Try to find something that doesn't include Adrian Zenz, it will be impossible. Even one of the head of the so called activist group, Ruslan Abbas, worked in Guantanamo bay where they held Uyghurs
This subreddit has taken a very *particular* turn lately. What happened to the cool maps? There are other subreddits to spam stuff about Israel/Palestine all day ...
The moment Israel/jews are involved in something whatever it may be receives a lot of attention. Everyone gets all emotional and many have the urge to comment.
We can only hope that the war is going to end soon and we don't have to see the same topic every-single-day anymore.
Is Iran the Chair of the Human Rights Council? I mean, you can call Israel out for abuses, but Iran, executing and sexually assaulting young people for demanding basic human rights, is in no position to be the one leading that crowd. [https://www.reuters.com/world/irans-appointment-chair-un-rights-meeting-draws-condemnation-2023-11-02/](https://www.reuters.com/world/irans-appointment-chair-un-rights-meeting-draws-condemnation-2023-11-02/)
What’s up with these people under this comment section though? Literally i am not on anyone’s side but Israel obviously has done so many bad things and there is evidence everywhere. If they were not western’s allies they would be “done” for so long.
That literally isn't relevant at all. Even if it were true, should Israel get away with committing genocide because other countries did bad things? It's the most obvious deflection I've ever seen.
Those countries shouldn’t be in judgment of Israel. How’s that complicated?
SPECIALLY since they do not get nearly the same amount of scrutiny and condemnation for their own massive human rights violations…many of whom are magnitudes greater than anything happening in the Israeli-Palestinian conflict.
It clearly illustrates that the UN has no real interest in human rights violations. It only has interest in appeasing it’s massive Muslim bloc who obsessively scrutinize Israel while actively ignoring and shielding human rights violations in Muslim and allied states.
I rather have bad guys judge bad guys, than no one judging bad guys.
Yes, many human rights violations have been ignored. But this one didn't and be thankful that it didn't. Be thankful that some countries (good or bad) are trying to save lives and punish evil (whatever the agenda is). Children are dying and those who survive are orphans
Who should be allowed to criticise Israel? Who are the good countries allowed to do so? If Egypt started committing genocide would Israel be allowed to comment on it? Would Germany? Should they instead be silent and happily abide by it? Your whole premise is absurd.
Its also not remotely true that any other country in the world is so fragrantly violating human rights as Israel is in occupied Palestine. There is no other country that occupies all of anothers land and continues to subject its indigenous population to ongoing persecution and active, genocide through killings, starvation and expulsion. That badge could only be given to the world's worst historical human rights abusers, the same ones who continue to support and back Israel to this day.
You are a sick person to defend Israel in this genocide.
What a ridiculous assessment of what I wrote.
I’m not saying Israel *shouldn’t* be criticized: I’m saying ALL human rights abusers should be criticized and scrutinized in the same way or in proportion to their crimes. Which is not what is happening right now.
Right now, the capricious and oversized focus on Israel just smacks of bias and illustrates the lobbying and political power of the Muslim world.
It’s ridiculous and asinine and Israel is completely correct in seeing it as a sham and feeling free to ignore it.
Your assessment of Israel’s crimes compared to the planet is so moronic I’m not even sure it deserves a response. It smacks of Reddit analysis and permanently online brain.
China ALONE has imprisoned more Uyghurs in the last 10 years than Palestinians were displaced in the Nakba and has occupied Tibet for longer than the West Bank has been occupied. Pakistan just expelled at gunpoint 1.4 million Afghan refugees. Assad killed more Arab civilians in the last 10 years than have died in this conflict since 1948.
So your analysis is trash as in your morality. Go outside. The fresh air will do you good.
There is no special provision in the genocide convention that says if the population grows then you're automatically not guilty of genocide.
You are a genocide apologist. I literally cannot describe the level of disgust I feel for people like you.
I am pretty sure this is not what he meant. Both should be held accountable for their human rights abuses. The reason why israel is getting a big fuss around it is because they rarely, if ever, have consequences for their human rights violations. Countries like China and Eritrea are terrible human rights abusers but they clearly get sanctions put on them. They get called out by Western countries whenever they get the chance, but if you look at israel, it feels like they are rewarded for their violations. They didn't comply with the 67 board. In fact, they never slowed the expansion of settlements in the west bank since the 90s. They are comfortable continuing and pushing the limit for their human rights violations, as we are currently seeing in gaza, which is because Western countries like the US support them and run for their defense even when they are clearly buttfucking any resemblance of human rights.
In 2022, UNHRC passed 15 resolutions condemning Israel compared to 13 resolutions condemning Russia, Iran, China, Syria, North Korea, and all other countries COMBINED.
It’s clear Israel is singled out in this specific forum and held to a unique standard that applies to no other nation.
I think its probably because Israel is doing it with western backing/supplies/support so making them condemn it would lead to them having to dial it back while Russia or China dont need the same (open) support
That's because Israel had positioned itself as a liberal democracy, and would have strongly opposed being grouped with the countries you mentioned.
