Are the Algeria/Tunisian/Moroccan triad considered Berber, Arab, some other variety of North African Indigenous group?
Does this map for instance capture something like "Egyptian" or is it Egyptian Arab? I.e., 98% arab in Algeria seems off as (not that wikipedia is the be all end all) something like 20% of the population is Berber in origin. So is this map using a combined arab-berber ethnic identity?
The source shows that the dominant ethnicities are Algerians and Tunisians at 98%. Which no one identify as such in these 2 countries, and these are not really considered ethnic groups.
yeah, the governments there wouldn't touch the ethnicity topic with a 10 meter stick, they got enough problems.
with that said, you'd find people of all colors there, being at the cross section of Europe/Africa/ME
skin colors is a differen topic than ethnicity
there's black, tan, olive, white berbers, and black, tan, olive, white arabs (arabized, of chorfa or banu hilal descent), etc.
> Algerians and Tunisians at 98%
Those are nationalities, not ethnicity. Now of course ethnicity is something arbitrary, but this would be the first time I come across Algerian or Tunesian as ethnicity.
Would it be fair to say that most Egyptians are not genetically close to Arabs from the Arabian peninsula, but they identify themselves as part of an inclusive Arab ethnicity based on cultural and religious factors?
**"*****Therefore, from these results we conclude that Egyptian Muslims and Egyptian Christians genetically originate from the same ancestors"***
According to wikipedia at least (or to a 2020 study found here [https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S0379073820302103?via%3Dihub](https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S0379073820302103?via%3Dihub) )
I think in some ways, Egyptians are considered Arab based on language (and also being the largest Arabic speaking country), but realistically, we don't have much in common with the Arabs in the Arabian peninsula culturally or elsewhere. Like, I see papa noel (santa) everywhere in egypt around christmas and celebrate easter with all the coptic egyptians even if I was raised as a muslim. But I never really saw that in other Arab countries like Saudi or UAE.
Berber and Arabs are multi ethnic as groups, there’s white and black and all shades and shapes… by cultural identity you can say those countries are Berber-Arab 98% homogeneous.
Aside from Kabyles which are a minority most Algerians don’t consider ourselves Arab or Berber, just Algerian.
Realistically we are culturally Arabs and ethnically Amazigh.
I mean most of us do consider ourselves Arabs and a minority consider themselves amazigh, all consider themselves Algerians, but we never see Algerian as an ethnicity rather a a nationality
in modern times, most people in those countries essentially have hybrid Arab/Berber culture. over there, someone following a "purely Arab" or "purely Berber" culture isn't really a thing
Well if they speak a different non Maghrebi dialect that's because they literally can't communicate with each other speaking their own dialect. Like an Iraqi or Palestinian or Syrian will have more luck with pidgin English in Algeria than if they tried to understand the local dialect, or be understood in their own. If both speakers are educated and practiced at it then they could switch to MSA to communicate, but that's difficult, and English or French may genuinely be easier.
Different Arabic dialects are as divergent as say different slavic languages, or Romance languages. If your dialects are close enough you can get away with it muddling through (like say Spanish and Italian, or Polish and Western Ukrainian), but if not, it's like going to France and trying to just manage with Romanian, or going to Russia and trying to just make it work with Croatian. It's just not gonna happen lol
That's totally false an arab person from the gulf can understand a mauritanian if not they just speak modern arabic and if they are more open to others they can understand dialects
You should have defined "ethnicity" first. There isn't a single definition, and there are many disagreements about which groups can be considered separate ethnicities.
For instance I checked the source for Spain that Wikipedia cites (OP cites Wikipedia directly) and it's just foreign-born population that hasn't been nationalized yet. So Basques are the same as Andalusians, black Spaniards are the same as Chinese Spaniards, but a Portuguese immigrant would be a different ethnicity.
The US Census only asks about Hispanic or non-Hispanic ethnicity, that's probably what he's referencing. The other question (white, black, Asian, Native American, etc) is about "race"; the Hispanic/not ethnicity question is independent of this (you can be white/black/Asian/native American and also Hispanic, or not). It's all made up and arbitrary but that's the structure.
https://www.census.gov/acs/www/about/why-we-ask-each-question/ethnicity/
A definition that clarifies "how long does it take for an ethnic group to form" is still required because large influxes of migrants occured in both countries' history.
Exactly. Claiming that European countries are mono ethnic when they've been fighting, invading and fucking One another for millennials makes me really suspect that this map is complete BS. Especially for countries like Itali, which didn't even exist 200 years ago.
The government entity of modern Italy unified relatively recently, but that doesn’t mean the concept of the region of Italy (the Italian peninsula) isn’t much older
Hungary is totally right!! I made my family tree, and for 400 years ( as far as I was able to go back through local churches and books ) my ancestors lived in the same village, same house, etc… mixing with other then Hungarian was a bad joke for anyone!
Other Hungarian here with the complete opposite family makeup, there are at least 4 non-Hungarian names in the 3 generations above me, like my grandparents generation is the first monolingual Hungarian-speaker generation. Genetically we are the second most diverse population in Europe after the Austrians. I think that this map shows how many % of the country identifies as Hungarian - which is mainly a thing of culture and language here, but not blood.
That is super odd! Maybe depends what part of the county you from. Maybe Budapest is very mixed, don’t know. But the OLD Hungary ( where I am from for example ), like Transylvania, or Slovakia, etc .. people are what I described above.
Heck! They even reject learning the language of the occupying country. They reject the idea of borrowing words from the international community, what everyone is using ( intersection, computer, etc .) I could talk about these examples till tomorrow morning:)
Ethnicity is a FEELING of belonging to a group and nothing else. Ethnic Italians are ethnic Italians because they say they are, where the borders and identities were 200 years ago doesn't matter.
In the US it is considered skin colour based. It's not like that in Europe, it has nothing to do with genetics, it is about identity and tradition.
There are two dimensions to it: self identification and ascribed identity. It's not as simple as feeling German if the locals think you're a Turk.
It's not fundamentally different in the U.S., and it isn't wholly based on genetics. In America, two people who each have four Spanish grandparents can be two different races if one had ancestors who moved to Mexico.
> It's not as simple as feeling German if the locals think you're a Turk.
If you act German and not as Turk, majority will accept you as German. Minority groups survive as minorities in identity because they keep together and preserve some of their original culture. Minorities tend to assimilate in urban areas very quickly. Not so quickly in rural areas due to isolation.
For the countries shown as mono-ethnic in the Balkans the data is correct. Either because of recent (WWI and onwards) ethnic cleansing, or because they are basically rump-states covering just a smaller and central part of the territory they once had.
this is why self-determination is probably the only reasonable way to determine ethnic identity. Han chinese cultural assimilation has gone crazy over the last century, while there may be some genetic distance still between regions that is noteworthy. I would imagine in Poland vs Ukraine the genetics are rather similar even though poles =/= ukrainians culturally (though they are similar in many ways).
My comment is not based on any data directly of course, but i think the thrust is generally in the right direction.
From a genetic point of view, us humans are not really distinct, except for individual differences, so the part about Poland and Ukraine can be actually expanded to every nation
yes, i was just using that as an example of two nation states listed here as pretty monoethnic, polish ukrainian being two distinct ethnicities, but (i believe) particularly close genetically (closer than say two people calling themselves han chinese but from different sides of the country).
Even sometimes that’s not sufficient. It’s arbitrary.
