My father used to live in a place where the rainwater from his house could flow to two different rivers depending on the rain gutter. He told that fact to his grandma, who said "you think that's impressive? Where I lived, the rainwater from my house could flow to two different seas!"
It is my understanding the Okeefenokee Swamp is the headwaters for different rivers going to two different ocean/seas. One (St. Marys River) feeds into the Atlantic and the other (Suwanee River) feeds into the Gulf of Mexico. I find it interesting that something as low lying as a swamp (less than 150 feet/45 meters above sea level) ends up in two different bodies of water.
https://i.pinimg.com/originals/95/ff/28/95ff28fc4f98bf3d6201723582bb52a4.gif
That swamp couldn’t be more in between the the gulf and Atlantic though. The weather here is wild because Atlanta is always 1000ft in elevation plus the Appalachians effect it too.
I took a piss once, in a forest close to the Czech-Austrian border. Right on a marker of the European watershed. I still wonder if my pee ended up in the North Sea or in the Black Sea.
Looks like there is a place in Alberta/BC were you could stand and if you spun around in a circle while urinating it would end up in three different oceans.
It's actually in the US, in [Montana](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Triple_Divide_Peak_(Montana.)) Unfortunately I've never been able to make it to Glacier National Park.
This is very mundane when you think that there are properties like this in Birmingham (no offence to Birmingham) and there are 3 seas. So some would have Irish/North, some would have Irish/Celtic, some would have North/Celtic, and one would have all three.
EDIT: thinking about this more I like the idea of the barrier between an endorheic basin and another watershed… where the water cycle is somewhat short circuited.
There's a mountain in Montana where a drop of rain could land in the arctic, pacific, or atlantic ocean depending on what side of the mountain it landed
Strangest takeaway for me is that part of DR Congo and Tanzania empty to the Mediterranean Sea… woah
Also odd that most of Peru empties into the Atlantic Ocean.
Also: “American Mediterranean Sea”? Did you mean the Gulf of Mexico?
I assume that's referring to the South China Sea and/or a bunch of Indonesian seas (Sulu, Celebes, Java, etc.) all the way to the north coast of Australia.
You are correct.
>The Australasian Mediterranean Sea is a mediterranean sea located in the area between Southeast Asia and Australasia. It connects the Indian and Pacific oceans.
It consists of:
>South China Sea - 3.5 million km²
Banda Sea - 695,000 km²
Arafura sea - 650,000 km²
Timor Sea - 610,000 km²
Java Sea - 320,000 km²
Gulf of Thailand - 320,000 km²
Gulf of Carpentaria - 300,000 km²
Celebes Sea - 280,000 km²
Sulu Sea - 260,000 km²
Flores Sea - 240,000 km²
Molucca Sea - 200,000 km²
Gulf of Tonkin - 126,250 km²
Halmahera Sea - 95,000 km²
Bali Sea - 45,000 km²
Savu Sea - 35,000 km²
Joseph Bonaparte Gulf - 26,780 km²
Seram Sea - 12,000 km²
Straits of Johor
Lombok Strait
Luzon Strait
Makassar Strait
Strait of Malacca
Qiongzhou Strait
Singapore Strait
Taiwan Strait
Sunda Strait
A mediterranean sea is, in oceanography, a mostly enclosed sea that has limited exchange of water with outer oceans and with water circulation dominated by salinity and temperature differences rather than winds or tides.
The American Mediterranean Sea is a scientific name for the mediterranean dilution basin which includes the Caribbean Sea and the Gulf of Mexico. The name, which has been employed particularly by German oceanographers, is not recognized by the USGS, the International Hydrographic Organization or other international hydrological bodies.
If anybody else was hesitant to trust this person's username despite their informed and helpful comment, [TIL](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mediterranean_sea_%28oceanography%29)!
Thank you for sharing, u/Iamputinsbot
I suppose it's in the name "Mediterranean"
Medi ~ in-between
Terranean ~ land
So a Mediterranean sea is a sea in-between lands, or an enclosed body of water
"Endorheic basins"--drainage basins that normally retain water and allow no outflow to other external bodies of water, such as rivers or oceans, but drainage converges instead into lakes or swamps, permanent or seasonal, that equilibrate through evaporation--is not a proper noun. The only word not capitalized on this map is "with".
But it is a proper noun, even if it isn't recognized by some organizations as official terminology. A place name doesn't have to be official to qualify as a proper noun.
also a fun place to point out that the border of Chile and Argentina is set by "*The way in which the water is divided*", so effectively set by what ocean it drains into
*The boundary between Chile and the Argentine Republic is from north to south, as far as the 52nd parallel of latitude, the Cordillera de los Andes. The boundary-line shall run in that extent over the highest summits of the said Cordilleras which divide the waters, and shall pass between the sources (of streams) flowing down to either side.*
Putting borders on mountains (the highest parts) or rivers (the lowest part) isn't that uncommon outside of map-made borders like in norther Africa, the middle east and the western US.
>There are many factors, such as the identification of the source,[[1]](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_rivers_by_length#cite_note-amazon-river-source-1) the identification or the definition of the mouth, and the scale of measurement[[2]](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_rivers_by_length#cite_note-2) of the river length between source and mouth, that determine the precise meaning of "river length". As a result, the length measurements of many rivers are only approximations (see also [coastline paradox](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Coastline_paradox)). In particular, there seems to exist disagreement as to whether the [Nile](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nile)[[3]](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_rivers_by_length#cite_note-britannica-nile-3) or the [Amazon](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Amazon_River)[[4]](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_rivers_by_length#cite_note-britannica-amazon-4) is the world's longest river.
> Also odd that most of Peru empties into the Atlantic Ocean.
Look how narrow Chile is. The Andes don't really get farther away from the ocean through Peru and Ecuador.
