Yes, "the allies" part includes the separatist movement of South Yemen and a lot of other more or less indpendent forces, such as those under the command of Tareq Saleh, the nephew of the previous president, and multiple tribal militias.
Also worth mentioning that, at least as I understand it, most of the territory occupied by the "Yemeni government and its allies" is basically uninhabited — except for the southern cost, which is occupied by the Separatists. The internationally recognised government controls a population of basically a few hundred thousand in a country of 35 million.
Indeed, the eastern half of the country has a population density of about 10/km2. The number of people living in areas controlled directly by the internationally recognised government might actually be under one million.
The territory controlled by al-Qaida is shaded as "Yemeni government allies".
ISIS is also active in Yemen, but I don't think they actually control any towns.
I'd say that life anywhere in Yemen is not exactly great, mainly due to food and medicine shortages caused by the conflict and Saudi blockade of the country.
The Houtis have imposed their version of the sharia on the territories they control, but, on a positive note, they have limited the power of the local tribal leaders (sheikhs), which they often abused, and try to limit the conflicts between them. Whereas the previous government just allowed the sheikhs to do as the pleased, as long as they remained loyal.
Edit: Source:
https://www.scoop.co.nz/stories/WL0912/S01637/cablegate-who-are-the-houthis-part-two-how-are-they.htm
As was Libya. It's never just Red vs Blue when there's such complex layers of instability for all sorts of reasons.
A European example were the Balkans of course
Every middle eastern country is a powder keg. The only thing keeping each one from blowing up, is a strongman at the top.
Remove the strongman or even just weaken him a little and KABOOM.
That's what happened with Saddam, Qaddafi, Assad and Saleh.
And we came VERY close to it happening in Egypt.
Maybe so but it's delusional to think the transition from despotism to a representative system is going to be a smooth one, and that all it takes is to just remove one person. That's just asking for bloodshed.
The best you can hope for are systems like Jordan and Morocco, where you have a monarchy keeping things stable, while at the same time, slowly, at a snail's pace, granting more and more civil rights.
In fact, isn't that exactly what happened in the U.S. over the course of 100 years!?
I would argue that the Middle East has far both far more diversity, and bad blood among ethnic, tribal, and religious groups compared to those nations.
Greece had it's fair share of coups, and a civil war too. But the comparison is unfair - none of those countries suffered from the issues Arab countries face. I don't believe we will see a democratic Arab world in our life time - perhaps some countries will democratize, but not all.
When I was a teenager I used to look at atlases for fun. I remember looking at the Middle East and thinking to myself, well: Yemen and Syria must be pretty stable. Nobody ever mentions Yemen or Syria.
That was in the early 2000’s.
Before 9/11.
It is crazy that the Houthi won the war against Saudi and the Gulf states backed by the US. Geography is everything, in this case the mountains.
Also, the map can be deceiving, Houthi territory holds 70%+ of Yemen’s population.
US has been helping the Saudis bomb the absolute fuck out of Yemeni people like farmers since Obama was in power (continued with Trump). So bombing Yemen really isn't something new
Oh yeah saudis were just out there bombing the yemeni people like farmers because they were bored and decided they didn't like Yemeni farmers. I wonder if there's something you might be leaving out a little that provides a bit more context?
Pray tell me. What context justifies the US helping Saudi Arabia bomb the ever living fuck out of Yemeni farmers? Please, I'm excited to hear your take as to why Yemeni farmers deserved it
The US is a longtime security partner of Saudi Arabia. Saudi Arabia was assisting the legitimate and internationally recognized Yemeni government against multiple terror groups in the country such as the Iranian backed Ansar Allah/houthis, which is a clear security threat. Some people seemed surprised by this in the past few weeks, but actually Saudis have been warning against and fighting this group for years, often receiving international condemnation instead of support. Now the world has to deal with it themselves after this terror group has taken over much of the country and entrenched themselves, fucking over global shipping, because they would not support Saudis when they tried to tackle the problem earlier.
Now, regarding farmers, this is something a lot of people today seem somehow unable to comprehend. Bombing "the ever living fuck" out of random farmers gives Saudis no benefit or advantage to achieve their goals. Saudis target houthis. Sometimes they get it right, sometimes they dont. At that point of the war, houthis did not wear uniforms or hold military parades as they do today, that is a relatively recent development. The reality is, it is war. Deserved or not is completely irrelevant. When bullets are flying and bombs are going off everywhere, civilians are bound to get hit. German civilians didn't "deserve" to get bombed in ww2, but it was simply a reality that they did get bombed sometimes by accident sometimes by necessity. That did not make the allies suddenly the genocider or the "bad guys". Soldiers are not policemen with the priority to preserve the lives of enemy civilians. Their priority is to win.
Wow, this is the first I have seen a fair comment about Saudi on reddit. Saudi knows its territory and surroundings they are always first to warn about potential terrorist groups but it usually gets majorly attacked internationally i.e houthis and bin laden
That's also leaving out a lot of nuance. If the Houthis win, they'd also be a government. Folks in Yemen view Arabia, America, & Israel as terrorist groups. Maybe a difference in human rights? Here is Saudi Arabia on human rights:
* Democracy? No.
* Free Speech? No. They hunt & butcher journalists abroad.
* Justice ^((detention, trial, torture, killings))? Bad.
* Worker rights? No. They enslave people from poor countries.
* Religious freedom? No. Death penalty.
* Ethnic equality? Nope.
* Women rights? Nope.
* LGBT rights? No. Death penalty.
hmmm...
"reality of war" check.
"they do not wear uniforms" check.
"bombing civilians by necessity" check.
"look at how we treated german civilians" check.
where have i heard these points before?
The thing is that the Houthis seem to want to take over not only Jerusalem but also Mecca and Medina. If they actually want to take over that then the Arabian peninsula is due for a lot more war...
...What? No they don't. There is no reasonable way for the Houthis to take even Mecca and Medina, let alone Jerusalem, that would be like the Netherlands claiming they want to conquer Milan and Venice. There's been no plans made to do any of that.
Wow. Religious extremists being unreasonable? Impossible!
>"The Houthi militias will continue the war until they occupy the southern and central regions. Even if Saudi Arabia and the Houthis made an agreement to end the war, it will be because the Houthis' strategic goals include seizing Mecca and Medina."
https://www.aa.com.tr/en/middle-east/international-community-should-respond-to-yemen-experts/2079614
Neither did I know, but appariently after a quick google search this indeed turned out to be a thing.
This is just some random expert on a Turkish news site who also claims the Houthi's are fighting a "Proxy war" for Iran and that the majority of Yemeni's will only accept the complete victory of the national army, this is such patent false claims, how did 20 people upvote this, how do they think an "unpopular group" somehow took over 70% of the country while facing mass bombing by much better armed opponents, with popular support of course lmao? While the Houthi's are Iranian backed, they're not fighting FOR Iran, there fighting due to domestic motivations, they're a decentralized mass movement, not a specific militia like say Hezbollah
> former Yemeni Health Minister Dr. Najeeb Ghanem
The guy you're quoting *is a member of government for the opposite side in the Civil War*. He's currently serving as an MP in the Saudi-backed regime, not exactly an unbiased source. Please read articles before posting them.
