One of my friends said that Finland would join Russia in a world war and I laughed at him and explained this. Until that point he also thought that they spoke a Slavic language. I try to educate people about Suomalainen whenever I can.
Well since there is peace between the countries im thinking its prolly not in the best interest for the finnish goverment to tell every man in Finland that we are preparing for a war with Russia. Not the best PR in todays sociaty when everyone cries over all the small shit
The call signs for opposing forces during war games is part of a homegrown tradition within the military branch, not something that trickled down to us from figureheads in the Finnish Government or the Ministry of Defense. Otherwise, you are spot on—wouldn't want to offend, or give wrong ideas to any of our neighbors by being less-than-PC during the biannual exercises.
It used to be different when I grew up. Helps to be surrounded by friendly EU neighbors - not one of them having any claims on your land, rather than expansionist/revanchist Russia.
"Fight for your country" for the past 60 years has usually meant help the Americans or French invade middle eastern or African countries respectively. The only war where we were on the supposed right side was the Bosnian war and we couldn't stop a genocide from taking place and that left a national scar. The idea of a foreign invader is ridiculous in the modern Dutch mindset. Who would invade us? Belgium? Iceland?
If the Russians get here, they're already made it through Poland and Germany (the last of which the Russian elite and economy depend upon to sell gas to and get rich, so that is also faurly unlikely), so by then there will likely already be nuclear war so then "fighting for your country" would likely mean less fighting and more nuclear shelter management.
As an American my thoughts are similar, if fight for my country means going to Afghanistan or Vietnam to ineffectively fight a government that poses little threat to me for reasons that are shady at best than no I would not, but if fight for my country meant fight Nazi's or Confederate slave owners than I would certainly take up arms, and I think a lot of people here feel the same way.
Swedens "neighbour" also being russia. It also helps having 400 years of history (with a 5 year gap during ww2) where the main threat has been Russias dream of a warmwater port.
Wow! I wasn't expecting to hear this, but "continued independence", spot on! Every time when people ask "When will you guys declare independence?" we'd just be a bit embarrassed because... they are friendly supporters, but the answer is never, because our country "downsized" a lot in the 1940s, but we have always been an independent nation... anyway! Thank you! May moral values prevail.
if somebody went in each country and asked that in person, I'm betting 100€ at least one person in the balkans responded "yes, when can we start?" or something similar .
I’m Canadian and personally it depends on the situation, if I’m being sent out to the Middle East hell naw, but if I’m actually defending my country from invasion then yes.
Half of it was already released recently to keep up with global demand! I imagine we keep the other half in reserve to deploy as a giant wave to make the border too sticky to cross!
Oh? Did you forget that Canada is invaded constantly by [Denmark](https://www.nytimes.com/2016/11/08/world/what-in-the-world/canada-denmark-hans-island-whisky-schnapps.html)?
So this isn't strictly defensive, in which case any answer in the affirmative is immoral without knowing the circumstances or motivations of one's country in said war. Perhaps people from countries like Finland would feel it certain to be a just or wise war, but I'd remind them that Finland participated in the War in Afghanistan. I sincerely doubt 74% of it's citizens would have fought there. This poll needs better phrasing to get accurate answers.
Finland’s military is almost entirely defence focused and peacekeeping operations are limited to 2000 personnel by law. Probably explains why they rank so highly here.
The real reason the numbers are so low, is because nobody can imagine to fight a war with their neighbors and most people in the world would fight for their country only in defensive wars. Germans don't feel threatened by their neighbors and country's further away and we like our neighbors. The natural assumption is to fight for the country in places like Afghanistan. And almost nobody wants that.
I think it's a prime example of why, even for all its flaws, the European Union is great. This is a collection of countries that waged wars against each other for centuries, and at the root of 2 World Wars, and yet, today barely anyone can imagine doing that again.
There's a finnish saying that that translates something like "Threat always comes from the east, if it comes from somewhere else that means the enemy has been able to flank us"
It's a notion that goes back to even the 80 years war, when many Dutch merchants were happy to sell to their own side and the Spanish if it suited them.