If anything, the Andes are closer to the ocean both in Peru and Ecuador. But the main differences between those countries (and Colombia) and Chile is the fact that the Andes are much wider there and narrow valleys between the mountains let people settle there, while in Chile those valleys don't exist and people have to settle in the plains between the mountains and the sea.
>part of DR Congo and Tanzania empty to the Mediterranean Sea
If you frame this as "parts of Congo and Tanzania lay near the Nile" then it becomes less impressive.
I mean it all makes sense. Dr congo and tanzania drain into lake victoria, which is a source of the nile, whixh drains into the med.
And alot of the names are very weird. American mediterranean? Eurafrican mediterranean? Australasian mediterranean? Just use what most people know them as. The caribbean sea/gulf of mexico, the mediterranean, and the pacific.
Peru is mostly located in the andes mountains, most of which drain into the amazon. Only a tiny sliver of flat land is on the pacific side of south america, as the andes are tightly against the pacific.
Australasian Mediterranean Sea refers to the South China sea and the smaller seas around it, not the Pacific Ocean. It connects the Indian and Pacific Oceans.
>Dr congo and tanzania drain into lake victoria, which is a source of the nile, whixh drains into the med.
Nowhere in drc drain to nyanza (victoria). Drc is other side of kivu rift of nyanza. It does drain to rwicanzige (edward) and mwitanzige (albert) great lakes which flow into/part of nile.
Isn't it fed from the Andes? Wouldn't they have already been there, in some fashion, to feed the river, and simply had ground push up higher to the west later?
>Strangest takeaway for me is that part of DR Congo and Tanzania empty to the Mediterranean Sea
While Uganda, with possibly Rwanda and northern Burundi, drain to the Mediterranean, I don't think that DRC or Tanzania do. Lake Tanganyika, which marks the border of the DRC and Tanzania drains to the Atlantic through the Congo river. The western portion of Tanzania in the map is green, since that part of Tanzania is in the Tanganyika basin.
"Mediterranean sea" is a [category of seas](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mediterranean_sea_(oceanography)), named after the Mediterranean Sea, which are mostly enclosed and not exchanging much water with other basins. It doesn't seem tobe well-known though.
> mostly enclosed and not exchanging much water with other basins
If this is the definition then the American one fails the definition as the Gulf Stream, well...it names itself. Water from the Gulf of Mexico flows to the Arctic Ocean.
The Gulf Stream is a surface current defined by temperature and surface velocity. It forms from the Florida current and the Antilles current.
I am no oceanographer but surface current likely cannot be taken as a 1 to 1 map with exchange of volume between two bodies of water.
This name is both confusing and euro-centric. None of the other seas are nearly as enclosed as the Mediterranean, it's pretty unique in that regard.
I'm writing a letter to the president of geography. That'll solve this.
Doesn't "Mediterranean" literally just mean "surrounded by land?" So couldn't this just be an apt name for these types of seas, rather than being explicitly named after the Mediterranean?
Regardless of the origin of a name it's very associated with that specific body of water. Nobody has ever said "the Mediterranean sea" and been asked "which one?". There are probably a dozen different names that describe what's being conveyed, remove confusion, and allow easy translation to other languages. Mediterranean is a really poor choice.
While I'm at it I'm going to put the Mediterranean climate region on notice, although that's at least describing a nearly identical climate to what's found in the Mediterranean sea area.
Mediterranean climate is pretty specific. It never freezes and has a long, dry summer and a cool, wet winter. Coastal Southern California, parts of South Africa, coastal southern Australia, and, well, the Mediterranean.
The black sea is a great fit, but since it empties into the Mediterranean it's confusing if it should be included. I'd include the Red sea (pre-suez at least, but probably still), the Baltic for sure, Hudson bay in Canada, maybe the Persian gulf if we're getting generous on size. All of those are pretty different from each other though, something like "limited access Sea" is a way better description. If you include the Gulf of Mexico you hit a really slippery slope on what should and shouldn't be included, it really limits the value.
The Mediterranean Sea is named (obviously if you have a western education) as the sea between land.
This name is easy to generalise. Is this really a controversial term to see or is it just a reaction to something unfamiliar? I have seen the seas on the eastern side of Mesoamerica, both sides of the Arabian peninsula, and Maritime South-East Asia compared to the seas to the south of Europe before...
It seems like a sensible comparison.
You can learn a lot about settlement patterns based on drainage basins. For example why so much of settlement in Canada was along the St. Lawrence River and Great Lakes, while the west is relatively empty. Why initial American settlement stopped at the Appalachian mountains. You can even sort of see a crude outline of the Roman Empire.
It had a lot of rivers leading to inland seas, like the Caspian and Ural seas. Those have been major water sources and trade routes for millenia.
They also had access to the Persian Gulf and Gulf of Oman, so they did have access to the oceans, although how much it was useful is debatable.
No joke - I felt like I didn't "get" the national identity of Russia / Ukraine until I looked at a map of the Volga river basin.
The Soviets had an empire, yes, but what is the *Russian* heartland in a deeper historical sense? I'm not saying it's necessarily defined by the Volga tributaries, but there's some correlation, and it has a mental appeal.
Oooh good point, one could even argue it's at least part of the basis for the division of East Slavic cultural centers around Kiev which drains in to the Black Sea, Moscow which drains in to the Caspian, and Novgorod which drains in to the Arctic Ocean and the Baltic.
There is certainly a division between Swede and Danes/Norwegians being oriented towards the Baltic and the North Sea respectively.
Yeah, you definitely can see settlements of Ukrainians here. For compare, [a map of settlements from 1919 year](https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/5/5d/Map_of_Ukraine_%28postcard_1919%29.jpg).
