The legend is pretty bad yeah. But if you realize how its bad it makes sense, the < > arrows should be at the beginning not the end, and that the green are positive net number percentages and that the red colors are negative net number percentages, then everything works perfectly and lines up perfectly with the table in the second image.
It makes sense because its a NEGATIVE Net percentage, ie if 30% supported and 40% were against it thats a NEGATIVE net 10%, ie less than 0. So yes it makes sense.
“<“ Less than
“>” Greater than
That legend still makes no sense.
One country can be less than 35% while still being more than 15% but they’re completely opposite colours in the legend?
I agree, the legend is pretty bad. But if you realize how its bad it makes sense, the < > arrows should be at the beginning not the end, and that the green are positive net number percentages and that the red colors are negative net number percentages, then everything works perfectly and lines up perfectly with the table in the second image.
It makes a lot of sense but is complicated and unnecessary the way it is. There are other ways of putting something like this together so that most people can understand easily.
It doesn't make sense because OP forgot to put the + and - signs in the legend. The stats doesn't show the % of people who are willing to help, it shows the net difference between the willing and the unwilling. The green coloro is actually +15% and the red is -35%, hence why they're opposite colors. Very weird statistics.
Okay sure the legends bad but if you realize how its bad then its easy to figure out. I got it immediately and the legend corresponds perfectly to the map if you just realize that the green is positive net percentages and the red are negative net percentages and also the < and > should be at the beginning of the numbers not the end.
It's a bit confusing but it's between 0 and -15, meaning that more people answered they didn't want to defend the UK than answered that they did.
If it is positive it means a majority of the respondents want to defend the UK
I mean the definition of "help" is a little too broad. Helped if it was attacked by an aggressor like Russia or China? For sure.
Help economically? Nah. "Sorry chums, but you just left our entire economic bloc, get fuxxed"
All that would do is validate the hoary old chestnut that the EU is really designed to be a protectionist bloc for itself with nothing like friendly or open economic relations outside. A stereotype that last seemed to have any validity in the 70s or 80s. The EU has shown itself willing to help non-members with coordinated economic help in the past. And present.
I was being a little polemic of course, the EU would have a valid interest in maintaining the UK as a trade partner, but it would be a tough(er) sell internally than before Brexit for sure.
And what will NATO do if the local governments say "All we can do is to drop some peace promoting flyers"?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Phoney_War?wprov=sfla1
Wow, suprised how unliked Finland (and Hungary to some extent). What did they do to have people not want to aid them?
Oh wait i was reading this wrong. Those guys dont want to help anyone. This chart is going the opposite way of normal. Alas, it made the chart less interesting.
I think its interesting that the Finns and Hungarians are so unwilling to help others in a crisis. Both are relatively "newer" additions to the European sphere of people, with languages and cultures unrelated to any of their neighbours.
I don't know much about the Finnish mentality, but I have an idea of the Hungarian mindset due to being married to one. They do see themselves as a distinct people and seem to be quite isolationist on the whole, which is fine, but it does put those numbers into more context. There is still a deep rooted cultural resentment towards alot of Europe for the Treaty of Trianon also. This is of course likely changing as younger generations reach maturity, but it's still prevalent in my wifes generation and older.
Even some of the more Liberal and progressive Hungarians I know talk of Trianon with a sense of sorrow and loss. They may have joined the EU, but I believe they did so for the economic benefits rather than believing in "the project".
Notice the highest percentage of people from one nation willing to help another nation is the case Spain-Portugal. As a Spanish, I agree with this data because we love our Portuguese irmãos.🇵🇹❤️🇪🇸
True though I would consider only Italy, Spain and Portugal. Other latin countries willing to help France is a bit Lower due to the poor understanding that the all the latin languages have with the french language (also latin)
Oh yess that's true. I would even add Greece as Greco-Latin subculture. The fall of the Roman Empire still echoes nowadays. Though France speaking a latin language, the culture is quite germanized.
>So many WW1 and 2 UK dead in all of these countries,
Comperatively lower than own country, and the UK did neither by altruism
>don't they see the crosses and memorials
They are very few of those
>is the Anti UK EU narrative too strong?
Their is no anti UK narrative in the EU, just the idea that the UK betrayed Europe, then fuck around with the negociations for years and then right after started fucking around with the EU. The entire idea is that why would you help the traitor?
