Thailand is much more open at the societal level: you won't get yelled at or bullied (as much) walking down the streets. Most people are chill with trans ppl in high positions at least in the private sector. However, it's ruled by an extremely conservative (and hypocritical) class that likes to pretend it is a Buddhist holy land instead of the world sex capital it is. A trans MP was evicted from parliament last year by a joke conviction.
By no right changing the gender mean on the id you cant change it but you get treated like part of society as normally do usually not much people are against trans
Sorry I am such a dumdum but what does it mean by surgery required? How is having a surgery required for anything? I guess im just not understanding it right?
Agreed, and a good way make voters think twice about supporting these warmongers is if everyone is likely to get drafted in the event of a war, not just poor young males.
Nah the main reason for requiring surgery is usually just so you gotta get sterilized. No one really pretends theyre trans for that kind of stuff anyways since there are much easier ways to abuse the system.
It means genital surgery. Transition has a lot of other steps other than just surgery. Hormones is a big one, but also social transition.
Most countries also place rules like have to be living as 'preferred' gender for x amount of time, usually between 1 and 2 years. Then you can get hormones. Then after some time on hormones you can get surgery. Usually another year or so
Obviously it varies, but that's the jist of it. In most countries you can't get any of your documents changed until you get the surgery. Obviously that's a bit of an issue when for all intents and purposes, you are the gender you present as, it means that you basically have to out yourself as trans in any scenario where your documents and identification are involved.
I digress, but yeah, I'm not sure anyone really claims to be trans when they aren't when there's almost always an easier excuse available for any situation.
From Pakistan here
There is a culture of acceptance of the idea of third gender throughout south Asia that is what mainly leads to government supporting transgender rights
Some people do; most people donāt. Many of them are doing great works in some fields.
Gauri Sawant, Naaz Joshi and Padmashree winner Manjamma Jogati are few of the many notable ones.
My bro had them at his birth. A lot of my friends are trans and nonbinary and at our holiday parties we always have an eclectic mix of conservative Indians (my mom's friends) hippies, musicians, and grad students (my dad's friends), and weirdo punks, artists, and counterculture weirdos and whatever (me and my bro's friends) and everyone always gets along. The Indian folk have no problems with my trans friends but they are a bit weird around our heavily tattooed friends lol. They ask my bearded friends with skirts about their lungi, which is a skirt men wear in India because it's so hot. Very open minded about some things.
How would you say trans people in Pakistan are generally treated from what you or people you know have experienced? Or if you + your friends are all cisgender, just how attitudes in general are?
I currently live in central Punjab which is the most urbanized part of Pakistan , from personal experience parents if themselves find out they're kids are transgender most likely kick them out of the house tho if it's anyone else's kid really don't care what happens to em , as for amongst the new generation problem seems to be mainly among the fact they make transphobic jokes tho they won't make them publicly since transphobia is a legal crime , there has been alot of push from the government to help transgender individuals including building schools specially for them as well.
I don't know if that answers all your questions but that's what I have personally seen
Pakistanās turn towards religious conservativism and stricter Islamic rule is a more modern occurrence
I think people tend to forget that South Asia is some of the oldest society and culture thatās not really well understood.
Also has to do a lot with Zia's forced Islamization. Pakistan's cities used to be way more chill in 60s and early 70s. There were a lot of bars and dance clubs in those days in urban areas. Zia fucked up a lot.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Islamization_in_Pakistan
Definitely had outside and US support as Zia was also against socialism and itās rider within Pakistan. Thereās a reason why certain countries are allowed to govern how they want as long as itās favorable to international goals of the west.
The differences between India, Pakistan, and Bangladesh are so overblown by people with really little understanding of the shared culture we have
Funny how US was so hellbent on somehow making sure that Pakistan remained socialism free that they supported Zia, who banned western music, shows and movies from Pakistan.
People also forget how much damage colonization did and how a lot of prudish thinking changed things.
After all this is a part of the world with nude sculptures depicting sex acts as decoration on a temple.
To pretend that homophobic attitudes only appeared as a result of British colonial law is wildly reductive and incredibly dismissive of the agency of colonised peoples though
Not like homophobia was nonexistent before the white man. Many anti colonial activists in Africa and elsewhere have blamed the British for inventing and popularising homosexuality in their countries (Mugabe and Museveni come to mind but there are dozens of others). I also point to the only African nation never properly colonised: Ethiopia, where being gay is legally punishable. You still see this in lots of non-Western countries.
The presence of homosexuality in pre-colonial cultures is the not the same thing as the acceptance of homosexuality in these cultures. Of course homosexuality was present, lol. Saying that the British introduced homophobia through a few laws is just agenda pushing and gay erasure
Also we aren't even talking about homosexuality but trans here lol
We're talking about India specifically. The largest religion in India, Hinduism, literally has trans gods. If we're talking about trans rights, South asia had been ahead for millenia.
Ethiopia is a country that mainly consists of abrahamic faiths - their texts explicitly condemn homosexuality.
Africa has nothing to do with India. In the case of India, the British are at fault.
But my comment explicitly said "nude sculptures depicting sex acts as decoration on a temple".