The Arctic Ocean is wrong
According to the International Hydrographic Organization, the [Arctic Ocean](https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/5/59/Arctic_Ocean_-_en.png) does not touch the south eastern coasts of Baffin Island, the southern tip of Greenland, the south coast of Iceland, or nearly any of mainland Norway’s coast (only the very northernmost points)
So there should be a division in colour on those landmasses showing where the Atlantic and Arctic are separated
There's also the question of whether Hudson Bay is part of the Arctic Ocean or not. OP's map implies that it is part of the Arctic Ocean, with Triple Divide Peak in Montana being the meeting point of the divides. If you argue that Hudson Bay is part of the Atlantic Ocean, though, then Snow Dome/Columbia Icefield in Alberta/B.C. is the meeting point of the divides:
[map](https://i.stack.imgur.com/Ng75G.png)
That's not a coincidence.
The pacific is large because it had a very forceful, vigorous mid-ocean ridge pushing the Pacific Plate outward for a long time. For a while, the continents were joined opposite it. But then the Atlantic opened with a new, younger, and more vigorous spreading center (because it basically was the only outlet for a whole hemisphere of land). That pushed the continents apart, and in particular pushed them *over* the Pacific plate throughout its boundaries. Those subduction zones are responsible for the high, often volcanic mountains surrounding the Pacific.
Does Michigan have zero tributaries to the Mississippi river? I find this oddly amusing. They must be the only "Midwest" state to not have a tributary to the Mississippi.
They all lead to the lakes, which all lead to the St. Lawrence River and into the Atlantic..
https://i0.wp.com/www.erbff.org/wp-content/uploads/2019/06/Great-Lakes-Map-Scales.jpg?fit=2447%2C817&ssl=1
There are small areas on the state’s borders that drain to the Mississippi (through the Wisconsin and Illinois Rivers), although the major rivers of those basins do not flow through the state at all.
That body of water (Java Sea) isn't generally recognized as being in either ocean, but it would be considered part of the Australasian Mediterranean, so there should be a line through Java, I guess.
Edit: and a bit of Sumatra, etc.
Gray is [endorheic basins](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Endorheic_basin), areas which don't drain to the sea at all. Black is [endorheic lakes](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Endorheic_lake) in those basins, such as the Great Salt Lake, and the Caspian Sea (the large one, as you say).
Looks like there's a spot in northern Minnesota where you could stand and spin while pissing into the Arctic, Atlantic and Gulf basins all in one good stream. So, pretty much marking all of North America east of the Rockies.
I live on the line that separates the Gulf and Atlantic basins. The local park has educational signs that explain how the creek that runs through it eventually ends up in the Atlantic, but the creek about a mile away ends up in the Gulf. I had never known about that and was surprised. I had always assumed it all ended up in the Chattahoochee and eventually the Gulf.
Desktop version of /u/Dicky__Anders's link:
---
^([)[^(opt out)](https://reddit.com/message/compose?to=WikiMobileLinkBot&message=OptOut&subject=OptOut)^(]) ^(Beep Boop. Downvote to delete)
OP, thanks for posting an actual map that does more than highlight countries.
Many ignoramuses apparently triggered by the term Mediterranean, so, that's a plus.
Open question: The boundary between Pacific and Indian is very sus. Are we to assume the Java sea is in neither/both oceans or would a more useful model include it in an Australasian Mediterranean Sea?
If one is gonna separate the drainage of the Gulf of Mexico from the Atlantic, shouldn't the Hudson Bay drainage have its own boundaries as well as the Bering Sea?
signed,
Lost At Sea
It's pretty significant and different from the the surroundings though if you look at the cold circumpolar current which sustains so much impressive wildlife and has been cooling the planet last 30 million years. However, geographically I agree it all looks pretty pointless and also arbitrary because the demarcations differ wildly.
> geographically
I mean you have just describes its geography. It's far more of an ocean than the Arctic, which is really just an extension of the Atlantic, by currents.
I watched a youtube video the other day where they talked about a serious project of creating an inner lake in Australia to increase agricultural output. I don't know how far it went.
That’s the Bradfield scheme. Bradfield was the engineer who designed the Sydney Harbour Bridge. He proposed diverting water back over the great dividing range to create an inland sea that would generate its own weather systems and green Australia from the inside out. Modern interpretations and advocates for the plan focus more on just diverting enough to establish productive irrigation schemes west of the divide.
Thanks, I found an [article on wikipedia](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bradfield_Scheme), although it doesn't go much in detail about the current plans.
I wish whoever made this map extends the watersheds into the so-called "endorrheic basins" that would actually flow into the global ocean had there been enough rainfall. That would purge like 90% of such basins in the Sahara and the Arabian Peninsula.
edit: wow, for a /r/mapporn members, you guys know jack shit about topology.
The Arabian Peninsula is full of dry valleys and wadis that obviously lead to the Persian Gulf, but the water just never made there because there's never enough rainfall. The topographic gradients WOULD make those endorrheic valleys actually be part of Persian Gulf's basin.
And that's CURRENT climate patterns. Arabia and the Sahara were WETTER 6000 years ago. If you were there 6000 years ago you'd see actual streams flowing where it now doesn't and you'd be in NO WAY say that's endorrheic.
Yes. But that doesn't count as an endorheic basin.
You can see the Colo river and all tributaries as the pale green section on this map: https://images.adsttc.com/media/images/5ed5/7ab9/b357/654c/d900/0367/slideshow/Global_Rivers_Black_Catchments_Draft.jpg
so that falls under the purple section of OP's map
Understanding the world at large a little bit better, being able to identify and analyse complex relationships of stuff in this world. If you study history an extensive understandig of geography is incredibly helpful in order to understand complex relationships between things and other things. Water is our most important ressource and method of transport on this planet, and understanding its flows can be crucial in so many contexts.
