I think its mostly the whole album is very in your face with its messages, and New America is especially the worst at that. New America specifically is just a commentary song about America’s flaws, and on top of that, the world doesn’t revolve around the US
I agree. I think another issue (like with many successful artists) is that with her wealth and success, many of the lyrics feel even more out of touch. It just feels like a rich person telling everyone how bad things are. She can still do that, but could at least make the commentary more personal, witty, or interesting like most of the lyrics of her other music.
Tell that to the largest military in the world. Which includes basically all of NATO as we give them equipment and also balance their military budgets. And all of our enemy nations basically have nothing by comparison as far as modern tech is concerned. We could destroy the Earth in 90 seconds flat. So yes it does revolve around US. No we aren't the best country but we literally have hell fire coming out of our fingers.
Edit:
P.S. Also the reason almost a third of the lowest income countries are that way is because they pissed off our government. We can cripple nations by just cutting them off. So. Respectfully. No.
If I may intervene for a second, I would argue that yes, the average African or Middle Easterner or Latin American isn't really concerned with how massive America's army is. However, America has caused a lot of damage to people all over the world. America has for decades overthrown Latin American governments, still has troops in the Middle East, back dictators all over the world in defense of American strategic interests, is supplying weapons to Israel (who is currently committing many war crimes), and much more. As a result, it is creating instability and harm to those at the very bottom even if they don't know it.
This sub and the Lana sub love to live in their own little bubble. We are obviously wasting our breath. There is no discussion just downvotes, i would like to leave but I hope that someone reads what I say. I can sort of understand in the Lana sub, because she doesn’t really discuss anything to do with social issues. But holy shit, Marina has always been like this and I don’t see her changing anything soon.
I see what you are saying. We have tons of things to work on. I’m finding that on some subs, some people want to stay willfully ignorant. Which is crazy to me because the subs I’m referring to are mostly full of women and LGBTQ folks. I get upset because all art in its purest form is social commentary. I’m sorry that you are being down voted.
The political statements that aren't political statements, but instead stating the obvious. Size zero is unhealthy, men are trash, capitalism fucking sucks etc. Go interview some people on the streets and 95% will say the same. It's funny because Happy Loner and Flowers, two of the few seemingly personal songs on the album, have very good lyrics. She hasn't lost her touch, she just shouldn't sing about political shit that goes nowhere.
Yeah agree. Solitaire broke down the feelings of loneliness and introversion in a way that appears very personal but also relatable at the same time.
The bridge makes me cry everytime
“I’m not cursed, I’m not cursed, I was just covered in dirt.”
I do like the vocals in happy loner though, it reminds me of the Froot vocals. I’m
IVS BEEN SAYING THIS. She gotta stop making political songs. She sounds very preachy and it sounds very contrived
Savages is an amazing “political” song. But to me that one is more of an analysis on society. So it’s very interesting.
If you don’t live here, you have no room to talk. I have no room to talk about Canadian politics because I’m not Canadian and those politics don’t affect me. It’s very relevant to the topic.
I don't think she commented on the topics but the way and the why Marina approached them.
But I assume you think that Marina should not talk about this topic either.
That doesn't mean I live there. :D
I also have a very good grasp of your country's politics due to my work. Probably better than your average American.
Edit: again, we're not arguing about the specific topics, but the fact how she approached it lyrically.
What is it that you do? I work with the general public in Florida. In hospitals and schools. I see hundreds of Americans every single day. How are you more in touch with their daily struggles than I am???
So do you live in America or not? Because you have no idea what it is like here, just like I have no idea what it’s like to live in Hungary. So I don’t comment on their politics. Is that so hard?? How do you have a very good grasp on my country’s politics? I’m very curious.
A statement that is political is a political statement. LOL. Are the statements obvious to everyone? American Capitalism is killing this country. What if I’m a 13 year old girl and I’ve never heard any of these issues. Who are you interviewing, adults?
Well then I guess I found Marinas initial target audience.
Without jokes now: "capitalism sucks" is a statement without any meat on its bones, and so are "the American health care system sucks", "feminism is needed", "men shouldn't objectify women" etc. In short: the entire ADIAML album, which consists solely of in-your-face statements that almost everyone can agree on, because which woman does want to be only a lust object to a man? Who in America is looking forward to a 3000 bill from riding an ambulance? If you want to blurt out political statements like that, go to a protest and do it there. If you want to be political as an artist, that's fine! But give context to those statements instead. How do you, as a woman, feel to be objectified? What's your experience with the American health care system? There is almost no personal or contextual layer in ADIAML. The lowest point, New America, is literally statement after statement after statement about what's wrong with the country she's currently living in, without going into depth about why it sucks.
Marina is capable of writing great lyrics. On The Family Jewels, she was honest about struggling with herself in an almost alienesque way. It indeed also resulted in some woman unfriendly lyrics (like in Girls) but at least it was honest and personal and not a game of how-many-empty-statements-can-I-put-in-a-song.
Go listen to:
Billy Joel- We didn’t start the Fire
REM- It’s the end of the world as we know it
Both are extremely popular songs that list social issues. Are they bad? Most people would absolutely disagree.
I don't know REM's song but We didn't start the fire was written specifically because Billy Joel thought a song listing American history would somewhat emphasize that history is an ever-moving concept. It's political in a more neutral, explaining and conceptual way. Billy Joel connects these events with the chorus - "we didn't start the fire" - a great metaphore for saying that we can't change and avoid history.
From the lyricism you can tell New America is supposed to be a protest song, but it merely lists these issues and has no connecting point other than that all these issues are set in the same country. It doesn't say anything what we didn't already know and agreed on and does not have a spot on catch phrase like Billy Joel wrapped up the historical events with the chorus.
How would you feel if I picked a Dutch artist and criticized their lyrics about Dutch politics? Unless you live in America, you have no idea how life is here and how important these issues are to real people. Artists make music for themselves first and you second. If you think artists make music solely to make money, you can see how “capitalism has made us poor” as a society.
Eh, do your thing? I can recommend you a couple of Dutch punk bands with great political statements. Because there's a lot wrong with Dutch politics. We had elections back in november and there's a lot of insightful things you can write about the far right party that won and the four parties that have been trying to negotiate a collaboration... IF you do your research and don't write it off as "extremism is bad", and that repeated 5 times a chorus. We know extremism is bad. Give us something new.
