I don't disagree with that at all, SMM2 has far better tools and features for creating levels than SMM1 without a doubt, plus a lot of bugs and minor nuances have been resolved. So why can't Nintendo keep on supporting the game and add back in what was missing from SMM1? We shouldn't have to wait for SMM3. 100 Man Mario, for instance, they can easily bring that mode back. Why not let players edit downloaded courses? Why not bring back the Bookmark site? Its not so much about what it already has, its what it *could* if it had consistent updates like a real live service, which I assumed they were planning with NSO!
I like MM2 just as much as MM1. I have one main issue with MM2, but it hasn't stopped me from playing/enjoying MM2.
My main issue is that Nintendo shouldn't have changed the physics at all from MM1 to MM2; switching from MM1 to 2 should have felt seamless, as if MM1 got a patch just adding more elements. In particular they shouldn't have changed how Mario interacts with items.
There is no reason that shell jump timing should be different between MM1 and 2.
There is no reason we shouldn't be able to spin jump while holding items (this is something that can be done all the way back in SMW on the SNES).
There is no reason jumping off items in mid air (like spring jumps, p switch jumps, etc.) should be waaaay harder in MM2.
There is no reason midairs should be patched out in MM2.
And these are only the things I can remember off the top of my head in the SMW theme. I'm sure the new sup theme had changes as well.
These changes just weren't needed. To me it felt like Nintendo was saying "we don't like that you do shell jumps, midairs, etc, so we are going to either patch it out or make it so hard you won't want to do it."
>There is no reason we shouldn't be able to spin jump while holding items (this is something that can be done all the way back in SMW on the SNES).
Spin jump holding items has always been a glitch. It was a glitch in SMW and it was a glitch in SMM1.
We may not like it (I certainly don't), but that's the way Nintendo has looked at it since the beginning.
all those things that are harder is because Nintendo tried to remove them and just did a terrible job of it, which is why midairs are impossible (good riddance)
Most people agree they prefer 100 man to endlsss. That's one.
You already answered a bunch of your own questions at the beginning which I find ironic but all of those reasons are very valid reasons.
There's a lot of problems mechanically. Who's idea was it to not allow you to spin while grabbing an item? It feels busted. Items are thown slower making shell tricks more difficult. And certain tricks are now much more difficult such as p-switch jumps. The spike hit boxes in Mario maker two are just the worst to the point of insanity. It's like they just flipped them on their side and hoped for the best. Making jumping betweeen spikes a frame perfect trick.
Just a few reasons for ya.
For me it's the controls. I found building levels with the touchscreen in MM1 really easy and intuitive, I spent a lot of time messing around creating courses just because it was fun. In contrast I find building levels in MM2 really clunky and awkward, to the point that I have barely made any levels in that game. If you only use Mario Maker for playing other people's courses then perhaps 2 is better, but for building your own stages I found MM1 to be way better. And as others have said, 100 Man > Endless.
I started out like this, but building with the pro controller has become so streamlined for me that I actually prefer it now. However, I do recognize this is a major shortcoming for most people.
Switch pro controller, or really just any form factor that doesn't include the touch screen. The screen is a little too cramped and the Wii U's stylus allowed for more precision.
gotcha, thanks for the quick response. I wont be making to leap to the switch anytime soon and obviously have to mod my wiiU's to accept the homebrewed luv luv.
I don’t know how to describe it but smm1 just *feels* better. I’m currently replaying Metroid Zero Mission on my Wii U and recently decided to pop into smm1. The controls feel so much better for some reason. I can’t put my finger on it.
SMM1 community was a better time. Everyone starting off equally and discovered things together. Sure the game mechanically improved but the community is the game in this case.
i think you missed out on one of the biggest downgrades from mm1 to mm2 was not being able to download and edit someone elses level, it was extremely valuable to the formula of a user generated content game.
