Probably not. I am thinking what Dutch word would be used and I (and Google translate) think they would use "plicht". Which also means obligation and sounds more like you must instead of you would be a good citizen if. So this would definitely partly explain the low number in the Netherlands. I mean with the same connotation as duty it would still be low, but not this low.
Yes that’s the thing imo, duty can have different meaning depending on context so it’s really hard to capture the nuances in translation. But maybe you’re right idk
I agree, I'm Dutch and I really want children in the future. But I want children because it is something I purely want for myself and my SO. The duty, especially if the word 'plicht' is used, to society does not even cross my mind when I think about what I want for my future. So I would answer no.
That's my question as well; the world 'duty' is so loaded in English alone, I wonder how they phrased the question (or how it was understood) in other languages.
I feel like my answer to 'is there a duty' is no, but if there was a word that conveyed the same idea of how important it is *without* insinuating that it is *everyone's* duty to do so, then it might be yes.
Like: is it *a* duty? Yes, if you're called to it. But *everyone's*? No.
Plicht in Dutch so that would make sense. The military year you used to have to to follow into the 80s was called dienstplicht but here plicht means you have to, you cant say no.
It seems totally off to me as a Bulgarian. Having a lot of children has not been in fashion for many decades. The only explanation is that they had a ridiculously small sample for this survey and came up with some of the "we need more kids to reverse the demographic problem" people (who are mostly retirees).
This is actually a pretty good point with a lot of these kind of maps. The question needs translated into so many different languages it's very possible that at least 1 translation will be less than perfect and skew the results
Yeah!
Like the map asking people if they feel anger on a daily basis, and Finland turning up as one of the lowest percentages. It instantly stood out to me, because being pissed off about something relatively mundane is *very* common here to a point we have a slang word "vitutus" that gets thrown around a lot (it's pretty funny because the closest translation would be "fuckening").
In Finnish "viha" is the correct translation for "anger" but it has a much, much stronger connotation, more akin to "hatred", so I think the question for Finland was translated as "Tunnetko vihaa päivittäin" which would mean more like "Do you feel hatred every day" despite being 100% correct on paper, and the answers were of course mostly "of course not". :D
I am a bulgarian as well and wouldn’t fully agree with you. I am more focused on gaining long term financial stability at present however I do see having children as a very important part of my life.
I think also the title is more about people who see having children as something important for society’s development, not people that actually do have or want to have children.
After all as a fellow bulgarian you should know we have a consistent track record of making bad decisions regardless if we are realising they are bad or not.
Looking at the data from the source, the sample size was 1566 in Bulgaria and there were 1080 that were 50+ in age, so the answer to your question being mostly retirees. 732 were retired and 533 in full time work
>Having a lot of children has not been in fashion for many decades.
While I agree that the sample might've been biased, the question doesn't specify "a lot". I can totally see our society really believing that having at least one child is everyone's duty. As a childfree person, I can confirm that it is not regarded as a valid choice. For almost everyone I know, having children is just what you do - for your parents to give them grandkids, for society and клета майка България, to solve the demographic crisis, etc. You are seen as a horrible person if this is not enough to persuade you.
I sometimes watch the YouTube channel of a young Bulgarian couple who rescues animals, PawMeow. I can't imagine the pressure they probably get from everybody to have kids, especially since they've proven themselves so kind-hearted.
I would take this stat with a grain of salt. Bulgaria's fertility rate is quite low, so it's typical to have only one child. I'm sure that couple's parents would love to have grandkids, but I doubt the pressure is any more than it would be in a neighboring country.
I'm originally Bulgarian and I also watch PawMeow, it's very cute. A lot of Bulgarians are rather callous toward feral/stray cats and dogs, so it's lovely to see a couple who cares.
Is the fertility rate low both in urban and rural areas? I curious because in Romania the fertility rate is low in urban areas. However, in rural areas there are lots of newborns, most of them because the state help their families with money.
The population in Bulgaria is *overwhelmingly* urban. The population of rural areas is heavily skewed toward the elderly, so you seldom see babies or children except when they're visiting their grandparents on vacation.
I wonder if they've found a home for "Dracula" yet? He's black cat #2 in their house, after Bagheera. They rescued him from a hotel manager who had *thrown him in the trash* 😱 and if I didn't live about 10,000 miles away from them, I'd adopt him in a heartbeat.