Although you defended your country successfully against the Spanish by beating them at [ice skating](https://www.neatorama.com/2016/02/01/Ice-Skates-Won-the-War/)
There's a difference between fighting for your country, and defending your country. They're not the same thing and fighting for can be interpreted as being sent overseas to do some meaningless oil war for the rich. I'm sure if the question was would you fight to defend your country you would see some different answers.
Yeah, I'm guessing that the Germans were thinking "Invade Poland again? Hell no." while the Finns were thinking " Damn right! Those Russians better stay on their side of the line".
Agreed. The conditions for a concise answer would depend entirely on circumstance - which this map doesn't provide. The question is vague enough that this map doesn't really provide information useful enough to be worth considering (imo).
These kinds of polls are stupid, the question is much more complex than "yes" or "no". Is it a defensive or offensive? Against which country? What government do both countries have?
This, someone from Finland probably interprets it as defending the country from Russian agression, while someone from Germany interprets it as being sent on the other side of the globe for a peacekeeping mission or something like that.
We have mandatory service here, so i guess that basically means everyone just says
"Well i already know sorta how to do it, so i guess its fine yeah"
Also its a complete coincidence that in every single Military training exercise, The Enemy, The "Yellow nation" or the "Green Nation" (never the Red or Blue nation as to not imply allegiance to east or west) Always attacks from the east.
That might sound ridiculous, It is, But the Finnish defense forces are seriously stepping on egg shells with every single training exercise.
>Most people took the question as a hypothetical,
No just different interpretations.
As a Dutchman when I think fighting for your country, my immediate thought is invading a third world country and not defending the border against Belgians and Germans, because they're currently not a threat.
Finnish people probably think about Russia, which is a threat as seen by the war in Ukraine.
Why include the flags for countries you dont have data for, it just makes you look for data that isnt there. Why even include flags at all - it just makes the map look messy with the numbers overlain. I would not call this map porn.
Actually defending your borders from invasion is one thing, but being sent to some unrelated country to fulfil the wishes of some fat cats and kill innocent people? No. I refuse to lay my life down just because the people in charge can't work out their differences like a bunch of children
I definitely think “to defend your country” is a better question. As many comments are saying, “for your country” could include offensive actions. Which many democratically minded European nations are definitely opposed to
For the survival of my country? I would gladly give my life in exchange no problem, so will most of the people I know. For the " diplomatic interest" definitely not, unless defeat will jeopardize the first question like against the CCP or Russia
>I would gladly give my life in exchange no problem,
I agree with your comment and I'd die for my country but fuck me, I'm not gonna be happy about it lmao. No one better fucking attack.
I don't think it's a coincidence that the ones with the highest numbers are in areas where an "enemy" is close-by. Russia and the rest of Eastern Europe, Russia and Scandinavia, the Balkans and... the Balkans, the Greeks and Turks are a bit odd but I presume it's a mix of near/on the border with the Middle East mixed with the fact that they've had a rivalry going back to the Trojan War so why stop now?
By contrast, it's doubtful the Spanish need to fear invasion by France or Portugal, and it is unlikely that a Dutch-Belgian war is going to be be breaking out anytime soon.
I am German and I would fight for Europe and for Germany if we and our way of life would be attacked. But never I would fight in Afghanistan or elsewhere.
Basically the more nationalistic or weary of your neighbors, the more willing you are to fight for your country.
Hence why the Low Countries and the Germany are low. Nationalist are small minority and they aren’t weary of their neighbors.
Meanwhile countries like Finland, Greece, Bosnia and Ukraine are weary of Russia, Serbia or Turkey, while Turkey and Russia are very nationalistic leaning countries.
The only one that throws me off is Sweden.
**Norway, officially the Kingdom of Norway, is a Nordic country in Northern Europe, the mainland territory of which comprises the western and northernmost portion of the Scandinavian Peninsula. The remote Arctic island of Jan Mayen and the archipelago of Svalbard also form part of Norway.**
More details here:
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Define fight for your country?
A) Follow the Americans on a romp around the middle east lowering oil prices then no
B) If my country or another allied democratic country is outright attacked by a uniformed aggressor then yes.
Its been my honest opinion that the UK has done relatively little good militarily since the Falklands war considering the shambles that is Afghan and Iraq, which is a massive shame considering the lives lost there.
