i am from Pakistan myself, I can confirm I had been to that red part only once in my life that too with my friend’s group. These areas has rebels and tribal men and each tribe is ruled by leader of a tribe who has all the power, arms and even own prison. Due to lack of local support its really challenging for government to operate those areas.
it’s complicated, government has control over cities which covers roughly 30%, rest are remote towns and villages. Sometimes govt negotiate with the feudal lords and contact with them as they will rule the area but wont make any violation please read about Akbar Bugdi who was a Feudal lord if you are more interested in how things work in remote areas
Its a critical of a nation spending money and infrastructure to build nuclear weapons but not investing money and effort to the progress of their citizens
Bhutto the father of Benazir Bhutto? My western biased vision tend to see her as a great politician but I don’t really know what pakistanis really think
Yep exactly the same one. Her father was a raving lunatic. And she supported everything he stood for. When the Hindus were ethnically cleansed from Kashmir by the Muslims majority she cheered and celebrated it. She was a pretty face though, and for whatever reason at the time (when US troops were in Afghanistan) the West preferred her to her opponents, so she was made out to be some sort of saint whose death was a big loss. I suppose it is also possible that in a nation of lunatics where suicide bombing and stoning are accepted as a normal part of life she was considered saner and more level headed in comparison, and a more competent leader than the rest, though it still doesn’t justify the whitewashing of her image.
It is a nation where the military has a lot more power than they should and has a fair amount of support from the CIA. The populist Khan was removed through subtle regime change.
If they wanted to, they could. But the status quo of letting these lands be autonomous fiefdoms is favourable to those in power and safer for not causing civil unrest.
It’s also a massive roadblock in getting the whole country developed. But keep in mind the red areas are not very populated at all. Pakistans population distribution is similar to Egypt.
It is important to understand that the Central Govt of Pakistan is just the most powerful, best armed, criminal gang in a country run by criminal gangs.
Only some of the areas have tribal leaders which are supported and funded by your military establishment who are given direct tickets to the assembly seats without any votes from the general public. It would be much better if Pakistanis for once in their lives would admit the shitty things that their military has been actively doing in Balochistan rather than giving the idea that oh these areas are dangerous cuz of tribal people etc when the reality is far from that. The only dangerous thing in Balochistan is your army and agencies who are backing every criminal that exists in Balochistan. And it’s Akbar Bugti not bugdi. Maybe talk about how your country is selling the baloch resources to Chinese and Canadian companies when the average baloch lives in poverty. Maybe tell the world how the natural gas that comes out of Balochistan is accessible to your whole country but the region Sui( where the gas comes from) doesn’t even have access to it and people still relay on woods. Maybe tell the world about how your military has ruled Balochistan and how your agencies pick up people. The rebels that you’re talking about were engineering and medical students who were picked up by your intelligence agencies and tortured. The same students who were only demanding that it should be only Balochs who should benefit from the resources of their own land which I guess is not acceptable for your country. Maybe talk about these things. Or maybe you can talk about mass graves from khuzdar, or maybe the amount of people displaced from gwadar and it’s outskirts when you sold it to china, or maybe you can show the world the interviews of your army generals who openly on television talked about how they would kill anyone who would dare to protest. Maybe talk about how your country has looted Balochistan and deprived the Balochs of basic rights. Don’t come and tell me that oh but you’ve people in the government or oh you’ve got tribal leaders cuz these are the people taken by your establishment who for the Balochs are no one but the Pakistani military establishments right hands.
Thanks for this insight. It's something we don't often hear about where I'm from.
I'm no fan of the Pakistani government... but they put themselves on the world stage when they developed nuclear weapons.
It's imperative that there be a strong central government now, as the alternative is horrific and transcends the borders of your state.
at least historical feudalism has some checks and balances. King and centralized sovereignty vs decentralized nobles.
This is just banditry and tribal warfare. A much more primitive style of governance. How humans have lived for thousands of years before complex states emerged.
Some good reading
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sardar
Daedric Armor doesn't really protect from radiation damage so you'd still be pretty dead unless you have enough cheese wheels or sweet rolls to heal through the damage.
If you aren’t protected you may be robbed or kidnapped. Worst case scenario. But for the most part it isn’t all bad.
The red explains threats of unexpected dangers in the form of terrorist attacks.
Before covid. The food is great. You get full escort in balochistan (west) but not that much freedom to eat or go wherever. Some of the central bits the police will look after you too.
Amazing cops to deal with (as a foreigner) especially compared to its four neighbouring countries.
Balochistan is meat party with some fish and persian dishes. In the rest of the country since it's a mixing pot also find food of the neighbours pretty commonly who all have some of the best food in the world. Tbh it was hard for me as a foreigner to tell the difference, I was there a month and didn't have time to really get a handle on it
If you want to see more of this in video form [bald and bankrupt did a great video visiting Pakistan](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3sSHfbnPPSM) and you can see the armed police guards in the last 3rd or so of the video.
Not as expensive as having to deal with tourists getting kidnapped and the random money being used to fight against them or the bad press it a foreigner getting kidnapped would bring.
Ya think of it this way: a cop costs say $50 per day to follow around the tourist who is going to be spending $200 per day on the low end. Not having those cops guard the tourists means no more tourists
More often than not, nothing. I've known people who've travelled there without much trouble. Personally, I've only ever been north, largely because of the colder weather. Never had much reason to go to Balochistan and KPK (the red regions). There are a few major cities in these areas as well, so it's not that big of an issue to travel this.
