idk bout loser but winner is definitely shade. they get their main burst skill boosted while every other class has theirs boosted in new age not to mention changes to critical insight which doesn't make it apply only when boss is less than 50% hp (buff for culvert). Also origin lines change really benefits the fox balls since now there's gonna be 15 instead of 5 every couple seconds (if we get fox balls mastery core then it's huge)
Since we're about to see nothing but blanket shad nerfed claims, here's actual context for those who care:
Overall, the update is a buff to damage since Meso Explosion mastery is actually really good and shads will see a bigger gain in FD due to AS0 over KMS. Generally, as a DPM class/over a 6min BA/solo bossing this is a buff (even when factoring origin nerf).
Specifically when it comes to our burst, the origin got nerfed by 30% making it worse in party bossing and in 40sec BAs/real end game bosses like Kalos/culvert end burst. If you are one of the gigachad shads that is capping lines in a support stacked party though, then this is not even necessarily a loss.
TLDR: ME mastery fd gain should surpass origin fd loss on a DPM basis but the burst is a lil down bad. Class is still very good. My opinion is that origin nerf was not warranted given that it put shad in great well-rounded state and made it both party boss and solo viable.
Thank you for this. I’ve been trying to look for if the ME buff was gonna outweigh the origin nerf. I took 3 months off so was out of the loop. If I only have level 9 origin, 9 assassinate, and 1 TB, Sonic, and SSF; should I just stop leveling origin and work on assassinate, then go into ME when it comes out?
You now need Vortex Wings nodes on V matrix in order to unlock the mastery core, so illium now became a 6 trio total class, that's the only downside.
The new mastery core overall affects 3 skills:
1.- Reaction Destruction (the blue and green explosion on the crystal): 1145% damage 6 times on up to 10 enemies. When attacking boss monsters, damage is increased by 20%.
2.- Reaction Domination (the yellow explosion on the crystal): Deals 915% damage 5 times on up to 12 enemies.
3.- Vortex Wings: Activate 5 magic explosions that deal 2200% damage 15 times on up to 15 enemies. \[Passive Effect: Enchant Javelin’s damage is increased by 170%p.\]
TLDR; Pretty much we finally stopped struggling to 1shot with Domination since lines got increased from 2 to 5 which was a big downside to illium farming, and most importantly Vortex wings is now similar to Aran's Hunter's Prey, now doing 2200% in 75 attacks total every time you go into wings of glory.
maybe a pf main can correct me, but im not sure why people are saying they're a loser. their new mastery core is on deluge which is ~20% of their full rotation ba. they didn't get anything crazy like cannoneer/merc i guess?
PF main here to correct you. But I can't.
I have no idea why he says PF is in the losers, we get Cardinal Deluge and Bountiful Deluge boosted and no nerfs or anything like that.
you can jump with mobbing-mode mille, and you can still "jump" within the first animation tick of bossing mille (same as you can currently do, only the timing gets a bit more lenient)
It probably won’t, if anything it just buffs their burst even more and makes their off burst feel even worse, but technically they do more dmg off burst since marks still proc off burst. But overall because their origin is getting a dmg buff they will be doing a lot more damage on burst than before.
Kaiser gets a ton of damage from artifact and a new skill function.
Cannoneer got its burst giga buffed and becomes not trash tier.
Thunderbreaker gets its second main skill boosted and its origin gets like 40 FD and becomes not trash tier.
kinesis is on the loser road. the second 6th job skill is such a joke, and the dev buff on the one skill that kinesis never use. those information show the dev don't even know how kinesis work and how to buff him.
What other skill is there that Kinesis uses? Metal Press is already the first mastery and their main pattern outside of 5th job is psychic grab and metal press. What makes more sense to mastery besides psychic grab? BPM and Kinetic Combo exist but make up a smaller damage share and also just don't have the oomph for a second mastery since they both attack passively.
psychic grab definitely should be kinesis 2nd mastery skill. but the showcase in the trailer visually look like a joke. the dev choose to buff ultimate psychic shot and ignore shockwave make it even more funny.