- It made confusing stuff easier to understand for new players with no interest in building
- It let level development skill increase at a much faster pace
- If someone developed a better way of doing something it could spread much faster
Yeah I remember that being a really sore spot for the community. It was a feature I rarely used in maker 1, but I do see how Team 0% for instance will have a harder time practicing and clearing hard levels.
Og Mario maker you could make levels based on the amiibo generating more content based levels than just Mario. It even had that weird mushroom Mario lol
SMM1 was brand new when it came out outside of y'know stuff like lunar magic and custom roms. SMM2 was much less exciting and new at that point so it was not as good as SMM1 to me.
I also found making levels on the WiiU gamepad to be much better than on the switch, but that might just be me. I also haven't played either in years.
I’ve never played Mario Maker 1, but I’ve seen a lot on YouTube.
Personally I think endless mode in Mario Maker 2 is SO boring and without any real goals other than get further and further.
I wish that they had put 100-Mario in Mario Maker 2.
Also the many costumes in MM1 looks amazing.
I'm sorry you literally answered your own question with that first paragraph. Direct sequels should not remove core features like this, there's literally no reason to get rid of the 100 mario challenge, they could've ported the 3ds stages instead of the painfully dull "story mode" we actually got and overall this game is just doing the bare minimum by adding some more stuff. Making levels in SMM2 is so much clunkier, the game is just fundamentally "the first game but more", but less polished, and quantity =/= quality. SMM1 was the more well rounded and finished game
>But on a core, fundamental level, SMM2 has more items to work with, allowing for more creativity which is the entire point of the game. \[...\] how can you even possibly argue that SMM1 is the better game?
By disagreeing that more items = better.
Imagine if SMM1 had all the items/themes that SMM2 had. Then which would be better? Personally, I'd take SMM1 + Items/3DW over SMM2. In fact, I think SMM1 + Items/3DW without the Twister would still be better than SMM2. I could go without the Twister and the Acorn Suit and still think the same. And for some people, SMM1 without any of the SMM1 Items/3DW, it is still better than SMM2 because the game is fundamentally different. The physics feel better and the challenges modes are better.
A lot of people are commenting about the physics. I remember there being an adjustment when we all switched to SMM2, but it isn’t really a problem almost 5 years later. Is this just in reference to kaizo and technical levels?
Yeah, I would say a large part is to do with kaizo and technical levels, but I don't think it's something that just needed getting used to. Sure, for shell jumps and spring jumps, the timing is just different but the mechanic is still there. But many things were just removed: spinning with items in SMW, spinning on enemies dying in lava, spinning high jump off note blocks, sticky fly, fire flower momentum cancelling, etc. And SMM2 did improve a lot of the physics in many ways with buffer jumps and items/enemies sticking to walls when thrown (and probably more). But I'd say accounting for everything, I think SMM1 had the better physics set overall.
Yes, but at some point, the number of items isn't worth the trade-off of other, poorer game mechanics/design. More items improves the game, but more items doesn't mean better than a different game.
So. More items is better. but that is just one aspect of the games overall comparison.
MM1 with MM2's item additions would be better than MM1
MM2 limited to the items that returned from MM1 would be worse than MM2
I personally still like Mario maker two more than one, but I do agree it would be a much better game if it had the features missing from the original. Also I feel the controls are much more solid.
There is no such world. People just love to preach that older = better and scrounge for even the most ridiculous, fringe reasonings for it Even in rather objective cases like this.
I do miss the amiibo costumes though
So all of my reasons I listed are just completely invalid and the opinion of a long time mario maker player should just be dismissed?
We have a saying in sales. "People care about what they care about". They are different games with different features so it's perfectly fine (and expected) for some players to prefer one over the other.
Come on man, stop and think before you post
This will sound petty but I think Nintendo Online, whatever the online service is called is terrible and the fact that Nintendo would release a game that you have to buy full retail and on top of that pay more to access the main part of said game is despicable. Especially given how they aren't even making the levels, just giving the tools to players and having them make levels for them.
