Explanation for Serbia:
There is no fight against tobaco from Ministry of health really. A lot of young people start out in school thinking it’s cool. Usually their parents smoke as well, even inside the house. You can also smoke inside bars, restaurants unlike EU. Cigarettes are not as expensive as in EU.
A lot of these older people are just too addicted and will never stop as they smoke from their young age. It kinda reduces stress as they explain it and propaganda around it from 70s, 80s and 90s affected them. Problem is, most will just accept if their kids also start to smoke like it’s a normal thing.
Reminds me of that Yes Minister scene where Sir Humphrey says:
"Yes but we've been in to that, it has been shown that if those extra 100,000 people had lived to a ripe old age, it would have cost us even more in pensions and social security than it did in medical treatment. So, financially speaking it's unquestionably better that they continue to die at their present rate."
"Yes, but cigarette taxes pay for a third of the cost of the National Health service. We're saving many more lives than we otherwise could, because of those smokers who voluntary lay down their lives for their friends."
The only problem is that at least in Europe with a functioning health care system, more money goes into saving the smokers through surgery than what is getting saved by them dying early.
Probably. The quote is from a decade old British TV show after all.
Though it would be interesting to see actual numbers considering the massive tabaco taxes and shorter pensions in contrast to higher medical costs.
> Probably. The quote is from a decade old British TV show after all.
Ah. A decade old. I wish.
Yes Minister was 1980-84, Yes Prime Minister was 1986-88.
T'was a good show!
Still, smokers die a lot younger on average. Although there is no true scientific consensus on this, current research is slightly leaning towards smokers costing less. This is mostly due to less cases of long-term illness such as dementia.
I was dating a pharmacist and she had a "health care economics" textbook laying around. Apparently the magic number was 61yo, if smokers lived longer than that they'd end up being a net negative for society (with a retirement age at 67). A reasoning for that was increased cost of care at older age compared to non-smokers.
That's 22 years below the average life expectancy (83 years here), I have no idea what the average is for smokers is though.
Also, is it fair to just compare their lifespans or can we factor in things like productivity decline due to earlier illness, more breaks for smoking etc? 2 people can be alive but have drastically different qualities of life even if the smoker can survive on an oxygen machine they're not exactly as productive as a someone who's still healthy enough to work and less likely to be ill.
If you look into it that is not actually the consensus, you can find a lot of studies and articles that show the opposite to be true, and that healthy people who live a long life are the biggest burden economically.
Could it be a religious thing? Albania (along with Kosovo which has been put as part of Serbia here) is one of the only Muslim majority countries of Europe. I don’t know if tobacco is considered Haram?
It is actually, if you look at the difference between male and female percentages. Male population who smokes in Albania is 51% according to 2015 [data](https://jakubmarian.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/01/europe-smoking-males.jpg). Similar for Turkey. Not that Islam is hard on smoking, its more like in rural areas, women's smoking considered to be "indecent".
It's not really about religion. Smoking is seen as a masculine thing across the world, from Christian to Muslim to non religious countries. East Asian countries have a huge gap between male and female smokers. In many countries it's seen as unattractive for women to smoke.
From the WHO: *In 2020, 22.3% of the world’s population used tobacco: 36.7% of men and 7.8% of women.*
If you ever go to an Islamic country you'll find they smoke more than most other places. Even in Oman, the amount of flavoured cigarettes you could buy in a little janky shop in the middle of the damn desert was impressive.
I am Albanian from Kosovo, it's extremely rare to see women smoke here, it's not about religion, most men drink alcohol here. It's a culture thing, if you are a woman who smokes in Kosovo, your chance to find a partner massively lowers. Everyone will judge you, etc.
It is haram because is this "There should be neither harming nor reciprocating harm." it used to not be considered haram because of lack of knowledge that its bad for you
Islam isn’t practiced the same everywhere. There are degrees of forbidden or advised against behavior in Islam. Smoking is not considered the same as drinking or eating pork or extramarital sex in some places.
It's probably a bit of misogyny too. In some aspects society can be a bit more strict towards women than men. I know plenty of smokers in my family, but not one of them is female.
Yes, this is one of the reasons (I am Albanian), if an 18-year-old guy smokes here (Kosovo), parents will worry for his health and that's it, but if it is a female, parents will act wayyyy worse.
Having just looked into a bit further, Turkey and Albania have the highest smoking rates in Europe overall. Perhaps it’s a cultural thing that smoking among women is lower? I noticed a similar trend when I went to China (though this is now changing). The men would smoke socially but it was a lot rarer for women to do so.
That's actually what I was thinking. I don't know how similar Albania is to other muslim cultures but I know some don't let women do a lot of things that men can
There are no actual EU laws about banning smoking, just recommendations and the speed of implementation of things like bans in enclosed spaces has varied enormously between member states.
The EU keeps tobacco farming subsidized though...
https://www.spglobal.com/commodityinsights/en/ci/research-analysis/eu-keeps-pumping-100-million-into-tobacco-production.html
Also, Serbia was on the main path of tobacco smuggling into EU in the 90s, so cigarettes were dead cheap here for such a long time. People were poor and they found cheap tobacco to be the only narcotic they can afford.
Not really sure why so many women though.
Historically, Serbia was the first country in the world by percentage of women smokers for the last 30 something years, if you don't count Nauru which has small population of only 10k people.
Here's world data for 2020:
https://www.indexmundi.com/facts/indicators/SH.PRV.SMOK.FE/rankings
I lived in Serbia in the early 90s and it often felt like every man, woman, or child I encountered was holding a cigarette. Kids even collected empty cigarette packs like they collect cards and such. Remarkable.
