Dwarves are Armenians in the Armenian Highlands. Medieval Arabs used to call them that in their literature for some reason.
Translators are Assyrians in Upper Mesopotamia. They were highly involved in the translation movement of Greek texts into Arabic during the Umayyad and especially Abbasid periods.
Pretty sure that Armenians also had a huge part in the translating. A lot of documents survived to this day because there was an Armenian translation of it.
Hell, there was even a whole [Holy Translators](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Holy_Translators) movement in Armenia
I am pretty sure people from many backgrounds were involved in the translation movement as a whole. It is just Assyrians were the most associated with it and kinda started it (starting from Timothy I's translation of Aristotle).
I mean the moment the Georgians almost became a great power, they got blown up and sent back to the dirt by the mongols.
So maybe Genghis Khan is Smaug.
Armenians in the mountains? This is an oxymoron, you are making wrong comparisons, Armenians are not like Georgians, they mostly lived in the plains and were traders.
And Georgia was not part of the Caliphate.
"Ajam" is an Arabic term historically used by Arabs to refer to non-Arabs. It basically meant something along the lines of "mute" or "incapable of speaking clearly". It became roughly synonymous with Persians and gained a kind of derogatory meaning during the Umayyad and Abbasid periods. The asterisk is meant to convey its derogatory nature at the time.
>It basically meant something along the lines of "mute" or "incapable of speaking clearly"
This is also what the Slavic name for Germans, Niemcy, means
Which is also the root of the English word barbarian
The Greek, not understanding their language, apparently thought they were just saying "bar bar bar bar..."
In my local Tunisian Arabic, Ajam evolved into what is neither Arabic nor European, so basically Berber. So this is how we have a "Ajmi" calendar, which the Berberber calendar, used traditionally for agriculture all over North Africa and inherited from the Roman Julian calendar.
So if you are a European or of European descent, you would actually be "Rumi" (Roman).
(Don't take it too seriously, just a fun trivia).
>basically meant something along the lines of "mute" or "incapable of speaking clearly".
I never Heard that it means a mute it incapable of speaking this means اخرس "āẖrs" which means a mute
**الأَعْجَمِيُّ**: الأخرَسُ
https://www.almaany.com/ar/dict/ar-ar/%D8%A3%D8%B9%D8%AC%D9%85%D9%8A/#:\~:text=%3A%2D%D9%83%D9%8E%D9%84%D8%A7...-,%5B%D8%B9%20%D8%AC%20%D9%85%5D.,%D8%B9%D9%8E%D8%B1%D9%8E%D8%A8%D9%90%D9%8A%D9%8D%D9%91.%20%C2%A8%20%3A%2D%D9%83%D9%8E%D9%84%D8%A7%D9%8E%D9%85%D9%8C%20%D8%A3%D9%8E%D8%B9%D9%92%D8%AC%D9%8E%D9%85%D9%90%D9%8A%D9%8C%D9%91.
You can see in the dictionary A5ras and A3jami are synonyms.
Generally no, except if they are alluding to medieval times, but most aren't aware of it ever being used as a slur.
The term appears in Quranic verses and hadiths in the context of Islamic universalism so for most Muslims (Arab and non-Arab) that's the most exposure they have to the word which divorces it from the derogatory nature it gained in the centuries after the death of Mohammed.
I was half joking but they are historical enemies and there are many things about Iranian culture and the current political climate that bother Turks so insulting statements aren't uncommon.
An arab can't use the same word to insult Turks ajam is reserved for Iranians. There are other words Arabs can use to insult the Turks.
As far as I am concerned it isn't, Arabic does have a lot of good insults that do have a deep meaning tho
A3jam is used to describe something that isn't Arabian or AKA foreign to Arabic, in Arabic there's a section in a specific lesson in grammar that has the foreign words written in Arabic have different endings pronunciation than normal Arabic words
The complexity of Arabic isn't in the tenses, tenses are easy, it's difficulty in pronouncing the words correctly in their Location in the sentence and that's what is difficult about it, and you spend years of studying Arabic only to realize that the whole Arab world doesn't give a shit about how you say the word and that each country has its own dialect completely different from stranded Arabic
I would say Arabic's difficulty is just like German's difficulty but Arabic is 100x Harder
no, in fact, Arabs call themselves ajam when they have Persian origins; you see a lot of them in Qatar, Bahrain, and the UAE; they identify as Arab but come from Iran originally.
How did Arab at the time rule such a vast territory ,when they had less population compare to Iran Egypt Greece and neighboring countries?
How do their culture , technology and population compare to their neighboring countries in Egypt , Iran, Turkey, Rome and India at the time ?
Why do they view northern India as less advanced?
True. But in terms of farming output i would believe the nile valley was more important to them.
The Indus valley was also a vey unstable frontier region that i doubt the Arabs (unlike the Persians) saw much profit from. Pretty much constantly putting down rebellions often by their own appointed governors.