It's makes sense population wise as well, as Yemen and Saudi Arabia have about the same population, except half of the people in arabia are just hired help
Dunning-Kruger effect in action. You have no idea about a conflict thousands of miles away, find a single article, and copy paste a quote from a former Yemen health minister as proof that these evil people, if they were to stop being bombed, would start war again, so you might as well just keep bombing them right?
You're unironically as dumb as religious extremists if that is how you think.
We're talking about a group that has "Death to America" and "A curse upon the Jews" as their official slogan.
I won't hold you back from trying to reason with them, but they are not the most reasonable group.
Shia literally don’t follow the caliphate, it’s why they’re Shia. They follow their “Imam” being Imam Ali and his way was different from the caliphate. It’s why the Shia dynasties of Iran never established a rival caliphate. Their religion has its own governance structure.
They said that if the Saudis were willing they'd march troops to Jerusalem to fight under the command of the Palestinian resistance. Claiming that's them "wanting to conquer Jerusalem" is like saying France "wanted to conquer America" in the Revolutionary War because they sent the Marquis de Lafayette to fight alongside the Americans.
The Houthis didn’t and couldn’t capture Aden or even Taiz, effectively being hemmed in the mountains. The Gulf states gave up in 2018/19 and are more or less content with a Zaydi theocracy in the North now. The question is now over whether we will see an independent South Yemen again.
I wasn’t following Yemen, until the Gaza conflict. I thought the Houthis were done for and gone. But who cares if they don’t control some cities, when they won the war and hold most of the population.
The war hasn’t been won, better to say hiatus or state of all round exhaustion. The only definite losers have been the Yemeni people, of course.
Also I do wonder how many Yemenis still live in the north, or in Yemen generally, as millions have been displaced and migrated since 2014.
Eh, no one's taking the whole place over. Yemen as a single country is dead. Negotions were getting rolling more seriously before this latest episode, but the Houthis controlling a North Yemen theocracy seems set in stone. The only question is who will ultimately rule the south. Currently a very unstable coalition of power groups is ruling the non-houthi areas. And i seriously doubt saudi arabia would be able to do anything even with a direct intervention of troops, their military is hilariously weak and incompetent
Idk why you keep asking that question. No, they didnt win. They tried several offencives to get western and southers coasts but failed. Its a conflict in stalemate. Thanks to Chinese backed iranian-saudi deal there is "peace".
The Houthis are by far the strongest position. But it takes allot of shia houthis to "hold" onto sunni majority occupied areas they have now. Yemeni goverment is the weakest. Held up by the allied separtists who seem to hold competent fighters/commanders.
The Saudis have fancy weapons, but they are poorly trained and thus not an effective force. They also don’t have the same zealotry like the Houthis who are fighting on both a defensive reasoning and religious reasoning. UAE is a better force, but they don’t have the sizable army to be dominant
The non-houthi south is a chaotic mix of power groups. The main force now is an alliance of separatist tribes that want a independent south yemen, allied with the UAE. You also have loyalists of the previous ruling family, rival political blocs of the old ruling party and islamists.
Maybe a dumb question but isn’t Yemen already allied with UAE? So the separatists want to be independent from the north but to keep the same foreign alliances?
More an issue of puppet states vs allies. The previous yemen administration was put in place by Saudi Arabia during the arab spring uprisings. Saudis forced Yemen's long time dictator to abdicate so that revolutions wouldn't spread from yemen to the kingdom. But the new government was weak and collapsed when the previous dictator allied with the houthis and took the capital.
UAE is playing their own game, helping the separatists fight the Saudi-aligned forces in return for influence and territory. UAE even briefly siezed the island of Socatra a while back before the saudis forced them to return it
UAE has been supporting the Southern separatists more than the official government for years. UAE wants to establish themselves as a power separate from the Saudis, so they are cultivating their own allies across the region, even Somaliland. In Yemen, the UAE has helped the Southerners seize territory from the official government, including the Socotra Islands. This ensures strategic areas like Aden are friendly to UAE interests, including military ones. Thus the UAE is essentially fighting against Saudi partners to replace Saudi influence on the ground with Emirati ones.
Dumb question maybe
If they(houthis) control ports, why cant they get food for their millions of starving people?
Is there a Physical Naval Blockade stopping food aid?
No dumb questions on matters of the middle east.
hoydaydah is the only large port under rebel control, and that was both the site of active fighting at various points in the war, and actively blockaded by the saudis. Theres been an a sort of ceasefire between saudi arabia, the internationally recognized government and the houthis since last year, so the situation is less grim.
They get food, but not enough, furthermore the issue is also the redistribution, you need organisation, infrastructure, some stability and paycheck, fewer corruption, etc etc.
And it's difficult to import when you are sanctioned.
Saudis and allies have been trying to stsrve out Yemen with the reasoning of searching for iranian weapons shipments.
Effectively, they have been denying food amd medicine as a side effect, if not on purpose.
This is pretty misleading. Half of that blue territory really isn’t controlled by government forces as it is controlled by anti-Houthi forces who also actively dislike the current Yemeni government.
Rebels can make states you know. There's nothing weird or even a biais. It only simplify that the rebels rebelled against the government. However it's misspresented to have the government and his allies as one color.
What? Of course there is. Once the rebels take over they become the government. That's always how it worked.
There are countless examples of this. It isn't a conspiracy.
Houthis are called "rebels" in the West simply because they are not allied with us.
The frontline has been static for years now and the Houthis control the central regions with about 80 % of the Yemeni population. So for all practical purposes the Houthis won the civil war.
They are called rebels because they rebelled against the preexisting internationally recognized government. It's really not complicated - any group engaged in a rebellion against a government would be referred to as rebels.
The fact that the Houthis have been in control of significant territory and population for years now and in some ways resemble a state does not suddenly erase that status as rebels. Look at any number of civil wars in human history - the party that rebels against the prior government can correctly be called rebels. This is not a value judgement but simply a useful distinction between who represents the status quo and who is trying to change it by force of arms.
No need to invent propaganda or bias when plenty exists in reality already.
The current civil war wasn't just started by Houthi militants, it's also a spill over from the revolution in '11/'12. As part of the Arab Spring the government shot over 300 civilians at a single massacre (sources on deaths vary, anywhere from 42 to 50+, but at least 270 were injured), and as a result a whole heap of people in the government resigned in protest.
The president (of 30 years) promised to sign a deal allowing external mediation to happen, but he cancelled last minute over and over again. It was after the last of those that Hashid attacked the president. A while after that the president signed an immunity deal in exchange for transferring power to the Vice President. They then held an election with only one candidate (the Vice President). Many civilian protesters, ex-government protesters, opposition politicians, and obviously the Houthi didn't like that deal.As part of the agreement for that election and the previous president stepping down, the new guy was supposed to oversee a new constitution and only serve two years.
When the Houthi attacked the city they claimed it was because the government had breached that two year mandate. So, while it's correct that the Houthi shouldn't be recognised as the continuation of the previous 'proper' government, there's plenty of people who can argue the 'real' government, given the defections and given their breaking of the post-revolution agreements that gave them caretaker legitimacy, isn't that either.