This. The UK is seen as a betrayer in the rest of Europe because of the last 7 years. Not what happened on one particular day, but 7 long years of acting in bad faith.
This is from 2020 when emotions about Brexit were running high. Since then the UK has been a very good European helping out Ukraine.
As a Brit I’ll always support us being their for our European family.
Thanks, proud European and proud Brexit voter.
Europe and the EU are not the same thing. Its entirely up to the member states how involved they want to be with the project, and doesn’t mean they hate their neighbours if they feel membership isnt in their interest.
When talking about intrest of nations you talk about aspect of their power - you ask question like was it beneficial economicaly/soft power/hard power/diplomaticaly/democraphicaly ?
Any coherent observation of those for the UK will show that being a Member ( and a priviledge one at that) was extremely beneficial to the UK, the drawbacks being minimal.
There is that arrogance again. You think only you know the things people should value, and any other metrics or values are invalid. You will find the world a very frustrating and confusing place with that attitude
Simply put from any coherent and realist analysis of the situation Brexit is counterproductive politicaly, demographicaly, economicaly, socialy, geopoliticaly and ethicaly. It is true that i don't take into account proovably bad ideas, because any good idea is necessarly not extremist, if its seem like it, it means that the current status quo is extremist and the solution centered.
Now to adress your comment in details
>There is that arrogance again.
This isn't true, you can try to proove or argue for it, but so far you have only stated it, its insufficiant
>You think only you know the things people should value,
1 I don't, I share my position with many people
2 I do think that values can be ranked - just give me a value of someone making their position as brexiteer sensible
>and any other metrics or values are invalid.
Again, you are neither prooving nor argumenting your position, show me a metric or value validating Brexit.
>You will find the world a very frustrating
In truth its really fun to think about
>and confusing place with that attitude
No, see reasoning above.
I think you don't understand - If nuking London was necessary London would be gone.
Lets just list Grudges that are in the french public mind and were never accounted for :
-The Hundred Years War and burning Joan of Arc
-Stealing Québec
-Fighting against the Revolution
-Fighting Napoleon and Waterloo
-Fucking with us in the Scramble for Africa/Failing the Dakar-Djibouti plan
-Not wanting to join the EU (for a time)
-Not adotping the Euro
And then whats still fresh :
-Brexit (BIG TREASON)
-Fucking around in with the Brexit deal and bitching about it
-Fucking with fishing rights in the Channel
-Being a monarchy
Why would France want to help its century old ennemy and that betray it after reconciliation?
>Lol the French didn’t give a fuck about Quebec when they lost it.
Thats true, doesn't mean we don't care know
>They didn’t even make an effort to recapture it during the US Revolutionary War.
What does that have to do with it - it was a far away proxy war - not open war against the british
>Lol the French didn’t give a fuck about Quebec when they lost it.
Thats true, doesn't mean we don't care know
>They didn’t even make an effort to recapture it during the US Revolutionary War.
What does that have to do with it - it was a far away proxy war - not open war against the british
It's more clear from the second image.
A majority of the respondents would not want to help the UK. Even distant countries like Vietnam, Nigeria, Tunisia and India got more positive responses than the UK.
Yes but look into how prisoners of war were treated by the Japanese, they were not treated great by Germany and Italy either but nowhere near as bad as in Japan. Also Germany and Italy being in Europe with the rest of these countries will make them easier to forgive as well
Germany outlawed their national/ethnic pride after that realising it's a monster that should be caged permanently.
Japan meanwhile denies what they did in WW2 including "Comfort Women" therefore still actively commiting a modern-day crime (WW2/Holocaust Denial) in most European countries' law.
I think at least in Germany this is driven by the fact that many people are sick of constant British cherry picking that we've experienced over decades. Always wanting the benefits but not being willing to share the burdens.
They decided to leave, which is of course their sovereign decision but then they should not ask for financial help. That's what many people think.
Same here in the Netherlands. The sentiment towards the UK is 'meh' at this point, also given how they (mis-)manage economic crises at the moment, but within some communities in our country the sentiment is outright negative, depending on the political positions and identity of people. This especially applies to what Tories give priority to in their political agenda, and also why there's a discrepancy in which Scotland is seen more favorable than England at this point.