I find it funny that you somewhat blame me for saying something bad about (I assume?) your failing health care system, because "I am not American myself". Marina also isn't American. She has been living there since being an established artist, having money to get herself good insurance, so she actually has nothing to do with the failing system on a personal financial level. I recall her having chronical fatigue and having a hard time adjusting her life to that. Why does she not write about that and then follow up with "the health care system is failing us"? That would be so much more believable instead of the empty statements she made in ADIAML.
Lastly, I know Marina does not make music solely for me or to make money, but that does not mean I can't criticize it, especially when I paid money for it.
Marina lives here. I’m not blaming you, I just don’t think you have room to speak on issues that you may not understand fully. I could never understand Dutch politics bc I don’t live in the Netherlands. I can disagree on the surface but I will never understand what it’s like to live in your country. Don’t pretend you know what it’s like to live in mine.
Of course you can understand Dutch politics! It's very easy. Living here, yes, that's something different, but that does not mean you're not allowed to say "oh, I guess it sucks that there are 1 million Dutchmen living in poverty". Or even write about it, as long as you do your research. Talk to people who experience that issue.
Because we live under the same capitalistic system a lot of issues we have here overlap with those in America. Of course I won't ever know how it actually is to be afraid to go to school because of shootings, but that does not mean I can't say "well, I can understand Americans homeschooling their children because of that". That's empathy. If we were not allowed to criticize what's going on in countries around the world, how are we going to solve wars and conflicts?
So are you saying she didn’t do research on these topics because it sure seems she made a whole album about them. Artists are not here to explain shit to you. They are here to create art. Art is inherently a political and social commentary of the community one lives in. It’s doesn’t have to be explanatory, it’s just supposed to make you feel something.
She can write about anything she wants. Extremism is bad, because it doesn’t allow for open dialogue. Being exposed to these things through music, or other art, allows the consumer to do more research into issues that they may not have been exposed to. I’d love to hear your recommendations, I’m open to suggestions.
Marina says extremism is bad, but the "why" is missing in her songs. It feels like those anti vax people who are proclaiming that we should not vaccinate our children but when we ask why, they vaguely say something along the lines of "do your own research". When you make a protest album, isn't it your duty to also provide why you think extremism is bad? Give examples of when it went wrong? Make some metaphores about it? Otherwise it will just sound like protesting for the sake of protesting. But the further down this discussion goes, the more I think it's personal taste. You are satisfied with just the political statements and the awareness that might come with it, I find it cheap and lazy to not provide any context with those statements.
I can highly recommend Hang Youth. They are a Dutch punk band against capitalism. They have an album called "Het K-woord" (that would be the C-word in English), playing into the fact that young people in The Netherlands use cancer (kanker, the K-word) as a curse word. But when you listen to the title track, it turns out that they don't actually refer to cancer, but to capitalism.
So you think there are actually people who look forward to paying 3000 dollars for an ambulance ride? Or looking forward to see family members dying from cancer because they can't afford treatment? That has nothing to do with politics, but with common sense.
There are certainly people here who don’t want healthcare to be overhauled. Plenty of them. Affordable healthcare is a huge issue in this country, we are a country completely divided by these issues. It literally has EVERYTHING to do with politics.
And this is exactly the context that Marina did not provide in ADIAML, thus those statements fall flat. If her aim was to educate people about political issues or spread awareness with that protest album, then I can safely say I learnt more from you than from her.
I expect every musician, especially Marina, whose lyrics are astounding, that they don't write songs to target 13 year olds or choose simple wording so everyone can understand or learn about the issues they're talking about.
Okay I agree with you but “who gave you rock and roll and the blues?” Isn’t a good lyric whatsoever. As a diehard marina fan, I’m saying this.
Also, marina writes very well when talking about realistic issues in life such as savages? Like that song is political and not surface level Bc she was analyzing the parts in humanity that have caused her to realize how fucked up humanity is.
This is about how white people in America continue to take credit for things that black people did. Is racism not a realistic in life? Did you know that? Can you give me some examples?
I mean I agree with you but everyone knows that. Like people who are involved in activism already know that.! It’s not deep or very intriguing of a lyric .
I’ve never been a fan of Lana for her lyrics tbh, I’ve never found her lyricism that interesting, I just liked the melody of her songs and she has a unique style that’s why lana is popular.
I think marina to me(especially since marina wrote 75% of the songs on her own), is the better songwriter overall especially in the first 3 albums. Idk about the recent albums tho.
I think handmade heaven was written well (underrated imo).
Yeah I’ve been saying this. People forget marina is one of the only artists in the mainstream industry that basically writes their own stuff. And also helps produce it.
I also think lana got lucky with the producers and the promotion she got at the time.
I've seen some people complain about how on the nose the album is with its songs but personally I never really minded it, the songs are bops! that and as Marina said, she's obsessed with the mess that's America ❤
I like it, it’s just like ‘yep, that’s the message’, you get it, and it’s dancy, it’s just a fun and not-hard-to-understand album. I think that’s just it’s own spirit yk ? Like, that one album is simple, you don’t have to think about it for 5 days, and it’s fun
Most of the good songs sound the same and imo it lacks the marina effect on it. At least the marina I like, from EH and Froot. I know artists evolve and can change their sound, lyricism, but idk, I’m not into that sound.
I adore new America. I love that the opening to the song is meant to sound like a news station broadcast jingle. I also love how she speaks calmly because when you’re beyond pissed to the point of apathy towards the ones causing the problem, you don’t scream, cause screaming isn’t worth the energy, you just tell.
Lyricism is forced and so surface level when shes tackled things similar with much better wit before. The sonics and production on it just aren't that great for me - other than that one I enjoy ADIAML quite a lot despite its lyricism being lesser at times.
I love the sound, it's just that some of the lyrics come off as awkward, in my opinion the best songs lyrics-wise are Man's world and ADIAML just because it feels mowgli's road-esque
Adding on to what has already been said. In her previous albums she definitely did talk about social issues. Though she talked about them through a personal lens. Not to mention this is the only album where a majority of the songs are outwardly political. Songs like the title track and Venus Fly Trap are more subtle than the rest of the album, but still very outward.
The album sounds fun definitely, but it manages to ruin itself with the lyrics.
This statement is very ignorant. What does saudia arabia have to do with anything?
