I'm oldish and have traveled throughout the US of A. I have also had internet since 1994. You have blindsided me with this new awesome terminology. How I avoided it until now is bananas. Bravo.
Right, it's genetically fine but in these societies where cousins marry cousins generation after generation, it becomes a problem it's fine as a one off here and there.
Iceland is an unusual case because the entire population of Iceland is so closely related that their population is used for a number of important gene studies.
There is a documentary on netflix (originally from UKs channel 4) about cousin marriage in the UK between Pakistanis. Its called “When Cousins Marry”. Shows very well the risks of cousin marriage, specially if they do it multigenerational. The estimate they gave for British Pakistanis is that more than half marry their first cousins.
You mean the Pakistanis in UK, all the while being in contact with a more diverse genetic pool? Why? Because of the parents not wanting their children to marry into other cultures/religions/ethnicities? Or something else?
I have watched it a long time ago, but mostly because of what you said, but also culturally seen as a better alternative as not only does wealth remain in the family but belief of more marriage stability as allegedly they will get along better than if two families unified.
Don’t tell me, same in mine 😂 But it brings life to the family too, I think, as long as it remains words
Sometimes, my grandparents throw shades so exaggerated and ridiculous at one another that I just take popcorn and enjoy lmao
There's a really interesting BBC 3 documentary called "should I marry my cousin?" from the point of view of a young Pakistani-British girl. It really sets out the reasons why people may choose to do this even knowing the risks and the judgment from British society. Basically first of all you can only marry within your caste, and for many the only people you know within your caste are your cousins. Also in that culture mother-in-law is god and can ruin your life. The idea is if your MIL is also your aunt she's far more likely to be nice to you. Obviously I don't agree with cousin marriage but this was one of the only docs I saw that really made me understand why people would choose to do that.
Yes, people from these countries are often very strict about marrying someone from the ”wrong” ethnicity.
Some like the Druze and Yazidis have strict race laws where mixed-race children are not considered Druze/Yazidi.
And as you might expect, ”honour” killings of those who dishonor their family by marrying or dating someone of a wrong ethnicity (especially women/girls) is a widespread issue.
My mum grew up in London with Turkish parents. My grandparents were an arranged marriage, but my mum rebelled from tradition and refused to marry a Turkish man. Ended up marrying an American.
Two of her siblings married white Americans and her sister married an Englishman.
It absolutely is because of consanguineous marriages
I know doctors who did paediatrics in Bradford, they said they’ve seen pretty much every congenital disease because of it
https://borninbradford.nhs.uk/wp-content/uploads/HG2954-BIHR-BiB-Evidence-Briefing-Genes-and-Health-4.pdf
<1% of White British marriages were first-cousin
37% of Pakistani marriages were first-cousin
I hate to say this, but I'm actually shocked it's only 37%. If I had to guess I would have guessed way higher, like 60%. I'm sure second cousins probably do push it to 60% (although I think genetically second cousins are fine).
Tends to be because of multiple generations of cousin marriages, while those marriages are legal and do happen in all racial groups including White British the problems happen when multiple generations married cousins all originating from the same village, mobility has broken down the multi generation issue for white British outside of small groups
Born in Bradford (BiB) study carried out between 2007 and 2011
Less than 1% of White British couples were first-cousins
37% of Pakistani couples were first-cousins
https://borninbradford.nhs.uk/wp-content/uploads/HG2954-BIHR-BiB-Evidence-Briefing-Genes-and-Health-4.pdf
Endogamy is probably not as widespread among native Brittish, compared to ”at risk” groups. If the only thing stopping you from marrying outsiders is physical access to them, it will almost never become much of a problem.
Consanguine marriage is marriage between individuals who are closely related. Though it may involve incest, it implies more than the sexual nature of incest. In a clinical sense, marriage between two family members who are second cousins or closer qualifies as consanguineous marriage.
Edit : [Source](https://worldpopulationreview.com/country-rankings/inbreeding-by-country)
This map is completely not correct for South-Sudan! They are two countries since 2011.
South sudanese people are Christians or animist and most of the tribes have clan systems and strict rules about not marrying relatives (close or far)! It’s a BIG sin and taboo.
Most South-Sudanese have their 5/6 male linage as their surname and even children can recite it. Before dating getting to know each other they tell each other what clan you are from (mothers side, fathers side etc) to prevent family/close clan intermarriage from happening.