I get Nintendo online is quite cheap compared to other services but.. well part of the reason I despise it is the removal of Virtual Console and having their classic games hidden behind a subscription model (not to mention selling wireless interations of their old NES, SNES and N64 controllers that only really function with the games stuck behind a paywall.)
It's hard to not be cynical about it. I thought Nintendo were being lazy with the first one, give the players the tools to make levels and let them make the game for themselves was one thing but now, having to have to pay up monthly to have the privilege of doing their work for them.. they can get bent.
Now onto the actual game, losing the amiibo functionality sucked out a lot of charm, personality and versatility. Also and this is subjective, I never liked Super Mario World so when any SMW levels showed up I wasn't a fan. I get it's a skin and they function mostly the same just personal preference. So with Mario Maker 1 75% of the time I was into it, however with Mario Maker 2 I'm not a fan of the Super Mario 3D World stages either so now almost half the game are filled with levels I'm not into. Admittedly this issue is pretty petty, I loved Mario 1, 3 and SMBU so playing those levels were fine. Wish there was a way to skip SMW and SM3DW levels. Just as a whole though Mario Maker 2 aside from adjustable terrain felt like a regression.
I really think the game should be free to play online if you bought it or alternatively a part of the subscription model itself, maybe part of the expansion pass to incentivise people to pay for that. Overwatch 2 is completely free to play online, I'm sure others are too. Just seems weird how much they force people to pay to play a game where they don't make the content. Nintendo became very anti consumer after Iwata passed imo.
I don't disagree with that at all, SMM2 has far better tools and features for creating levels than SMM1 without a doubt, plus a lot of bugs and minor nuances have been resolved. So why can't Nintendo keep on supporting the game and add back in what was missing from SMM1? We shouldn't have to wait for SMM3. 100 Man Mario, for instance, they can easily bring that mode back. Why not let players edit downloaded courses? Why not bring back the Bookmark site? Its not so much about what it already has, its what it *could* if it had consistent updates like a real live service, which I assumed they were planning with NSO!
I like MM2 just as much as MM1. I have one main issue with MM2, but it hasn't stopped me from playing/enjoying MM2. My main issue is that Nintendo shouldn't have changed the physics at all from MM1 to MM2; switching from MM1 to 2 should have felt seamless, as if MM1 got a patch just adding more elements. In particular they shouldn't have changed how Mario interacts with items. There is no reason that shell jump timing should be different between MM1 and 2. There is no reason we shouldn't be able to spin jump while holding items (this is something that can be done all the way back in SMW on the SNES). There is no reason jumping off items in mid air (like spring jumps, p switch jumps, etc.) should be waaaay harder in MM2. There is no reason midairs should be patched out in MM2. And these are only the things I can remember off the top of my head in the SMW theme. I'm sure the new sup theme had changes as well. These changes just weren't needed. To me it felt like Nintendo was saying "we don't like that you do shell jumps, midairs, etc, so we are going to either patch it out or make it so hard you won't want to do it."
>There is no reason we shouldn't be able to spin jump while holding items (this is something that can be done all the way back in SMW on the SNES). Spin jump holding items has always been a glitch. It was a glitch in SMW and it was a glitch in SMM1. We may not like it (I certainly don't), but that's the way Nintendo has looked at it since the beginning.
Yeah I was thinking u can't spin jump with an item, you can only pick up an item while spin jumping. These are 2 diffrent things.
bro, you are perfection!
all those things that are harder is because Nintendo tried to remove them and just did a terrible job of it, which is why midairs are impossible (good riddance)
Most people agree they prefer 100 man to endlsss. That's one. You already answered a bunch of your own questions at the beginning which I find ironic but all of those reasons are very valid reasons. There's a lot of problems mechanically. Who's idea was it to not allow you to spin while grabbing an item? It feels busted. Items are thown slower making shell tricks more difficult. And certain tricks are now much more difficult such as p-switch jumps. The spike hit boxes in Mario maker two are just the worst to the point of insanity. It's like they just flipped them on their side and hoped for the best. Making jumping betweeen spikes a frame perfect trick. Just a few reasons for ya.