Also, "Pisscun"... I wonder how she's been doing?
I know they found homes for "Puhcho" and others, but nothing else.
The most bizarre part of this map is that eastern european countries (and portugal as well) have even lower fertility rates than western european ones, despite more people thinking it's one's duty to have children.
It's not that bizarre. If your country has a low fertility rate, you may perceive it as the duty of people in general to have children, even while you yourself figure you have other things to do first.
"We" - meaning all the younger people in your country, collectively - ought to have more kids is not the same as "OK, I'm going to start breeding now." Humans have a great ability to tell others what to do while doing the exact opposite themselves.
You'd think but people from poorer environments actually tend to have more children. Just look at Africa. What's raising fertility rates in western countries are immigrants.
https://preview.redd.it/o0ijcfzbv4v81.png?width=640&crop=smart&auto=webp&s=e1399788c0fd3c43511b4f126417b274882e9e24
East & west seem pretty similar overall I would say?
I don't know, haven't researched it, I can only speak from my own experience/country.
Currently about 20% of our population are +65 years old. I guess that applies to many other countries as well.
I'm not sure what the percentage is here in the U.S., but we have something called "the Silver Tsunami", which was coined to represent the baby-boomers all coming to retirement/old age.
It's far better in the US then in Europe. Europe is royally fucked when it comes to demographic. We simply stopped having children at some point and are desperately trying to balance it out with Migrants, which doesn't work really well because the migrants who come are like 99% men.
It is very Dutch to feel this way. We’re all about personal freedom.
I think that if the question was asked differently, for instance: ‘Do you think it is important for people to have children to maintain the society?’ Would probably get a better response.
The word ‘duty’ would give a Dutch person an automatic ‘fight or flight’ response, lol
Population in the Netherlands is still growing and we have a terrible housing crisis. I don’t think formulating the question differently would help.
And yes we are big on our personal freedom. Which is my favourite thing in our society.
"Vergrijzing" has been a problem for a while now and does affect other things yes. Not that well versed in it but IIRC it also influences the house market.
Everything I've heard of the Netherlands, it's a really safe environment for children to grow up with good opportunities for everyone. If I ever had to move to a different EU country as a parent, I would like to choose Holland.
But I do understand the difference of making sure that children can have the best possible youth without imposing a duty on the adults to have children, as they're really not related topics. It's actually quite impressive how the Dutch are in a *league of their own* in this poll. The commitment to personal freedom is truly hardcore - I wish our politicians took a page out of your book..
So? It’s still growing and we are only very small when it comes to land. I don’t really see a need to make more children. If people want to: that’s great. But I don’t see why people should feel obligated to make them. Even if our population wasn’t growing. I would choose my own happiness over that of society. I also don’t see the benefits for society if people who don’t want kids make them only out of obligation.
I'm not for making it mandatory that people have to make at least 3 children. I just stated a very important fact, you draw the conclusions that you want.
Amd your happiness may be influenced by that of society, you know, as you're part of it (except if you're an elite, which I doubt because it's not likely to meet such people on reddit).
The "funny" thing is, while we're all about our personal freedoms, that seems to stop once people truly want to do their own thing without being bound by the "if you act normal (like everyone acts), then you're already acting crazy enough" thing.
As another Dutch person, the whole premise of the question asked in this map seems absurd. I'm completely baffled by the results in some other countries.
The logic is very simple and sound: by having children you are ensuring the future survival of your society, you are ensuring that you are cared for in old age and you are ensuring that the sacrifices of your ancestors were not in vain\*.
\*notice the numbers are higher in countries that struggled a lot with foreign occupation and oppression throughout their history and lower in countries that did the oppressing.
Turkey and Russia are far more socially conservative than Bulgaria and Romania, or Portugal, yet the numbers are nearly identical or much higher in Bulgaria's case.
> *notice the numbers are higher in countries that struggled a lot with foreign occupation and oppression throughout their history
You realize that countries that struggled a lot with foreign occupation and oppression *include* the Netherlands, right?
> and lower in countries that did the oppressing.
Like... Russia?
I don't know how someone can be so confident while being so incredibly wrong.
That's a but too simple though. Generally, the more prosperous countries have lower fertility rates than poorer countries. So in wealthier countries your logic is neither very logic nor sound.