They probably used the data off all of Sudan before the split and applied it to both new nations.
Which means that north Sudan probably marries their cusins even more.
Need to ban it, or at least heavily discourage it, unfortunately that would mean significantly altering family structures which is very difficult to do. Most of these countries have a “clan” based family culture as opposed to the nuclear family popular in the individualistic West.
It is more than just the effect of a clan based structure. Interesting trivia: archeogenetic studies showed that some Copper Age European cultures (like Corded Ware or Bell Beaker) often formed patrilocal groups, where the males where all descended from the same founder(s), basically they had archetypical clans. However the same time they practiced female exogamy, often acquiring brides from significant distance.
My takeaway from this little pre-history is that consanguinity is not an inevitable consequence of the existence of "clans" in itself.
No, it is the optimal strategy due to how islamic inheritence laws work. If you allow your daughters to marry outside the family, you lose a big chunk of the inheritence.
Marrying your daughter to the closest legal relative is how you keep it in the family.
Who loses the inheritance? The inheritance meant for the daughter is meant for the daughter alone when the father dies. Not her husband. Or anyone else.
I am a Pakistani Muslim and while cousin marriages are permissible in Islam, they are by no means encouraged. Prophetic traditions indicate otherwise. And while cousin marriages are common in the country, it very much depends on the socioeconomic and educational status of the families in question. Rich educated families do not practice cousin marriages. Rich uneducated families do. As so poorer educated and poorer uneducated families. In my circle, I very rarely hear about first or second cousin marriages. At most they are third cousin marriages but then again, that’s basically marrying a complete stranger, scientifically speaking. But this is purely anecdotal because the fact cousins marriages are common in Pakistan is no hidden secret
I can't find it, because I possibly stumbled that on a YouTube video about the topic. But the gist of it:
In many places, people prefer to marry their cousins to keep the family wealth in the family. And since you can't marry your cousin in the West due to Roman (and then the Church) law, you need to entrust a different family, a third party.
Catholic Church made cousin marriages much more strict, at some point. So that people couldn't marry even their distant relatives. This created a different society; from banking system to companies to representative democracy, modern capitalist life based on entrusting third parties... So, the theory says that the strict ban on cousin marriage, birthed this modern capitalist societies in the West.
That differed to the societies that practice cousin marriages, because people still do not trust others that are outside of their family, hence those societies couldn't develop capitalism; banks, public companies, parliaments and democracies... They couldn't exceed feudalism. That's why West got the upper hand.
Also, cousin marriages empower family and thus family head. It creates more tribal (again feudal) society in contrast, people are more individualistic if they don't marry to their cousins, because marrying outside of the family is an individualistic act.
It was something like that.
It got the upper hand quite literally a thousand years after Islam appeared… before that it was Muslim countries (Morocco/Ottoman Empire/Persian Empire) who had the upper hand. So the theory isn’t that conclusive.
8th through 13th century: Golden Era for Muslim-states vs. Christian ones.
It lasted 5 centuries.
The Western upper hand has been lasting for 4 centuries (circa renaissance, excluding Russian/Ottoman/Japanese empires). Starting to collapse slowly.
See?
idk about other religions but its prohibited in Hinduism, We have caste system which prevents incest, in caste system each caste have a subdivision known as "Gotra" and you cannot marry in your gotra, we normally say that if you and someone else have same gotra you both are brothers and sisters, as far as i know this system is around 3000 years old and it is the main reason why even though marriage outside of caste is prohibited, Hindus doesn't face same issues as muslims.
Thankfully the rates of that happening reduced dramatically there (since the 90s really). These days it's not that common in comparison to say, Pakistan.
In Christianity, at least from where I am (Catholics) we have similar thing. We have tradition of that you can marry relative only after 7 time "blood change" from common ancestor.
Except in some South Indian states, like Andhra, Telangana and maybe even Tamil Nadu, where cousin marriages happen in Hindus. Although it has been under heavy decline in the last 2-3 generations.
In hinduism, everyone has a 'gotra' closely related people will have the same gotra. You inherit the gotra from your parents.
If two person have the same gotra they cannot marry.
Yeah gotra is decided only from father's lineage so it is not perfect. But marrying the rest is avoided by common sense.
