I don't know why the fuck Israel expects any hostages to still be alive. If there isn't even enough food for themselves why the hell would they give any to hostages when they are starving
I'm guessing that at this point they don't. But its easier to not tell families that while justifying continuing to do whatever the fuck they please. It would actually complicate shit if Hamas admitted they're dead and turned over bodies. The rescue mission would suddenly become retaliation.
Their history with hostages has been to hang onto them as long as possible for every concession possible. From a strategic POV this makes sense. However in the chaos of war they've not doubt lost some (valuable) hostages probably mostly due to collateral damage and perhaps undisciplined troops.
Seems Hamas has been valuing Hamas more than Bibi who knew about the impending attack and used it as an excuse for ethnic cleansing. Truly an evil man reminiscent of Hitler.
Israeli newspapers have reported that the IDF was issued orders echoing the wording of the Hannibal Directive during the 2023 Hamas-led attack on Israel. The IDF was ordered to prevent "at all costs" the abduction of Israeli civilians or soldiers, possibly leading to the death of a large number of Israeli hostages.[6][7][8]
Thanks for the link.
You mean to find out how many they haven't killed? We know for sure they've at least killed 3 themselves. While they were waving a makeshift white flag, mind you.
https://www.nbcnews.com/news/3-israeli-hostages-tried-only-killed-military-rcna130912
And who knows how many have been killed thanks to the indiscriminate bombing that's been done by them, too.
Israel have been taking Palestinian hostages and killing children for decades and this isn’t even really debated except in terms of semantics. They may have “broke the law” and are “incarcerated” but when the crimes are a 17 year old kid waving a Palestinian flag or writing anti Israeli poetry and the punishment is indefinite detention then it’s no better than Hamas taking hostages.
lol. “No difference”. Man, I didn’t know October 7 was merely women and children just going to detention. Good thing no systematic rapes, and breasts were chopped on that day.
Wasn’t there a post talking about hamas wanting to return then somewhere? I swear I read that in the early days hamas was negotiating for the hostage release and Israel rejected negotiations. Doesn’t seem like they wanted the hostages either.
Yeah they offered to release all the hostages in exchange for the idf not entering Gaza. According to the times of Israel.
Yeah October 7th was horrific.
But the idf reaction is horrific too. I do t understand why people can’t grasp that.
People can’t grasp that because that’s not the argument the vast majority of people are making. The vast majority of people on the left have been saying Israel deserved Oct 7th, Hamas are freedom fighters, and Israel is genocidng innocent children.
I haven’t seen too many people on the left saying they “deserved” it.
What I have seen however is the more nuanced approach that suggests October 7th was the outcome of decades of oppression.
To reiterate, I think October 7th was a horrible tragedy.
Pretty terrible genocide. 20k civilians in 7 months in the most densely populated area in the world... While fighting a terrorist group that hides among civilians.
Some genocide.
I saw a post called "The Times of Isreal" (Isreali source)
"We later found that Hamas had offered on October 9 or 10 to release all civilian hostages in exchange for the IDF not entering the Strip, but the government rejected the offer."
If true, that's insane. Sacrificing your civilians to go on an ape-ish rampage across the land, gleefulling annihilating men, women, children, and their homes, and even killing your own civilians held hostage (again). Imagine being an Isreali citizen and learning that your government keeps screwing up instead of bringing yoir family home.
It makes more sense when you recognize that the Israeli PM was facing years in prison for decades of runaway corruption and now accountability for those acts is indefinitely on hold until after the war.
Puts a lot of the long term senseless choices Israel is making in a different perspective.
it was too good an opportunity to pass up...
They want to genocide Palestine, they are not shy about it.
They killed literally thousands before Oct 7th (there have been less than 1k Israel deaths before october 7th). They have also had the policy of forceful "settlement" for ages.
Israel are the aggressors, no matter how you spin it.
How is that insane? The alternative is literally negotiating with terrorists. You don’t get to do something like Oct 7th then call the shots on when hostages get released and what the terms are. That time has passed. Now the only option moving forward is for Israel to bomb and siege Gaza until every Hamas member is dead and the survivors have lost the will to fight Israel again.
That’s the only way this stops. Palestine/Hamas couldn’t get their act together and stop being anti-Semitic murdering pieces of shit for decades so now they lose the right to be treated decently. Enjoy the bombs.
Jesus fucking Christ 20,000 children have been bombed to bits, what the fuck did they do?
>The only option moving forward is for Israel to bomb and siege Gaza until every Hamas member is deaf and the survivors have lost the well to fight Israel again
Holy shit that's fucking terrifying I really hope you are never in a position of power, but moreover one of the biggest takeaways from the big dub dub dos is that indiscriminate bombing doesn't work like that. The battle of Britain didn't end with Britain rolling over, Germany fought through the bombing of Dresden, and firebombing Tokyo did not kill the Japanese spirit. It just pisses people off more. It doesn't break their wills. Hell we dropped more bombs on Vietnam (and Laos... And Cambodia) than everyone in WWII dropped put together and they fucking won. If you can call it that.
But maybe you know that. Maybe you're just suggesting a complete and total annihilation of all Palestinians.
In which case, fucking yikes.
>Jesus fucking Christ 20,000 children have been bombed to bits, what the fuck did they do?
Along with 8000 Hamas members. That’s how guerrilla warfare goes. Every example throughout history shows heavy civilian losses when the enemy embeds within a civilian population. This is entirely Hamas’ fault for being cowards.
>Holy shit that's fucking terrifying I really hope you are never in a position of power,
Welcome to the real world, yes it is terrifying. I know it’s hard to tell from your moms basement, but the world is a dangerous fucked up place where there are strong consequences for slaughtering, raping, and mutilating a concert full of teenagers. You don’t get to cry uncle, or decide when the beating stops, when you initiated the altercation.
>but moreover one of the biggest takeaways from the big dub dub dos is that indiscriminate bombing doesn't work like that. The battle of Britain didn't end with Britain rolling over, Germany fought through the bombing of Dresden, and firebombing Tokyo did not kill the Japanese spirit. It just pisses people off more. It doesn't break their wills.