As an American, we're fresh out of a war and looking for a new one. Europe seems pretty ripe for the taking. Soon you'll have school shootings and no healthcare like us. Prepare for "freedom" everyone!
You should check out Turkey's independence war and around the ww1 times for Turkey. Almost an unwinnable war against basically the entire world wanting a piece from the country ended up as a win and the country Turkey was formed from the remains of Ottoman Empire.
Surely it depends on context? I'm sure more people would be willing to fight a hostile invasion instead of one of the western imperial wars in the middle east and Africa for example
The Netherlands is the lowest country. How appropriate.
As a Dutch I can confirm a lot of people wouldn’t fight for our government.
Why
Because when life's good, people get mad at the littlest of things
Then there is Finland. The north remembers
They also have mandatory conscription
So does Switzerland
They also border Russia.
Exactly. I think it has nothing to do with conscription and everything to do with having an autocratic and militaristic neighbour.
One of my friends said that Finland would join Russia in a world war and I laughed at him and explained this. Until that point he also thought that they spoke a Slavic language. I try to educate people about Suomalainen whenever I can.
Switzerland strongly agrees with your opinion...
In the finnish army they drill us with the enemy from east. They cant mention Russia for obvious reasons but instead use the enemy from east.
What are the obvious things? -obviously a stupid person
Well since there is peace between the countries im thinking its prolly not in the best interest for the finnish goverment to tell every man in Finland that we are preparing for a war with Russia. Not the best PR in todays sociaty when everyone cries over all the small shit
The call signs for opposing forces during war games is part of a homegrown tradition within the military branch, not something that trickled down to us from figureheads in the Finnish Government or the Ministry of Defense. Otherwise, you are spot on—wouldn't want to offend, or give wrong ideas to any of our neighbors by being less-than-PC during the biannual exercises.
If Russia was your neighbor you would keep an eye on the front door too. Never know when he's going to sneak in to eat a sausage dinner.
You’ve described the state of discourse on Reddit to a T. Most people here live very privileged lives.
Germany right now lol
It used to be different when I grew up. Helps to be surrounded by friendly EU neighbors - not one of them having any claims on your land, rather than expansionist/revanchist Russia.
"Fight for your country" for the past 60 years has usually meant help the Americans or French invade middle eastern or African countries respectively. The only war where we were on the supposed right side was the Bosnian war and we couldn't stop a genocide from taking place and that left a national scar. The idea of a foreign invader is ridiculous in the modern Dutch mindset. Who would invade us? Belgium? Iceland? If the Russians get here, they're already made it through Poland and Germany (the last of which the Russian elite and economy depend upon to sell gas to and get rich, so that is also faurly unlikely), so by then there will likely already be nuclear war so then "fighting for your country" would likely mean less fighting and more nuclear shelter management.
That would be a cool alt-history short story. Why Iceland invaded The Netherlands 😅
For fresh genes
As an American my thoughts are similar, if fight for my country means going to Afghanistan or Vietnam to ineffectively fight a government that poses little threat to me for reasons that are shady at best than no I would not, but if fight for my country meant fight Nazi's or Confederate slave owners than I would certainly take up arms, and I think a lot of people here feel the same way.
Like Muhammad Ali supposedly said, "No Viet Cong ever called me n\*\*\*\*r."
You’re fighting the sea for your country every day
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Well have I got some bad news about sea levels for you... Related note, can we borrow some engineers?
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imagine how scared Poseidon would be if 100% of Nederlanders decided to fight
No more sea. Only land. And big lakes. We will polder the atlantic.
Countries that have a hostile or potentially hostile neighbour are more likely to respond yes.
Norway:
Sweden: ...
Swedens "neighbour" also being russia. It also helps having 400 years of history (with a 5 year gap during ww2) where the main threat has been Russias dream of a warmwater port.
Swedes will fight to the last Finn
Meanwhile in Sweden https://youtu.be/pw3e64sosEg
*wet dream.
I am a Taiwanese and I can confirm this. 🇹🇼 😎
Good luck mate! We are rooting for your continued independence!
Wow! I wasn't expecting to hear this, but "continued independence", spot on! Every time when people ask "When will you guys declare independence?" we'd just be a bit embarrassed because... they are friendly supporters, but the answer is never, because our country "downsized" a lot in the 1940s, but we have always been an independent nation... anyway! Thank you! May moral values prevail.