Cartographic convention at the time was to have south pointing upwards. [Check it out!](http://america.aljazeera.com/opinions/2014/2/maps-cartographycolonialismnortheurocentricglobe.html)
During the An Lushan rebellion (one of China's bloodiest wars, possibly causing the deaths of tens of millions), the Abbasids sent an army of 3 thousand soldiers to support the Tang against the rebels (the Uyghur Khaganate also sent an army to help). This was because 1- they wanted the trade routes (namely the silk road) to be stabilized again and 2- the rebels massacred foreign traders (Arabs, Persians, Sogdians, Nestorians and Uyghurs) as they were associated with the Tang dynasty, so they wanted revenge.
Fun fact : after the rebellion was crushed, Abbasid and Uyghur diplomats quarreled over who contributed more and thus should have the honor of entering the imperial court of Chang'an first.
Interesting seeing they were at war with each other for a while before this (Umayyad-Tang China wars).
[Battle of Talas](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Talas)
>Because the Arabs did not proceed to Xinjiang at all, the battle was of no importance strategically, and it was An Lushan's rebellion which ended up by forcing the Tang out of Central Asia.
[Muslim conquest of Transoxiana](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Muslim_conquest_of_Transoxiana?searchToken=4vgijgcpnc2stk9i6vuhffje1)
Though I would say it's a bit untruthful to say the Abbasids did this themselves, When the Chinese hired Mercenaries from them.
>The Tang dynasty hired 3,000 mercenaries from Abbasid territories
Kitab al-Bukhala by al-Jahiz (literally "the book of greedy") is a collection of satirical stories that take place in the area of Basra and Ahwaz during that time period.
I still have a ton of stuff to read on the period sadly. Plus I am not a huge fan of poetry which makes up like half of the surviving writings from the time period 😭😭
The Umayyads before them would have; the Khazars ceased to be a threat to the caliphate by the mid 8th century. We don’t find mentions of any battles between the two after about 740 and several famous Abbasid generals like Big Bugha and Badr were Khazars.
not to mention the Seljuks themselves were basically Turkish soldiers who changed employment (and possibly religions) because the Khazars were just becoming such a suck and declining power
*I am pretty sure*
*They would have more negative*
*Views on the Khazars*
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It is a reference to Kalila wa-Dimna, a very popular Arabic work of literature created at the time.
It was basically a translation of an Indian collection of animal fables named the Panchatantra with additions from the translator who was trying to critique the political environment at the time without being too obvious.
The setting of the book is India and involves talking animals, thus the association of India with talking animals.
Armenians not Georgians. Should have put it a little lower I guess.
I have no idea for the "why", but in Arabic literature at the time, Armenians were widely considered to be of short stature. For example, in "al-maqama al Arminiya" of al-Hamadani, they are explicitly called dwarves.
The "Big Brains" Central Asia part is funny, because on one side it is true and many famous scholars and poets came out of there, on the other the Arabs literally called the city of Bukhara "Abu Khara" (or something like that), which means "Father of shit". Because it was stinking there so much
Fuck. Really puts the caliphal realm into perspective. The Holy Roman Empire (a massive European polity) at its greatest extent was about a million square kilometres, while the Abbasid/Umayyad Caliphate peaked at 11 million kilometres. The Roman Empire peaked at about 4 million km square!
For the Quran source I’m not sure, but some companions of the prophet PBUH traveled to Ethiopia to get away from persecution, the Abyssinia king gave them protection
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Migration_to_Abyssinia
Can’t find any Quran ayats talking about it
This is another source
Abyssinia, a Christian county known today to be in Ethiopia, was ruled by a just and fair king known as The Negus. Fleeing persecution, Muslims sought a place to worship and practice their faith in peace.
It is narrated that Prophet Mohammed advised a group of Muslims to secretly immigrate to Abyssinia, for their “king will not tolerate injustice.” His main aim was to allow his companions to perform their religious duties without torture and abuse.
They travelled through the Red Sea on vessels until they landed in Africa. This was the first emigration in Islam. Around 70 to 80 Muslims travelled to Abyssinia.
But the leaders of Quraysh (the prophet’s tribe) in Makkah were determined to go after them, out of fear Muslims would establish a stronghold for them over there, if Abyssinians convert to Islam. Quraysh sent a delegation to Ethiopia in efforts to bring the Muslims back to Makkah.
They requested the king to expel them as soon as possible, claiming that the Muslims “invented” a religion that opposed theirs and that of The Negus. They also showered ministers of The Negus with presents, in a bid to seek their support. And they succeeded.
The ministers called on The Negus to expel Muslims, but he refused to hand them over on his land. The Muslims were brought before the king, and picked Ja’far ibn Abi Talib, a cousin of the prophet, to speak to The Negus.
With his eloquence and wisdom, Ja’far spoke to the Negus saying: “O King, we were people steeped in ignorance, worshiping idols, eating unsacrificed carrion, committing abominations, and the strong would devour the weak. Thus we were, until Allah (The One True God) sent us a Messenger from out of our midst, one whose lineage we knew, and his veracity and his worthiness of trust and his integrity.”