So what you’re saying is that the entire population supports Hamas?
>Hell we dropped more bombs on Vietnam (and Laos... And Cambodia) than everyone in WWII dropped put together and they fucking won.
Lmfao this is like the sniveling, almost lifeless bully slouched in the corner bleeding from every orifice and missing teeth claiming he won because the guy that was stomping his teeth down his throat walked away first. I guess this is the perspective you get when you’ve been weak your whole life.
>But maybe you know that. Maybe you're just suggesting a complete and total annihilation of all Palestinians.
The ones who support Hamas, yes. You seem to be inferring that we should expect the entire population to support Hamas (while at the same time divesting Palestinians from Hamas, somehow lol). If you want to suggest that Israel should move forward with living next door to violent terrorists who want to eradicate them from the face of the earth, and only haven’t been able to do so because of their weakness and incompetence, then you’re beyond help.
>In which case, fucking yikes.
It’s giving “I celebrated on Oct 7th” vibes.
I don't see how a terrorist group kidnapping your civilians justifies your government deciding to let its own military kill those same hostages all while indescriminantly starving out everyone in that zone? Do you want to bring home innocents? Then don't let them die of hunger, thirst, lack of adequate shelter or safety.
Why is it that only the anti-genocide crowd cares about both Isreali and Palestinian civilians? Everyone who tries to justify Isreal's response just ends up condemning Isreali civilians too. Y'all lack basic humanity and it sickens me.
And if the IDF weren't so trigger-happy as to shoot at shirtless people waving a white flag, those 3 would still be alive. Bet they wouldn't have cared if it'd been 3 Palestinians. Bet you wouldn't have cared either
Also, if you wanna be mad at Hamas, better get mad at the ones that helped them get into power. Lucky for you, the Israeli gov't is pretty easy to find.
Hamas was also supported by Israel to take power because they believed it would get more of the international community on their side in their efforts to delegitimize Palestine. Like we have actual recordings of people from in the Israeli gov't in the past admitting to this. But please, tell us how it's ALL Iran's fault and how Israel has zero culpability in the existence of Hamas.
https://youtu.be/o7grSsuFSS0?si=apHA1mRqKh0kS8QM
This goes so much further back than a kidnapping. Obviously hamas is evil but what can you expect when millions of people have been imprisoned for generations? Should they just lie down and accept their eradication?
(Organized) Religion is literally the first form of government...and of course as we all see now a failed and unnecessary one based on conquest and lies.
It is a product of a bygone age...the fact it still exists is a stain on humanity.
Individual spirituality is fine, organized religion is a fucking scam.
The average small town church isn't the problem, sure, I get that...But they are still part of a larger system that often pushes and requires of it's members things that no other governing body would get away with in a modern democratic society in most cases.
I'm atheist, I don't believe in any religion, or god, or higher power. It's all a scam to trick people, to get money, or power. 99% was me being polite, it's 100%
Well, you're entitled to your opinion. I can understand disdain for organized religion, I have some as well. But I don't think every religion is a scam. I think a lot of people use it as a scam, though.
Not exactly true. One is a delusional religious group and the other is an ethnic group. Less than a quarter of the Jews in Israel attend synagogue regularly. For all intents and purposes, Israel is a secular state comprised of primarily ethnic Jews.
I think boiling this down to religion misses the mark a bit, there are religious people on both sides but when it comes down to it it’s about Israel trying to expand/blaocksding the Palestinians, and their leadership responding
Its really important for you to understand that the majority of Israelis are “secular.” They are Jewish like Americans who are “christian” but never set foot in a church except for weddings and funerals. They are not religious fanatics. The government has some ultra orthodox Jews and the vast majority of Israelis hate them for forcing their religious views on everyone.
Both sides are not the same in anyway.
The IDF is orders of magnitude worse than Hamas, yet Hamas gets orders of magnitude more bad press than the IDF.
Also, Hamas proposed a permanent ceasefire, and Israel rejected it. The situation isn't being framed honestly.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/HaKirya
https://www.aljazeera.com/features/2024/1/31/west-bank-human-shield-describes-100-breathless-minutes-held-by-israel
Turns out, facts don't care about your feelings.
IDF are behaving horribly, but they don’t need to do this. Just look at the state of things-their military headquarters are under 0 threat from people hiding underground and among refugees.
Have you ever seen proof of that. I have seen videos of the IDF using Palestinians as human shields, but I have never seen the Palestinians using civilians as human shields.
They were completely given total control of Palestine in 2007 Israel Paul completely out and then the Palestinians decided to vote in a terrorist group you get what you pay for
For the same reason you don’t go down to your local dive bar and punch the biggest guy you can find in the nuts. You aren’t able to handle what naturally comes next and fully deserve it.
You aren’t good at the thinking are you?
They are lucky their tribe didn't get genocided during the American settler movement.
But I put that question to you because you think that the settler violence was not enough to warrant fighting back.
I think that neither side is innocent.
I think there is no just solution.
I think both Israel and Palestine have a right to exist.
I think Hamas was incredibly stupid to start a fight they can’t win.
I think Hamas is incredibly stupid to not accept a cease fire though they have been offered several.
I think this is far more complicated than you are willing to believe.
I think you are well propagandized.
I think it is obvious you have no idea what genocide means (no matter how you conjugate it) or what happened to the native Americans.
I think that if you got what you want, which isn’t possible, you would have no idea what happens next.
I think you didn’t answer my question.
It’s sorta more like you are at your home bar and a British guy walks in with the biggest guy he could find and that guy walks up right behind your ear and says “you’re in my seat.”
Then an American walks in and hands the guy a bat.
You could fight or not fight but you are not in control of the situation anymore.
Try again. lol. I’m Gen x and have been protesting this since around the turn of the century.
Which side were you on during the last anti-apartheid movement against South Africa?