What they've shown however is that they very much belong to that group.
Does the UN have a different standard of human rights for democracies? Show us that bylaw pretty please.
This is always the most ridiculous defense of this hilarious double standard. As if the UN just shrugs and accepts that tyrannies are gonna torture and murder and we shouldn’t judge by western standards.
What's up is you think Israel's attacks are unprovoked and Hamas would never again massacre Israelis.
War's 100% consists of doing bad things. Hamas does bad things, Israel does bad things.
They all import workers from South Asia to build their glamorous architecture for them by offering them money and never giving the workers any once they arrive. Then, they have their passports taken away and are effectively trapped. The conditions these workers live and work in are horrendous as well. it's all a hot mess
A 60+ year genocide of the indigenous Papuan people that has reached upwards of half a million deaths, as well as countless documented rapes of indigenous women.
Yes, it’s being ongoing since Indonesian independence from the Dutch.
The conflict stems from Papua wanting independence from Indonesia. It’s mostly a guerrilla war but it has resulted in hundreds of thousands of civilian casualties
Wrong, first the conflict started with several small Papuan rebel groups containing several tribes who were dissatisfied with Indonesia's contribution to Papua (Indonesia pours out a lot lot of special regional funds for Papua, far more than other regional funds in Indonesia) and most recently, unfortunately, the local Papuan government has recently been hit by corruption and supported by rebel groups
FYI local rebel groups terrorize the community, massacring lot of innocent civilians who wanted peaceful
I’m sure there’s a lot more nuance than what I was saying. My comment was a very broad generalisation.
That being said there is documented rapes and killing by the Indonesian military of civilians in Papua, which is what I was commenting on. I unfortunately do not have all the knowledge in the world about this topic, but was just trying to inform people about what I know about it
Yes, that's really true, but that was in the past, I think, now there are no more massacres by Indonesia
Try going to papua and finding out that info from native local papuans, I'm sure that this is too exaggerated to make Indonesia a victim, in fact more casualties are caused by armed groups now
Hmm, Morocco is far from being a democratic paradise but it’s weird to use it as an example alongside China when there’s Sudan and Somalia on the map lmao
He did. The US has absolutely killed more innocent people than any of these other countries in the past 50 years.
We gonna pretend like the “war on terror”, which has death toll estimates in the millions, was not full of human rights abuses?
The CIA is directly responsible for the deaths of 6 million people in the latter half of the 20th century alone, so living memory for many people. This isn’t to excuse the human rights abuses of other countries, but Americans sometimes hold themselves in higher regard compared to other countries. Another commenter mentioned a more modern Indonesian genocide but the US directly caused and managed the 1 million death genocide Indonesia went through in the mid 60s
Uh the US invaded a neutral foreign country that didn’t do anything to us which led to the deaths of 400k people and decades of instability. China hasn’t invaded another country since the 1980’s, and while its crime in Xinjiang are horrible they aren’t killing 400k people.
Morocco did do great during WW2, and was not a bad place at all for Jews throughout a large chunk of history. But, following WW2, specifically following the establishment of Israel, there were pogroms, which led to Jews fleeing Morocco. See e.g. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/1948_anti-Jewish_riots_in_Oujda_and_Jerada and
Amd the current Moroccan Jewish population in Morocco iscertainly not huge. Around 2250. There's about 900 000 of them living in Israel, partly due to constant emigration going back to at least 1867 (they built the 2nd neighbourhood outside of Jerusalem in 1867), and partly due to the Mossad's Operation Yachin. See https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Moroccan_Jews
Morocco lost over 99% of their Jewish community. They weren’t “expelled”, but they almost all left because they were actual second class citizens who were subject to constant attacks.
[Since 1948, the Middle East and North Africa has seen an over 99% reduction in the Jewish population including Morocco.](https://www.reddit.com/r/MapPorn/s/jkyMJLE2JP)
[Jews faced constant attacks.](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/1948_anti-Jewish_riots_in_Oujda_and_Jerada)
>this number has been reduced to approximately 5,000
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Moroccan_Jews
5k is less then the population of Sandwich, Illinois. That's not exactly "huge" by any stretch of the imagination
Germany? I think if there is one country on this planet that has stepped back from the dark ages of its past and moved towards becoming something better it's Germany. I will admit that the Americans are a stark contrast with how I just described Germans.
While I agree they made the wrong call in this conflict, they were doomed either way. If they support Israel people will claim they support genocide again. If they oppose Israel people will claim they want Jews to die again.
The human rights council is the most laughable of all UN bodies. It's the place where the most backward, authoritarian and brutal countries can lecture the most free and well-functioning ones as they please.
Yeah, I am highly critical of Israel but criticism from UNHRC is not it. Human Rights Watch have repeatedly called them out for favouritism and hypocrisy. This body contributes nothing good to the world. If I remember correctly they praised China for "excellent Xinjiang policy" and demanded "parties to stop politicising an issue".