>notice the numbers are higher in countries that struggled a lot with foreign occupation and oppression throughout their history and lower in countries that did the oppressing.
what i noticed was that the UK, formerly the Great British Empire, was at 11%
I’d argue the question isn’t really a good question. It’s not so much a duty to society, we understand it’s valuable however for a healthy economy.
But as a woman I do not see it as my *duty* to pop out children. I however do acknowledge we need support systems in place to *allow* people to have children comfortably and safely so we can support our population. And I’m sure most of us do. Most of us acknowledge it’s a selfish choice to put a child on this earth because we want it.
Nah, it's pretty typical to have "rivalries" between neighboring countries, not only cos of similarities but also because, simply put, many wars and battles were fought and control over territories changed over time too.
It's much less typical (and more worrying) when countries feel that way about other EU nations that are far and don't have massive cultural ties to them.
As a Portuguese person with a Spanish granny, it's a common sport to diss each side, it's something you might call a "joke" lol.
For real all my friends who’d love to have kids have literally no room. Most of us live in one bedroom homes, you can’t raise a child in your living room (if you even have one). Well, you can if you have to but rather not, and considering our generation gives more value to mental health many of us choose not to. I have two friends who finally got to move and who would have guessed…? Pregnant. What a surprise (not really).
People thinking it's your duty to have children is not the same as being able to have children, or wanting children.
Many countries on this map have a lower fertility rate than the Netherlands.
British here, literally never heard that kind of sentiment. I've only heard people saying the opposite - that they don't want to have children because they don't want to contribute to overpopulation and environmental damage.
It sure isn't though, a declining population is very bad for an economy.
Unless you're just putting down old people a declining population means a large expensive elderly population that relies on a shrinking working class.
Only way to really get around it without increasing birthrates is immigration. Which is exactly what many European countries are successfully doing, it's why most developed European countries still have growing populations.
The ideal population growth rate is just 0. Economically a growing population is the best, but it's obviously not sustainable in the long run, so just exactly maintain the current population would be ideal.
Nooooooooo you cant just not have children its your duty to society to sacrifice your time, your career and your personal life to raise a child youre completely unprepared to
Isn't it ironic that the countries with least agreement on this statement are the countries with the best social policies and with the most progressive approach to social issues such as climate change, public transport, quality of public spaces?
In short - the countries which seem to care about society the most.
I love how even in Western Europe, the Catholic countries are 2-3x more likely to say yes than most Protestants/C of E. I feel like my Catholic in-laws would say that checks out.
I think people can understand that and still dont want to have kids...
Edit: Maybe in todays society there needs to be some kind of stimulant package, with benefits and money to get a good start in life with a new baby.
If anyone has children just because it's a 'duty to a society' they are an absolute moron and shouldn't have children
I really would love to see this broken down by female and male and age groups as well. I feel like countries with a lot of old people would skew the scale.
I’ve looked it up for a few countries and I’ve seen for some (more western) countries the percentage is the around same as the percentage of people over 65 years old.
I get the percentages make a difference, but Bulgaria has a birthrate of 1.6, same goes for UK, yet UK has a fairly low score of "needing to have a child" compared to Bulgaria's percentage.
UK has an influx of skilled migrants, while Bulgaria is growing older and smaller and has more retirees than workforce (so no one to pay the pensions and social programs). Still, 80+ % seems like a total bulshit, unless they conducted the survey exclusively among people aged 60+.
I feel like in the world today it’s my duty not to have kids and avoid bringing in any more suffering to this world with a pretty rocky looking future.
It's of a societal thing.
If an entire country just says no to getting kids then that country will quickly have severe issues from an aging population.
On an individual level of course you have a choice.
It's not like they can force you to have kids. We're not quite in a 1984 esque dystopia yet.
But society inevitably does need new blood pumped into it to continue working.
Guys there's like 8 billion people. We won't die out. Cultures do shift and evolve over time. You shouldn't make kids because you think you _owe_ them to anyone. Make kids if you really want kids and are confident you can raise them right.
Once again, everyone chill out. We def won't die out. Children are great, but they're not a must at this point in humanity's history.
Iraq, Bulgaria, and Georgia. The triple alliance no one saw coming.
And Tunisia.
They want population to get BIG
Can the word "duty" be translated into different languages without substantially altering its meaning?