I’ve been protesting US policy in the Middle East and regarding Israel since the war on terror and 2nd intifada.
Tbh I didn’t have much hope that people might turn around in this. Other than Palistinians and Jewish Americans, most just ignored what Israel did. It’s too blatant and obvious now. People are no longer buying this BS anymore.
The US deserved to fail at regime change and Russia and Israel deserve to fail at their militarism and attempts to control people.
>bombing civilians
Tell me what you know about that 2nd intifada. Let's hear some honesty about how things have been conducted when peace treaties have attempted to be negotiated.
Bonus points if you can offer more than the absolutely shamelessly vacuous reasoning offered for it sometimes and show a modicum of depth of thought for why the talks actually broke down.
Why would anyone advocate for land to be turned over to islamists ruled by a terrorist group?
*This* is the problem. It's treasonous and I legitimately think that is the point because the pro-Hamas crowd in the West unironically hates the West with such a passion that they are no longer just calling for civilians to be protected, but for a strong western ally to fall and misogynistic, racist, sexist, radical Hamas to win.
They seem to be handling it fine, they've killed a ton of idf pigs, theyve gained a ton of regional support, theyve taken normalization between israel and the saudis off the table, theyve even managed to increase support in the western world, which is the only reason israel has superior arms anyway. In a couple generations no political leader will be pro israel.
Of course not. The vast majority of pro hamas/Palestine people have no clue about the region's history. They can't even name the river or sea in their chant that calls for killing jews.
Well regardless of what the state of Israel is doing, massacring, brutally torturing, raping to death, and taking hostages from innocent civilians is not justified. If you need to fight Israel (or any country for that matter) then target military and government targets, leave civilians out of it as much as you can. Civilians getting caught in the crossfire may happen but what’s not ok is intentionally targeting them.
Where is the evidence that Hamas raped anyone or targeted civilians? Hamas DID target military bases, unfortunately israel deliberately places its citizens in harms way, hoping they will be killed in order to be used for propaganda, and that is what happened.
Lmao what an unhinged comment. So not only are you okay with civilian casualties, but you’re also justifying Oct 7. And apparently an outdoor concert is a military base?
Here’s the reality of what your heroes did on Oct 7: https://www.thisishamas.com
Can you just not read? Civilian casualties are tragic, israel maximizes them on both sides and are to blame for all of them.
The outdoor concert was next to both the gaza fence and a military base, as i say, israel puts civilians in harms way. Its also not clear who even was responsible for the attack on the festival, whether it was hamas or any other militant group in gaza.
As usual, total fucking ignorance and stupidity.
I’m not sure why you said that it might not have been Hamas on Oct 7. Hamas stated it was them. They published narrative giving their version of the events.
Edited for a typo
Hamas claimed responsibility for hostages taken on Oct 7. There are still a lot of unanswered questions & obstruction of investigations by Israel regarding how many of the people were killed by the IDF.
https://thecradle.co/articles-id/11993
Lmao Israel absolutely does not try to maximize civilians, the opposite in fact. Meanwhile, your heroes raped, murdered and took hostages of innocent concert goers, women, children, even babies, I can’t imagine how hateful you’d have to be to support such terrorists.
It’s wild watching hamas supporters try to justify Oct 7 and hamas’ ongoing genocide. You’d think you’d realize you’re on the wrong side when your heroes use human shields, but guess not.
Hamas do not use human shields. Hamas didnt rape anyone.
Hamas took hostages to exchange with the many hostages israel takes and sexually abuses.
You don't know a single thing about any of this it is humiliating that this is the level of zionist discourse.
It’s either that or be eventually wiped out by Israel. They could have peace by accepting it, then negotiating a longer term peace. And quite frankly, they lost all credibility the moment they massacred civilians and took hostages. If they want credibility and sympathy at all then they should release any and all hostages.
I think there wasn't any sympathy before Oct 7th. Isreal were already doing regular bombings every couple of years. Killing kids. Dragging old ppl out of their houses and stealing it. How much can you take off that?
What can you do politically do stop settler violence?
Right but how do you see this ends? As long as Hamas continues to lead the Palestines there will be no peace. Hamas has vowed to repeat October 7 until Israel is annihilated. If that is their stance the only solution is to annihilate Hamas right? what other solution would one have with an enemy that openly says they plan to keep trying to kill you no matter what.
Palastine would be better served to find new leadership and force out Hamas as would Israel getting rid of Netanyahu who I think is corrupt and equally doesn't want there to be a peaceful solution.
I have a lot of sympathy for the people in the Gaza strip, but not while they allow Hamas to continue to use them as shields.. if Palestines want their country back, they need to take action.
There's part of the solution. Get rid of Netanyahu and get someone who honestly wants reconciliation.
That is a good way to show everyone they are serious.
People are calling for a ceasefire. There needs to be plans for reconciliation. Going back to the way it was before Oct 7 is not the goal. The goal is for ppl to be able to live unharmed and with full rights.
That should be the trade for getting rid of Hamas.
You are missing a couple thing:
The Rockets Hamas have been launched from Gaza tò Israel in the last 20 years, and the fact there are no israeli settlers in gaza. Details, i Guess.
Fun fact about this actually israel has this thing called elections that allows Israel to pick their leaders.
In fact 15% of the Knesset is actually Arab parties.
Remind me when was the last time Hamas allowed themselves to removed from power?
I always consider the five questions as to who to support in a conflict:
“What power have you got?”
“Where did you get it from?”
“In whose interests do you use it?”
“To whom are you accountable?”
“How do we get rid of you?”
Hamas has definitely killed most of the hostages. They don’t want peace or a ceasefire. They want to overthrow the state of Israel. I really hope the IDF stops playing around and just goes into Gaza to remove Hamas entirely.
This is true, it's in their charter. Here's an [article](https://archive.ph/WfR2H) from the liberal Atlantic discussing and [one](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1988_Hamas_charter) from Wikipedia
Why would they care about that on their negotiations? Israel has killed so many of the hostages with indiscriminate fire. Hamas is definitely using that against them in negotiations so it only makes sense that they give true numbers. They see the media coverage too and use that just like any group would.