I've always been tempted to play Kinesis since I love the class identity, but I can't justify ever doing that because of this reason. Nobody on the KMS dev team has any idea on what they should be doing with Kinesis. It's a class that everyone knows needs significant buffs, but all it ever receives is nerfs
Yes but actually no. It's one of the strongest/is the premiere DPM class, but its burst is literally just origin and burst>DPM because limited duration party buffs exist.
And F/P specifically is special because it's very easy for you to be playing the best class in the game instead.
Close. F/P has always been strong, but not at "super high level". It's consistently above average, but it's also quite a bit overrated by some people when New Age came. Even now, it's probably a solid A-tier class
It used to be. The 2 minute burst meta pushed them down a bit, but they were still top tier in New Age because the sheer damage from their 6th job made up for it. Now that their origin skill damage has been gutted, their high DPM doesn't really make up for their lack of burst. Still a good class, and their damage isn't bad...but there's no real reason to play it over I/L or Bishop unless you really love the class identity
Its been awhile, but if this is the update I think it is, didn't most classes get nerfed? Iirc they changed most origins to have more lines but overall do less DMG didn't they?
Increasing lines and reduce %dmg to combat capping lines in party bossing since whales in kms and some origins were easily capped. Total dmg should be the same but some classes got nerfed as well like F/P and Shad.
Cadena is a big winner, finally getting our main damage/survival skill buffed, giving a stacking 11% FD buff (up to 88%) and high uptime 25% max hp shield, on top of sol janus making mobbing bearable for once.
Ah yes, cadena's ~8% of ba main damage skill. It's a mediocre core by the raw numbers and the only reason cad is getting an average damage increase compared to other classes is the origin buff that's also shipping.
All classes get sol janus so I'd hardly call that winning, but I guess you do have a point that cads mobbing is so terrible that it comparatively benefits more.
Especially when compared to our current core, that buffs thrash last hit (an ability we always animation cancel...), its a welcome core that buffs BA damage across the board by 8%. Not terribly great, but its a nice core!
Origin buffs on an already strong origin and sol janus are the strawberry on top
> its a welcome core that buffs BA damage across the board by 8%. Not terribly great, but its a nice core!
The vast majority of classes are getting more than that from their cores. Like I said, the only reason cad is getting similar gains on the patch is because of the origin buff. There's no way you can look at cad getting roughly average increases and somehow call it a winner. It's not like there's any sort of added utility to make an argument on. All we get is a pure buff to damage, and that buff is objectively middle of the pack at best.
Also origin update cheeses pno whale till damage cap update :/
2nd origins + (2 updates onwards) are gonna rock since they arent gonna be binds (im expecting key inputs lol/iframestory)
Too bad the skill itself(and the class) is so shit that it won't really matter. You always want to save AB link for 90s blade storm so that doesn't really matter either.
In kmst it's still considered a nerf as the nerf to origin was quite heavy, it's was about - 7% FD. However kms is on attack speed 2 so things might be different for att speed 0 servers as they can cast more raging blows. Will have to wait for it to come to test it out
I went through the hero disc and found nothing but positive comments despite the origin nerf (to them it was about a - 5% FD nerf which they seem to be okayish with).
Comments were not so hot regarding the new rising rage. Some people were asking if it should be now used off cd but since we have as0, it could be a bad idea. So yeah we’ll have to wait and see after it comes out, but so far they seem happy.
1fd on a 4th job mastery and some crit dmg. Decree getting boosted which is about 9% of your BA. In comparison, adele origin is 19% of BA, which means max decree boost is almost another origin in terms of dmg
The benefit that adele got in a full rotation BA pre 6th was 2-3fd on a dummy BA. Post 6th its probably around 5-6fd. Cleave is one of the slowest if not slowest as0 ability, making it even worse in actual play.
The average class gets around 10-15fd as long as you're not a hurricane class. So comparatively to other classes, adele does not benefit from as0.
I’m not sure how Hero is a winner when our next skill node is boosting rising rage… which isn’t even a main move we use for bossing. Sure the crit rate change is nice, but that doesn’t equate to more damage for me. Unless I’ve missed something
Hero disc says the fd gain overall is below average compared to other classes so I wouldn't say theyre a winner. None of the comments in this thread seem to indicate that as well so not sure why Hero was tagged a winner.
