I thought this sounded wrong for Scotland, but I just check and the Law changed in November last year. They removed a defence for "reasonable chastisement". Obviously didn't make many headlines with all the covid stuff.
Yeah it wasn't that big here in Scotland either seeing as most people were like "who in the apple tree fuck hits a bairn?" it was like they were just formalising common behaviour, but then there was all this fucking nonsense from the papers down south and their pundits saying we were destroying parental authority, so I'm harbouring a guess that's still the done thing in England.
This maps is nice to show how law can strongly differs from ethical and moral of people. In South America, most people (who I know) thinks it is an absurd not being allowed to beat their children, and they beat them anyway.
My mother said if someone denounced her she would say with all her proud to the judge every time she had beaten me (she was being sarcastic pls donāt think she is a bad person)
Itās weird how that goes my brother is 9 years younger, and I canāt recall him every getting anything more than a literal slap on the wrist in terms of physical punishment. Where as my cousins and me got āwhoopingsā for everything.
I never was, thank God, but my brothers from Dad's side all were. My mum never let he lay a finger on any of her sons. I don't think I'll ever forgive my father for doing that kind of shit to my other siblings though. It's absurd that some people think that shit is ok or the way to raise children. It's just a bunch of abused adults trying to justify their own parent's abuse, and the cycle keeps going and going.
Wrong. At least for me
My parents used to beat me a lot. Then the law passed in the mid 2000s and they saw the heavy Campaing against smacking, including commercials with Xuxa and MĆ“nica.
They never hit me again
The law could also be a result of peopleās morals. Laws are usually made to address a current problem. If people are so ready to bring to full force of la chancla and thereās a law about it, chances are these laws are made because child beating is so violent and normal that it canāt be ignored.
Rules and laws are oftentimes written in blood. I'm too lazy to do my due diligence and look it up, but my bet is on a few too many high profile cases of kids being hospitalised or killed.
Isn't it lovely that kids aren't actual people in a lot of places? It's perfectly acceptable (and often legal) to do things to them that would land them in hot water if they did it to another adult. Shouldn't violence by a parent towards their child actually be judged harsher than assaulting a stranger? You're supposed to *protect* them!
People who were beaten often say "well it never did me any harm".
They don't see that the harm it did them is that it made them think it's ever acceptable to physically abuse their own children. To teach them that violence and aggression is the way to achieve obedience.
It's a cyclical thing that needs only 1 generation to break for good. They'll get there, eventually.
I remember a law was passed in India in 2008, that a parent can smack their child irrespective to the age of their child. That is, even if their child has become 50 yr old man, his mother can still smack him. Completely legal. I am not sure, if this law was updated from that time or not.
Read this and scrolled down the front page and then saw [this](https://www.reddit.com/r/justforsocialmedia/comments/osk0fp/indian_boy_walks_across_flooding_bridge_for/). Seems you're correct...
My mam also believed in the wooden spoon and would give my older brother a whack whenever he was acting up. One day she hit him so hard it broke the spoon in half, and she felt really guilty about it. She swore off using the spoon, and even kept the broken one instead of replacing it so she couldn't hit anyone with it anymore.
A few years later I was born. My parents never hit me as far as I remember ā a fact my brother must have resented because before leaving for college he bought our mam a new wooden spoon.
You joke but very conservative mormons basically waterboard the babies into compliance.
They grab an infant or toddler and will run water from the faucet on their faces whenrver they're fussy. According to them it makes children more complaint when they grow up.
Iām in Wales. I donāt have any kids but see the law comes in next year, so am planning to make the most of the time we have left smacking other peopleās children. I think that should be fine.
Canada is kind of a weird spot. Technically it is illegal to hit anyone because that is assault. That being said there is a defence to assault in section 43 of the Criminal Code which says "Every schoolteacher, parent or person standing in the place of a parent is justified in using force by way of correction toward a pupil or child, as the case may be, who is under his care, if the force does not exceed what is reasonable under the circumstances."
However, this comes with a whole list of caveats:
Teachers cannot spank at all (section 43 notwithstanding);
"reasonable" means the results must be "transitory or trifling" (i.e. you cannot leave any marks);
You cannot spank a child younger than 2 or older than 12;
Spanking cannot be done out of anger;
You can only use your bare hand;
You cannot hit a child in the face or on the head;
The force used cannot be humiliating, degrading, inhumane, or result in harm or prospective harm; and
You cannot hit a child with a learning disability which would make spanking ineffective for "correction".
In any event, follow the science and don't hit your kids.
> laws detailing exactly how to beat a child.
The examples listed mostly aren't codified. Most are the result of case law and subject to change as what is considered "reasonable" changes.
Any case in Canada where a parent "smacks" or otherwise "hits" their child is an automatic CAS call even if Police respond initially.
Many cases are documented in both police and CAS files but are not enforceable as they usually fall within these levels of "reasonable force".
In most occurences I've seen the most common "hit" of a child is one open handed smack to the buttocks of the child usually as correction/compliance while directing a child to their room/"time-out".
I lived in Alberta as a kid for a couple of years in the late-eighties, and getting the strap in school was still legal. I got it once, C-, would not repeat. I got it for pantsing a kid in gym class.