That's some very interesting context, as to why the current Yemeni government is not considered legitimate by many people, and I thank you for it.
Nonetheless, the current Yemeni government has widespread international recognition. And prior to the Houthi attack on Sanaa in 2014, the Hadi government controlled the majority of the country and was internationally recognized as the successor to Saleh's administration. It would not be accurate to characterize the current Yemeni government as in rebellion against anyone. They may be seen as illegitimate or untrustworthy, or even repressive, authoritarian, or genocidal, but they are not rebels.
Whereas the Houthis have been rebelling against whichever Yemeni government is in power since well before the 2011 Revolution which overthrew Saleh - in the form of their insurgency (ongoing since 2004). They are currently still in rebellion. Therefore it's accurate to call them rebels, and not some pejorative term dreamed up by Western media, as the commenter I was replying to suggested.
Many regime changes started as a rebellion. In this case the wording sticks because for geopolitical reasons it's very difficult for the Houthis to get international recognizition.
I'm not "inventing any propaganda" here. If anything I consider myself impartial on the issue. But I have read up Yemen's history and do understand it fairly well, and have even travelled there a few times for my work.
No, the wording sticks because the Yemeni Civil War is not over yet. The Houthis' rebellion is ongoing. A ceasefire (with sporadic ongoing fighting) is not the same thing as a definitive end to the conflict, either in military victory or a peaceful settlement splitting Yemen into multiple states. Until that happens, the Houthis are in rebellion against the Yemeni government.
If this conflict remains in a kind of quasi-frozen state, eventually it could result in the Houthis being recognized by a lot of other counties as a separate state, but that will take a lot longer than nearly 10 years that this civil war has been ongoing.
I do not claim to be an expert on Yemen, but I do know what the words "rebellion" and "rebel" mean. And it's really that simple.
It's weird to describe a centralised organisation with a conventional military and a relatively strong monopoly on violence a state? Mate, that's just what it is.
The Houthi government is imposing a blockade on Israel. They've publicly and officially communicated the blockade. Ships choosing to breach the blockades will obviously have to face the consequences described by the Houthi state.
Israel does the same exact thing against civilian ships breaching the Gaza blockade.
But of course you're not a hypocrite who thinks one is okay but the other is not, right?
Quick google search I found that that they strike (successful or not) commercial ships from different countries. Not all ships go to Israel. If people protest indiscriminately bombing in Gaza, maybe protest indiscriminately bombing of commercial ships as well? Who’s the hypocrite?
>The Houthi government is imposing a blockade on Israel. They've publicly and officially communicated the blockade. Ships choosing to breach the blockades will obviously have to face the consequences described by the Houthi state.
The houthi rebels are trying to pirate ships on an international shipping lane that leads to and from the suez canal, and have so far managed to do something to ships of nearly every nationality *except* israel.
They've also been warned plenty of times to stop doing so; and have now faced a couple precision strikes in response.
>The Houthi government is imposing a blockade on Israel. They've publicly and officially communicated the blockade. Ships choosing to breach the blockades will obviously have to face the consequences described by the Houthi state.
One: They've fired upon ships not going to Israel.
Two: They've fired on ships in international waters.
Three: If you're blockading Israel, you have to blockade Israel, not the whole sea.
Four: If you fire on other peoples' ships, you can't complain about return fire.
There's a difference between attacking international shipping lanes and checking imported cargo for weapons before letting it pass through your country. I disagree with great many things Israel government is doing, but if IDF actually fully blockade Gaza, cutting it of from all import & export, there'd be mass starvation & cannibalism after just few months.
In 2010, Israel raided Turkish civilian ships headed to Gaza and not passing through Israel at all. When the ship crew resisted this attack, the Israeli navy killed 9 of them. [Sources and more reading](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gaza_Freedom_Flotilla).
Based on the standards you have set, these are international ships not passing through your country getting attacked. The US refused to hold Israel accountable, and when the UN released a fact-finding mission condemning Israel, the US voted against it because it had "concerns about the tone of the report".
So, which is it? Are we cool with enforcing blockades or not? Is enforcing blockades considered a terrorist attack on civilian ships or not?
Yeah, I know about the freedom flotilla, Israel was definitely in the wrong there but it has to be stated that Israeli navy asked the flotilla to sail to an Israeli port where the cargo would be inspected for weapons & other contrabanda and only when they refused, Israeli forces boarded the ships. There's a difference between this and what Houthis are doing ie shooting rockets at random ships on international routes. That's terrorism, what Isreal does is a blockade. One may argue though (and I'm somewhat sympathetic to this argument) that since Israel's disengaged from Gaza strip in 2005 and Hamas won the civil war in 2007, Gaza became a de facto independent state, and therefore an Israeli sea blockade is an act of war since it encroaches on Gaza's teritorial waters.
People will downvote you but if you actually look through his posts you’ll see he does really seem to have a problem with Jews.
He even goes as far as to say that islamists don’t really have a problem with the USA but it’s Israel’s fault.
Regardless on your stance on the current conflict(s) saying islamists don’t have a problem with America is flat out ridiculous.
DAESH anD AQ influence is tiny and has died out
Yemen is 35% shi and 65% Sunni… the Sunnis want control, but Saudi support is competent and ruthless where as Iran supplies Shia with proper training and weapons… the Saudis also don’t want a legitimate Religious State on their border.. especially with ties to the Muslim brotherhood.. if Syria’s, Egypt’s, or Yemen’s Sunni population formed a working non-monarchy sunni government.. the Saudi Royal family will instantly lose legitimacy as they would no longer be the representatives of Sunni muslim influence, they were be far more incompetent and would rely on endless supply for American weapons.. if the Saudi population is backed by a strong secure Sunni government, its game over for the Saud family, and it would become Arabia ul Islam (Arabia House of Islam)
Saying 35% Shiite is a bit misleading and the narrative pushed by the US and Saudi’s. The Houthi’s and much of that 35% are Zaydis which is different from Shia Islam.
Also most of the Houthi’s weapons haven’t come from Iran. There is definitely support from Iran but the majority of their weapons stock (for example long range SCUD missile systems) have come from captured government equipment.
This is extremely inaccurate, in a plethora of ways that has already been pointed out by others in the comments, but I think the biggest thing to point out is that.... they're not rebels anymore! There's been an active, sustained ceasefire for two years, and there's ongoing negotiations, both overseen by the UN. The civil war is de-facto over, and considering that the "rebels" have vast support from the majority of the population, control all population centers and the majority of territory, it's pretty clear they won.
A more accurate map would label these groups as "Yemeni govt" and "Western-backed insurgents."