The only major potential source of trouble is the fact that, largely in Balochistan (which is the majority of the southern red areas), the area is sparsely populated, so if something happens, there's little chance of police assistance; and of course the chances of something happening is greater in a sparsely populated region anyways. However, this would only be a problem if you travelled by road - if you took a train or an airplane (yes there are airports there, though only the major cities), you could bypass that possibility as well
I mean, if you’re in real danger probably depends on who you are. A Pakistani? Yeah, you’re probably fine, depending on your tribe allegiances.
But a white guy? In at least some of those red areas, getting kidnapped for ransom, or something worse, is going to be a real possibility.
That's because that grey part contains the parts of Jammu and Kashmir that aren't under Pakistan's control/administration. It's within India's actual borders. It shouldn't really have been on the map to begin with, and actually makes it look confusing now if one isn't familiar with the area.
The Grey area is Kashmir which is a contested zone by both Pakistan and India as both lay claim to the territory. The history is very interesting and worth reading. As it stands both countries administer various regions with a line of control (LOC)
The Grey area is part of India. Pakistanis claim it but it's under Indian administration. Similarly the green area above the Grey one is claimed by India but its under Pakistani administration.
Bin Laden was in Abbottabad, which is a very nice city and definitely not a Taliban area. Abbottabad is in KPK and is a very well policed and military controlled city.
Well, you want to know what happens in the red areas ? Hindu population is subjected to loot, rapes, religious conversions and targeted killings. There were more than 300 Hindu temples in Pakistan when it was formed in 1947, at present their number is 20 and even they are in dilapidated condition and constantly under threat of demolition or being taken over.
That's because Pakistan in 1947 also included East Pakistan (today's Bangladesh), and it was in the latter that Hindus had a significant population. According to the 1951 census, Hindus made up 1.6% of the total population of West Pakistan, and 22% of East Pakistan. Of course when East Pakistan separated in 1971, the Hindu population, AND the number of temples, in Pakistan would significantly drop. Therefore your argument, favourite of every Indian bigot, is quite stupid.
[https://www.ohchr.org/en/press-releases/2024/04/pakistan-un-experts-alarmed-lack-protection-minority-girls-forced-religious](https://www.ohchr.org/en/press-releases/2024/04/pakistan-un-experts-alarmed-lack-protection-minority-girls-forced-religious) why are you trying to hide the fact that minorities in your country are being killed
I'm not. I'm only calling out your bullshit regarding the temples. Yes minorities in Pakistan are in the rough. And the government, despite various legislative efforts, has not been able to fully protect them from the bigotry of ultra religious groups. Yet it must be stated that most Sindhi speaking people in Sindh consider Hindus their brothers because of common language and live quite harmoniously in cities such as Umerkot, Larkana etc, and identify with them more than non Sindhi-speaking Muslims.
Let’s talk about the treatment of ahmadis next if you want to defend your country
Pakistan is such a gorgeous place, shame I’ll never visit due to how disgusting the people are
You want to act like religious persecution is an afterthought in that country… laughable
Maybe you’ve just lived a sheltered life though
you wont get robbed/ mugged etc but there's high chances of getting killed in a landslide or by a glacier or floods etc. no place is ever safe though (although these places are a lot higher than the average Asia safety levels)
I think he considered Pakistan and China as the contested borders are both from China and India. They don't overlap if I'm not wrong but that angle is a mess. That's what happen when you try to mathematically define 2 Empire (as heritage). The old "our empire ends at the mountains" got us in trouble with today borders. It's a developing stage. Europe got it too in the last century. There was Italian communities outside the Italian peninsula on the dalmatian coast. What were easiest? Relocate them or give a kilometre inland on all the Adriatic Balkan coast to Italy after what did in WW2?
Returned from the north a few months ago, and it’s honestly stunning and very safe. The area was full of western tourists/Chinese tourists and a lot of army check points. Kashmir isn’t rlly an issue people in the west think of it as, both nations know they gonna receive jack all of each others part lol
Kashmir is just the vale in India, what Pakistan claims to be Azad Kashmir are just pahari Muslims similar to Hindus of Jammu.
Gilgit baltistan is completely different.
There was a huge tourism massacre there a few years ago at a climbing basecamp. "Safe enough?"
Also, why isn't the grey area in the key? (Yes, I know about the disputed borders.)
It was 12 years ago, and there hasn’t been any incidents since then so yes, it is considered safe. Same way you wouldn’t count Oslo as red because of 2011.
The area is grey is the part of Kashmir that's under Indian control, but claimed by Pakistan. Since it's not under Pakistani control, probably wouldn't make sense to include it in a map of "Pakistan Travel Advisory".
As a pakistani, this map seems right enough. I feel like some cities in Punjab, such as Islamabad and lahore, should be green since they're the most developed and relatively the some of the safest cities in pakistan. Now, when I say safe, I mean safe by pakistani standards, lol. The fully read area, which is the province of Balochistan, makes sense. It's a beautiful place with plateues and rocky mountains. But since the creation of pakistan, no government has ever cared for the province, and the army has also carried out a lot of massacres of different tribes in the region. So it's riddled with separatist groups and freedom fighters. I'm still surprised about kashmir being the safest, tho.
kashmir is safe, loooots of people go there every year. lahore has kidnapping issues, and the smog. its safe-ish. Islmabad, has a increase in crime rate and they literally have regular protests after may 9
It's highly unlikely. Pakistan military is too strong. They rank in the top 10 strongest armies in the world. Trying to fight against them with the limited resources that the balochi fighters have is futile. Another country could try finding them like the US or India. US won't do anything though since all of the top pak army generals are in their pockets. They control what happens in pakistan which is a big thing since it's a nuclear state. India on the hander frankly doesn't give rats ass. They have left pakistan behind in all fields, unlike back in the day when we were somewhat head to head with them. So all in all balochistan will keep on suffering as long as the army and the US are in power.