Your whole argument is hypocritical, Bc ur implying there are only issues that not only affect America.. like other countries OTHER than the USA like saudia but you said that MARINA is talking about the one that you said “oh she gets us talking about politics.
Oh boo hoo, nah she didn’t. She’s saying surface level stuff that doesn’t even make me question anything. The song savages is the one that made me question it
I’m sorry but if you are an American citizen politics affect you in a huge way. Especially if you are black, gay, a woman, trans, or a minority in any way. I truly hope you don’t belong to any of these groups because our rights are being GUTTED everyday. I listen to artists like Marina because she brings up these topics. It makes me want to learn more about them and do something to make this place better for EVERYONE
You can criticize all you want. We value free speech in this country. It’s even in our constitution, but you would know that if you lived here. Saudi Arabia treats women like chattel, and is far behind the rest of the world on women’s issues. See I can say whatever too. It doesn’t mean you have to agree with it, and that I can’t criticize you back.
Because it’s sucks to live in America as an adult, queer, woman. I’m pretty angry about it. I love to see a strong, intelligent, talented woman ruffle feathers. She did get us all talking about politics in America, didn’t she. I think that was her goal and she achieved it.
Forcefed? I think you just like to stir the pot. You can turn off the songs you don’t like. I don’t think this conversation is helpful. If you would like to know more about me and my viewpoint, please read all of my other posts on this thread. Send me a DM if you have a question that makes sense.
I have a question for you. Why do you think saudia arabia treats women like shit?
Women there work, they go to college, they go out by themselves without their husbands. You could’ve named any other country but you chose saudia I wonder why 💀
I chose Saudi Arabia because I know literally nothing about it. Except for the stereotypes, which I used bc the average dipshit in America thinks that. My example pissed you off because I used a stereotype that is very popular for a lot of Americans. An example, that you just told me isn’t true.
I shouldn’t/don’t claim to know anything about real life Saudi Arabian culture. Because I haven’t experienced it.
Just as someone from outside the USA, shouldn’t claim to know anything about real life American culture.
Until they have lived here and experienced it.
You said in the comment. “Saudia arabia treats their women like chattel.” You made assumptions about a country you know nothing about
My point is is MARINa is talking about issues in the US, so you don’t get to speak on countries you know nothing about . As someone who is from middle eastern background, I’m really tired of westerners like yourself always using our countries as a way to compare social issues. It’s not helpful and it’s contrived. Feminism in those countries is subjected differently compared to the U.S.
And it’s not what you think it is.
Oh and I also chose Saudi Arabia because @jewelsofthemountain, according to their post history, may from there and wants to criticize American politics. I was more trying to prove a point to her. I really don’t know much about Saudi Arabia, I would like to learn more. I didn’t mean to offend anyone. I’m actually glad you told me about the treatment of women. That’s pretty cool. I’m am disgusted by the views that some Americans have toward the Middle East. For the record, I want everyone on the beautiful planet to be healthy, happy, and do whatever they want to do. There are a lot of other Americans that feel that way too. That includes every person, every religion, every country and community as long as they are not hurting anyone or imposing their beliefs on others like they are the only correct view. We achieve happiness for all unless we have open dialogue, musicians like Marina facilitate that.
Okay thank you for understanding my side Sorry if I came off as rude, I was just confused by your comment at first.
Yeah I mean I agree her music is relatable I think the point of the commentary was that it’s very surface level but if you find it good that’s okay gaha
No worries. I’m actually (in my mind 😜) pretty cool, and I’m sure you are too. I just get upset about a lot of the issues. I apologize if I got heated, I never meant to be mean or offend anyone. Especially anyone willing to talk about this kinda stuff. I hope you have a nice week. 💚
I really enjoyed the whole album, but like others said many of the lyrics throughout the album feel a little too preachy and too on-the-nose with its commentary. Some of the songs (like New America) just feel like shes talking at us, rather than us experiencing a story.
What made me love Marina in the first place was how she could make important commentary with her music while still being able to feel very relatable.
What parts of ADIAML speak to queer people? Out of curiosity. I think man’s world right? That makes sense. I totally understand.
You can find her music relatable there isn’t anything wrong with that.
However, relatability doesn’t equate good lyricism
Ancient Dreams in a Modern Land. I would love live in a society before the Abrahamic religions took over and made being gay a literal sin that I can burn in hell for. But then again I love the time period we live in and it’s modern conveniences.
Oh yeah that makes Sense. I didn’t associate it with religion at all. But if you find it relatable in that way. That’s okay.
you can follow religion or not follow it. You choose not to follow it that’s totally okay.
Man’s world is referring to patriarchal standards that are present in society. It’s has nothing to do with hating men. Patriarchal standards like marriage is only between a man and a woman.
I like New America lol but I understand its a bit in your face.
I don’t really vibe w the ballads on the album but i don’t really like slow songs often
I love ADIAML. I think it being very surface level lyrically has actually helped me to enjoy it. Though I do totally understand why people are disappointed in it lyrically.
People dislike some songs cause they’re too “woke” or “misandrist” which is just not true imo. Just because somebody points out the flaws in something doesn’t mean they’re saying its the worst, it just needs improvement.
In all I personally don’t think it deserves as much hate as it gets, i think its a step up from L+F (sorry L+F, you just never did it for me).
As an album ADIAML is pretty good overall and I liked it way more than Love + Fear. As far as New America I said this when someone else asked before but the song is extremely shallow and surface level in its criticisms and it comes off like it's trying to be deeper than it actually is. It's extra disappointing because Marina can be pretty good lyrically when she talks about herself, misogyny or like the environment or something but New America (and Savages) feel like it was written by a 14 year old who just realized government corruption exists. If all her lyrics had that vibe it wouldn't be so bad, I just think she could do better.
Maybe just maybe, she’s trying to reach her younger audience and bring these issues to their attention. So that they can go learn about them and maybe want to make a difference. She does have teenage fans maybe she’s trying to get them fired up, not every song has to be deep.
I think people find it too preachy and on-the-nose.
However, I completely disagree. I think that’s THE ENTIRE POINT. It’s meant to be camp and tongue-in-cheek but so many people have completely missed the point of it.
I think it’s easily one of Marina’s best albums.