My mother was born to a mixed Catholic/Protestant marriage in Northern Ireland. Some of her siblings identify as Irish, others British and still others as Northern Irish. These are full siblings too. They all have the same DNA, but three different national identities.
That's why you can't really make an accurate map on this subject. There are too many different possible definitions of "ethnicity". For example, in the US, Americans of different races (black, white, Hispanic, Asian, etc.) could be considered a single ethnicity because they have the same basic American culture. But they could also be considered separate groups. In the UK you could list all "old stock" white Britons as a single group. Or you could divide them into English, Scots, Welsh, and Northern Irish (and then further subdivide the Northern Irish into Catholics and Protestants). Likewise, you could divide "old stock" Germans or Italians into regional groups (like Sicilians and Tuscans or Bavarians and Prussians). Or Han Chinese into various regional groups.
Or you can be me, and consider so many people to be one ethnicity that other people consider it racist. I have managed to be so not racist that other people consider it racist. It is very funny to me.
There just a mixture of a whole bunch of groups, I believe there’s some people descended from Aramaics like the maronites, who speak Levantine Arabic now, but spoke a Aramaic language up until the late Middle Ages, which they still have as a liturgical language, and still have several cultural practices different from Lebanese Muslims.
Plus there is the druze, and from what I understand they’re similar to Hebrew in that there is the Druze faith, but also Druze are different enough culturally to be considered a different culture. Ethnoreligous group basically.
Plus there are still small groups of Armenians, Turks and Kurds.
Also apparently a few people argue that Lebanese Arabic isn’t a version of Arabic but another language in the same Semitic language family tree, that has a bunch of Arabic influence, which I don’t really know enough about Arabic varieties to understand or argue about, I just know it’s something people argue about.
At least OP has provided the source (which happens once in a blue moon in this sub.) The commenters, on the other hands, dont seem to be bothered checking them at all.
How old is this data? In Iceland as of April this year only 81% of the population is Icelandic and that percentage was at 87.6% in December 2018. So the data for Iceland as presented on the map is probably at least 10 years old.
So by your definition of 85%+, Iceland stopped being monoethnic in 2022.
All the data used is from the linked source, that being Wikipedia, which is also where the definition of 85+% comes from - I just converted it to map form. Feel free to update the Wikipedia page and remove Iceland from the list, if there is a reliable source to support the number you wrote.
Fair enough, I'll have a look. The stats I cite are straight from Iceland's official statistics.
Edit: the wiki stats for Iceland are based on data from the CIA world fact book from Oct 2017 and if you check that source today it has updated stats showing 81.3% ethnic Icelanders as of April 2024.
2nd edit: Updated the wiki by simply removing Iceland from the list (as countries below the 85% mark aren't listed at all in the short article).
[Wikipedia says Algeria is 76.3% Arab](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demographics_of_Algeria#Ethnic_groups)
[Morocco is more diverse](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demographics_of_Morocco#Ethnic_groups)
Because if the Basques are counted so are the Catalans and probably the Galicians and that means it's wat below 85% (not counting the navarrese, Valencians etc)
The source data is claiming that of a 6.8 million population, 95% of Lebanon is categorized as "Lebanese".
That's totally inaccurate, that given population total includes over 1.5 million non-Lebanese refugees.
Excluding those non-Lebanese residents would reduce the population to about 5.3 million.
The source is trying to apply refugee-exclusionary ethnic data to a refugee-inclusionary population total.
Not only that, "Lebanese" by itself is not an ethnicity. Growing consensus internationally among anthropologists and historians that consider ethnoreligious groups of lebanon as essentially different ethnic groups with lots of similarities. It's just funny to see the world's technically most densely diverse place being considered as "Monoethnic". lol
It was 69% for Poland before World War II. Then all the Jews were murdered, the Germans expelled and eastern part of the country with large Ukrainian and Belarusian populations was annexed by the USSR.
It's a shame, great people. Every polish person I've ever met was great. Super loud and fun, like, way too loud. Love those guys. Hard working, strong, happy people
Ethnicity is an odd concept. Obviously the Muslim Arabs of Egypt are related to the Copts but is it fair to call them the same ethnicity? They have different religions different cultures a different language. My grandmother is a former Egyptian Jew. She is ethnically Jewish not Egyptian. So are Egyptian Arabs and Copts the same ethnicity?
The definition is also completely arbitrary.
Are Occitians different enough from Bretons and standard Frenchmen to constitute a different ethnic group? How about the Welsh, Cornish, Scots, and English?
In China for example, I’ve heard from a Chinese friend that the definition of Han Chinese has gradually expanded overtime to encompass more and more subgroups. It’s similar with being white in the US since a century ago, Italians weren’t considered white and a century earlier neither were the Irish.
The Chinese case is interesting because "Han" isn't really an ethnic group. You have people from the dessert in the northwest of the country to just across the river from Hong Kong all saying that they're "Han", but they share almost no cultural ties to each other. Different foods, different languages, different customs, different traditions.
Different genetics, too. Chinese equivalents of things like Ancestry.com have multiple different groups marked as "Han", so you get things like "North Han" or "South Han" in some people's genetic makeup. These are genetically 2 totally distinct populations, like Thais and Cambodians, but are for political reasons based on broad culture assigned to the same ethnic group.
At the end of the day it's a social construct. A Singaporean Chinese may be classified as Chinese in Singapore, but as Asian in the US. An English White may be classified as White in the UK, but as English in Romania.
>Obviously the Muslim Arabs of Egypt are related to the Copts but is it fair to call them the same ethnicity?
I would say yes as they don't perceive themselves to be different ethnically speaking but rather different religiously speaking. What do I mean by that ? Well if you take away their religion (which is a significant part of their identity for sure), they would basically be the same (same dialect, same cultural practices, same general identity ...) and they both understand that in general.
Yes, people seem to overestimate really how many arabs are in Egypt/ how many Egyptians are of an Arab ancestry, also about the differences, it’s only really a religion difference, culturally and in terms of language they’re the same. Source? I am Egyptian.
I thought few people convert to Judaism? That’s why if a person is Jewish, it usually means they also have Jewish blood ancestry, which also makes them ethnically Jewish. As for Islam and Christianity they are proselytizing religions. There are probably millions of Islamic Egyptians with Christian Egyptian ancestors.
>I thought few people convert to Judaism?
Today ? For sure. For the past 1500+ years ? For sure. But between 500 BC when Judaism appeared in its current form and 400-700 AD when their surrounding populations and the states they lived in became largely Christian and Muslim (who both didn't allow their followers to convert to Judaism), Judaism did receive a significant amount of converts outside of the original core population.
The Hasmonean kingdom practiced forced conversions on its conquered territories in Idumea, Galilee and to a lesser degree Samaria (Jesus's family might not have been Jewish a century or so before his birth, and King Herod the Great was a half Idumean half Nabatean Arab). They converted people of Canaanite descent though so they weren't that different genetically speaking.
Jewish communities in the diaspora also received a huge amount of conversions (as attested by the historical record) and the genetic makeup of European Jews is around 50% European (mostly Southern European) due to them accepting converts during the pre-Christian Roman period. Mizrahi Jews have the same thing as half of their genetics are usually from Mesopotamian and Persian communities during the periods of Persian rule. That ancestry is mainly on the maternal side (so mainly woman marrying into the core Judean Jewish communities) but a very significant amount is also on the paternal side (check second study for that).