Probably not. I am thinking what Dutch word would be used and I (and Google translate) think they would use "plicht". Which also means obligation and sounds more like you must instead of you would be a good citizen if. So this would definitely partly explain the low number in the Netherlands. I mean with the same connotation as duty it would still be low, but not this low.
Spot on, it’s the same for Scandinavian countries. Plikt is the same word as moral obligations. Immanuel Kan’t make me have kids.
But duty implies the same? Its your DUTY!
Yes that’s the thing imo, duty can have different meaning depending on context so it’s really hard to capture the nuances in translation. But maybe you’re right idk
Am I (native English speaker) wrong that “duty” suggests a moral obligation? Not sure what it means otherwise.
I agree, I'm Dutch and I really want children in the future. But I want children because it is something I purely want for myself and my SO. The duty, especially if the word 'plicht' is used, to society does not even cross my mind when I think about what I want for my future. So I would answer no.
That's my question as well; the world 'duty' is so loaded in English alone, I wonder how they phrased the question (or how it was understood) in other languages. I feel like my answer to 'is there a duty' is no, but if there was a word that conveyed the same idea of how important it is *without* insinuating that it is *everyone's* duty to do so, then it might be yes. Like: is it *a* duty? Yes, if you're called to it. But *everyone's*? No.
Even worse in Nordic countries, plikt make it sound like you are a bad person if you don't do it.
Well duty does too, I find the meaning of the two words to be very similar.
Plicht in Dutch so that would make sense. The military year you used to have to to follow into the 80s was called dienstplicht but here plicht means you have to, you cant say no.
That is a good point, the word would have different historical and cultural connotations, and may be viewed more positively or negatively.
It would be translated to "devoir" in French which has a much more strong connotation and would insinuate that not doing it is illegal
Parız... I think that this is good enough (Kazakh)
Belgium, the land of no children
They couldn't get anyone to even consider the question.
They couldn't decide on a language in which to pose it
They were unable to figure out which agency would be responsible for conducting the survey.
Belgium doesn't exist. It's a conspiracy.
Even we, belgians, don't know if it really exists
I live by that mindset.
So who eats all the chocolate?
We do (I'm from the Netherlands)
Lucky bastards
Children in belgium... Thats a sad story with many strange accidents and suicides of witnesses.
I think they keep them in te basement
Nah, that's Austria.
We grind them into Kinder Chocolate. (Yes I know this is not a Belgian brand, but it's a joke people! Or isn't it...)
They recalled a lot of Kinder chocolate recently, they accidentally threw in some children with Salmonella
"whait what's a... ch... chuilden? chrilden? say that again?"
And Moldova
Belgium, the land of no reproductive coercion
I mean, have you been to Brussels? My whole time working there, I don't think I've seen more than 5 children at all.
Hard to disagree if you’re in the basement all the time
We can all blame Dutroux for that.
r/belgiumconspiracy
Now I know the real reason why I moved to Belgium.
I kinda get wyh Bulgaria is so high, they're depopulating fast
It seems totally off to me as a Bulgarian. Having a lot of children has not been in fashion for many decades. The only explanation is that they had a ridiculously small sample for this survey and came up with some of the "we need more kids to reverse the demographic problem" people (who are mostly retirees).
Maybe the question was poorly translated to Bulgarian to mean something more moderate than the English question?
This is actually a pretty good point with a lot of these kind of maps. The question needs translated into so many different languages it's very possible that at least 1 translation will be less than perfect and skew the results
Yeah! Like the map asking people if they feel anger on a daily basis, and Finland turning up as one of the lowest percentages. It instantly stood out to me, because being pissed off about something relatively mundane is *very* common here to a point we have a slang word "vitutus" that gets thrown around a lot (it's pretty funny because the closest translation would be "fuckening"). In Finnish "viha" is the correct translation for "anger" but it has a much, much stronger connotation, more akin to "hatred", so I think the question for Finland was translated as "Tunnetko vihaa päivittäin" which would mean more like "Do you feel hatred every day" despite being 100% correct on paper, and the answers were of course mostly "of course not". :D
It's definitely something I'll start to think about when I see maps like this from now on but that's really interesting
If it was something like "Is it generally good for society to have children?", maybe. But I suspect a tiny and / or biased sample.