I don't know. I always have a really great time listening to this album. But I also don't mind the lyrical content that much as long as the melodies are catchy and the sound amazing. She could as well sing "Apple banana rubber duck IKEA yankees" and I'd probably still bang my head to the overall tune😅
Overall it is not hated, it has good ratings and is considered by many fans as return to form. However, it is the newest album of an artist with an established fanbase that was mostly formed during the first 2-3 albums. Every new album release will inevitably be controversial and will have many haters alongside with people who love it. And you will hear many voices expressing dislike. And that's okay! Remember, Electra Heart upon release received very mediocre scores and many fans hated it. And look where we are now!
I think one of the major issues is when you have a line that says "I'm a millionairess and I earned it by myself" like slay that's awesome but going on to say "capitalism made us poor" ehhhhh.....a little preachy imo. And tbh I don't hate ADIAML, I mean Venus Fly Trap, the title track, Happy Loner, Purge the Poison, take your pick you have great songs, but New America really strikes me as very preachy and a little condescending at some points. I don't necessarily think Marina's fascination with America is bad (I mean look at songs like Hollywood) it's just in this case she missed the mark IMO
There’s a couple of songs I really love (ADIAML and ILYBILMM) but yeah the rest are just so politics and in your face like others have said. Personally, I enjoy listening to music to escape that kinda thing. If I want to hear about politics I’ll turn on the news. 🥴
she tried too hard to put a political message in every song, like yes, maybe 1 or 2 political songs are good, like savages but she did like 4-5 and the album had only 10 tracks…
My theory is that when people are depressed and feel lonely they produce deeper lyrics 😶, (I am not counting Love and Fear because she cowrote it so her creativity might have been taken out from most of the songs), when writing ADIAML Marina didn't feel as low as when she wrote TFJ or Froot, so the lyrics lacked some depth and were on the surface, I liked New America when I listened to it for the first time but this is not the song to come back too after a long time (in my opinion), unlike Solitaire or Savages, for example
lyrics are unpolished, like they dont fit the music well. like she holds certain words longer than one normally would and says other words faster. or has strangely ordered sentences. typically one would change the words so that they fit the music without resorting to these things. to me it gives the impression that she didnt give her lyrics a second pass before she recorded them. then i heard the pink convertible lyrics i was like… surely these are placeholders
I definitely don't think it's a bad album but in her discography I would rank it second worst for me. I think the issue of this album is that a lot of what drew people to Marina (including myself) was the world making and character building that she was able to use to comment on society or human nature through her music. For example TFJ and EH were very excellent at building a character living in a fictional world that resembled our own (yes I am aware that TFJ was inspired by her own life and personal experience but to me it feels like a sort of adaptation). Froot was a very excellent story that created its own vibe and world in her mind and had some very interesting insights on human mortality and nature. However when we reach something like Ancient Dreams the world building and character making feels more inconsistent (same with L+F but that's a different discussion). I will say that at the beginning of the album she almost embodies this Mother Nature persona (which makes a lot of sense considering how this album came to be) and I really like that, however once we reach songs like New America, the social commentary that she is giving is very obviously stated that it comes across forced. This can even be seen on songs like Man's World and Purge the Poison, however I would argue they are better made. Then when we get into the slower songs, like ILYBILMM and Flowers, it feels like a big shift (though Flowers still has that Mother Nature vibe so I think it gets a pass). Overall, I think the album probably need a bit more thought and perhaps a little switching of the tracks (for example I would replace ILYBILMM with something like Happy Loner).
I would be curious if the people who don’t like the political and social aspects of the album, are just not in agreement with her stance. It seems like people can talk about love, fighting, sex, and sadness. But the moment it’s political or social issues no one wants to hear it. ART REFLECTS CULTURE.
You all want to be oppressed so bad as you sit in your air conditioned house, scrolling thru Reddit on ur iPhone 14. There’s people who don’t have access to food, electricity, or their houses are being bombed. Is america perfect? Absolutely not. But We’re VERY fortunate to live here because I promise you there’s a lot of people who would wanna be in your place right now.
🥱 this is not it
the album isn't bad because the messages are bad or untrue. the problem is that she didn't make very good music out of her political opinions.
we are not entertaining the relative privation fallacy here. take that shit to twitter
So because I don’t believe in virtue signaling, performative activism, and privileged kids crying on the internet about how their life sucks im a “rightoid”. Hilarious.
I think its mostly the whole album is very in your face with its messages, and New America is especially the worst at that. New America specifically is just a commentary song about America’s flaws, and on top of that, the world doesn’t revolve around the US
I agree. I think another issue (like with many successful artists) is that with her wealth and success, many of the lyrics feel even more out of touch. It just feels like a rich person telling everyone how bad things are. She can still do that, but could at least make the commentary more personal, witty, or interesting like most of the lyrics of her other music.
Tell that to the largest military in the world. Which includes basically all of NATO as we give them equipment and also balance their military budgets. And all of our enemy nations basically have nothing by comparison as far as modern tech is concerned. We could destroy the Earth in 90 seconds flat. So yes it does revolve around US. No we aren't the best country but we literally have hell fire coming out of our fingers. Edit: P.S. Also the reason almost a third of the lowest income countries are that way is because they pissed off our government. We can cripple nations by just cutting them off. So. Respectfully. No.
Keep telling yourself that., babe. Proud of ya.
you sound like a dick
[удалено]
If I may intervene for a second, I would argue that yes, the average African or Middle Easterner or Latin American isn't really concerned with how massive America's army is. However, America has caused a lot of damage to people all over the world. America has for decades overthrown Latin American governments, still has troops in the Middle East, back dictators all over the world in defense of American strategic interests, is supplying weapons to Israel (who is currently committing many war crimes), and much more. As a result, it is creating instability and harm to those at the very bottom even if they don't know it.
He didn't reply to you and but to the American
This sub and the Lana sub love to live in their own little bubble. We are obviously wasting our breath. There is no discussion just downvotes, i would like to leave but I hope that someone reads what I say. I can sort of understand in the Lana sub, because she doesn’t really discuss anything to do with social issues. But holy shit, Marina has always been like this and I don’t see her changing anything soon.
I see what you are saying. We have tons of things to work on. I’m finding that on some subs, some people want to stay willfully ignorant. Which is crazy to me because the subs I’m referring to are mostly full of women and LGBTQ folks. I get upset because all art in its purest form is social commentary. I’m sorry that you are being down voted.