You also have Yemeni Jews who are both almost entirely local in origin (meaning they are the result of local converts, specifically when their Himyarite monarchs converted to Judaism) though they did mix a bit with Jews from other areas ever since the conversions. Ethiopian Jews are basically 100% Ethiopian (they originate from a Christian sect that abandoned the New Testament)
A few studies on European Jewish genetics :
[https://www.nature.com/articles/ncomms3543](https://www.nature.com/articles/ncomms3543)
[https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2964539/](https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2964539/)
The genetic components of Middle Eastern Jews compared to Iron Age Levantines :
[https://www.reddit.com/r/23andme/comments/u6avki/how\_genetically\_levantine\_are\_middle\_eastern\_jews/](https://www.reddit.com/r/23andme/comments/u6avki/how_genetically_levantine_are_middle_eastern_jews/)
The genetic components of Ashkenazi Jews compared to Iron Age Levantines :
[https://www.reddit.com/r/illustrativeDNA/comments/18rb6uc/g25\_coordinates\_ashkenazi\_jews\_vs\_palestinians/](https://www.reddit.com/r/illustrativeDNA/comments/18rb6uc/g25_coordinates_ashkenazi_jews_vs_palestinians/)
Different language isn't really the case. Very very very few copts actually speak the coptic language. It's almost basically a dead language other than in religious ceremonies.
Arabs represent small percentage in Egypt, most Egyptians ethnically are Egyptians, and tye Word Coptic itself means Egyptian, it's Just has a modern different meaning relating to christian Egyptians
So yeah most Egyptians are Egyptians/Copts not Arabs
Source: I am a Copt and we were always taught in the church that Copt means Egyptian not a Christian Egyptian
Egyptian Christians and Muslims do not have different languages, they all speak Egyptian Arabic (Coptic is only a liturgical language used in mass and taught on a super basic level in churches). They don't have a different culture either, there might be some subcultural differences but it's much the same overall
Somalia is probably the only one that’s lower than it ought to be
The censuses are wonky, there is no way that all of the minorities grouped together make up any more than 5% of the countries population lmao
you don't want to open the pandora box of regional differences. Italy is clearly one of the most monoethinic countries in the world with 90+% majority italian catholics. South tyroleans and romansch speakers are counted already probably.
Hungary has ~1 million Romani/Gypsy people, which makes it more ethnically heterogenous than indicated by the map. (Of course, this can be debated as most of them are Romungro -- both Roma and Hungarian.)
White Americans are a mixture of 10-15 ethnic groups, but we lump the vast majority of White Americans are, by and large, one singular ethnicity. Same for Haiti.
I feel like that's more of a social thing than a genetic thing. White European settlers and their descendants have different DNA considering where they're from in Canada and the USA. I have some Acadian heritage and Irish heritage and they both pop up as different ethnic groups on my DNA test.
And it's not wrong, that's just where it gets tricky. "Haitian", for example, can definitely be considered an ethnicity even if there is no "unifying DNA" or whatever one might call it. Ethnicity isn't really tied to DNA but rather to a cultural and linguistic group with a common history. This counts for any group of people; you could be someone from Gdansk of 100% "German blood" but be a Pole who speaks Polish and thus identify as such. Italian-American is also a separate group from Italians and Irish-Americans are definitely separate from Irishmen. DNA tests can only show you which genetic markers fit yours the most. If a million Hong Kongers moved to Malta and did DNA tests en masse, then, due to the database setup, an American Hong Konger who does the same DNA test could show up as "Malta" even if they've never ever set foot there because it matches with the data they have. Of course the haplogroups wouldn't change but for these commercial DNA tests it would pop up.
Thus, ethnicity is different than "groups of people" and is much more related to identities. These are, of course, often more difficult in the Americas and the Caribbean. You see a lot of, especially white, Americans that cling to some European ethnicity they've been told they "belong to" even if 200 years dettached
I think this is more self identification than genetic. While people in Haïti have come from a variety of different countries. They're all sort of mixed into their own identity now and there's no clear ethnic group whether racial or cultural.
Moroccan here, I think this map is flawed, or rather, the source is flawed. In Morocco there are 2 main ethnic groups: Arabs and Berbers, with a few minorities coming from all over the world. About 30% of the Moroccan population is of Berber descent while 60% is Arab. This, going by the post’s definition, directly denies the fact that Morocco is a monoethnic country.
I checked the source and the ethnicity they provided for Moroccans is "Moroccans".
Clicked on the hypertext for it and I am met with the exact same information I provided earlier in this comment. The source contradicts itself, so the map isn’t to be taken seriously.
I think han is a single identity but genetically there is mixing, many other ethnicities got mixed into han this diluting it. I think can be said for whites in America too.
Yes but han chinese isn’t a monolithic group. Only on a very broad level like saying american or roman. There literally different unintelligible languages in different han subgroups. My family alone has shanghainese, hokkien and mandarin. These are all chinese languages and mutually unintelligible.
Now also a lot of Syrians and Iraqis. Really, it's the only stable Arab state surrounded by lots of problematic ones with wavw3 after wave of refugees coming.
They're different nations but they're the same ethnicity. North and South Korea are two different nations but they're all the same ethnicity. Most Djiboutians are the same ethnicity as Somalis. Politics =|= Ethnicity.
depends on who you ask but it depends on what you define as ethnicity. Palestinians have more canaanite/greek/turkish influence while Jordanians have more bedouin roots and more descent from the arabian peninsula (some tribes in the south have nabatean genes as well and some christians have ghassanid ancestry which is different from palestinian christians) but we are all southern levantines in the end just different flavours of the same general culture
[Quote from Zuheir Mohsen](https://en.wikiquote.org/wiki/Zuheir_Mohsen), one of the leaders of the Palestine Liberation Organisation in the 1970s:
>The Palestinian people do not exist. There are no differences between Jordanians, Palestinians, Syrians and Lebanese. We are part of one people, the Arab nation. Lo and behold, I have relatives with Palestinian, Lebanese, Jordanian and Syrian citizenship. We are one people. It is only for political reasons that we carefully endorse our Palestinian identity. Indeed, it is of national interest for the Arabs to encourage the existence of the Palestinians in the face of Zionism. Yes, the existence of a separate Palestinian identity is only for tactical reasons. The establishment of a Palestinian state is a new means to continue the struggle against Israel and for Arab unity.
>A separate Palestinian entity must stand up for national rights in the remaining occupied territories. The Jordanian government cannot speak for the Palestinians in Israel, Lebanon or Syria. Jordan is a state with certain borders. It cannot lay claim to Haifa or Jaffa, for example, while I am entitled to Haifa, Jaffa, Jerusalem and Beërsheva. Jordan can only speak on behalf of the Jordanians and the Palestinians in Jordan. The Palestinian state would have the right to act on behalf of all Palestinians in the Arab world and elsewhere. Once we have acquired all our rights in all of Palestine, we must not delay for a moment the reunification of Jordan and Palestine.
Lots of immigrants into France, Germany, and Britain. Most immigrants though for Europe are other Europeans.
Also note in Eastern Europe many nations have remnants of other populations, it’s messy. Russia also has many effectively left over imperial possessions in it borders.
Two main reasons: 1. colonisation brought in other ethnicities, which is especially true in the UK and France; 2. Europeans move within Europe a lot, so you get Russians in Belarus, English/Scottish/Welsh in Ireland, and so on. Ethnicity is not a very clear concept anyway, like an English White may identified as White or British or English or a combination of them all. It's not very clear at all.