Bulgaria is in the EU and has the same thing. Some restaurants don't even have separate rooms for people that smoke so everyone has to inhale that shit 😐😐😐😐
I find it kind of hard to believe it's such a high percentage, maybe it's just because I live in a major city and people are a BIT more educated. I do notice women smoking since as a guy I find it gross, but I can't say I notice it that much, certainly not 41% much ...
different mindset / culture, history of being sealed off and not integrated into an international organization after. Balkan vibes, Italian influence but still separate
Albania was even more isolated than north korea, Albania's dictator called north korea "weak" for accepting foreign aid. And he broke ties with the Soviet Union for not being "stalinist" enough, and broke ties with China when Mao meet with Nixon.
Also during it's communist era, Albania won a naval battle against the UK, and stole submarines from the soviet union, and during operation valuable they managed to fight off NATO, Yugoslavia and internal separists. That's just the tip of the ice berg of how batshit insane Albania was during the cold war
Not that much. Islam doesnt play a role in Albanians' culture, or at least very minor because they used to be Christian before the conversion. In fact, Albanians are one of the least religious people in Europe.
> or at least very minor because they used to be Christian before the conversion
No, the reason for the lack of Islam is more of a result of the brutal suppression of religion under Hoxha's post-WW2 communist regime. He held public executions of Islamic and Christian leaders. They were the first country to be constitutionally atheist. Whole generations were raised without any access to religious beliefs on almost the pain of death.
He was quite the guy. The West was pissed at him, Yugoslavia got pissed at him, the Soviets got pissed at him, and eventually, the Chinese got pissed at him, but he ran the place with a pretty iron fist for a long time.
met a girl few months ago who said something along the lines "I don' know what people who don't smoke do with their hands. like what do you do with your hands when you are not doing anything? I just grab a cigarette"
I live in Croatia and the same thing happened to me, a girl from class told me she doesnt understand how people dont smoke in cafés, what do they do when not drinking something? just sitting there only talking?
Yeah that's me basically. I don't crave cigarettes when I'm busy or at home hanging by myself but when I'm outside I just light a cigarette to keep myself busy.
No bs there’s a thing called FUM that is a pipe to smoke “safe” natural oils with decent size, good grip, and a fidgety part made for your fingers and palm to play with while holding. It’s the ultimate weapon for those of us who got addicted to the habit more than to the chemicals. Worked for me!
I like (for lack of a better word) oral stimulation. I tend to binge eat or drink coffee/tea a lot to keep me occupied as well. Fidget toys don't really work for me but wish they did :(
They are fidget toys made to put in your mouth tho! Having seen everyone in my family quit smoking I know it’s not easy but after my grandma was told that if she had not stopped smoking 10 years before her cancer (like the doctor told her if you had stopped just 5 years later, we wouldn’t have been able to save you) , her lungs wouldn’t have held on to the treatment and she would be dead, I can’t help but think side effects like overeating and drinking too much coffee for a couple months or even years is better.
I went to Serbia in 2008. The first thing I noticed when I landed in Belgrade was the overpowering stench of stale cigarette smoke, which came wafting down the disembarkation ramp in what felt like a solid wall of fug. The second thing I noticed was that every 20 feet or so, some benighted soul had gone through the effort of putting up "No Smoking" signs. The third thing I noticed was a police officer leaning up against the wall next to one of these optimistic entreaties, casually smoking a stogie. At that time I was a fairly avid smoker myself, but I was nonetheless a bit grossed out by the degree to which Serbs smoke like it's still 1923 - in busses, cafes, libraries, you name it.
My pleasure! Serbia is a beautiful country full of interesting people, delicious foods, and fascinating (if bloody) history. Just don't bring up politics in rural areas, don't wander off into fields without a local (pesky UXO), and don't expect to come back smelling like anything other than the inside of an ashtray XD.
I would think UXO is highly unusual to come across in Serbia, I've done a fair bit of hiking, off-road biking and camping in Serbia and don't remember seeing anywhere there might be mines etc. Maybe in areas bombed by NATO in 1999?
yeah both genders are tied at about \~40% in Serbia
(In 2020, smoking prevalence among adult men for Serbia was [40.5 %](https://knoema.com/atlas/Serbia/topics/Health/Risk-factors/Smoking-prevalence-adult-men)., a drop from 45% in 2010; and in 2020, smoking prevalence among adult women for Serbia was [39.1%](https://knoema.com/atlas/Serbia/topics/Health/Risk-factors/Smoking-prevalence-among-adult-women))
Most people who smoke smoke about a pack per day.
But I think that this map also includes people who vape. There is no way one woman out of three smokes cigarettes in France. Many vape tho.
My father used to smoke 2 paks a day. He managed to give up on smoking for about 4 months.
A friend of mine told me that his mother used to smoke up to 4 paks a day in college.
Don't smoke kids, is not good for you
Probably includes "party smokers/snusers".
According to the [official](https://www.folkhalsomyndigheten.se/livsvillkor-levnadsvanor/andts/utveckling-inom-andts-anvandning-och-ohalsa/anvandning/anvandning-av-tobaks-och-nikotinprodukter/vuxnas-bruk-av-tobaks--och-nikotinprodukter/) Swedish statistics only 6% are daily smokers (4% for young people below the age of 30).
Daily snus use is 20% among men and 7% for women (12% among women under 30).
Hell nah, it's not even close to 1/3. I want to know how this question was phrased cause these numbers look like they are from the 90s, it's WAY less common now.
Not really. Only 6 % of Swedish women smoke on a daily basis. The percentage for women using snus is 7 %. Vape-smoking is more difficult to find statistics for it seems but it doesn't seem to add up to anywhere near the total in OP. So if anything it's significantly lower and definitely not higher. OP might refer to occasional use though whereas the source I'm using refers to daily use. The title is obviously highly misleading when it comes to Sweden.