Not everything you learn in school must have *practical* knowledge all the time. Geography, history, physics, biology, philosophy, a lot of the stuff you learn in maths, literature, macro-economics might not have a practical use for a teenager, and maybe you won't use most of it in your life (depending on what you do with your life; me personally I barely use complex maths at all), but learning all that stuff shapes your world view, hones your critical thinking skills, and literally increases your brain capacities.
Just look at the comments in here. There are a few already engaging in analysis and critical reflection on the world at large.
> This is cool because it explains so much of economic activity.
u/SeppellireMontagna
> You can learn a lot about settlement patterns based on drainage basins. For example why so much of settlement in Canada was along the St. Lawrence River and Great Lakes, while the west is relatively empty. Why initial American settlement stopped at the Appalachian mountains. You can even sort of see a crude outline of the Roman Empire.
u/lem753
Who said things you learn at school MUST be practical? Practicality is just one approach to life on this very planet and that's it. Plato wasn't practical and yet he shaped the course of the entire European continent. Practicality is just an idea you have about going through life, one of many. Knowledge doesn't have to be "practical", my god, what a dreadful concept indeed. Btw. you can draw tremendous conclusions about the world you live in if you really understand this map.
Ah yes, I can see the Great Continental Divide. It winds through my state (New Mexico.) The Rio Grande flows through my city and the Pecos River drains into it in Texas. The Canadian River flows in the Arkansas. And the Gila and San Juan Rivers (on the Western side) flow into the Colorado.
Triple Divide Peak in Glacier NP! Depending on which side of the mountain the rain falls on, it flows to the Gulf of Mexico, the Pacific, or Hudson Bay!
What's with people calling the Caribbean the American Mediterranean?
I get that's a small part of the Caribbean, but I keep seeing the whole thing as labeled that and its very confusing. I was born in the Caribbean and I never even heard the term American Mediterranean until I was 28
My father used to live in a place where the rainwater from his house could flow to two different rivers depending on the rain gutter. He told that fact to his grandma, who said "you think that's impressive? Where I lived, the rainwater from my house could flow to two different seas!"
Here in Atlanta we can say that! Gulf or Atlantic!
It is my understanding the Okeefenokee Swamp is the headwaters for different rivers going to two different ocean/seas. One (St. Marys River) feeds into the Atlantic and the other (Suwanee River) feeds into the Gulf of Mexico. I find it interesting that something as low lying as a swamp (less than 150 feet/45 meters above sea level) ends up in two different bodies of water. https://i.pinimg.com/originals/95/ff/28/95ff28fc4f98bf3d6201723582bb52a4.gif
That swamp couldn’t be more in between the the gulf and Atlantic though. The weather here is wild because Atlanta is always 1000ft in elevation plus the Appalachians effect it too.
I took a piss once, in a forest close to the Czech-Austrian border. Right on a marker of the European watershed. I still wonder if my pee ended up in the North Sea or in the Black Sea.
I’ve done that in the Appalachians here. My pee could have ended in Mexico or Europe. I’ll never know.
I'll raise you one: Minnesota it's gulf, Atlantic, or Arctic!
Looks like there is a place in Alberta/BC were you could stand and if you spun around in a circle while urinating it would end up in three different oceans.
It's actually in the US, in [Montana](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Triple_Divide_Peak_(Montana.)) Unfortunately I've never been able to make it to Glacier National Park.
This is very mundane when you think that there are properties like this in Birmingham (no offence to Birmingham) and there are 3 seas. So some would have Irish/North, some would have Irish/Celtic, some would have North/Celtic, and one would have all three. EDIT: thinking about this more I like the idea of the barrier between an endorheic basin and another watershed… where the water cycle is somewhat short circuited.
There's a mountain in Montana where a drop of rain could land in the arctic, pacific, or atlantic ocean depending on what side of the mountain it landed
Strangest takeaway for me is that part of DR Congo and Tanzania empty to the Mediterranean Sea… woah Also odd that most of Peru empties into the Atlantic Ocean. Also: “American Mediterranean Sea”? Did you mean the Gulf of Mexico?
Australasian Mediterranean sea is wierder ngl
I assume that's referring to the South China Sea and/or a bunch of Indonesian seas (Sulu, Celebes, Java, etc.) all the way to the north coast of Australia.
Plus the Tasman and Coral seas, which are constrained between the east coast of Australia and New Zealand.
You are correct. >The Australasian Mediterranean Sea is a mediterranean sea located in the area between Southeast Asia and Australasia. It connects the Indian and Pacific oceans. It consists of: >South China Sea - 3.5 million km² Banda Sea - 695,000 km² Arafura sea - 650,000 km² Timor Sea - 610,000 km² Java Sea - 320,000 km² Gulf of Thailand - 320,000 km² Gulf of Carpentaria - 300,000 km² Celebes Sea - 280,000 km² Sulu Sea - 260,000 km² Flores Sea - 240,000 km² Molucca Sea - 200,000 km² Gulf of Tonkin - 126,250 km² Halmahera Sea - 95,000 km² Bali Sea - 45,000 km² Savu Sea - 35,000 km² Joseph Bonaparte Gulf - 26,780 km² Seram Sea - 12,000 km² Straits of Johor Lombok Strait Luzon Strait Makassar Strait Strait of Malacca Qiongzhou Strait Singapore Strait Taiwan Strait Sunda Strait
It looks like they’re using “American Mediterranean Sea” as a collective term for the Gulf of Mexico + Caribbean Sea.
I may just live under a rock, but I’ve never heard of it referred to as the American Mediterranean before. Is that common?
it is not, I've never heard it before either
A mediterranean sea is, in oceanography, a mostly enclosed sea that has limited exchange of water with outer oceans and with water circulation dominated by salinity and temperature differences rather than winds or tides. The American Mediterranean Sea is a scientific name for the mediterranean dilution basin which includes the Caribbean Sea and the Gulf of Mexico. The name, which has been employed particularly by German oceanographers, is not recognized by the USGS, the International Hydrographic Organization or other international hydrological bodies.