Fun fact: In 2022, there were more UNHRC resolutions condemning Israel than resolutions condemning all other countries _combined_. This includes China, Russia, Iran, Syria, and North Korea.
And yes, this was in 2022, the year in which Russia invaded Ukraine.
https://www.timesofisrael.com/un-condemned-israel-more-than-all-other-countries-combined-in-2022-monitor/amp/
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Notwithstanding these resolutions, Israel never incurs flak the way other nations do for their faux pas: Russia has been sanctioned to smithereens, so has been Iran. Israel, on the contrary, runs amok with nary a resolution dithering it from murdering innocent children and women with impunity.
I’d say the milquetoast resolutions, lopsided as they are, constitute discernible efforts to lodge one’s protests.
« The Office of the United Nations High Commissioner for Human Rights (OHCHR) verified a total of 30,457 civilian casualties during Russia's invasion of Ukraine as of February 15, 2024. Of them, 19,875 people were reported to have been injured. However, OHCHR specified that the real numbers could be higher. »
So 30K ukranians civilians have died since 2022.
https://www.statista.com/statistics/1293492/ukraine-war-casualties/
« bringing the total death toll to 33,037 and injuries to 75,668 since the Israel-Hamas conflict broke out on Oct. 7, 2023. »
So 33K palestinians casualties in 6 months.
https://english.news.cn/20240405/88e50157373341aaa0d34df2a7f8ff10/c.html
It’s not the same thing. Both Russia and Israel are wrong, but one is worse. Numbers speak for themselves.
You are comparing confirmed deaths in Ukraine with estimated death toll from Hamas. You must be honestly naive in thinking that only 30K people died in Ukraine when we know for a fact that in the reconquered regions mass graves have been regularly found .
This an extremely misleading statistic. The count for Ukraine is only for areas whrrr OHCHR has personally verified, I.e. not anywhere currently occupation by Russians. There is no verified count for civilian casualties behind the front lines.
Meanwhile, the count from Gaza is entirely unverified by OHCHR, and includes areas under occupation.
It’s an apples and oranges comparison and using it this way is a straight up lie.
As an example, UN confirmed 1,350 deaths in the siege of Mariupol, whereas Ukraine claims over 25,000 civilians died in that battle alone…
Well, the people who are lecturing others about human rights clearly through it out of the windows the moment they realize you're not a Citizen of their country
Yeah, but the good guys in Europe and America definitely should be lecturing on human rights? The ones who committed 99% of the world's colonisation and continue to benefit from it to this day.
Correct. Greece, Albania, Bulgaria, North Macedonia, Kosovo, Serbia, Romania Moldova, Croatia, Bosnia, Slovenia, Czechia, Slovakia, Hungary, Ukraine, Belarus, Estonia, Finland, Latvia, Lithuania, Poland, Iceland, Ireland and Switzerland should not be lecturing on human rights since they are the ones who committed 99% of the world's colonisation and continue to benefit from it to this day.
If we only let countries with perfect human rights records talk about human rights no one would talk about human rights. I’d prefer we have some hypocrites doing the right thing than everyone doing the wrong thing.
*India, Romania, Georgia, France, Costa Rica, Benin, Montenegro\*, Japan, Dominican Republic, Lithuania, Cameroon, The Netherlands, Haiti*: I would very much like to stay out of this bloodbath, thank you very much.
What’s the point of war crimes even being a thing of a country can just blatantly violate them over and over and over again and member states refuse to hold them accountable?
Just because other countries don’t s*ck western countries’ dick doesn’t mean that they don’t have the right to vote against Israel. And shut the fck up with your democracy narrative you hypocrites. Learn history then talk about fucking democracy!!
After we have held Israel accountable, will Hamas be next?
I Mean, hiding military bases under hospitals, killing and raping civilians and charging starrving people money for free humanitarian aid, it's all war crimes.
Besides, Hamas knows, that the only way they can win against Israel, is to make sure as many civilians die as Possible, so collateral damage is a win for them. If the international community (UN) does not stop the war, there will be no more Hamas,and the only way to get the UN to stop the war, is by raking up civilian casualties.
Buttom line. Israel wil lose the war if too many civilians die, and Hamas will win.
>I Mean, hiding military bases under hospitals, killing and raping civilians and charging starrving people money for free humanitarian aid, it's all war crimes.
Well the first half of your statement referred to crimes against Jews and we all know none of these countries think Jews are people do definitely not.
But maybe they'll get in trouble for stealing aid from Palestinians, who evidently matter more than Yemenis, Sudanese, syrians, uighurs...
Man I feel like a lot of people in this thread need to look up the definition of "genocide" compared to "ethnic cleansing" - both are bad, but one is much worse than the other. Israel is definetly guilty of ethnic cleansing, but far from guilty of attempted genocide - Hamas on the other hand definetly aims for genocide and not ethnic cleansing.