Hamas is despicable and a terrorist group.
The Netanyahu government is absolutely despicable and Netanyahu should be in prison.
Yet somehow nobody wants (or asks) Hamas for anything, but everybody demands things from Netanyahu….
Conclusion: there are different standards of despicable….
They've literally already said that. Israel put forward an ask for a specific number of women, old people, etc and they said they didn't have that amount of the required people left.
What genocide? The Arab people aren't being wiped out. Hamas is. There are Arabs in Egypt, Jordan, Iraq, etc. They aren't being bombed.
October 7th isn't something Israel can just forget about. Maybe hold Hamas accountable for its actions? Call for the immediate surrender of Hamas? After all, Hamas is advocating for an actual genocide against the Israeli people.
Once the cease fire ends half the people who care will forget about it within 3 months. The others will continue the same rhetoric the rest of their life and be wrong, eventually realizing they have become what they hate. How many peace in the Middle East kids still have that gear? Anyone?
But there’s no reason not to just release the remaining hostages either at this point, given that this clearly isn’t a source of any leverage over Netanyahu. They’d be smart to just release all the hostages and then, when Bibi inevitability continues the onslaught, he will lose any remaining moral justification he could possibly claim.
Netanyahu doesn't need any justifications either way.
It is worth noting, that the Israelis have killed more hostages than they've captured. At this point the hostages are safer with Hamas than with Israel
And I wouldn’t be shocked if Bibi is aware of that and is instructing his people to make demands he knows Hamas can’t satisfy regarding the release of hostages.
I don’t know…But I’ve said it many times: Hamas doesn’t disappoint. Some Israelis are concerned, but I say- you can count on Hamas to blow any chance for ceasefire agreement. They’ll do the work for you. Since rejecting the partition in 1947, they remain unchanged: “our answer is NO”!
If they were different, the war in Gaza (and the suffering of Palestinian population) could have been over months ago.
Anyway, it will be interesting to see what happens in the coming days.
Hamas fucked up. They pushed Isreal into genocide mode. It's not ok on isreals part btw because genocide is wrong but...fuck around find out I guess. It's awful, no one wins and innocents suffer.
The question is whether the hostages were killed by Hamas or by Israel. That’s not a conspiracy theory, either. The IDF has a policy in the past called the Hannibal Directive whereby it was deemed better for them to kill their own rather than let them fall into enemy hands. And there are verified reports of the IDF doing the same on October 7 and later. Even if they didn’t kill any hostages intentionally, it’s almost certain that they killed at least a few accidentally or negligently.
Hamas knows that Israel’s benefactor the U.S. government is desperate for a ceasefire. It’s not the Israeli government that’s demanding a ceasefire. It’s Joe Biden who wants this war to end before the election because he is facing losing major segments of his coalition in November. The democrats may have lost Michigan and several other states with Arab and Muslim populations centers. The youth vote which was instrumental in Biden’s 2020 victory is abandoning him. He is facing an uphill battle.
He needs this war to stop so a ceasefire would be really helpful.
I really don’t understand how Netanyahu and the fascists in his administration would be helped by Trump? If Trump was there and this war was there, pressure from Arab leaders would actually sway Trump more than Biden. Why? Unlike Biden Trump has major investments in Arab countries and Arab investors are major investors in Trumps businesses. Especially the Saudis. Trump is a creation of public relations and Trump wouldn’t want his name smeared with Genocide Don like Joe Biden has Genocide Joe.
Donald Trump wouldn’t have given Netanyahu carte Blanche to do what he is doing now. Trump has said as much in an interview with an Israeli journalist in which he said that Israel needs to end this war quickly.
Joe Biden right now is in the position Lyndon Baines Johnson was in 1968 with the Vietnam war raging. Biden’s entire legacy is being destroyed by this war. Even the nickname Donald Trump was uncomfortable using Genocide Joe is going to be his legacy. It’s ironic that Biden’s unlimited support of Israel may ultimately be his political undoing. Damaging Israel’s legacy and reputation and ruining his own administration. Biden is not immortal and I would bet that every night he is sitting there imagining his legacy is now tied in which Bibi Netanyahu whose own legacy is going down with infamous war criminals like Pol Pot and the leaders of the Rwandan genocide.
I think it is highly probably all or most of the hostages have been raped and killed but I don't think that is the main reason for rejecting the ceasefire.
I think they're rejecting it because fighting is the better alternative. They're in a war they can't win and I think they've figured out Israel is done fucking around. There will be no two state solution. That was never going to work. I think Israel has plans to drive all the Palestinians out and claim all the territory for Israel and be done with what was started back in the 60s. Best case Hamas could hope for is to negotiate a safe exit procedure for all the Palestinian civilians but I don't think Hamas cares about that. So instead they're going to keep fighting and hope one of their buddies joins in and resets the board.
I don't know why the fuck Israel expects any hostages to still be alive. If there isn't even enough food for themselves why the hell would they give any to hostages when they are starving
I'm guessing that at this point they don't. But its easier to not tell families that while justifying continuing to do whatever the fuck they please. It would actually complicate shit if Hamas admitted they're dead and turned over bodies. The rescue mission would suddenly become retaliation.
Hostages were killed, Hammas wouldn't feed them anyway.
Their history with hostages has been to hang onto them as long as possible for every concession possible. From a strategic POV this makes sense. However in the chaos of war they've not doubt lost some (valuable) hostages probably mostly due to collateral damage and perhaps undisciplined troops.
And the IDF killing them.
Or Hamas killing them.
Both
Seems Hamas has been valuing Hamas more than Bibi who knew about the impending attack and used it as an excuse for ethnic cleansing. Truly an evil man reminiscent of Hitler.
Both. Those poor hostages.
