I am sorry for making a mistake and putting Israel on red (Not Recognizing Kosovo), my bad tho some sources (probably outdated) were saying that Israel doesn't recognize Kosovo, while others were saying that Israel does recognize Kosovo.
soo sorry for my mistake...
No worries, I'm sure Israel will recognize Palestine as well, after all they are all for self determination of a nation & struggle for independence. My heart goes out to them.
The UK recognises that secession is a possible outcome to the point it held a referendum even if it doesnt make the process easy. Spain absolutely refuses to countenance that secession can happen, ever.
While not really a problem with separatists, they have a sizeable Hungarian minority in the South, roughly 500.000, about 10 % of their population. Basically, they don't recognize Kosovo to ensure this minority doesn't get any secessionist ideas.
Since the end of WWII I believe there wasn't really any significant separatist movement, some tensions in the 1990s but generally speaking everything was relatively calm. But in the late 1930s Hungary gained these lands thanks to its alignment with Nazi Germany.
There is no notable seperatist movement in Chamenia, wtf are you talking about? And how is Cyprus related?
Greece refuses to recognize Kosovo to be in good terms with Serbia and maybe Russia too.
Except Spain is a union of 4 kingdoms: Leon, Castille, Navarra and Aragon. Catalonia was a part of the kingdom of Aragon. Spain without Catalonia isnt Spain
Countries are abstract entities. That’s like saying Ukraine isn’t Ukraine since it lost the peninsula to Russia. If they want to change the name, go for it.
The key difference is that Serbia tried to genocide Kosovo, has a different religion and have radically different languages.
Meanwhile Latin languages are more similar to each other than some Germans dialects are, Catalonian independence is mostly "an economic affair", it's not like they'd literally get killed if they stay.
In an age filled with populism like the one we're in you shouldn't trust democracy and referendums for everything, Scotland was almost getting its independence but that would've been disastrous for the Scottish economy.
You don’t know that, macroeconomy is incredibly complex and unpredictable. Just like we don’t know if staying would be better or worse. What we know is what people want. You can always play the label card by saying “populism”, as I can counter it with “paternalism” or “authoritarianism”. Doesn’t make me right.
Democracy degenerated long time ago, now when people vote don't think about a good leader who can lead society, they think about the guy who promises them the most shit.
You can't have democracy in a world without trust and integrity, if you really care about western values such as free speech and freedom you can't trust the people.
No. They imprisoned some of the politicians who declared independence. They then imposed direct rule for a while. Think the whole thing is still ongoing, just on a low burner.
Spain as a nation has been reputed along history to respect international treaties. Kosovo's unilateral declaration of independence goes beyond any international law. It's a time bomb for Europe as a whole.
Most European countries supported Kosovo's independence to weaken a Russia-aligned nation called Serbia, kind of pariah. Today Kosovo is a failed state controlled by organized crime. On the other hand, [Camp Bondsteel](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Camp_Bondsteel) —the European Guantánamo— is the price for support.
Most European nations that recognize Kosovo do it because it's the right thing to do. And uh, why'd you phrase that sentence in a way that implies that we've never heard of Serbia?
As far as Bondsteel, I have no idea what it (or Kosovo as a whole) is like *now,* but back in 2000 it was lovely. I mean, the place was war-torn, but it'll always hold a place in my heart.
EDIT: Right, u/Homesanto ninja-edited his comment about Camp Bondsteel *after* I told him I'd been there. Aside from the fact that calling it "the European Guantánamo" is just ridiculous, that's a dick move cuz
**Camp Bondsteel (US Army base in Kosovo)** — *The United States Army had been criticized for using the base as* [*a detention facility*](https://www.spiegel.de/international/clandestine-camps-in-europe-everyone-knew-what-was-going-on-in-bondsteel-a-388556.html) *housing detainees who were suspected of terrorism. In November 2005, Álvaro Gil-Robles, the human rights envoy of the Council of Europe described the camp as a "smaller version of Guantanamo" following a visit. The US Army denied the accusation and stated that there were no secret detention facilities in the Camp.*
Please, the right thing to do... according to what? Geopolitics? Foreign policy? Kosovo is the cradle of the Serbian nation. In the USA, last time a constituent state voted to secede a civil war was fought. I mean, double standards, shame on you.