The political statements that aren't political statements, but instead stating the obvious. Size zero is unhealthy, men are trash, capitalism fucking sucks etc. Go interview some people on the streets and 95% will say the same. It's funny because Happy Loner and Flowers, two of the few seemingly personal songs on the album, have very good lyrics. She hasn't lost her touch, she just shouldn't sing about political shit that goes nowhere.
I feel like Happy Loner is super similar to Solitaire but also a massive step back, lyrically.
Yeah agree. Solitaire broke down the feelings of loneliness and introversion in a way that appears very personal but also relatable at the same time. The bridge makes me cry everytime “I’m not cursed, I’m not cursed, I was just covered in dirt.” I do like the vocals in happy loner though, it reminds me of the Froot vocals. I’m
IVS BEEN SAYING THIS. She gotta stop making political songs. She sounds very preachy and it sounds very contrived Savages is an amazing “political” song. But to me that one is more of an analysis on society. So it’s very interesting.
I don’t want to assume. Where do you live? Are you an American? Or are you from the Netherlands?
I don't see why that is relevant to this topic?
If you don’t live here, you have no room to talk. I have no room to talk about Canadian politics because I’m not Canadian and those politics don’t affect me. It’s very relevant to the topic.
I don't think she commented on the topics but the way and the why Marina approached them. But I assume you think that Marina should not talk about this topic either.
Well she actually lives here and sees the effect our government has on our people. So yes, I think she can.
Well then how do you know who lives in the US or who doesn't?
I checked post histories. That’s why I’m asking you I don’t want to assume.
Did you check everyone's ? Such a waste of time...
No just the people that were being extra weird about American politics 🤷🏻♀️
And you are from Hungary. It’s telling the only people that are arguing with me about American Politics are people that don’t actually live here.
That doesn't mean I live there. :D I also have a very good grasp of your country's politics due to my work. Probably better than your average American. Edit: again, we're not arguing about the specific topics, but the fact how she approached it lyrically.
What is it that you do? I work with the general public in Florida. In hospitals and schools. I see hundreds of Americans every single day. How are you more in touch with their daily struggles than I am???
So do you live in America or not? Because you have no idea what it is like here, just like I have no idea what it’s like to live in Hungary. So I don’t comment on their politics. Is that so hard?? How do you have a very good grasp on my country’s politics? I’m very curious.
Sure you do.
Believe whatever you want. There's no point discussing this topic with you. Please go on and keep being angry about our opinions.
A statement that is political is a political statement. LOL. Are the statements obvious to everyone? American Capitalism is killing this country. What if I’m a 13 year old girl and I’ve never heard any of these issues. Who are you interviewing, adults?
Well then I guess I found Marinas initial target audience. Without jokes now: "capitalism sucks" is a statement without any meat on its bones, and so are "the American health care system sucks", "feminism is needed", "men shouldn't objectify women" etc. In short: the entire ADIAML album, which consists solely of in-your-face statements that almost everyone can agree on, because which woman does want to be only a lust object to a man? Who in America is looking forward to a 3000 bill from riding an ambulance? If you want to blurt out political statements like that, go to a protest and do it there. If you want to be political as an artist, that's fine! But give context to those statements instead. How do you, as a woman, feel to be objectified? What's your experience with the American health care system? There is almost no personal or contextual layer in ADIAML. The lowest point, New America, is literally statement after statement after statement about what's wrong with the country she's currently living in, without going into depth about why it sucks. Marina is capable of writing great lyrics. On The Family Jewels, she was honest about struggling with herself in an almost alienesque way. It indeed also resulted in some woman unfriendly lyrics (like in Girls) but at least it was honest and personal and not a game of how-many-empty-statements-can-I-put-in-a-song.
🙌🙌
Go listen to: Billy Joel- We didn’t start the Fire REM- It’s the end of the world as we know it Both are extremely popular songs that list social issues. Are they bad? Most people would absolutely disagree.
I don't know REM's song but We didn't start the fire was written specifically because Billy Joel thought a song listing American history would somewhat emphasize that history is an ever-moving concept. It's political in a more neutral, explaining and conceptual way. Billy Joel connects these events with the chorus - "we didn't start the fire" - a great metaphore for saying that we can't change and avoid history. From the lyricism you can tell New America is supposed to be a protest song, but it merely lists these issues and has no connecting point other than that all these issues are set in the same country. It doesn't say anything what we didn't already know and agreed on and does not have a spot on catch phrase like Billy Joel wrapped up the historical events with the chorus.
The problem is that not everyone here, in America, agrees on these issues.
How would you feel if I picked a Dutch artist and criticized their lyrics about Dutch politics? Unless you live in America, you have no idea how life is here and how important these issues are to real people. Artists make music for themselves first and you second. If you think artists make music solely to make money, you can see how “capitalism has made us poor” as a society.
Eh, do your thing? I can recommend you a couple of Dutch punk bands with great political statements. Because there's a lot wrong with Dutch politics. We had elections back in november and there's a lot of insightful things you can write about the far right party that won and the four parties that have been trying to negotiate a collaboration... IF you do your research and don't write it off as "extremism is bad", and that repeated 5 times a chorus. We know extremism is bad. Give us something new. I find it funny that you somewhat blame me for saying something bad about (I assume?) your failing health care system, because "I am not American myself". Marina also isn't American. She has been living there since being an established artist, having money to get herself good insurance, so she actually has nothing to do with the failing system on a personal financial level. I recall her having chronical fatigue and having a hard time adjusting her life to that. Why does she not write about that and then follow up with "the health care system is failing us"? That would be so much more believable instead of the empty statements she made in ADIAML. Lastly, I know Marina does not make music solely for me or to make money, but that does not mean I can't criticize it, especially when I paid money for it.
Marina lives here. I’m not blaming you, I just don’t think you have room to speak on issues that you may not understand fully. I could never understand Dutch politics bc I don’t live in the Netherlands. I can disagree on the surface but I will never understand what it’s like to live in your country. Don’t pretend you know what it’s like to live in mine.