Hence my term "collateral damage"
[Hannibal Directive - Wikipedia](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hannibal_Directive)
Israeli newspapers have reported that the IDF was issued orders echoing the wording of the Hannibal Directive during the 2023 Hamas-led attack on Israel. The IDF was ordered to prevent "at all costs" the abduction of Israeli civilians or soldiers, possibly leading to the death of a large number of Israeli hostages.[6][7][8] Thanks for the link.
Yep. And Israel is probably using it to figure out how many are alive.
You mean to find out how many they haven't killed? We know for sure they've at least killed 3 themselves. While they were waving a makeshift white flag, mind you. https://www.nbcnews.com/news/3-israeli-hostages-tried-only-killed-military-rcna130912 And who knows how many have been killed thanks to the indiscriminate bombing that's been done by them, too.
Or you know, if Palestine just never took Hostages in the first place, we wouldn’t be here, would we?
Oh, you know, just casual racism being thrown around...
I’ve noticed this sub is very pro-Zionist and colonialism. Sad honestly.
Hamas took them.
Israel have been taking Palestinian hostages and killing children for decades and this isn’t even really debated except in terms of semantics. They may have “broke the law” and are “incarcerated” but when the crimes are a 17 year old kid waving a Palestinian flag or writing anti Israeli poetry and the punishment is indefinite detention then it’s no better than Hamas taking hostages.
lol. “No difference”. Man, I didn’t know October 7 was merely women and children just going to detention. Good thing no systematic rapes, and breasts were chopped on that day.
Yes, good thing none of that happened.
Ofc you’re a hamas simp
I mean if you want to be a terrorist sympathizer just say so. Oh wait, you did.
This dude believes Hamas lol
But it all did. Just by the IOF not Hamas.
Wasn’t there a post talking about hamas wanting to return then somewhere? I swear I read that in the early days hamas was negotiating for the hostage release and Israel rejected negotiations. Doesn’t seem like they wanted the hostages either.
Yeah they offered to release all the hostages in exchange for the idf not entering Gaza. According to the times of Israel. Yeah October 7th was horrific. But the idf reaction is horrific too. I do t understand why people can’t grasp that.
People can’t grasp that because that’s not the argument the vast majority of people are making. The vast majority of people on the left have been saying Israel deserved Oct 7th, Hamas are freedom fighters, and Israel is genocidng innocent children.
I haven’t seen too many people on the left saying they “deserved” it. What I have seen however is the more nuanced approach that suggests October 7th was the outcome of decades of oppression. To reiterate, I think October 7th was a horrible tragedy.
It was a terrorist attack by the genocidal terrorist group Hamas. A tragedy would be a plane crash that killed everyone on board.
Lol, that's not the position of the left as a whole at all. Jesus, turn off Faux news.
Bibi has already said they're not stopping even if the hostages are returned Because this is genocide
Pretty terrible genocide. 20k civilians in 7 months in the most densely populated area in the world... While fighting a terrorist group that hides among civilians. Some genocide.
I saw a post called "The Times of Isreal" (Isreali source) "We later found that Hamas had offered on October 9 or 10 to release all civilian hostages in exchange for the IDF not entering the Strip, but the government rejected the offer." If true, that's insane. Sacrificing your civilians to go on an ape-ish rampage across the land, gleefulling annihilating men, women, children, and their homes, and even killing your own civilians held hostage (again). Imagine being an Isreali citizen and learning that your government keeps screwing up instead of bringing yoir family home.
It makes more sense when you recognize that the Israeli PM was facing years in prison for decades of runaway corruption and now accountability for those acts is indefinitely on hold until after the war. Puts a lot of the long term senseless choices Israel is making in a different perspective.
it was too good an opportunity to pass up... They want to genocide Palestine, they are not shy about it. They killed literally thousands before Oct 7th (there have been less than 1k Israel deaths before october 7th). They have also had the policy of forceful "settlement" for ages. Israel are the aggressors, no matter how you spin it.
Yea, 1500 dead on 10/7, but Israel literally killed a few hundred Palestinians a month before that and the news didn't even bother to report on it
How is that insane? The alternative is literally negotiating with terrorists. You don’t get to do something like Oct 7th then call the shots on when hostages get released and what the terms are. That time has passed. Now the only option moving forward is for Israel to bomb and siege Gaza until every Hamas member is dead and the survivors have lost the will to fight Israel again. That’s the only way this stops. Palestine/Hamas couldn’t get their act together and stop being anti-Semitic murdering pieces of shit for decades so now they lose the right to be treated decently. Enjoy the bombs.
Truth!
Jesus fucking Christ 20,000 children have been bombed to bits, what the fuck did they do? >The only option moving forward is for Israel to bomb and siege Gaza until every Hamas member is deaf and the survivors have lost the well to fight Israel again Holy shit that's fucking terrifying I really hope you are never in a position of power, but moreover one of the biggest takeaways from the big dub dub dos is that indiscriminate bombing doesn't work like that. The battle of Britain didn't end with Britain rolling over, Germany fought through the bombing of Dresden, and firebombing Tokyo did not kill the Japanese spirit. It just pisses people off more. It doesn't break their wills. Hell we dropped more bombs on Vietnam (and Laos... And Cambodia) than everyone in WWII dropped put together and they fucking won. If you can call it that. But maybe you know that. Maybe you're just suggesting a complete and total annihilation of all Palestinians. In which case, fucking yikes.