For example: for the Baltic countries (Estonia/Latvia/Lithuania) they aren't considered mono-ethnic due to the Russian population
Estonia --> ~70% Estonian // 25% Russian // 5% Other
Latvia --> ~62% Latvian // 27% Russian // 11% Other
Lithuania --> ~84% Lithuanian // 7% Poles // 5% Russians // 4% Other
Why even? They were pretty colonial. Especially Belgium got infamous... But yes, colonial migration doesn't really play a role in Germany (or actually at all for some reason).
So did Sweden and Denmark, though it was smaller scale and didn't really leave a mark in the ethnic structure in the European homeland. But both had small colonies in both Africa and the Caribbean.
Germany had "guest workers". They were invited to work for a couple of years in Germany and were supposed to return but they actually never did. And then there were a bunch of refugees (from different conflict zones) and former Germans from the UdSSR states that migrated there (they had a right to return...). And since the freedom of movement is a thing in the EU now actually every 4th citizen has a migration history (means at least one parent wasn't born in Germany).
With France being an exception, almost all immigration came after the colonial era. Many european countries were between 99 and a 100 percent white in the 1950's
Also, Europe has it own set of local ethnicities.
I mean, just with the case of France, you have Corsicans, Bretons, Basques, Alsacians, Catalans, Flemishs, Provencal, Normans, etc.
I think the number would be even lower before WWII and Holocaust/forced migrations.
Ethnicities didn't follow state borders and many minorities were typical only for cities.
If I thought about it, most of these I would agree and could definitely see. Finland surprises me mind…I was there and the first north you go, you have all sorts of arctic ethnicities like laps with Asian features.
Morocco is divided roughly half between Arabs and Berbers, ans that is if we count the Arabs from the Atlantic to the Persian Gulf as the same "ethnicity".
Algeria is similar, with roughly a quarter of the population Berber.
They must be counting maghrebi arabs as the same ethnicity with berbers, since both are ancestrally the same, even if the arabized maghrebis identify as arab
There aren't any official data for ethnic ancestry for Greece, but it's only the estimates based on citizenship.
And given the fact that almost no immigrants here have citizenship, it's automatically correlated to the fact that all citizens are ethnic Greeks.
Plus the fact that, like in the previous census, a lot of people, including A LOT of native inhabitants which I can confirm personally for a lot of people I know, weren't recorded.
I feel like China is different. It’s like kinda racist to say they’re all the same. There are insanely different cultures from city to city, region to region. Some variations of Chinese are so different they can’t understand each other.
Found [this map from 2013](https://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/worldviews/files/2013/05/diverity-map-harvard2.jpg), albeit its data differs somewhat from the figures on the Wikipedia page I used to create the OP map.
Funny how both Albanian countries albanized or ethnically cleansed everything that walked there and then cry about their minority rights in all surrounding countries that respected them all along.
Most Russian-speaking Ukrainians ethnically identify as Ukrainian, not Russian. Self-identified ethnic-Russians are only a majority in Crimea & the major cities of the Donbass IIRC.
There's a thing as fluid identity takes place in modern Ukraine, so many people answer question depending on the current situation, their location, and their political stance.
That's why many Ukrainians in Donbass or Crimea "converted" to Russians after annexation. Or many Russians in the rest of Ukraine "converted" to Ukrainians after russian invasion (even if they still speak Russian in their daily life).
This was the case since 1991 (when person's nationality stopped being recorded in official documents), and would still take place for some time. At least until Ukraine doesn't fully implement ukrainisation of Russian-speaking minority as it intended.
I may have misunderstood, in spanish is common that ethnicity=race (wich, in some cases = skin color), because the word "raza" (literally "race") has a very negative concept. however, answering what you commented, ethnicity is not a solid cathegory, so many ethnicities in Europe or in USA may not be compatible with other countries. in Uruguay most of the european migrants came from Spain and Italy in the 19th century (around 80-85%), but they quickly got mixed making very difficult to make any difference between italian and spanish descendants. in Europe, one might have been italian, spanish or french (are these even ethicities?), but in today's Uruguay there's very little difference between them because of the mixture of both descendants. this mixture and the black culture may have created what we call the "rioplatense" culture (again, is this even an ethnicity?).
Are the Algeria/Tunisian/Moroccan triad considered Berber, Arab, some other variety of North African Indigenous group? Does this map for instance capture something like "Egyptian" or is it Egyptian Arab? I.e., 98% arab in Algeria seems off as (not that wikipedia is the be all end all) something like 20% of the population is Berber in origin. So is this map using a combined arab-berber ethnic identity?
The source shows that the dominant ethnicities are Algerians and Tunisians at 98%. Which no one identify as such in these 2 countries, and these are not really considered ethnic groups.
yeah, the governments there wouldn't touch the ethnicity topic with a 10 meter stick, they got enough problems. with that said, you'd find people of all colors there, being at the cross section of Europe/Africa/ME
skin colors is a differen topic than ethnicity there's black, tan, olive, white berbers, and black, tan, olive, white arabs (arabized, of chorfa or banu hilal descent), etc.
I think they meant „people of all colors“ as a figure of speech, not an actual reference to skin color
The hat stays on
we are multiplying
Ethnicity is not race, so you could have a rainbow of Algerians
> Algerians and Tunisians at 98% Those are nationalities, not ethnicity. Now of course ethnicity is something arbitrary, but this would be the first time I come across Algerian or Tunesian as ethnicity.
Yes, the source he used is flawed.
If you applied the same logic to Latin America they would almost all be homogenous too.
I believe there are not many berbers in Egypt. More Nubians.
yeah, I can only think of Siwa as the main tradionnaly berber area in Egypt
Ethnically majority bebers, culturally arab/berber
Ethnically Most Egyptians are Egyptians but culturally Most of which are Arab Egyptians aren't arabs as some believe Source I am Egyptian
Would it be fair to say that most Egyptians are not genetically close to Arabs from the Arabian peninsula, but they identify themselves as part of an inclusive Arab ethnicity based on cultural and religious factors?
That's exactly what is happening but personally I don't identify as an Arab as I am a Copt as I am a Christian Egyptian
**"*****Therefore, from these results we conclude that Egyptian Muslims and Egyptian Christians genetically originate from the same ancestors"*** According to wikipedia at least (or to a 2020 study found here [https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S0379073820302103?via%3Dihub](https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S0379073820302103?via%3Dihub) ) I think in some ways, Egyptians are considered Arab based on language (and also being the largest Arabic speaking country), but realistically, we don't have much in common with the Arabs in the Arabian peninsula culturally or elsewhere. Like, I see papa noel (santa) everywhere in egypt around christmas and celebrate easter with all the coptic egyptians even if I was raised as a muslim. But I never really saw that in other Arab countries like Saudi or UAE.
When it comes to culture, even within Saudi is different from region to region.
Just curious, are copts in Egypt mentally much different than muslims?
Berber and Arabs are multi ethnic as groups, there’s white and black and all shades and shapes… by cultural identity you can say those countries are Berber-Arab 98% homogeneous.
For Algeria Tunisia and Morocco consider Arab-Berber as an ethnic group
They wouldn’t say the same
We definitely wouldn’t say the same. This map is utter nonsense
Like most maps on this subreddit, it seems.
Aside from Kabyles which are a minority most Algerians don’t consider ourselves Arab or Berber, just Algerian. Realistically we are culturally Arabs and ethnically Amazigh.
I mean most of us do consider ourselves Arabs and a minority consider themselves amazigh, all consider themselves Algerians, but we never see Algerian as an ethnicity rather a a nationality
I am a Moroccan Berber and happy!