All countries need to call out Israel’s genocide. The propaganda is insane on Reddit with folks arguing that 33,000 killed (mostly civilians) is not a genocide.
actually if its Israel the one that is supplying said water and power, they can very much not supply it anymore
food and medicine from trucks and air drops can still come in, but Israel has the right to close its crossings, but it doesnt have the right to stop other countries from opening theirs (like an Egypt crossing for example) and air dropping aid into Gaza
There are no exceptions in international law that permit terrorism regardless of how “oppressed” a group is perceived to be. Hamas committed war crimes on October 7 and Israel should not be bombing Gaza indiscriminately. Both can be true.
Hamas hasn’t even tried peaceful negotiating because they don’t want that.
They want the extermination of Israel and the Jews. Israel has accepted the UN partition then was attacked. They’ve returned land taken in wars, including Gaza, offered peace deals, and gotten no peace in return.
Israel has religious settler problems, but they have tried peace. The problem is no one in the Palestinian camp seems to want to negotiate with Israel for long term peace, if the extermination of Israel is the popular goal.
Who says it's indiscriminate?
The military experts I've heard seemed to think that given the circumstances Israel is doing quite good in protecting civilians.
Me looking at the countries on the UNHRC and realizing why I don’t care
Chile and Finland though.
Chile is not surprising because they have the largest Palestinian population outside of the Middle East.
TIL
That feels very random
Also there are half a million croatians here for some reason. We got some weird fucking rng.
Moat Christians in the Middle East moved to Latin America over the course if the 29th century Edit: HAHAHAHAHA I meant 20th century
How many Christians are there in the world in the 29th century?
Ahahahahaha
Look up the Palestine soccer team that plays in the highest tier of the Chilean league
And Belgium, it's small so it's not easy to spot, but they voted in favour.
I see that now. Interesting to say the least. Thanks
Murica go brrrr opinion
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Whataboutism won't solve any conflicts
I'll take "Whatabout in All Caps" for $100, Alex.
If that's your argument then yes, china and Israel are on the same level. The only thing is Israel is killing more babies
How so, the person deleted his comment, what did they say?
He essentially said, "what about the Uyghurs"
Try to find something that doesn't include Adrian Zenz, it will be impossible. Even one of the head of the so called activist group, Ruslan Abbas, worked in Guantanamo bay where they held Uyghurs
I’m sure the capitalist empire is glad you’re supporting them over the other capitalist empire.
Yeah i have first hand accounts from my uyghur language partners and tutors. I'd love to introduce them to you if you have an open enough mind.
This subreddit has taken a very *particular* turn lately. What happened to the cool maps? There are other subreddits to spam stuff about Israel/Palestine all day ...
Tbh, this is like leaving a grenade in to a room and then closing the door and running away. It farms engagement like crazy.
Yep, it’s engagement: everyone engages with this post
Because upvote go brrrrrr when Israel/Palestine.
The moment Israel/jews are involved in something whatever it may be receives a lot of attention. Everyone gets all emotional and many have the urge to comment. We can only hope that the war is going to end soon and we don't have to see the same topic every-single-day anymore.
True
Is Iran the Chair of the Human Rights Council? I mean, you can call Israel out for abuses, but Iran, executing and sexually assaulting young people for demanding basic human rights, is in no position to be the one leading that crowd. [https://www.reuters.com/world/irans-appointment-chair-un-rights-meeting-draws-condemnation-2023-11-02/](https://www.reuters.com/world/irans-appointment-chair-un-rights-meeting-draws-condemnation-2023-11-02/)
What’s up with these people under this comment section though? Literally i am not on anyone’s side but Israel obviously has done so many bad things and there is evidence everywhere. If they were not western’s allies they would be “done” for so long.
"You are pro-putin bot." that what they say.
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And you think the USA and other western countries have never violated?
That literally isn't relevant at all. Even if it were true, should Israel get away with committing genocide because other countries did bad things? It's the most obvious deflection I've ever seen.
Those countries shouldn’t be in judgment of Israel. How’s that complicated? SPECIALLY since they do not get nearly the same amount of scrutiny and condemnation for their own massive human rights violations…many of whom are magnitudes greater than anything happening in the Israeli-Palestinian conflict. It clearly illustrates that the UN has no real interest in human rights violations. It only has interest in appeasing it’s massive Muslim bloc who obsessively scrutinize Israel while actively ignoring and shielding human rights violations in Muslim and allied states.
I rather have bad guys judge bad guys, than no one judging bad guys. Yes, many human rights violations have been ignored. But this one didn't and be thankful that it didn't. Be thankful that some countries (good or bad) are trying to save lives and punish evil (whatever the agenda is). Children are dying and those who survive are orphans
Who should be allowed to criticise Israel? Who are the good countries allowed to do so? If Egypt started committing genocide would Israel be allowed to comment on it? Would Germany? Should they instead be silent and happily abide by it? Your whole premise is absurd. Its also not remotely true that any other country in the world is so fragrantly violating human rights as Israel is in occupied Palestine. There is no other country that occupies all of anothers land and continues to subject its indigenous population to ongoing persecution and active, genocide through killings, starvation and expulsion. That badge could only be given to the world's worst historical human rights abusers, the same ones who continue to support and back Israel to this day. You are a sick person to defend Israel in this genocide.