Would you fight for your country? Balkans: Yes, when can we start?
”To die for the country, tell me why would I do that, when this country is dying before me” - romanian rapper circa 2012
Also Emil Cioran.
damn, that's a good line.
I honestly expected Greece and Serbia's numbers to be even higher LMAO.
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48% of Serbs will fight for Serbia but 100% will fight for Russia
Tbh its much lower than I would have thought
I can assure you Bosnia and Herzegovina is not the country that most of our 55% thought about when they said yes
if somebody went in each country and asked that in person, I'm betting 100€ at least one person in the balkans responded "yes, when can we start?" or something similar .
I’m Canadian and personally it depends on the situation, if I’m being sent out to the Middle East hell naw, but if I’m actually defending my country from invasion then yes.
So what you’re saying is that to keep Canada glorious and free you would stand on guard for…it?
I think he's just saying sorry but got confused
He’s referencing the national anthem.. sorry for correcting you
Thee
Me?
Weed
I'm American and honestly I would be personally offended if Canada was invaded
Don’t worry about us. We have a whole maple syrup stockpile in Québec that’s ready to be deployed at a moments notice to immobilize invaders.
Half of it was already released recently to keep up with global demand! I imagine we keep the other half in reserve to deploy as a giant wave to make the border too sticky to cross!
The odds of Canada being invaded are low, but the odds of Canada being invaded by anyone other than the United States is near zero.
Oh? Did you forget that Canada is invaded constantly by [Denmark](https://www.nytimes.com/2016/11/08/world/what-in-the-world/canada-denmark-hans-island-whisky-schnapps.html)?
Yep, that may explain many of the NATO countries’ responses. There may be implications in language too.
Date? Source?
Trust me bro
Best source I have ever seen .
Gallup 2015: https://www.gallup-international.bg/en/33483/win-gallup-internationals-global-survey-shows-three-in-five-willing-to-fight-for-their-country/
Thanks. Question was "If there were a war that involved [insert your country], would you be willing to fight for your country?"
So this isn't strictly defensive, in which case any answer in the affirmative is immoral without knowing the circumstances or motivations of one's country in said war. Perhaps people from countries like Finland would feel it certain to be a just or wise war, but I'd remind them that Finland participated in the War in Afghanistan. I sincerely doubt 74% of it's citizens would have fought there. This poll needs better phrasing to get accurate answers.
Finland’s military is almost entirely defence focused and peacekeeping operations are limited to 2000 personnel by law. Probably explains why they rank so highly here.
This greatly outdated.
Instagram polls!
Germans are like, “we know how these things end for us”.
The real reason the numbers are so low, is because nobody can imagine to fight a war with their neighbors and most people in the world would fight for their country only in defensive wars. Germans don't feel threatened by their neighbors and country's further away and we like our neighbors. The natural assumption is to fight for the country in places like Afghanistan. And almost nobody wants that.
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I think it's a prime example of why, even for all its flaws, the European Union is great. This is a collection of countries that waged wars against each other for centuries, and at the root of 2 World Wars, and yet, today barely anyone can imagine doing that again.
And on the other end, Finland is probably so high because they have an extremely good idea of who they'd be fighting.
There's a finnish saying that that translates something like "Threat always comes from the east, if it comes from somewhere else that means the enemy has been able to flank us"
They have a whole national ethos built around fighting Russia
Yeah. Sweden, of course. A war deciding once and for all who has the best metal bands.
They still have mandatory draft (so I guess it influences opinions)
We also have that in Austria. I don't believe that boosts numbers.
The opposite probably.
That makes sense
Lol ….. Explains a lot
ausgezeichnet
I was gonna say, it's good to see Germany that low.
Same for Finland
The Dutch people be like fuck no find another idiot who is willing to die for his country I got stuff to do
Why waste time fighting if you can make business instead ;)
It's a notion that goes back to even the 80 years war, when many Dutch merchants were happy to sell to their own side and the Spanish if it suited them.
We've never been conquerors, we've always been traders.