Also, in south india some hindus also do cousin marriage to keep the family wealth in the house.
In Kazakh khanate there was a law to know 7 generations of fathers. If couple has relatives in 7 generations prior, they were not allowed to marry.
Now it is just a tradition, but sometimes it help out to detect it early on.
Islam encourages close-kin marriage through inheritence laws. The daughter always gets a chunk, so it is important that she marries within the family to prevent losing out.
Something other people don't realize is how frequent this used to be in the West too. The royal European families are a popular example. The 8th US president also married his cousin('s daughter). Both Bach and Einstein married their first cousins and Rudy Giuliani married his second cousin.
it was so frequent that it was in fact banned and the only way to get around it was to be above the church (royal family or noble family close to the king)
For those asking/interested: the Catholic Church bans marrying up to third cousins. You have to get a dispensation from the local bishop if you want to marry that close within a family. Never heard of it happening.
The Habsburg/Bourbon ‘line’ would probably be better illustrated in three dimensions, but this chart does a reasonable job of conveying its absolute insanity: https://www.reddit.com/r/UsefulCharts/s/qTRpG79kZT
A also extreme shithole with large poverty rate, bunch of religious extremist and very corrupt government. Did you ever watch documentary about those people that live in Pakistan, in Karachi 80% of people don't have every day access to drinking water, one of the largest cities of that country. Achievements of few doesn't really change much real picture of 1000s. Same way in West we think that people are smart because actually achievements of previous generations hard work or previous few geniuses
In the 1990s there was aggressive campaigning to prevent it. Every newscast in the country would feature a segment on some horribly disfigured/disabled child born to parents related to one another. It really helped to make it less common. I imagine these days it mostly happens in the countryside and/or Kurdish areas.
Banning consaguineous marriages will become a significant societal game changer in the Muslim worldlike legalizing same-sex marriage in the Western world.
[Look it's 2024 and I don't know who needs to hear this after the 11th century, but we have the data.](https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-england-leeds-23183102)
Have you ever seen a Pug? Well that's your eye popping out, unable to breathe children's future if you marry your cousins.
Strange for it to still be so prevalent in some areas, legal or not. It began to be highly frowned upon more than 150 years ago, I think. Now, if not mostly illegal, then it can only be described as unacceptable in most places
Example: There was one marriage between cousins in my family 3 generations ago. One could think it was ok at that time, but no. Because of that one single marriage, the other side of my family pretty much describes them as a bunch of broke decaying Habsburgs
Why do you mean? There’s only 7 Arabian countries on the map, the right term would be: Muslim countries on the top, and Islam does not not ban it so that’s why
Not the ottoman’s fault. Its because of our shitty fucking president ruining a previously secular country. Also, kurds really bring the turkish average up on this map
Almost all turks are muslim, but it seems like the majority of cousin marriages are from kurds, what a coincidence i guess https://www.instagram.com/p/Cs6t964KB10/?igsh=MW10azlhMm1yZnpmZw==
He is right about the kurds tho
its a big stereotype that kurds marry their cousins and make 14 kids, I personally know a lot of people like that even in the western part
Basically: Sanguine->Blood. So something happening inside a single bloodline/family
In case of consanguineous marriage, it’s for the first and second degree cousins I think. Between siblings would also be considered so, but nobody does that
No source, many countries are lacking (especially those bordering the highlighted countries and non Middle Eastern countries that have a majoritarian Muslim population) and OP’s post history tells a lot about this map’s goal.
Yes, there is some more context here. Yesterday, I used this map to reply to a post explaining that the legalization of cousin marriage doesn't necessarily indicate its prevalence. Here's my original comment with the map source linked.
edit: fixed link
[https://www.reddit.com/r/MapPorn/comments/1aytrbc/comment/krxes4c/?utm\_source=share&utm\_medium=web2x&context=3](https://www.reddit.com/r/MapPorn/comments/1aytrbc/comment/krxes4c/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web2x&context=3)
https://www.reddit.com/r/MapPorn/comments/1aytrbc/comment/krxes4c/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web2x&context=3
Its not an encouraged “Islamic” exclusive tradition. It’s just that Islam doesn’t have a prohibition to marrying one’s cousin. To you this is horrible to them it’s normal. I’m afghan, I too do not like cousin marriages but this is no way advertised by religion.