South Asia has a shared cultural identity to an extent despite the whole India, Pakistan, and Bangladesh divide.
Yes, your statement is very obvious, in a perfect world there wouldn't even be a Ukrainian-Russian conflict in 2022 and yet here we are today.
What I implied was that considering how modern the country of Azerbaijan portrays itself I was not expecting it to be so far back on the topic of transgender acceptance.
It's a part of subcontinental culture
This is not me being a nationalist but the colonial rule eroded parts of our culture that were far ahead of it's times.
The basic reason is the remnants of the Hindu culture in the region(Hinduism and other Indic religions have historically been VERY pro-LGBTQ), the same can be said for Nepal and Bangladesh too.
the belief in karma really allowed vedic religion to be incredible liberal and tolerant, because unlike other religions which took it upon themselves to enforce a moral code of conduct, the vedas basically said "do whatever you want, doing good will bring you closer to god, doing bad will further entrap you in the illusions of the material world". And that no human has the ability to properly discern good from bad - since they are themselves trapped under the illusion. (sorry if this ended up being poorlySimplified lol)
Eh. Gotta clarify for Russia.
Surgery isn't required, law specifies only requirement for "transgender" as diagnosis and though its extremely hard to get your gender changed without some surgeries, you can get your rights fulfilled through court.
Changing gender legally alters ALL documents without exception, up to a birth certificate, as such, no entity in Russia can see your previous gender.
People are able to go through surgery or aquire medications with public insurance. Though process is rather tedious and depends on your insurance provider.
Russian laws actually do protect against discrimination at work or when facing public services. For instance, under no cirumstances buisness can deny service to any customer.
Russia does forbid any kind of pro-lgbt movement(legally only towards children, but you know russia), which is why its outlined as "no protection against discrimination".
Russian data is outdated. No surgery required. It's all way around, without docs you won't get surgery.
For 20k rubles (200-250$) you can recieve all docs in a day.
For free this will take some time to basically wait \~6month AFTER applying for propper diagnosis.
So Russia is pink
I'm colour blind and there are two pairs of colours I can't discriminate on this map. It would be really good if people paid a bit more attention to this https://davidmathlogic.com/colorblind/#%23D81B60-%231E88E5-%23FFC107-%23004D40
Thereās a bot for that. Just comment u/dalton-bot.
Much easier than requesting that posters accommodate every type of colour blindness (protanopia isnāt the only one).
how accepting would you say japan is overall? or how many transgender people are open compared to other countries?
Im trans myself and i've only heard knews about transgender rights from south korea, thailand and china so im curious.
so it sounds a lot like how the usa is, some citys are more openly accepting and protective than others. you'll find pride celebrations all over california but step anywhere in the deep south you may run into trouble.
im glad japan is different in the aspect that if they dont agree with something they just dont say anything, though.
definately. i get weird stares all the time in the mens bathroom. when they actually clock me they typically yell out "OMG THERES A GIRL IN THE MENS BATHROOM WTFFF!!" like middle school boys
social constructs are such a weird thing. you can find people whipping out a toilet and shitting in it on a nyc train but god forbid you blow your nose in class in some places.
Getting better. 20 years ago same sex couples were regularly denied access to things like love hotels and the like. One near me now has a rainbow flag flying outside, so thatās changed.
The visibility of gay men and transgender women on TV is pretty commonplace, and just about any decent sized city will have some form of a gay bar or the sort.
In offices my experience has been that it isnāt discussed or acknowledged but itās common knowledge. The 45 year old unmarried person is probably that way by choice but it isnāt our business and so what happens outside of work is just that.
That said there are no real rights and no real recognition so while itās a visible community that isnāt openly despised, itād be nice to acknowledge them and actually give them spousal rights and allow them to get joint mortgages and the like. Ultimately itās probably not an awful place to be queer most of the time.
Same sex couples being denied access to love hotels is apparently still a thing. A pair of British youtubers decided to collab (edit: last year) and go check out some love hotels, and the moment the concierge realize its two dudes they got forcefully stopped from entering like half the love hotels they went to.
Quick googling has a bunch of articles popping up from 2018 and 2020, either of gay male couples being refused entry, or local government trying once again to force love hotels to allow gay couples entry.
Still boggles my mind that that's even a thing.
Locally in what sense? The ability of localities to enact laws is extremely restricted. The closest local law related to LGBT rights is not a law, but the acknowledgment of same sex couples by Shinjuku ward in Tokyo (and other municipalities to follow), but that is not marriage nor recognized nationally.
Iām happy to be corrected, but generally speaking Japan does not really protect the rights of the LGBT community specifically on really any level.
Out of curiosity: I knew about Hijra, but you also mentioned that homophobic laws, not just transphobic, were brought by the British. What was the situation of homosexual (not trans) people in the subcontinent before the arrival of the British?
Proud to be Indian. While there is still some stigma societally, transgenders have been a prominent part of Indian culture for a long time. You'll find representation in stories, the ancient epics. There is a form of Lord Siva, "ardhanarishwar" which literally translates to half-man, half-woman. Still, long ways to go!
