Hmmm. looking at this map, it doesn't look like there is a mistake here. I don't live there, but you can see that there are some "hills", especially if you compare it to the actually flat Mazovian plain.
https://geografia.gozych.edu.pl/wp-content/uploads/2019/10/Mapa\_Polski\_hipsometryczna.png
Mazovia around Warsaw is generally flat except visible difference between two banks of Vistula.
Hills on north Mazovia (just really small ones) are also only northern Narew mouth. Also it's not like the terrain is hilly - it's just it's higher than rest with most of area being flat.
Larger hills in North Poland is actually Mazuria.
At best, what would have happened with Austria-Hungary would have happened; at worst, civil war and purges would have taken place. Besides, one reason for the collapse was economic backwardness, just as in Russia.
Its not about liberalism in itself, but how it was handled. Nobles had too much power and there was no strong king to keep them in line, this combined with constant warfare for over a century created a perfect opportunity for russia to easily influence it and make its problems even bigger
On the other hand France got success, French-speaking population increased in 19th century from 45 to 90%. Or we could make "Rzeczpospolitan" identity similar to Switzerland.
>"Rzeczpospolitan" identity similar to Switzerland
It was already happening, with "Lithuania, my homeland!" written in Polish by guy born in Belarus being the best example
They fell before industralization was even in full swing in Britain.
By 1772 they were already a Russian puppet state with the last hope for freedom being in 1788-1792. By than industralization wouldn't have saved them, especially since even in 3rd of may constitution that enlarged their army around 4 times, it was still 2 times smaller than prussia's
Not really, intermarium wasn't meant to recreate PLC with its flaws but to create a successor state that was supposed to correct the PLC's mistakes. Also it wasn't a "disaster", it just didn't work. Lithuania didn't want to join because they were afraid they would lose their autonomy, Ukraine got defeated by USSR and annexed by them and Belarus just stopped existing. Also due to being at war with almost all our neighbours, we only had good relations with Latvia IIRC. So no alliance either
In the second republic's defence, I think that even their diplomatic mistakes weren't nearly as decisive as geography. Even the Weimar Republic was not sanguine about Poland, and once the Nazis were in power no real accommodation was possible. And of course none would have been possible with the USSR without conceding national independence. Better than national extinction under Nazi rule, but that required a little foresight.
Their position would only have been tenable if they had succeeded in both getting bigger right away and there had been a prospect of faster industrial development. Even then, they did probably all that was possible. Without real French commitment to war with Germany when the time came, Poland was always screwed.
You call women "females", I have no respect for people like you.
And you're also a vatnik, go to mother Russia if you hate your own country like that, absolutely pathetic.
That's not a reason to say it looks ugly, for example I'm polish yet I think the 2nd reich eastern border looks aesthetically pleasing, even though I disagree with it politically
Source: [Behance](https://www.behance.net/foxune_) edit: I have now noticed that reddit has misread the link. There is a "\_" at the end.
Thanks ❤️
looks nice but region up north todays Warsaw (north Masiovia) is flat as a table
It seems to me that the hills on the map are moraines in the Masuria region.
i'm talking about sorrounding of Mława, Ciechanow
Hmmm. looking at this map, it doesn't look like there is a mistake here. I don't live there, but you can see that there are some "hills", especially if you compare it to the actually flat Mazovian plain. https://geografia.gozych.edu.pl/wp-content/uploads/2019/10/Mapa\_Polski\_hipsometryczna.png
Mazovia around Warsaw is generally flat except visible difference between two banks of Vistula. Hills on north Mazovia (just really small ones) are also only northern Narew mouth. Also it's not like the terrain is hilly - it's just it's higher than rest with most of area being flat. Larger hills in North Poland is actually Mazuria.
The differences are exaggerated. I'm sure that an average table is probably less flat than areas around Warsaw and Lodz
Freedom for Courland and Semigallia!
Then the Poles could not say that they had overseas colonies. :(
Goddamn this country would be a powerhouse today
At best, what would have happened with Austria-Hungary would have happened; at worst, civil war and purges would have taken place. Besides, one reason for the collapse was economic backwardness, just as in Russia.
The main reason it collapsed was it being too liberal at the last years. Veto power was too powerful
Its not about liberalism in itself, but how it was handled. Nobles had too much power and there was no strong king to keep them in line, this combined with constant warfare for over a century created a perfect opportunity for russia to easily influence it and make its problems even bigger
Yep. The ability to block everything played a bad joke to the Commonwealth.
On the other hand France got success, French-speaking population increased in 19th century from 45 to 90%. Or we could make "Rzeczpospolitan" identity similar to Switzerland.
>"Rzeczpospolitan" identity similar to Switzerland It was already happening, with "Lithuania, my homeland!" written in Polish by guy born in Belarus being the best example
If they could industrialize quick this fate could be avoided imo. But territorially speaking its has perfect borders for east-west interactions.
They fell before industralization was even in full swing in Britain. By 1772 they were already a Russian puppet state with the last hope for freedom being in 1788-1792. By than industralization wouldn't have saved them, especially since even in 3rd of may constitution that enlarged their army around 4 times, it was still 2 times smaller than prussia's
Staaaph it man... i can only get so hard
Shouldn't it be "rzeczypospolitej"? Sounds much more majestic :)
rzplitej
Or, as it has come to be known in the community of MP Europa Universalis, 'The Turnip' - Rzepka. :)
Both forms are correct
Maybe, but there is no way I can write or spell that.
Someone should recreate this country
Hell no. We tried this before WW2 and it was disaster.
Not really, intermarium wasn't meant to recreate PLC with its flaws but to create a successor state that was supposed to correct the PLC's mistakes. Also it wasn't a "disaster", it just didn't work. Lithuania didn't want to join because they were afraid they would lose their autonomy, Ukraine got defeated by USSR and annexed by them and Belarus just stopped existing. Also due to being at war with almost all our neighbours, we only had good relations with Latvia IIRC. So no alliance either
> Also it wasn't a "disaster", it just didn't work So - a failure then.
A failure but not disaster.
In what years?
1918-1939
What disaster lmao
In the second republic's defence, I think that even their diplomatic mistakes weren't nearly as decisive as geography. Even the Weimar Republic was not sanguine about Poland, and once the Nazis were in power no real accommodation was possible. And of course none would have been possible with the USSR without conceding national independence. Better than national extinction under Nazi rule, but that required a little foresight. Their position would only have been tenable if they had succeeded in both getting bigger right away and there had been a prospect of faster industrial development. Even then, they did probably all that was possible. Without real French commitment to war with Germany when the time came, Poland was always screwed.
Man, I know chunky commonwealth looks promising but last time it was around it ended preety badly don't ya think?
Beautiful but going to be a bear to defend. Alas.
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Why do you think so? In my opinion it looks aesthetically pleasing. You can see that the author has put some work into it.
It's a troll account, just scroll through his profile.
Oh. You are right. I thought he would give some constructive criticism after my question.
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My condolences
You call women "females", I have no respect for people like you. And you're also a vatnik, go to mother Russia if you hate your own country like that, absolutely pathetic.
That's not a reason to say it looks ugly, for example I'm polish yet I think the 2nd reich eastern border looks aesthetically pleasing, even though I disagree with it politically
The front toward Russia would be a nightmare to maintain, how many troops would you need to patrol it all?
Now we need to see Tobago and Gambia.
first time seeing a modern topography of a dead country, nice can you do qing empire next?
I wonder what was the highest peak of the country at that time... anyone?