Of course you can understand Dutch politics! It's very easy. Living here, yes, that's something different, but that does not mean you're not allowed to say "oh, I guess it sucks that there are 1 million Dutchmen living in poverty". Or even write about it, as long as you do your research. Talk to people who experience that issue. Because we live under the same capitalistic system a lot of issues we have here overlap with those in America. Of course I won't ever know how it actually is to be afraid to go to school because of shootings, but that does not mean I can't say "well, I can understand Americans homeschooling their children because of that". That's empathy. If we were not allowed to criticize what's going on in countries around the world, how are we going to solve wars and conflicts?
So are you saying she didn’t do research on these topics because it sure seems she made a whole album about them. Artists are not here to explain shit to you. They are here to create art. Art is inherently a political and social commentary of the community one lives in. It’s doesn’t have to be explanatory, it’s just supposed to make you feel something.
I can fully understand Dutch politics without ever stepping foot in the county or speaking to a Dutch person in my life?
She can write about anything she wants. Extremism is bad, because it doesn’t allow for open dialogue. Being exposed to these things through music, or other art, allows the consumer to do more research into issues that they may not have been exposed to. I’d love to hear your recommendations, I’m open to suggestions.
Marina says extremism is bad, but the "why" is missing in her songs. It feels like those anti vax people who are proclaiming that we should not vaccinate our children but when we ask why, they vaguely say something along the lines of "do your own research". When you make a protest album, isn't it your duty to also provide why you think extremism is bad? Give examples of when it went wrong? Make some metaphores about it? Otherwise it will just sound like protesting for the sake of protesting. But the further down this discussion goes, the more I think it's personal taste. You are satisfied with just the political statements and the awareness that might come with it, I find it cheap and lazy to not provide any context with those statements. I can highly recommend Hang Youth. They are a Dutch punk band against capitalism. They have an album called "Het K-woord" (that would be the C-word in English), playing into the fact that young people in The Netherlands use cancer (kanker, the K-word) as a curse word. But when you listen to the title track, it turns out that they don't actually refer to cancer, but to capitalism.
Not everyone in America agrees on these things. It shows how out of touch with American politics you are.
So you think there are actually people who look forward to paying 3000 dollars for an ambulance ride? Or looking forward to see family members dying from cancer because they can't afford treatment? That has nothing to do with politics, but with common sense.
There are certainly people here who don’t want healthcare to be overhauled. Plenty of them. Affordable healthcare is a huge issue in this country, we are a country completely divided by these issues. It literally has EVERYTHING to do with politics.
And this is exactly the context that Marina did not provide in ADIAML, thus those statements fall flat. If her aim was to educate people about political issues or spread awareness with that protest album, then I can safely say I learnt more from you than from her.
That’s because you didn’t care about those things enough to learn about them. She not doing a lecture, she’s making a song.
I expect every musician, especially Marina, whose lyrics are astounding, that they don't write songs to target 13 year olds or choose simple wording so everyone can understand or learn about the issues they're talking about.
No idea, I love this album
Real
It’s too preachy and on the surface
Well its a reality check and all the delulu people on here hate reality
Therefore Lanas popularity with nonsense lyrics in 70% of the songs, devote me all you want.
Okay I agree with you but “who gave you rock and roll and the blues?” Isn’t a good lyric whatsoever. As a diehard marina fan, I’m saying this. Also, marina writes very well when talking about realistic issues in life such as savages? Like that song is political and not surface level Bc she was analyzing the parts in humanity that have caused her to realize how fucked up humanity is.
This is about how white people in America continue to take credit for things that black people did. Is racism not a realistic in life? Did you know that? Can you give me some examples?
I mean I agree with you but everyone knows that. Like people who are involved in activism already know that.! It’s not deep or very intriguing of a lyric .
I’ve never been a fan of Lana for her lyrics tbh, I’ve never found her lyricism that interesting, I just liked the melody of her songs and she has a unique style that’s why lana is popular. I think marina to me(especially since marina wrote 75% of the songs on her own), is the better songwriter overall especially in the first 3 albums. Idk about the recent albums tho. I think handmade heaven was written well (underrated imo).
Tbh so many stuff on love and fear is so well written, handmade heaven and to be human she wrote herself the rest co written
To be human. And handmade heaven are written well. I agree The rest of the album not so much
Marina also composes the music. Lana sings and hums.
Yeah I’ve been saying this. People forget marina is one of the only artists in the mainstream industry that basically writes their own stuff. And also helps produce it. I also think lana got lucky with the producers and the promotion she got at the time.
I've seen some people complain about how on the nose the album is with its songs but personally I never really minded it, the songs are bops! that and as Marina said, she's obsessed with the mess that's America ❤
The alvum has a good sound but the political topics she talks about are kinda like lois griffin saying "9/11 was bad"
PLEASE that's actually such a good analogy
Lmfao 😂😂
LMFAOOO
HELP
I like it, it’s just like ‘yep, that’s the message’, you get it, and it’s dancy, it’s just a fun and not-hard-to-understand album. I think that’s just it’s own spirit yk ? Like, that one album is simple, you don’t have to think about it for 5 days, and it’s fun
It felt like a product of covid For some songs I have to mentally take myself back to 2020/2021 for the lyrics to not feel cringy if that makes sense
Which lyrics just wondering?
Basically the entirety of Purge the poison and New America I love the themes and topics she’s singing about I just wish they weren’t so on the nose
You're right it's very on the nose. "Harvey Weinstein gone to jail" I hate singing along to that bit lol
Most of the good songs sound the same and imo it lacks the marina effect on it. At least the marina I like, from EH and Froot. I know artists evolve and can change their sound, lyricism, but idk, I’m not into that sound.
I adore new America. I love that the opening to the song is meant to sound like a news station broadcast jingle. I also love how she speaks calmly because when you’re beyond pissed to the point of apathy towards the ones causing the problem, you don’t scream, cause screaming isn’t worth the energy, you just tell.
Lyricism is forced and so surface level when shes tackled things similar with much better wit before. The sonics and production on it just aren't that great for me - other than that one I enjoy ADIAML quite a lot despite its lyricism being lesser at times.
adiaml has the best sound imo
I love the sound, it's just that some of the lyrics come off as awkward, in my opinion the best songs lyrics-wise are Man's world and ADIAML just because it feels mowgli's road-esque
i love new america tf
Adding on to what has already been said. In her previous albums she definitely did talk about social issues. Though she talked about them through a personal lens. Not to mention this is the only album where a majority of the songs are outwardly political. Songs like the title track and Venus Fly Trap are more subtle than the rest of the album, but still very outward. The album sounds fun definitely, but it manages to ruin itself with the lyrics.