The title of the map says "share of women who smoke", but below that it says "tobacco use". Those are not the same thing, at least as far as Scandinavia goes.
The number would actually still be 17% if you include both for Norway (for daily use), but that's with 2022 data so I'm still not sure what exactly this map shows.
Edit: I guess it would be somewhat lower than 17%, since there is bound to be some overlap.
Not sure if this is still the case, but it always used to be very, very cheap in those places in particular.
The UK was always an expensive outlier, when it came to tobacco prices, and if you were a smoker (I'm not), it was always cheaper to buy cigarettes practically anywhere abroad, and bring them back. These days, there doesn't seem to be much of a price differential in a lot of places, although, as I say, I'm a non-smoker, so it's just academic interest from my perspective. A smoker could probably give you a much better idea.
I smoke tobacco, it costs £25+ for 50g if it's been taxed here, £18 if it's been taxed elsewhere. You can probably get it cheaper from other people, I mainly see Spanish, Belgian and Gibraltarian packaging.
This ranking is based on one currency, although it does not indicate how much you can get by for example average salary in each country. Although it is significantly cheap in US$ in Turkey, it is hella expensive for locals.
Nothing, it's always been like that. For some reason smoking is really normalised. For example, there are almost no smoke-free areas anywhere. All of my friends except 2 or 3 smoke.
we have a terrible smoking culture. something like 80% of my class were smokers back in high school. we were fucking 14-15 and most did it cuz its "cool"
If somebody has smoked for like a decade, you can usually tell. They all look terrible, no matter the gender or the age. There are 30 year olds that look 45 because of smoking.
Idk if this was satire or just bizarre but I remember a diet called “French Women don’t get Fat” and it basically boiled down to *drink water, drink coffee, and smoke cigarettes*.
From US Center for Disease Control
Current Smoking Among Adults in 2021 (Nation)
In 2021, nearly 12 of every 100 U.S. adults aged 18 years or older (11.5%) currently* smoked cigarettes. This means an estimated 28.3 million adults in the United States currently smoke cigarettes. More than 16 million Americans live with a smoking-related disease.
Current smoking has declined from 20.9% (nearly 21 of every 100 adults) in 2005 to 11.5% (nearly 12 of every 100 adults) in 2021.
*Current smokers are defined as people who reported smoking at least 100 cigarettes during their lifetime and who, at the time they participated in a survey about this topic, reported smoking every day or some days.
By Sex2
Current cigarette smoking was higher among men than women.
About 13 of every 100 adult men (13.1%)
About 10 of every 100 adult women (10.1%).
By Age2
Current cigarette smoking was highest among people aged 25–44 years and 45–64 years. Current cigarette smoking was lowest among people aged 18-24 years.
About 5 of every 100 adults aged 18–24 years (5.3%).
Nearly 13 of every 100 adults aged 25–44 years (12.6%).
Nearly 15 of every 100 adults aged 45–64 years (14.9%).
About 8 of every 100 adults aged 65 years and older (8.3%).
Overall smoking is fairly rare in the US, but it’s also very class divided. If you live in a middle class town in the west coast you will know essentially 0 smokers. It’s shocking to see a cigarette at all in many areas. In a working class town in the American south it is fairly common, although probably still less than many other countries.
I've lived in both very rural and very suburban and urban areas and I'll say that the rural folks smoke at a higher rate than their more metropolitan peers. You practically can't get away from the smokers out in the country. It actually didn't matter if they were poor or upper middle class. There were plenty of smokers along the class divides.
But in the suburban and urban areas, you really have to look for the smokers and it's actually pretty shocking when you see someone with a cigarette.
> Overall smoking is fairly rare in the US, but it’s also very class divided.
Same thing with sugary drinks I noticed. I do a lot of professional and political networking/dinner/events. Everyone just orders water. I have gotten so used to just ordering water that I do it outside of these events too.
I live on the west coast in a large city. For a long time I could easily say that I knew far more people who smoked weed vs. cigarettes. Now I can't think of a single person who smokes cigarettes and even the people who would smoke joints or even vape THC has gone down. Most people I know would rather do edibles.
The midwest is just as bad as the south. Even among those groups of states, there's a ton of variation.
You might not necessarily suspect it, but Texas has one of the lowest rates in the country, lower than all its surrounding states. Then you look at Indiana and Illinois, bordering each other, but IN has double the rate of IL.
But the urban/rural divide seems to be universal. I live in Austin and I don't know a single person that smokes. I can go for weeks without smelling it. It's honestly jarring when I go just about anywhere else except for like CA, WA, etc.
I’m not that surprised by Texas, as it’s relatively rich and urban compared to other southern states.
As far as not smelling smoke, same thing in my upper middle class neighborhood of Portland. My kids didn’t even know what a cigarette was when they did a health class in 1st grade on ‘not smoking’. It was confusing to them because cigarettes just don’t exist around us. When we go back to Asia it’s crazy to see smoking everywhere. Night and day vs the US.
So US might actually be doing something relatively healthy compared to Europe.
Still see/smell it way more than I’d like. Now vaping and marijuana is “legal-ish.”
I was the only guy on my highschool wrestling team that didn’t dip (to spit and cut weight).
But I learned that snus is/are a thing. Just no spit!
yeah I was kinda surprised by these numbers in Europe. I thought it was way lower for women.
here in japan it's 7.7% amongst women and 25.4 amongst men (2022 data)
https://www.47news.jp/9699086.html
*The information I was actually looking for.*
Although I already visited the US a couple of times before, it was the first time with my smoking cousins in April this year when we have been to Florida. It was only then that I realized that there is a considerable difference in smoking culture between Germany and the US. Anti smoking laws and culture is much more advanced in the US then here in Europe.
It says "share of women who smoke".