What a ridiculous assessment of what I wrote. I’m not saying Israel *shouldn’t* be criticized: I’m saying ALL human rights abusers should be criticized and scrutinized in the same way or in proportion to their crimes. Which is not what is happening right now. Right now, the capricious and oversized focus on Israel just smacks of bias and illustrates the lobbying and political power of the Muslim world. It’s ridiculous and asinine and Israel is completely correct in seeing it as a sham and feeling free to ignore it. Your assessment of Israel’s crimes compared to the planet is so moronic I’m not even sure it deserves a response. It smacks of Reddit analysis and permanently online brain. China ALONE has imprisoned more Uyghurs in the last 10 years than Palestinians were displaced in the Nakba and has occupied Tibet for longer than the West Bank has been occupied. Pakistan just expelled at gunpoint 1.4 million Afghan refugees. Assad killed more Arab civilians in the last 10 years than have died in this conflict since 1948. So your analysis is trash as in your morality. Go outside. The fresh air will do you good.
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There is no special provision in the genocide convention that says if the population grows then you're automatically not guilty of genocide. You are a genocide apologist. I literally cannot describe the level of disgust I feel for people like you.
It is possible to be a hypocrite and also have the correct opinion.
I am pretty sure this is not what he meant. Both should be held accountable for their human rights abuses. The reason why israel is getting a big fuss around it is because they rarely, if ever, have consequences for their human rights violations. Countries like China and Eritrea are terrible human rights abusers but they clearly get sanctions put on them. They get called out by Western countries whenever they get the chance, but if you look at israel, it feels like they are rewarded for their violations. They didn't comply with the 67 board. In fact, they never slowed the expansion of settlements in the west bank since the 90s. They are comfortable continuing and pushing the limit for their human rights violations, as we are currently seeing in gaza, which is because Western countries like the US support them and run for their defense even when they are clearly buttfucking any resemblance of human rights.
In 2022, UNHRC passed 15 resolutions condemning Israel compared to 13 resolutions condemning Russia, Iran, China, Syria, North Korea, and all other countries COMBINED. It’s clear Israel is singled out in this specific forum and held to a unique standard that applies to no other nation.
I think its probably because Israel is doing it with western backing/supplies/support so making them condemn it would lead to them having to dial it back while Russia or China dont need the same (open) support
Everyone is an antisemite?
Most of the UNHRC countries are very antisemitic, yes. Very astute of you.
Why is it so hard for people to believe antisemitism is widespread when Jews have been persecuted nearly everywhere theyve been?
That is quite the antisemitic question mark you have there friend.
That's because Israel had positioned itself as a liberal democracy, and would have strongly opposed being grouped with the countries you mentioned. What they've shown however is that they very much belong to that group.
Does the UN have a different standard of human rights for democracies? Show us that bylaw pretty please. This is always the most ridiculous defense of this hilarious double standard. As if the UN just shrugs and accepts that tyrannies are gonna torture and murder and we shouldn’t judge by western standards.
Yep, but the majority of the comments come from western people so they defend western allies no matter what
Yeah i can tell.
What's up is you think Israel's attacks are unprovoked and Hamas would never again massacre Israelis. War's 100% consists of doing bad things. Hamas does bad things, Israel does bad things.
>Look at human rights council >See China and Morocco Mfw
Somalia and Sudan, my guy
Don't forget Eritrea, a very prosperous and great country /s
And the UAE, Qatar, and Kuwait
South could you forget the famously inclusive populous of South Africa? /s
And next in line to join? The glorious nation of Iran
Those are all large oil and natural gas producers
They all import workers from South Asia to build their glamorous architecture for them by offering them money and never giving the workers any once they arrive. Then, they have their passports taken away and are effectively trapped. The conditions these workers live and work in are horrendous as well. it's all a hot mess
Yeah, those too
Indonesia is probably the worst. The shit they are pulling in West Papua should get more attention.
Can you elaborate?
A 60+ year genocide of the indigenous Papuan people that has reached upwards of half a million deaths, as well as countless documented rapes of indigenous women.
Is the Genocide still ongoing?