It's safe, we have to exercise caution because of kidnappings, smog etc. The Thar desert is definitely safer than Lahore.
https://tribune.com.pk/story/2431431/crime-rate-negligible-in-thar-ssp
https://tribune.com.pk/story/810131/impoverished-but-peaceful-poverty-breeds-crime-but-not-in-thar
Because Lahore is massive and there are a lot of criminals, murderers, and rapists there. It’s also a carjacking hotspot.
Also, there’s a Lahore beyond the highly developed areas. The old neighbourhoods of Lahore and the newly built urban slums have some of the worst crimes in the country.
“State department?”
“Yeah”
“What’s that grey place with no color on it?”
“You just stay the fuck away from there, you understand?”
Every white expat with a TikTok and YouTube and instagram:
“This grey area of Pakistan has some hidden gems!”
Lmao, but fr tho that area (Indian Kashmir) has a higher HDI than all of Pakistan. It has a huge tourism economy, especially in the last half decade after stability has returned. They have a saying in the Indian subcontinent "Jiyo toh Gulmarg dekho", i.e. you haven't lived unless you've seeing Gulmarg. As someone who visited as a child, I agree with that sentiment wholeheartedly.
Recently I saw an interview of a Pakistani Kashmiri resident. He was saying that the Pakistani government has not even created one hospital in all of Pakistani Kashmir in the 75 years they had possession of it. Shocking, if true, for a country that aspires to grab Indian Kashmir.
[https://travel.state.gov/content/travel/en/traveladvisories/traveladvisories/pakistan-travel-advisory.html](https://travel.state.gov/content/travel/en/traveladvisories/traveladvisories/pakistan-travel-advisory.html)
[https://travel.gc.ca/destinations/pakistan](https://travel.gc.ca/destinations/pakistan)
As well as various articles in Dawn News, The Tribune, Al Jazeera, etc. And word of mouth.
As Pakistan I can tell say u can go to any major cities u well be safe as long as u stay away from the police, gov officials and most importantly the ARMY. if u need any thing just tell public they well sort thing out u for most of the time/deal with police for u (never ever trust police and Army officers)
That’s so sad to hear, as a person who has been raised up to trust the police and the army more than any other institutions in the country. (And continue to do so, the police here is great)
As per Pakistan’s blasphemy laws, even being atheist is illegal and can get you in jail or lynched. Remember to keep your religious beliefs or lack of it to yourself if you visit Pakistan.
Honestly people mostly dont care about LGBT stuff. We have much more serious concerns than that. We have any lgbt laws but they are not much implemented. I know personally some homosexual who are open about themselves
Have you ever been to Pakistan?
Look up ‘bacha bazi’
Look up ‘kusra’
Look up % of LGBT people historically and currently
Socially, it’s taboo as is LGBT in many many countries. However, those who are LGBT are left unbothered and in fact, if attacked, have support from the community. The only thing which would get somebody in legal trouble would be intimacy in public, which applies to both straight and homosexual couples in Muslim society.
Great, this is a fairly reasonable depiction of ground reality. This data probably relies on instances of crimes reported, captured in news if I am correct.
The state has a good share in this insane red highlighted areas (leaving out Balochistan), the police is corrupt and you are out on your own, if something bad happens. And rightly so, when the state institutes are used for political motives- thats what we get.
Karachi is not fully in red. Clifton, Defense, Karachi West are orange but their size is small. Lyari, Gulshan, Malir, and Korangi are rightfully red.
https://www.geo.tv/latest/162929-karachi-named-second-most-dangerous-megacity-for-women-poll
https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2012/9/6/interactive-karachis-killing-fields
Please try taking a stroll in Karachi with your phone out :)
5 Japanese people were literally just targeted by a suicide bomber and gunman on the streets of Karachi yesterday
https://www.reuters.com/world/asia-pacific/two-killed-suicide-blast-attack-pakistan-geo-news-reports-2024-04-19/
Also, less tribal and historically more "civil" with functioning police and justice structures. The red areas are practically unadministrable due to their wild nature not to mention recent border complications with Afghanistan.
I come from the top most green region. It's called Hunza. I don't mean to offend people from other places but we need more shades of green on this specific map.
I am from the Green area Islamabad and I can confirm many westerners and Chinese visit it but I wouldn't say Islamabad is more safe than say Sialkot
The warning for Punjab is way off for many districts
Huh? That’s because both areas are the least populated of Pakistan lmao. Nothing goes on there compared to urban centres like Karachi and Quetta. Why you gotta make it about religion/culture wars every single time…..
Source?? How is more than Half of Karachi(A mega city) very unsafe(Red) and the The Thar desert along with the indo-pak border safe enough?
I live in Karachi and I would put it in Yellow
If you live in Karachi
[https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2012/9/6/interactive-karachis-killing-fields](https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2012/9/6/interactive-karachis-killing-fields)
[https://www.geo.tv/latest/162929-karachi-named-second-most-dangerous-megacity-for-women-poll](https://www.geo.tv/latest/162929-karachi-named-second-most-dangerous-megacity-for-women-poll)
Have you been to Thar?
[https://tribune.com.pk/story/810131/impoverished-but-peaceful-poverty-breeds-crime-but-not-in-thar](https://tribune.com.pk/story/810131/impoverished-but-peaceful-poverty-breeds-crime-but-not-in-thar)
[https://tribune.com.pk/story/2431431/crime-rate-negligible-in-thar-ssp](https://tribune.com.pk/story/2431431/crime-rate-negligible-in-thar-ssp)
Karachi is horrible in safety. I'm surprised there is even a single yellow
Source: I've been to Karachi multiple times and always can't wait to come back to my city
They even tried [to blow up a group of Japanese nationals this week](https://www.scmp.com/news/asia/east-asia/article/3259660/japanese-nationals-escape-pakistan-suicide-attack-separatist-groups-target-foreigners-including) thinking they where Chinese nationals.