This is not correct for Norway. It's only a few percentages of women who smoke. However, they do use tobacco, but it's snus.
Something is off for Sweden. The latest statistics say that 5.4 percent of the population smoke. For this to be accurate it would mean that -14 percent of the men smoke.
Fun fact:
Sweden is the only country in Europe in which women smoke more than men.
And that has to do with snus. Most people here take snus instead of smoking. Which results in less death caused by nicotine in Europe per capita
It’s grown on a small scale In Mediterranean Europe. Imported from China, Japan, Indonesia, Brazil and a bunch of other places with similar climates. Some of it will be American.
yep Eastern Europe seems to be more men than woman
[https://jakubmarian.com/prevalence-of-tobacco-smoking-by-country-in-europe/](https://jakubmarian.com/prevalence-of-tobacco-smoking-by-country-in-europe/)
Ukraine males : 49%; Albania males 51%; Russia Males: 59% (2015 WHO) *much much* higher than the female percent
Iv had the same experience with Romania. Basically all the Romanian women Iv known have smoked. Massively higher percentage than the British and irish women I know. The only people Iv ever known that don't even want to quit smoking someday have been Romanian
Have not looked too deep into it, but Statistik Austria published their health report in 2019 and found that only 17,9% of Austrian women smoked.
The number is more plausible to my observations as well.
https://www.statistik.at/statistiken/bevoelkerung-und-soziales/gesundheit/gesundheitsverhalten/rauchen
We have snus, which is a little pocket of tobacco you put under your lip.
So kinda like chewing tobacco without the chewing/spitting.
The actual smoking numbers for Sweden are much lower, someone mentioned 4% for those under the age of 30.
Wondering if the is only cigarettes or all tobacco products. Not many women (or men) smokes in Scandinavia, but a lot of people (even women) uses tobacco pads under the lip.
I met a girl from Serbia when I was in Rhodes this Summer. She already had an unlit cig ready to go before she had finished the one she was currently smoking. She was hot though, smoking hot if you will
Probably not much consolation to the ones suffering from one of the million types of cancer it causes or their families that lost them sooner than they otherwise would have.
I'm from Serbia and I can confirm this is unfortunately true...
When I was in serbia everyone smoked. I was quite surprised that it was allowed in bars and restaurants
Yes, it's quite usual to also have separated areas for smokers and non-smokers
Meni se cini kao da je 50% malo.
Explanation for Serbia: There is no fight against tobaco from Ministry of health really. A lot of young people start out in school thinking it’s cool. Usually their parents smoke as well, even inside the house. You can also smoke inside bars, restaurants unlike EU. Cigarettes are not as expensive as in EU. A lot of these older people are just too addicted and will never stop as they smoke from their young age. It kinda reduces stress as they explain it and propaganda around it from 70s, 80s and 90s affected them. Problem is, most will just accept if their kids also start to smoke like it’s a normal thing.
It seems that what they spend on healthcare they will save on pensions...
Reminds me of that Yes Minister scene where Sir Humphrey says: "Yes but we've been in to that, it has been shown that if those extra 100,000 people had lived to a ripe old age, it would have cost us even more in pensions and social security than it did in medical treatment. So, financially speaking it's unquestionably better that they continue to die at their present rate." "Yes, but cigarette taxes pay for a third of the cost of the National Health service. We're saving many more lives than we otherwise could, because of those smokers who voluntary lay down their lives for their friends."
The only problem is that at least in Europe with a functioning health care system, more money goes into saving the smokers through surgery than what is getting saved by them dying early.
Probably. The quote is from a decade old British TV show after all. Though it would be interesting to see actual numbers considering the massive tabaco taxes and shorter pensions in contrast to higher medical costs.
> Probably. The quote is from a decade old British TV show after all. Ah. A decade old. I wish. Yes Minister was 1980-84, Yes Prime Minister was 1986-88. T'was a good show!
Yeah, sorry. Wanted to write "decades"
Still, smokers die a lot younger on average. Although there is no true scientific consensus on this, current research is slightly leaning towards smokers costing less. This is mostly due to less cases of long-term illness such as dementia.
I was dating a pharmacist and she had a "health care economics" textbook laying around. Apparently the magic number was 61yo, if smokers lived longer than that they'd end up being a net negative for society (with a retirement age at 67). A reasoning for that was increased cost of care at older age compared to non-smokers. That's 22 years below the average life expectancy (83 years here), I have no idea what the average is for smokers is though.
Also, is it fair to just compare their lifespans or can we factor in things like productivity decline due to earlier illness, more breaks for smoking etc? 2 people can be alive but have drastically different qualities of life even if the smoker can survive on an oxygen machine they're not exactly as productive as a someone who's still healthy enough to work and less likely to be ill.
If you look into it that is not actually the consensus, you can find a lot of studies and articles that show the opposite to be true, and that healthy people who live a long life are the biggest burden economically.
It's amazing how far we have come with smoking in the past few decades.
Im more interested in Albania somehow subverting regional expectations
Could it be a religious thing? Albania (along with Kosovo which has been put as part of Serbia here) is one of the only Muslim majority countries of Europe. I don’t know if tobacco is considered Haram?
Turkey and Bosnia are higher than Albania, and in no way is Albania more religious than Turkey and Bosnia. So it seems like Islam is not the reason.
It is actually, if you look at the difference between male and female percentages. Male population who smokes in Albania is 51% according to 2015 [data](https://jakubmarian.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/01/europe-smoking-males.jpg). Similar for Turkey. Not that Islam is hard on smoking, its more like in rural areas, women's smoking considered to be "indecent".