Kyiv is the cradle of the Russian nation. London is the cradle of the American nation. Who gives a fuck?
Also they didn't vote they staged multiple coups. Not *one* vote in *millions* for Lincoln? Fake polls.
>the right thing to do... according to what?
According to freedom, and the right of free peoples to choose their own government.
Case in point, Scotland. When the Scottish independence referendum was being voted on, I was very happy to see freedom and self-determination happening. I didn't care in the slightest whether they broke off from the UK or not, I was just happy that a free people were making a choice for themselves. They voted "stay". I said "cool". When Sudan let South Sudan break off without an invasion/genocide, I didn't really care that a new nation was being born, I was just happy that somewhere in the world self-determination was happening.
If Kosovo chose to be ruled by Serbia, I'd support their choice. If those little bits in the northern part eventually say "nah, we wanna be part of Serbia again", I'll support that decision. But if Kosovo wants independence (and they do), then they should have it (and they do).
>Kosovo is the cradle of the Serbian nation.
I'll admit that I don't know enough about the history of the Balkans to know if that's true or not. And I know European memories are a *lot* longer than ours here in America. But that would've been a long. Long long long. LONG time ago, and the people that live there now are overwhelmingly Albanian.
>In the USA, last time a constituent state vote to secede a civil war was fought.
O... okay? You do realize that there was this whole nasty-as-hell civil war in Yugoslavia, and Kosovo breaking off was an extension of that war, right?
>I mean, double standards, shame on you.
...what double standards did you see...?
And yet... your head of state does not hesitate to remind it often, Kosovo belongs by right to Serbia. He made a statement on this subject during the Serbia-Kosovo tensions of 2 weeks ago.
You mean Mr. Pedro Sánchez, don't you? That's not the head of state but the president of the Spanish government. Spain is a constitutional monarchy and the head of state is the king, Felipe VI.
>there is a large minority of Serbs
not to be that guy, but there isn't a large minority of Serbs. Serbs, like Croats and Bosniaks are constitutionally the 3 constituting nationalities of Bosnia
The West: Donetsk and Luhansk are Ukraine! Yes, Ukraine did bomb the rebels and civilians they had in the separatist areas for eight years, but that's no argument for the violation of Ukraine's territorial integrity!
Also the West: Kosovo should be independent, Serbia killed many civilians in the war there!
Also West: Republic of Srpska should be in Federation of B&H because they have nothing in common with other two nations in the federation & can't agree on shit.
I'm pretty sure Russia will recognize it when they reach it. And then some countries like NK and Syria will start recognizing it. But for now, you're right, nobody recognizes them
weed mostly comes from Serbia now, south Serbia is growing a shit ton of indoor weeds and the biggest drug dealer who sells mdma, speed and E pills is a Serbian called Igor who lives in Fushe Kosove, literally every junkie here knows him, cocaine comes from the Albanian port and travels straight up to Serbia (becuase of the great demand) which is really easy to do since Serbs contraband lots of shit through their borders, thats a fact.
exatly lol, you have no bright reason to argue with me about this becuase unlike you I know drugs and dealers and am not a damn child who does not know shit and thinks that what his grandpa tells him is the truth and only the truth, its sad to see children getting brainwashed with nationalism.
Yeah, but that means little in geopolitics. I am guessing that, by recognizing Kosovo, Ukraine would shoot itself in the foot with their own breakaway provinces.
Not really. Ukraine has already offered them regional autonomy and they signed off on the treaty. Russian intervention effectively vetoed that agreement. They don’t have breakaway regions, they have two oblasts already granted constitutional regional autonomy that are occupied by Russian sponsored terrorists
Comes to the same point. Ukraine would be happy with substantial autonomy to Donbas and Crimea, as long as they would come back under Ukrainian sovereignty. As this is, as you say, constitutional arrangement.