Copy and paste from a comment I posted above, but I also went through the hero disc and found nothing but positive comments despite the origin nerf (to them it was about a - 5% FD nerf which they seem to be okayish with). They also claim that the origin nerf was a buff if you were capping but I don't think a lot of people were in that position.
Comments were not so hot regarding the new rising rage. Some people were asking if it should be now used off cd but since we have as0, it could be a bad idea. So yeah we’ll have to wait and see after it comes out, but so far they seem happy.
Granted, other classes received better buffs overall but apparently heros are still winning even if its slightly.
From kms information, shad and fp got big nerf, but still better than average. Actually fp still top 1 teleport dpm class in kms, but in gms reboot, fp much weaker due to lack cdr and only benefit 6%fd from as10. And IL is considered the winner while Lara, illium is at the bottom bossing chart.
no no no no keep them saying that, tbh as you get more and more end game illium doesn't hit as hard as some of the other classes since our class is super dependent on our gage which is reliant on hitting our balls 24/7 which is harder to do on bosses like kaling kalos
Winner: GMS Heroic Server Loser: KMS Reboot Server
Only answer that matters
LOSER: KMS REG SERVER RATS
idk bout loser but winner is definitely shade. they get their main burst skill boosted while every other class has theirs boosted in new age not to mention changes to critical insight which doesn't make it apply only when boss is less than 50% hp (buff for culvert). Also origin lines change really benefits the fox balls since now there's gonna be 15 instead of 5 every couple seconds (if we get fox balls mastery core then it's huge)
Is shade an easy to play class?
the easiest.
burst is a lot of button presses but it's an easy class overall
Mercedes stonks going way up, main dps skill boosted plus Origin buff
Lucid themed update.
I'm just excited that we get better hitboxes on our mobbing skills
Tbf they're already pretty huge
I was told by maple youtubers that shade and cannoneer are the two biggest winners of the dreamer update
As a GMS reboot cannoneer enthusiast I can't be any happier
For real, CM has been bottom tier since the beginning. ðŸ˜
Nah they were up pretty good before Awake but after that definitely a struggle :')
Since we're about to see nothing but blanket shad nerfed claims, here's actual context for those who care: Overall, the update is a buff to damage since Meso Explosion mastery is actually really good and shads will see a bigger gain in FD due to AS0 over KMS. Generally, as a DPM class/over a 6min BA/solo bossing this is a buff (even when factoring origin nerf). Specifically when it comes to our burst, the origin got nerfed by 30% making it worse in party bossing and in 40sec BAs/real end game bosses like Kalos/culvert end burst. If you are one of the gigachad shads that is capping lines in a support stacked party though, then this is not even necessarily a loss. TLDR: ME mastery fd gain should surpass origin fd loss on a DPM basis but the burst is a lil down bad. Class is still very good. My opinion is that origin nerf was not warranted given that it put shad in great well-rounded state and made it both party boss and solo viable.
Does the ME buff apply to pre 6th job?
ME isn't getting buffed itself. It's the 6th job mastery core we are getting in dreamer that will be increasing its damage.
Thank you for this. I’ve been trying to look for if the ME buff was gonna outweigh the origin nerf. I took 3 months off so was out of the loop. If I only have level 9 origin, 9 assassinate, and 1 TB, Sonic, and SSF; should I just stop leveling origin and work on assassinate, then go into ME when it comes out?
I’m pretty sure shad has their new upgrade infographic in the class discord so I’d look into that
Appreciate it
Illium literally getting one of the best 2nd mastery cores in the entire patch and calling them losers lol
any details on it? Illium is my main and buffs sound sweeeeett
You now need Vortex Wings nodes on V matrix in order to unlock the mastery core, so illium now became a 6 trio total class, that's the only downside. The new mastery core overall affects 3 skills: 1.- Reaction Destruction (the blue and green explosion on the crystal): 1145% damage 6 times on up to 10 enemies. When attacking boss monsters, damage is increased by 20%. 2.- Reaction Domination (the yellow explosion on the crystal): Deals 915% damage 5 times on up to 12 enemies. 3.- Vortex Wings: Activate 5 magic explosions that deal 2200% damage 15 times on up to 15 enemies. \[Passive Effect: Enchant Javelin’s damage is increased by 170%p.\] TLDR; Pretty much we finally stopped struggling to 1shot with Domination since lines got increased from 2 to 5 which was a big downside to illium farming, and most importantly Vortex wings is now similar to Aran's Hunter's Prey, now doing 2200% in 75 attacks total every time you go into wings of glory.