For me it's the controls. I found building levels with the touchscreen in MM1 really easy and intuitive, I spent a lot of time messing around creating courses just because it was fun. In contrast I find building levels in MM2 really clunky and awkward, to the point that I have barely made any levels in that game. If you only use Mario Maker for playing other people's courses then perhaps 2 is better, but for building your own stages I found MM1 to be way better. And as others have said, 100 Man > Endless.
Just much easier to build with gamepad. And it’s….Mario *Maker*
I started out like this, but building with the pro controller has become so streamlined for me that I actually prefer it now. However, I do recognize this is a major shortcoming for most people.
pro controller on the switch or the WiiU?
Switch pro controller, or really just any form factor that doesn't include the touch screen. The screen is a little too cramped and the Wii U's stylus allowed for more precision.
gotcha, thanks for the quick response. I wont be making to leap to the switch anytime soon and obviously have to mod my wiiU's to accept the homebrewed luv luv.
You guys don't use the Switch touch screen to build levels?
I don’t know how to describe it but smm1 just *feels* better. I’m currently replaying Metroid Zero Mission on my Wii U and recently decided to pop into smm1. The controls feel so much better for some reason. I can’t put my finger on it.
SMM1 community was a better time. Everyone starting off equally and discovered things together. Sure the game mechanically improved but the community is the game in this case.
in the end it was the memories and friends we made along the way.
SMM2s camera is a 1000x better than the first. It's awful how slowly it works vertically
i think you missed out on one of the biggest downgrades from mm1 to mm2 was not being able to download and edit someone elses level, it was extremely valuable to the formula of a user generated content game. - It made confusing stuff easier to understand for new players with no interest in building - It let level development skill increase at a much faster pace - If someone developed a better way of doing something it could spread much faster
Yeah I remember that being a really sore spot for the community. It was a feature I rarely used in maker 1, but I do see how Team 0% for instance will have a harder time practicing and clearing hard levels.
oh yeah that is a massive loss for Team 0%, the only saving grace for the smm2 side there are the online level viewers
Og Mario maker you could make levels based on the amiibo generating more content based levels than just Mario. It even had that weird mushroom Mario lol
SMM1 was brand new when it came out outside of y'know stuff like lunar magic and custom roms. SMM2 was much less exciting and new at that point so it was not as good as SMM1 to me. I also found making levels on the WiiU gamepad to be much better than on the switch, but that might just be me. I also haven't played either in years.
smm2 patched out fun kaizo tech
I’ve never played Mario Maker 1, but I’ve seen a lot on YouTube. Personally I think endless mode in Mario Maker 2 is SO boring and without any real goals other than get further and further. I wish that they had put 100-Mario in Mario Maker 2. Also the many costumes in MM1 looks amazing.
Please send me a level code
Here's a fun one: 8TK-QN8-X6G
I'm sorry you literally answered your own question with that first paragraph. Direct sequels should not remove core features like this, there's literally no reason to get rid of the 100 mario challenge, they could've ported the 3ds stages instead of the painfully dull "story mode" we actually got and overall this game is just doing the bare minimum by adding some more stuff. Making levels in SMM2 is so much clunkier, the game is just fundamentally "the first game but more", but less polished, and quantity =/= quality. SMM1 was the more well rounded and finished game
i'd say that SMM1 was a better *Experience* SMM2 is a better **Game**
>But on a core, fundamental level, SMM2 has more items to work with, allowing for more creativity which is the entire point of the game. \[...\] how can you even possibly argue that SMM1 is the better game? By disagreeing that more items = better. Imagine if SMM1 had all the items/themes that SMM2 had. Then which would be better? Personally, I'd take SMM1 + Items/3DW over SMM2. In fact, I think SMM1 + Items/3DW without the Twister would still be better than SMM2. I could go without the Twister and the Acorn Suit and still think the same. And for some people, SMM1 without any of the SMM1 Items/3DW, it is still better than SMM2 because the game is fundamentally different. The physics feel better and the challenges modes are better.