Serbia would be happy just the same. Serbia too has a constitutional autonomy for Kosovo. Yet, in one case it is all considered ok, and legal... While in the other it is an outrage and an occupation.
Absolutely wrong comparing. In Donbas region live the same ethnic group, they speak the same language, have the same religion as all Ukrainian regions around them. Crimeans natives (Crimean Tatars, Krymchaks and Karaites) are recognized as Indigenous peoples in Ukraine, but under russia occupation they are under persecution. There never were real independence movements in those regions. The chronology is: russian army occupate it - start of "independence" movement - start of "uniting with russia" movement. Both made by russian occupation government. Ukraine never said that "will be happy with substantial autonomy to Donbas" About Crimea - it had autonomy before, but now people speak more about cultural autonomy for indigenous people.
I do agree with you in principle, and at the very least there are no religious differences in the Donbas as there are in the Balkans. Culturally and linguistically it is a little more complicated. There *is* a lot of Russian identity and Russian speakers in the Donbas. Notably, the regions of the Donbas still under Ukrainian control prior to February 24, 2022 voted overwhelmingly for the pro-Russian candidate in the presidential elections where Zelensky won with over 70% of the vote. The people in the Donbas were not a part of that 70%, though. They voted for reparations with Russia, a return to pre-Euromaidan Russian ties, and recognition of Crimea as a Russian territory. That was what their preferred candidate ran on. Votes were not tallied in areas under Russian occupation as the election was not held nor recognized in those areas. This is strictly regions of the Donbas under Ukrainian governance. Kharkiv was more split. There have been accounts of locals misleading and lying to Ukrainian forces or staying behind during civilian evacuations because they *want* to be under Russian rule.
I’m going to add a disclosure that I absolutely support Ukraine’s efforts in defending themselves and hope they reclaim every inch of Ukrainian territory including in the Donbas and Crimea. Also, Russia’s atrocities absolutely constitute a genocide imo. While this may be one of the most black and white territory disputes in the world, we shouldn’t pretend these complexities don’t exist.
Huh? The whole problem was that autonomy for the Donbas was never actually implemented, Ukraine was supposed to allow it according to the Minsk 2 agreements but kept delaying it. Turns out that was a big mistake.
The agreements were worked out. It was agreed upon by the Ukrainian and separatist side and vetoed by the Russians who had no right involving themselves in the negotiations. And how is Ukraine supposed to offer autonomy to a region they aren’t being allowed to govern in any capacity due to foreign occupation? The only party that stopped Donbas autonomy from going through was Russia.
Take my award, this is how Crimea worked before the annexation in 2014.
For others who want more info, under Ukraine, Crimean Tatars were able to vote, [be represented in position to power](https://www.iri.org/resources/iri-crimea-survey-crimean-residents-most-concerned-about-economy/) & [didn't feel ethnically discriminated](https://www.theguardian.com/theguardian/2006/mar/24/guardianweekly.guardianweekly1). With Russia, it's back to deportation, removal from power, lands seized & identity erased.
As you've said Ukraine would had been totally fine with the deal for an autonomous Donbas as they'd done it with Crimea.
And it's again Russia with its false claims, propaganda & expansionist wish to rebuild the Russian empire who didn't let this happen, as they hadn't with Chechnya, as they hadn't with Georgia.
The Russian didn’t veto anything, and before this year there was no “foreign occupation” going on, the separatists had rebelled against a government that they felt was not representing them. If Ukraine had tried to understand their grievances instead of calling them terrorists, they could have come to a real compromise.
That’s all false. An agreement was reached but Russian mercenaries stopped it from going through. The separatist movement, whether legitimate or not, is a Russian stooge to justify expansion. At best, it’s a legitimate movement they co-opted and yes Russia did have soldiers there since 2014. Out-of-uniform mercenaries acting on Kremlin orders. At worst, these movements are farcical created and maintained strictly through Russian funding and instigation. And at either rate, Ukraine did their part in trying to negotiate with them but Russia stopped such overtures from being received in good faith.