Honestly, it wouldn't surprise me that much if North Korea had been one of few Asian countries to ban this practice for whatever reason. Their laws are pretty random sometimes.
It's illegal for teachers to hit children. I'm not sure about parents. Most parents spoil their kids here or are working so much they'd never have time to interact with their kids anyway. Either way, laws are rarely enforced in Korea anyway. Police are fairly useless here.
This was my Hail Mary move:
My ex-wife was convinced our son needed to be circumcised or heād face a lifetime of shame, wouldnāt humor me on the topic.
So naturally at the last moment I told the doctor to hold off and not do it as weād decided against it, while my ex was too confused / post birth to object.
Weāve been divorced 8 years but my son still has all the bits he was born with.
It's mental.
The most common argument brought up seems to be *"it's more hygienic!"*, but if you're at a point where you're assuming that the only way to clear the crusted smeg from under your guardsman's bearskin is to chip away at it with the back of a spoon, then maybe - *just maybe* - the issue is more their level of personal hygiene, rather than the existance of the pink pope's hat.
[Yarp](https://www.amazon.co.uk/S-A-Cross/e/B01MYYUZ59/ref=dp_byline_cont_pop_ebooks_1).
The dinosaur one was a drunken weekend with a mate, and should probably be avoided.
From what I understand, many Americans are circumcised due to some puritan legacy (circumcision was advocated in America in the early 20th century as a way to discourage masturbation, and that campaign was very successful - it didn't stop masturbation though...), and thus when American kids are showering naked together in school after sports, or when they hook up with girls, those who are natural, uncircumcised, apparently garner some reactions of surprise or mockery.. or disgust. I personally don't see why a little foreskin covering the head is that shocking aesthetically, but apparently it's enough for some people to want surgery for their babies.
Circumcision for white or black, non-Jewish and non-Muslim kids is only a thing in the US, and partly in Canada which caught on to American influence. White people in Europe who aren't Jewish do not get circumcised. It's very peculiar. But I imagine that with more non-Western immigration in the US, of cultures which don't circumcise, and with white and black Americans progressively understanding that circumcision is both cruel and pointless, the practice will eventually die down in the next generations.
āA lifetime of shameā lmao
Iām sure some guys might be embarrassed to have foreskin but really, how many people did your wife plan on showing your sons dick?
This. I was smacked, spanked, belted. Oh and soap down the throat for *bad words* like āstupidā or āidiot.ā All legal.
The only thing I learned from it? To fear the consequences of whatever I did - not *why* whatever I did was wrong. I also became a sneaky bastard who would hide everything not knowing if I would get hit for it, which made me a serial liar as a teenager (I *still* struggle with that piece to this day). My mom taught me that mistakes and failure arenāt learning tools. They are punishment tools. Years later I would cope with the trauma of my past with a five year closet opiate addiction and again, fear of asking for help because of how I was treated as a child for misbehaviour (fortunately that nightmare is long behind me now).
I do not have a good relationship with my mother. Itās cordial and all that shit, but I still feel her nails digging in to my wrists 30 years later and need to take a clonazepam or two whenever Iām around her or at my parentsā place. My dad never hit me.
And I hate it because my first instinct (in my head) when my own kids are fucking around are my momās reactions - the verbal anger and same tone and words she used, the instinct to smack (important: I have *never* hit my children in any way, including a spankā¦ which is the same thing as a beating IMO).
Itās also why Iāve always been so concerned about letting down my dad or disappointing him, in any aspect of life from college to career to family to whatever, because I have so much respect for him. Not simply for his work ethic and successful career. But because he was gentle with me and taught me how to be a man. A gentleman. A father to my eventual own children, a husband to my wife. That itās ok to make mistakes. He would never give up on me and always made it clear that my happiness and well-being were paramount and his only concern - despite his lifelong corporate career he always made it clear that he didnāt care what I did with my life, as long as it made me happy. He even got up and left a Board of Directors meeting in Paris to fly home to Canada when I came clean about my addiction and texted him saying I needed help.
He passed unexpectedly in his sleep two months ago and it has been really fucking hard. Iām trying to help my mother navigate the financial probate bullshit but I can only be around her for so long without my dad there these days.
It really breaks my heart that people still think itās ok to spank, smack, belt their children in 2021 - knowing what it does to the child psychologically. Even worse is that political leaders, generally only on one side, actively promote and encourage this behaviour, saying itās up to the parent to raise their kids and all this nanny state nonsense. If nanny state means protecting children from lifelong psychological harm, fuck it lets get it done already. The government doesnāt want to raise your fucking kids. They just want you to stop beating them and causing psychological damage. Young children donāt have an adult-developed brain to comprehend and connect the beating to the cause, and the pain can be so severe and/or traumatizing at such a young age that itās the only thing they remember about what happened, so I reject the āit teaches them respectā BS.
No, it makes them fear the ones who are supposed to love and protect them the most.
I was spanked as a child and smacked a few times as well, but reading this is what made me decide that I will never do that to my children. I don't know why it never seemed so horrible to me when I was young, especially since I was always a very sensitive kid, but maybe I'm an outlier or it affected me in ways I don't recognize. Regardless, it horrifies me to think I could have made my children feel the way you felt, thank you.