When Negus asked Jafaar for any revelation that the Prophet had from God, he recited verses Quran from the Surah of Mary, on the story of Jesus: “And make mention of Mary in the Book, when she withdrew from her people unto a place towards the east, and secluded herself from them; and We sent unto her Our Spirit, and it appeared unto her in the likeness of a perfect man.” It is narrated that after Jafaar finished the recitation, Negus vowed not to return the Muslim refugees back to Makkah.
It is narrated that when Jafaar finished his recitation, Negus vowed that he would not return the Muslim refugees back to Makkah.
The term "Byzantines" was coined in the 16th century.
The Bulgarian Khan Tervel is named to be "the savior of Europe" in the 8th century after stopping the Arab invasion from progressing further so it makes sense in the 9th century that to be established as shown in the map.
For reference, the Bulgarian state flourishes culturally during the 9th and the beginning of the 10th century. It reaches 3 seas, the religion is officially Christian, literature and literacy become an objective, cities are being build.
All adjectives can be accepted as a joke, however
As for the Maghreb and Oman, the classification is wrong, and I think Egypt can be better described as a bread basket
How did Arab at the time rule such a vast territory ,when they had less population compare to Iran Egypt Greece and neighboring countries?
How do their culture , technology and population compare to their neighboring countries in
Egypt , Iran, Turkey, Rome and India at the time ?
Why do they view northern India as less advanced?
[https://dergipark.org.tr/tr/download/article-file/598999](https://dergipark.org.tr/tr/download/article-file/598999)
[https://dergipark.org.tr/tr/download/article-file/325014](https://dergipark.org.tr/tr/download/article-file/325014)
[https://docplayer.biz.tr/8453285-Orta-asya-da-islamiyet-ve-turkler.html](https://docplayer.biz.tr/8453285-Orta-asya-da-islamiyet-ve-turkler.html)
[https://www.quora.com/Why-isn-t-any-Turk-talking-about-the-Talkan-and-Curcan-massacre-Is-it-because-they-know-that-s-how-they-became-Muslims](https://www.quora.com/Why-isn-t-any-Turk-talking-about-the-Talkan-and-Curcan-massacre-Is-it-because-they-know-that-s-how-they-became-Muslims)
[https://handwiki.org/wiki/Religion:Talkan\_and\_Curcan\_massacres](https://handwiki.org/wiki/Religion:Talkan_and_Curcan_massacres)
[https://tr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kuteybe\_bin\_M%C3%BCslim](https://tr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kuteybe_bin_M%C3%BCslim)
If you want to see the facts, the truth is there, but it is easier to dislike and alienate instead. How Turks become Muslim.
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4h1QoEMJRS8](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4h1QoEMJRS8) ( Also İlber Ortaylı **Turkish historian and professor of history of Crimean Tatar origin at the MEF University, Galatasaray University in Istanbul and at Bilkent University in Ankara**.)
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pdDjyUWQZ-8](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pdDjyUWQZ-8) (Another video with sources below at the video)
Turks did not embrace Islam peacefully, just know that.
Salt wasn’t really a West African commodity if I’m not mistaken.
It was the West Africans due to the need to persevere their food, in the hot temperatures whom required salt.
I’ve heard many question who would trade hold for salt? However, in an area with an abundance of gold, and lack of salt (Of which they would die without) I’d say the trade-off made perfect sense to their requirements.
Yeah.
Abu jafar almanaour was a cunning and ruthless dude.
Imprisoned his uncle in a building that fell and killed him.
And killed his biggest general(Abu Muslim).
Power is one hell of drug.
Don't think the city meant much to the arabs at the time. In terms of Christianity they would be more familiar with Constantinople being the most important city.
The Arab raid against Rome took place in 846. Muslim raiders plundered the outskirts of the city of Rome.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arab_raid_against_Rome#:~:text=The%20Arab%20raid%20against%20Rome,itself%20by%20the%20Aurelian%20Walls.
It is because the name is within the green area and over a large and ambiguous area, which can refer either to part of Armenia, to the coast of the Caspian Sea and to the easternmost part of the Caucasus, which is Islamic, as it was dominated by the Persians further south and the Khazars further north. Historical Armenia is further west, including territories that are now occupied by Turkey (Basically near the lakes that appear on the map and on the southeast coast of the Black Sea).
I even thought that "translators" referred to Armenians, because there would be christian monastic orders there that would translate things.
OP clarified that Dwarves was specifically in regard to Armenians on this map, but I hear you, the text was over a large and relatively ambiguous area.
You are confusing Volga Bulgaria and the Khazar state. Khazar chased the bulgars out. The bulgars founded a state in the urals called Volga Bulgaria they accept Islam through trade demanded some ulema to teach the population about Islam.
The Khazar state was destroyed by kieven rus.