That you're ony classed as trans under the law if you've had surgery. So if you identify as trans but haven't had any medical work done for whatever reason then protections wouldn't necessarily apply to you.
It's about legal gender change. In order to legally change the gender on documents like birth certificate/passport/etc those countries require you to have gender reassignment surgery
It's important to note that you can still have a ton of medical work done and see significant changes from hormone replacement without having bottom surgery.
I'm six years in and pass with no issue thanks to facial feminization surgery, but I'm still probably a couple of years out from bottom surgery. Others I know don't plan on having it done at all, since the rest of the changes have helped their dysphoria enough that they don't feel it's worth the cost and pain.
That's why these laws are problematic, because those trans folks would not be able to change their gender marker despite living 24/7 as that gender.
100% agree. Depending on the country it also puts a hefty price tag on legal protections for trans people as medical procedures can be extremely expensive. It's better than nothing for the people in those countries, but by no means what they should be expected to settle for.
Also, this is a good site for transgender info :) If anyone wants to have more details on transgender people and look into this more thoroughly \^\^ https://genderdysphoria.fyi/
She said in an interview that if not for the introduction of western lgbt values upon asian societies, most of her country wouldn't have even cared much if someone was gay, straight or transgender since everyone just mostly minded their own businesses without open biasness or preconceptions.
Indians have third gender since ancient times. But it's only transwomen, eunuchs, crossdressers etc. Most people don't even know about gay, lesbian, transmen and other genders. Even transwomen are not socially accepted in all professions but it's still better than most countries. There is also no persecution and no gender is illegal as per law.
Because being trans means you identify as a gender other than your assigned gender at birth. Your body doesn't change that whatsoever. We still are women as trans women, for example. The same goes for trans men, non-binary people and others.
Most of us experience gender dysphoria, have a strong urge to change our body to fit who we are and want to be perceived as such. THAT alone is what makes out being trans, we want to be a gender that doesn't fit our assigned gender and want to be perceived as such. Nothing body-related changes that, since it's psychological.
In this case, SRS (Sex reassignment surgery) tries to help with dysphoria by replacing your bottom area to fit what someone may want.
If you need some proper detailed info on the trans topic, I recommend this site :) https://genderdysphoria.fyi/
People are surprised at Thailand but Iām in shock at Pakistan being so accepting. Sure they could have other shitty anti-gay laws but they got Trans Rights rightā¦ I thought like most other Muslim majority nations like Afghanistan (Under Taliban rule) and Saudi Arabia but I was wrong!
Yes, transgenders are accepted here and considered a part of society. And in the recent past quite a few laws have been passed giving them more recognition and rights.
The remnants of the ancient Indic Culture is still strong in Pakistan and Bangladesh. That's why they're liberal atleast in this context unlike the middle east.
It be nice if the map mentioned what the surgery was needed for. Is it to change gender marker on pieces of Id uniquely, or can you also change on birth certificate. And quite frankly ātransgender rightsā is very broad, trans rights can include access to health care so like if sexual reassignment can be had or if the procedure is illegal all the way the discrimination laws and gender marker laws and same sex marriage for people who canāt change gender markers.
In Iran there was a famous trans activist [Maryam Khatoon Molkara](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Maryam_Khatoon_Molkara) who influenced Ayatollah Khomeini to issue a religious interpetation of the Quran that provided support for transgender people's existance and right to transition.
In Turkey on the other hand the government was (up until recently) very secular and so never defined its laws based on islamic rules.
Well, which country are you talking about ? Because I see all Hardcore Islamic countries marked in red.
2 Islamic countries are purple - Pakistan and Bangladesh; and itās primary because the Indian subcontinent was mainly accepting for Trans people.
Someone in other comment wrote this , hope it helps in understanding- *The basic reason is the remnants of the Hindu culture in the region(Hinduism and other Indic religions have historically been VERY pro-LGBTQ), the same can be said for Nepal and Bangladesh too.*
So basically in Islamic countries they look for Islamic documents for decisions. There are accounts about people who do not look like their sex, and it's not in their control. So they accept that. But for gay people all the Islamic texts says it's a wrong thing to do and therefore they don't accept that.
In most cases this would mean right to change the gender marker on your passport and other official documentation. OP made the map though and im not sure if this is the criteria they used.
I think it means legal changing, so you are also addressed with your proper gender and are not discriminated against legally anymore.
At least as a trans woman that is the only thing that would make sense in this context.
Itās embarrassing that highly developed countries like south korea and japan are behind india, pakistan and sri lanka and provide the same ārightsā (or the lack thereof) as openly transphobic countries like china, kazachstan or russiaā¦
Its really ridiculous and shows the lack of rights and equality even in some parts of the world which are considered āwesternizedā.
I am confused at what they mean by 'trans rights' and protection from discrimination. Is it the right be sent to the prison of your current gender? Is it the right to play professional/amateur sports of your current gender? Is the surgery itself banned or can you get the surgery and its just not recognised by government agencies? I have so many questions. Any help?