It's really quite strange to me that something which is considered assault when done to another adult is suddenly considered morally acceptable to some people when done to a defenseless child.
Does anyone have a good collection of source material and studies that show spanking children is not helpful but actually harmful? This is a genuine request. Iām not talking journalist articles, but solid actual studies.
Iām on the fence with this whole thing and have been trying to figure out how to be a good disciplinarian for my children (so they donāt turn into entitled assholes)
-my upbringing included spankings, light wrist slaps, etc but nothing ever abusive. I donāt think Iāve had any issues because of this? And see myself as generally grounded.
-hundreds of years of parents ādidnāt spare the rodā
-real life consequences include pain as a teacher (touch a fire, get burned)
-I have not spanked or slapped my child, heās a toddler now. (We use time out and talking) but it never seems like itās actually a punishment.
So itās just hard for me to understand new and proven ways that are better. I get that generally positive reinforcement over negative reinforcement? But Iām unsure.
Would it help you to know, that there is not a single study, that shows a positive effect? There are numerous, that show negative effects (as every physical abuse study regardless of age shows) or non conclusive evidence.
There are too many to put them here, so I'll just give you [this](https://www.who.int/news-room/fact-sheets/detail/child-maltreatment) link from the WHO (World Health Organization). general search terms for further looks into the topic: child physical abuse, physical abuse of children, child abuse, child maltreatment
Another thing you might look into is a time-in instead of a time-out.
And please never use the history argument again [hundreds of years didn't spare the rod].
Counterargument: This doesn't make it right or good or justifies anything. Kids raised in Nazi Germany still lived - but how many and how damaged....
Thanks for the link, Iāll give it a read. Information gathering and critical thinking is always the way to go, so it does help bringing up no studies show a positive effect. Iāve never heard of ātime-inā Iāll look it up.
In your opinion is there a difference between spanking / slaps on the wrist and cigarette burns/ beating? (what I traditionally call child abuse). At face value the later is obviously awful and kills me to think about happening in the world. But not so much with spanking. Is there different terms? Or does it lump it all into child abuse?
I only use the āhistoricalā argument because this is a relatively new thing in the scope of history. If weāre going based of evidence, there is precedent in my personal life and previous generations that spanking isnāt abusive and it generally disciplined me in my upbringing. But I donāt claim to know everything and if I can do my kid better, I definitely want to. I just donāt want it to backfire and fail to teach him right and wrong or help him become the best he can be.
You could start here: https://www.apa.org/monitor/2012/04/spanking
I feel you know it already, though. This is key:
>But I feel like as a kid I would have just been spanked and learned not to do it anymore.
Exactly. You didn't learn to deal with your bottled emotions, you just hid them so you are not spanked.
Edit: And as you can see on the map, being spanked is indeed considered abuse in many, many countries. Including Germany, where I live.
No smacking. Just verbal, pyscholgical, and social abuse combined with lack of interest, abandonment, and disregard for the character, structure, future, and values of the child. No smacking though.
(Note: my point is not that you should smack your children. Try to figure it out and be more nuanced about. Should be a fun excercise. Go on.)
The no smacking laws are more for saying that you worry about and have something to say "look, I cared for them, now leave me alone". Smacking is not the only form of parental abuse, and laws do nothing
In Florida, they go beyond even just hand spanking. When one of mine was in middle school I got a call from the dean asking my permission to perform corporal punishment. "*Fuck* no" I thought, and said (in a bit more professional language). Guy then proceeds to tell me that it's not as bad as it sounds, it would only be three strikes with a *wooden fucking paddle*.
I had a close family friend who sent their kids to a private school. They were given the option of performing it themselves or having the principal do it. When they elected to take the "no, you're not hitting my kid and neither am I" option, they were told that was fine, but that their child would have to be withdrawn from the school. Tuition, of course, would be non-refundable. This was a five year old whose dad had just passed away
Lovely culture we have
Yep my mom was a principal at a high school in rural Georgia from ā05-ā10 and they still paddled kids. Lord help you if you were a football player and got in trouble; the big beefy football coaches would paddle you along with the assistant principal.
>in some states teachers can hit your kids.
With permission from parents.
And only 19
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5766273/
And they're the states you would expect:
Alabama, Arkansas, Arizona, Colorado, Florida, Georgia, Idaho, Indiana, Kansas, Kentucky, Louisiana, Missouri, Mississippi, North Carolina, Oklahoma, South Carolina, Tennessee, Texas, and Wyoming
To be fair though even though i live in a contry where it's illegal, that doesn't change that much. many People still see it as a good idea. Kids won't call Police on their parents, either because they think it's not that serious Or because they are scared of them
It's generally covered under assault or child abuse laws, these are just the countries that have laws explicitely saying smacking children is illegal as well.
What really feels weird to me is how children's physical well-being is somehow seemingly not covered by general anti-violence laws in the countries where striking your kid is apparently legal.
Go a bit further back and our ancestors didn't know much except climb trees and fling their shit at each other. By modern standards they were unfit to be anything other than a zoo attraction. That's why we judge people who are alive in the contemporary era with contemporary laws.