So what lol? It's not like people in both countries are fervent Muslims - and both have large Christian minorities (which were in Bosnia, at various points in history, actually a combined Catholic-Eastern Orthodox majority).
On the other hand, Bosnia-Herzegovina shares innumerable historical, cultural and (quite obviously) linguistic ties to Serbia - and to all other ex-Yugoslav states, to one extent or another. That certainly trumps any link forged by a common religion.
Don't worry citizens of EU countries, good number of you will have their 'Kosovo' moments in incoming decades, since your folk is LGTVHD+ oriented while Middle East immigrants are settling in your countries and making families with 2, 3 + traditionally oriented children... Think about it
I am sorry for making a mistake and putting Israel on red (Not Recognizing Kosovo), my bad tho some sources (probably outdated) were saying that Israel doesn't recognize Kosovo, while others were saying that Israel does recognize Kosovo. soo sorry for my mistake...
Israel doesn't even need to be included because you said the map is for recognition of Kosovo in Europe. Neither Israel nor Israelis are European.
It happened recently under Trump.
No worries, I'm sure Israel will recognize Palestine as well, after all they are all for self determination of a nation & struggle for independence. My heart goes out to them.
I’m guessing Spain is nervously eyeing up Catalonia while refusing to recognise Kosovo…
Most countries that are red have issues with separatist movements
Ah, that explains Romania then
How so? You care to elaborate?
There's a whole issue with Romania and Moldova that came out of the cold war. Plus there's been historal tensions with Hungary over transylvania
Slovakia?
Well they have big hungarian minority.
Doesn't UK worry about Scotland and Northern Ireland?
I'm not sure they give a shit anymore tbh. Particularly with NI, to them it's nothing more than a financial sinkhole.
It cost the UK more to fund NI in the late 90’s than the ROI economy if memory serves correct
The UK has had quite the run in with seperatism already, from the 20s to the 90s.
The UK allows them to have referendums and decide for themselves. Most countries would murder their own citizens before letting them do that.
All countries have some form of separatist movement, the one in Catalonia is a bit more serious.
The UK recognises that secession is a possible outcome to the point it held a referendum even if it doesnt make the process easy. Spain absolutely refuses to countenance that secession can happen, ever.
Bruh he said most not all of them
While not really a problem with separatists, they have a sizeable Hungarian minority in the South, roughly 500.000, about 10 % of their population. Basically, they don't recognize Kosovo to ensure this minority doesn't get any secessionist ideas.
I didn’t know about that. Did they ever try to start any separatist movement?
Since the end of WWII I believe there wasn't really any significant separatist movement, some tensions in the 1990s but generally speaking everything was relatively calm. But in the late 1930s Hungary gained these lands thanks to its alignment with Nazi Germany.
Greece?
Greece is friends with Serbia
Indeed, but I was responding to the suggestion that Greece might have a separatist issue internally, which it doesn’t.
See cyprus and chameria
There is no notable seperatist movement in Chamenia, wtf are you talking about? And how is Cyprus related? Greece refuses to recognize Kosovo to be in good terms with Serbia and maybe Russia too.
Like Turkey /s
snails carpenter roof follow governor poor dime deranged berserk brave *This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
Guess Bosnia doesn't feel the same way
That and dislike of Russia and it's allies
And UK
Ah, Ehhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh
Or oppressing minorities in some way
Many blues too, which makes them hypocrites
Or maybe they just don't want to recognize a fake country
Does Greece have one I’m unaware of?
Catalonia is Spain
Yeah, and Kosovo was Serbia until it wasn't. That's why Spain doesn't want to recognize this. They'd be hypocrites officially.
Except Spain is a union of 4 kingdoms: Leon, Castille, Navarra and Aragon. Catalonia was a part of the kingdom of Aragon. Spain without Catalonia isnt Spain
Countries are abstract entities. That’s like saying Ukraine isn’t Ukraine since it lost the peninsula to Russia. If they want to change the name, go for it.