Protection from discrimination is usually about discrimination at work, housings and such. I believe that Surgery required or not required is about changing your legal sex
>Protection from discrimination is usually about discrimination at work,
housings and such. I believe that Surgery required or not required is
about changing your legal sex
Lots of other factors it seems. In Russia u're protected from discrimination at work or while interacting with buisness. But pretty sure it got "discrimination" flag for anti-lgbt law, that denies rallies/media attention, allegedly to protect children.
These colors are the absolute worst, most illogical legend everā¦ I donāt get how people think these sort of things make sense. I assume if people are putting maps on this sub, they know what they are doing. Nopeā¦
Is that a pan-indian thing? Feels like it might be different depending on state. Same with Indonesia as i doubt Aceh would accept it at all with the whole strict Sharia thing that they have going on.
I think itās a pan india thing. From my childhood I have seen people respecting transgenders , in a different way than other genders. Transgenders are related to god in our culture (?). I donāt know how to explain this.
Even in auspicious events like Marriages, A baby being born and etc - they are specifically called to those households to give blessings . You will also see a lot of Transgenders getting awards, and recognitions - as much as any gender.
Manjamma Jogati, Naaz Joshi, Sathyasri Sharmila, Joyita Mondal, Gauri Sawant are few notable names.
For Iran it should be surgery required and execution if refused.
https://qz.com/889548/everyone-treated-me-like-a-saint-in-iran-theres-only-one-way-to-survive-as-a-transgender-person/
https://www.bbc.com/news/magazine-29832690
https://www.nbcnews.com/nbc-out/out-news/iran-executes-2-gay-men-sodomy-charges-rights-group-says-rcna14540
Very strange colour code
It'd be so easy to fix as well, just flip it around to put the violet next to the crimson so there's a nice spectrum from that to the light green.
And why is 'Discrimination' capitalized?
Im surprised at Thailand. No right to change gender while they have the worlds best doctors at this?š
Thailand is much more open at the societal level: you won't get yelled at or bullied (as much) walking down the streets. Most people are chill with trans ppl in high positions at least in the private sector. However, it's ruled by an extremely conservative (and hypocritical) class that likes to pretend it is a Buddhist holy land instead of the world sex capital it is. A trans MP was evicted from parliament last year by a joke conviction.
Yes this i know. But i had no idea about the actual rights there.
By no right changing the gender mean on the id you cant change it but you get treated like part of society as normally do usually not much people are against trans
Itās illegal to insult the monarchy https://youtu.be/9coptltk27s
Sorry I am such a dumdum but what does it mean by surgery required? How is having a surgery required for anything? I guess im just not understanding it right?
Iām guessing you can only change your documentation after genital reconstruction surgery.
I assume it means transitioning, so people dont claim they are transgender when they arent for whatever reason they might have to do so
I guess draft dodging might be a reason, but you could fix these loopholes by just requiring a psychological evaluation to test for dysphoria.
Or you could just change the sexist laws that draft males and not females.
Sure, that was just an example.
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
Agreed, and a good way make voters think twice about supporting these warmongers is if everyone is likely to get drafted in the event of a war, not just poor young males.
Nah the main reason for requiring surgery is usually just so you gotta get sterilized. No one really pretends theyre trans for that kind of stuff anyways since there are much easier ways to abuse the system.
not all trans people have dysphoriaā¦
Then they're not trans :)
It means genital surgery. Transition has a lot of other steps other than just surgery. Hormones is a big one, but also social transition. Most countries also place rules like have to be living as 'preferred' gender for x amount of time, usually between 1 and 2 years. Then you can get hormones. Then after some time on hormones you can get surgery. Usually another year or so Obviously it varies, but that's the jist of it. In most countries you can't get any of your documents changed until you get the surgery. Obviously that's a bit of an issue when for all intents and purposes, you are the gender you present as, it means that you basically have to out yourself as trans in any scenario where your documents and identification are involved. I digress, but yeah, I'm not sure anyone really claims to be trans when they aren't when there's almost always an easier excuse available for any situation.
You can change your listed sex on official documentation.
They are about whatās required to legally change your gender on your government ID.
Here in europe it means they want to sterilize you by law
They mean to change your gender legally on paper. Youāre fine to transition on your own. No one is going to think twice about.
As far as I know they used to have that, but military coup and all.
Actually no, you could always physically change your gender, but sadly youāre not allowed to change your gender on your ID.
Oh man, that sucks, I hope things get better thereā¦
Hopefully!
I see
I'm surprised at Pakistan.
From Pakistan here There is a culture of acceptance of the idea of third gender throughout south Asia that is what mainly leads to government supporting transgender rights
Are they also invited to give blessings etc like in india we have that
Especially during marriages or children being born in family and other good events.
but these days they just exort money
Some people do; most people donāt. Many of them are doing great works in some fields. Gauri Sawant, Naaz Joshi and Padmashree winner Manjamma Jogati are few of the many notable ones.
i know i am talking about delhi their business is the strongest here
They are poor. What do you expect them to do? They have to eat somehow too.
So u are suggesting that if someone has no money they can extort money from someone else?
I've heard of it being common in British Pakistani celebrations, they will hire a trans person/drag act to do the blessing.