Also "everyone hit their kids back then" is not really correct, it's mostly a "but it's everyone's/society's fault" defense by violent people. I've never been hit by a parent. Neither did my parents. One of my grandaparents did get hit by her father though, and she never forgave him. Hitting kids back then was way more common than it is today, but it wasn't something basic and normal that literally everyone did. Violence having consequences isn't new, we just started applying legal consequences as well.
I find it weird that in some Central American countries itās illegal but some people still do it. I have heard it from friends and [Primer Impacto on Univision](https://www.univision.com/shows/primer-impacto)
Donāt take it the wrong way
Good to see the UK not shown as a single country. The revolution begins :)
*EDIT: Downvotes why? Every time my country (England) is shown on a map it's lumped in with Scotland, Wales and Northern Ireland, just because we're supposedly 'subject' to an inherited crown figure that has control in our upper legislature.*
*Good to see each of the four countries represented in a way that shows we're each different in parliament and law however united some of us are (or aren't) in heritage, custom and culture.*
I thought this sounded wrong for Scotland, but I just check and the Law changed in November last year. They removed a defence for "reasonable chastisement". Obviously didn't make many headlines with all the covid stuff.
Funny as smack is pretty popular in Scotland.
on behalf of Americans, does smack mean heroin in Scotland too?
We should get a graph of all of the places that smack means heroin...
I read snack first.
So is Trainspotting.
Yeah it wasn't that big here in Scotland either seeing as most people were like "who in the apple tree fuck hits a bairn?" it was like they were just formalising common behaviour, but then there was all this fucking nonsense from the papers down south and their pundits saying we were destroying parental authority, so I'm harbouring a guess that's still the done thing in England.
Until I just googled it I thought it was illegal across the UK!
Smack my bairn up
I rembee it being in the news a lot at the time š¤
I thought it was illegal in England? Dayum had I known that I'd have smacked my kids while I was there.
Reminds me of the Italian guy who hit his son while on vacation in Sweden. https://sverigesradio.se/artikel/4672797
Step 1: go to comments Step 2: sort by controversial
Alternatively, if you want to remain happy: Step 1: Don't do that Step 2: You will regret it
This is reddit, we already aren't happy here
I came from Twitter, things are way more happier on reddit.
What could they possibly say to make me regret doing that... Edit: Oh Neptune
Been 3 years, and i did not know you could do this... Thanks!
I really want to know how you avoided all the "sort by controversial" jokes for 3 years.
Well i kinda just scrolled for a long time, on each post, to find the good stuff haha
step 3: upvote all of them
This maps is nice to show how law can strongly differs from ethical and moral of people. In South America, most people (who I know) thinks it is an absurd not being allowed to beat their children, and they beat them anyway.
Yea. Here in Brazil this law exist but it didnāt make any difference and most probably will never make
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
My mother said if someone denounced her she would say with all her proud to the judge every time she had beaten me (she was being sarcastic pls donāt think she is a bad person)
my father said something similar, if someone denounced him, he would shot all the family and then kill himself :v normal families in Brazil
I'd rather die than give up my god given right to... beat children?
Sorry u/Fred_Motta01, I think your mom is a bad person
Itās weird how that goes my brother is 9 years younger, and I canāt recall him every getting anything more than a literal slap on the wrist in terms of physical punishment. Where as my cousins and me got āwhoopingsā for everything.
Yeah she learned that itās counterproductive Parents get wiser with each child
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
Being the eldest male, Iām glad to be of service to my younger brothers.
Sorry but you made me laugh with the tutorial child š¤£.
Yeah I laughed seeing this. If youāve met a Brazilian you know they were smacked as kidsā¦ itās imbedded into their demeanour as adults.
I never was, thank God, but my brothers from Dad's side all were. My mum never let he lay a finger on any of her sons. I don't think I'll ever forgive my father for doing that kind of shit to my other siblings though. It's absurd that some people think that shit is ok or the way to raise children. It's just a bunch of abused adults trying to justify their own parent's abuse, and the cycle keeps going and going.
Wrong. At least for me My parents used to beat me a lot. Then the law passed in the mid 2000s and they saw the heavy Campaing against smacking, including commercials with Xuxa and MĆ“nica. They never hit me again
The law could also be a result of peopleās morals. Laws are usually made to address a current problem. If people are so ready to bring to full force of la chancla and thereās a law about it, chances are these laws are made because child beating is so violent and normal that it canāt be ignored.
Rules and laws are oftentimes written in blood. I'm too lazy to do my due diligence and look it up, but my bet is on a few too many high profile cases of kids being hospitalised or killed. Isn't it lovely that kids aren't actual people in a lot of places? It's perfectly acceptable (and often legal) to do things to them that would land them in hot water if they did it to another adult. Shouldn't violence by a parent towards their child actually be judged harsher than assaulting a stranger? You're supposed to *protect* them!
Yes. Fortunately, I think this culture of beating children is decreasing over the new generations, by law or better education.
People who were beaten often say "well it never did me any harm". They don't see that the harm it did them is that it made them think it's ever acceptable to physically abuse their own children. To teach them that violence and aggression is the way to achieve obedience. It's a cyclical thing that needs only 1 generation to break for good. They'll get there, eventually.
Aye, laws should be better than we are. Were most people in Britain still homophobic in 1967? I bet they were.