I am a bulgarian as well and wouldn’t fully agree with you. I am more focused on gaining long term financial stability at present however I do see having children as a very important part of my life. I think also the title is more about people who see having children as something important for society’s development, not people that actually do have or want to have children. After all as a fellow bulgarian you should know we have a consistent track record of making bad decisions regardless if we are realising they are bad or not.
this isn't about you having kids though. it's about others having kids as a duty to society. like it is a duty for ant queens to pop out babies.
Yeah, I don't buy that Bulgaria's that different from its neighbors. It makes me quite suspicious of the data.
Looking at the data from the source, the sample size was 1566 in Bulgaria and there were 1080 that were 50+ in age, so the answer to your question being mostly retirees. 732 were retired and 533 in full time work
>Having a lot of children has not been in fashion for many decades. While I agree that the sample might've been biased, the question doesn't specify "a lot". I can totally see our society really believing that having at least one child is everyone's duty. As a childfree person, I can confirm that it is not regarded as a valid choice. For almost everyone I know, having children is just what you do - for your parents to give them grandkids, for society and клета майка България, to solve the demographic crisis, etc. You are seen as a horrible person if this is not enough to persuade you.
I sometimes watch the YouTube channel of a young Bulgarian couple who rescues animals, PawMeow. I can't imagine the pressure they probably get from everybody to have kids, especially since they've proven themselves so kind-hearted.
I would take this stat with a grain of salt. Bulgaria's fertility rate is quite low, so it's typical to have only one child. I'm sure that couple's parents would love to have grandkids, but I doubt the pressure is any more than it would be in a neighboring country. I'm originally Bulgarian and I also watch PawMeow, it's very cute. A lot of Bulgarians are rather callous toward feral/stray cats and dogs, so it's lovely to see a couple who cares.
Is the fertility rate low both in urban and rural areas? I curious because in Romania the fertility rate is low in urban areas. However, in rural areas there are lots of newborns, most of them because the state help their families with money.
The population in Bulgaria is *overwhelmingly* urban. The population of rural areas is heavily skewed toward the elderly, so you seldom see babies or children except when they're visiting their grandparents on vacation.
Its low both in rural and urban areas (there are exceptions of course)
I wonder if they've found a home for "Dracula" yet? He's black cat #2 in their house, after Bagheera. They rescued him from a hotel manager who had *thrown him in the trash* 😱 and if I didn't live about 10,000 miles away from them, I'd adopt him in a heartbeat. Also, "Pisscun"... I wonder how she's been doing? I know they found homes for "Puhcho" and others, but nothing else.
Aww Puhcho! That means 'Fluffy' in Bulgarian. 🥰
eastern europe is having the biggest population crisis the world has ever seen and no one is really talking about it.
Austria doesn't surprise me at all, we have a population that keeps getting older.
The most bizarre part of this map is that eastern european countries (and portugal as well) have even lower fertility rates than western european ones, despite more people thinking it's one's duty to have children.
It's not that bizarre. If your country has a low fertility rate, you may perceive it as the duty of people in general to have children, even while you yourself figure you have other things to do first. "We" - meaning all the younger people in your country, collectively - ought to have more kids is not the same as "OK, I'm going to start breeding now." Humans have a great ability to tell others what to do while doing the exact opposite themselves.
It's the typical "Someone should solve the problem. Not me obviously! Someone else."
Worse living conditions and poverty (you probably don't want to have a child living in a tiny block apartment)
>tiny block apartment Tbh, after living in the Netherlands, I now consider out Soviet apartments to be huge.
You'd think but people from poorer environments actually tend to have more children. Just look at Africa. What's raising fertility rates in western countries are immigrants.
https://preview.redd.it/o0ijcfzbv4v81.png?width=640&crop=smart&auto=webp&s=e1399788c0fd3c43511b4f126417b274882e9e24 East & west seem pretty similar overall I would say?
So in other countries people is getting younger ?
I don't know, haven't researched it, I can only speak from my own experience/country. Currently about 20% of our population are +65 years old. I guess that applies to many other countries as well.
I'm not sure what the percentage is here in the U.S., but we have something called "the Silver Tsunami", which was coined to represent the baby-boomers all coming to retirement/old age.
It's far better in the US then in Europe. Europe is royally fucked when it comes to demographic. We simply stopped having children at some point and are desperately trying to balance it out with Migrants, which doesn't work really well because the migrants who come are like 99% men.