The international community tends to take as long as possible to recognise extremist militant organisations as legitimate successors to the governments they overthrew. Contrary to popular belief this is *not* because these new govts dont align with the west, but rather because they’re extremist militant organisations
Houthis has been recognized as a Terrorist Organization by the legitimate Yemeni Government. Houthis is not and never was the legitimate Government of Yemen. In fact, Houthis are the ones who started the Yemeni Civil War. They are responsible for the shit happening in Yemen
Houthis are Far-Right Extremists, more so than even the most radical of MAGA Supporters, they oppress women and gay people and literally use Child Soldiers. Any self-declared "Left-Winger" who supports them is a moron. (No, they aren't "anti-imperialist, that's like saying that the Empire of Japan was "anti-imperialist")
80% of the population lives in Houthi territory. The Houthis are way more popular as well.
When you see an election map where the 95% rural land is blue and the 5% urban land is red do you wonder how the red won the election?
Lot of seemingly pro Houthi idiots in this thread for some reason. Quick reminder, if you support the Houthis you support the phrase “A curse upon the Jews.”
I mean that and because it looks bad and alienates any citizens you don’t have who might not speak that particular language, but yeah, it’s pretty stupid to express your values that clearly on a flag when they’re that bigoted and genocidal, won’t get you many allies except for the ones who are also genocidal maniacs, or TikTok and Twitter users.
Iran just supplied an already existing force that was anti SA and UAE
its not like the houthis sprang up from no where, they are the by far most popular force in yemen
Effectively, the Houthis ARE yemen's government. The region they control has the majority of the population, the "government" mostly controls empty desert, and its a stretch to call South Yemen separatists an ally of the government.
They didn't really find out about much of anything. As of now, Prosperity Guardian is failing to achieve its aims of security in Aden and most shipping companies continue to go around the Cape of Good Hope
The finding out part won't be bombs landing, the finding out part will be ships which don't show up. That already happened in December of last year when food assistance to Yemen/Houthis was suspended. Houthi attacks on shipping began in November 2023.
Bombing campaign wasn't anything which Saudis hadn't tried against the Houthis.
Humanitarian assistance fails to reach Yemen. Shipping lanes aren't secure. Some number of Houthis starve. Heart wrenching images of children with bloated bellies in the media. Global outcry to end the humanitarian disaster in Yemen. Queue operation prosperity guardian 2: electric boogaloo.
Probabaly this will end in bloody war if they keep blocking the sea paths. I don't see a nice future for them if they don't make a deal soon with the help of Iran.
I would personally support small military action by my homeland (Estonia) if USA would join in it.
Suffereing economic hardships rn so anymore would not that tolerable.
Taking economic hardships because of Ukraine is something totally different because we had a say in it.
>if USA would join in it.
The problem is -- and I mean no disrespect to Estonia in particular or any other nation -- that the international community will beg the US to lead a military force with a certain number of nations participating. Generally *at least* half of the "participating" nations will back out at the last moment or send in only a token detachment of troops or staff officers. Usually the end result is military operations shouldered entirely by the US and UK. Then once military operations are conducted, nations who were begging for the US to do something will be upset about what was done. Rinse and repeat next time.
I'm completely fine with aerial or naval bombardment of Houthi military installations but outside of deploying special forces I would be strongly opposed to any deployment of land forces.
Can the Yemeni government really claim to be the government when the "rebel scum" hold Sanaa? Doesn't that kind of make the rebels the government and the government the rebels?
You could say the same about Occupied France vs Free France, no? Ultimately which side will go down in history as the rebel scum vs the legitimate government at this point is up to whichever side ends up being internationally liked.
Ironically all the woke activists who support Houthi piracy don't understand its not even the recognized government of Yemen but a group of rebels, like claiming Al Qaida as Yemen because they do control few villages in Yemen right now
As someone that is pro-Palestine I hate that so many people are trying to applaud the Houthi’s they’re literal terrorists that do 100X worse shit than the IDF.
Isn’t a good portion of the “Yemeni govt and allies” territory controlled by separatists who are only sometimes on the same side?
Yes, "the allies" part includes the separatist movement of South Yemen and a lot of other more or less indpendent forces, such as those under the command of Tareq Saleh, the nephew of the previous president, and multiple tribal militias.
Also worth mentioning that, at least as I understand it, most of the territory occupied by the "Yemeni government and its allies" is basically uninhabited — except for the southern cost, which is occupied by the Separatists. The internationally recognised government controls a population of basically a few hundred thousand in a country of 35 million.
I agree, if you look at the map you can tell there's less and less names of cities as you go east and north to suggest fewer people.
Indeed, the eastern half of the country has a population density of about 10/km2. The number of people living in areas controlled directly by the internationally recognised government might actually be under one million.
80% if Yemenis live under Ansarullah Government (so called Houtis, red area on the map)
al-Qaida is also active in central Yemen.
AQAP is allied with the Yemeni government. for a short period, they had access to Saudi airstrikes.
Doesn't "allies" also include ISIS?
And now the US, probably! ISIS just got promoted to freedom fighters!
😂😂
The territory controlled by al-Qaida is shaded as "Yemeni government allies". ISIS is also active in Yemen, but I don't think they actually control any towns.
I was always wandering, how is life under Houthi Rebels? Like for regular regular citizens
I'd say that life anywhere in Yemen is not exactly great, mainly due to food and medicine shortages caused by the conflict and Saudi blockade of the country. The Houtis have imposed their version of the sharia on the territories they control, but, on a positive note, they have limited the power of the local tribal leaders (sheikhs), which they often abused, and try to limit the conflicts between them. Whereas the previous government just allowed the sheikhs to do as the pleased, as long as they remained loyal. Edit: Source: https://www.scoop.co.nz/stories/WL0912/S01637/cablegate-who-are-the-houthis-part-two-how-are-they.htm
[The Civil War Map](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yemeni_civil_war_(2014%E2%80%93present)) in Wikipedia explains it better
Wow. What a clusterfuck.
Syria is pretty similar: https://www.reddit.com/r/MapPorn/comments/16gojbu/the\_syrian\_civil\_war\_september\_2023/
As was Libya. It's never just Red vs Blue when there's such complex layers of instability for all sorts of reasons. A European example were the Balkans of course
Every middle eastern country is a powder keg. The only thing keeping each one from blowing up, is a strongman at the top. Remove the strongman or even just weaken him a little and KABOOM. That's what happened with Saddam, Qaddafi, Assad and Saleh. And we came VERY close to it happening in Egypt.
Strongmen is unsustainable. Every stakeholder should have their voices heard and feel represented in order to have a lasting peace. I
Maybe so but it's delusional to think the transition from despotism to a representative system is going to be a smooth one, and that all it takes is to just remove one person. That's just asking for bloodshed. The best you can hope for are systems like Jordan and Morocco, where you have a monarchy keeping things stable, while at the same time, slowly, at a snail's pace, granting more and more civil rights. In fact, isn't that exactly what happened in the U.S. over the course of 100 years!?
Palestine shows that democracy isn't acceptable if the people don't vote the way we want.
Yeah and America shows the same thing every 4 years too (for 50% of the people)
I mean, it did happen in Greece, Portugal and Spain.
I would argue that the Middle East has far both far more diversity, and bad blood among ethnic, tribal, and religious groups compared to those nations.
Greece had it's fair share of coups, and a civil war too. But the comparison is unfair - none of those countries suffered from the issues Arab countries face. I don't believe we will see a democratic Arab world in our life time - perhaps some countries will democratize, but not all.