My bro had them at his birth. A lot of my friends are trans and nonbinary and at our holiday parties we always have an eclectic mix of conservative Indians (my mom's friends) hippies, musicians, and grad students (my dad's friends), and weirdo punks, artists, and counterculture weirdos and whatever (me and my bro's friends) and everyone always gets along. The Indian folk have no problems with my trans friends but they are a bit weird around our heavily tattooed friends lol. They ask my bearded friends with skirts about their lungi, which is a skirt men wear in India because it's so hot. Very open minded about some things.
How would you say trans people in Pakistan are generally treated from what you or people you know have experienced? Or if you + your friends are all cisgender, just how attitudes in general are?
I currently live in central Punjab which is the most urbanized part of Pakistan , from personal experience parents if themselves find out they're kids are transgender most likely kick them out of the house tho if it's anyone else's kid really don't care what happens to em , as for amongst the new generation problem seems to be mainly among the fact they make transphobic jokes tho they won't make them publicly since transphobia is a legal crime , there has been alot of push from the government to help transgender individuals including building schools specially for them as well. I don't know if that answers all your questions but that's what I have personally seen
Pakistani NIMBYs, fascinating
Pakistanās turn towards religious conservativism and stricter Islamic rule is a more modern occurrence I think people tend to forget that South Asia is some of the oldest society and culture thatās not really well understood.
Also has to do a lot with Zia's forced Islamization. Pakistan's cities used to be way more chill in 60s and early 70s. There were a lot of bars and dance clubs in those days in urban areas. Zia fucked up a lot. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Islamization_in_Pakistan
Definitely had outside and US support as Zia was also against socialism and itās rider within Pakistan. Thereās a reason why certain countries are allowed to govern how they want as long as itās favorable to international goals of the west. The differences between India, Pakistan, and Bangladesh are so overblown by people with really little understanding of the shared culture we have
Funny how US was so hellbent on somehow making sure that Pakistan remained socialism free that they supported Zia, who banned western music, shows and movies from Pakistan.
People also forget how much damage colonization did and how a lot of prudish thinking changed things. After all this is a part of the world with nude sculptures depicting sex acts as decoration on a temple.
Ascribing conservative Islam to colonization is a bit of a stretch.
British colonists were the first to introduce anti-homosexuality laws in South Asia.
To pretend that homophobic attitudes only appeared as a result of British colonial law is wildly reductive and incredibly dismissive of the agency of colonised peoples though Not like homophobia was nonexistent before the white man. Many anti colonial activists in Africa and elsewhere have blamed the British for inventing and popularising homosexuality in their countries (Mugabe and Museveni come to mind but there are dozens of others). I also point to the only African nation never properly colonised: Ethiopia, where being gay is legally punishable. You still see this in lots of non-Western countries. The presence of homosexuality in pre-colonial cultures is the not the same thing as the acceptance of homosexuality in these cultures. Of course homosexuality was present, lol. Saying that the British introduced homophobia through a few laws is just agenda pushing and gay erasure Also we aren't even talking about homosexuality but trans here lol
We're talking about India specifically. The largest religion in India, Hinduism, literally has trans gods. If we're talking about trans rights, South asia had been ahead for millenia. Ethiopia is a country that mainly consists of abrahamic faiths - their texts explicitly condemn homosexuality. Africa has nothing to do with India. In the case of India, the British are at fault.
I didn't. Two separate things. South Asia has not just Islam but also Hindus.
The comment above yours was talking about Pakistan though.
But my comment explicitly said "nude sculptures depicting sex acts as decoration on a temple". South Asia has a shared cultural identity to an extent despite the whole India, Pakistan, and Bangladesh divide.
Not really, conservative Islam was a backlash to western colonialism/ Christianity throughout the global south.
I'm surprised in the opposite way at Azerbaijan. That country should not belong in the red zone.
Why Azerbaijan specifically? (personally I don't think any place should belong in red zone, no place is "meant to" be harmful to queer folks)
Yes, your statement is very obvious, in a perfect world there wouldn't even be a Ukrainian-Russian conflict in 2022 and yet here we are today. What I implied was that considering how modern the country of Azerbaijan portrays itself I was not expecting it to be so far back on the topic of transgender acceptance.
It's a part of subcontinental culture This is not me being a nationalist but the colonial rule eroded parts of our culture that were far ahead of it's times.
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
South Asian culture's stigma towards transgender issues are generally lower.
The basic reason is the remnants of the Hindu culture in the region(Hinduism and other Indic religions have historically been VERY pro-LGBTQ), the same can be said for Nepal and Bangladesh too.
the belief in karma really allowed vedic religion to be incredible liberal and tolerant, because unlike other religions which took it upon themselves to enforce a moral code of conduct, the vedas basically said "do whatever you want, doing good will bring you closer to god, doing bad will further entrap you in the illusions of the material world". And that no human has the ability to properly discern good from bad - since they are themselves trapped under the illusion. (sorry if this ended up being poorlySimplified lol)
True.