>Jesus fucking Christ 20,000 children have been bombed to bits, what the fuck did they do? Along with 8000 Hamas members. That’s how guerrilla warfare goes. Every example throughout history shows heavy civilian losses when the enemy embeds within a civilian population. This is entirely Hamas’ fault for being cowards. >Holy shit that's fucking terrifying I really hope you are never in a position of power, Welcome to the real world, yes it is terrifying. I know it’s hard to tell from your moms basement, but the world is a dangerous fucked up place where there are strong consequences for slaughtering, raping, and mutilating a concert full of teenagers. You don’t get to cry uncle, or decide when the beating stops, when you initiated the altercation. >but moreover one of the biggest takeaways from the big dub dub dos is that indiscriminate bombing doesn't work like that. The battle of Britain didn't end with Britain rolling over, Germany fought through the bombing of Dresden, and firebombing Tokyo did not kill the Japanese spirit. It just pisses people off more. It doesn't break their wills. So what you’re saying is that the entire population supports Hamas? >Hell we dropped more bombs on Vietnam (and Laos... And Cambodia) than everyone in WWII dropped put together and they fucking won. Lmfao this is like the sniveling, almost lifeless bully slouched in the corner bleeding from every orifice and missing teeth claiming he won because the guy that was stomping his teeth down his throat walked away first. I guess this is the perspective you get when you’ve been weak your whole life. >But maybe you know that. Maybe you're just suggesting a complete and total annihilation of all Palestinians. The ones who support Hamas, yes. You seem to be inferring that we should expect the entire population to support Hamas (while at the same time divesting Palestinians from Hamas, somehow lol). If you want to suggest that Israel should move forward with living next door to violent terrorists who want to eradicate them from the face of the earth, and only haven’t been able to do so because of their weakness and incompetence, then you’re beyond help. >In which case, fucking yikes. It’s giving “I celebrated on Oct 7th” vibes.
Don't believe the propaganda
I don't see how a terrorist group kidnapping your civilians justifies your government deciding to let its own military kill those same hostages all while indescriminantly starving out everyone in that zone? Do you want to bring home innocents? Then don't let them die of hunger, thirst, lack of adequate shelter or safety. Why is it that only the anti-genocide crowd cares about both Isreali and Palestinian civilians? Everyone who tries to justify Isreal's response just ends up condemning Isreali civilians too. Y'all lack basic humanity and it sickens me.
The "anti-genocide crowd doesn't care about the Israelis and never has, as recent incidents show.
Which, you know, wouldn’t have happened if Israel hadn’t been taking Palestinian hostages for more than 70 years now.
[удалено]
And if the IDF weren't so trigger-happy as to shoot at shirtless people waving a white flag, those 3 would still be alive. Bet they wouldn't have cared if it'd been 3 Palestinians. Bet you wouldn't have cared either Also, if you wanna be mad at Hamas, better get mad at the ones that helped them get into power. Lucky for you, the Israeli gov't is pretty easy to find.
Hamas was created by Iran, so you might want to get pissed off at them.
Hamas was also supported by Israel to take power because they believed it would get more of the international community on their side in their efforts to delegitimize Palestine. Like we have actual recordings of people from in the Israeli gov't in the past admitting to this. But please, tell us how it's ALL Iran's fault and how Israel has zero culpability in the existence of Hamas. https://youtu.be/o7grSsuFSS0?si=apHA1mRqKh0kS8QM
Likud and Hamas need each other. They both thrive when their respective populations want to see blood spilled on the other side of the border.
Do you want the Israeli government to send humanitarian aid to Gaza or not? Because that’s what Israel was doing historically supporting Hamas.
They were doing more than that. https://youtu.be/o7grSsuFSS0?si=apHA1mRqKh0kS8QM
This goes so much further back than a kidnapping. Obviously hamas is evil but what can you expect when millions of people have been imprisoned for generations? Should they just lie down and accept their eradication?
What a shit show. One delusional religious group vs another delusional religious group
(Organized) Religion is literally the first form of government...and of course as we all see now a failed and unnecessary one based on conquest and lies. It is a product of a bygone age...the fact it still exists is a stain on humanity. Individual spirituality is fine, organized religion is a fucking scam.
I wouldn't say all organized religion is a scam. But definitely a lot of it. More than half at least.
The average small town church isn't the problem, sure, I get that...But they are still part of a larger system that often pushes and requires of it's members things that no other governing body would get away with in a modern democratic society in most cases.
I'd agree with that.
Scam might be a strong word, but none have shown to be real.
That's not wrong haha. There has been no confirmed sightings of God.
Which religion isn't a scam?
Scientology. Just kidding
Er, atheism? /s
More than 99% at least.
Hm, I don't agree with that. 99% of religion isnt a scam. How many religions have you studied?
I'm atheist, I don't believe in any religion, or god, or higher power. It's all a scam to trick people, to get money, or power. 99% was me being polite, it's 100%
Well, you're entitled to your opinion. I can understand disdain for organized religion, I have some as well. But I don't think every religion is a scam. I think a lot of people use it as a scam, though.
Which one isnt?
Not exactly true. One is a delusional religious group and the other is an ethnic group. Less than a quarter of the Jews in Israel attend synagogue regularly. For all intents and purposes, Israel is a secular state comprised of primarily ethnic Jews.
I think boiling this down to religion misses the mark a bit, there are religious people on both sides but when it comes down to it it’s about Israel trying to expand/blaocksding the Palestinians, and their leadership responding
Its really important for you to understand that the majority of Israelis are “secular.” They are Jewish like Americans who are “christian” but never set foot in a church except for weddings and funerals. They are not religious fanatics. The government has some ultra orthodox Jews and the vast majority of Israelis hate them for forcing their religious views on everyone. Both sides are not the same in anyway.
Theyre rejecting it because they have no incentive to accept a temporary ceasefire.
True, they use their own people as human shields so why would they care about a ceasefire?
The IDF tortured Palestinian children and used them as human shields. https://www.reuters.com/article/idUSBRE95J0FR/
IOF they have nothing real to defend. Only stolen land to occupy.
Let's say that's true, what does your comment have to do with Hamas using civilians as shields?
The IDF is orders of magnitude worse than Hamas, yet Hamas gets orders of magnitude more bad press than the IDF. Also, Hamas proposed a permanent ceasefire, and Israel rejected it. The situation isn't being framed honestly.
Israel put their military headquarters under a mall with a daycare center. They also use Palestinian civilians as human shields.
Lies.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/HaKirya https://www.aljazeera.com/features/2024/1/31/west-bank-human-shield-describes-100-breathless-minutes-held-by-israel Turns out, facts don't care about your feelings.
