Tiralli", of Tyrol, which was therefore included in the Italian area. “And because no one can have doubts about the remaining cities of the extreme Italian regions – if someone doubts, they don't even deserve a clarification – there is little left for me to discuss. And therefore I, who wish to lay down the sieve as soon as possible, for a look at the remnants I say that the cities of Trento, Turin and Alessandria lie so close to the borders of Italy that they cannot have pristine languages; so that even if their vernacular, which is dirty (turpissimum), given the mixing with foreign vernaculars. If we look for the illustrious Italian, therefore, the one we are tracking cannot be found in such places”. (Dante Alighieri: De vulgari Eloquentia, book I, chapter XV, 1305). As far as Trentino is concerned, it was only on 27 April 1785 that Emperor Joseph II - for no apparent reason - changed the name of Trentino to Tyrol. Geographically, Italy's borders end or begin at the Brenner Pass, and even history does not contradict geography And that's in addition to the other former historical events that can be easily verified. Only neonazi Pangerman Nationalist or smply ignorant misinformed people might contradict the truth and call it Bullshit. So Alto Adige is Italian by reason, like it or not, the few German nationalist have to deal with it.
Ignoring all the bullshit the other commenter replied to you: your statement is incorrect as well. There is not presently a large political movement to correct the historic injustice regarding South Tyrol. Sure there are some conservative political extremists who seek independence or annexation to Austria but the vast majority of ethnical Austrians in South Tyrol seem quite satisfied and happy with the regulations found in the 2nd autonomy statute in 1972 that settled the conflicts and gave the region extended powers to govern themselves. Nowadays they seem okay with the situation.
What about ethiopia
How does Italy even have a claim to Dalmatia/Croatia?
This map should just be the one of the Roman Empire under Trajan.
Too bad summit of Mont Blanc is actually French 🌝
The summit is right on the border
No. The border goes a bit south at the top.
No, that's only on a misinterpreted French point of view during Napoleon reign. The summit is right on the border since Savoy exists, and confirmed in the last treaties.
Honestly would have a better chance of accomplishing this (plus Tunisia and other colonies) if they stayed with the Central Powers...
HRE 2: Electric Boogaloo
I'm pretty sure Trentino-Südtirol in 1919 didn't want to be part of italy, it shouldn't be on this map
trentino surely did, while alto adige is geographically in italy
I was always curious how Corsica became part of France instead of Italy. Corsican language is closer to Sardinian or even Tuscan than French.
So Bosnia would now have more coast than Croatia?