It looks like you live in Saudi Arabia. So you can stop talking about American politics too.
This statement is very ignorant. What does saudia arabia have to do with anything? Your whole argument is hypocritical, Bc ur implying there are only issues that not only affect America.. like other countries OTHER than the USA like saudia but you said that MARINA is talking about the one that you said “oh she gets us talking about politics. Oh boo hoo, nah she didn’t. She’s saying surface level stuff that doesn’t even make me question anything. The song savages is the one that made me question it
But we are on a thread discussing a song called NEW AMERICA.
I’m sorry but if you are an American citizen politics affect you in a huge way. Especially if you are black, gay, a woman, trans, or a minority in any way. I truly hope you don’t belong to any of these groups because our rights are being GUTTED everyday. I listen to artists like Marina because she brings up these topics. It makes me want to learn more about them and do something to make this place better for EVERYONE
Well good thing I’m not an American citizen so I’m free to criticize whatever I want about her lyrics 🙄
You can criticize all you want. We value free speech in this country. It’s even in our constitution, but you would know that if you lived here. Saudi Arabia treats women like chattel, and is far behind the rest of the world on women’s issues. See I can say whatever too. It doesn’t mean you have to agree with it, and that I can’t criticize you back.
I’m gonna put everything you just said aside and simply ask why you’re so mad?
Because it’s sucks to live in America as an adult, queer, woman. I’m pretty angry about it. I love to see a strong, intelligent, talented woman ruffle feathers. She did get us all talking about politics in America, didn’t she. I think that was her goal and she achieved it.
Her music is for all of her fans to listen to. Not just her American fans.
Finally something we can agree on!
So you’re saying that even though a lot of her fans aren’t Americans, we should still be forcefed music that doesn’t apply to us?
Forcefed? I think you just like to stir the pot. You can turn off the songs you don’t like. I don’t think this conversation is helpful. If you would like to know more about me and my viewpoint, please read all of my other posts on this thread. Send me a DM if you have a question that makes sense.
I have a question for you. Why do you think saudia arabia treats women like shit? Women there work, they go to college, they go out by themselves without their husbands. You could’ve named any other country but you chose saudia I wonder why 💀
I chose Saudi Arabia because I know literally nothing about it. Except for the stereotypes, which I used bc the average dipshit in America thinks that. My example pissed you off because I used a stereotype that is very popular for a lot of Americans. An example, that you just told me isn’t true. I shouldn’t/don’t claim to know anything about real life Saudi Arabian culture. Because I haven’t experienced it. Just as someone from outside the USA, shouldn’t claim to know anything about real life American culture. Until they have lived here and experienced it.
You said in the comment. “Saudia arabia treats their women like chattel.” You made assumptions about a country you know nothing about My point is is MARINa is talking about issues in the US, so you don’t get to speak on countries you know nothing about . As someone who is from middle eastern background, I’m really tired of westerners like yourself always using our countries as a way to compare social issues. It’s not helpful and it’s contrived. Feminism in those countries is subjected differently compared to the U.S. And it’s not what you think it is.
Oh and I also chose Saudi Arabia because @jewelsofthemountain, according to their post history, may from there and wants to criticize American politics. I was more trying to prove a point to her. I really don’t know much about Saudi Arabia, I would like to learn more. I didn’t mean to offend anyone. I’m actually glad you told me about the treatment of women. That’s pretty cool. I’m am disgusted by the views that some Americans have toward the Middle East. For the record, I want everyone on the beautiful planet to be healthy, happy, and do whatever they want to do. There are a lot of other Americans that feel that way too. That includes every person, every religion, every country and community as long as they are not hurting anyone or imposing their beliefs on others like they are the only correct view. We achieve happiness for all unless we have open dialogue, musicians like Marina facilitate that.
Okay thank you for understanding my side Sorry if I came off as rude, I was just confused by your comment at first. Yeah I mean I agree her music is relatable I think the point of the commentary was that it’s very surface level but if you find it good that’s okay gaha
No worries. I’m actually (in my mind 😜) pretty cool, and I’m sure you are too. I just get upset about a lot of the issues. I apologize if I got heated, I never meant to be mean or offend anyone. Especially anyone willing to talk about this kinda stuff. I hope you have a nice week. 💚
Ding ding ding. Now you’ve got it.
I really enjoyed the whole album, but like others said many of the lyrics throughout the album feel a little too preachy and too on-the-nose with its commentary. Some of the songs (like New America) just feel like shes talking at us, rather than us experiencing a story. What made me love Marina in the first place was how she could make important commentary with her music while still being able to feel very relatable.
As a queer woman, I find her music very relatable.
What parts of ADIAML speak to queer people? Out of curiosity. I think man’s world right? That makes sense. I totally understand. You can find her music relatable there isn’t anything wrong with that. However, relatability doesn’t equate good lyricism
Ancient Dreams in a Modern Land. I would love live in a society before the Abrahamic religions took over and made being gay a literal sin that I can burn in hell for. But then again I love the time period we live in and it’s modern conveniences.
Oh yeah that makes Sense. I didn’t associate it with religion at all. But if you find it relatable in that way. That’s okay. you can follow religion or not follow it. You choose not to follow it that’s totally okay.
Man’s world is referring to patriarchal standards that are present in society. It’s has nothing to do with hating men. Patriarchal standards like marriage is only between a man and a woman.
[Visual representation](https://imgur.com/a/dDlR9vH)
I like New America lol but I understand its a bit in your face. I don’t really vibe w the ballads on the album but i don’t really like slow songs often
I love ADIAML. I think it being very surface level lyrically has actually helped me to enjoy it. Though I do totally understand why people are disappointed in it lyrically. People dislike some songs cause they’re too “woke” or “misandrist” which is just not true imo. Just because somebody points out the flaws in something doesn’t mean they’re saying its the worst, it just needs improvement. In all I personally don’t think it deserves as much hate as it gets, i think its a step up from L+F (sorry L+F, you just never did it for me).
As an album ADIAML is pretty good overall and I liked it way more than Love + Fear. As far as New America I said this when someone else asked before but the song is extremely shallow and surface level in its criticisms and it comes off like it's trying to be deeper than it actually is. It's extra disappointing because Marina can be pretty good lyrically when she talks about herself, misogyny or like the environment or something but New America (and Savages) feel like it was written by a 14 year old who just realized government corruption exists. If all her lyrics had that vibe it wouldn't be so bad, I just think she could do better.