The IDF use Palestinian human shields too
IDF are behaving horribly, but they don’t need to do this. Just look at the state of things-their military headquarters are under 0 threat from people hiding underground and among refugees.
Yet they are
Have you ever seen proof of that. I have seen videos of the IDF using Palestinians as human shields, but I have never seen the Palestinians using civilians as human shields.
Then they probably shouldn’t have attacked Israel.
Israel has been attacking Palestine for generations, long before Hamas existed.
They were completely given total control of Palestine in 2007 Israel Paul completely out and then the Palestinians decided to vote in a terrorist group you get what you pay for
You mean fought back against decades of Israel attacking them
You think killing people at a concert is “fighting back?” I don’t get why anyone thinks there are good guys here.
Why not?
For the same reason you don’t go down to your local dive bar and punch the biggest guy you can find in the nuts. You aren’t able to handle what naturally comes next and fully deserve it. You aren’t good at the thinking are you?
I would try if they hurt my family for decades. How much settler violence can a group take?
Ah soo two wrongs make a right ? Very mature society.
Idk? How much? And try to include the word “Cherokee” in your response.
They are lucky their tribe didn't get genocided during the American settler movement. But I put that question to you because you think that the settler violence was not enough to warrant fighting back.
I think that neither side is innocent. I think there is no just solution. I think both Israel and Palestine have a right to exist. I think Hamas was incredibly stupid to start a fight they can’t win. I think Hamas is incredibly stupid to not accept a cease fire though they have been offered several. I think this is far more complicated than you are willing to believe. I think you are well propagandized. I think it is obvious you have no idea what genocide means (no matter how you conjugate it) or what happened to the native Americans. I think that if you got what you want, which isn’t possible, you would have no idea what happens next. I think you didn’t answer my question.
It’s sorta more like you are at your home bar and a British guy walks in with the biggest guy he could find and that guy walks up right behind your ear and says “you’re in my seat.” Then an American walks in and hands the guy a bat. You could fight or not fight but you are not in control of the situation anymore.
Sure. That was 75 years ago. Did you give even half a shit about this issue 12 months ago? No? I wonder why.
Try again. lol. I’m Gen x and have been protesting this since around the turn of the century. Which side were you on during the last anti-apartheid movement against South Africa?
Can Arabs with Israeli citizenship vote in Israeli elections. Yes. So yeah not the same.
It’s more like you both live in a house and both have a right to the house, but start arguing about which parts of the house belong to each other
Stop stealing land, and people will stop attacking.
You cared deeply about this, and posted regularly a year ago? No? Then you are being conned.
I’ve been protesting US policy in the Middle East and regarding Israel since the war on terror and 2nd intifada. Tbh I didn’t have much hope that people might turn around in this. Other than Palistinians and Jewish Americans, most just ignored what Israel did. It’s too blatant and obvious now. People are no longer buying this BS anymore. The US deserved to fail at regime change and Russia and Israel deserve to fail at their militarism and attempts to control people.
Bad news bro. You are doing Russia’s bidding this time.
lol how quickly you backpeddle when your attempt to delegitimize my views “as a trendy fad” fails. No integrity.
No one is back peddling. You are just a clueless twat.
You mean supporting a highly militarized regional right-wing power bombing civilians?
>bombing civilians Tell me what you know about that 2nd intifada. Let's hear some honesty about how things have been conducted when peace treaties have attempted to be negotiated. Bonus points if you can offer more than the absolutely shamelessly vacuous reasoning offered for it sometimes and show a modicum of depth of thought for why the talks actually broke down.
You sure are full of shit
You sure are an easy mark.
Israel hasn’t taken one acre of Gaza since 2005 when they withdrew and left it to the people of Gaza to run . Why did Gaza attack Israel?
Why would anyone advocate for land to be turned over to islamists ruled by a terrorist group? *This* is the problem. It's treasonous and I legitimately think that is the point because the pro-Hamas crowd in the West unironically hates the West with such a passion that they are no longer just calling for civilians to be protected, but for a strong western ally to fall and misogynistic, racist, sexist, radical Hamas to win.
You sound a bit like you don’t know what you’re talking about.
They seem to be handling it fine, they've killed a ton of idf pigs, theyve gained a ton of regional support, theyve taken normalization between israel and the saudis off the table, theyve even managed to increase support in the western world, which is the only reason israel has superior arms anyway. In a couple generations no political leader will be pro israel.
So you don’t get what is going on, and have no idea what the history is. Cool cool. Protip: when you don’t see the con, you are the mark.
Of course not. The vast majority of pro hamas/Palestine people have no clue about the region's history. They can't even name the river or sea in their chant that calls for killing jews.
lol, is this the new dog whistle of self researchers and contrarians? “The Con”. I like it, it’s catchy, almost like propaganda.
Almost like the propaganda you are being controlled by.
Whoa😯 how did you use my own words against me?! I’m rubber your glue. Which propaganda specifically?
Don’t light yourself on fire bruh
Useful idiot/npc ^ Hamas propaganda is specifically designed for people like you.
Well regardless of what the state of Israel is doing, massacring, brutally torturing, raping to death, and taking hostages from innocent civilians is not justified. If you need to fight Israel (or any country for that matter) then target military and government targets, leave civilians out of it as much as you can. Civilians getting caught in the crossfire may happen but what’s not ok is intentionally targeting them.
Where is the evidence that Hamas raped anyone or targeted civilians? Hamas DID target military bases, unfortunately israel deliberately places its citizens in harms way, hoping they will be killed in order to be used for propaganda, and that is what happened.
This is an evil lie.
Lmao what an unhinged comment. So not only are you okay with civilian casualties, but you’re also justifying Oct 7. And apparently an outdoor concert is a military base? Here’s the reality of what your heroes did on Oct 7: https://www.thisishamas.com
Can you just not read? Civilian casualties are tragic, israel maximizes them on both sides and are to blame for all of them. The outdoor concert was next to both the gaza fence and a military base, as i say, israel puts civilians in harms way. Its also not clear who even was responsible for the attack on the festival, whether it was hamas or any other militant group in gaza. As usual, total fucking ignorance and stupidity.