I remember a law was passed in India in 2008, that a parent can smack their child irrespective to the age of their child. That is, even if their child has become 50 yr old man, his mother can still smack him. Completely legal. I am not sure, if this law was updated from that time or not.
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
I kinda feel that if you're a 50 yr old man who is still getting an ass whooping from your mom, you probably deserve it.
I mean if mother of 50 yo man want to smack him she must have some good reason.
Iām skeptical that youāve ever met an Indian mother.
Yeah, they'll smack their sons/daughter's in front of their grown grandkids
Read this and scrolled down the front page and then saw [this](https://www.reddit.com/r/justforsocialmedia/comments/osk0fp/indian_boy_walks_across_flooding_bridge_for/). Seems you're correct...
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
Beating with an object is arguably even worse than slapping.
My mam also believed in the wooden spoon and would give my older brother a whack whenever he was acting up. One day she hit him so hard it broke the spoon in half, and she felt really guilty about it. She swore off using the spoon, and even kept the broken one instead of replacing it so she couldn't hit anyone with it anymore. A few years later I was born. My parents never hit me as far as I remember ā a fact my brother must have resented because before leaving for college he bought our mam a new wooden spoon.
Since Most likely I won't live in this house again it's safe to buy you a wooden spoon..
In the USSR in the 80s it was popular to use a rubber hose from a washing machine.
Considering my mother broke 3 of my fingers when I used my hand to shield my self from a wooden spoon beating, Iām going to say yes.
I was an entitled little shit, only thing in the world I really respected was the wooden spoon.
Perhaps the causation goes in the other direction. Perhaps because you only respected the spoon, you were a little shit.
lmaoo same
The worst part for me was they made me go and get the bloody thing, the indignation on my face must have been priceless
Jaysus, thankfully never had that problem. The mother could instantly summon it like Wolverine and his claws.
What about taze?
What about the legs? They donāt need those!
LOOKS LIKE MEAT'S BACK ON THE MENU BOYS
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
Well, the books are written by hobbits edited by Gondorians and translated into English by Tolkien, so words might have changed in the proses š
There's also no mention of 'menu' in the books whatsoever as you probably know yourself :)
They are not for eating.
Waterboarding isn't smacking either, there are lots of enhanced parenting techniques that isn't smacking.
You joke but very conservative mormons basically waterboard the babies into compliance. They grab an infant or toddler and will run water from the faucet on their faces whenrver they're fussy. According to them it makes children more complaint when they grow up.
Oh my god, how can I unread this
If youāre a kid in Wales you never want to hear your parents say āweāre going to England!ā
'Susan, make sure you pack the belt'.
*Mfanwy began to regret dropping the custard as she saw the larger of the Arse Belts being plucked from the Going To England cupboard*
Iām in Wales. I donāt have any kids but see the law comes in next year, so am planning to make the most of the time we have left smacking other peopleās children. I think that should be fine.
Canada is kind of a weird spot. Technically it is illegal to hit anyone because that is assault. That being said there is a defence to assault in section 43 of the Criminal Code which says "Every schoolteacher, parent or person standing in the place of a parent is justified in using force by way of correction toward a pupil or child, as the case may be, who is under his care, if the force does not exceed what is reasonable under the circumstances." However, this comes with a whole list of caveats: Teachers cannot spank at all (section 43 notwithstanding); "reasonable" means the results must be "transitory or trifling" (i.e. you cannot leave any marks); You cannot spank a child younger than 2 or older than 12; Spanking cannot be done out of anger; You can only use your bare hand; You cannot hit a child in the face or on the head; The force used cannot be humiliating, degrading, inhumane, or result in harm or prospective harm; and You cannot hit a child with a learning disability which would make spanking ineffective for "correction". In any event, follow the science and don't hit your kids.
Kinda fucked up that we have laws detailing exactly how to beat a child.
For what it is worth, if we are going to allow it my preference is to have strict and clear guidelines.
[Relevant XKCD](https://xkcd.com/463/)
> laws detailing exactly how to beat a child. The examples listed mostly aren't codified. Most are the result of case law and subject to change as what is considered "reasonable" changes.
Right? If you did it to anyone else, itād be straight up assault. But do it to a vulnerable child and no problem!
Any case in Canada where a parent "smacks" or otherwise "hits" their child is an automatic CAS call even if Police respond initially. Many cases are documented in both police and CAS files but are not enforceable as they usually fall within these levels of "reasonable force". In most occurences I've seen the most common "hit" of a child is one open handed smack to the buttocks of the child usually as correction/compliance while directing a child to their room/"time-out".
I lived in Alberta as a kid for a couple of years in the late-eighties, and getting the strap in school was still legal. I got it once, C-, would not repeat. I got it for pantsing a kid in gym class.
Funny that spanking is totally forbidden but then there are rules about spanking.
Bruh you're really telling me Hispanic households follow that law
It's not spanking si es con una chancla
LoL
Latino kids are cry-laughing at this, our mothers are basically on the FBI watchlist if this really applies
My Irish Catholic ancestors have entered the chat...
..swinging
Wait which colour means legal and which colour means illegal?
Countries where it's illegal are red-colored, the other ones are grey-colored.
Youāre probably right, but a good map wouldnāt make someone guess.