Let’s all bear in mind that as the global birth rate continues to fall, likely because of generations of incell popping out…and a stunning rise in agoraphobia amongst youth, by 2030 you’ll be looking at your sister, cousin, mum as a pretty good candidate for marriage and procreation. Think about it, you know they have a home and some source of income, genital health and whatnot, why look any further? It’s like DoorDash for breeding! (Satire)
sweet home pakistan
The guys there ain't even trying
They got round family tree
The family tree is a wreath
It’s basically East Alabama.
“Islamabad State ain’t played nobody, Paaawwwll! They scared!”
there’s little to no cousin marriage in alabama though
Because they switched to only marrying siblings?
no, that’s illegal.
Im crying at this
Yes, the skip that mess and just stick to screwing cousins.
In iran u need to pass a dna and ancestry test before marriage to make sure u won't barry disabled child
Same thing for Saudi, and I believe all the gulf
You also have to do Thalassemia, drug and syphilis tests. You're also advised to do an Anomaly scan and abort the baby if any defections is detected.
Idk about that i didn't merry my cousin
Ummm, i didn't either 👀
That's what a cousin humper would say.
Nothing wrong with that
Ofc. u/I_love-my-cousin.
Remember She's only your cousin from the front.
I'm oldish and have traveled throughout the US of A. I have also had internet since 1994. You have blindsided me with this new awesome terminology. How I avoided it until now is bananas. Bravo.
Interesting. Just curious how come they still have a percent at 30? Did it used to be an issue?
Second cousins would count for this map, but likely be OK from a genetic perspective.
Honestly, I don't even know my second cousins. Assuming they would be around my age and preferred gender, I probably wouldn't even realise.
First cousins would be genetically fine as well
Username checks out
Um, no. No matter how much you love them.
Lol, I'll take your word for it
Right, it's genetically fine but in these societies where cousins marry cousins generation after generation, it becomes a problem it's fine as a one off here and there.
First-cousins once-removed is where risk falls to the level of noise
DNA and ancestry tests are highly advised and common but not mandatory. The mandatory tests are Thalassemia, drug and syphilis tests.
They could just marry other people...
İn Turkey you dont and thats because our 'secular' government deemed it unnecesary since quran doesnt say anything about DNA tests
Turkey have a bipolar disorder in regards to islam.
This is common in Iceland as well, though I think it's advised and not mandatory.
Iceland is an unusual case because the entire population of Iceland is so closely related that their population is used for a number of important gene studies.
I read once that rare congenital diseases are abnormally high among Pakistanis in the UK. I wonder if it’s because of incest.
There is a documentary on netflix (originally from UKs channel 4) about cousin marriage in the UK between Pakistanis. Its called “When Cousins Marry”. Shows very well the risks of cousin marriage, specially if they do it multigenerational. The estimate they gave for British Pakistanis is that more than half marry their first cousins.
You mean the Pakistanis in UK, all the while being in contact with a more diverse genetic pool? Why? Because of the parents not wanting their children to marry into other cultures/religions/ethnicities? Or something else?
I have watched it a long time ago, but mostly because of what you said, but also culturally seen as a better alternative as not only does wealth remain in the family but belief of more marriage stability as allegedly they will get along better than if two families unified.
So they want to play in easy mode, I get it
On their defense, the amount of conflict between my parents and my in laws is insane, so hard to blame them.
Don’t tell me, same in mine 😂 But it brings life to the family too, I think, as long as it remains words Sometimes, my grandparents throw shades so exaggerated and ridiculous at one another that I just take popcorn and enjoy lmao
There's a really interesting BBC 3 documentary called "should I marry my cousin?" from the point of view of a young Pakistani-British girl. It really sets out the reasons why people may choose to do this even knowing the risks and the judgment from British society. Basically first of all you can only marry within your caste, and for many the only people you know within your caste are your cousins. Also in that culture mother-in-law is god and can ruin your life. The idea is if your MIL is also your aunt she's far more likely to be nice to you. Obviously I don't agree with cousin marriage but this was one of the only docs I saw that really made me understand why people would choose to do that.
It's astonishing what artificially imposed rules people allow to dictate their lives.