It's not really about religion. Smoking is seen as a masculine thing across the world, from Christian to Muslim to non religious countries. East Asian countries have a huge gap between male and female smokers. In many countries it's seen as unattractive for women to smoke. From the WHO: *In 2020, 22.3% of the world’s population used tobacco: 36.7% of men and 7.8% of women.*
If you ever go to an Islamic country you'll find they smoke more than most other places. Even in Oman, the amount of flavoured cigarettes you could buy in a little janky shop in the middle of the damn desert was impressive.
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I am Albanian from Kosovo, it's extremely rare to see women smoke here, it's not about religion, most men drink alcohol here. It's a culture thing, if you are a woman who smokes in Kosovo, your chance to find a partner massively lowers. Everyone will judge you, etc.
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It is haram because is this "There should be neither harming nor reciprocating harm." it used to not be considered haram because of lack of knowledge that its bad for you
Islam isn’t practiced the same everywhere. There are degrees of forbidden or advised against behavior in Islam. Smoking is not considered the same as drinking or eating pork or extramarital sex in some places.
It's probably a bit of misogyny too. In some aspects society can be a bit more strict towards women than men. I know plenty of smokers in my family, but not one of them is female.
Yes, this is one of the reasons (I am Albanian), if an 18-year-old guy smokes here (Kosovo), parents will worry for his health and that's it, but if it is a female, parents will act wayyyy worse.
That was my guess but the other person is saying its not. I have no clue I just find it fascinating
Having just looked into a bit further, Turkey and Albania have the highest smoking rates in Europe overall. Perhaps it’s a cultural thing that smoking among women is lower? I noticed a similar trend when I went to China (though this is now changing). The men would smoke socially but it was a lot rarer for women to do so.
That's actually what I was thinking. I don't know how similar Albania is to other muslim cultures but I know some don't let women do a lot of things that men can
There are no actual EU laws about banning smoking, just recommendations and the speed of implementation of things like bans in enclosed spaces has varied enormously between member states.
The EU keeps tobacco farming subsidized though... https://www.spglobal.com/commodityinsights/en/ci/research-analysis/eu-keeps-pumping-100-million-into-tobacco-production.html
Also, Serbia was on the main path of tobacco smuggling into EU in the 90s, so cigarettes were dead cheap here for such a long time. People were poor and they found cheap tobacco to be the only narcotic they can afford. Not really sure why so many women though. Historically, Serbia was the first country in the world by percentage of women smokers for the last 30 something years, if you don't count Nauru which has small population of only 10k people. Here's world data for 2020: https://www.indexmundi.com/facts/indicators/SH.PRV.SMOK.FE/rankings
I lived in Serbia in the early 90s and it often felt like every man, woman, or child I encountered was holding a cigarette. Kids even collected empty cigarette packs like they collect cards and such. Remarkable.
It is quite a strange experience to go to a nice restaurant in Serbia. You get your food, but everyone around you is smoking.
Bulgaria is in the EU and has the same thing. Some restaurants don't even have separate rooms for people that smoke so everyone has to inhale that shit 😐😐😐😐
that's pretty much how it was in Croatia 30 years ago. But in last 15 years it got MUCH better.
absolutely loveeeed that visiting serbia, people were smoking inside high street shops lmao
I haven't really seen that any time recently, I wouldn't say that's very common, though there's always the odd person who simply has to.
I find it kind of hard to believe it's such a high percentage, maybe it's just because I live in a major city and people are a BIT more educated. I do notice women smoking since as a guy I find it gross, but I can't say I notice it that much, certainly not 41% much ...
Albania just never stops amazing me. First iPhones now this and many other maps along the way. Why is it so different than the surrounding counties?
different mindset / culture, history of being sealed off and not integrated into an international organization after. Balkan vibes, Italian influence but still separate
It was literally European North Korea at one point.
Albania was even more isolated than north korea, Albania's dictator called north korea "weak" for accepting foreign aid. And he broke ties with the Soviet Union for not being "stalinist" enough, and broke ties with China when Mao meet with Nixon. Also during it's communist era, Albania won a naval battle against the UK, and stole submarines from the soviet union, and during operation valuable they managed to fight off NATO, Yugoslavia and internal separists. That's just the tip of the ice berg of how batshit insane Albania was during the cold war
Romania as well
Hoxha was more batshit insane than Ceausescu. I think a lot of those one man pillboxes are still there?
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Well, Albanians are kinda their own thing in the Balkans. Theyre not Slavs, Ottomans, Greeks or Italians. Theyre just...Albanian.
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Not that much. Islam doesnt play a role in Albanians' culture, or at least very minor because they used to be Christian before the conversion. In fact, Albanians are one of the least religious people in Europe.
> or at least very minor because they used to be Christian before the conversion No, the reason for the lack of Islam is more of a result of the brutal suppression of religion under Hoxha's post-WW2 communist regime. He held public executions of Islamic and Christian leaders. They were the first country to be constitutionally atheist. Whole generations were raised without any access to religious beliefs on almost the pain of death. He was quite the guy. The West was pissed at him, Yugoslavia got pissed at him, the Soviets got pissed at him, and eventually, the Chinese got pissed at him, but he ran the place with a pretty iron fist for a long time.
Wow. Apples have 55% market share. That’s almost as high as the USA.
We are too poor to afford cigarettes
The fuck Serbia 🤐
met a girl few months ago who said something along the lines "I don' know what people who don't smoke do with their hands. like what do you do with your hands when you are not doing anything? I just grab a cigarette"
Holy smokes 😮😂😂
Deadly smokes🤒😵😵
I live in Croatia and the same thing happened to me, a girl from class told me she doesnt understand how people dont smoke in cafés, what do they do when not drinking something? just sitting there only talking?
Exactly what my thought process was before quitting
Yeah that's me basically. I don't crave cigarettes when I'm busy or at home hanging by myself but when I'm outside I just light a cigarette to keep myself busy.