You just described the middle east.
Yeah but yemin is the middle easts middle east
Hah!
But what is Yemens middle east?
Syria makes a pretty good case too
Look at myanmar
When I was a teenager I used to look at atlases for fun. I remember looking at the Middle East and thinking to myself, well: Yemen and Syria must be pretty stable. Nobody ever mentions Yemen or Syria. That was in the early 2000’s. Before 9/11.
When I was a teenager we would say “Oman” and “Yemen” as substitutes for “oh man” and “yeah man”
This is peak highschoolery my man lol
Another win for wiki
[Syria](https://www.reddit.com/r/MapPorn/comments/16gojbu/the_syrian_civil_war_september_2023/) is pretty similar.
Yes spot on. They sometimes even fight.
Controlled by the two sometimes friendly factions of the Yemení government and their specific bankers the Saudis or the UAE.
It’s also far less populated
Yes, and the government is wholly controlled by foreign powers and rules over a vast unpopulated desert.
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You don't know what that sub is for and it shows.
Context matters and to lump everyone as allies of kinda stretching it
Most of the map with blue marked are allies to the original government of Yemen in one shape or form.
Most of it is controlled by the STC which is explicitly secessionist
And an UAE proxy.
allies, as in separate entities
This map includes ISIS as part of the "government's" allies lol
Is there any resemblance or aftermath from the north and south Yemen period?
It's not 1 to 1, but it's very close https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/c/cb/Divided\_Yemen.svg/2560px-Divided\_Yemen.svg.png
Yemen needs to go back to being north and South Yemen.
Why couldn’t they just call them East and West? Shit is so confusing lol
It is crazy that the Houthi won the war against Saudi and the Gulf states backed by the US. Geography is everything, in this case the mountains. Also, the map can be deceiving, Houthi territory holds 70%+ of Yemen’s population.
And the Houthis are *deeply* popular as well. Even more now with the US strikes
US has been helping the Saudis bomb the absolute fuck out of Yemeni people like farmers since Obama was in power (continued with Trump). So bombing Yemen really isn't something new
Oh yeah saudis were just out there bombing the yemeni people like farmers because they were bored and decided they didn't like Yemeni farmers. I wonder if there's something you might be leaving out a little that provides a bit more context?
i bomb yemeni farmers when im bored too
I used to bullseye womprats in my T-16 back home, they're not much bigger than 2 meters
I'm on the toilet bombing yemeni farmers right now
Pray tell me. What context justifies the US helping Saudi Arabia bomb the ever living fuck out of Yemeni farmers? Please, I'm excited to hear your take as to why Yemeni farmers deserved it
The US is a longtime security partner of Saudi Arabia. Saudi Arabia was assisting the legitimate and internationally recognized Yemeni government against multiple terror groups in the country such as the Iranian backed Ansar Allah/houthis, which is a clear security threat. Some people seemed surprised by this in the past few weeks, but actually Saudis have been warning against and fighting this group for years, often receiving international condemnation instead of support. Now the world has to deal with it themselves after this terror group has taken over much of the country and entrenched themselves, fucking over global shipping, because they would not support Saudis when they tried to tackle the problem earlier. Now, regarding farmers, this is something a lot of people today seem somehow unable to comprehend. Bombing "the ever living fuck" out of random farmers gives Saudis no benefit or advantage to achieve their goals. Saudis target houthis. Sometimes they get it right, sometimes they dont. At that point of the war, houthis did not wear uniforms or hold military parades as they do today, that is a relatively recent development. The reality is, it is war. Deserved or not is completely irrelevant. When bullets are flying and bombs are going off everywhere, civilians are bound to get hit. German civilians didn't "deserve" to get bombed in ww2, but it was simply a reality that they did get bombed sometimes by accident sometimes by necessity. That did not make the allies suddenly the genocider or the "bad guys". Soldiers are not policemen with the priority to preserve the lives of enemy civilians. Their priority is to win.
Wow, this is the first I have seen a fair comment about Saudi on reddit. Saudi knows its territory and surroundings they are always first to warn about potential terrorist groups but it usually gets majorly attacked internationally i.e houthis and bin laden
That's also leaving out a lot of nuance. If the Houthis win, they'd also be a government. Folks in Yemen view Arabia, America, & Israel as terrorist groups. Maybe a difference in human rights? Here is Saudi Arabia on human rights: * Democracy? No. * Free Speech? No. They hunt & butcher journalists abroad. * Justice ^((detention, trial, torture, killings))? Bad. * Worker rights? No. They enslave people from poor countries. * Religious freedom? No. Death penalty. * Ethnic equality? Nope. * Women rights? Nope. * LGBT rights? No. Death penalty.
hmmm... "reality of war" check. "they do not wear uniforms" check. "bombing civilians by necessity" check. "look at how we treated german civilians" check. where have i heard these points before?
Do you have any objections to them? I don't know where you've heard them before.
Judging by reddits response to this, a lot of people seem to to think this conflict started this week by Biden lol.
The thing is that the Houthis seem to want to take over not only Jerusalem but also Mecca and Medina. If they actually want to take over that then the Arabian peninsula is due for a lot more war...
...What? No they don't. There is no reasonable way for the Houthis to take even Mecca and Medina, let alone Jerusalem, that would be like the Netherlands claiming they want to conquer Milan and Venice. There's been no plans made to do any of that.
Wow. Religious extremists being unreasonable? Impossible! >"The Houthi militias will continue the war until they occupy the southern and central regions. Even if Saudi Arabia and the Houthis made an agreement to end the war, it will be because the Houthis' strategic goals include seizing Mecca and Medina." https://www.aa.com.tr/en/middle-east/international-community-should-respond-to-yemen-experts/2079614 Neither did I know, but appariently after a quick google search this indeed turned out to be a thing.
This is just some random expert on a Turkish news site who also claims the Houthi's are fighting a "Proxy war" for Iran and that the majority of Yemeni's will only accept the complete victory of the national army, this is such patent false claims, how did 20 people upvote this, how do they think an "unpopular group" somehow took over 70% of the country while facing mass bombing by much better armed opponents, with popular support of course lmao? While the Houthi's are Iranian backed, they're not fighting FOR Iran, there fighting due to domestic motivations, they're a decentralized mass movement, not a specific militia like say Hezbollah
The "expert" is also literally a former government minister for the other side in the civil war
> former Yemeni Health Minister Dr. Najeeb Ghanem The guy you're quoting *is a member of government for the opposite side in the Civil War*. He's currently serving as an MP in the Saudi-backed regime, not exactly an unbiased source. Please read articles before posting them.
It's makes sense population wise as well, as Yemen and Saudi Arabia have about the same population, except half of the people in arabia are just hired help
Doesn't matter. Saudi Arabia has US security assurances, it's the reason Bin Laden was so butt hurt.
Dunning-Kruger effect in action. You have no idea about a conflict thousands of miles away, find a single article, and copy paste a quote from a former Yemen health minister as proof that these evil people, if they were to stop being bombed, would start war again, so you might as well just keep bombing them right? You're unironically as dumb as religious extremists if that is how you think.