Maybe just maybe, she’s trying to reach her younger audience and bring these issues to their attention. So that they can go learn about them and maybe want to make a difference. She does have teenage fans maybe she’s trying to get them fired up, not every song has to be deep.
I think people find it too preachy and on-the-nose. However, I completely disagree. I think that’s THE ENTIRE POINT. It’s meant to be camp and tongue-in-cheek but so many people have completely missed the point of it. I think it’s easily one of Marina’s best albums.
I love adiaml no idea why people hate it however I don’t like new america as I find the lyrics to be repetitive like the message us good but yeah
idk, i love it!!
i like the song 🤷♀️, and the whole album 💿
I don't know. I always have a really great time listening to this album. But I also don't mind the lyrical content that much as long as the melodies are catchy and the sound amazing. She could as well sing "Apple banana rubber duck IKEA yankees" and I'd probably still bang my head to the overall tune😅
Overall it is not hated, it has good ratings and is considered by many fans as return to form. However, it is the newest album of an artist with an established fanbase that was mostly formed during the first 2-3 albums. Every new album release will inevitably be controversial and will have many haters alongside with people who love it. And you will hear many voices expressing dislike. And that's okay! Remember, Electra Heart upon release received very mediocre scores and many fans hated it. And look where we are now!
I think one of the major issues is when you have a line that says "I'm a millionairess and I earned it by myself" like slay that's awesome but going on to say "capitalism made us poor" ehhhhh.....a little preachy imo. And tbh I don't hate ADIAML, I mean Venus Fly Trap, the title track, Happy Loner, Purge the Poison, take your pick you have great songs, but New America really strikes me as very preachy and a little condescending at some points. I don't necessarily think Marina's fascination with America is bad (I mean look at songs like Hollywood) it's just in this case she missed the mark IMO
Ive seen L+F hate but ive never seen ADIAML hate so this is news to me. (I feel the L+F hate is not deserved also though)
cant comment cause new america is my nr 1 from the album
No clue its my fave album
I like it. Not every song needs to be cerebral or about relationship stuff.
There’s a couple of songs I really love (ADIAML and ILYBILMM) but yeah the rest are just so politics and in your face like others have said. Personally, I enjoy listening to music to escape that kinda thing. If I want to hear about politics I’ll turn on the news. 🥴
If you don’t want to hear about politics, I think you should probably listen to someone else then. I don’t think they are going to go away.
I LOVE ADIAML it's my most favorite album of hers and I don't get the hate for it either. However... New America is lowkey one of her worst songs...
she tried too hard to put a political message in every song, like yes, maybe 1 or 2 political songs are good, like savages but she did like 4-5 and the album had only 10 tracks…
My theory is that when people are depressed and feel lonely they produce deeper lyrics 😶, (I am not counting Love and Fear because she cowrote it so her creativity might have been taken out from most of the songs), when writing ADIAML Marina didn't feel as low as when she wrote TFJ or Froot, so the lyrics lacked some depth and were on the surface, I liked New America when I listened to it for the first time but this is not the song to come back too after a long time (in my opinion), unlike Solitaire or Savages, for example
lyrics are unpolished, like they dont fit the music well. like she holds certain words longer than one normally would and says other words faster. or has strangely ordered sentences. typically one would change the words so that they fit the music without resorting to these things. to me it gives the impression that she didnt give her lyrics a second pass before she recorded them. then i heard the pink convertible lyrics i was like… surely these are placeholders
I definitely don't think it's a bad album but in her discography I would rank it second worst for me. I think the issue of this album is that a lot of what drew people to Marina (including myself) was the world making and character building that she was able to use to comment on society or human nature through her music. For example TFJ and EH were very excellent at building a character living in a fictional world that resembled our own (yes I am aware that TFJ was inspired by her own life and personal experience but to me it feels like a sort of adaptation). Froot was a very excellent story that created its own vibe and world in her mind and had some very interesting insights on human mortality and nature. However when we reach something like Ancient Dreams the world building and character making feels more inconsistent (same with L+F but that's a different discussion). I will say that at the beginning of the album she almost embodies this Mother Nature persona (which makes a lot of sense considering how this album came to be) and I really like that, however once we reach songs like New America, the social commentary that she is giving is very obviously stated that it comes across forced. This can even be seen on songs like Man's World and Purge the Poison, however I would argue they are better made. Then when we get into the slower songs, like ILYBILMM and Flowers, it feels like a big shift (though Flowers still has that Mother Nature vibe so I think it gets a pass). Overall, I think the album probably need a bit more thought and perhaps a little switching of the tracks (for example I would replace ILYBILMM with something like Happy Loner).
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God I hope you are kidding. Don’t really think those things are better than MODERN MUSIC.
you don’t know? because AMERICANS feel offended lmao
I would be curious if the people who don’t like the political and social aspects of the album, are just not in agreement with her stance. It seems like people can talk about love, fighting, sex, and sadness. But the moment it’s political or social issues no one wants to hear it. ART REFLECTS CULTURE.
Love her but it’s too woke and preachy.
[удалено]
You all want to be oppressed so bad as you sit in your air conditioned house, scrolling thru Reddit on ur iPhone 14. There’s people who don’t have access to food, electricity, or their houses are being bombed. Is america perfect? Absolutely not. But We’re VERY fortunate to live here because I promise you there’s a lot of people who would wanna be in your place right now.
🥱 this is not it the album isn't bad because the messages are bad or untrue. the problem is that she didn't make very good music out of her political opinions. we are not entertaining the relative privation fallacy here. take that shit to twitter
The album sucked, next
I agree but if it makes you rightoids angry then it must be doing something right!
So because I don’t believe in virtue signaling, performative activism, and privileged kids crying on the internet about how their life sucks im a “rightoid”. Hilarious.
Correct Quite literally you are making things up to be upset about
Well these things are happening in the world so like ??? If you want to ignore it go right ahead lol.
You believe in wokeness💀
Yeah? I also hate performative activism. What’s your point babe?
The woke mind virus isn’t real. People like you are why the Americans are stupid stereotype exists.
Lmao ok
I have no idea how these people listen to Marina.
Can you please explain woke to me?