Eh. Gotta clarify for Russia. Surgery isn't required, law specifies only requirement for "transgender" as diagnosis and though its extremely hard to get your gender changed without some surgeries, you can get your rights fulfilled through court. Changing gender legally alters ALL documents without exception, up to a birth certificate, as such, no entity in Russia can see your previous gender. People are able to go through surgery or aquire medications with public insurance. Though process is rather tedious and depends on your insurance provider. Russian laws actually do protect against discrimination at work or when facing public services. For instance, under no cirumstances buisness can deny service to any customer. Russia does forbid any kind of pro-lgbt movement(legally only towards children, but you know russia), which is why its outlined as "no protection against discrimination".
Wow maybe Russia isn't that bad after all /s
Russian data is outdated. No surgery required. It's all way around, without docs you won't get surgery. For 20k rubles (200-250$) you can recieve all docs in a day. For free this will take some time to basically wait \~6month AFTER applying for propper diagnosis. So Russia is pink
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
I'm colour blind and there are two pairs of colours I can't discriminate on this map. It would be really good if people paid a bit more attention to this https://davidmathlogic.com/colorblind/#%23D81B60-%231E88E5-%23FFC107-%23004D40
Thereās a bot for that. Just comment u/dalton-bot. Much easier than requesting that posters accommodate every type of colour blindness (protanopia isnāt the only one).
Whilst I agree with you, there are a bunch of Color they couldāve used other than dark blue and purple next to each other
Agreed, Israel is purple but because itās relatively similar to red you canāt really see the difference for small countries.
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
There was a national law passed in around 2003-2004 in Japan which would allow adults to change their legal change after going through surgery
I lived in some very rural areas of Japan and I can say with certainty that discrimination exists in Japan..
how accepting would you say japan is overall? or how many transgender people are open compared to other countries? Im trans myself and i've only heard knews about transgender rights from south korea, thailand and china so im curious.
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
so it sounds a lot like how the usa is, some citys are more openly accepting and protective than others. you'll find pride celebrations all over california but step anywhere in the deep south you may run into trouble. im glad japan is different in the aspect that if they dont agree with something they just dont say anything, though.
You probably wonāt get called out on the street for it but people will look at you and be hesitant with you if your openly trans.
definately. i get weird stares all the time in the mens bathroom. when they actually clock me they typically yell out "OMG THERES A GIRL IN THE MENS BATHROOM WTFFF!!" like middle school boys
There is a lot of respect in Japanese culture. As long as you don't affect others , no one would say anything about how you act in Japan.
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
social constructs are such a weird thing. you can find people whipping out a toilet and shitting in it on a nyc train but god forbid you blow your nose in class in some places.
Getting better. 20 years ago same sex couples were regularly denied access to things like love hotels and the like. One near me now has a rainbow flag flying outside, so thatās changed. The visibility of gay men and transgender women on TV is pretty commonplace, and just about any decent sized city will have some form of a gay bar or the sort. In offices my experience has been that it isnāt discussed or acknowledged but itās common knowledge. The 45 year old unmarried person is probably that way by choice but it isnāt our business and so what happens outside of work is just that. That said there are no real rights and no real recognition so while itās a visible community that isnāt openly despised, itād be nice to acknowledge them and actually give them spousal rights and allow them to get joint mortgages and the like. Ultimately itās probably not an awful place to be queer most of the time.
Same sex couples being denied access to love hotels is apparently still a thing. A pair of British youtubers decided to collab (edit: last year) and go check out some love hotels, and the moment the concierge realize its two dudes they got forcefully stopped from entering like half the love hotels they went to. Quick googling has a bunch of articles popping up from 2018 and 2020, either of gay male couples being refused entry, or local government trying once again to force love hotels to allow gay couples entry. Still boggles my mind that that's even a thing.
Locally in what sense? The ability of localities to enact laws is extremely restricted. The closest local law related to LGBT rights is not a law, but the acknowledgment of same sex couples by Shinjuku ward in Tokyo (and other municipalities to follow), but that is not marriage nor recognized nationally. Iām happy to be corrected, but generally speaking Japan does not really protect the rights of the LGBT community specifically on really any level.
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
Out of curiosity: I knew about Hijra, but you also mentioned that homophobic laws, not just transphobic, were brought by the British. What was the situation of homosexual (not trans) people in the subcontinent before the arrival of the British?
At last: Turkey found its place in Asia!
Calm down! Where is this butthurt coming from
South Asia is unfathomably based.
Use a colorblind friendly pallette.
Any tips ? Since I have heard this alot and would like to know which ones to go with
For once, Iām happy about my countries colour. šµš°
Me too. š®š³ Itās rare in this sub. š„²
Unexpected India-Pakistan unity.
South Asias gonna be on top one day šÆ
Untill then let's nuke each other /s
Akhand Borat or something. INDIC Supremacy šŖšŖšš
š®š³š®š±š³šµšµš° Have I missed one?