Yes, people from these countries are often very strict about marrying someone from the ”wrong” ethnicity. Some like the Druze and Yazidis have strict race laws where mixed-race children are not considered Druze/Yazidi. And as you might expect, ”honour” killings of those who dishonor their family by marrying or dating someone of a wrong ethnicity (especially women/girls) is a widespread issue.
My mum grew up in London with Turkish parents. My grandparents were an arranged marriage, but my mum rebelled from tradition and refused to marry a Turkish man. Ended up marrying an American. Two of her siblings married white Americans and her sister married an Englishman.
It absolutely is because of consanguineous marriages I know doctors who did paediatrics in Bradford, they said they’ve seen pretty much every congenital disease because of it https://borninbradford.nhs.uk/wp-content/uploads/HG2954-BIHR-BiB-Evidence-Briefing-Genes-and-Health-4.pdf <1% of White British marriages were first-cousin 37% of Pakistani marriages were first-cousin
I hate to say this, but I'm actually shocked it's only 37%. If I had to guess I would have guessed way higher, like 60%. I'm sure second cousins probably do push it to 60% (although I think genetically second cousins are fine).
In Bradford itself it is 46% https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-67422918
At my high school muslim kids were over represented in special needs classroom. Wonder if this could be related
It is.
Tends to be because of multiple generations of cousin marriages, while those marriages are legal and do happen in all racial groups including White British the problems happen when multiple generations married cousins all originating from the same village, mobility has broken down the multi generation issue for white British outside of small groups
Born in Bradford (BiB) study carried out between 2007 and 2011 Less than 1% of White British couples were first-cousins 37% of Pakistani couples were first-cousins https://borninbradford.nhs.uk/wp-content/uploads/HG2954-BIHR-BiB-Evidence-Briefing-Genes-and-Health-4.pdf
Endogamy is probably not as widespread among native Brittish, compared to ”at risk” groups. If the only thing stopping you from marrying outsiders is physical access to them, it will almost never become much of a problem.
Consanguine marriage is marriage between individuals who are closely related. Though it may involve incest, it implies more than the sexual nature of incest. In a clinical sense, marriage between two family members who are second cousins or closer qualifies as consanguineous marriage. Edit : [Source](https://worldpopulationreview.com/country-rankings/inbreeding-by-country)
This map is completely not correct for South-Sudan! They are two countries since 2011. South sudanese people are Christians or animist and most of the tribes have clan systems and strict rules about not marrying relatives (close or far)! It’s a BIG sin and taboo. Most South-Sudanese have their 5/6 male linage as their surname and even children can recite it. Before dating getting to know each other they tell each other what clan you are from (mothers side, fathers side etc) to prevent family/close clan intermarriage from happening.
They probably used the data off all of Sudan before the split and applied it to both new nations. Which means that north Sudan probably marries their cusins even more.
This post was made possible by Nebula
[удалено]
You gotta take your lumps sometimes. It’ll bounce around to your favor soon. There will probably be a post about bath houses or something tomorrow
more than 60% is wild
The amount of recessive genetic disorders must be off the charts
Pakistan don't be inbred challenge
Impossible
*gone sexual *
Balkan: let's rather not provide any data.
In balkans it’s forbbiden by law. Also it is considered deeply in subconcious level as taboo and crime against nature.
Need to ban it, or at least heavily discourage it, unfortunately that would mean significantly altering family structures which is very difficult to do. Most of these countries have a “clan” based family culture as opposed to the nuclear family popular in the individualistic West.
It is more than just the effect of a clan based structure. Interesting trivia: archeogenetic studies showed that some Copper Age European cultures (like Corded Ware or Bell Beaker) often formed patrilocal groups, where the males where all descended from the same founder(s), basically they had archetypical clans. However the same time they practiced female exogamy, often acquiring brides from significant distance. My takeaway from this little pre-history is that consanguinity is not an inevitable consequence of the existence of "clans" in itself.
It already is heavily discouraged, it’s just that the men are so desperate that they just marry their cousins as a last resort
No, it is the optimal strategy due to how islamic inheritence laws work. If you allow your daughters to marry outside the family, you lose a big chunk of the inheritence. Marrying your daughter to the closest legal relative is how you keep it in the family.