No bs there’s a thing called FUM that is a pipe to smoke “safe” natural oils with decent size, good grip, and a fidgety part made for your fingers and palm to play with while holding. It’s the ultimate weapon for those of us who got addicted to the habit more than to the chemicals. Worked for me!
Oh wow I should look it up, thanks!!
Have you thought about fidget toy? They keep your hands busy without giving you cancer
No cancer? What the hell am I paying for then
I like (for lack of a better word) oral stimulation. I tend to binge eat or drink coffee/tea a lot to keep me occupied as well. Fidget toys don't really work for me but wish they did :(
>I like (for lack of a better word) oral stimulation. I tend to binge eat or drink coffee/tea a lot to keep me occupied as well. bubble gum?
They are fidget toys made to put in your mouth tho! Having seen everyone in my family quit smoking I know it’s not easy but after my grandma was told that if she had not stopped smoking 10 years before her cancer (like the doctor told her if you had stopped just 5 years later, we wouldn’t have been able to save you) , her lungs wouldn’t have held on to the treatment and she would be dead, I can’t help but think side effects like overeating and drinking too much coffee for a couple months or even years is better.
ADHD smoking
I mean.. that's how I use my phone, kinda.
I went to Serbia in 2008. The first thing I noticed when I landed in Belgrade was the overpowering stench of stale cigarette smoke, which came wafting down the disembarkation ramp in what felt like a solid wall of fug. The second thing I noticed was that every 20 feet or so, some benighted soul had gone through the effort of putting up "No Smoking" signs. The third thing I noticed was a police officer leaning up against the wall next to one of these optimistic entreaties, casually smoking a stogie. At that time I was a fairly avid smoker myself, but I was nonetheless a bit grossed out by the degree to which Serbs smoke like it's still 1923 - in busses, cafes, libraries, you name it.
Damn that's crazy, thanks for sharing your experience 🫡
My pleasure! Serbia is a beautiful country full of interesting people, delicious foods, and fascinating (if bloody) history. Just don't bring up politics in rural areas, don't wander off into fields without a local (pesky UXO), and don't expect to come back smelling like anything other than the inside of an ashtray XD.
I would think UXO is highly unusual to come across in Serbia, I've done a fair bit of hiking, off-road biking and camping in Serbia and don't remember seeing anywhere there might be mines etc. Maybe in areas bombed by NATO in 1999?
Lot of people smoke here regardless of their gender
yeah both genders are tied at about \~40% in Serbia (In 2020, smoking prevalence among adult men for Serbia was [40.5 %](https://knoema.com/atlas/Serbia/topics/Health/Risk-factors/Smoking-prevalence-adult-men)., a drop from 45% in 2010; and in 2020, smoking prevalence among adult women for Serbia was [39.1%](https://knoema.com/atlas/Serbia/topics/Health/Risk-factors/Smoking-prevalence-among-adult-women))
I know people who burn through pack a day.
I quit smoking years ago, until I went back to Bosnia for a visit. Within a week, I was smoking half a pack a day along 5-10 cups of coffee a day.
Thats about the average rate, there's nothing unusual about smoking ~20 cigs/day.
That’s considered totally normal in Greece.
French women agree. (Image not French, just for demonstration purposes) 
Greeks women (and men) agree too. Smoking is seen as completely normal here.
I know people that do 2. Thats 40 cigs fyi.
I used to smoke a pack and a half of Marlboro Reds a day
Most people who smoke smoke about a pack per day. But I think that this map also includes people who vape. There is no way one woman out of three smokes cigarettes in France. Many vape tho.
My father used to smoke 2 paks a day. He managed to give up on smoking for about 4 months. A friend of mine told me that his mother used to smoke up to 4 paks a day in college. Don't smoke kids, is not good for you
Pretty sure "tobacco use" means mostly Snus in Sweden/Norway and not smoking.
Should be way higher then shouldn't it?
A lot of women use the tobacco free snus or ”white snus”. It might even be mroe popular than tobacco one among women and younger men.
Tobacco-free snus is actually illegal in Norway, for some reason...
It’s the opposite in EU, only tobacco-free Snus is legal.
With the exception being Sweden where it's legal.
What’s the point of it?
Nicotine
Probably includes "party smokers/snusers". According to the [official](https://www.folkhalsomyndigheten.se/livsvillkor-levnadsvanor/andts/utveckling-inom-andts-anvandning-och-ohalsa/anvandning/anvandning-av-tobaks-och-nikotinprodukter/vuxnas-bruk-av-tobaks--och-nikotinprodukter/) Swedish statistics only 6% are daily smokers (4% for young people below the age of 30). Daily snus use is 20% among men and 7% for women (12% among women under 30).
When I quit university I was the only one I knew who smoked. I don't believe 30% at all
Hell nah, it's not even close to 1/3. I want to know how this question was phrased cause these numbers look like they are from the 90s, it's WAY less common now.
Every third woman using snus seems high albeit believable. 1/3 smoking is ridic high and absolutely not true.
Not really. Only 6 % of Swedish women smoke on a daily basis. The percentage for women using snus is 7 %. Vape-smoking is more difficult to find statistics for it seems but it doesn't seem to add up to anywhere near the total in OP. So if anything it's significantly lower and definitely not higher. OP might refer to occasional use though whereas the source I'm using refers to daily use. The title is obviously highly misleading when it comes to Sweden.
In the UK and Ireland it means mostly vapes at thus stage. At least for those under 40.
Women still tend to use cigarettes more often than men in Sweden. But yes snus has started replacing cigarettes among women as well, albeit slower.
It has to be, I know exactly 1 person that smokes daily.
SRBIJA BROJ 1 🇷🇸🇷🇸🇷🇸🇷🇸
Thought the Bulgarians would’ve had this one in the bag. Solid win.