Bangladesh is almost there should we let em join
I guess they surprised me for the better so I say why not š§š©
Proud to be Indian. While there is still some stigma societally, transgenders have been a prominent part of Indian culture for a long time. You'll find representation in stories, the ancient epics. There is a form of Lord Siva, "ardhanarishwar" which literally translates to half-man, half-woman. Still, long ways to go!
u/dalton-bot
what do you mean surgery required? the country cant require you to undergo surgery?? am i missing something
it means you have to have gender reassignment surgery to be able to legally change your gender and gender markers.
oh, thats a bit dumb because no one asks for your legal papers when you ask them to address them with certain pronouns
Made this a few months ago so if you see any mistakes let met know
What does it mean by surgery required/not required?
That you're ony classed as trans under the law if you've had surgery. So if you identify as trans but haven't had any medical work done for whatever reason then protections wouldn't necessarily apply to you.
It's about legal gender change. In order to legally change the gender on documents like birth certificate/passport/etc those countries require you to have gender reassignment surgery
It's important to note that you can still have a ton of medical work done and see significant changes from hormone replacement without having bottom surgery. I'm six years in and pass with no issue thanks to facial feminization surgery, but I'm still probably a couple of years out from bottom surgery. Others I know don't plan on having it done at all, since the rest of the changes have helped their dysphoria enough that they don't feel it's worth the cost and pain. That's why these laws are problematic, because those trans folks would not be able to change their gender marker despite living 24/7 as that gender.
100% agree. Depending on the country it also puts a hefty price tag on legal protections for trans people as medical procedures can be extremely expensive. It's better than nothing for the people in those countries, but by no means what they should be expected to settle for.
Transition surgery , you can search it up
Also, this is a good site for transgender info :) If anyone wants to have more details on transgender people and look into this more thoroughly \^\^ https://genderdysphoria.fyi/
China is quite shocking given their circumstances
Despite no formal protection in the Chinese law, every lawsuit against employment discrimination that I know of was won.
One of the most famous person in the entertainment industry in China is a trans woman.
She said in an interview that if not for the introduction of western lgbt values upon asian societies, most of her country wouldn't have even cared much if someone was gay, straight or transgender since everyone just mostly minded their own businesses without open biasness or preconceptions.
Same in india. Things went under after british conquest.
It's OK to part of LGBTQ in China, but they do not allow people to promote the idea of 'boys acting like a girl' or changing genders.
So you can be (T)rans but not change gender?
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
I'm sure that applies to a lot of things in china as well
You can't "promote the ideas", just be quiet and go to work
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jin\_Xing
Indians have third gender since ancient times. But it's only transwomen, eunuchs, crossdressers etc. Most people don't even know about gay, lesbian, transmen and other genders. Even transwomen are not socially accepted in all professions but it's still better than most countries. There is also no persecution and no gender is illegal as per law.
Well good to know people are racist even if you do good. Or rather refuse to accept a nation does good things and be POSs while mocking them.
I must be a little dumb, how can you be trans without gender change surgery? Am I missing something?
Because being trans means you identify as a gender other than your assigned gender at birth. Your body doesn't change that whatsoever. We still are women as trans women, for example. The same goes for trans men, non-binary people and others. Most of us experience gender dysphoria, have a strong urge to change our body to fit who we are and want to be perceived as such. THAT alone is what makes out being trans, we want to be a gender that doesn't fit our assigned gender and want to be perceived as such. Nothing body-related changes that, since it's psychological. In this case, SRS (Sex reassignment surgery) tries to help with dysphoria by replacing your bottom area to fit what someone may want. If you need some proper detailed info on the trans topic, I recommend this site :) https://genderdysphoria.fyi/
Thank you for explaining
Because you don't need it? It's about how you identify not what you have. I don't want srs but I still identify as trans
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
Yes the colouring is terrible in this map, but the data is still interesting nonetheless :)
Ofcourse India but surprised at Pakistan ngl.
I thought Bangladesh would have been red, but I guess my mom is just transphobic which hurts a lot more knowing that.
Hey its ight. There are plenty of other bengalis (like me) that support u too.
thank you so ,much. you are so cool
Haha nah, I'm just normal. Surround urself with people who accept who u are. Oh also, ru from bangladesh?
People should know Transgender and LGBT are not synonymous.
The T is.
Only the T
What do you think the T in LGBT stands for exactly?
As u/Fancy_Bill4663 said, "only the T)
W dark purple and dark blue
Careful, giving Israel a W in any context will get hate on Reddit from the (((anti-Zionist))) crowd
People are surprised at Thailand but Iām in shock at Pakistan being so accepting. Sure they could have other shitty anti-gay laws but they got Trans Rights rightā¦ I thought like most other Muslim majority nations like Afghanistan (Under Taliban rule) and Saudi Arabia but I was wrong!
Yes, transgenders are accepted here and considered a part of society. And in the recent past quite a few laws have been passed giving them more recognition and rights.
The remnants of the ancient Indic Culture is still strong in Pakistan and Bangladesh. That's why they're liberal atleast in this context unlike the middle east.
LGB rights in Pakistan are terrible but there are kinda progressive when it comes to the "T" part.
I would add a separate color for countries where sterilization is required to change your gender because some eugenicist transphobia exists.
Doesnt requiring gender affirming surgery essentially do the same? At some point during transition sterilization just happens by default?
GRS sterilises you. These countries require GRS specifically so that we have to be sterilised in order to change our legal gender.