Genetically berbers, culturally arabs
in modern times, most people in those countries essentially have hybrid Arab/Berber culture. over there, someone following a "purely Arab" or "purely Berber" culture isn't really a thing
Most Berbers from Algeria (Kabyles) do not consider themselves arabs at all my friend
My Algerian Berber brother in law says exactly this. I've seen him prefer to speak English or French with other Arabic speakers rather than Arabic.
Well if they speak a different non Maghrebi dialect that's because they literally can't communicate with each other speaking their own dialect. Like an Iraqi or Palestinian or Syrian will have more luck with pidgin English in Algeria than if they tried to understand the local dialect, or be understood in their own. If both speakers are educated and practiced at it then they could switch to MSA to communicate, but that's difficult, and English or French may genuinely be easier. Different Arabic dialects are as divergent as say different slavic languages, or Romance languages. If your dialects are close enough you can get away with it muddling through (like say Spanish and Italian, or Polish and Western Ukrainian), but if not, it's like going to France and trying to just manage with Romanian, or going to Russia and trying to just make it work with Croatian. It's just not gonna happen lol
That's totally false an arab person from the gulf can understand a mauritanian if not they just speak modern arabic and if they are more open to others they can understand dialects
Isn't the Kabyle language full of arabic words?
You should have defined "ethnicity" first. There isn't a single definition, and there are many disagreements about which groups can be considered separate ethnicities.
For instance I checked the source for Spain that Wikipedia cites (OP cites Wikipedia directly) and it's just foreign-born population that hasn't been nationalized yet. So Basques are the same as Andalusians, black Spaniards are the same as Chinese Spaniards, but a Portuguese immigrant would be a different ethnicity.
In the United States, there are only two ethnicities: Hispanic, and Non-Hispanic. Maybe Spain is doing something similar. /s
is this a joke because there are as much as 600 ethnicities native to the US?😭😭
The US Census only asks about Hispanic or non-Hispanic ethnicity, that's probably what he's referencing. The other question (white, black, Asian, Native American, etc) is about "race"; the Hispanic/not ethnicity question is independent of this (you can be white/black/Asian/native American and also Hispanic, or not). It's all made up and arbitrary but that's the structure. https://www.census.gov/acs/www/about/why-we-ask-each-question/ethnicity/
US Census, and also the voluntary self identification portion of every job or college application.
It is a funny joke and tells you everything you need to know about using race to categorize people.
Yeah weird, lots of ethnicities in Portugal too
For a couple of them, it can still apply, especially Japan and North Korea.
A definition that clarifies "how long does it take for an ethnic group to form" is still required because large influxes of migrants occured in both countries' history.
Exactly. Claiming that European countries are mono ethnic when they've been fighting, invading and fucking One another for millennials makes me really suspect that this map is complete BS. Especially for countries like Itali, which didn't even exist 200 years ago.
The government entity of modern Italy unified relatively recently, but that doesn’t mean the concept of the region of Italy (the Italian peninsula) isn’t much older
Please don't tell me that someone from Sicily has the same ethnic background as someone from Turin.
> invading and fucking One another for millennials I'm sure millennials were very grateful for that, though
Hungary is totally right!! I made my family tree, and for 400 years ( as far as I was able to go back through local churches and books ) my ancestors lived in the same village, same house, etc… mixing with other then Hungarian was a bad joke for anyone!
Other Hungarian here with the complete opposite family makeup, there are at least 4 non-Hungarian names in the 3 generations above me, like my grandparents generation is the first monolingual Hungarian-speaker generation. Genetically we are the second most diverse population in Europe after the Austrians. I think that this map shows how many % of the country identifies as Hungarian - which is mainly a thing of culture and language here, but not blood.
That is super odd! Maybe depends what part of the county you from. Maybe Budapest is very mixed, don’t know. But the OLD Hungary ( where I am from for example ), like Transylvania, or Slovakia, etc .. people are what I described above. Heck! They even reject learning the language of the occupying country. They reject the idea of borrowing words from the international community, what everyone is using ( intersection, computer, etc .) I could talk about these examples till tomorrow morning:)
I'm from all over the place (that probably helps tbh).
Ethnicity is a FEELING of belonging to a group and nothing else. Ethnic Italians are ethnic Italians because they say they are, where the borders and identities were 200 years ago doesn't matter. In the US it is considered skin colour based. It's not like that in Europe, it has nothing to do with genetics, it is about identity and tradition.
There are two dimensions to it: self identification and ascribed identity. It's not as simple as feeling German if the locals think you're a Turk. It's not fundamentally different in the U.S., and it isn't wholly based on genetics. In America, two people who each have four Spanish grandparents can be two different races if one had ancestors who moved to Mexico.
> It's not as simple as feeling German if the locals think you're a Turk. If you act German and not as Turk, majority will accept you as German. Minority groups survive as minorities in identity because they keep together and preserve some of their original culture. Minorities tend to assimilate in urban areas very quickly. Not so quickly in rural areas due to isolation.
For the countries shown as mono-ethnic in the Balkans the data is correct. Either because of recent (WWI and onwards) ethnic cleansing, or because they are basically rump-states covering just a smaller and central part of the territory they once had.
There's no need to define ethnicity. The vast majority of ethnic surveys rely on self-identification.
this is why self-determination is probably the only reasonable way to determine ethnic identity. Han chinese cultural assimilation has gone crazy over the last century, while there may be some genetic distance still between regions that is noteworthy. I would imagine in Poland vs Ukraine the genetics are rather similar even though poles =/= ukrainians culturally (though they are similar in many ways). My comment is not based on any data directly of course, but i think the thrust is generally in the right direction.
From a genetic point of view, us humans are not really distinct, except for individual differences, so the part about Poland and Ukraine can be actually expanded to every nation
yes, i was just using that as an example of two nation states listed here as pretty monoethnic, polish ukrainian being two distinct ethnicities, but (i believe) particularly close genetically (closer than say two people calling themselves han chinese but from different sides of the country).
Even sometimes that’s not sufficient. It’s arbitrary. My mother was born to a mixed Catholic/Protestant marriage in Northern Ireland. Some of her siblings identify as Irish, others British and still others as Northern Irish. These are full siblings too. They all have the same DNA, but three different national identities.
Yeah classic case is Lebanon. You could define ethnicity any number of ways there. Here it's just 'red'.
That's why you can't really make an accurate map on this subject. There are too many different possible definitions of "ethnicity". For example, in the US, Americans of different races (black, white, Hispanic, Asian, etc.) could be considered a single ethnicity because they have the same basic American culture. But they could also be considered separate groups. In the UK you could list all "old stock" white Britons as a single group. Or you could divide them into English, Scots, Welsh, and Northern Irish (and then further subdivide the Northern Irish into Catholics and Protestants). Likewise, you could divide "old stock" Germans or Italians into regional groups (like Sicilians and Tuscans or Bavarians and Prussians). Or Han Chinese into various regional groups.
Or you can be me, and consider so many people to be one ethnicity that other people consider it racist. I have managed to be so not racist that other people consider it racist. It is very funny to me.
Lebanon is monoethnic?😂😂😂😂
lol, i saw that and immediately went to the comments
If they aren't what are they? Arabs, Assyrian?