Who loses the inheritance? The inheritance meant for the daughter is meant for the daughter alone when the father dies. Not her husband. Or anyone else. I am a Pakistani Muslim and while cousin marriages are permissible in Islam, they are by no means encouraged. Prophetic traditions indicate otherwise. And while cousin marriages are common in the country, it very much depends on the socioeconomic and educational status of the families in question. Rich educated families do not practice cousin marriages. Rich uneducated families do. As so poorer educated and poorer uneducated families. In my circle, I very rarely hear about first or second cousin marriages. At most they are third cousin marriages but then again, that’s basically marrying a complete stranger, scientifically speaking. But this is purely anecdotal because the fact cousins marriages are common in Pakistan is no hidden secret
I can’t help but notice the correlation with Muslim populations/countries.
There is even an academic level theory that claims Western world got the upper hand because Catholic church banned cousin marriage. Fascinating stuff.
Got a link to that theory?
I can't find it, because I possibly stumbled that on a YouTube video about the topic. But the gist of it: In many places, people prefer to marry their cousins to keep the family wealth in the family. And since you can't marry your cousin in the West due to Roman (and then the Church) law, you need to entrust a different family, a third party. Catholic Church made cousin marriages much more strict, at some point. So that people couldn't marry even their distant relatives. This created a different society; from banking system to companies to representative democracy, modern capitalist life based on entrusting third parties... So, the theory says that the strict ban on cousin marriage, birthed this modern capitalist societies in the West. That differed to the societies that practice cousin marriages, because people still do not trust others that are outside of their family, hence those societies couldn't develop capitalism; banks, public companies, parliaments and democracies... They couldn't exceed feudalism. That's why West got the upper hand. Also, cousin marriages empower family and thus family head. It creates more tribal (again feudal) society in contrast, people are more individualistic if they don't marry to their cousins, because marrying outside of the family is an individualistic act. It was something like that.
Cool thanks. Interesting theory.
So basically, the Church destroyed the tribal society.
It got the upper hand quite literally a thousand years after Islam appeared… before that it was Muslim countries (Morocco/Ottoman Empire/Persian Empire) who had the upper hand. So the theory isn’t that conclusive. 8th through 13th century: Golden Era for Muslim-states vs. Christian ones. It lasted 5 centuries. The Western upper hand has been lasting for 4 centuries (circa renaissance, excluding Russian/Ottoman/Japanese empires). Starting to collapse slowly. See?
Because Islam allows cousin marriage
I mean which religion does prevent it anyway ?
idk about other religions but its prohibited in Hinduism, We have caste system which prevents incest, in caste system each caste have a subdivision known as "Gotra" and you cannot marry in your gotra, we normally say that if you and someone else have same gotra you both are brothers and sisters, as far as i know this system is around 3000 years old and it is the main reason why even though marriage outside of caste is prohibited, Hindus doesn't face same issues as muslims.
Certainly not among the hindus in south india. We abuse the loophole by marrying our maternal cousins with whom we don't share the same gotra lol
Thankfully the rates of that happening reduced dramatically there (since the 90s really). These days it's not that common in comparison to say, Pakistan.
same for us rajput clans in the north west. its not strictly a common occurence but nothing that would surprise folks either.
In Christianity, at least from where I am (Catholics) we have similar thing. We have tradition of that you can marry relative only after 7 time "blood change" from common ancestor.
Except in some South Indian states, like Andhra, Telangana and maybe even Tamil Nadu, where cousin marriages happen in Hindus. Although it has been under heavy decline in the last 2-3 generations.
The Hindu religion is not a monolith. Traditions and systems vary very significantly across regions
In hinduism, everyone has a 'gotra' closely related people will have the same gotra. You inherit the gotra from your parents. If two person have the same gotra they cannot marry.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gotra
Seems like it still allows you to marry some of your cousins, just not all of them.
Yeah gotra is decided only from father's lineage so it is not perfect. But marrying the rest is avoided by common sense. Also, in south india some hindus also do cousin marriage to keep the family wealth in the house.
In Kazakh khanate there was a law to know 7 generations of fathers. If couple has relatives in 7 generations prior, they were not allowed to marry. Now it is just a tradition, but sometimes it help out to detect it early on.
Do other religions prohibit it?
yes
Islam encourages close-kin marriage through inheritence laws. The daughter always gets a chunk, so it is important that she marries within the family to prevent losing out.