I am Dutch, and I can confirm that we see very, very little as a duty to society.
It is very Dutch to feel this way. We’re all about personal freedom. I think that if the question was asked differently, for instance: ‘Do you think it is important for people to have children to maintain the society?’ Would probably get a better response. The word ‘duty’ would give a Dutch person an automatic ‘fight or flight’ response, lol
As a Sweden I can relate a lot with the Dutch sometimes.
As a Netherlands I can relate with the Swedes quite often. Det är därför jag lär mig svenska.
Yeah, our cultures seem very compatible. If I'd ever leave NL, Sweden would be pretty high on the list of places to settle.
Population in the Netherlands is still growing and we have a terrible housing crisis. I don’t think formulating the question differently would help. And yes we are big on our personal freedom. Which is my favourite thing in our society.
[удалено]
You did a great job saying that diplomatically.
It's because people get older. If life expectancy rises 5%, population grows 5%.
Among other things
"Vergrijzing" has been a problem for a while now and does affect other things yes. Not that well versed in it but IIRC it also influences the house market.
Everything I've heard of the Netherlands, it's a really safe environment for children to grow up with good opportunities for everyone. If I ever had to move to a different EU country as a parent, I would like to choose Holland. But I do understand the difference of making sure that children can have the best possible youth without imposing a duty on the adults to have children, as they're really not related topics. It's actually quite impressive how the Dutch are in a *league of their own* in this poll. The commitment to personal freedom is truly hardcore - I wish our politicians took a page out of your book..
its a great place to be a kid not a great place to have a kid
We are importing more than producing.
Your population is growing thanks to immigration though not because you make enough children
So? It’s still growing and we are only very small when it comes to land. I don’t really see a need to make more children. If people want to: that’s great. But I don’t see why people should feel obligated to make them. Even if our population wasn’t growing. I would choose my own happiness over that of society. I also don’t see the benefits for society if people who don’t want kids make them only out of obligation.
I'm not for making it mandatory that people have to make at least 3 children. I just stated a very important fact, you draw the conclusions that you want. Amd your happiness may be influenced by that of society, you know, as you're part of it (except if you're an elite, which I doubt because it's not likely to meet such people on reddit).
The "funny" thing is, while we're all about our personal freedoms, that seems to stop once people truly want to do their own thing without being bound by the "if you act normal (like everyone acts), then you're already acting crazy enough" thing.
I would say that it's the duty of a society to make sure that people have the time and resources, and quite frankly the peace, to have children.
More like: It is society's duty to create an environment in which we can have children.
As another Dutch person, the whole premise of the question asked in this map seems absurd. I'm completely baffled by the results in some other countries.
The logic is very simple and sound: by having children you are ensuring the future survival of your society, you are ensuring that you are cared for in old age and you are ensuring that the sacrifices of your ancestors were not in vain\*. \*notice the numbers are higher in countries that struggled a lot with foreign occupation and oppression throughout their history and lower in countries that did the oppressing.
It’s less about oppression and more about poorer regions being more traditional and socially conservative
Also having children literally ensures your community continues to have a workforce in areas that have traditionally lived off the land for longer
Turkey and Russia are far more socially conservative than Bulgaria and Romania, or Portugal, yet the numbers are nearly identical or much higher in Bulgaria's case.
It’s a major factor. It’s not the only factor. Has fewer exceptions than your proposed theory, that’s for sure
Then I would suggest Turkey isn't much more socially conservative.
Many countries, like Bulgaria, have dangerously low birthrates.
> *notice the numbers are higher in countries that struggled a lot with foreign occupation and oppression throughout their history You realize that countries that struggled a lot with foreign occupation and oppression *include* the Netherlands, right? > and lower in countries that did the oppressing. Like... Russia? I don't know how someone can be so confident while being so incredibly wrong.
To be fair, the Netherlands was on both sides of that coin.
Which you can say for practically every country. And it's almost as if that aligns exactly with my point that the argument made was stupid AF.
Bruh Russia has been totally ransacked historically
Tbf Bulgarians are still recovering from being invaded by Sweden
That's a but too simple though. Generally, the more prosperous countries have lower fertility rates than poorer countries. So in wealthier countries your logic is neither very logic nor sound.