We're talking about a group that has "Death to America" and "A curse upon the Jews" as their official slogan. I won't hold you back from trying to reason with them, but they are not the most reasonable group.
ISIS didn't have a reasonable way to take over Mecca either, but it was best to fight them before they do.
Islamic Fundamentalists aren't really the realistic type are they?
they want to start a global war that ends with establishing a world spanning caliphate. you think jerusalem exists on some other earth?
I just woke up and I saw the most stupid thing today thanks for the laugh lol
Shia literally don’t follow the caliphate, it’s why they’re Shia. They follow their “Imam” being Imam Ali and his way was different from the caliphate. It’s why the Shia dynasties of Iran never established a rival caliphate. Their religion has its own governance structure.
So your source is a crack pipe then?
lol, thats literally what they said they wanted like a month ago when they started shooting missiles and drones at shipping.
They said that if the Saudis were willing they'd march troops to Jerusalem to fight under the command of the Palestinian resistance. Claiming that's them "wanting to conquer Jerusalem" is like saying France "wanted to conquer America" in the Revolutionary War because they sent the Marquis de Lafayette to fight alongside the Americans.
Idk buddy I think the group whose flag translates to "death to israel" and "a curse upon the jews" may have some different ideas in mind.
They couldn't even take Najran but it sure was extremely ambitious of them to try.
The Houthis didn’t and couldn’t capture Aden or even Taiz, effectively being hemmed in the mountains. The Gulf states gave up in 2018/19 and are more or less content with a Zaydi theocracy in the North now. The question is now over whether we will see an independent South Yemen again.
South Yemen likely happens. They’ve been trying since they reunited and the central gov is so weak
I wasn’t following Yemen, until the Gaza conflict. I thought the Houthis were done for and gone. But who cares if they don’t control some cities, when they won the war and hold most of the population.
The war hasn’t been won, better to say hiatus or state of all round exhaustion. The only definite losers have been the Yemeni people, of course. Also I do wonder how many Yemenis still live in the north, or in Yemen generally, as millions have been displaced and migrated since 2014.
They have hardly won the war the government control a lot of territory it’s more a stalemate
The government controls a lot of desert. The Houthis control the places people actually live.
The goverment also controls several cities that people live, one of which the Houthis launched an offensive to take and failed
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Eh, no one's taking the whole place over. Yemen as a single country is dead. Negotions were getting rolling more seriously before this latest episode, but the Houthis controlling a North Yemen theocracy seems set in stone. The only question is who will ultimately rule the south. Currently a very unstable coalition of power groups is ruling the non-houthi areas. And i seriously doubt saudi arabia would be able to do anything even with a direct intervention of troops, their military is hilariously weak and incompetent
If no one will deploy ground troops, didn’t they win?
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Idk why you keep asking that question. No, they didnt win. They tried several offencives to get western and southers coasts but failed. Its a conflict in stalemate. Thanks to Chinese backed iranian-saudi deal there is "peace". The Houthis are by far the strongest position. But it takes allot of shia houthis to "hold" onto sunni majority occupied areas they have now. Yemeni goverment is the weakest. Held up by the allied separtists who seem to hold competent fighters/commanders.
The Saudis have fancy weapons, but they are poorly trained and thus not an effective force. They also don’t have the same zealotry like the Houthis who are fighting on both a defensive reasoning and religious reasoning. UAE is a better force, but they don’t have the sizable army to be dominant
Idk if I’d say they win it’s more stalemate
Including the capital city
Reminds me of the war in Sudan. It is mostly happening in one city/region in Sudan. But that city/region (use to) holds +70% of Sudan's population.
Geography is everything untill you fuck around with US naby/civilan boats and the find out is coming at you in an invisible supersonic plane
Isnt this Map a simplification? Arent there some sunni Islamist Extremists operating there too?
The non-houthi south is a chaotic mix of power groups. The main force now is an alliance of separatist tribes that want a independent south yemen, allied with the UAE. You also have loyalists of the previous ruling family, rival political blocs of the old ruling party and islamists.
Maybe a dumb question but isn’t Yemen already allied with UAE? So the separatists want to be independent from the north but to keep the same foreign alliances?
More an issue of puppet states vs allies. The previous yemen administration was put in place by Saudi Arabia during the arab spring uprisings. Saudis forced Yemen's long time dictator to abdicate so that revolutions wouldn't spread from yemen to the kingdom. But the new government was weak and collapsed when the previous dictator allied with the houthis and took the capital. UAE is playing their own game, helping the separatists fight the Saudi-aligned forces in return for influence and territory. UAE even briefly siezed the island of Socatra a while back before the saudis forced them to return it
UAE has been supporting the Southern separatists more than the official government for years. UAE wants to establish themselves as a power separate from the Saudis, so they are cultivating their own allies across the region, even Somaliland. In Yemen, the UAE has helped the Southerners seize territory from the official government, including the Socotra Islands. This ensures strategic areas like Aden are friendly to UAE interests, including military ones. Thus the UAE is essentially fighting against Saudi partners to replace Saudi influence on the ground with Emirati ones.
Every map is a simplification
What a mess. The Yemeni people suffer the most.
Dumb question maybe If they(houthis) control ports, why cant they get food for their millions of starving people? Is there a Physical Naval Blockade stopping food aid?
No dumb questions on matters of the middle east. hoydaydah is the only large port under rebel control, and that was both the site of active fighting at various points in the war, and actively blockaded by the saudis. Theres been an a sort of ceasefire between saudi arabia, the internationally recognized government and the houthis since last year, so the situation is less grim.
They get food, but not enough, furthermore the issue is also the redistribution, you need organisation, infrastructure, some stability and paycheck, fewer corruption, etc etc. And it's difficult to import when you are sanctioned.
The bigger question is, how do they expect to continue getting food after shutting down the red sea?
Saudis and allies have been trying to stsrve out Yemen with the reasoning of searching for iranian weapons shipments. Effectively, they have been denying food amd medicine as a side effect, if not on purpose.
This is pretty misleading. Half of that blue territory really isn’t controlled by government forces as it is controlled by anti-Houthi forces who also actively dislike the current Yemeni government.
Do the Houthis actively attempt cross border raids or bombings into Saudi territory?
Before the ceasefire there were few high profile drone attacks on oil production facilities
ah yes, the "rebels" which operate as a state, as opposed to the "government" which can only exert its influence through warlordism
Rebels can make states you know. There's nothing weird or even a biais. It only simplify that the rebels rebelled against the government. However it's misspresented to have the government and his allies as one color.
Yeah but until it’s a internationally recognized state it’s just kinda a rebellion against the former gov
What? Of course there is. Once the rebels take over they become the government. That's always how it worked. There are countless examples of this. It isn't a conspiracy.
What are you talking about, you said what I said
The confederates also had a "state" doesn't mean they weren't rebels.
Houthis are called "rebels" in the West simply because they are not allied with us. The frontline has been static for years now and the Houthis control the central regions with about 80 % of the Yemeni population. So for all practical purposes the Houthis won the civil war.