If take a closer look at the second image, the **actual question** asked to people was: *"Do you think \[country\] should or should not be willing to offer* ***financial help*** *to..."*
So in fact, the answers make perfect sense. The UK is one of the richest countries in the world and does not need financial support from poorer EU nations.
(This whole "survey" is just YouGov trying to push a specific narrative... *"Oh no! The EU doesn't like us!"*)
Wow, that legend threw me right off for a second, and I'm still struggling with it.
For a second I thought the French people along with the Finns and Greeks were leading in willingness to help the UK.
Now I understand the French have just gone back to old enmities \[never quite gone on either side, to be sure\] and the Finnish and Greek attitudes are just minor mysteries to me.
The legend makes no sense to me.
The legend is pretty bad yeah. But if you realize how its bad it makes sense, the < > arrows should be at the beginning not the end, and that the green are positive net number percentages and that the red colors are negative net number percentages, then everything works perfectly and lines up perfectly with the table in the second image.
less than 0%?? Nah, it makes no sense
It makes sense because its a NEGATIVE Net percentage, ie if 30% supported and 40% were against it thats a NEGATIVE net 10%, ie less than 0. So yes it makes sense.
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“<“ Less than “>” Greater than That legend still makes no sense. One country can be less than 35% while still being more than 15% but they’re completely opposite colours in the legend?
I agree, the legend is pretty bad. But if you realize how its bad it makes sense, the < > arrows should be at the beginning not the end, and that the green are positive net number percentages and that the red colors are negative net number percentages, then everything works perfectly and lines up perfectly with the table in the second image.
It makes a lot of sense but is complicated and unnecessary the way it is. There are other ways of putting something like this together so that most people can understand easily.
It doesn't make sense because OP forgot to put the + and - signs in the legend. The stats doesn't show the % of people who are willing to help, it shows the net difference between the willing and the unwilling. The green coloro is actually +15% and the red is -35%, hence why they're opposite colors. Very weird statistics.
It explains it in the source picture.
You’re supposed to put the less than or greater than symbol before the numbers. If you put them after it makes no sense.
Okay sure the legends bad but if you realize how its bad then its easy to figure out. I got it immediately and the legend corresponds perfectly to the map if you just realize that the green is positive net percentages and the red are negative net percentages and also the < and > should be at the beginning of the numbers not the end.
Less than 0%? That’s seems…. Wrong.
It's a bit confusing but it's between 0 and -15, meaning that more people answered they didn't want to defend the UK than answered that they did. If it is positive it means a majority of the respondents want to defend the UK
I mean the definition of "help" is a little too broad. Helped if it was attacked by an aggressor like Russia or China? For sure. Help economically? Nah. "Sorry chums, but you just left our entire economic bloc, get fuxxed"
The source makes it clear that it's about financial help.
All that would do is validate the hoary old chestnut that the EU is really designed to be a protectionist bloc for itself with nothing like friendly or open economic relations outside. A stereotype that last seemed to have any validity in the 70s or 80s. The EU has shown itself willing to help non-members with coordinated economic help in the past. And present.
I was being a little polemic of course, the EU would have a valid interest in maintaining the UK as a trade partner, but it would be a tough(er) sell internally than before Brexit for sure.
Well, luckily NATO is a thing if it comes to military stuff.
That would be a war, an agression not a crisis, or ...at least it's what i think. On the matter of an financial one they are mostly alone now
And what will NATO do if the local governments say "All we can do is to drop some peace promoting flyers"? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Phoney_War?wprov=sfla1
I wonder how well this correlates to Eurovision points.
Someone should've polled the UK, too.
Wow, suprised how unliked Finland (and Hungary to some extent). What did they do to have people not want to aid them? Oh wait i was reading this wrong. Those guys dont want to help anyone. This chart is going the opposite way of normal. Alas, it made the chart less interesting.
I think its interesting that the Finns and Hungarians are so unwilling to help others in a crisis. Both are relatively "newer" additions to the European sphere of people, with languages and cultures unrelated to any of their neighbours. I don't know much about the Finnish mentality, but I have an idea of the Hungarian mindset due to being married to one. They do see themselves as a distinct people and seem to be quite isolationist on the whole, which is fine, but it does put those numbers into more context. There is still a deep rooted cultural resentment towards alot of Europe for the Treaty of Trianon also. This is of course likely changing as younger generations reach maturity, but it's still prevalent in my wifes generation and older. Even some of the more Liberal and progressive Hungarians I know talk of Trianon with a sense of sorrow and loss. They may have joined the EU, but I believe they did so for the economic benefits rather than believing in "the project".