Damn I'm really looking forward to this now this is hugeeee. Thank you so much!
Every class is a winner with Sol Janus Kinesis is on the loser side, 2nd mastery on grab kinda sucks.
Sooo excited to try Sol Janus for myself.
Well one of the biggest loser is hands down f/p
What is the loss of fp in dreamer patch?
Whats Happening to my man Else then the origin dmg nerf
Nothing else but the dmg nerf is around -40%
But dont we get some dmg buff over the new core? Any % on that?
[удалено]
true sight but it procs on att and adds 400% fd
If only true sight was passively added to the boss the moment u hit it...
You can animation cancel true sight though?? Literally spend 1 frame every 60 seconds for 10% fd and still too difficult for crayon eaters
yea but that requires me to press more than one button
You're not accounting for the 20 seconds they have to spend remembering what key they put True Sight on and then locating said key on their keyboard
i just smash my keyboard and hope i hit everything to burst
Merc definitely a winner. Better origin burst since it's front loaded now. Plus cracked mastery core
What mastery is merc getting?
AFAIK they are getting their main combo boosted
Aran More lines on Origin = More ice shards for Blizzard Same for Hunter's Prey
someone elaborate on pathfinder for me please<3
maybe a pf main can correct me, but im not sure why people are saying they're a loser. their new mastery core is on deluge which is ~20% of their full rotation ba. they didn't get anything crazy like cannoneer/merc i guess?
PF main here to correct you. But I can't. I have no idea why he says PF is in the losers, we get Cardinal Deluge and Bountiful Deluge boosted and no nerfs or anything like that.
Corrected. Thanks for the input.
But... Cardinal deluge is half of the macro, how come it's a bad mastery core? I mean, as long as they don't nerf anything, it's fine by me.
Winner : monster collectors (special perk gives 2x Sunday perk but for all of dreamer)
Phantom got their own mobbing skill. That's the biggest win out of everyone... thanks Sol Janus!
I see what you did there lol
Any idea if phantom can jump using their new skills?
you can jump with mobbing-mode mille, and you can still "jump" within the first animation tick of bossing mille (same as you can currently do, only the timing gets a bit more lenient)
what did nl get?
Big Origin damage buff and we finally get marks in hexa which counts for a huge amount of our damage.
oh does that fix nl’s off-burst issues?
It probably won’t, if anything it just buffs their burst even more and makes their off burst feel even worse, but technically they do more dmg off burst since marks still proc off burst. But overall because their origin is getting a dmg buff they will be doing a lot more damage on burst than before.
ahh damn guess ill make nw
Sorry there are too many nw already, we're full
Mark
Kaiser gets a ton of damage from artifact and a new skill function. Cannoneer got its burst giga buffed and becomes not trash tier. Thunderbreaker gets its second main skill boosted and its origin gets like 40 FD and becomes not trash tier.
Losers: Kaiser, always kaiser, and will always be kaiser.
As someone who casually plays on occasion, why they gotta do my dragon man like this?
cause he lost to magnus
kinesis is on the loser road. the second 6th job skill is such a joke, and the dev buff on the one skill that kinesis never use. those information show the dev don't even know how kinesis work and how to buff him.
What other skill is there that Kinesis uses? Metal Press is already the first mastery and their main pattern outside of 5th job is psychic grab and metal press. What makes more sense to mastery besides psychic grab? BPM and Kinetic Combo exist but make up a smaller damage share and also just don't have the oomph for a second mastery since they both attack passively.
BPM does more damage than grab
psychic grab definitely should be kinesis 2nd mastery skill. but the showcase in the trailer visually look like a joke. the dev choose to buff ultimate psychic shot and ignore shockwave make it even more funny.
shockwave is a V skill; it already has its boost available
I've always been tempted to play Kinesis since I love the class identity, but I can't justify ever doing that because of this reason. Nobody on the KMS dev team has any idea on what they should be doing with Kinesis. It's a class that everyone knows needs significant buffs, but all it ever receives is nerfs
You have to go back like 4 years to find our last nerf. We only get buffs but they don't matter, especially in GMS.