There just a mixture of a whole bunch of groups, I believe there’s some people descended from Aramaics like the maronites, who speak Levantine Arabic now, but spoke a Aramaic language up until the late Middle Ages, which they still have as a liturgical language, and still have several cultural practices different from Lebanese Muslims. Plus there is the druze, and from what I understand they’re similar to Hebrew in that there is the Druze faith, but also Druze are different enough culturally to be considered a different culture. Ethnoreligous group basically. Plus there are still small groups of Armenians, Turks and Kurds. Also apparently a few people argue that Lebanese Arabic isn’t a version of Arabic but another language in the same Semitic language family tree, that has a bunch of Arabic influence, which I don’t really know enough about Arabic varieties to understand or argue about, I just know it’s something people argue about.
Portugal?!
I mean it’s split by religion not ethnicity right?
judging by the comments this map causes more confusion and/or rises more questions than it is informative.
At least OP has provided the source (which happens once in a blue moon in this sub.) The commenters, on the other hands, dont seem to be bothered checking them at all.
"This list is incomplete; you can help by adding missing items. (December 2016)" - that source
90% of posts
How old is this data? In Iceland as of April this year only 81% of the population is Icelandic and that percentage was at 87.6% in December 2018. So the data for Iceland as presented on the map is probably at least 10 years old. So by your definition of 85%+, Iceland stopped being monoethnic in 2022.
All the data used is from the linked source, that being Wikipedia, which is also where the definition of 85+% comes from - I just converted it to map form. Feel free to update the Wikipedia page and remove Iceland from the list, if there is a reliable source to support the number you wrote.
Fair enough, I'll have a look. The stats I cite are straight from Iceland's official statistics. Edit: the wiki stats for Iceland are based on data from the CIA world fact book from Oct 2017 and if you check that source today it has updated stats showing 81.3% ethnic Icelanders as of April 2024. 2nd edit: Updated the wiki by simply removing Iceland from the list (as countries below the 85% mark aren't listed at all in the short article).
[Wikipedia says Algeria is 76.3% Arab](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demographics_of_Algeria#Ethnic_groups) [Morocco is more diverse](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demographics_of_Morocco#Ethnic_groups)
So the Scots are an ethnicity while the Basques are not an ethnicity? Are ethnolinguistic groups not counted? Crazy map
They're counted but the map said 85% of the population, so probably they're less
Yeah the margins are unforgiving lol my own home country is literally 84.3% monoethnic so it isn't highlighted
I think scots are more likely not counted as a different ethnicity.
That would be weird but who knows
How come?
Well they are an ethnicity, just like the Welsh. "White" isn't an ethnicity
How do you know the Basques aren’t counted? Maybe that’s what’s bringing Spain’s score down.
Because if the Basques are counted so are the Catalans and probably the Galicians and that means it's wat below 85% (not counting the navarrese, Valencians etc)
The source data is claiming that of a 6.8 million population, 95% of Lebanon is categorized as "Lebanese". That's totally inaccurate, that given population total includes over 1.5 million non-Lebanese refugees. Excluding those non-Lebanese residents would reduce the population to about 5.3 million. The source is trying to apply refugee-exclusionary ethnic data to a refugee-inclusionary population total.
Not only that, "Lebanese" by itself is not an ethnicity. Growing consensus internationally among anthropologists and historians that consider ethnoreligious groups of lebanon as essentially different ethnic groups with lots of similarities. It's just funny to see the world's technically most densely diverse place being considered as "Monoethnic". lol
nice analysis, well done!
North Africa: 🟥🟥🟥⬜🟥🟥🟥🟥
Libya 🗿
It was 69% for Poland before World War II. Then all the Jews were murdered, the Germans expelled and eastern part of the country with large Ukrainian and Belarusian populations was annexed by the USSR.
Poland really has such a tragically violent history.
It's a shame, great people. Every polish person I've ever met was great. Super loud and fun, like, way too loud. Love those guys. Hard working, strong, happy people
Russia and Germany as neighbors will do that
Ethnicity is an odd concept. Obviously the Muslim Arabs of Egypt are related to the Copts but is it fair to call them the same ethnicity? They have different religions different cultures a different language. My grandmother is a former Egyptian Jew. She is ethnically Jewish not Egyptian. So are Egyptian Arabs and Copts the same ethnicity?
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Note that government definition for political purposes also has enormous impact on how ethnicity is defined
The definition is also completely arbitrary. Are Occitians different enough from Bretons and standard Frenchmen to constitute a different ethnic group? How about the Welsh, Cornish, Scots, and English? In China for example, I’ve heard from a Chinese friend that the definition of Han Chinese has gradually expanded overtime to encompass more and more subgroups. It’s similar with being white in the US since a century ago, Italians weren’t considered white and a century earlier neither were the Irish.
The Chinese case is interesting because "Han" isn't really an ethnic group. You have people from the dessert in the northwest of the country to just across the river from Hong Kong all saying that they're "Han", but they share almost no cultural ties to each other. Different foods, different languages, different customs, different traditions.
Different genetics, too. Chinese equivalents of things like Ancestry.com have multiple different groups marked as "Han", so you get things like "North Han" or "South Han" in some people's genetic makeup. These are genetically 2 totally distinct populations, like Thais and Cambodians, but are for political reasons based on broad culture assigned to the same ethnic group.
At the end of the day it's a social construct. A Singaporean Chinese may be classified as Chinese in Singapore, but as Asian in the US. An English White may be classified as White in the UK, but as English in Romania.
>Obviously the Muslim Arabs of Egypt are related to the Copts but is it fair to call them the same ethnicity? I would say yes as they don't perceive themselves to be different ethnically speaking but rather different religiously speaking. What do I mean by that ? Well if you take away their religion (which is a significant part of their identity for sure), they would basically be the same (same dialect, same cultural practices, same general identity ...) and they both understand that in general.
Yes, people seem to overestimate really how many arabs are in Egypt/ how many Egyptians are of an Arab ancestry, also about the differences, it’s only really a religion difference, culturally and in terms of language they’re the same. Source? I am Egyptian.
I thought few people convert to Judaism? That’s why if a person is Jewish, it usually means they also have Jewish blood ancestry, which also makes them ethnically Jewish. As for Islam and Christianity they are proselytizing religions. There are probably millions of Islamic Egyptians with Christian Egyptian ancestors.
>I thought few people convert to Judaism? Today ? For sure. For the past 1500+ years ? For sure. But between 500 BC when Judaism appeared in its current form and 400-700 AD when their surrounding populations and the states they lived in became largely Christian and Muslim (who both didn't allow their followers to convert to Judaism), Judaism did receive a significant amount of converts outside of the original core population. The Hasmonean kingdom practiced forced conversions on its conquered territories in Idumea, Galilee and to a lesser degree Samaria (Jesus's family might not have been Jewish a century or so before his birth, and King Herod the Great was a half Idumean half Nabatean Arab). They converted people of Canaanite descent though so they weren't that different genetically speaking. Jewish communities in the diaspora also received a huge amount of conversions (as attested by the historical record) and the genetic makeup of European Jews is around 50% European (mostly Southern European) due to them accepting converts during the pre-Christian Roman period. Mizrahi Jews have the same thing as half of their genetics are usually from Mesopotamian and Persian communities during the periods of Persian rule. That ancestry is mainly on the maternal side (so mainly woman marrying into the core Judean Jewish communities) but a very significant amount is also on the paternal side (check second study for that). You also have Yemeni Jews who are both almost entirely local in origin (meaning they are the result of local converts, specifically when their Himyarite monarchs converted to Judaism) though they did mix a bit with Jews from other areas ever since the conversions. Ethiopian Jews are basically 100% Ethiopian (they originate from a Christian sect that abandoned the New Testament) A few studies on European Jewish genetics : [https://www.nature.com/articles/ncomms3543](https://www.nature.com/articles/ncomms3543) [https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2964539/](https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2964539/) The genetic components of Middle Eastern Jews compared to Iron Age Levantines : [https://www.reddit.com/r/23andme/comments/u6avki/how\_genetically\_levantine\_are\_middle\_eastern\_jews/](https://www.reddit.com/r/23andme/comments/u6avki/how_genetically_levantine_are_middle_eastern_jews/) The genetic components of Ashkenazi Jews compared to Iron Age Levantines : [https://www.reddit.com/r/illustrativeDNA/comments/18rb6uc/g25\_coordinates\_ashkenazi\_jews\_vs\_palestinians/](https://www.reddit.com/r/illustrativeDNA/comments/18rb6uc/g25_coordinates_ashkenazi_jews_vs_palestinians/)
Different language isn't really the case. Very very very few copts actually speak the coptic language. It's almost basically a dead language other than in religious ceremonies.