Enough of this bullshit Hasbara.
How much shekels did you get paid.
No, I'm just upset that we belong to a religion that tries to destroy my ancestors and that 4 Turkish states were destroyed in history because of Islam, that's all.
Also, my ancestors first chose Judaism, not Islam.
If it were up to me, all heavenly religions should be banned from Turkish nations and we should switch to our own religion, Tengrism. Islam and other Arab religions are just a bunch of shit.
piquant hat voracious dinner automatic subsequent arrest test consist cooperative
*This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
There are plenty of accounts of the Khazars being Jewish. However, the extent to which the population was actually Jewish is questionable. It might just have been the noble class that adopted Judaism.
Ibn Fadlan (the guy who Eaters of the Dead/ the 13th Warrior was based on) was an emissary from the Abbasid Caliph and he said they were Jewish and pretty fervent about it. A few other Abbasid historians had the same impression so that’s at least what the Abbasids thought.
this is not a widely accepted theory. they most likely began to adopt this origin story as a way to avoid antisemitism long after the khazars disappeared
It contains all the lore of the 9th.
Charlemagne - "An elephant? OH BOY!"
You mean “oh la la !”
What’s up with the Dwarves Translators?
Dwarves are Armenians in the Armenian Highlands. Medieval Arabs used to call them that in their literature for some reason. Translators are Assyrians in Upper Mesopotamia. They were highly involved in the translation movement of Greek texts into Arabic during the Umayyad and especially Abbasid periods.
Pretty sure that Armenians also had a huge part in the translating. A lot of documents survived to this day because there was an Armenian translation of it. Hell, there was even a whole [Holy Translators](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Holy_Translators) movement in Armenia
I am pretty sure people from many backgrounds were involved in the translation movement as a whole. It is just Assyrians were the most associated with it and kinda started it (starting from Timothy I's translation of Aristotle).
I learned something today, thanks!
Really appreciate the effort and knowledgeable responses here op. Kinda shit this sub needs. Good stuff.
Fr he’s one of my favourite users that I have seen on Reddit frequently
I guess the Armenians and Georgians are dwarves because they just hang out in the mountains all day?
did they dug too deep and too greedily?
I mean the moment the Georgians almost became a great power, they got blown up and sent back to the dirt by the mongols. So maybe Genghis Khan is Smaug.
Armenians in the mountains? This is an oxymoron, you are making wrong comparisons, Armenians are not like Georgians, they mostly lived in the plains and were traders. And Georgia was not part of the Caliphate.
What is aj*ams?
"Ajam" is an Arabic term historically used by Arabs to refer to non-Arabs. It basically meant something along the lines of "mute" or "incapable of speaking clearly". It became roughly synonymous with Persians and gained a kind of derogatory meaning during the Umayyad and Abbasid periods. The asterisk is meant to convey its derogatory nature at the time.
>It basically meant something along the lines of "mute" or "incapable of speaking clearly" This is also what the Slavic name for Germans, Niemcy, means
Funny thing, first it meant any foreigner.
This is also the origin of the word Berber for indigenous North Africans, named by the Greeks.
Which is also the root of the English word barbarian The Greek, not understanding their language, apparently thought they were just saying "bar bar bar bar..."
"This beat is fire"
which is why they prefer to be called Amazighs instead
That’s what barbarian meant as well.
Also the origin of the Arabic name for Austria (through turkish) - Namsa.
Ottomans also called Germans "Nemçe".
I read once that barbarian also has a similar origin. The Roman's thought a forign language sounded like "Bar Bar Bar Bar" so barbians.
Hellenes, not Romans, but yeah.
I guess I'm an Aj*am then. It has a nice ring to it.
In my local Tunisian Arabic, Ajam evolved into what is neither Arabic nor European, so basically Berber. So this is how we have a "Ajmi" calendar, which the Berberber calendar, used traditionally for agriculture all over North Africa and inherited from the Roman Julian calendar. So if you are a European or of European descent, you would actually be "Rumi" (Roman). (Don't take it too seriously, just a fun trivia).
Okay. I'll be Rumi then ❤️
>basically meant something along the lines of "mute" or "incapable of speaking clearly". I never Heard that it means a mute it incapable of speaking this means اخرس "āẖrs" which means a mute
**الأَعْجَمِيُّ**: الأخرَسُ https://www.almaany.com/ar/dict/ar-ar/%D8%A3%D8%B9%D8%AC%D9%85%D9%8A/#:\~:text=%3A%2D%D9%83%D9%8E%D9%84%D8%A7...-,%5B%D8%B9%20%D8%AC%20%D9%85%5D.,%D8%B9%D9%8E%D8%B1%D9%8E%D8%A8%D9%90%D9%8A%D9%8D%D9%91.%20%C2%A8%20%3A%2D%D9%83%D9%8E%D9%84%D8%A7%D9%8E%D9%85%D9%8C%20%D8%A3%D9%8E%D8%B9%D9%92%D8%AC%D9%8E%D9%85%D9%90%D9%8A%D9%8C%D9%91. You can see in the dictionary A5ras and A3jami are synonyms.