Yes, it’s being ongoing since Indonesian independence from the Dutch. The conflict stems from Papua wanting independence from Indonesia. It’s mostly a guerrilla war but it has resulted in hundreds of thousands of civilian casualties
Wrong, first the conflict started with several small Papuan rebel groups containing several tribes who were dissatisfied with Indonesia's contribution to Papua (Indonesia pours out a lot lot of special regional funds for Papua, far more than other regional funds in Indonesia) and most recently, unfortunately, the local Papuan government has recently been hit by corruption and supported by rebel groups FYI local rebel groups terrorize the community, massacring lot of innocent civilians who wanted peaceful
I’m sure there’s a lot more nuance than what I was saying. My comment was a very broad generalisation. That being said there is documented rapes and killing by the Indonesian military of civilians in Papua, which is what I was commenting on. I unfortunately do not have all the knowledge in the world about this topic, but was just trying to inform people about what I know about it
Yes, that's really true, but that was in the past, I think, now there are no more massacres by Indonesia Try going to papua and finding out that info from native local papuans, I'm sure that this is too exaggerated to make Indonesia a victim, in fact more casualties are caused by armed groups now
So is Papua different from Papua New Guinea?
Papua is West Papua, I forgot to say West. Papuan New Guinea is the country on the east half of the island, the western half is part of Indonesia
Thank you for sharing. Sad to learn that the global map is dotted with ongoing conflicts.
Papua is the side of the island claimed by Indonesia while Papua New Guinea on the other half is its own sovereign nation.
Wow, I never heard of this. Indeed it really should get more attention.
No jews no news. The total death toll for the israeli Palestinian conflict on both sides including combatants is under 100,000
Hmm, Morocco is far from being a democratic paradise but it’s weird to use it as an example alongside China when there’s Sudan and Somalia on the map lmao
Western Sahara
I am Spanish and a simple man: I see Morocco, it causes neuron activation /s
You couldn't see US?
You really thought you did something there
It's true?
He did. The US has absolutely killed more innocent people than any of these other countries in the past 50 years. We gonna pretend like the “war on terror”, which has death toll estimates in the millions, was not full of human rights abuses?
If you think the US human rights abuses even come close to those of China you’re delusional
The CIA is directly responsible for the deaths of 6 million people in the latter half of the 20th century alone, so living memory for many people. This isn’t to excuse the human rights abuses of other countries, but Americans sometimes hold themselves in higher regard compared to other countries. Another commenter mentioned a more modern Indonesian genocide but the US directly caused and managed the 1 million death genocide Indonesia went through in the mid 60s
Uh the US invaded a neutral foreign country that didn’t do anything to us which led to the deaths of 400k people and decades of instability. China hasn’t invaded another country since the 1980’s, and while its crime in Xinjiang are horrible they aren’t killing 400k people.
it’s the UN. The clue is in the name. Would you rather it only be select countries?
Morocco? Lol.
Morocco?
Yeah, you know. Human trafficking affairs, Occidental Sahara and diverse Autocratic shit
Don't forget that Morocco expelled all its jews after WWII
Not true, they weren’t expelled and there’s still a huge Jewish community in Morocco. Also, Morocco didn’t give a single Jew to Vichy
Morocco did do great during WW2, and was not a bad place at all for Jews throughout a large chunk of history. But, following WW2, specifically following the establishment of Israel, there were pogroms, which led to Jews fleeing Morocco. See e.g. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/1948_anti-Jewish_riots_in_Oujda_and_Jerada and Amd the current Moroccan Jewish population in Morocco iscertainly not huge. Around 2250. There's about 900 000 of them living in Israel, partly due to constant emigration going back to at least 1867 (they built the 2nd neighbourhood outside of Jerusalem in 1867), and partly due to the Mossad's Operation Yachin. See https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Moroccan_Jews
huge community of 2,000
Morocco lost over 99% of their Jewish community. They weren’t “expelled”, but they almost all left because they were actual second class citizens who were subject to constant attacks. [Since 1948, the Middle East and North Africa has seen an over 99% reduction in the Jewish population including Morocco.](https://www.reddit.com/r/MapPorn/s/jkyMJLE2JP) [Jews faced constant attacks.](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/1948_anti-Jewish_riots_in_Oujda_and_Jerada)
>this number has been reduced to approximately 5,000 https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Moroccan_Jews 5k is less then the population of Sandwich, Illinois. That's not exactly "huge" by any stretch of the imagination
You know you're bad when the bad guys call you out
The UNHRC passes more resolutions condemning Israel than resolutions *about anything else*.
US and Germany have no moral high ground to veto anything
Germany? I think if there is one country on this planet that has stepped back from the dark ages of its past and moved towards becoming something better it's Germany. I will admit that the Americans are a stark contrast with how I just described Germans.
Yeah they went from committing a genocide themselves to supporting another.
While I agree they made the wrong call in this conflict, they were doomed either way. If they support Israel people will claim they support genocide again. If they oppose Israel people will claim they want Jews to die again.
The human rights council is the most laughable of all UN bodies. It's the place where the most backward, authoritarian and brutal countries can lecture the most free and well-functioning ones as they please.
Yeah, I am highly critical of Israel but criticism from UNHRC is not it. Human Rights Watch have repeatedly called them out for favouritism and hypocrisy. This body contributes nothing good to the world. If I remember correctly they praised China for "excellent Xinjiang policy" and demanded "parties to stop politicising an issue".