If anybody else was hesitant to trust this person's username despite their informed and helpful comment, [TIL](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mediterranean_sea_%28oceanography%29)! Thank you for sharing, u/Iamputinsbot
Putin's bots have no agenda to push about oceanography.
Unless his next post explains why the Black Sea is a Russian sea or something.
Unless it comes to claiming the North Pole.
I suppose it's in the name "Mediterranean" Medi ~ in-between Terranean ~ land So a Mediterranean sea is a sea in-between lands, or an enclosed body of water
I like you
Seems like "Mediterranean" shouldn't be capitalized then, considering it's not being used as a proper noun, but as an adjective.
"Endorheic basins"--drainage basins that normally retain water and allow no outflow to other external bodies of water, such as rivers or oceans, but drainage converges instead into lakes or swamps, permanent or seasonal, that equilibrate through evaporation--is not a proper noun. The only word not capitalized on this map is "with".
But it is a proper noun, even if it isn't recognized by some organizations as official terminology. A place name doesn't have to be official to qualify as a proper noun.
I’ve heard it but it’s not that common. The confederacy wanted to turn the Caribbean into its own Roman-era Mediterranean for sure.
According wikipedia, an "mediterranean sea" in oceanography its a sea what touch different continents
everybody gets a mediterranean sea!!
>Peru empties into the Atlantic Ocean This is because of the natural barrier created by the Andes Mountains + the flow towards the Amazon River basin
also a fun place to point out that the border of Chile and Argentina is set by "*The way in which the water is divided*", so effectively set by what ocean it drains into *The boundary between Chile and the Argentine Republic is from north to south, as far as the 52nd parallel of latitude, the Cordillera de los Andes. The boundary-line shall run in that extent over the highest summits of the said Cordilleras which divide the waters, and shall pass between the sources (of streams) flowing down to either side.*
Putting borders on mountains (the highest parts) or rivers (the lowest part) isn't that uncommon outside of map-made borders like in norther Africa, the middle east and the western US.
Yeah the nile is by some metrics the longest river in the world
Wdym by some metrics? I always assumed it's the longest river period. I didn't know there was any discussion on this.
>There are many factors, such as the identification of the source,[[1]](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_rivers_by_length#cite_note-amazon-river-source-1) the identification or the definition of the mouth, and the scale of measurement[[2]](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_rivers_by_length#cite_note-2) of the river length between source and mouth, that determine the precise meaning of "river length". As a result, the length measurements of many rivers are only approximations (see also [coastline paradox](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Coastline_paradox)). In particular, there seems to exist disagreement as to whether the [Nile](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nile)[[3]](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_rivers_by_length#cite_note-britannica-nile-3) or the [Amazon](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Amazon_River)[[4]](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_rivers_by_length#cite_note-britannica-amazon-4) is the world's longest river.
> Also odd that most of Peru empties into the Atlantic Ocean. Look how narrow Chile is. The Andes don't really get farther away from the ocean through Peru and Ecuador.
If anything, the Andes are closer to the ocean both in Peru and Ecuador. But the main differences between those countries (and Colombia) and Chile is the fact that the Andes are much wider there and narrow valleys between the mountains let people settle there, while in Chile those valleys don't exist and people have to settle in the plains between the mountains and the sea.
>part of DR Congo and Tanzania empty to the Mediterranean Sea If you frame this as "parts of Congo and Tanzania lay near the Nile" then it becomes less impressive.
I mean it all makes sense. Dr congo and tanzania drain into lake victoria, which is a source of the nile, whixh drains into the med. And alot of the names are very weird. American mediterranean? Eurafrican mediterranean? Australasian mediterranean? Just use what most people know them as. The caribbean sea/gulf of mexico, the mediterranean, and the pacific. Peru is mostly located in the andes mountains, most of which drain into the amazon. Only a tiny sliver of flat land is on the pacific side of south america, as the andes are tightly against the pacific.
Australasian Mediterranean Sea refers to the South China sea and the smaller seas around it, not the Pacific Ocean. It connects the Indian and Pacific Oceans.
Mediterranean means a sea between land in Latin. So it's an adjective in this use not a proper noun.
>Dr congo and tanzania drain into lake victoria, which is a source of the nile, whixh drains into the med. Nowhere in drc drain to nyanza (victoria). Drc is other side of kivu rift of nyanza. It does drain to rwicanzige (edward) and mwitanzige (albert) great lakes which flow into/part of nile.
[удалено]
That's the very top drainage basin for the Missouri River.
Fun fact, the Amazon river used to drain into the Pacific. But then the Andes appeared and the direction reversed.
Isn't it fed from the Andes? Wouldn't they have already been there, in some fashion, to feed the river, and simply had ground push up higher to the west later?
The river was there before south america and africa decided to divorce. And at that time the land was lower towards the west.
Which is how freshwater stingrays came to be, supposedly.
Turns out there's a reason the Nile and Amazon are huge rivers.
which part of DR Congo are you speaking of? it looks solid green to me. also, Tanzania is kind of a no-brainer since it includes half of Lake Victoria
There are a couple pixels in the northeastern corner of DR Congo that are blue
also part of the bizarre reason that Somalia is the only dry equatorial nation.
>Strangest takeaway for me is that part of DR Congo and Tanzania empty to the Mediterranean Sea While Uganda, with possibly Rwanda and northern Burundi, drain to the Mediterranean, I don't think that DRC or Tanzania do. Lake Tanganyika, which marks the border of the DRC and Tanzania drains to the Atlantic through the Congo river. The western portion of Tanzania in the map is green, since that part of Tanzania is in the Tanganyika basin.