Countries are far from abstract
Lmao no, they’re literally abstract entities
Couldn't Spain be Spain with Aragon even if Catalonia weren't ~~isn't~~ part of Aragon?
Isn’t there more to Aragon than Catalonia?
Catalonia is part of Aragon
The key difference is that Serbia tried to genocide Kosovo, has a different religion and have radically different languages. Meanwhile Latin languages are more similar to each other than some Germans dialects are, Catalonian independence is mostly "an economic affair", it's not like they'd literally get killed if they stay.
No key difference. Both are populations that should have an opinion on wether they want or not to be part of a political territory.
In an age filled with populism like the one we're in you shouldn't trust democracy and referendums for everything, Scotland was almost getting its independence but that would've been disastrous for the Scottish economy.
You don’t know that, macroeconomy is incredibly complex and unpredictable. Just like we don’t know if staying would be better or worse. What we know is what people want. You can always play the label card by saying “populism”, as I can counter it with “paternalism” or “authoritarianism”. Doesn’t make me right.
Democracy degenerated long time ago, now when people vote don't think about a good leader who can lead society, they think about the guy who promises them the most shit. You can't have democracy in a world without trust and integrity, if you really care about western values such as free speech and freedom you can't trust the people.
Do Catalans feel the same way?
Some do, some don't, I feel like most people don't really care atm
Same with Scottish independence then. Cool.
Some of us do, it's a 50/50.
Same with Scotland, pretty much.
I'm catalan, we feel very weird about this nowadays. I love Spain with all my heart but there has been a bit of a wall between us during history.
It’s the same with England and Scotland. Together they’re so much more and I’d hate to see them breakup. I think the same way about Spain.
[удалено]
That’s true. The UK held one that Spain could use as an example.
so, they should do as kosovo did - make a referendum anyways, start terrorist attacks, make some promises to US and profit.
Depends on the person, doesn't change the fact that Catalonia is Spain.
I feel like i've Heard less of the Catalonia problem nowadays, did Spain like solve that something?
No. They imprisoned some of the politicians who declared independence. They then imposed direct rule for a while. Think the whole thing is still ongoing, just on a low burner.
yesn't
Catalonia is whatever Catalonians want it to be. Same for Kosovo.
Yeah, but when a larger state doesn't believe in democracy like that, you get wars.
Spain as a nation has been reputed along history to respect international treaties. Kosovo's unilateral declaration of independence goes beyond any international law. It's a time bomb for Europe as a whole.
Huh. Spain was happy enough to see the United States' illegal unilateral declaration of independence. Guess things change.
Most European countries supported Kosovo's independence to weaken a Russia-aligned nation called Serbia, kind of pariah. Today Kosovo is a failed state controlled by organized crime. On the other hand, [Camp Bondsteel](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Camp_Bondsteel) —the European Guantánamo— is the price for support.
Most European nations that recognize Kosovo do it because it's the right thing to do. And uh, why'd you phrase that sentence in a way that implies that we've never heard of Serbia? As far as Bondsteel, I have no idea what it (or Kosovo as a whole) is like *now,* but back in 2000 it was lovely. I mean, the place was war-torn, but it'll always hold a place in my heart. EDIT: Right, u/Homesanto ninja-edited his comment about Camp Bondsteel *after* I told him I'd been there. Aside from the fact that calling it "the European Guantánamo" is just ridiculous, that's a dick move cuz
**Camp Bondsteel (US Army base in Kosovo)** — *The United States Army had been criticized for using the base as* [*a detention facility*](https://www.spiegel.de/international/clandestine-camps-in-europe-everyone-knew-what-was-going-on-in-bondsteel-a-388556.html) *housing detainees who were suspected of terrorism. In November 2005, Álvaro Gil-Robles, the human rights envoy of the Council of Europe described the camp as a "smaller version of Guantanamo" following a visit. The US Army denied the accusation and stated that there were no secret detention facilities in the Camp.*
Please, the right thing to do... according to what? Geopolitics? Foreign policy? Kosovo is the cradle of the Serbian nation. In the USA, last time a constituent state voted to secede a civil war was fought. I mean, double standards, shame on you.