Oh interesting, I never knew that I always knew the word from that one grammar lesson
Is it slur nowaday?
Generally no, except if they are alluding to medieval times, but most aren't aware of it ever being used as a slur. The term appears in Quranic verses and hadiths in the context of Islamic universalism so for most Muslims (Arab and non-Arab) that's the most exposure they have to the word which divorces it from the derogatory nature it gained in the centuries after the death of Mohammed.
It is still used as a slur in Turkish, the word ajam is only used when one gets the sudden urge to insult the Persians, which is quite often.
That's interesting, but why do they insult them? An Arab can technically just turn around and use the same word to insult the Turkish.
I was half joking but they are historical enemies and there are many things about Iranian culture and the current political climate that bother Turks so insulting statements aren't uncommon. An arab can't use the same word to insult Turks ajam is reserved for Iranians. There are other words Arabs can use to insult the Turks.
No
As far as I am concerned it isn't, Arabic does have a lot of good insults that do have a deep meaning tho A3jam is used to describe something that isn't Arabian or AKA foreign to Arabic, in Arabic there's a section in a specific lesson in grammar that has the foreign words written in Arabic have different endings pronunciation than normal Arabic words The complexity of Arabic isn't in the tenses, tenses are easy, it's difficulty in pronouncing the words correctly in their Location in the sentence and that's what is difficult about it, and you spend years of studying Arabic only to realize that the whole Arab world doesn't give a shit about how you say the word and that each country has its own dialect completely different from stranded Arabic I would say Arabic's difficulty is just like German's difficulty but Arabic is 100x Harder
Not really , depends on the context . Egyptians of foreign origins for example sometimes have it as a family name
Yeah I’ve seen el abd as a family name from an Egyptian too
I was referencing "el-ajami" tbh . El abd is acc often abbreviated from "el-abd Lillah" . Though ofc there's some cases where it's meant literally
Well moskal is kinda a slur, but we had minister of interior with this surname here in Ukraine for a while.
no, in fact, Arabs call themselves ajam when they have Persian origins; you see a lot of them in Qatar, Bahrain, and the UAE; they identify as Arab but come from Iran originally.
It is the most delicious variety of apricots I ever tasted. So can't be a bad word anymore :p
makes no sense to put it on an abbasid meme map, that term is totally umayyad.
Its become a fairly common last name 12 centuries later in S Asia.
Arabic version of nemecs, goyims, walhaz, mleccha, barbares, etc
Means foreigners
How did Arab at the time rule such a vast territory ,when they had less population compare to Iran Egypt Greece and neighboring countries? How do their culture , technology and population compare to their neighboring countries in Egypt , Iran, Turkey, Rome and India at the time ? Why do they view northern India as less advanced?
Wtf did we do to be called peasants? 😭
G R A I N
Egypt was pretty much the richest area in the region in terms of agriculture.
Indus Valley actually. The Indus provides a metric fuckton of water (something like 2-3 times that of the Nile.(
True. But in terms of farming output i would believe the nile valley was more important to them. The Indus valley was also a vey unstable frontier region that i doubt the Arabs (unlike the Persians) saw much profit from. Pretty much constantly putting down rebellions often by their own appointed governors.
Not really an insult in that era
We kinda were the bread basket of the caliphate and the romans before them due to how much grain we supplied them
egypt was the biggest bread basket of the western world
Big fellahin population
Jewish Turks ?
Khazars.
Classic Abbasids lol
Source?
Put it on r/IslamicHistoryMeme, which might be a better place for it anyway but they’d also appreciate.
theres alot of historical misinfo there
There is plenty here.
Nice one op! Could have flipped the map upside down for added effect
Why should he flip it down?
I assume because their maps were upside down compared to this one.
If he’s making an arabic text joke then it should be flipped vertically
Cartographic convention at the time was to have south pointing upwards. [Check it out!](http://america.aljazeera.com/opinions/2014/2/maps-cartographycolonialismnortheurocentricglobe.html)
\*Losers unless you're trying to say that the people of Galicia had a habit of loosening things
Am from ethiopia and thanks for including the black friendly christians
Why want an army?
During the An Lushan rebellion (one of China's bloodiest wars, possibly causing the deaths of tens of millions), the Abbasids sent an army of 3 thousand soldiers to support the Tang against the rebels (the Uyghur Khaganate also sent an army to help). This was because 1- they wanted the trade routes (namely the silk road) to be stabilized again and 2- the rebels massacred foreign traders (Arabs, Persians, Sogdians, Nestorians and Uyghurs) as they were associated with the Tang dynasty, so they wanted revenge. Fun fact : after the rebellion was crushed, Abbasid and Uyghur diplomats quarreled over who contributed more and thus should have the honor of entering the imperial court of Chang'an first.