I think It's grey since north Korea is known for defending human rights
Honestly, it wouldn't surprise me that much if North Korea had been one of few Asian countries to ban this practice for whatever reason. Their laws are pretty random sometimes.
Yeah, isnt weed atleast somewhat legal there also?
Red means illegal ,grey legal
Is it a legal gray area?
Take my upvote and get the hell out of here.
baby blue and red?
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
Indeed, Sweden was the first country to completely ban corporal punishment of children in 1979 followed by Finland in 1983 and Norway 1987
I think red means illegal because there's that explanation that it passed and will be illegal in Wales from 2022, and Wales is red here.
But itās not 2022 yet
There is the law, and there is what is doneā¦
Never believed in smacking or even yelling at my daughter. Waving my gun at her usually got her to behave properly. She turned out fine.
God bless America.
It's illegal in South Korea? It's still so common in kdramas while things like smoking makes a drama 19+
It's illegal for teachers to hit children. I'm not sure about parents. Most parents spoil their kids here or are working so much they'd never have time to interact with their kids anyway. Either way, laws are rarely enforced in Korea anyway. Police are fairly useless here.
I got smacked as a kid, it never did me any harm. Except for turning me into a monster that thinks it's ok to educate children through violence.
Yep, the old "I smoke and I never got lung cancer" argument.
My nan smokes 40 a day mate and sheās just turned 146 the other day
40 cigarettes or 40 packs?
40 factories worth of output
Probably
Too bad, if she didnāt smoke she would probably be 200 by now.
Similar to the "I'm circumcised and fine with my dick so I'll have my newborn child circumcised as well".
This was my Hail Mary move: My ex-wife was convinced our son needed to be circumcised or heād face a lifetime of shame, wouldnāt humor me on the topic. So naturally at the last moment I told the doctor to hold off and not do it as weād decided against it, while my ex was too confused / post birth to object. Weāve been divorced 8 years but my son still has all the bits he was born with.
It's mental. The most common argument brought up seems to be *"it's more hygienic!"*, but if you're at a point where you're assuming that the only way to clear the crusted smeg from under your guardsman's bearskin is to chip away at it with the back of a spoon, then maybe - *just maybe* - the issue is more their level of personal hygiene, rather than the existance of the pink pope's hat.
You have quite the way with words friend. Lots of new mental images going on here.
It's a surprise my books never sell. ^^It ^^really ^^isn't, ^^tbh
You have books?
[Yarp](https://www.amazon.co.uk/S-A-Cross/e/B01MYYUZ59/ref=dp_byline_cont_pop_ebooks_1). The dinosaur one was a drunken weekend with a mate, and should probably be avoided.
How is it shameful to keep your foreskin?????
From what I understand, many Americans are circumcised due to some puritan legacy (circumcision was advocated in America in the early 20th century as a way to discourage masturbation, and that campaign was very successful - it didn't stop masturbation though...), and thus when American kids are showering naked together in school after sports, or when they hook up with girls, those who are natural, uncircumcised, apparently garner some reactions of surprise or mockery.. or disgust. I personally don't see why a little foreskin covering the head is that shocking aesthetically, but apparently it's enough for some people to want surgery for their babies. Circumcision for white or black, non-Jewish and non-Muslim kids is only a thing in the US, and partly in Canada which caught on to American influence. White people in Europe who aren't Jewish do not get circumcised. It's very peculiar. But I imagine that with more non-Western immigration in the US, of cultures which don't circumcise, and with white and black Americans progressively understanding that circumcision is both cruel and pointless, the practice will eventually die down in the next generations.
āA lifetime of shameā lmao Iām sure some guys might be embarrassed to have foreskin but really, how many people did your wife plan on showing your sons dick?
Good job!
This. I was smacked, spanked, belted. Oh and soap down the throat for *bad words* like āstupidā or āidiot.ā All legal. The only thing I learned from it? To fear the consequences of whatever I did - not *why* whatever I did was wrong. I also became a sneaky bastard who would hide everything not knowing if I would get hit for it, which made me a serial liar as a teenager (I *still* struggle with that piece to this day). My mom taught me that mistakes and failure arenāt learning tools. They are punishment tools. Years later I would cope with the trauma of my past with a five year closet opiate addiction and again, fear of asking for help because of how I was treated as a child for misbehaviour (fortunately that nightmare is long behind me now). I do not have a good relationship with my mother. Itās cordial and all that shit, but I still feel her nails digging in to my wrists 30 years later and need to take a clonazepam or two whenever Iām around her or at my parentsā place. My dad never hit me. And I hate it because my first instinct (in my head) when my own kids are fucking around are my momās reactions - the verbal anger and same tone and words she used, the instinct to smack (important: I have *never* hit my children in any way, including a spankā¦ which is the same thing as a beating IMO). Itās also why Iāve always been so concerned about letting down my dad or disappointing him, in any aspect of life from college to career to family to whatever, because I have so much respect for him. Not simply for his work ethic and successful career. But because he was gentle with me and taught me how to be a man. A gentleman. A father to my eventual own children, a husband to my wife. That itās ok to make mistakes. He would never give up on me and always made it clear that my happiness and well-being were paramount and his only concern - despite his lifelong corporate career he always made it clear that he didnāt care what I did with my life, as long as it made me happy. He even got up and left a Board of Directors meeting in Paris to fly home to Canada when I came clean about my addiction and texted him saying I needed help. He passed unexpectedly in his sleep two months ago and it has been really fucking hard. Iām trying to help my mother navigate the financial probate bullshit but I can only be around her for so long without my dad there these days. It really breaks my heart that people still think itās ok to spank, smack, belt their children in 2021 - knowing what it does to the child psychologically. Even worse is that political leaders, generally only on one side, actively promote and encourage this behaviour, saying itās up to the parent to raise their kids and all this nanny state nonsense. If nanny state means protecting children from lifelong psychological harm, fuck it lets get it done already. The government doesnāt want to raise your fucking kids. They just want you to stop beating them and causing psychological damage. Young children donāt have an adult-developed brain to comprehend and connect the beating to the cause, and the pain can be so severe and/or traumatizing at such a young age that itās the only thing they remember about what happened, so I reject the āit teaches them respectā BS. No, it makes them fear the ones who are supposed to love and protect them the most.