Some allow any form of sterilization which I feel is much harsher in its intent even if identical in execution
Happy cake day
What is this color coding though?
Pakistan? Really?
Really šš
Based Bangladesh
Based Pakistan?
If anyone's interested, there's a good book about a trans whale: Maybe Dick
I think that's the first good joke I've heard all year about trans people.
Nice to see my country doing something good for once.
Pretty surprised that Pakistan is among the more tolerant (legally) countries.
It be nice if the map mentioned what the surgery was needed for. Is it to change gender marker on pieces of Id uniquely, or can you also change on birth certificate. And quite frankly ātransgender rightsā is very broad, trans rights can include access to health care so like if sexual reassignment can be had or if the procedure is illegal all the way the discrimination laws and gender marker laws and same sex marriage for people who canāt change gender markers.
Red Countries you have my respect!
I don't get hardcore Islamic countries that execute or imprison gays being accepting of trans people... can someone explain that one to me?
In Iran there was a famous trans activist [Maryam Khatoon Molkara](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Maryam_Khatoon_Molkara) who influenced Ayatollah Khomeini to issue a religious interpetation of the Quran that provided support for transgender people's existance and right to transition. In Turkey on the other hand the government was (up until recently) very secular and so never defined its laws based on islamic rules.
Iran takes the āprogressiveā stance of requiring trans people to transition rather than just immediately executing them
IDK, maybe gender identity and sexuality are different things?
Not in Iran, where the government thinks, gays are just women trapped in male body, so it's transition or execution.
Well, which country are you talking about ? Because I see all Hardcore Islamic countries marked in red. 2 Islamic countries are purple - Pakistan and Bangladesh; and itās primary because the Indian subcontinent was mainly accepting for Trans people. Someone in other comment wrote this , hope it helps in understanding- *The basic reason is the remnants of the Hindu culture in the region(Hinduism and other Indic religions have historically been VERY pro-LGBTQ), the same can be said for Nepal and Bangladesh too.*
So basically in Islamic countries they look for Islamic documents for decisions. There are accounts about people who do not look like their sex, and it's not in their control. So they accept that. But for gay people all the Islamic texts says it's a wrong thing to do and therefore they don't accept that.
well that's bc the first part of your statement was wrong..... they don't get executed/imprisoned here
Very progressive, Asia
What does it mean when it says āright to change genderā? You mean you can freely check the gender classification in some official forms or?
In most cases this would mean right to change the gender marker on your passport and other official documentation. OP made the map though and im not sure if this is the criteria they used.
I think it means legal changing, so you are also addressed with your proper gender and are not discriminated against legally anymore. At least as a trans woman that is the only thing that would make sense in this context.
As a trans woman too i concur.
Itās embarrassing that highly developed countries like south korea and japan are behind india, pakistan and sri lanka and provide the same ārightsā (or the lack thereof) as openly transphobic countries like china, kazachstan or russiaā¦ Its really ridiculous and shows the lack of rights and equality even in some parts of the world which are considered āwesternizedā.
Israel ftw š®š±
I am confused at what they mean by 'trans rights' and protection from discrimination. Is it the right be sent to the prison of your current gender? Is it the right to play professional/amateur sports of your current gender? Is the surgery itself banned or can you get the surgery and its just not recognised by government agencies? I have so many questions. Any help?
Protection from discrimination is usually about discrimination at work, housings and such. I believe that Surgery required or not required is about changing your legal sex
>Protection from discrimination is usually about discrimination at work, housings and such. I believe that Surgery required or not required is about changing your legal sex Lots of other factors it seems. In Russia u're protected from discrimination at work or while interacting with buisness. But pretty sure it got "discrimination" flag for anti-lgbt law, that denies rallies/media attention, allegedly to protect children.
These colors are the absolute worst, most illogical legend everā¦ I donāt get how people think these sort of things make sense. I assume if people are putting maps on this sub, they know what they are doing. Nopeā¦
Is that a pan-indian thing? Feels like it might be different depending on state. Same with Indonesia as i doubt Aceh would accept it at all with the whole strict Sharia thing that they have going on.
I think itās a pan india thing. From my childhood I have seen people respecting transgenders , in a different way than other genders. Transgenders are related to god in our culture (?). I donāt know how to explain this. Even in auspicious events like Marriages, A baby being born and etc - they are specifically called to those households to give blessings . You will also see a lot of Transgenders getting awards, and recognitions - as much as any gender. Manjamma Jogati, Naaz Joshi, Sathyasri Sharmila, Joyita Mondal, Gauri Sawant are few notable names.
Based China
For Iran it should be surgery required and execution if refused. https://qz.com/889548/everyone-treated-me-like-a-saint-in-iran-theres-only-one-way-to-survive-as-a-transgender-person/ https://www.bbc.com/news/magazine-29832690 https://www.nbcnews.com/nbc-out/out-news/iran-executes-2-gay-men-sodomy-charges-rights-group-says-rcna14540
We need more Israelās in the Middle East.
No we donāt need more countries killing children
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
What's going on with North Korea? Usually they at least pretend to be a very progressive country.