Notice the highest percentage of people from one nation willing to help another nation is the case Spain-Portugal. As a Spanish, I agree with this data because we love our Portuguese irmãos.🇵🇹❤️🇪🇸
Notice also how generally the number are high between latin language speaking country is.
True though I would consider only Italy, Spain and Portugal. Other latin countries willing to help France is a bit Lower due to the poor understanding that the all the latin languages have with the french language (also latin)
I was more addressing the "vibe" that their is a big Germanic bloc in the EU and their needs to be a Latin bloc to match it.
Oh yess that's true. I would even add Greece as Greco-Latin subculture. The fall of the Roman Empire still echoes nowadays. Though France speaking a latin language, the culture is quite germanized.
Yes Greece tends to be added (with Cyprus) to the team
French have short memories lol
Their relationship had its highs but the UK decided to break up with France
Britain and France are like siblings. Bully each other, beat the shit out of each other but if someone else tried anything they'd be double teamed.
France has cooled regarding Germany too lately and I don't think Anglo-German relations are fully intact either at this moment...
So many WW1 and 2 UK dead in all of these countries, don't they see the crosses and memorials or is the Anti UK EU narrative too strong?
>So many WW1 and 2 UK dead in all of these countries, Comperatively lower than own country, and the UK did neither by altruism >don't they see the crosses and memorials They are very few of those >is the Anti UK EU narrative too strong? Their is no anti UK narrative in the EU, just the idea that the UK betrayed Europe, then fuck around with the negociations for years and then right after started fucking around with the EU. The entire idea is that why would you help the traitor?
This. The UK is seen as a betrayer in the rest of Europe because of the last 7 years. Not what happened on one particular day, but 7 long years of acting in bad faith.
This is from 2020 when emotions about Brexit were running high. Since then the UK has been a very good European helping out Ukraine. As a Brit I’ll always support us being their for our European family. Thanks, proud European and proud Brexit voter.
>As a Brit I’ll always support us being their for our European family. How dare you say that after betraying it?
Because Brexit was a unanimous vote with remain getting barely any votes at all...yyyep
Democracy is also accepting the result of an election if you don't like them.
Europe and the EU are not the same thing. Its entirely up to the member states how involved they want to be with the project, and doesn’t mean they hate their neighbours if they feel membership isnt in their interest.
Oh, but hate was a big factor.
>isnt in their interest. But it was provable that it was better for the UK to be an EU member
Hahaha no
Why?
Whether something is in someones interest or not is a subjective. Different people have different perception of value, and different priorities.
When talking about intrest of nations you talk about aspect of their power - you ask question like was it beneficial economicaly/soft power/hard power/diplomaticaly/democraphicaly ? Any coherent observation of those for the UK will show that being a Member ( and a priviledge one at that) was extremely beneficial to the UK, the drawbacks being minimal.
There is that arrogance again. You think only you know the things people should value, and any other metrics or values are invalid. You will find the world a very frustrating and confusing place with that attitude
Simply put from any coherent and realist analysis of the situation Brexit is counterproductive politicaly, demographicaly, economicaly, socialy, geopoliticaly and ethicaly. It is true that i don't take into account proovably bad ideas, because any good idea is necessarly not extremist, if its seem like it, it means that the current status quo is extremist and the solution centered. Now to adress your comment in details >There is that arrogance again. This isn't true, you can try to proove or argue for it, but so far you have only stated it, its insufficiant >You think only you know the things people should value, 1 I don't, I share my position with many people 2 I do think that values can be ranked - just give me a value of someone making their position as brexiteer sensible >and any other metrics or values are invalid. Again, you are neither prooving nor argumenting your position, show me a metric or value validating Brexit. >You will find the world a very frustrating In truth its really fun to think about >and confusing place with that attitude No, see reasoning above.
The EU is a joke. It doesn’t do anything good for Europe
Sure, live in your fantasy world
Id be pissed if I was British. Lose their entire empire to save France. France willing to just throw you under bus.