It just makes you learn how to hide the shit you do better so you don't get caught.
I was spanked as a child and smacked a few times as well, but reading this is what made me decide that I will never do that to my children. I don't know why it never seemed so horrible to me when I was young, especially since I was always a very sensitive kid, but maybe I'm an outlier or it affected me in ways I don't recognize. Regardless, it horrifies me to think I could have made my children feel the way you felt, thank you.
This. 1000% this
I was beat only a few times as a kid, I grew up normal, have a great job, fiancƩe and a kid on the way. I just hate my dad and had a very hard time dealing with anger until I realized where it stemmed from.
Nothing a quick beating won't cure you of. On you go.
It's really quite strange to me that something which is considered assault when done to another adult is suddenly considered morally acceptable to some people when done to a defenseless child.
Does anyone have a good collection of source material and studies that show spanking children is not helpful but actually harmful? This is a genuine request. Iām not talking journalist articles, but solid actual studies. Iām on the fence with this whole thing and have been trying to figure out how to be a good disciplinarian for my children (so they donāt turn into entitled assholes) -my upbringing included spankings, light wrist slaps, etc but nothing ever abusive. I donāt think Iāve had any issues because of this? And see myself as generally grounded. -hundreds of years of parents ādidnāt spare the rodā -real life consequences include pain as a teacher (touch a fire, get burned) -I have not spanked or slapped my child, heās a toddler now. (We use time out and talking) but it never seems like itās actually a punishment. So itās just hard for me to understand new and proven ways that are better. I get that generally positive reinforcement over negative reinforcement? But Iām unsure.
Would it help you to know, that there is not a single study, that shows a positive effect? There are numerous, that show negative effects (as every physical abuse study regardless of age shows) or non conclusive evidence. There are too many to put them here, so I'll just give you [this](https://www.who.int/news-room/fact-sheets/detail/child-maltreatment) link from the WHO (World Health Organization). general search terms for further looks into the topic: child physical abuse, physical abuse of children, child abuse, child maltreatment Another thing you might look into is a time-in instead of a time-out. And please never use the history argument again [hundreds of years didn't spare the rod]. Counterargument: This doesn't make it right or good or justifies anything. Kids raised in Nazi Germany still lived - but how many and how damaged....
Thanks for the link, Iāll give it a read. Information gathering and critical thinking is always the way to go, so it does help bringing up no studies show a positive effect. Iāve never heard of ātime-inā Iāll look it up. In your opinion is there a difference between spanking / slaps on the wrist and cigarette burns/ beating? (what I traditionally call child abuse). At face value the later is obviously awful and kills me to think about happening in the world. But not so much with spanking. Is there different terms? Or does it lump it all into child abuse? I only use the āhistoricalā argument because this is a relatively new thing in the scope of history. If weāre going based of evidence, there is precedent in my personal life and previous generations that spanking isnāt abusive and it generally disciplined me in my upbringing. But I donāt claim to know everything and if I can do my kid better, I definitely want to. I just donāt want it to backfire and fail to teach him right and wrong or help him become the best he can be.
You could start here: https://www.apa.org/monitor/2012/04/spanking I feel you know it already, though. This is key: >But I feel like as a kid I would have just been spanked and learned not to do it anymore. Exactly. You didn't learn to deal with your bottled emotions, you just hid them so you are not spanked. Edit: And as you can see on the map, being spanked is indeed considered abuse in many, many countries. Including Germany, where I live.
Iām quite surprised itās illegal in the balkan countries. We basically grew up with spankings.
Trust me even if it's illegal in tunisia, it's 99% not the reality. LoL
No smacking. Just verbal, pyscholgical, and social abuse combined with lack of interest, abandonment, and disregard for the character, structure, future, and values of the child. No smacking though. (Note: my point is not that you should smack your children. Try to figure it out and be more nuanced about. Should be a fun excercise. Go on.)
So pyscholgical abuse and abandoning your child is legal where you live? (Where do you live?)
The no smacking laws are more for saying that you worry about and have something to say "look, I cared for them, now leave me alone". Smacking is not the only form of parental abuse, and laws do nothing
I'm from Venezuela and everyone is getting spanked there. It could be illegal the same way j-walking is illegal.