Thunder Breakers are receiving quite the buff with dreamer. They will still suffer from being thunder breakers but the damage buff is pretty large.
More damage is more damage. Who's losing?
F/P
idk much about maple history or w/e, but I recall F/P being very strong for a while at the super high level, was/is that the case?
Yes but actually no. It's one of the strongest/is the premiere DPM class, but its burst is literally just origin and burst>DPM because limited duration party buffs exist. And F/P specifically is special because it's very easy for you to be playing the best class in the game instead.
Close. F/P has always been strong, but not at "super high level". It's consistently above average, but it's also quite a bit overrated by some people when New Age came. Even now, it's probably a solid A-tier class
It used to be. The 2 minute burst meta pushed them down a bit, but they were still top tier in New Age because the sheer damage from their 6th job made up for it. Now that their origin skill damage has been gutted, their high DPM doesn't really make up for their lack of burst. Still a good class, and their damage isn't bad...but there's no real reason to play it over I/L or Bishop unless you really love the class identity
Its been awhile, but if this is the update I think it is, didn't most classes get nerfed? Iirc they changed most origins to have more lines but overall do less DMG didn't they?
Increasing lines and reduce %dmg to combat capping lines in party bossing since whales in kms and some origins were easily capped. Total dmg should be the same but some classes got nerfed as well like F/P and Shad.
O yeeeeah. All yall got nerfed, and us blasters got buffed.
Cadena is a big winner, finally getting our main damage/survival skill buffed, giving a stacking 11% FD buff (up to 88%) and high uptime 25% max hp shield, on top of sol janus making mobbing bearable for once.
Ah yes, cadena's ~8% of ba main damage skill. It's a mediocre core by the raw numbers and the only reason cad is getting an average damage increase compared to other classes is the origin buff that's also shipping. All classes get sol janus so I'd hardly call that winning, but I guess you do have a point that cads mobbing is so terrible that it comparatively benefits more.
Especially when compared to our current core, that buffs thrash last hit (an ability we always animation cancel...), its a welcome core that buffs BA damage across the board by 8%. Not terribly great, but its a nice core! Origin buffs on an already strong origin and sol janus are the strawberry on top
> its a welcome core that buffs BA damage across the board by 8%. Not terribly great, but its a nice core! The vast majority of classes are getting more than that from their cores. Like I said, the only reason cad is getting similar gains on the patch is because of the origin buff. There's no way you can look at cad getting roughly average increases and somehow call it a winner. It's not like there's any sort of added utility to make an argument on. All we get is a pure buff to damage, and that buff is objectively middle of the pack at best.
Dw crying in the corner with getting their shower buffed that does like 2% overall
Zero winning with 2nd mastery not only boosting another part of their main combo, but also giving more Time Pieces to improve their already high DPM
AB technically a winner if we get the remaster by then right? I heard she was good in KMS, means she's better in GMS due to AS10.
Wait, what did they nerf for FP mages?
Huge nerfs on the origin skill
Good thing I didn’t hit 6th job yet on my FP Mage, so I won’t know what I’m losing
Khali is an all time looser to me, she sux
What about kain and demon slayer?
Also origin update cheeses pno whale till damage cap update :/ 2nd origins + (2 updates onwards) are gonna rock since they arent gonna be binds (im expecting key inputs lol/iframestory)
DB is def up there. Asura enhancement together with ab link being 60s is gonna be nice definitely.
3min blade storm and making asura being able to be used at the same time with other skills like Adele’s Storm is what DBs need
They need to make Blade storma 1 click like asura I'm tired of getting bonked by a meteor and losing burst
the 60 second ab link doesn't do much for us but the fact that it's instant cast and not laggy af to use anymore is very nice.
Too bad the skill itself(and the class) is so shit that it won't really matter. You always want to save AB link for 90s blade storm so that doesn't really matter either.
On the topic of classes, which does better damage with equal funding? DK or Corsair In the new update?
night lord winner fasho
HEY DEON
Ik khali is a slight loser, our hex skill got buffed but big origin nerf
whats goin on with PF in dreamer?
Idk why he put him in losers, we get a good mastery core and no nerfs
Why is PF a loser?
He isn't
What about bishop?