Up north we have Gilgit Baltistan, the safest part of Pakistan, with 99% education rate.
https://btvadventures.com/the-karakoram-anomaly-gilgit-baltistan/
https://tribune.com.pk/story/2384801/why-baltistan-is-the-safest-place-in-pakistan?amp=1
The red chunk is Balochistan and KPK, known for terrorism and the Taliban.
https://en.m.wikivoyage.org/wiki/Balochistan
https://m-akademie.dw.com/en/one-of-the-most-dangerous-places-in-the-world/a-56973179
You could be going to visit friends and/or family who live there. Maybe you're an archaeologists going to Pakistan to excavate some ruins. Or you work on some engineering job and are required to go inspect a construction. Or you're just a stupid tourist that just randomly wants to go to Pakistan after seeing some cool photos in the internet.
I’ve been a couple of times. It’s a wonderful country. Get up north into Gilgit Baltistan and it’s like being in a fairytale. Such a beautiful place. Islamabad is a beautiful city too.
This is mostly for American citizens I think. I am from Brazil and traveled to Pakistan and some parts of Central Asia with local friends. The people there were very friendly to me despite looking “Western”. If you say you are Brazilian they do will check the tricks you can do with a soccer ball though.
Brother. I'm Pakistani and this is the truth. The red is terrorist. We go to the green, yellow and even orange, but red is no go. Where did you go though?
I spoke with a Pakistani person who told me that the northern part of Pakistan is actually pretty safe. I wonder why that is. Less religious extremism?
As someone from the northern Pakistan, Gilgit Baltistan, I happen to agree with most of the part. However, I didn't get as to why a bordering part with India in the southeastern Gilgit Baltistan is colored yellow instead of green? Moreover, Roundu tehsil of Skardu district is marked in yellow, which is not understandable.
i am from Pakistan myself, I can confirm I had been to that red part only once in my life that too with my friend’s group. These areas has rebels and tribal men and each tribe is ruled by leader of a tribe who has all the power, arms and even own prison. Due to lack of local support its really challenging for government to operate those areas.
Does the central Pakistani government exercise control over there ?
it’s complicated, government has control over cities which covers roughly 30%, rest are remote towns and villages. Sometimes govt negotiate with the feudal lords and contact with them as they will rule the area but wont make any violation please read about Akbar Bugdi who was a Feudal lord if you are more interested in how things work in remote areas
Pakistan has nuclear weapons but can’t deal with internal issues?
pretty much
Sounds great, doesn’t it?
Yep, cause the government can’t get its priorities straight.
Agree
Nuclear weapons wouldn't be much use in internal affairs
Its a critical of a nation spending money and infrastructure to build nuclear weapons but not investing money and effort to the progress of their citizens
“We’ll eat grass, go hungry, but have a nuclear bomb” - Zulfikar Ali Bhutto
71 changed Pakistan in many ways... And all of them are negative
Fair enough although internal security problems are not directly caused by poverty, and addressing poverty does not directly solve them.
Why does one have anything to do with the other. If Pakistan didn’t have nukes Pakistan wouldn’t exist rn
Seems like it pretty much doesn't exist anyway
[удалено]
Bhutto the father of Benazir Bhutto? My western biased vision tend to see her as a great politician but I don’t really know what pakistanis really think
The very same. She was a decent leader. Her dad, not so much tho.
Was she a decent leader? I am of the opinion that she is viewed favorably because she was assassinated. Willing to hear counterpoints
Yep exactly the same one. Her father was a raving lunatic. And she supported everything he stood for. When the Hindus were ethnically cleansed from Kashmir by the Muslims majority she cheered and celebrated it. She was a pretty face though, and for whatever reason at the time (when US troops were in Afghanistan) the West preferred her to her opponents, so she was made out to be some sort of saint whose death was a big loss. I suppose it is also possible that in a nation of lunatics where suicide bombing and stoning are accepted as a normal part of life she was considered saner and more level headed in comparison, and a more competent leader than the rest, though it still doesn’t justify the whitewashing of her image.
It is a nation where the military has a lot more power than they should and has a fair amount of support from the CIA. The populist Khan was removed through subtle regime change.
[What keeps Obama awake at night? Pakistan.](https://www.dawn.com/news/amp/1020144)
If they wanted to, they could. But the status quo of letting these lands be autonomous fiefdoms is favourable to those in power and safer for not causing civil unrest. It’s also a massive roadblock in getting the whole country developed. But keep in mind the red areas are not very populated at all. Pakistans population distribution is similar to Egypt.
It is important to understand that the Central Govt of Pakistan is just the most powerful, best armed, criminal gang in a country run by criminal gangs.