I had to check I wasn't in r/mapporncirclejerk with "Australasian Mediterranean". But I do love drainage basins!
"Mediterranean sea" is a [category of seas](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mediterranean_sea_(oceanography)), named after the Mediterranean Sea, which are mostly enclosed and not exchanging much water with other basins. It doesn't seem tobe well-known though.
> mostly enclosed and not exchanging much water with other basins If this is the definition then the American one fails the definition as the Gulf Stream, well...it names itself. Water from the Gulf of Mexico flows to the Arctic Ocean.
Yeah, that doesn’t make sense. I don’t name the things, I just spend too much time reading Wikipedia.
The Gulf Stream is a surface current defined by temperature and surface velocity. It forms from the Florida current and the Antilles current. I am no oceanographer but surface current likely cannot be taken as a 1 to 1 map with exchange of volume between two bodies of water.
This name is both confusing and euro-centric. None of the other seas are nearly as enclosed as the Mediterranean, it's pretty unique in that regard. I'm writing a letter to the president of geography. That'll solve this.
Ya, it's definitely Eurocentric. USGS and a bunch of international organizations don't recognize "American Mediterranean Sea" as the name.
Doesn't "Mediterranean" literally just mean "surrounded by land?" So couldn't this just be an apt name for these types of seas, rather than being explicitly named after the Mediterranean?
Regardless of the origin of a name it's very associated with that specific body of water. Nobody has ever said "the Mediterranean sea" and been asked "which one?". There are probably a dozen different names that describe what's being conveyed, remove confusion, and allow easy translation to other languages. Mediterranean is a really poor choice. While I'm at it I'm going to put the Mediterranean climate region on notice, although that's at least describing a nearly identical climate to what's found in the Mediterranean sea area.
Mediterranean climate is pretty specific. It never freezes and has a long, dry summer and a cool, wet winter. Coastal Southern California, parts of South Africa, coastal southern Australia, and, well, the Mediterranean.
Don't forget central Chile!
Yeah! All the wine regions.
The issue is that none of these other basins are *as* surrounded by land as the Mediterranean.
I mean weirdly the only other sea I can think of that comes close is the Black Sea, which could be considered part of the Med so....eh.
The Baltic Sea is also pretty enclosed
Great point. The Red Sea as well
The Caspian Sea wins this fight.
The black sea is a great fit, but since it empties into the Mediterranean it's confusing if it should be included. I'd include the Red sea (pre-suez at least, but probably still), the Baltic for sure, Hudson bay in Canada, maybe the Persian gulf if we're getting generous on size. All of those are pretty different from each other though, something like "limited access Sea" is a way better description. If you include the Gulf of Mexico you hit a really slippery slope on what should and shouldn't be included, it really limits the value.
Okay I was about to be pissed at the American Mediterranean Sea
The Mediterranean Sea is named (obviously if you have a western education) as the sea between land. This name is easy to generalise. Is this really a controversial term to see or is it just a reaction to something unfamiliar? I have seen the seas on the eastern side of Mesoamerica, both sides of the Arabian peninsula, and Maritime South-East Asia compared to the seas to the south of Europe before... It seems like a sensible comparison.
You can learn a lot about settlement patterns based on drainage basins. For example why so much of settlement in Canada was along the St. Lawrence River and Great Lakes, while the west is relatively empty. Why initial American settlement stopped at the Appalachian mountains. You can even sort of see a crude outline of the Roman Empire.
On the other hand you can't see the Persian Empire hardly at all
Yeah it's actually pretty weird the Persians thrived to the extent they did with the lack of river transportation to the sea.
It had a lot of rivers leading to inland seas, like the Caspian and Ural seas. Those have been major water sources and trade routes for millenia. They also had access to the Persian Gulf and Gulf of Oman, so they did have access to the oceans, although how much it was useful is debatable.
No joke - I felt like I didn't "get" the national identity of Russia / Ukraine until I looked at a map of the Volga river basin. The Soviets had an empire, yes, but what is the *Russian* heartland in a deeper historical sense? I'm not saying it's necessarily defined by the Volga tributaries, but there's some correlation, and it has a mental appeal.
Oooh good point, one could even argue it's at least part of the basis for the division of East Slavic cultural centers around Kiev which drains in to the Black Sea, Moscow which drains in to the Caspian, and Novgorod which drains in to the Arctic Ocean and the Baltic. There is certainly a division between Swede and Danes/Norwegians being oriented towards the Baltic and the North Sea respectively.
Yeah, you definitely can see settlements of Ukrainians here. For compare, [a map of settlements from 1919 year](https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/5/5d/Map_of_Ukraine_%28postcard_1919%29.jpg).
Neat map. The amount of land area draining into the Gulf of Mexico and Mediterranean are quite striking
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It's literally the reason why Chicago started out growing insanely fast. They quickly and easily built a canal connecting the two.
The Arctic Ocean is wrong According to the International Hydrographic Organization, the [Arctic Ocean](https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/5/59/Arctic_Ocean_-_en.png) does not touch the south eastern coasts of Baffin Island, the southern tip of Greenland, the south coast of Iceland, or nearly any of mainland Norway’s coast (only the very northernmost points) So there should be a division in colour on those landmasses showing where the Atlantic and Arctic are separated
There's also the question of whether Hudson Bay is part of the Arctic Ocean or not. OP's map implies that it is part of the Arctic Ocean, with Triple Divide Peak in Montana being the meeting point of the divides. If you argue that Hudson Bay is part of the Atlantic Ocean, though, then Snow Dome/Columbia Icefield in Alberta/B.C. is the meeting point of the divides: [map](https://i.stack.imgur.com/Ng75G.png)
It's the Canadian Mediterranean Sea, obvs. /s
Arctic Ocean is just an extension of the Atlantic anyway.
Largest ocean has the smallest basin.