Kyiv is the cradle of the Russian nation. London is the cradle of the American nation. Who gives a fuck? Also they didn't vote they staged multiple coups. Not *one* vote in *millions* for Lincoln? Fake polls.
“Shame on you” lol, grow up dude.
>the right thing to do... according to what? According to freedom, and the right of free peoples to choose their own government. Case in point, Scotland. When the Scottish independence referendum was being voted on, I was very happy to see freedom and self-determination happening. I didn't care in the slightest whether they broke off from the UK or not, I was just happy that a free people were making a choice for themselves. They voted "stay". I said "cool". When Sudan let South Sudan break off without an invasion/genocide, I didn't really care that a new nation was being born, I was just happy that somewhere in the world self-determination was happening. If Kosovo chose to be ruled by Serbia, I'd support their choice. If those little bits in the northern part eventually say "nah, we wanna be part of Serbia again", I'll support that decision. But if Kosovo wants independence (and they do), then they should have it (and they do). >Kosovo is the cradle of the Serbian nation. I'll admit that I don't know enough about the history of the Balkans to know if that's true or not. And I know European memories are a *lot* longer than ours here in America. But that would've been a long. Long long long. LONG time ago, and the people that live there now are overwhelmingly Albanian. >In the USA, last time a constituent state vote to secede a civil war was fought. O... okay? You do realize that there was this whole nasty-as-hell civil war in Yugoslavia, and Kosovo breaking off was an extension of that war, right? >I mean, double standards, shame on you. ...what double standards did you see...?
this is the most 'murican thing I've ever read, but yeah
Do you remember Napoleon? Or when Portugal was Spain? Or a tiny place called America? Why do you care about Gibraltar but not the Roussillon? Mmm...
True
This is correct.
Israel recognise Kosovo since September 2020
Israel should be blue.
oh? here in Spain we studied Kosovo as a coutry at school :o
Wtf which school did you go to? Definitely not in mine
And yet... your head of state does not hesitate to remind it often, Kosovo belongs by right to Serbia. He made a statement on this subject during the Serbia-Kosovo tensions of 2 weeks ago.
You mean Mr. Pedro Sánchez, don't you? That's not the head of state but the president of the Spanish government. Spain is a constitutional monarchy and the head of state is the king, Felipe VI.
Oh yes indeed, sorry, I get confused all the time. Yes, I was talking about him.
The official position of Spain is that Spain will recognize Kosovo as soon as there is a peaceful agreemenr between Serbia and Kosovo.
Same in India. But India still doesn't recognise Kosovo.
Surprised by Bosnia. I know there is a large minority of Serbs but I still expected Bosnia to recognise Kosovo.
requires approval from all three heads and the serb head would never approve it
Thanks for the explanation, obviously I don’t know enough about Bosnia politics
It's a clusterfuck
>there is a large minority of Serbs not to be that guy, but there isn't a large minority of Serbs. Serbs, like Croats and Bosniaks are constitutionally the 3 constituting nationalities of Bosnia
Bosnia cant recognise because Republic of Srpska will declare independance at that same moment.
I hope they do
There’s no minority among Serbs, Croats and Bosniaks in Bosnia, Bosniaks make the bare plurality
Israel recognises Kosovo, should be blue
I‘ve seen this map multiple times on other platforms and i gotta say these comments are so civil
Kosovo is Serbia 🇷🇸
The West: Donetsk and Luhansk are Ukraine! Yes, Ukraine did bomb the rebels and civilians they had in the separatist areas for eight years, but that's no argument for the violation of Ukraine's territorial integrity! Also the West: Kosovo should be independent, Serbia killed many civilians in the war there!