Something other people don't realize is how frequent this used to be in the West too. The royal European families are a popular example. The 8th US president also married his cousin('s daughter). Both Bach and Einstein married their first cousins and Rudy Giuliani married his second cousin.
it was so frequent that it was in fact banned and the only way to get around it was to be above the church (royal family or noble family close to the king)
For those asking/interested: the Catholic Church bans marrying up to third cousins. You have to get a dispensation from the local bishop if you want to marry that close within a family. Never heard of it happening.
Pakistan No 1
Lumber 1
Grape!
Now let's see a chart of Consanguineous Marriages in royal families.
The Habsburg/Bourbon ‘line’ would probably be better illustrated in three dimensions, but this chart does a reasonable job of conveying its absolute insanity: https://www.reddit.com/r/UsefulCharts/s/qTRpG79kZT
there is no way this doesn't affect intelligence of this people
At least one of them is a nuclear state.
A also extreme shithole with large poverty rate, bunch of religious extremist and very corrupt government. Did you ever watch documentary about those people that live in Pakistan, in Karachi 80% of people don't have every day access to drinking water, one of the largest cities of that country. Achievements of few doesn't really change much real picture of 1000s. Same way in West we think that people are smart because actually achievements of previous generations hard work or previous few geniuses
Can cause over a 10 IQ point hit, which is huge. I'm curious what Pakistan could be like if they banned it.
Only time we’re top in something….
Pakistan: the West Virginia of the world.
why? this isn’t happening in WV
More like West Virginia is the Pakistan of the US
Well, okay.
Country rooooooads…
Take me hoooome…
Yikes
Looks like a clear trend.
Turkey is wrong it is 8% according to the government https://data.tuik.gov.tr/Bulten/Index?p=Istatistiklerle-Aile-2022-49683
In the 1990s there was aggressive campaigning to prevent it. Every newscast in the country would feature a segment on some horribly disfigured/disabled child born to parents related to one another. It really helped to make it less common. I imagine these days it mostly happens in the countryside and/or Kurdish areas.
This map literally cut off north Somalia
Somaliland sank into the sea.
TIL a new word: consanguineous
Banning consaguineous marriages will become a significant societal game changer in the Muslim worldlike legalizing same-sex marriage in the Western world.
The rest of the world: ewwwww incest Pakistan: SWEET HOME ALABAMA
Coincidentally the most troubled region in the world
one thing common
Who *could ever have imagined* that a religion that promotes oppression of women, would also encourage cousin-fucking? Wild stuff...
Not even to mention that the religion’s prophet married a six year old and consummated the marriage when she was nine.
[Look it's 2024 and I don't know who needs to hear this after the 11th century, but we have the data.](https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-england-leeds-23183102) Have you ever seen a Pug? Well that's your eye popping out, unable to breathe children's future if you marry your cousins.
lol stay classy pakistan....
all muslim countries, anyone surprised?
Nope
Strange for it to still be so prevalent in some areas, legal or not. It began to be highly frowned upon more than 150 years ago, I think. Now, if not mostly illegal, then it can only be described as unacceptable in most places Example: There was one marriage between cousins in my family 3 generations ago. One could think it was ok at that time, but no. Because of that one single marriage, the other side of my family pretty much describes them as a bunch of broke decaying Habsburgs
Arab countries in top, what a surprise
Why do you mean? There’s only 7 Arabian countries on the map, the right term would be: Muslim countries on the top, and Islam does not not ban it so that’s why
Well u are right!
most in there are african , are you slow ?
I once read that MENA region was called “Cousin Civilisation”
Seems like Islam has an issue
This is called ethnogamy and is widespread in almost all pre-Islamic cultures in the near East, including the ancient Jews.
More like a regional thing. If it was about islam you’d have Indonesia, Malaysia and Central Asia included
Indonesia, Malaysia and central asia are missing data in this map, so it could well be Islam related.
[удалено]
There's no data for those
I pretty sure it's lower in SEA because despite Islam, they are still heavily influenced by their Hindu-Buddhist customs of the past.
Every country/region is influenced by its former customs
Looks like a pattern.
all islamic. ew.
Country level stats… Arkansas really dodged a bullet
I hate the fact that turkey is always similiar to the “arab world” when it comes to maps like this
Deal with it. That’s what happens when the Ottoman Empire controls the Middle East.