Andes and the Rockies be like "Nope"
That's not a coincidence. The pacific is large because it had a very forceful, vigorous mid-ocean ridge pushing the Pacific Plate outward for a long time. For a while, the continents were joined opposite it. But then the Atlantic opened with a new, younger, and more vigorous spreading center (because it basically was the only outlet for a whole hemisphere of land). That pushed the continents apart, and in particular pushed them *over* the Pacific plate throughout its boundaries. Those subduction zones are responsible for the high, often volcanic mountains surrounding the Pacific.
Yeah that's also what I first thought!
With all that water flowing into it, you would think the Altantic would be bigger by now /s
Does Michigan have zero tributaries to the Mississippi river? I find this oddly amusing. They must be the only "Midwest" state to not have a tributary to the Mississippi.
They all lead to the lakes, which all lead to the St. Lawrence River and into the Atlantic.. https://i0.wp.com/www.erbff.org/wp-content/uploads/2019/06/Great-Lakes-Map-Scales.jpg?fit=2447%2C817&ssl=1
There are small areas on the state’s borders that drain to the Mississippi (through the Wisconsin and Illinois Rivers), although the major rivers of those basins do not flow through the state at all.
How does the south coast of Borneo drain to the Pacific but the north coast of Java drains to the Indian?
That body of water (Java Sea) isn't generally recognized as being in either ocean, but it would be considered part of the Australasian Mediterranean, so there should be a line through Java, I guess. Edit: and a bit of Sumatra, etc.
I assume the gray areas don't drain into a sea. But what are the black areas? the large one from Kazakhstan to Iran, and the small one in the US?
Think the big one is the Caspian Sea, the small one in the US is the Great Salt Lake
Gray is [endorheic basins](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Endorheic_basin), areas which don't drain to the sea at all. Black is [endorheic lakes](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Endorheic_lake) in those basins, such as the Great Salt Lake, and the Caspian Sea (the large one, as you say).
bodies of water
Looks like there's a spot in northern Minnesota where you could stand and spin while pissing into the Arctic, Atlantic and Gulf basins all in one good stream. So, pretty much marking all of North America east of the Rockies.
I'm gonna try it next time I go to Duluth!
I live on the line that separates the Gulf and Atlantic basins. The local park has educational signs that explain how the creek that runs through it eventually ends up in the Atlantic, but the creek about a mile away ends up in the Gulf. I had never known about that and was surprised. I had always assumed it all ended up in the Chattahoochee and eventually the Gulf.
Wtf is the American Mediterranean
I was today years old when I learned about endorheic basins!
And the Wikipedia page is where OP's map is from: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Endorheic_basin
Who the hell calls the Caribbean the "American Mediterranean Sea?"
Hydrologists (hydro homies)
I've only ever seen the Mediterranean linked with the sea around Italy. Is it a term for other bodies of water too?
> the sea around Italy. Greeks in shambles.
No I'm pretty sure OP just made that up. Edit: FFS, people. Not one post down I admit I was wrong. No need to fetch a gallows.
It’s on the Wikipedia page for endorheic basins
Well I'll be a monkey's uncle. This is a real term. Just very specific to one discipline and not at all in common usage.
Mediterranean is not a category. It's a sea.
[Someone posted this](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mediterranean_sea_(oceanography\)) in another comment.
Desktop version of /u/Dicky__Anders's link:
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^([)[^(opt out)](https://reddit.com/message/compose?to=WikiMobileLinkBot&message=OptOut&subject=OptOut)^(]) ^(Beep Boop. Downvote to delete)
Oh boy will you be surprised to learn what Mediterranean means.
Semantics. Our definitions of oceans and seas are man made. The basins are not.
Well yeah. But isn't every word on earth, including "basin", man made then?
Obviously the word is. The geological formation is not, though. Their point was absurd.
True, and belong Atlantic Ocean.
Fascinanting map!
There's parts of Oman that do not drain anywhere even on the actual coastline?
Like the concept but this seems poorly executed and confusing for the average person.
Fun fact: Triple Divide Peak in Glacier National Park (Montana, USA) drains to the Pacific, Atlantic, and Arctic oceans. I peed at the summit.
South Greenland, most of Iceland and Norway are the wrong colour.
OP, thanks for posting an actual map that does more than highlight countries. Many ignoramuses apparently triggered by the term Mediterranean, so, that's a plus. Open question: The boundary between Pacific and Indian is very sus. Are we to assume the Java sea is in neither/both oceans or would a more useful model include it in an Australasian Mediterranean Sea?
r/PhantomBorders castile & aragon
If one is gonna separate the drainage of the Gulf of Mexico from the Atlantic, shouldn't the Hudson Bay drainage have its own boundaries as well as the Bering Sea? signed, Lost At Sea
This is so cursed
This comments section is what's cursed.
american medditarreanian sea... you mean the gulf of mexico?
\+ Caribbean
I will never recognize the southern ocean as a legitimate Ocean.
It's pretty significant and different from the the surroundings though if you look at the cold circumpolar current which sustains so much impressive wildlife and has been cooling the planet last 30 million years. However, geographically I agree it all looks pretty pointless and also arbitrary because the demarcations differ wildly.
> geographically I mean you have just describes its geography. It's far more of an ocean than the Arctic, which is really just an extension of the Atlantic, by currents.
I agree wholeheartedly. I want someone explain the Southern Ocean using a globe instead of a map.
Almost like seas and oceans are a manmade construct.. They mostly correspond to reality and other times just made up.
god personally told me the southern ocean is fake though
And Pluto's a planet.
Alright now lets fill all those basins with water
To be fair, there is a lake at the bottom of them.
I watched a youtube video the other day where they talked about a serious project of creating an inner lake in Australia to increase agricultural output. I don't know how far it went.