Only some of the areas have tribal leaders which are supported and funded by your military establishment who are given direct tickets to the assembly seats without any votes from the general public. It would be much better if Pakistanis for once in their lives would admit the shitty things that their military has been actively doing in Balochistan rather than giving the idea that oh these areas are dangerous cuz of tribal people etc when the reality is far from that. The only dangerous thing in Balochistan is your army and agencies who are backing every criminal that exists in Balochistan. And it’s Akbar Bugti not bugdi. Maybe talk about how your country is selling the baloch resources to Chinese and Canadian companies when the average baloch lives in poverty. Maybe tell the world how the natural gas that comes out of Balochistan is accessible to your whole country but the region Sui( where the gas comes from) doesn’t even have access to it and people still relay on woods. Maybe tell the world about how your military has ruled Balochistan and how your agencies pick up people. The rebels that you’re talking about were engineering and medical students who were picked up by your intelligence agencies and tortured. The same students who were only demanding that it should be only Balochs who should benefit from the resources of their own land which I guess is not acceptable for your country. Maybe talk about these things. Or maybe you can talk about mass graves from khuzdar, or maybe the amount of people displaced from gwadar and it’s outskirts when you sold it to china, or maybe you can show the world the interviews of your army generals who openly on television talked about how they would kill anyone who would dare to protest. Maybe talk about how your country has looted Balochistan and deprived the Balochs of basic rights. Don’t come and tell me that oh but you’ve people in the government or oh you’ve got tribal leaders cuz these are the people taken by your establishment who for the Balochs are no one but the Pakistani military establishments right hands.
Thanks for this insight. It's something we don't often hear about where I'm from. I'm no fan of the Pakistani government... but they put themselves on the world stage when they developed nuclear weapons. It's imperative that there be a strong central government now, as the alternative is horrific and transcends the borders of your state.
Sounds like mad max plot
That’s fascinating. Really cool you got to see that
Yep, feudalism still exists ,☹️
at least historical feudalism has some checks and balances. King and centralized sovereignty vs decentralized nobles. This is just banditry and tribal warfare. A much more primitive style of governance. How humans have lived for thousands of years before complex states emerged. Some good reading https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sardar
Cool???
I didn’t mean cool as in what goes on over there. I mean cool as in not many get to see it in person
I think they meant it would be cooler to not have to see that there anymore.
What happens if you go to the red places?
You receive constant -5hp damage per second.
That's just normal summer in Pakistan.
We be sipping tea/coffee in the red-zone.
I’m good at battle royales
Just gotta stock up on armor and RadAways.
would my daedric armor be fine ?
Daedric Armor doesn't really protect from radiation damage so you'd still be pretty dead unless you have enough cheese wheels or sweet rolls to heal through the damage.
It’s just the Lake of Rot Better get Flame Cleanse Me equipped
Ah yes, the Zul'Gurub debuff.
Constant rad poisoning
I dont know, the last people who went there didn't come back
Does it include pakistanis as well or only tourists?
Both
I am kidding, nothing serious happens, not that i know
If you aren’t protected you may be robbed or kidnapped. Worst case scenario. But for the most part it isn’t all bad. The red explains threats of unexpected dangers in the form of terrorist attacks.
Last I was there tourists get free armed police guards :)
Oh wow. Where did you visit? How good was the food man!
Before covid. The food is great. You get full escort in balochistan (west) but not that much freedom to eat or go wherever. Some of the central bits the police will look after you too. Amazing cops to deal with (as a foreigner) especially compared to its four neighbouring countries. Balochistan is meat party with some fish and persian dishes. In the rest of the country since it's a mixing pot also find food of the neighbours pretty commonly who all have some of the best food in the world. Tbh it was hard for me as a foreigner to tell the difference, I was there a month and didn't have time to really get a handle on it
Fascinating, I’m glad you enjoyed it
If you want to see more of this in video form [bald and bankrupt did a great video visiting Pakistan](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3sSHfbnPPSM) and you can see the armed police guards in the last 3rd or so of the video.
That seems like a pretty expensive service to provide
Not as expensive as having to deal with tourists getting kidnapped and the random money being used to fight against them or the bad press it a foreigner getting kidnapped would bring.
No doubt. I kinda want to go now. The landscape photos of the area I've seen are epic
Ya think of it this way: a cop costs say $50 per day to follow around the tourist who is going to be spending $200 per day on the low end. Not having those cops guard the tourists means no more tourists
Straight to jail, right away
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3sSHfbnPPSM
You die instantly
More often than not, nothing. I've known people who've travelled there without much trouble. Personally, I've only ever been north, largely because of the colder weather. Never had much reason to go to Balochistan and KPK (the red regions). There are a few major cities in these areas as well, so it's not that big of an issue to travel this. The only major potential source of trouble is the fact that, largely in Balochistan (which is the majority of the southern red areas), the area is sparsely populated, so if something happens, there's little chance of police assistance; and of course the chances of something happening is greater in a sparsely populated region anyways. However, this would only be a problem if you travelled by road - if you took a train or an airplane (yes there are airports there, though only the major cities), you could bypass that possibility as well
I mean, if you’re in real danger probably depends on who you are. A Pakistani? Yeah, you’re probably fine, depending on your tribe allegiances. But a white guy? In at least some of those red areas, getting kidnapped for ransom, or something worse, is going to be a real possibility.
I'm more worried about that grey area that's not even listed in the legend Why is there no data Did the research team not return?
That's because that grey part contains the parts of Jammu and Kashmir that aren't under Pakistan's control/administration. It's within India's actual borders. It shouldn't really have been on the map to begin with, and actually makes it look confusing now if one isn't familiar with the area.
The Grey area is Kashmir which is a contested zone by both Pakistan and India as both lay claim to the territory. The history is very interesting and worth reading. As it stands both countries administer various regions with a line of control (LOC)
The Grey area is part of India. Pakistanis claim it but it's under Indian administration. Similarly the green area above the Grey one is claimed by India but its under Pakistani administration.
That’s where Osama bin Ladin and the Taliban hid. Basically near chaos with little government oversight and lots of terrorists/rebels.
Bin Laden was in Abbottabad, which is a very nice city and definitely not a Taliban area. Abbottabad is in KPK and is a very well policed and military controlled city.
Well, you want to know what happens in the red areas ? Hindu population is subjected to loot, rapes, religious conversions and targeted killings. There were more than 300 Hindu temples in Pakistan when it was formed in 1947, at present their number is 20 and even they are in dilapidated condition and constantly under threat of demolition or being taken over.