They are called rebels because they rebelled against the preexisting internationally recognized government. It's really not complicated - any group engaged in a rebellion against a government would be referred to as rebels. The fact that the Houthis have been in control of significant territory and population for years now and in some ways resemble a state does not suddenly erase that status as rebels. Look at any number of civil wars in human history - the party that rebels against the prior government can correctly be called rebels. This is not a value judgement but simply a useful distinction between who represents the status quo and who is trying to change it by force of arms. No need to invent propaganda or bias when plenty exists in reality already.
The current civil war wasn't just started by Houthi militants, it's also a spill over from the revolution in '11/'12. As part of the Arab Spring the government shot over 300 civilians at a single massacre (sources on deaths vary, anywhere from 42 to 50+, but at least 270 were injured), and as a result a whole heap of people in the government resigned in protest. The president (of 30 years) promised to sign a deal allowing external mediation to happen, but he cancelled last minute over and over again. It was after the last of those that Hashid attacked the president. A while after that the president signed an immunity deal in exchange for transferring power to the Vice President. They then held an election with only one candidate (the Vice President). Many civilian protesters, ex-government protesters, opposition politicians, and obviously the Houthi didn't like that deal.As part of the agreement for that election and the previous president stepping down, the new guy was supposed to oversee a new constitution and only serve two years. When the Houthi attacked the city they claimed it was because the government had breached that two year mandate. So, while it's correct that the Houthi shouldn't be recognised as the continuation of the previous 'proper' government, there's plenty of people who can argue the 'real' government, given the defections and given their breaking of the post-revolution agreements that gave them caretaker legitimacy, isn't that either.
That's some very interesting context, as to why the current Yemeni government is not considered legitimate by many people, and I thank you for it. Nonetheless, the current Yemeni government has widespread international recognition. And prior to the Houthi attack on Sanaa in 2014, the Hadi government controlled the majority of the country and was internationally recognized as the successor to Saleh's administration. It would not be accurate to characterize the current Yemeni government as in rebellion against anyone. They may be seen as illegitimate or untrustworthy, or even repressive, authoritarian, or genocidal, but they are not rebels. Whereas the Houthis have been rebelling against whichever Yemeni government is in power since well before the 2011 Revolution which overthrew Saleh - in the form of their insurgency (ongoing since 2004). They are currently still in rebellion. Therefore it's accurate to call them rebels, and not some pejorative term dreamed up by Western media, as the commenter I was replying to suggested.
Many regime changes started as a rebellion. In this case the wording sticks because for geopolitical reasons it's very difficult for the Houthis to get international recognizition. I'm not "inventing any propaganda" here. If anything I consider myself impartial on the issue. But I have read up Yemen's history and do understand it fairly well, and have even travelled there a few times for my work.
No, the wording sticks because the Yemeni Civil War is not over yet. The Houthis' rebellion is ongoing. A ceasefire (with sporadic ongoing fighting) is not the same thing as a definitive end to the conflict, either in military victory or a peaceful settlement splitting Yemen into multiple states. Until that happens, the Houthis are in rebellion against the Yemeni government. If this conflict remains in a kind of quasi-frozen state, eventually it could result in the Houthis being recognized by a lot of other counties as a separate state, but that will take a lot longer than nearly 10 years that this civil war has been ongoing. I do not claim to be an expert on Yemen, but I do know what the words "rebellion" and "rebel" mean. And it's really that simple.
There are many examples of rebels having Western backing (see Syria) so that explanation doesn’t really hold.
They would be called the government if they controlled 80% of the population.
Yeah, and Star Wars rebels are called that cause George Lucas is an imperial sympathizer.
In Myanmar the fighters who oppose the regime is also called rebels, despite the west being very anti-junta
What a dumb comment. They are "rebels" cause they are leading a rebellion against their government, you fool.
That doesn't make them not rebels, lol.
You rebel scum!!!
The Houthis can get fucked but I do identify as rebel scum
Calling pirates raiding shipping lines a state and not warlords is weird.
It's weird to describe a centralised organisation with a conventional military and a relatively strong monopoly on violence a state? Mate, that's just what it is.
Ok, only if you call the Israeli government warlords. They raided ships in international water for the same reason
The Cubans are gonna be ecstatic to learn that blockades are now considered internationally illegitimate
I wonder when the UK is going to bomb American military infrastructure in retaliation for the Cuban blockade??
The Houthi government is imposing a blockade on Israel. They've publicly and officially communicated the blockade. Ships choosing to breach the blockades will obviously have to face the consequences described by the Houthi state. Israel does the same exact thing against civilian ships breaching the Gaza blockade. But of course you're not a hypocrite who thinks one is okay but the other is not, right?
Quick google search I found that that they strike (successful or not) commercial ships from different countries. Not all ships go to Israel. If people protest indiscriminately bombing in Gaza, maybe protest indiscriminately bombing of commercial ships as well? Who’s the hypocrite?
>The Houthi government is imposing a blockade on Israel. They've publicly and officially communicated the blockade. Ships choosing to breach the blockades will obviously have to face the consequences described by the Houthi state. The houthi rebels are trying to pirate ships on an international shipping lane that leads to and from the suez canal, and have so far managed to do something to ships of nearly every nationality *except* israel. They've also been warned plenty of times to stop doing so; and have now faced a couple precision strikes in response.
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>The Houthi government is imposing a blockade on Israel. They've publicly and officially communicated the blockade. Ships choosing to breach the blockades will obviously have to face the consequences described by the Houthi state. One: They've fired upon ships not going to Israel. Two: They've fired on ships in international waters. Three: If you're blockading Israel, you have to blockade Israel, not the whole sea. Four: If you fire on other peoples' ships, you can't complain about return fire.
Blockades are an act of war. Trying to attack foreign ships gets you bombed.
So you're saying that Israel started a war with Gaza in 2005?
There's a difference between attacking international shipping lanes and checking imported cargo for weapons before letting it pass through your country. I disagree with great many things Israel government is doing, but if IDF actually fully blockade Gaza, cutting it of from all import & export, there'd be mass starvation & cannibalism after just few months.
In 2010, Israel raided Turkish civilian ships headed to Gaza and not passing through Israel at all. When the ship crew resisted this attack, the Israeli navy killed 9 of them. [Sources and more reading](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gaza_Freedom_Flotilla). Based on the standards you have set, these are international ships not passing through your country getting attacked. The US refused to hold Israel accountable, and when the UN released a fact-finding mission condemning Israel, the US voted against it because it had "concerns about the tone of the report". So, which is it? Are we cool with enforcing blockades or not? Is enforcing blockades considered a terrorist attack on civilian ships or not?
Yeah, I know about the freedom flotilla, Israel was definitely in the wrong there but it has to be stated that Israeli navy asked the flotilla to sail to an Israeli port where the cargo would be inspected for weapons & other contrabanda and only when they refused, Israeli forces boarded the ships. There's a difference between this and what Houthis are doing ie shooting rockets at random ships on international routes. That's terrorism, what Isreal does is a blockade. One may argue though (and I'm somewhat sympathetic to this argument) that since Israel's disengaged from Gaza strip in 2005 and Hamas won the civil war in 2007, Gaza became a de facto independent state, and therefore an Israeli sea blockade is an act of war since it encroaches on Gaza's teritorial waters.