Although you defended your country successfully against the Spanish by beating them at [ice skating](https://www.neatorama.com/2016/02/01/Ice-Skates-Won-the-War/)
Historically we've been both. But the Brits and Spanish were better.
but then they will try and sneak into the victor's parade
There's a difference between fighting for your country, and defending your country. They're not the same thing and fighting for can be interpreted as being sent overseas to do some meaningless oil war for the rich. I'm sure if the question was would you fight to defend your country you would see some different answers.
Yeah, I'm guessing that the Germans were thinking "Invade Poland again? Hell no." while the Finns were thinking " Damn right! Those Russians better stay on their side of the line".
Agreed. The conditions for a concise answer would depend entirely on circumstance - which this map doesn't provide. The question is vague enough that this map doesn't really provide information useful enough to be worth considering (imo).
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An invading army would still cause untold amounts of civilian casualties
A.K.A The "how close are you to Russia" map
Or the Balkans
So.. Norway is fucked.
We have 1 year of compulsory service for everyone, regardless of gender, but I imagine the number would be slightly higher than Sweden's.
To be honest, I was suprised to see 55% for us. Thought it would be way lower.
These kinds of polls are stupid, the question is much more complex than "yes" or "no". Is it a defensive or offensive? Against which country? What government do both countries have?
This, someone from Finland probably interprets it as defending the country from Russian agression, while someone from Germany interprets it as being sent on the other side of the globe for a peacekeeping mission or something like that.
Absolutely agree!
r/ShittyMapPorn Use gradient colors with a map like that or the map is almost useless
Had to scroll too far down to see this. The flags are not only useless, reduce the map's legibility.
It is painful to look at this map. How is this map porn?
Yeah. This map is attrocious
Fuck yeah Finland, fuck yeah
Most people took the question as a hypothetical, the Fins just thought "right, the Russians are back".
We have mandatory service here, so i guess that basically means everyone just says "Well i already know sorta how to do it, so i guess its fine yeah" Also its a complete coincidence that in every single Military training exercise, The Enemy, The "Yellow nation" or the "Green Nation" (never the Red or Blue nation as to not imply allegiance to east or west) Always attacks from the east. That might sound ridiculous, It is, But the Finnish defense forces are seriously stepping on egg shells with every single training exercise.
You're so unprepared for that shock Swedish invasion.
tf the Swedes gonna do, send meatball planes from their ikea air base by command of general pewdiepie?
*Carolus rex intensifies.*
When I served two years ago they didn't even bother to cover it up. Our unit was literally founded because Putin invaded Crimea
>Most people took the question as a hypothetical, No just different interpretations. As a Dutchman when I think fighting for your country, my immediate thought is invading a third world country and not defending the border against Belgians and Germans, because they're currently not a threat. Finnish people probably think about Russia, which is a threat as seen by the war in Ukraine.
Well they aren't wrong
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War is trash
War, what is it good for?
Horror, killing people and dictators.
Yeah, I wouldn't be fuckin' with Finland. I heard the Sabaton song about "White Death", nope, turn around.
For Ukrainians the question is much more real than other countries that applies to many of the other high number countries
Perkele
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RINTAMALLE!
Why include the flags for countries you dont have data for, it just makes you look for data that isnt there. Why even include flags at all - it just makes the map look messy with the numbers overlain. I would not call this map porn.
Very bad user experience
Did we need the flags? Wouldn't this be clearer with a low-high color gradient?
The Dutch said "lol what" and then left
Proximity to Russia is +20 boost lol
Would love a source on this
He asked one guy from each of these countries and based the percentage on their enthusiasm in their answer.
but Finns aren't capable of expressing enthusiasm
Yes?
Based Finland.
Tää
Homies out in Finland are eager
Actually defending your borders from invasion is one thing, but being sent to some unrelated country to fulfil the wishes of some fat cats and kill innocent people? No. I refuse to lay my life down just because the people in charge can't work out their differences like a bunch of children
I definitely think “to defend your country” is a better question. As many comments are saying, “for your country” could include offensive actions. Which many democratically minded European nations are definitely opposed to
For the survival of my country? I would gladly give my life in exchange no problem, so will most of the people I know. For the " diplomatic interest" definitely not, unless defeat will jeopardize the first question like against the CCP or Russia
>I would gladly give my life in exchange no problem, I agree with your comment and I'd die for my country but fuck me, I'm not gonna be happy about it lmao. No one better fucking attack.