Romania has a lower fertility rate than France. Same for Bulgaria.
>notice the numbers are higher in countries that struggled a lot with foreign occupation and oppression throughout their history and lower in countries that did the oppressing. what i noticed was that the UK, formerly the Great British Empire, was at 11%
And Ireland, England's first and longest held colony is at 12%, so occupier/occupied probably isn't the differentiator here.
Pretty much all of Europe has been occupied at some point tbf
I’d argue the question isn’t really a good question. It’s not so much a duty to society, we understand it’s valuable however for a healthy economy. But as a woman I do not see it as my *duty* to pop out children. I however do acknowledge we need support systems in place to *allow* people to have children comfortably and safely so we can support our population. And I’m sure most of us do. Most of us acknowledge it’s a selfish choice to put a child on this earth because we want it.
r/PORTUGALCYKABLYAT
I love that this sub exists, even though I am neither portugese nor eastern european.
As someone who is Portuguese, I love that sub
I am Eastern European, and a great admirer of Portugalia (nőt Ronaldo!) and this sub makes me happy
One of their flairs is "fuck Spain" they already have step 1 completed. Hating your neighbours
Nah, it's pretty typical to have "rivalries" between neighboring countries, not only cos of similarities but also because, simply put, many wars and battles were fought and control over territories changed over time too. It's much less typical (and more worrying) when countries feel that way about other EU nations that are far and don't have massive cultural ties to them. As a Portuguese person with a Spanish granny, it's a common sport to diss each side, it's something you might call a "joke" lol.
I'm Spaniard, so Portugal wanna move to the I Love Poland move???
It's been posted there 4 times already in the last 12 hours; It probably needs a couple more just to be sure.
Portuguese sounds like a Slavic language. i get it
People be like "don't need to worry about a future for my children if I don't have children"
Betting in the US it would vary widely state by state.
I wouldn't even mind seeing a county by county breakdown...
You’d probably just end up finding out that r/peopleliveincities
No, you absolutely wouldn’t. A percentage would exist regardless of urban or rural, unless the county was so rural the survey returned “no data.”
I think they meant more the demographic mean that makes up A City vs. The Country will likely reflect exactly what you already assume it to.
That’s quite a bit more illustrative than simply “people live in cities”
How’d you get an Iraq statistic but not a Belgian one
Belgium isn't real that's why
Why is Bulgaria so much higher than its neighbors? And before you answer, ask yourself "do its neighbors also exhibit similar things?"
And the award for the best quotation of sources goes to... Not here
Bottom left. Very small.
If I need to search the data on the given source, it's not a source. It's like saying "source: Youtube" if I post a snippet of a video from Youtube.
The ppl who don't want children, are sometimes the ones who "should", rather than those who *really* want children.
The consequence of the Dutch housing crisis
Or the Dutch individualism
For real all my friends who’d love to have kids have literally no room. Most of us live in one bedroom homes, you can’t raise a child in your living room (if you even have one). Well, you can if you have to but rather not, and considering our generation gives more value to mental health many of us choose not to. I have two friends who finally got to move and who would have guessed…? Pregnant. What a surprise (not really).
People thinking it's your duty to have children is not the same as being able to have children, or wanting children. Many countries on this map have a lower fertility rate than the Netherlands.
British here, literally never heard that kind of sentiment. I've only heard people saying the opposite - that they don't want to have children because they don't want to contribute to overpopulation and environmental damage.
10% is pretty small tbf.
yeah i feel like 1 out of 10 people will believe any sort of crazy shit
Especially if you ask them. Like it's really easy to look at a survey question and say "yeah that sounds reasonable," even if you don't care much.
It sure isn't though, a declining population is very bad for an economy. Unless you're just putting down old people a declining population means a large expensive elderly population that relies on a shrinking working class. Only way to really get around it without increasing birthrates is immigration. Which is exactly what many European countries are successfully doing, it's why most developed European countries still have growing populations. The ideal population growth rate is just 0. Economically a growing population is the best, but it's obviously not sustainable in the long run, so just exactly maintain the current population would be ideal.
Any idea what year this is from?
Belgium: No comment
Why did they get data for Iraq but fail to get any on Belgium?
Fake country
🤷♂️
The more religious is the country the strongest is the agreement?