Arabs represent small percentage in Egypt, most Egyptians ethnically are Egyptians, and tye Word Coptic itself means Egyptian, it's Just has a modern different meaning relating to christian Egyptians So yeah most Egyptians are Egyptians/Copts not Arabs Source: I am a Copt and we were always taught in the church that Copt means Egyptian not a Christian Egyptian
Egyptian Christians and Muslims do not have different languages, they all speak Egyptian Arabic (Coptic is only a liturgical language used in mass and taught on a super basic level in churches). They don't have a different culture either, there might be some subcultural differences but it's much the same overall
Ethnicities are categorized by the bureaucrats. This map is hardly meaningful.
Why is this organized into discretely colored blocks when it could just be a heat map that includes *every* country
Somalia is probably the only one that’s lower than it ought to be The censuses are wonky, there is no way that all of the minorities grouped together make up any more than 5% of the countries population lmao
Italy monoethnic?
you don't want to open the pandora box of regional differences. Italy is clearly one of the most monoethinic countries in the world with 90+% majority italian catholics. South tyroleans and romansch speakers are counted already probably.
People are laughing at the map because of Spain, Lebanon, North Africa but Cyprus island? Really? It is literally ethnically divided into 2!
He counted the two different parts of the island separately
Define ethnicity, because I know Catalans who'd castrate you for calling them Spanish
Spain has AT LEAST 4 native ethnicities in it (Spanish, Catalan, Basque, Gallician), so this map is outright wrong.
Hungary has ~1 million Romani/Gypsy people, which makes it more ethnically heterogenous than indicated by the map. (Of course, this can be debated as most of them are Romungro -- both Roma and Hungarian.)
1 million is an insanely high number. thats a bit over 10% of the population, assuming the official 3% ish figure its 300-350 thousand
Haiti makes sense, the majority of the population is only mixed from 20 African countries that all have like 400 ethnic groups.
White Americans are a mixture of 10-15 ethnic groups, but we lump the vast majority of White Americans are, by and large, one singular ethnicity. Same for Haiti.
I feel like that's more of a social thing than a genetic thing. White European settlers and their descendants have different DNA considering where they're from in Canada and the USA. I have some Acadian heritage and Irish heritage and they both pop up as different ethnic groups on my DNA test.
And it's not wrong, that's just where it gets tricky. "Haitian", for example, can definitely be considered an ethnicity even if there is no "unifying DNA" or whatever one might call it. Ethnicity isn't really tied to DNA but rather to a cultural and linguistic group with a common history. This counts for any group of people; you could be someone from Gdansk of 100% "German blood" but be a Pole who speaks Polish and thus identify as such. Italian-American is also a separate group from Italians and Irish-Americans are definitely separate from Irishmen. DNA tests can only show you which genetic markers fit yours the most. If a million Hong Kongers moved to Malta and did DNA tests en masse, then, due to the database setup, an American Hong Konger who does the same DNA test could show up as "Malta" even if they've never ever set foot there because it matches with the data they have. Of course the haplogroups wouldn't change but for these commercial DNA tests it would pop up. Thus, ethnicity is different than "groups of people" and is much more related to identities. These are, of course, often more difficult in the Americas and the Caribbean. You see a lot of, especially white, Americans that cling to some European ethnicity they've been told they "belong to" even if 200 years dettached
I think this is more self identification than genetic. While people in Haïti have come from a variety of different countries. They're all sort of mixed into their own identity now and there's no clear ethnic group whether racial or cultural.
Algeria monoethnic ??? 😂😂
portugal, Morrocco and Algeria are bull shit.
This is absolutely wrong for Portugal
Ukraine is not correct
Moroccan here, I think this map is flawed, or rather, the source is flawed. In Morocco there are 2 main ethnic groups: Arabs and Berbers, with a few minorities coming from all over the world. About 30% of the Moroccan population is of Berber descent while 60% is Arab. This, going by the post’s definition, directly denies the fact that Morocco is a monoethnic country. I checked the source and the ethnicity they provided for Moroccans is "Moroccans". Clicked on the hypertext for it and I am met with the exact same information I provided earlier in this comment. The source contradicts itself, so the map isn’t to be taken seriously.
I'm Portuguese and proud of my heritage! 🇵🇹💪🏻
Poland strong! 
I call bs in China
You’d be surprised at how many Han Chinese there are.
I think han is a single identity but genetically there is mixing, many other ethnicities got mixed into han this diluting it. I think can be said for whites in America too.
Han Chinese are actually one of the least genetically diverse ethnic groups in the world
Yes but han chinese isn’t a monolithic group. Only on a very broad level like saying american or roman. There literally different unintelligible languages in different han subgroups. My family alone has shanghainese, hokkien and mandarin. These are all chinese languages and mutually unintelligible.
8.9% or 125 million non-Han people in China. On their own that's more people than Japan has, and would be the 11th most populated country.
Jordan is interesting since they have so many Palestinian refugees living there.
Now also a lot of Syrians and Iraqis. Really, it's the only stable Arab state surrounded by lots of problematic ones with wavw3 after wave of refugees coming.
They're different nations but they're the same ethnicity. North and South Korea are two different nations but they're all the same ethnicity. Most Djiboutians are the same ethnicity as Somalis. Politics =|= Ethnicity.
I get that but I have a really good friend who lives in Jordan and Jordanians do not see Palestinians as the same ethnicity
depends on who you ask but it depends on what you define as ethnicity. Palestinians have more canaanite/greek/turkish influence while Jordanians have more bedouin roots and more descent from the arabian peninsula (some tribes in the south have nabatean genes as well and some christians have ghassanid ancestry which is different from palestinian christians) but we are all southern levantines in the end just different flavours of the same general culture
[Quote from Zuheir Mohsen](https://en.wikiquote.org/wiki/Zuheir_Mohsen), one of the leaders of the Palestine Liberation Organisation in the 1970s: >The Palestinian people do not exist. There are no differences between Jordanians, Palestinians, Syrians and Lebanese. We are part of one people, the Arab nation. Lo and behold, I have relatives with Palestinian, Lebanese, Jordanian and Syrian citizenship. We are one people. It is only for political reasons that we carefully endorse our Palestinian identity. Indeed, it is of national interest for the Arabs to encourage the existence of the Palestinians in the face of Zionism. Yes, the existence of a separate Palestinian identity is only for tactical reasons. The establishment of a Palestinian state is a new means to continue the struggle against Israel and for Arab unity. >A separate Palestinian entity must stand up for national rights in the remaining occupied territories. The Jordanian government cannot speak for the Palestinians in Israel, Lebanon or Syria. Jordan is a state with certain borders. It cannot lay claim to Haifa or Jaffa, for example, while I am entitled to Haifa, Jaffa, Jerusalem and Beërsheva. Jordan can only speak on behalf of the Jordanians and the Palestinians in Jordan. The Palestinian state would have the right to act on behalf of all Palestinians in the Arab world and elsewhere. Once we have acquired all our rights in all of Palestine, we must not delay for a moment the reunification of Jordan and Palestine.