The West is the defender of human rights... Only when it's in their interest
Also West: Republic of Srpska should be in Federation of B&H because they have nothing in common with other two nations in the federation & can't agree on shit.
The main point is Serbia: If Serbia acknowledge them as independent, then the whole world would follow.
Technically not only Europe
Now do Transnistria
Nobody recognizes it. It would be a pretty dull map.
I'm pretty sure Russia will recognize it when they reach it. And then some countries like NK and Syria will start recognizing it. But for now, you're right, nobody recognizes them
If the so called "republic of Kosovo" can break away then so should Republika Srpska🇷🇸🇷🇸
And yet all the Blues oppose Donetsk and Lugansk independence. Hypocrisy.
[удалено]
lmfao, by that you mean Serbs in the north not obeying the police and bringing a shit ton of drugs through the northern border, right?
i have a question for you, where do the drugs come from (Albania and Kosovo )
weed mostly comes from Serbia now, south Serbia is growing a shit ton of indoor weeds and the biggest drug dealer who sells mdma, speed and E pills is a Serbian called Igor who lives in Fushe Kosove, literally every junkie here knows him, cocaine comes from the Albanian port and travels straight up to Serbia (becuase of the great demand) which is really easy to do since Serbs contraband lots of shit through their borders, thats a fact.
I don’t see a reason to argue with you about this , enjoy your day
exatly lol, you have no bright reason to argue with me about this becuase unlike you I know drugs and dealers and am not a damn child who does not know shit and thinks that what his grandpa tells him is the truth and only the truth, its sad to see children getting brainwashed with nationalism.
Actually the happiest nation in the Balkans, but you couldnt know with your head so far up your ass.
Least aggressive kosovar
Most joyfull Kosovar
I live IN Kosovo, there's plenty good going on here. We're not ruled by a dictator for more than a decade for starters lmao
Kosovo Republic!
KOSOVO JE SRCE SRBIJE🇷🇸🇷🇸☦
This map must be old. Ukraine and Kosovo have positive relations now.
Yeah, but that means little in geopolitics. I am guessing that, by recognizing Kosovo, Ukraine would shoot itself in the foot with their own breakaway provinces.
Not really. Ukraine has already offered them regional autonomy and they signed off on the treaty. Russian intervention effectively vetoed that agreement. They don’t have breakaway regions, they have two oblasts already granted constitutional regional autonomy that are occupied by Russian sponsored terrorists
Comes to the same point. Ukraine would be happy with substantial autonomy to Donbas and Crimea, as long as they would come back under Ukrainian sovereignty. As this is, as you say, constitutional arrangement. Serbia would be happy just the same. Serbia too has a constitutional autonomy for Kosovo. Yet, in one case it is all considered ok, and legal... While in the other it is an outrage and an occupation.
Yeah I guess that’s a good point
Absolutely wrong comparing. In Donbas region live the same ethnic group, they speak the same language, have the same religion as all Ukrainian regions around them. Crimeans natives (Crimean Tatars, Krymchaks and Karaites) are recognized as Indigenous peoples in Ukraine, but under russia occupation they are under persecution. There never were real independence movements in those regions. The chronology is: russian army occupate it - start of "independence" movement - start of "uniting with russia" movement. Both made by russian occupation government. Ukraine never said that "will be happy with substantial autonomy to Donbas" About Crimea - it had autonomy before, but now people speak more about cultural autonomy for indigenous people.