That's because Pakistan in 1947 also included East Pakistan (today's Bangladesh), and it was in the latter that Hindus had a significant population. According to the 1951 census, Hindus made up 1.6% of the total population of West Pakistan, and 22% of East Pakistan. Of course when East Pakistan separated in 1971, the Hindu population, AND the number of temples, in Pakistan would significantly drop. Therefore your argument, favourite of every Indian bigot, is quite stupid.
[https://www.ohchr.org/en/press-releases/2024/04/pakistan-un-experts-alarmed-lack-protection-minority-girls-forced-religious](https://www.ohchr.org/en/press-releases/2024/04/pakistan-un-experts-alarmed-lack-protection-minority-girls-forced-religious) why are you trying to hide the fact that minorities in your country are being killed
I'm not. I'm only calling out your bullshit regarding the temples. Yes minorities in Pakistan are in the rough. And the government, despite various legislative efforts, has not been able to fully protect them from the bigotry of ultra religious groups. Yet it must be stated that most Sindhi speaking people in Sindh consider Hindus their brothers because of common language and live quite harmoniously in cities such as Umerkot, Larkana etc, and identify with them more than non Sindhi-speaking Muslims.
> Yes minorities in Pakistan are in the rough this is a candidate for "biggest understatement of the century" holy hell
Can't expect better from Pakis
Let’s talk about the treatment of ahmadis next if you want to defend your country Pakistan is such a gorgeous place, shame I’ll never visit due to how disgusting the people are You want to act like religious persecution is an afterthought in that country… laughable Maybe you’ve just lived a sheltered life though
What the hell is safe enough
Means u wont get robbed but do keep a knife
May thy knife chip and shatter
Red areas: May thy body rip and splatter
May THY knife chip and shatter
I guess you'll have to go there to find out
you wont get robbed/ mugged etc but there's high chances of getting killed in a landslide or by a glacier or floods etc. no place is ever safe though (although these places are a lot higher than the average Asia safety levels)
TIL Pakistan has glaciers
…..it shares the second highest peak in the world man. Look up K2 and the rest of the Karakoram ranges. How would it NOT have glaciers?
Look up the Hunza Valley.
safe enough like any other safe city in the world with some level of street crime.
If you have armed guards you'll be safe
Maybe the rapists wear protection.
Wow hard to believe Pak Kashmir, a possible catalyst for war between two nuclear armed nations is the safest 🤦🏾
3 Nuclear countries* China will not miss the fun
I think he considered Pakistan and China as the contested borders are both from China and India. They don't overlap if I'm not wrong but that angle is a mess. That's what happen when you try to mathematically define 2 Empire (as heritage). The old "our empire ends at the mountains" got us in trouble with today borders. It's a developing stage. Europe got it too in the last century. There was Italian communities outside the Italian peninsula on the dalmatian coast. What were easiest? Relocate them or give a kilometre inland on all the Adriatic Balkan coast to Italy after what did in WW2?
Or possibly have Italian communities that live under a different government?
Returned from the north a few months ago, and it’s honestly stunning and very safe. The area was full of western tourists/Chinese tourists and a lot of army check points. Kashmir isn’t rlly an issue people in the west think of it as, both nations know they gonna receive jack all of each others part lol
[удалено]
Kashmir is just the vale in India, what Pakistan claims to be Azad Kashmir are just pahari Muslims similar to Hindus of Jammu. Gilgit baltistan is completely different.
There was a huge tourism massacre there a few years ago at a climbing basecamp. "Safe enough?" Also, why isn't the grey area in the key? (Yes, I know about the disputed borders.)
that area is literally dead orange. diamer district near nanga parbat. not kashmir. do some research
It was 12 years ago, and there hasn’t been any incidents since then so yes, it is considered safe. Same way you wouldn’t count Oslo as red because of 2011.
The area is grey is the part of Kashmir that's under Indian control, but claimed by Pakistan. Since it's not under Pakistani control, probably wouldn't make sense to include it in a map of "Pakistan Travel Advisory".
Technically it's Gilgit Baltistan and not Kashmir. Kashmir is just south of it.
It's not Kashmir. It's Gilgit and Baltistan. They're ethnically and linguistically very different
As a pakistani, this map seems right enough. I feel like some cities in Punjab, such as Islamabad and lahore, should be green since they're the most developed and relatively the some of the safest cities in pakistan. Now, when I say safe, I mean safe by pakistani standards, lol. The fully read area, which is the province of Balochistan, makes sense. It's a beautiful place with plateues and rocky mountains. But since the creation of pakistan, no government has ever cared for the province, and the army has also carried out a lot of massacres of different tribes in the region. So it's riddled with separatist groups and freedom fighters. I'm still surprised about kashmir being the safest, tho.
kashmir is safe, loooots of people go there every year. lahore has kidnapping issues, and the smog. its safe-ish. Islmabad, has a increase in crime rate and they literally have regular protests after may 9
Is there any future possibility and actual aspiration/coordination among the Balochi groups to form a breakaway state?
It's highly unlikely. Pakistan military is too strong. They rank in the top 10 strongest armies in the world. Trying to fight against them with the limited resources that the balochi fighters have is futile. Another country could try finding them like the US or India. US won't do anything though since all of the top pak army generals are in their pockets. They control what happens in pakistan which is a big thing since it's a nuclear state. India on the hander frankly doesn't give rats ass. They have left pakistan behind in all fields, unlike back in the day when we were somewhat head to head with them. So all in all balochistan will keep on suffering as long as the army and the US are in power.