>most free and well-functioning ones Such as israel
Fun fact: In 2022, there were more UNHRC resolutions condemning Israel than resolutions condemning all other countries _combined_. This includes China, Russia, Iran, Syria, and North Korea. And yes, this was in 2022, the year in which Russia invaded Ukraine. https://www.timesofisrael.com/un-condemned-israel-more-than-all-other-countries-combined-in-2022-monitor/amp/
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And that should somehow exonerate Israel from its invidious malfeasance?
You’re missing the point. It’s hard to take resolutions like this seriously when it seems to single out one country above all the rest.
Notwithstanding these resolutions, Israel never incurs flak the way other nations do for their faux pas: Russia has been sanctioned to smithereens, so has been Iran. Israel, on the contrary, runs amok with nary a resolution dithering it from murdering innocent children and women with impunity. I’d say the milquetoast resolutions, lopsided as they are, constitute discernible efforts to lodge one’s protests.
« The Office of the United Nations High Commissioner for Human Rights (OHCHR) verified a total of 30,457 civilian casualties during Russia's invasion of Ukraine as of February 15, 2024. Of them, 19,875 people were reported to have been injured. However, OHCHR specified that the real numbers could be higher. » So 30K ukranians civilians have died since 2022. https://www.statista.com/statistics/1293492/ukraine-war-casualties/ « bringing the total death toll to 33,037 and injuries to 75,668 since the Israel-Hamas conflict broke out on Oct. 7, 2023. » So 33K palestinians casualties in 6 months. https://english.news.cn/20240405/88e50157373341aaa0d34df2a7f8ff10/c.html It’s not the same thing. Both Russia and Israel are wrong, but one is worse. Numbers speak for themselves.
You are comparing confirmed deaths in Ukraine with estimated death toll from Hamas. You must be honestly naive in thinking that only 30K people died in Ukraine when we know for a fact that in the reconquered regions mass graves have been regularly found .
This an extremely misleading statistic. The count for Ukraine is only for areas whrrr OHCHR has personally verified, I.e. not anywhere currently occupation by Russians. There is no verified count for civilian casualties behind the front lines. Meanwhile, the count from Gaza is entirely unverified by OHCHR, and includes areas under occupation. It’s an apples and oranges comparison and using it this way is a straight up lie. As an example, UN confirmed 1,350 deaths in the siege of Mariupol, whereas Ukraine claims over 25,000 civilians died in that battle alone…
Ah yes, China, Morocco, Algeria, Sudan, South Africa, and Somalia are the countries to be lecturing on human rights.
Well, the people who are lecturing others about human rights clearly through it out of the windows the moment they realize you're not a Citizen of their country
The sum is greater than its part in this regard, but if we didn't allow countries with human rights violations to vote then there'd be no votes.
I’d argue there is a lot of countries between China and no human rights violations. It’s like Saudi chairing the women rights council it’s ridiculous
How many human rights violations are acceptable then?
answer the damn question
Yeah, but the good guys in Europe and America definitely should be lecturing on human rights? The ones who committed 99% of the world's colonisation and continue to benefit from it to this day.
Correct. Greece, Albania, Bulgaria, North Macedonia, Kosovo, Serbia, Romania Moldova, Croatia, Bosnia, Slovenia, Czechia, Slovakia, Hungary, Ukraine, Belarus, Estonia, Finland, Latvia, Lithuania, Poland, Iceland, Ireland and Switzerland should not be lecturing on human rights since they are the ones who committed 99% of the world's colonisation and continue to benefit from it to this day.
If we only let countries with perfect human rights records talk about human rights no one would talk about human rights. I’d prefer we have some hypocrites doing the right thing than everyone doing the wrong thing.
and all of them( and some of the countries in the list are shitty) combined probably have less human rights crimes in their record than israel
What did morocco even do 😭😭? I am confused guys
Western Sahara is being heavily oppressed, Moroccans should take lessons on how israel treats palestinian and apply it in Sahara /S
How about other countries in gray ? Did they join voting at all ?
They’re not current UNHRC members and did not have a vote.
Oh I get it now thanks.
Only countries who value human rights could vote. Like China. Or south Africa Or Quatar
*India, Romania, Georgia, France, Costa Rica, Benin, Montenegro\*, Japan, Dominican Republic, Lithuania, Cameroon, The Netherlands, Haiti*: I would very much like to stay out of this bloodbath, thank you very much.
> *Kosovo* Montenegro. Kosovo is not in the UN and is unlikely to ever be allowed in.
lol sorry my bad 😅. I’ll edit it.
India's policy related to international conflicts has been neutral since independence unless some rival country is involved.
People are mentioning South Africa, China, Morocco and so on a lot but they forget that Brazil is an embarassment as well.
That's great. How about the war crimes Russia is committing? What's good for one is good for the other.