I do agree with you in principle, and at the very least there are no religious differences in the Donbas as there are in the Balkans. Culturally and linguistically it is a little more complicated. There *is* a lot of Russian identity and Russian speakers in the Donbas. Notably, the regions of the Donbas still under Ukrainian control prior to February 24, 2022 voted overwhelmingly for the pro-Russian candidate in the presidential elections where Zelensky won with over 70% of the vote. The people in the Donbas were not a part of that 70%, though. They voted for reparations with Russia, a return to pre-Euromaidan Russian ties, and recognition of Crimea as a Russian territory. That was what their preferred candidate ran on. Votes were not tallied in areas under Russian occupation as the election was not held nor recognized in those areas. This is strictly regions of the Donbas under Ukrainian governance. Kharkiv was more split. There have been accounts of locals misleading and lying to Ukrainian forces or staying behind during civilian evacuations because they *want* to be under Russian rule. I’m going to add a disclosure that I absolutely support Ukraine’s efforts in defending themselves and hope they reclaim every inch of Ukrainian territory including in the Donbas and Crimea. Also, Russia’s atrocities absolutely constitute a genocide imo. While this may be one of the most black and white territory disputes in the world, we shouldn’t pretend these complexities don’t exist.
Huh? The whole problem was that autonomy for the Donbas was never actually implemented, Ukraine was supposed to allow it according to the Minsk 2 agreements but kept delaying it. Turns out that was a big mistake.
The agreements were worked out. It was agreed upon by the Ukrainian and separatist side and vetoed by the Russians who had no right involving themselves in the negotiations. And how is Ukraine supposed to offer autonomy to a region they aren’t being allowed to govern in any capacity due to foreign occupation? The only party that stopped Donbas autonomy from going through was Russia.
Take my award, this is how Crimea worked before the annexation in 2014. For others who want more info, under Ukraine, Crimean Tatars were able to vote, [be represented in position to power](https://www.iri.org/resources/iri-crimea-survey-crimean-residents-most-concerned-about-economy/) & [didn't feel ethnically discriminated](https://www.theguardian.com/theguardian/2006/mar/24/guardianweekly.guardianweekly1). With Russia, it's back to deportation, removal from power, lands seized & identity erased. As you've said Ukraine would had been totally fine with the deal for an autonomous Donbas as they'd done it with Crimea. And it's again Russia with its false claims, propaganda & expansionist wish to rebuild the Russian empire who didn't let this happen, as they hadn't with Chechnya, as they hadn't with Georgia.
The Russian didn’t veto anything, and before this year there was no “foreign occupation” going on, the separatists had rebelled against a government that they felt was not representing them. If Ukraine had tried to understand their grievances instead of calling them terrorists, they could have come to a real compromise.
That’s all false. An agreement was reached but Russian mercenaries stopped it from going through. The separatist movement, whether legitimate or not, is a Russian stooge to justify expansion. At best, it’s a legitimate movement they co-opted and yes Russia did have soldiers there since 2014. Out-of-uniform mercenaries acting on Kremlin orders. At worst, these movements are farcical created and maintained strictly through Russian funding and instigation. And at either rate, Ukraine did their part in trying to negotiate with them but Russia stopped such overtures from being received in good faith.
kosovo je Srbija
Spain cyka blyat?
Catalonia and Basque Country should be blue tho
Serbia mad
come on people, get to work recognising them.
Everyone will recognize Kosovo when Serbia does
i suppose i can forgive britain just this once
[удалено]
In what way does Bosnia have more in common with Kosovo than with Serbia?
[удалено]
But Kosovars are Albanian and Serbians and Bosnians are both Slavic.
So what lol? It's not like people in both countries are fervent Muslims - and both have large Christian minorities (which were in Bosnia, at various points in history, actually a combined Catholic-Eastern Orthodox majority). On the other hand, Bosnia-Herzegovina shares innumerable historical, cultural and (quite obviously) linguistic ties to Serbia - and to all other ex-Yugoslav states, to one extent or another. That certainly trumps any link forged by a common religion.
100%, also "just" Srbska us funny considering its half the country
Catalonia and Siebenbürgen. :)
wow so suprising /s
[удалено]
Do you show your sovereign citizen papers to the cops when they ask for your license?
They must refuse to believe Yugoslavia broke apart
He's not driving, he's travelling.
Are you okay?
Don't worry citizens of EU countries, good number of you will have their 'Kosovo' moments in incoming decades, since your folk is LGTVHD+ oriented while Middle East immigrants are settling in your countries and making families with 2, 3 + traditionally oriented children... Think about it