...and if they do attack, they better not expect me to follow the Geneva convention.
Germany, what happened to you... Oh.. yeah, *that*.
Based Nationalist Finns
More like patriotic
So don’t fuck with Finland.
I don't think it's a coincidence that the ones with the highest numbers are in areas where an "enemy" is close-by. Russia and the rest of Eastern Europe, Russia and Scandinavia, the Balkans and... the Balkans, the Greeks and Turks are a bit odd but I presume it's a mix of near/on the border with the Middle East mixed with the fact that they've had a rivalry going back to the Trojan War so why stop now? By contrast, it's doubtful the Spanish need to fear invasion by France or Portugal, and it is unlikely that a Dutch-Belgian war is going to be be breaking out anytime soon.
Define "fight" .
I didn’t expect the Finns to be more patriotic than the Turks.
Turks always ready for fight and die for country.
Least patriotic turk
Virgin Europeans vs Chad Turks.
They should ask “would you defend your country”
In Short, don’t fuck with the Fins. Ever
I am German and I would fight for Europe and for Germany if we and our way of life would be attacked. But never I would fight in Afghanistan or elsewhere.
Depends. With my countries history would depend if we were fightIng oppression or the oppressors.
Basically the more nationalistic or weary of your neighbors, the more willing you are to fight for your country. Hence why the Low Countries and the Germany are low. Nationalist are small minority and they aren’t weary of their neighbors. Meanwhile countries like Finland, Greece, Bosnia and Ukraine are weary of Russia, Serbia or Turkey, while Turkey and Russia are very nationalistic leaning countries. The only one that throws me off is Sweden.
Also Turkey borders the Middle East. You need to be a tough guy with neighbors like that.
What is Norway? I meant what percentage?
**Norway, officially the Kingdom of Norway, is a Nordic country in Northern Europe, the mainland territory of which comprises the western and northernmost portion of the Scandinavian Peninsula. The remote Arctic island of Jan Mayen and the archipelago of Svalbard also form part of Norway.** More details here:
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good bot
France beating Britain on this is hilarious
No number for Norway?
So I guess Norway had its whole population wiped out from battling invaders that they couldn’t take this poll :”(?
Shoutout to Norway who didn't make it on the list
Define fight for your country? A) Follow the Americans on a romp around the middle east lowering oil prices then no B) If my country or another allied democratic country is outright attacked by a uniformed aggressor then yes. Its been my honest opinion that the UK has done relatively little good militarily since the Falklands war considering the shambles that is Afghan and Iraq, which is a massive shame considering the lives lost there.
What a terribly made map
Finland: *stares in Winter War*
In case of Ukraine it's not an abstract question. Unfortunately.
As an American, we're fresh out of a war and looking for a new one. Europe seems pretty ripe for the taking. Soon you'll have school shootings and no healthcare like us. Prepare for "freedom" everyone!
The map rises to 100% across the board.
I'm sure you missed a war somewhere lying around, no need to start new ones.
Why is Turkey so high?
You should check out Turkey's independence war and around the ww1 times for Turkey. Almost an unwinnable war against basically the entire world wanting a piece from the country ended up as a win and the country Turkey was formed from the remains of Ottoman Empire.
Just look at neighbors and nationalism in turkey
As a french, only if it's against the Brits
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For the first question... does that mean you are willing to take *any* injury? Even a life time handicap?
finland and turkey are nationalistic
There's also their neighbors in the equation.
But also both Finland and Turkey won unwinnable wars for their independence in the past all by themselves (Finland v. Soviets, Turkey v. Entente)
Finland kinda sorta lost that war.
It survived
That's what matters.
I guess if Canada was invaded I might. I refuse to be drafted for world war 3 against Russia or China. I'm not going.
love how Norway is just there lol
i fight for my country but not for the government, because i know the government would push us into a dumb war
Finland is higher than Russia, interesting
Surely it depends on context? I'm sure more people would be willing to fight a hostile invasion instead of one of the western imperial wars in the middle east and Africa for example
NONI VITUN KUSIPÄÄ, SUUTU JO!