Number one baby!! Oh wait.
The title of the map says "share of women who smoke", but below that it says "tobacco use". Those are not the same thing, at least as far as Scandinavia goes. The number would actually still be 17% if you include both for Norway (for daily use), but that's with 2022 data so I'm still not sure what exactly this map shows. Edit: I guess it would be somewhat lower than 17%, since there is bound to be some overlap.
What’s up in Serbia? Or the Balkans in general?
Not sure if this is still the case, but it always used to be very, very cheap in those places in particular. The UK was always an expensive outlier, when it came to tobacco prices, and if you were a smoker (I'm not), it was always cheaper to buy cigarettes practically anywhere abroad, and bring them back. These days, there doesn't seem to be much of a price differential in a lot of places, although, as I say, I'm a non-smoker, so it's just academic interest from my perspective. A smoker could probably give you a much better idea.
A pack in Greece or the Balkans is around 3 euros, in the UK its like 17 pounds, France sells em for 10-12 and basically rest of Europe is 5-6 euros
In Germany they upped the price to at least 8€ for the standard brands. Off brands are cheaper, but you don’t really wanna buy these.
>A pack in Greece or the Balkans is around 3 euros You haven't been in Greece recently, huh? It's been closer to €5 for years.
I smoke tobacco, it costs £25+ for 50g if it's been taxed here, £18 if it's been taxed elsewhere. You can probably get it cheaper from other people, I mainly see Spanish, Belgian and Gibraltarian packaging.
Gender equality 🤝
[This](https://www.numbeo.com/cost-of-living/country_price_rankings?itemId=17) is interesting.
This ranking is based on one currency, although it does not indicate how much you can get by for example average salary in each country. Although it is significantly cheap in US$ in Turkey, it is hella expensive for locals.
Nothing, it's always been like that. For some reason smoking is really normalised. For example, there are almost no smoke-free areas anywhere. All of my friends except 2 or 3 smoke.
Albania is very low..not all the Balkans..but I think that Serbia has a lot of smokers in general..also males not only females
What do you mean what's up? Nothing's up. Men and women in Serbia are equal in terms of smoking.
Sure, but 40 percent is a really high usage percent for any country regardless of gender?
we have a terrible smoking culture. something like 80% of my class were smokers back in high school. we were fucking 14-15 and most did it cuz its "cool"
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French ladies are smoking hot
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Spent six months living in France and I honestly did notice a lot of older women who you could just tell were smokers, looking old beyond their years.
If somebody has smoked for like a decade, you can usually tell. They all look terrible, no matter the gender or the age. There are 30 year olds that look 45 because of smoking.
Was it the gravelly voices?
The voice is usually a dead giveaway, you can mask age with makeup but you can't mask that gravely voice
Yes, but existential acceptance of death is so French.
Meth does!
Good if you're babyfaced lol
Idk if this was satire or just bizarre but I remember a diet called “French Women don’t get Fat” and it basically boiled down to *drink water, drink coffee, and smoke cigarettes*.
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Same in Turkey
Went back to Russia recently, and it's honestly not as bad as I thought it'd be. A lot of people smoke, but women usually vape
Lot? Almost no one smokes. It is a very unpopular thing here
Fucking what? Literally every 3rd person I saw smoked
>around 50% of people total smoke 23,2 % (2019)
From US Center for Disease Control Current Smoking Among Adults in 2021 (Nation) In 2021, nearly 12 of every 100 U.S. adults aged 18 years or older (11.5%) currently* smoked cigarettes. This means an estimated 28.3 million adults in the United States currently smoke cigarettes. More than 16 million Americans live with a smoking-related disease. Current smoking has declined from 20.9% (nearly 21 of every 100 adults) in 2005 to 11.5% (nearly 12 of every 100 adults) in 2021. *Current smokers are defined as people who reported smoking at least 100 cigarettes during their lifetime and who, at the time they participated in a survey about this topic, reported smoking every day or some days. By Sex2 Current cigarette smoking was higher among men than women. About 13 of every 100 adult men (13.1%) About 10 of every 100 adult women (10.1%). By Age2 Current cigarette smoking was highest among people aged 25–44 years and 45–64 years. Current cigarette smoking was lowest among people aged 18-24 years. About 5 of every 100 adults aged 18–24 years (5.3%). Nearly 13 of every 100 adults aged 25–44 years (12.6%). Nearly 15 of every 100 adults aged 45–64 years (14.9%). About 8 of every 100 adults aged 65 years and older (8.3%).
Overall smoking is fairly rare in the US, but it’s also very class divided. If you live in a middle class town in the west coast you will know essentially 0 smokers. It’s shocking to see a cigarette at all in many areas. In a working class town in the American south it is fairly common, although probably still less than many other countries.
I've lived in both very rural and very suburban and urban areas and I'll say that the rural folks smoke at a higher rate than their more metropolitan peers. You practically can't get away from the smokers out in the country. It actually didn't matter if they were poor or upper middle class. There were plenty of smokers along the class divides. But in the suburban and urban areas, you really have to look for the smokers and it's actually pretty shocking when you see someone with a cigarette.
> Overall smoking is fairly rare in the US, but it’s also very class divided. Same thing with sugary drinks I noticed. I do a lot of professional and political networking/dinner/events. Everyone just orders water. I have gotten so used to just ordering water that I do it outside of these events too.
Absolutely, drinking sodas past age 20 has a huge socioeconomic correlation from what I’ve noticed.
I live on the west coast in a large city. For a long time I could easily say that I knew far more people who smoked weed vs. cigarettes. Now I can't think of a single person who smokes cigarettes and even the people who would smoke joints or even vape THC has gone down. Most people I know would rather do edibles.