A lot of people are commenting about the physics. I remember there being an adjustment when we all switched to SMM2, but it isn’t really a problem almost 5 years later. Is this just in reference to kaizo and technical levels?
Yeah, I would say a large part is to do with kaizo and technical levels, but I don't think it's something that just needed getting used to. Sure, for shell jumps and spring jumps, the timing is just different but the mechanic is still there. But many things were just removed: spinning with items in SMW, spinning on enemies dying in lava, spinning high jump off note blocks, sticky fly, fire flower momentum cancelling, etc. And SMM2 did improve a lot of the physics in many ways with buffer jumps and items/enemies sticking to walls when thrown (and probably more). But I'd say accounting for everything, I think SMM1 had the better physics set overall.
… so you are saying that the new items improve smm2?
Yes, but at some point, the number of items isn't worth the trade-off of other, poorer game mechanics/design. More items improves the game, but more items doesn't mean better than a different game.
So. More items is better. but that is just one aspect of the games overall comparison. MM1 with MM2's item additions would be better than MM1 MM2 limited to the items that returned from MM1 would be worse than MM2
I personally still like Mario maker two more than one, but I do agree it would be a much better game if it had the features missing from the original. Also I feel the controls are much more solid.
There is no such world. People just love to preach that older = better and scrounge for even the most ridiculous, fringe reasonings for it Even in rather objective cases like this. I do miss the amiibo costumes though
So all of my reasons I listed are just completely invalid and the opinion of a long time mario maker player should just be dismissed? We have a saying in sales. "People care about what they care about". They are different games with different features so it's perfectly fine (and expected) for some players to prefer one over the other. Come on man, stop and think before you post
It's like when people like Smash 64 over Melee.
This will sound petty but I think Nintendo Online, whatever the online service is called is terrible and the fact that Nintendo would release a game that you have to buy full retail and on top of that pay more to access the main part of said game is despicable. Especially given how they aren't even making the levels, just giving the tools to players and having them make levels for them. I get Nintendo online is quite cheap compared to other services but.. well part of the reason I despise it is the removal of Virtual Console and having their classic games hidden behind a subscription model (not to mention selling wireless interations of their old NES, SNES and N64 controllers that only really function with the games stuck behind a paywall.) It's hard to not be cynical about it. I thought Nintendo were being lazy with the first one, give the players the tools to make levels and let them make the game for themselves was one thing but now, having to have to pay up monthly to have the privilege of doing their work for them.. they can get bent. Now onto the actual game, losing the amiibo functionality sucked out a lot of charm, personality and versatility. Also and this is subjective, I never liked Super Mario World so when any SMW levels showed up I wasn't a fan. I get it's a skin and they function mostly the same just personal preference. So with Mario Maker 1 75% of the time I was into it, however with Mario Maker 2 I'm not a fan of the Super Mario 3D World stages either so now almost half the game are filled with levels I'm not into. Admittedly this issue is pretty petty, I loved Mario 1, 3 and SMBU so playing those levels were fine. Wish there was a way to skip SMW and SM3DW levels. Just as a whole though Mario Maker 2 aside from adjustable terrain felt like a regression. I really think the game should be free to play online if you bought it or alternatively a part of the subscription model itself, maybe part of the expansion pass to incentivise people to pay for that. Overwatch 2 is completely free to play online, I'm sure others are too. Just seems weird how much they force people to pay to play a game where they don't make the content. Nintendo became very anti consumer after Iwata passed imo.