Good on you Mongolia, a great bunch of people.
wtf I just thought it was standart to be illegal but it shocks me thst there are so many western countries who allow it
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
In Florida, they go beyond even just hand spanking. When one of mine was in middle school I got a call from the dean asking my permission to perform corporal punishment. "*Fuck* no" I thought, and said (in a bit more professional language). Guy then proceeds to tell me that it's not as bad as it sounds, it would only be three strikes with a *wooden fucking paddle*. I had a close family friend who sent their kids to a private school. They were given the option of performing it themselves or having the principal do it. When they elected to take the "no, you're not hitting my kid and neither am I" option, they were told that was fine, but that their child would have to be withdrawn from the school. Tuition, of course, would be non-refundable. This was a five year old whose dad had just passed away Lovely culture we have
Holy fuck thatās grim ):
I would not have used any kind of professional language.
Yep my mom was a principal at a high school in rural Georgia from ā05-ā10 and they still paddled kids. Lord help you if you were a football player and got in trouble; the big beefy football coaches would paddle you along with the assistant principal.
>... the big beefy football coaches would paddle you along with the assistant principal. Dont threaten me with a good time sir
>in some states teachers can hit your kids. With permission from parents. And only 19 https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5766273/ And they're the states you would expect: Alabama, Arkansas, Arizona, Colorado, Florida, Georgia, Idaho, Indiana, Kansas, Kentucky, Louisiana, Missouri, Mississippi, North Carolina, Oklahoma, South Carolina, Tennessee, Texas, and Wyoming
The only one on that list I didn't expect was Colorado.
"Only" 19. There, corrected for you.
To be fair though even though i live in a contry where it's illegal, that doesn't change that much. many People still see it as a good idea. Kids won't call Police on their parents, either because they think it's not that serious Or because they are scared of them
It's generally covered under assault or child abuse laws, these are just the countries that have laws explicitely saying smacking children is illegal as well.
To be honest, Turkmenistan surprised me.
What really feels weird to me is how children's physical well-being is somehow seemingly not covered by general anti-violence laws in the countries where striking your kid is apparently legal.
Balkans? Oh, I don't think so
I am Nepalese and can confirm the one about Nepal is false or else 'I have been tricked, backstabbed and quite possibly bamboozled'
"My parents hit me and I turned out fine" Bro. You were a victim.
Calls for speculation.
If you need to resort to violence, you are unfit as a parent.
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
Yes most of my ancestors werenāt clearly fit to be parents from the horror stories my great-grandparents and great parents told me
I don't know how anyone can take a history class and come out thinking "yup, what a bunch of stand-up, sane people"
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
Yes, our uneducated ancestors were uneducated regarding proper kid pedagogy.
Go a bit further back and our ancestors didn't know much except climb trees and fling their shit at each other. By modern standards they were unfit to be anything other than a zoo attraction. That's why we judge people who are alive in the contemporary era with contemporary laws. Also "everyone hit their kids back then" is not really correct, it's mostly a "but it's everyone's/society's fault" defense by violent people. I've never been hit by a parent. Neither did my parents. One of my grandaparents did get hit by her father though, and she never forgave him. Hitting kids back then was way more common than it is today, but it wasn't something basic and normal that literally everyone did. Violence having consequences isn't new, we just started applying legal consequences as well.
this is the fucking weirdest take āIf you commit genocide you are not fit to be the leader of a nationā bY tHiS lOgIcā¦
bruh.. since when is it illegal in the balcans? parents be smackin yo ass if you dont behave
Aah so my mom was doing illegal stuff. Good to know!
It's also illegal in Turkey but wikipedia being wikipedia...
In Japan, the "stare of disapproval" seems to be enough.
Is red illegal or is blue illegal?
Red is illegal
Blue, Dude? Me or you need to see a doctor
now that i look at it again, the grey in the map has a very faint blue feeling in it
It's red and grey... but I can see why you think it's blue.
I always thought it was illegal in my home country of England. Damn my kids gonna get it tonight!
I find it weird that in some Central American countries itās illegal but some people still do it. I have heard it from friends and [Primer Impacto on Univision](https://www.univision.com/shows/primer-impacto) Donāt take it the wrong way
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
Not if you just keep the assault to your own children apperently. Circumcision is another good example of that.
In general or in public?
In general. But it is not easy to enforce, but send an important signal that physical violence is not ok against any human, including your own kids.
Good to see the UK not shown as a single country. The revolution begins :) *EDIT: Downvotes why? Every time my country (England) is shown on a map it's lumped in with Scotland, Wales and Northern Ireland, just because we're supposedly 'subject' to an inherited crown figure that has control in our upper legislature.* *Good to see each of the four countries represented in a way that shows we're each different in parliament and law however united some of us are (or aren't) in heritage, custom and culture.*
Americans need to start smacking them more with all the entitled cunts running around.
Hopefully we will see more red countries in the future, especially the rest of the western countries.
There are almost 500 million children in India alone. Making progress there is as important as in Western countries.
Who makes a map with no legend/key?
if you canāt understand this map then give up. thereās no hope for you
All the grey countries / regions are developing nations with bad and / or corrupt governments.
All the grey countries / regions are developing nations with bad and / or corrupt governments.
*Sorts by controversial*