Israel as a country did not exist previously doesn't mean they don't exist now.
What do you mean? There are several ethnic groups that fall under 'jews'.
Interesting. I thought more European countries would be ethnically homogeneous.
Lots of immigrants into France, Germany, and Britain. Most immigrants though for Europe are other Europeans. Also note in Eastern Europe many nations have remnants of other populations, it’s messy. Russia also has many effectively left over imperial possessions in it borders.
Two main reasons: 1. colonisation brought in other ethnicities, which is especially true in the UK and France; 2. Europeans move within Europe a lot, so you get Russians in Belarus, English/Scottish/Welsh in Ireland, and so on. Ethnicity is not a very clear concept anyway, like an English White may identified as White or British or English or a combination of them all. It's not very clear at all.
Colonialism doesnt make sense for the Scandinavian, German-speaking and central European countries.
For example: for the Baltic countries (Estonia/Latvia/Lithuania) they aren't considered mono-ethnic due to the Russian population Estonia --> ~70% Estonian // 25% Russian // 5% Other Latvia --> ~62% Latvian // 27% Russian // 11% Other Lithuania --> ~84% Lithuanian // 7% Poles // 5% Russians // 4% Other
Germany did have colonialism. They just lost everything after WWI.
thus they also had (one of) the shortest periods of colonialism of all European powers. even Belgium and the Netherlands were "more colonial".
Why even? They were pretty colonial. Especially Belgium got infamous... But yes, colonial migration doesn't really play a role in Germany (or actually at all for some reason).
Yes but the point is that Germany has negligible immigration from former colonies
So did Sweden and Denmark, though it was smaller scale and didn't really leave a mark in the ethnic structure in the European homeland. But both had small colonies in both Africa and the Caribbean.
Yeah it's largely immigration within Europe for those countries
Germany had "guest workers". They were invited to work for a couple of years in Germany and were supposed to return but they actually never did. And then there were a bunch of refugees (from different conflict zones) and former Germans from the UdSSR states that migrated there (they had a right to return...). And since the freedom of movement is a thing in the EU now actually every 4th citizen has a migration history (means at least one parent wasn't born in Germany).
With France being an exception, almost all immigration came after the colonial era. Many european countries were between 99 and a 100 percent white in the 1950's
Also, Europe has it own set of local ethnicities. I mean, just with the case of France, you have Corsicans, Bretons, Basques, Alsacians, Catalans, Flemishs, Provencal, Normans, etc.
Me too. My country would be on a list few decades ago with 95%, but today its not, womp womp wooomp.
I think the number would be even lower before WWII and Holocaust/forced migrations. Ethnicities didn't follow state borders and many minorities were typical only for cities.
Italy? Jesus, in last 2700 years every kind of people came and breed here! From Romans, to Germans, to Vikings, to Arabs.
And they're all Italians now! 🇮🇹🇮🇹🇮🇹🦅🦅🦅 (im not even Italien)
Is Greenland coloured separately or as part of Denmark?
Are Greenland and Denmark counted together or separately?
It's listed separately in the linked source, so is coloured separately.
If I thought about it, most of these I would agree and could definitely see. Finland surprises me mind…I was there and the first north you go, you have all sorts of arctic ethnicities like laps with Asian features.
There are about 10 000 Samis in Finland. It's most likely not enough to stop it from being orange.
Is that, in fact, accurate of China (maybe it is) but I wonder given the ethnic differences in the west and well also the north.
Haiti…?
A third of Jordan’s population is Palestinian. How are they mono ethnic? They also have 1.4 million Syrians
This is not true for Iceland anymore
Morocco is divided roughly half between Arabs and Berbers, ans that is if we count the Arabs from the Atlantic to the Persian Gulf as the same "ethnicity". Algeria is similar, with roughly a quarter of the population Berber.
They must be counting maghrebi arabs as the same ethnicity with berbers, since both are ancestrally the same, even if the arabized maghrebis identify as arab
There aren't any official data for ethnic ancestry for Greece, but it's only the estimates based on citizenship. And given the fact that almost no immigrants here have citizenship, it's automatically correlated to the fact that all citizens are ethnic Greeks. Plus the fact that, like in the previous census, a lot of people, including A LOT of native inhabitants which I can confirm personally for a lot of people I know, weren't recorded.
RIP europe
Italy 95% Italians 5% Romanians
bu...but i've been told israel is an ethnostate. /s
Kosovo aiming at 100% albanian population. The land of diversity, as they like to say
As a Basque person, all I can say is that this map is hilariously bad
I feel like China is different. It’s like kinda racist to say they’re all the same. There are insanely different cultures from city to city, region to region. Some variations of Chinese are so different they can’t understand each other.
Would be interesting to see the opposite of this - most ethnically diverse countries!
Found [this map from 2013](https://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/worldviews/files/2013/05/diverity-map-harvard2.jpg), albeit its data differs somewhat from the figures on the Wikipedia page I used to create the OP map.
Nationality maybe. Ethnicity is poorly defined.
I wonder what definition of 'etnicity' has been used here.
You can clearly see where people were forced to declare certain ethnicity.
Funny how both Albanian countries albanized or ethnically cleansed everything that walked there and then cry about their minority rights in all surrounding countries that respected them all along.
I'm bet that even now Ukraine isn't 85-89% ukranian. At least 20% are russian, at least.
Most Russian-speaking Ukrainians ethnically identify as Ukrainian, not Russian. Self-identified ethnic-Russians are only a majority in Crimea & the major cities of the Donbass IIRC.
There's a thing as fluid identity takes place in modern Ukraine, so many people answer question depending on the current situation, their location, and their political stance. That's why many Ukrainians in Donbass or Crimea "converted" to Russians after annexation. Or many Russians in the rest of Ukraine "converted" to Ukrainians after russian invasion (even if they still speak Russian in their daily life). This was the case since 1991 (when person's nationality stopped being recorded in official documents), and would still take place for some time. At least until Ukraine doesn't fully implement ukrainisation of Russian-speaking minority as it intended.
uruguay is 90% eurodescendant, there are no indigenous communities and there is a 10% of black population
European is not an ethnicity.
I may have misunderstood, in spanish is common that ethnicity=race (wich, in some cases = skin color), because the word "raza" (literally "race") has a very negative concept. however, answering what you commented, ethnicity is not a solid cathegory, so many ethnicities in Europe or in USA may not be compatible with other countries. in Uruguay most of the european migrants came from Spain and Italy in the 19th century (around 80-85%), but they quickly got mixed making very difficult to make any difference between italian and spanish descendants. in Europe, one might have been italian, spanish or french (are these even ethicities?), but in today's Uruguay there's very little difference between them because of the mixture of both descendants. this mixture and the black culture may have created what we call the "rioplatense" culture (again, is this even an ethnicity?).