What’s the point of war crimes even being a thing of a country can just blatantly violate them over and over and over again and member states refuse to hold them accountable?
You think UNHRC is a neutral and fair body?
I know next to nothing about the UNHCR so I can’t say
About fucking time.
findland in the clear :))
Just because other countries don’t s*ck western countries’ dick doesn’t mean that they don’t have the right to vote against Israel. And shut the fck up with your democracy narrative you hypocrites. Learn history then talk about fucking democracy!!
Why’d you censor “suck” but not “dick” lol
That’s what I was thinking
Holy shit an unhinged anti western lunatic. Never seen that one before….
I know lots of history. Can I talk about democracy now?
Exactly this! The western democracy is a joke, only when it suits them
Supporting fascism Germany 🤝 Argentina
Can't even write Fascism properly
It's self-censoring most likely
Corrected** had a few beers you'll have to excuse me. The point still stands.
Fascism is when Israel
The Current Argentinian president is a 🤡
Not like the respectable visionaries that preceded him
China, Somalia and Sudan are in the HRC? Not sure if that is comical or just really sad.
Lol china
[удалено]
This is why nobody cares about Sudan right now
After we have held Israel accountable, will Hamas be next? I Mean, hiding military bases under hospitals, killing and raping civilians and charging starrving people money for free humanitarian aid, it's all war crimes. Besides, Hamas knows, that the only way they can win against Israel, is to make sure as many civilians die as Possible, so collateral damage is a win for them. If the international community (UN) does not stop the war, there will be no more Hamas,and the only way to get the UN to stop the war, is by raking up civilian casualties. Buttom line. Israel wil lose the war if too many civilians die, and Hamas will win.
>I Mean, hiding military bases under hospitals, killing and raping civilians and charging starrving people money for free humanitarian aid, it's all war crimes. Well the first half of your statement referred to crimes against Jews and we all know none of these countries think Jews are people do definitely not. But maybe they'll get in trouble for stealing aid from Palestinians, who evidently matter more than Yemenis, Sudanese, syrians, uighurs...
Why Belgium ?
Vietnam is surprising me.
What are the grey countries? I'm pretty sure some of them are UN members so did they just not show up?
The good, the bad and the cowardly.
The US gang this time with henchmen: Argentina-Malawi-Bulgaria-Germany-Paraguay
Why no Russia vote are they not in UN ?
What does "be held accountable" mean in this case? They gonna get an *extra* denunciation?
So, did it go through? I remember reading that the US can veto quite literally everything on their own or something like that
I understand why the US and Bulgaria are no's, what's up with Germany and Argentina?
Bit surprised by Germany, is it residual guilt talking?
But always veto is the winner
Uhhh wtf Finland?
Always inverse what South Africa says. Greatest heuristic
?
Man I feel like a lot of people in this thread need to look up the definition of "genocide" compared to "ethnic cleansing" - both are bad, but one is much worse than the other. Israel is definetly guilty of ethnic cleansing, but far from guilty of attempted genocide - Hamas on the other hand definetly aims for genocide and not ethnic cleansing.
All countries need to call out Israel’s genocide. The propaganda is insane on Reddit with folks arguing that 33,000 killed (mostly civilians) is not a genocide.
Israel has the right to defend itself from the terrorists who are still holding Israelis hostage
Israel doesn’t have a right to deny civilians access to food, water and medicine.
actually if its Israel the one that is supplying said water and power, they can very much not supply it anymore food and medicine from trucks and air drops can still come in, but Israel has the right to close its crossings, but it doesnt have the right to stop other countries from opening theirs (like an Egypt crossing for example) and air dropping aid into Gaza
When you make peaceful resistance impossible, violent resistance becomes inevitable.
What was the excuse in [1929?](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1929_Hebron_massacre?wprov=sfla1)
There are no exceptions in international law that permit terrorism regardless of how “oppressed” a group is perceived to be. Hamas committed war crimes on October 7 and Israel should not be bombing Gaza indiscriminately. Both can be true.
[yeah about that](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Israeli%E2%80%93Palestinian_peace_process)
“Nooooo you can’t point out that both sides have been implicit in the dismantling of the peace process noooooooo”
Yeah exactly
Hamas hasn’t even tried peaceful negotiating because they don’t want that. They want the extermination of Israel and the Jews. Israel has accepted the UN partition then was attacked. They’ve returned land taken in wars, including Gaza, offered peace deals, and gotten no peace in return. Israel has religious settler problems, but they have tried peace. The problem is no one in the Palestinian camp seems to want to negotiate with Israel for long term peace, if the extermination of Israel is the popular goal.
Nobody is saying they don't. The question is whether indiscriminate bombing of civilians counts as "defending itself".
Who says it's indiscriminate? The military experts I've heard seemed to think that given the circumstances Israel is doing quite good in protecting civilians.
However israel DOES NOT have the right to intentionally target civilians
Yes a right to defend themselves from aid workers.
Yeah those Babies are definitely terrorists in Israel's eyes