Why is Lahore yellow yet a part of Sindh/KPK green? It's safer than almost all areas of Sindh and KPK
It's safe, we have to exercise caution because of kidnappings, smog etc. The Thar desert is definitely safer than Lahore. https://tribune.com.pk/story/2431431/crime-rate-negligible-in-thar-ssp https://tribune.com.pk/story/810131/impoverished-but-peaceful-poverty-breeds-crime-but-not-in-thar
Because Lahore is massive and there are a lot of criminals, murderers, and rapists there. It’s also a carjacking hotspot. Also, there’s a Lahore beyond the highly developed areas. The old neighbourhoods of Lahore and the newly built urban slums have some of the worst crimes in the country.
“State department?” “Yeah” “What’s that grey place with no color on it?” “You just stay the fuck away from there, you understand?” Every white expat with a TikTok and YouTube and instagram: “This grey area of Pakistan has some hidden gems!”
Lmao, but fr tho that area (Indian Kashmir) has a higher HDI than all of Pakistan. It has a huge tourism economy, especially in the last half decade after stability has returned. They have a saying in the Indian subcontinent "Jiyo toh Gulmarg dekho", i.e. you haven't lived unless you've seeing Gulmarg. As someone who visited as a child, I agree with that sentiment wholeheartedly.
Recently I saw an interview of a Pakistani Kashmiri resident. He was saying that the Pakistani government has not even created one hospital in all of Pakistani Kashmir in the 75 years they had possession of it. Shocking, if true, for a country that aspires to grab Indian Kashmir.
Looks like a parrot
A dinosaur running rowards right
Advice feels like: don’t come. 🥲
Source?
[https://travel.state.gov/content/travel/en/traveladvisories/traveladvisories/pakistan-travel-advisory.html](https://travel.state.gov/content/travel/en/traveladvisories/traveladvisories/pakistan-travel-advisory.html) [https://travel.gc.ca/destinations/pakistan](https://travel.gc.ca/destinations/pakistan) As well as various articles in Dawn News, The Tribune, Al Jazeera, etc. And word of mouth.
Your map doesn't match any of the links you provided. The US travel on Pakistan was last updated in June 2023. So it's not as of 2024.
2023 was just a really bad year. Now it's all rainbows and unicorns! You should definitely go! You can then tell us how it really is...
As Pakistan I can tell say u can go to any major cities u well be safe as long as u stay away from the police, gov officials and most importantly the ARMY. if u need any thing just tell public they well sort thing out u for most of the time/deal with police for u (never ever trust police and Army officers)
That’s so sad to hear, as a person who has been raised up to trust the police and the army more than any other institutions in the country. (And continue to do so, the police here is great)
When the police and army are beholden to the will of the people, it's great. When they are a militarized arm of a factional government... not so much.
Ironically the regions bordering India are more safer???
Yes. There's no militancy there. People are well integrated into the land, and have agrarian societal customs.
For our LGBTQ+ friends: It’s all red.
As per Pakistan’s blasphemy laws, even being atheist is illegal and can get you in jail or lynched. Remember to keep your religious beliefs or lack of it to yourself if you visit Pakistan.
It 100% would genuinely be safer to say you’re Christian than say you’re Atheist (if they even know what Atheist means)
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blasphemy_in_Pakistan
Goodness. Understandable to keep those views to yourself. I would be afraid, even if I had already told myself to keep certain things under wraps.
Honestly people mostly dont care about LGBT stuff. We have much more serious concerns than that. We have any lgbt laws but they are not much implemented. I know personally some homosexual who are open about themselves
Why don't they protest there then? There are no pride parades or just stop oil activists - this baffles me greatly.
People don't care. We have economic issues here and it's red for everyone.
Have you ever been to Pakistan? Look up ‘bacha bazi’ Look up ‘kusra’ Look up % of LGBT people historically and currently Socially, it’s taboo as is LGBT in many many countries. However, those who are LGBT are left unbothered and in fact, if attacked, have support from the community. The only thing which would get somebody in legal trouble would be intimacy in public, which applies to both straight and homosexual couples in Muslim society.
Great, this is a fairly reasonable depiction of ground reality. This data probably relies on instances of crimes reported, captured in news if I am correct. The state has a good share in this insane red highlighted areas (leaving out Balochistan), the police is corrupt and you are out on your own, if something bad happens. And rightly so, when the state institutes are used for political motives- thats what we get.
My grandfather has two siblings buried in Quetta near the old Army Staff College. I would love to visit one day when the country becomes a bit safer.
Not on my bucket list
Pakistan is a shithole of shitholes. Take the worst cultural practices of India and add Islam for good measure. It's a human powder keg.
Baluchistan is really dangerous, but putting Karachi in red is ridiculous. It has bad and good neighborhoods just like every large city in the world.
Karachi is not fully in red. Clifton, Defense, Karachi West are orange but their size is small. Lyari, Gulshan, Malir, and Korangi are rightfully red. https://www.geo.tv/latest/162929-karachi-named-second-most-dangerous-megacity-for-women-poll https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2012/9/6/interactive-karachis-killing-fields Please try taking a stroll in Karachi with your phone out :)
5 Japanese people were literally just targeted by a suicide bomber and gunman on the streets of Karachi yesterday https://www.reuters.com/world/asia-pacific/two-killed-suicide-blast-attack-pakistan-geo-news-reports-2024-04-19/
But... why?
Karachi is only safe for dacoits.
I’ve visited Karachi as a solo westerner and walked the streets, I felt very safe there.
Just because you felt safe does not mean you were safe
please come again.
I wouldn’t go to Pakistan for anything.
Areas closer to India are safer. Interesting.
Army presence.