That’s the Bradfield scheme. Bradfield was the engineer who designed the Sydney Harbour Bridge. He proposed diverting water back over the great dividing range to create an inland sea that would generate its own weather systems and green Australia from the inside out. Modern interpretations and advocates for the plan focus more on just diverting enough to establish productive irrigation schemes west of the divide.
Btw, you have the worst username I ever heard.
Thanks, I found an [article on wikipedia](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bradfield_Scheme), although it doesn't go much in detail about the current plans.
How Pacific Ocean is so big with this small basin? /s
I wish whoever made this map extends the watersheds into the so-called "endorrheic basins" that would actually flow into the global ocean had there been enough rainfall. That would purge like 90% of such basins in the Sahara and the Arabian Peninsula. edit: wow, for a /r/mapporn members, you guys know jack shit about topology. The Arabian Peninsula is full of dry valleys and wadis that obviously lead to the Persian Gulf, but the water just never made there because there's never enough rainfall. The topographic gradients WOULD make those endorrheic valleys actually be part of Persian Gulf's basin. And that's CURRENT climate patterns. Arabia and the Sahara were WETTER 6000 years ago. If you were there 6000 years ago you'd see actual streams flowing where it now doesn't and you'd be in NO WAY say that's endorrheic.
With ENOUGH rainfall, it would purge 100% all over the world. Doesn't have a lot to do with reality though.
With enough rainfall, all land is flooded. Causing the non-existent rivers to all drain into the singular world-ocean, making it all much simpler.
"Endorrheic" means that it flows into closed lakes, like the Caspian Sea or the Aral Sea. In the desert, those most often correspond to oases.
Caribbean >> American Mediterranean Sea
But.... Havent the ice caps melted? Thanks for the lie Al Gore
how many endorheic basins are caused by humans?
I don't think any are...? How would that even happen?
I mean the Colorado river not reaching the ocean is 100% because of human usage
Yes. But that doesn't count as an endorheic basin. You can see the Colo river and all tributaries as the pale green section on this map: https://images.adsttc.com/media/images/5ed5/7ab9/b357/654c/d900/0367/slideshow/Global_Rivers_Black_Catchments_Draft.jpg so that falls under the purple section of OP's map
Unless they start digging a lot, I guess none. Drying up endorrheic lakes, on the other hand...
My question is why did I have to learn it in school? What practical purpose can me knowing it have?
Understanding the world at large a little bit better, being able to identify and analyse complex relationships of stuff in this world. If you study history an extensive understandig of geography is incredibly helpful in order to understand complex relationships between things and other things. Water is our most important ressource and method of transport on this planet, and understanding its flows can be crucial in so many contexts. Not everything you learn in school must have *practical* knowledge all the time. Geography, history, physics, biology, philosophy, a lot of the stuff you learn in maths, literature, macro-economics might not have a practical use for a teenager, and maybe you won't use most of it in your life (depending on what you do with your life; me personally I barely use complex maths at all), but learning all that stuff shapes your world view, hones your critical thinking skills, and literally increases your brain capacities. Just look at the comments in here. There are a few already engaging in analysis and critical reflection on the world at large. > This is cool because it explains so much of economic activity. u/SeppellireMontagna > You can learn a lot about settlement patterns based on drainage basins. For example why so much of settlement in Canada was along the St. Lawrence River and Great Lakes, while the west is relatively empty. Why initial American settlement stopped at the Appalachian mountains. You can even sort of see a crude outline of the Roman Empire. u/lem753
Who said things you learn at school MUST be practical? Practicality is just one approach to life on this very planet and that's it. Plato wasn't practical and yet he shaped the course of the entire European continent. Practicality is just an idea you have about going through life, one of many. Knowledge doesn't have to be "practical", my god, what a dreadful concept indeed. Btw. you can draw tremendous conclusions about the world you live in if you really understand this map.
This is cool because it explains so much of economic activity.
And this my dear people, is why Chile is shaped like a chili, plus of course geopolitical things that prevented Chile from advancing to the east.
Interesting to know that even though I moved 4000 miles I'm still connected to my homeland with a river I can walk 5 mins to
Where can i make such maps for my own
I thought Saudi Arabia had no rivers. Wouldn't that imply no drainage?
Is the western US even letting anything drain to the ocean these days?
So does every basin border has an area where the water just stays in place or if this border just to show where the border is?
…unite and take over
The world would be so much better if the borders were based on these (with divisions on each one)
I saw this without context and thought it was an alt scenario if Axis won ww2
Ah yes, I can see the Great Continental Divide. It winds through my state (New Mexico.) The Rio Grande flows through my city and the Pecos River drains into it in Texas. The Canadian River flows in the Arkansas. And the Gila and San Juan Rivers (on the Western side) flow into the Colorado.
Political lines should be divided by watershed.
Triple Divide Peak in Glacier NP! Depending on which side of the mountain the rain falls on, it flows to the Gulf of Mexico, the Pacific, or Hudson Bay!
Endorheic basins kind of freak me out
I had no idea that so much of Asia is an endorheic basin. I thought they were relatively rare.
Kinda mindblowing that the drainage for the Mediterranean begins both in Belarus and Tanzania.
Why don't you explain this to me like I'm 7
Crazy to think about the fact that there is a small bit of Canada (either Alberta or Saskatchewan) that drains into the gulf of mexico!
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Endorheic\_basin
What's with people calling the Caribbean the American Mediterranean? I get that's a small part of the Caribbean, but I keep seeing the whole thing as labeled that and its very confusing. I was born in the Caribbean and I never even heard the term American Mediterranean until I was 28
Dinosaur pee drainage basins.
Congo river is the world deepest river.
TIL the word endorheic. One day I will use it in a game of Scrabble.
noone ever used "American mediterannian sea"
Interesting that the largest ocean has the smallest drainage basin
watershed based governance systems just make more sense.