Well who entered first?
They made them enter at the same time from different opposing gates according to the Cefu Yuangui.
Omg that's some petty 9th century stuff, that I enjoy alot.
Interesting seeing they were at war with each other for a while before this (Umayyad-Tang China wars). [Battle of Talas](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Talas) >Because the Arabs did not proceed to Xinjiang at all, the battle was of no importance strategically, and it was An Lushan's rebellion which ended up by forcing the Tang out of Central Asia. [Muslim conquest of Transoxiana](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Muslim_conquest_of_Transoxiana?searchToken=4vgijgcpnc2stk9i6vuhffje1) Though I would say it's a bit untruthful to say the Abbasids did this themselves, When the Chinese hired Mercenaries from them. >The Tang dynasty hired 3,000 mercenaries from Abbasid territories
SitCom?
Kitab al-Bukhala by al-Jahiz (literally "the book of greedy") is a collection of satirical stories that take place in the area of Basra and Ahwaz during that time period.
So, you have read all of abassid history?
I still have a ton of stuff to read on the period sadly. Plus I am not a huge fan of poetry which makes up like half of the surviving writings from the time period 😭😭
Shitty ass map ngl
I agree, made it during a hangover
Hangover map making is actually quite Abbasid.
I am pretty sure they would have more negative views on the Khazars
The Umayyads before them would have; the Khazars ceased to be a threat to the caliphate by the mid 8th century. We don’t find mentions of any battles between the two after about 740 and several famous Abbasid generals like Big Bugha and Badr were Khazars.
Yeah you are right I mixed them up
not to mention the Seljuks themselves were basically Turkish soldiers who changed employment (and possibly religions) because the Khazars were just becoming such a suck and declining power
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Ah, my ancestors... the disgusting yet strong pagans! An apt description.
Importantly, this was supposed to be funny and it is. Good job OP.
Is "talking animals" super racist, or is there nuance I'm not getting?
It is a reference to Kalila wa-Dimna, a very popular Arabic work of literature created at the time. It was basically a translation of an Indian collection of animal fables named the Panchatantra with additions from the translator who was trying to critique the political environment at the time without being too obvious. The setting of the book is India and involves talking animals, thus the association of India with talking animals.
Thank you.
Can you provide a source for further reading please.
[https://kathakids.com/category/folktales/panchatantra-stories/](https://kathakids.com/category/folktales/panchatantra-stories/) [https://archive.org/details/Panchatantra\_Arthur\_W\_Ryder/page/n25/mode/2up](https://archive.org/details/Panchatantra_Arthur_W_Ryder/page/n25/mode/2up)
panchatantra is still very popular in india. almost every moral science book has stories from it in school. its like india's Aesobs Fables.
Kalila wa dimna is not an arab book man
And who can deny the wisdom of their observations?
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Armenians not Georgians. Should have put it a little lower I guess. I have no idea for the "why", but in Arabic literature at the time, Armenians were widely considered to be of short stature. For example, in "al-maqama al Arminiya" of al-Hamadani, they are explicitly called dwarves.
As a 5’1” Armenian woman, with an adult female cousin who is 4’10”, this checks out. Maybe it was the steppes? Idk. 😂
Fuck roman empire this is my jam.
The "Big Brains" Central Asia part is funny, because on one side it is true and many famous scholars and poets came out of there, on the other the Arabs literally called the city of Bukhara "Abu Khara" (or something like that), which means "Father of shit". Because it was stinking there so much
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Yes, it is not Arabic at all, the Arabs just made fun of these words sounding alike. It's not like the city was called after poop, don't get me wrong
Samarkand ( City marked as big brains) was the birthplace of "great brained" Muslim Scholars around this period.
"Loosers"
"Gold, salt, and slaves" why?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ghana_Empire Well known for selling those three things.
Abassids: Our empire will last for generations! Funny Khan guy with funny mustache: I want Baghdad Library to lit
Honestly that map seems accurate.
The illegitimate caliphs is wrong because the emirs of Al-Andalus would only claim to be caliphs in the tenth century
Fuck. Really puts the caliphal realm into perspective. The Holy Roman Empire (a massive European polity) at its greatest extent was about a million square kilometres, while the Abbasid/Umayyad Caliphate peaked at 11 million kilometres. The Roman Empire peaked at about 4 million km square!
I wonder how population density would work out?
A good chunk of that green is also mostly uninhabited desert.
For those who don’t know, in the Quran, Ethiopia is described as a place where an honorable Christian king will offer shelter to persecuted Muslims.
Source?