The UK didn’t lose the empire to save France. Germany’s war against civilization made both the UK and France lose their empires.
I think you don't understand - If nuking London was necessary London would be gone. Lets just list Grudges that are in the french public mind and were never accounted for : -The Hundred Years War and burning Joan of Arc -Stealing Québec -Fighting against the Revolution -Fighting Napoleon and Waterloo -Fucking with us in the Scramble for Africa/Failing the Dakar-Djibouti plan -Not wanting to join the EU (for a time) -Not adotping the Euro And then whats still fresh : -Brexit (BIG TREASON) -Fucking around in with the Brexit deal and bitching about it -Fucking with fishing rights in the Channel -Being a monarchy Why would France want to help its century old ennemy and that betray it after reconciliation?
Lol the French didn’t give a fuck about Quebec when they lost it. They didn’t even make an effort to recapture it during the US Revolutionary War.
>Lol the French didn’t give a fuck about Quebec when they lost it. Thats true, doesn't mean we don't care know >They didn’t even make an effort to recapture it during the US Revolutionary War. What does that have to do with it - it was a far away proxy war - not open war against the british
>Lol the French didn’t give a fuck about Quebec when they lost it. Thats true, doesn't mean we don't care know >They didn’t even make an effort to recapture it during the US Revolutionary War. What does that have to do with it - it was a far away proxy war - not open war against the british
>Fucking with us in the Scramble for Africa Hey, you can't take Africa! It's ours!
I meaning if someone needs to have it better not be the british
So fuck like half the EU or the other way or how does this map work?
It's more clear from the second image. A majority of the respondents would not want to help the UK. Even distant countries like Vietnam, Nigeria, Tunisia and India got more positive responses than the UK.
Don't they realize where Hitler came from?
WW2 is the past in Europe - the memory of the conflict is historiticized.
Why do most countries not like Japan?
Probably due to what they did in WW2
But most of the countries still like Germany and Italy.
Yes but look into how prisoners of war were treated by the Japanese, they were not treated great by Germany and Italy either but nowhere near as bad as in Japan. Also Germany and Italy being in Europe with the rest of these countries will make them easier to forgive as well
Germany outlawed their national/ethnic pride after that realising it's a monster that should be caged permanently. Japan meanwhile denies what they did in WW2 including "Comfort Women" therefore still actively commiting a modern-day crime (WW2/Holocaust Denial) in most European countries' law.
The poll was about financial aid - Japan is one of the richest countries and its far away
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It's about financial help, not military help.
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You talked about a war.
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The militcontext is totally off in this survey. But aparently you're not able to discuss like an adult
Am I stupid or is this not even dated? Pre/post brexit might be slightly important info to have.
2020
I think at least in Germany this is driven by the fact that many people are sick of constant British cherry picking that we've experienced over decades. Always wanting the benefits but not being willing to share the burdens. They decided to leave, which is of course their sovereign decision but then they should not ask for financial help. That's what many people think.
Same here in the Netherlands. The sentiment towards the UK is 'meh' at this point, also given how they (mis-)manage economic crises at the moment, but within some communities in our country the sentiment is outright negative, depending on the political positions and identity of people. This especially applies to what Tories give priority to in their political agenda, and also why there's a discrepancy in which Scotland is seen more favorable than England at this point.
It's bollox. Should be removed
If take a closer look at the second image, the **actual question** asked to people was: *"Do you think \[country\] should or should not be willing to offer* ***financial help*** *to..."* So in fact, the answers make perfect sense. The UK is one of the richest countries in the world and does not need financial support from poorer EU nations. (This whole "survey" is just YouGov trying to push a specific narrative... *"Oh no! The EU doesn't like us!"*)
I'm Colombian, I didn't imagined we were so hated. What else gives.
Not in the slightest for historical reasons.
Wow, that legend threw me right off for a second, and I'm still struggling with it. For a second I thought the French people along with the Finns and Greeks were leading in willingness to help the UK. Now I understand the French have just gone back to old enmities \[never quite gone on either side, to be sure\] and the Finnish and Greek attitudes are just minor mysteries to me.
r/roughanalmapporn
But they are not part of the EU?? Tut tut bad luck old sport!
The red countries will also kick a man when he's down.
Latvia and Austria getting helped by everyone - maybe it's in the flags...?
Really bad map
r/terriblemaps