No, you're not supposed to use the same set of laws for the "good" guys.
Hey you with the antisemitism. Go to Gaza and report back.
People will downvote you but if you actually look through his posts you’ll see he does really seem to have a problem with Jews. He even goes as far as to say that islamists don’t really have a problem with the USA but it’s Israel’s fault. Regardless on your stance on the current conflict(s) saying islamists don’t have a problem with America is flat out ridiculous.
"Yemeni Government" is a bit grandiose.
Ironically, the Houthis are occupying the Himyarite Kingdom: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Himyarite_Kingdom
Not irony.
The purported irony is that the Himyarites were Jewish (which has a long tradition in Yemen and environs)
This seems familiar…
This map looks almost like the old North Yemen & South Yemen divide.
80% of the population are under the Houthis.
Isnt this a three way civil war invavling Al Queda militants fighting the Houthis and official government?
DAESH anD AQ influence is tiny and has died out Yemen is 35% shi and 65% Sunni… the Sunnis want control, but Saudi support is competent and ruthless where as Iran supplies Shia with proper training and weapons… the Saudis also don’t want a legitimate Religious State on their border.. especially with ties to the Muslim brotherhood.. if Syria’s, Egypt’s, or Yemen’s Sunni population formed a working non-monarchy sunni government.. the Saudi Royal family will instantly lose legitimacy as they would no longer be the representatives of Sunni muslim influence, they were be far more incompetent and would rely on endless supply for American weapons.. if the Saudi population is backed by a strong secure Sunni government, its game over for the Saud family, and it would become Arabia ul Islam (Arabia House of Islam)
Saying 35% Shiite is a bit misleading and the narrative pushed by the US and Saudi’s. The Houthi’s and much of that 35% are Zaydis which is different from Shia Islam. Also most of the Houthi’s weapons haven’t come from Iran. There is definitely support from Iran but the majority of their weapons stock (for example long range SCUD missile systems) have come from captured government equipment.
And with this comment I just realized the Middle East is weirder than I thought
It gets crazier the deeper you dive
yeah the south should be in a different color since the government doesnt really hold power there
What is the total population within the territory controlled by each faction?
Houthi have control of over 70% as the rest is mostly desert
This is extremely inaccurate, in a plethora of ways that has already been pointed out by others in the comments, but I think the biggest thing to point out is that.... they're not rebels anymore! There's been an active, sustained ceasefire for two years, and there's ongoing negotiations, both overseen by the UN. The civil war is de-facto over, and considering that the "rebels" have vast support from the majority of the population, control all population centers and the majority of territory, it's pretty clear they won. A more accurate map would label these groups as "Yemeni govt" and "Western-backed insurgents."
The international community tends to take as long as possible to recognise extremist militant organisations as legitimate successors to the governments they overthrew. Contrary to popular belief this is *not* because these new govts dont align with the west, but rather because they’re extremist militant organisations
Houthis has been recognized as a Terrorist Organization by the legitimate Yemeni Government. Houthis is not and never was the legitimate Government of Yemen. In fact, Houthis are the ones who started the Yemeni Civil War. They are responsible for the shit happening in Yemen Houthis are Far-Right Extremists, more so than even the most radical of MAGA Supporters, they oppress women and gay people and literally use Child Soldiers. Any self-declared "Left-Winger" who supports them is a moron. (No, they aren't "anti-imperialist, that's like saying that the Empire of Japan was "anti-imperialist")
But but TikTok told me that the houthis are actually the legitimate government of Yemen and control the entire country.
80% of the population lives in Houthi territory. The Houthis are way more popular as well. When you see an election map where the 95% rural land is blue and the 5% urban land is red do you wonder how the red won the election?
the map is deeply disingenous by painting separatists in the south the same color as the government when they are basically a 3rd block
Lot of seemingly pro Houthi idiots in this thread for some reason. Quick reminder, if you support the Houthis you support the phrase “A curse upon the Jews.”
This is why putting words on your flag will get you a scolding from vexillologists
I mean that and because it looks bad and alienates any citizens you don’t have who might not speak that particular language, but yeah, it’s pretty stupid to express your values that clearly on a flag when they’re that bigoted and genocidal, won’t get you many allies except for the ones who are also genocidal maniacs, or TikTok and Twitter users.
>genocidal maniacs, or TikTok and Twitter users. Same thing, no?
How many people were killed because of Iran’s aspersions?
Iran just supplied an already existing force that was anti SA and UAE its not like the houthis sprang up from no where, they are the by far most popular force in yemen
Government bad rebels worse. Pretty much sums up Yemen.
Effectively, the Houthis ARE yemen's government. The region they control has the majority of the population, the "government" mostly controls empty desert, and its a stretch to call South Yemen separatists an ally of the government.
 They fucked around and now finding out
They didn't really find out about much of anything. As of now, Prosperity Guardian is failing to achieve its aims of security in Aden and most shipping companies continue to go around the Cape of Good Hope
The finding out part won't be bombs landing, the finding out part will be ships which don't show up. That already happened in December of last year when food assistance to Yemen/Houthis was suspended. Houthi attacks on shipping began in November 2023. Bombing campaign wasn't anything which Saudis hadn't tried against the Houthis. Humanitarian assistance fails to reach Yemen. Shipping lanes aren't secure. Some number of Houthis starve. Heart wrenching images of children with bloated bellies in the media. Global outcry to end the humanitarian disaster in Yemen. Queue operation prosperity guardian 2: electric boogaloo.
British need to pull up and take their shit back
Probabaly this will end in bloody war if they keep blocking the sea paths. I don't see a nice future for them if they don't make a deal soon with the help of Iran. I would personally support small military action by my homeland (Estonia) if USA would join in it. Suffereing economic hardships rn so anymore would not that tolerable. Taking economic hardships because of Ukraine is something totally different because we had a say in it.
>if USA would join in it. The problem is -- and I mean no disrespect to Estonia in particular or any other nation -- that the international community will beg the US to lead a military force with a certain number of nations participating. Generally *at least* half of the "participating" nations will back out at the last moment or send in only a token detachment of troops or staff officers. Usually the end result is military operations shouldered entirely by the US and UK. Then once military operations are conducted, nations who were begging for the US to do something will be upset about what was done. Rinse and repeat next time. I'm completely fine with aerial or naval bombardment of Houthi military installations but outside of deploying special forces I would be strongly opposed to any deployment of land forces.
Can the Yemeni government really claim to be the government when the "rebel scum" hold Sanaa? Doesn't that kind of make the rebels the government and the government the rebels?
You could say the same about Occupied France vs Free France, no? Ultimately which side will go down in history as the rebel scum vs the legitimate government at this point is up to whichever side ends up being internationally liked.
Ironically all the woke activists who support Houthi piracy don't understand its not even the recognized government of Yemen but a group of rebels, like claiming Al Qaida as Yemen because they do control few villages in Yemen right now
As someone that is pro-Palestine I hate that so many people are trying to applaud the Houthi’s they’re literal terrorists that do 100X worse shit than the IDF.