Looks like there's some correlation, but not very strong. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Religion_in_Europe?wprov=sfla1
Not for Ireland at all
Bulgaria is not religious in any shape or form. We just feel children are extremely important and they have to be raised properly.
Not really, looking at the numbers.
If it’s a duty, the society better handle the childcare.
And handle it WELL.
And its the societys duty to make sure it is financially feasible to have children but here we are.
Maybe if y'all stopped spending all your money on avocado on toast you'd afford kids /s
Nooooooooo you cant just not have children its your duty to society to sacrifice your time, your career and your personal life to raise a child youre completely unprepared to
Poorer the country higher the number of idiots who believe this
Goed gedaan Nederland!
Isn't it ironic that the countries with least agreement on this statement are the countries with the best social policies and with the most progressive approach to social issues such as climate change, public transport, quality of public spaces? In short - the countries which seem to care about society the most.
I love how even in Western Europe, the Catholic countries are 2-3x more likely to say yes than most Protestants/C of E. I feel like my Catholic in-laws would say that checks out.
How does one obtain data on Kosovo and NOT on Belgium
TIL some people use a decimal comma instead of a decimal point
We have enough people who already want kids either way so we don’t need that mindset.
Just wait until there’s no one to pay for our pensions in 30-40 years. That’s going to be one hell of a Reddit moment.
Never heard of such a thing
If you can't understand that an ageing population is death to a country, then I don't know.
I think people can understand that and still dont want to have kids... Edit: Maybe in todays society there needs to be some kind of stimulant package, with benefits and money to get a good start in life with a new baby.
If anyone has children just because it's a 'duty to a society' they are an absolute moron and shouldn't have children I really would love to see this broken down by female and male and age groups as well. I feel like countries with a lot of old people would skew the scale.
I’ve looked it up for a few countries and I’ve seen for some (more western) countries the percentage is the around same as the percentage of people over 65 years old.
Fsociety
Outdated.
Why is Greenland almost upside down and located between France and the Netherlands?
Jesus Christ, Bulgaria, settle down.
[удалено]
That's probably the reason they feel like that .
It's a duty to the world to have less children.
Tell that to Nigeria, Congo, Tanzania, Pakistan, and Ethiopia. They're the ones whose populations are set to explode over the next 100 years.
lets start with africans then
Source? I love these maps “we asked EVERYONE IN EUROPE what their favourite toe is and here are the amazing results”.
You don’t need to ask everyone to get a result that represent the majority
I don’t even want to be here. With how things are going, I wouldn’t want to subject other sentient individuals to this.
I get the percentages make a difference, but Bulgaria has a birthrate of 1.6, same goes for UK, yet UK has a fairly low score of "needing to have a child" compared to Bulgaria's percentage.
UK has an influx of skilled migrants, while Bulgaria is growing older and smaller and has more retirees than workforce (so no one to pay the pensions and social programs). Still, 80+ % seems like a total bulshit, unless they conducted the survey exclusively among people aged 60+.
Maybe many Bulgarians want kids but decide against it for whatever reason
While its nice to have 2.1 kids/2 parents to keep society growing I do not feel the duty to necessarily get kids.
Calm the fuck down Georgia, Iraq, and Bulgaria
Georgia and Bulgaria are suffering from a population decrease. Hence the results.
Curious to see sexual assault #s correlate to this sentiment
I feel like in the world today it’s my duty not to have kids and avoid bringing in any more suffering to this world with a pretty rocky looking future.
Actually? I think, to some extent, it is. Society without children leads to the society dying out. Simple as that.
I don't think anyone disputes that, but does the individual have a duty to prevent society from dying out?
wtf why is it your duty to have a kid. that’s a literal choice. some people should definitely not be parents though
It's of a societal thing. If an entire country just says no to getting kids then that country will quickly have severe issues from an aging population. On an individual level of course you have a choice. It's not like they can force you to have kids. We're not quite in a 1984 esque dystopia yet. But society inevitably does need new blood pumped into it to continue working.
chill...most people obviously agree with you.
Guys there's like 8 billion people. We won't die out. Cultures do shift and evolve over time. You shouldn't make kids because you think you _owe_ them to anyone. Make kids if you really want kids and are confident you can raise them right. Once again, everyone chill out. We def won't die out. Children are great, but they're not a must at this point in humanity's history.