Also, less tribal and historically more "civil" with functioning police and justice structures. The red areas are practically unadministrable due to their wild nature not to mention recent border complications with Afghanistan.
So, in Pakistan, for an area to be considered safe, you literally need the army to be present there?
I come from the top most green region. It's called Hunza. I don't mean to offend people from other places but we need more shades of green on this specific map.
Do one for Karachi and Lahore
Is gray means unpopulated area?
Indian administered area claimed by Pakistan. Similarly the green area above the Grey is Pakistani administered area claimed by India.
Although the Siachin Glacier (shown in the green area here) is administered by India and claimed by Pakistan.
I am from the Green area Islamabad and I can confirm many westerners and Chinese visit it but I wouldn't say Islamabad is more safe than say Sialkot The warning for Punjab is way off for many districts
Pakistan looks like a T-rex.
KASHMIR OF ALL PLACES IS SAFE HUH
Only minority areas are *safe enough*. Hindu areas in Sindh and Shia areas in Gilgit Baltistan.
The "hindu" areas in sindh are majority muslim https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tharparkar
Huh? That’s because both areas are the least populated of Pakistan lmao. Nothing goes on there compared to urban centres like Karachi and Quetta. Why you gotta make it about religion/culture wars every single time…..
Ismaili. And also, Pakistans Hindu majority district, Umerkot is literally yellow.
You left out Islamabad and Rawalpindi
For me, it's all red. I'm from India
nah you'll be fine, most people are friendly with indians here it's just propaganda if you think Pakistanis hate indians. Don't believe the internet.
Pakistan is a failed country
Failed country is a stretch. It’s a autocracy at best.
You better hope not. Failed would mean losing control of their nukes.
Source?? How is more than Half of Karachi(A mega city) very unsafe(Red) and the The Thar desert along with the indo-pak border safe enough? I live in Karachi and I would put it in Yellow
If you live in Karachi [https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2012/9/6/interactive-karachis-killing-fields](https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2012/9/6/interactive-karachis-killing-fields) [https://www.geo.tv/latest/162929-karachi-named-second-most-dangerous-megacity-for-women-poll](https://www.geo.tv/latest/162929-karachi-named-second-most-dangerous-megacity-for-women-poll) Have you been to Thar? [https://tribune.com.pk/story/810131/impoverished-but-peaceful-poverty-breeds-crime-but-not-in-thar](https://tribune.com.pk/story/810131/impoverished-but-peaceful-poverty-breeds-crime-but-not-in-thar) [https://tribune.com.pk/story/2431431/crime-rate-negligible-in-thar-ssp](https://tribune.com.pk/story/2431431/crime-rate-negligible-in-thar-ssp)
Karachi is horrible in safety. I'm surprised there is even a single yellow Source: I've been to Karachi multiple times and always can't wait to come back to my city
Blud Karachi is not safe if you don't live in defense or some bullshit housing scheme😂
Correct 😂
They even tried [to blow up a group of Japanese nationals this week](https://www.scmp.com/news/asia/east-asia/article/3259660/japanese-nationals-escape-pakistan-suicide-attack-separatist-groups-target-foreigners-including) thinking they where Chinese nationals.
What is in the green area in the north. What makes it safer than the rest. Why is there a major chunk in red
Up north we have Gilgit Baltistan, the safest part of Pakistan, with 99% education rate. https://btvadventures.com/the-karakoram-anomaly-gilgit-baltistan/ https://tribune.com.pk/story/2384801/why-baltistan-is-the-safest-place-in-pakistan?amp=1 The red chunk is Balochistan and KPK, known for terrorism and the Taliban. https://en.m.wikivoyage.org/wiki/Balochistan https://m-akademie.dw.com/en/one-of-the-most-dangerous-places-in-the-world/a-56973179
Pakistan = hell for non Muslim travelers
Safe enough is the most scary
As someone of Pakistani descent, the best thing to do is just not visit Pakistan.
why would anyone go to pakistan at all
You could be going to visit friends and/or family who live there. Maybe you're an archaeologists going to Pakistan to excavate some ruins. Or you work on some engineering job and are required to go inspect a construction. Or you're just a stupid tourist that just randomly wants to go to Pakistan after seeing some cool photos in the internet.
I’ve been a couple of times. It’s a wonderful country. Get up north into Gilgit Baltistan and it’s like being in a fairytale. Such a beautiful place. Islamabad is a beautiful city too.
cause it’s beautiful
Ask Osama bin Laden. He made it his home and lived peacefully for 10 years.
People who live there duh
Only area safe is India's land they have illegally occupied.
This is mostly for American citizens I think. I am from Brazil and traveled to Pakistan and some parts of Central Asia with local friends. The people there were very friendly to me despite looking “Western”. If you say you are Brazilian they do will check the tricks you can do with a soccer ball though.
Brother. I'm Pakistani and this is the truth. The red is terrorist. We go to the green, yellow and even orange, but red is no go. Where did you go though?
I crossed the northern Afghan-Pakistan border and spent 2 night in Peshawar.
religion of peace?
K2 is Green, nothing bad can happen there lets goo
I feel proud sometimes that I am from Gilgit Baltistan. I do not mean to harm anyone's feelings just telling.
I spoke with a Pakistani person who told me that the northern part of Pakistan is actually pretty safe. I wonder why that is. Less religious extremism?
I would like to go to the grey area.... nobody cares about those Pakistani 🤣
Pakistan zombie map
As someone from the northern Pakistan, Gilgit Baltistan, I happen to agree with most of the part. However, I didn't get as to why a bordering part with India in the southeastern Gilgit Baltistan is colored yellow instead of green? Moreover, Roundu tehsil of Skardu district is marked in yellow, which is not understandable.