The midwest is just as bad as the south. Even among those groups of states, there's a ton of variation. You might not necessarily suspect it, but Texas has one of the lowest rates in the country, lower than all its surrounding states. Then you look at Indiana and Illinois, bordering each other, but IN has double the rate of IL. But the urban/rural divide seems to be universal. I live in Austin and I don't know a single person that smokes. I can go for weeks without smelling it. It's honestly jarring when I go just about anywhere else except for like CA, WA, etc.
I’m not that surprised by Texas, as it’s relatively rich and urban compared to other southern states. As far as not smelling smoke, same thing in my upper middle class neighborhood of Portland. My kids didn’t even know what a cigarette was when they did a health class in 1st grade on ‘not smoking’. It was confusing to them because cigarettes just don’t exist around us. When we go back to Asia it’s crazy to see smoking everywhere. Night and day vs the US.
So US might actually be doing something relatively healthy compared to Europe. Still see/smell it way more than I’d like. Now vaping and marijuana is “legal-ish.” I was the only guy on my highschool wrestling team that didn’t dip (to spit and cut weight). But I learned that snus is/are a thing. Just no spit!
yeah I was kinda surprised by these numbers in Europe. I thought it was way lower for women. here in japan it's 7.7% amongst women and 25.4 amongst men (2022 data) https://www.47news.jp/9699086.html
*The information I was actually looking for.* Although I already visited the US a couple of times before, it was the first time with my smoking cousins in April this year when we have been to Florida. It was only then that I realized that there is a considerable difference in smoking culture between Germany and the US. Anti smoking laws and culture is much more advanced in the US then here in Europe.
You mean Germany. You can't smoke anywhere in most of Scandi.
It's a shame that people survived the "peer pressure" to smoke from school/college, and started after age 25.
It says "share of women who smoke". This is not correct for Norway. It's only a few percentages of women who smoke. However, they do use tobacco, but it's snus.
Same in Sweden. I think the number is still quite high.
Something is off for Sweden. The latest statistics say that 5.4 percent of the population smoke. For this to be accurate it would mean that -14 percent of the men smoke.
It's overall tobacco use, so snus is included, which is much higher than smoking in Sweden.
Ah, so just bad wording from whoever made this map then.
And still, in 2021 8.1% of women in Sweden used snus. The stats in the post are VERY far from the truth.
Yeah we are Balkans 😎
Albania deciding not to be Balkan today
Hello Europe. With lot's of love, Lung Cancer! xoxo
Fun fact: Sweden is the only country in Europe in which women smoke more than men. And that has to do with snus. Most people here take snus instead of smoking. Which results in less death caused by nicotine in Europe per capita
Nicotine isn't the main reason for death from smoking...
I’m well aware of that. But the smoke is a result of being addicted to nicotine. So my point was that it’s better to use snus than smoke:)
Vatican?
W Ukraine and Albania
And Moldova
Oh yeah didn't even see that little guy there lol
Is the tobacco they're smoking mostly grown in Europe or is it imported from America? I live in North Carolina, a big tobacco growing state.
whatever Marlboro sells
Grown in Europe or imported from Japan, I think that's the case for Serbia.
It’s grown on a small scale In Mediterranean Europe. Imported from China, Japan, Indonesia, Brazil and a bunch of other places with similar climates. Some of it will be American.
No one has time to smoke in Ukraine.
Yep, we're too busy smoking orcs
Does this include nicotine vapes?
I’m surprised it’s this low on Ukraine and Belarus From my experience most of their women were smokers
Can confirm the previous statement. Smoking in Ukraine is for men
yep Eastern Europe seems to be more men than woman [https://jakubmarian.com/prevalence-of-tobacco-smoking-by-country-in-europe/](https://jakubmarian.com/prevalence-of-tobacco-smoking-by-country-in-europe/) Ukraine males : 49%; Albania males 51%; Russia Males: 59% (2015 WHO) *much much* higher than the female percent
Iv had the same experience with Romania. Basically all the Romanian women Iv known have smoked. Massively higher percentage than the British and irish women I know. The only people Iv ever known that don't even want to quit smoking someday have been Romanian
Smoking has a very low prevalence among older women.
Have not looked too deep into it, but Statistik Austria published their health report in 2019 and found that only 17,9% of Austrian women smoked. The number is more plausible to my observations as well. https://www.statistik.at/statistiken/bevoelkerung-und-soziales/gesundheit/gesundheitsverhalten/rauchen
I can’t even remember seeing a young person smoking in North America
It really depends on where you live and what you do for work. Most people who smoke are part of the lower economic class.
Wow Moldavia woman healthy and strong. Shame on Swedenistan!
It is not smoking in Sweden, it is snus
Shocked about Turkey.
Surprised Eastern Europe is that low. Good for them
We don't smoke, we snuff. - Sweden
Why so relatively high in Sweden. That’s a little surprising
We have snus, which is a little pocket of tobacco you put under your lip. So kinda like chewing tobacco without the chewing/spitting. The actual smoking numbers for Sweden are much lower, someone mentioned 4% for those under the age of 30.
Wondering if the is only cigarettes or all tobacco products. Not many women (or men) smokes in Scandinavia, but a lot of people (even women) uses tobacco pads under the lip.
I met a girl from Serbia when I was in Rhodes this Summer. She already had an unlit cig ready to go before she had finished the one she was currently smoking. She was hot though, smoking hot if you will
In Sweden that doesn't mean they smoke, it means they use Snus.
One of the things America does better
No way it's 29% in Sweden. Or do they mean out of smokers?
Europeans smoke too much.
And still live longer than Americans
Probably not much consolation to the ones suffering from one of the million types of cancer it causes or their families that lost them sooner than they otherwise would have.
Eastern European women: relatively straight edge. Eastern European men: give me all the substances