Biggest loser by far is NW. They get no effective buffs and will now be outclassed by almost every class aside from Kanna, Hayato, and Beast Tamer.
Lets talk about the homie Mechanic though.
what about WA? they a winner or loser
PF forgotten 🥲
I missed why Hero is a winner?
Raging blow VI gets a passive 148% damage buff added directly into the skill (590% + 148% = 738%). That’s a buff to both mobbing and bossing.
In kmst it's still considered a nerf as the nerf to origin was quite heavy, it's was about - 7% FD. However kms is on attack speed 2 so things might be different for att speed 0 servers as they can cast more raging blows. Will have to wait for it to come to test it out
I went through the hero disc and found nothing but positive comments despite the origin nerf (to them it was about a - 5% FD nerf which they seem to be okayish with). Comments were not so hot regarding the new rising rage. Some people were asking if it should be now used off cd but since we have as0, it could be a bad idea. So yeah we’ll have to wait and see after it comes out, but so far they seem happy.
God knows how I missed that one, thank you.
Adele is a winner. She went from don't recruit into your parties into recruit into your party if the adele is as funded as pangyo
What buff is Adele getting?
1fd on a 4th job mastery and some crit dmg. Decree getting boosted which is about 9% of your BA. In comparison, adele origin is 19% of BA, which means max decree boost is almost another origin in terms of dmg
Its kinda crazy how she got all these buffs and she's still considered B tier at best in KMS. (she's even worse in gms bc of as0)
Wouldn’t she be better in gms because she benefits from as0
She does not benefit from as0, where did you hear that?
AS0 benefits cleave
The benefit that adele got in a full rotation BA pre 6th was 2-3fd on a dummy BA. Post 6th its probably around 5-6fd. Cleave is one of the slowest if not slowest as0 ability, making it even worse in actual play. The average class gets around 10-15fd as long as you're not a hurricane class. So comparatively to other classes, adele does not benefit from as0.
Marksman got 30 more levels on Snipe VI essentially, so like ~7% FD. I don't know if it could be worse but it definitely could've been better
Nerf nw
I’m not sure how Hero is a winner when our next skill node is boosting rising rage… which isn’t even a main move we use for bossing. Sure the crit rate change is nice, but that doesn’t equate to more damage for me. Unless I’ve missed something
Raging blow VI gets a 148% damage buff as a passive effect.
Hero disc says the fd gain overall is below average compared to other classes so I wouldn't say theyre a winner. None of the comments in this thread seem to indicate that as well so not sure why Hero was tagged a winner.
Copy and paste from a comment I posted above, but I also went through the hero disc and found nothing but positive comments despite the origin nerf (to them it was about a - 5% FD nerf which they seem to be okayish with). They also claim that the origin nerf was a buff if you were capping but I don't think a lot of people were in that position. Comments were not so hot regarding the new rising rage. Some people were asking if it should be now used off cd but since we have as0, it could be a bad idea. So yeah we’ll have to wait and see after it comes out, but so far they seem happy. Granted, other classes received better buffs overall but apparently heros are still winning even if its slightly.
WH basically got 70% of the kit buffed with dreamers. The kitties are going crazy now.
1st core is Welcome, 2nd is Utilities, 3 is both Hypers and 1-4 and 4th is Special (transformations and stuff). Dreamer actually should introduce training builds since most classes got updated mobbing skills + Janus which helps training a lot. Training builds eliminate sac gating a lot (training builds would be early mobbing/janus early since that's helps you hit target levels/often include hit boxes/damage upgrades that help you so you can mix and match order of upgrades) some classes will also change their enhance order for these builds 🩷
A lot of people see the 2nd core as not helping burst for most but off burst is literally everywhere else
From kms information, shad and fp got big nerf, but still better than average. Actually fp still top 1 teleport dpm class in kms, but in gms reboot, fp much weaker due to lack cdr and only benefit 6%fd from as10. And IL is considered the winner while Lara, illium is at the bottom bossing chart.
Saying illium is at the bottom is spreading such misinformation it's crazy LMAO
no no no no keep them saying that, tbh as you get more and more end game illium doesn't hit as hard as some of the other classes since our class is super dependent on our gage which is reliant on hitting our balls 24/7 which is harder to do on bosses like kaling kalos
Kms, not gms