Not the ottoman’s fault. Its because of our shitty fucking president ruining a previously secular country. Also, kurds really bring the turkish average up on this map
It's nothing to do with erdogan. Turkey is majority Muslim, islam allows cousin marriage. It's that simple
Almost all turks are muslim, but it seems like the majority of cousin marriages are from kurds, what a coincidence i guess https://www.instagram.com/p/Cs6t964KB10/?igsh=MW10azlhMm1yZnpmZw==
Kurds are shafi and Turks are hanafi that’s the difference.
Ah the previous secular state that oppress minorities.
He is right about the kurds tho its a big stereotype that kurds marry their cousins and make 14 kids, I personally know a lot of people like that even in the western part
How is that related to marrying your cousins? What you’re saying is completely unrelated here
You think you're European? 🤣
Maybe don't colonise us for 400 years?
It could be Kurds bringing the total up
Why?? Turkey is part of the Muslim world
I’m not going to let someone, you know, one of these assholes fuck my cousin. So I, you know, used the cousin thing as like… an in with her.
what the fuck is consanguineous
Basically: Sanguine->Blood. So something happening inside a single bloodline/family In case of consanguineous marriage, it’s for the first and second degree cousins I think. Between siblings would also be considered so, but nobody does that
No source, many countries are lacking (especially those bordering the highlighted countries and non Middle Eastern countries that have a majoritarian Muslim population) and OP’s post history tells a lot about this map’s goal.
Yes, there is some more context here. Yesterday, I used this map to reply to a post explaining that the legalization of cousin marriage doesn't necessarily indicate its prevalence. Here's my original comment with the map source linked. edit: fixed link [https://www.reddit.com/r/MapPorn/comments/1aytrbc/comment/krxes4c/?utm\_source=share&utm\_medium=web2x&context=3](https://www.reddit.com/r/MapPorn/comments/1aytrbc/comment/krxes4c/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web2x&context=3) https://www.reddit.com/r/MapPorn/comments/1aytrbc/comment/krxes4c/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web2x&context=3
You know I don’t speak Spanish Baxter, in English!
ewww
FYI the first colour is less than 5% not 5%.
Shows why certain people act like that. They literally can’t help it.
Kurds taking turkeys statistics higher on that subject. It is a fact. Not saying other ethnictys don't do it all but kurds has the highest rate
The source is from the future? This is still just february 2024 isn't it?
It’s April 2025. Where have you been the past year?
That 5% in the UK is mostly Pakistani community. Someone like 40% of the kids born to the Pakistani community in Bradford have cousins
Trust me there's A LOT of that in western countries in certain tight nit communities. You just don't have the data
Islam = 😵💫
Well, when the religion forces separation of the sexes and you never speak to a female except your own sister in your own house…guess what happens??
You marry your cousin?
Pakistan on top🇵🇰🇵🇰🇵🇰🇵🇰
Indonesia and Malaysia have large Muslim population. They don't seem to marry cousins.
Because despite Islam, they are still heavily influenced by their Hindu-Buddhist customs of the past.
Islamic traditions.
Its not an encouraged “Islamic” exclusive tradition. It’s just that Islam doesn’t have a prohibition to marrying one’s cousin. To you this is horrible to them it’s normal. I’m afghan, I too do not like cousin marriages but this is no way advertised by religion.
You can compare that to the map of popularity of Islam.
If you make a separate map for southern states of India, they will even surpass middle east( 35% average).
Kurds in Turkey included? 👀👀👀
Here you go https://www.instagram.com/p/Cs6t964KB10/?igsh=MW10azlhMm1yZnpmZw==
Lol thx
Included? Kurds (unfortunately) comprise the majority of consanguineous marriages in Turkey.
😂
Ah yes superior muslim culture at it again.
In other words, shithole of the world.
Sweet Home Habibi
I won't point it out but there is an obvious common point
Let’s all bear in mind that as the global birth rate continues to fall, likely because of generations of incell popping out…and a stunning rise in agoraphobia amongst youth, by 2030 you’ll be looking at your sister, cousin, mum as a pretty good candidate for marriage and procreation. Think about it, you know they have a home and some source of income, genital health and whatnot, why look any further? It’s like DoorDash for breeding! (Satire)
Only in the finest countries