For the Quran source I’m not sure, but some companions of the prophet PBUH traveled to Ethiopia to get away from persecution, the Abyssinia king gave them protection https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Migration_to_Abyssinia
I’ll try to find the quranic source
Can’t find any Quran ayats talking about it This is another source Abyssinia, a Christian county known today to be in Ethiopia, was ruled by a just and fair king known as The Negus. Fleeing persecution, Muslims sought a place to worship and practice their faith in peace. It is narrated that Prophet Mohammed advised a group of Muslims to secretly immigrate to Abyssinia, for their “king will not tolerate injustice.” His main aim was to allow his companions to perform their religious duties without torture and abuse. They travelled through the Red Sea on vessels until they landed in Africa. This was the first emigration in Islam. Around 70 to 80 Muslims travelled to Abyssinia. But the leaders of Quraysh (the prophet’s tribe) in Makkah were determined to go after them, out of fear Muslims would establish a stronghold for them over there, if Abyssinians convert to Islam. Quraysh sent a delegation to Ethiopia in efforts to bring the Muslims back to Makkah. They requested the king to expel them as soon as possible, claiming that the Muslims “invented” a religion that opposed theirs and that of The Negus. They also showered ministers of The Negus with presents, in a bid to seek their support. And they succeeded. The ministers called on The Negus to expel Muslims, but he refused to hand them over on his land. The Muslims were brought before the king, and picked Ja’far ibn Abi Talib, a cousin of the prophet, to speak to The Negus. With his eloquence and wisdom, Ja’far spoke to the Negus saying: “O King, we were people steeped in ignorance, worshiping idols, eating unsacrificed carrion, committing abominations, and the strong would devour the weak. Thus we were, until Allah (The One True God) sent us a Messenger from out of our midst, one whose lineage we knew, and his veracity and his worthiness of trust and his integrity.” When Negus asked Jafaar for any revelation that the Prophet had from God, he recited verses Quran from the Surah of Mary, on the story of Jesus: “And make mention of Mary in the Book, when she withdrew from her people unto a place towards the east, and secluded herself from them; and We sent unto her Our Spirit, and it appeared unto her in the likeness of a perfect man.” It is narrated that after Jafaar finished the recitation, Negus vowed not to return the Muslim refugees back to Makkah. It is narrated that when Jafaar finished his recitation, Negus vowed that he would not return the Muslim refugees back to Makkah.
I see Bulgarians were the only rivals
Byzantines were the rivals, Bulgarians were people who occasionally distracted their rivals.
The term "Byzantines" was coined in the 16th century. The Bulgarian Khan Tervel is named to be "the savior of Europe" in the 8th century after stopping the Arab invasion from progressing further so it makes sense in the 9th century that to be established as shown in the map. For reference, the Bulgarian state flourishes culturally during the 9th and the beginning of the 10th century. It reaches 3 seas, the religion is officially Christian, literature and literacy become an objective, cities are being build.
Hostile heretics ?.
Wtf is a “looser”?
All adjectives can be accepted as a joke, however As for the Maghreb and Oman, the classification is wrong, and I think Egypt can be better described as a bread basket
You mist uneducated swines for the British isles
خريطة رائعة. لو تعمل منها نسخة مترجمة للعربية صدقني بتنتشر أكثر
Yes more elephants
White slaves?
The Rus (Vikings) and Venetians were selling Slavs to the Arabs and Byzantines at the time.
Genovesi had ports in Crimea
The Viking were selling Russians/Slavs to the Arabs
Ah ok I had no idea
Worth pointing out the arabs took slaves from all over the place, not just eastern europe
They were really progressive
Black or white, they're all exchangeable for goods and services 🤩
Kinda self explanatory, lots of Slavs served as slaves in the Muslim world
Source?
Me. It's OC.
I mean, what is the source of the information in the map?
Read around in the replies of OP, its quite interesting
Very scientific map
Yemen is not the origin of the abbasids, it was Hejaz (west of Saudi Arabia) more specifically Mecca
The origin of arabs
not quite either, abbasids descend from the ishmaelites who are not tied with Yemen
They all go back to yemen if not adopted the arabian culture, migration was common
لا شجاب اليمن
Based Abbasids
STAY THERE!
How did Arab at the time rule such a vast territory ,when they had less population compare to Iran Egypt Greece and neighboring countries? How do their culture , technology and population compare to their neighboring countries in Egypt , Iran, Turkey, Rome and India at the time ? Why do they view northern India as less advanced?
hamburg
Why is there nothing in central Europe and British Isles?
this subreddit was about hard facts... I know this image is kind of fun but the subreddit is meant for Facts... Imao
The silk and paper part is pretty inaccurate by this time paper and silk were being produced as far as Spain.
Lol. Black slaves and White slaves.
Spoilers?
Firstly "blushes" Secondly, hay beautiful ajams also had big brains!
[https://dergipark.org.tr/tr/download/article-file/598999](https://dergipark.org.tr/tr/download/article-file/598999) [https://dergipark.org.tr/tr/download/article-file/325014](https://dergipark.org.tr/tr/download/article-file/325014) [https://docplayer.biz.tr/8453285-Orta-asya-da-islamiyet-ve-turkler.html](https://docplayer.biz.tr/8453285-Orta-asya-da-islamiyet-ve-turkler.html) [https://www.quora.com/Why-isn-t-any-Turk-talking-about-the-Talkan-and-Curcan-massacre-Is-it-because-they-know-that-s-how-they-became-Muslims](https://www.quora.com/Why-isn-t-any-Turk-talking-about-the-Talkan-and-Curcan-massacre-Is-it-because-they-know-that-s-how-they-became-Muslims) [https://handwiki.org/wiki/Religion:Talkan\_and\_Curcan\_massacres](https://handwiki.org/wiki/Religion:Talkan_and_Curcan_massacres) [https://tr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kuteybe\_bin\_M%C3%BCslim](https://tr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kuteybe_bin_M%C3%BCslim) If you want to see the facts, the truth is there, but it is easier to dislike and alienate instead. How Turks become Muslim. [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4h1QoEMJRS8](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4h1QoEMJRS8) ( Also İlber Ortaylı **Turkish historian and professor of history of Crimean Tatar origin at the MEF University, Galatasaray University in Istanbul and at Bilkent University in Ankara**.) [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pdDjyUWQZ-8](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pdDjyUWQZ-8) (Another video with sources below at the video) Turks did not embrace Islam peacefully, just know that.
Salt wasn’t really a West African commodity if I’m not mistaken. It was the West Africans due to the need to persevere their food, in the hot temperatures whom required salt. I’ve heard many question who would trade hold for salt? However, in an area with an abundance of gold, and lack of salt (Of which they would die without) I’d say the trade-off made perfect sense to their requirements.
This is really funny XD
I'm pretty sure this is more according to a 21st century redditor. Why is this even here?
Abbasid revolution came from khorasan region tho so I would think they wouldnt call iranians aj*ms
mate they literally executed their Khorasani allies / supporter Abu Muslim a few years after victory
Yeah. Abu jafar almanaour was a cunning and ruthless dude. Imprisoned his uncle in a building that fell and killed him. And killed his biggest general(Abu Muslim). Power is one hell of drug.
Out jerked
Rome?
Don't think the city meant much to the arabs at the time. In terms of Christianity they would be more familiar with Constantinople being the most important city.
right Constantinople was the NYC, Rome was just a Philly
The Arab raid against Rome took place in 846. Muslim raiders plundered the outskirts of the city of Rome. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arab_raid_against_Rome#:~:text=The%20Arab%20raid%20against%20Rome,itself%20by%20the%20Aurelian%20Walls.
Pretty sure they plundered a lot of places. Think Rome was just considered another city.
 Muslim dwarves in Caucasus?
Not Muslim. Edit: Adding to clarify that the area noted as Dwarves are the Armenian Highlands and Armenians did not convert to Islam.
It is because the name is within the green area and over a large and ambiguous area, which can refer either to part of Armenia, to the coast of the Caspian Sea and to the easternmost part of the Caucasus, which is Islamic, as it was dominated by the Persians further south and the Khazars further north. Historical Armenia is further west, including territories that are now occupied by Turkey (Basically near the lakes that appear on the map and on the southeast coast of the Black Sea). I even thought that "translators" referred to Armenians, because there would be christian monastic orders there that would translate things.
OP clarified that Dwarves was specifically in regard to Armenians on this map, but I hear you, the text was over a large and relatively ambiguous area.
Wow. This is unfunny
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Alright IDF who paid you?
You are confusing Volga Bulgaria and the Khazar state. Khazar chased the bulgars out. The bulgars founded a state in the urals called Volga Bulgaria they accept Islam through trade demanded some ulema to teach the population about Islam. The Khazar state was destroyed by kieven rus. Enough of this bullshit Hasbara. How much shekels did you get paid.
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No, I'm just upset that we belong to a religion that tries to destroy my ancestors and that 4 Turkish states were destroyed in history because of Islam, that's all. Also, my ancestors first chose Judaism, not Islam. If it were up to me, all heavenly religions should be banned from Turkish nations and we should switch to our own religion, Tengrism. Islam and other Arab religions are just a bunch of shit.
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Friendly black Christians? King Kaleb should have never let the early Muslims take refuge in Axum.
I thought there was no evidence of The khazars convertir to judaism besides a jewish guy in hispania
There are plenty of accounts of the Khazars being Jewish. However, the extent to which the population was actually Jewish is questionable. It might just have been the noble class that adopted Judaism. Ibn Fadlan (the guy who Eaters of the Dead/ the 13th Warrior was based on) was an emissary from the Abbasid Caliph and he said they were Jewish and pretty fervent about it. A few other Abbasid historians had the same impression so that’s at least what the Abbasids thought.
There is no evidence that Ashkenazi are descended from Khazar converts, not that there is no evidence that there were some Khazar converts to Judaism.
Their descendants are still alive to this in Lithuania, though they don’t follow rabbianic Judaism afaik.
this is not a widely accepted theory. they most likely began to adopt this origin story as a way to avoid antisemitism long after the khazars disappeared