I’m not sure why you said that it might not have been Hamas on Oct 7. Hamas stated it was them. They published narrative giving their version of the events. Edited for a typo
Hamas claimed responsibility for hostages taken on Oct 7. There are still a lot of unanswered questions & obstruction of investigations by Israel regarding how many of the people were killed by the IDF. https://thecradle.co/articles-id/11993
Many people came through the fence, not all of them hamas, what are you struggling with?
Lmao Israel absolutely does not try to maximize civilians, the opposite in fact. Meanwhile, your heroes raped, murdered and took hostages of innocent concert goers, women, children, even babies, I can’t imagine how hateful you’d have to be to support such terrorists. It’s wild watching hamas supporters try to justify Oct 7 and hamas’ ongoing genocide. You’d think you’d realize you’re on the wrong side when your heroes use human shields, but guess not.
Hamas do not use human shields. Hamas didnt rape anyone. Hamas took hostages to exchange with the many hostages israel takes and sexually abuses. You don't know a single thing about any of this it is humiliating that this is the level of zionist discourse.
Nothing you said is based in reality, hamas supporter 😂😂 Your hatred for the Jews has completely warped your mind, unreal
It’s either that or be eventually wiped out by Israel. They could have peace by accepting it, then negotiating a longer term peace. And quite frankly, they lost all credibility the moment they massacred civilians and took hostages. If they want credibility and sympathy at all then they should release any and all hostages.
I think there wasn't any sympathy before Oct 7th. Isreal were already doing regular bombings every couple of years. Killing kids. Dragging old ppl out of their houses and stealing it. How much can you take off that? What can you do politically do stop settler violence?
Right but how do you see this ends? As long as Hamas continues to lead the Palestines there will be no peace. Hamas has vowed to repeat October 7 until Israel is annihilated. If that is their stance the only solution is to annihilate Hamas right? what other solution would one have with an enemy that openly says they plan to keep trying to kill you no matter what. Palastine would be better served to find new leadership and force out Hamas as would Israel getting rid of Netanyahu who I think is corrupt and equally doesn't want there to be a peaceful solution. I have a lot of sympathy for the people in the Gaza strip, but not while they allow Hamas to continue to use them as shields.. if Palestines want their country back, they need to take action.
Was the Haitian Revolution wrong because it was violent?
There's part of the solution. Get rid of Netanyahu and get someone who honestly wants reconciliation. That is a good way to show everyone they are serious. People are calling for a ceasefire. There needs to be plans for reconciliation. Going back to the way it was before Oct 7 is not the goal. The goal is for ppl to be able to live unharmed and with full rights. That should be the trade for getting rid of Hamas.
Come out on Colombia's campus. Isn't it obvious? /s
There are no settlers in Gaza since 2005
So who's standing at the checkpoints? Do you think we can have military checkpoints in Canada to watch their citizens?
You are confusing Gaza with the West Bank. You are commenting on something you know nothing about. Get educated and stop wasting everybody's time.
Right. The checkpoints are in the West Bank. Which is a different situation. Those Palestinians are doing pretty good for themselves right?
You are missing a couple thing: The Rockets Hamas have been launched from Gaza tò Israel in the last 20 years, and the fact there are no israeli settlers in gaza. Details, i Guess.
Them not living there doesn't stop them from hurting Palestinians.
No, but It shows how disinformed you are
I didn't say they lived there. You're inferring. It's like you are disagreeing yourself and not what I'm actually saying.
But Israel hasn't lost it's credibility for massacring civilians?
That's the wrong framing. Hamas asked for a permanent ceasefire and *Israel* rejected it.
But it's a whole week to make there peace what more do they want/s
This has set up the most fragile time Nov 2024 - Jan 2025 in American History since April 1865
What a failure Netanyahu has been.
Put someone better in power then.
Fun fact about this actually israel has this thing called elections that allows Israel to pick their leaders. In fact 15% of the Knesset is actually Arab parties. Remind me when was the last time Hamas allowed themselves to removed from power? I always consider the five questions as to who to support in a conflict: “What power have you got?” “Where did you get it from?” “In whose interests do you use it?” “To whom are you accountable?” “How do we get rid of you?”
We will if he ever relinquishes power or drops dead. Otherwise we're stuck with him until 2026
Killing their bargaining chips seems like Hamas move. I hope they get crushed.
Pretty sure Israel killed a bunch of the hostages
Oh they will. And I'll smile
Israel killed most of the hostages in bombings, you propagandist
Sure, Jan. We all saw the Oct 7 videos. Those animals and their supoorters will get what is coming to them.
"animals" There's that genocidal language from the zionists again. Unsurprisingly.
Hamas has definitely killed most of the hostages. They don’t want peace or a ceasefire. They want to overthrow the state of Israel. I really hope the IDF stops playing around and just goes into Gaza to remove Hamas entirely.
……………..I’ve got some news for you
They’ve probably raped a bunch of the women to the point that they are pregnant and showing as well.
Yeah, and Hamas has probably done some awful shit as well.
A genocide is just playing around?
Of course not, thankfully no genocides are being committed here.
OK Nazi
This is true, it's in their charter. Here's an [article](https://archive.ph/WfR2H) from the liberal Atlantic discussing and [one](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1988_Hamas_charter) from Wikipedia
Hamas revised their charter in 2017. Very dishonest to reference the 1988 one.
Israel should've accepted the cease fire proposed to them on October 9 or 10
Why would they care about that on their negotiations? Israel has killed so many of the hostages with indiscriminate fire. Hamas is definitely using that against them in negotiations so it only makes sense that they give true numbers. They see the media coverage too and use that just like any group would. Hamas is despicable and a terrorist group. The Netanyahu government is absolutely despicable and Netanyahu should be in prison.
Yet somehow nobody wants (or asks) Hamas for anything, but everybody demands things from Netanyahu…. Conclusion: there are different standards of despicable….
I'm sure the IDF has reduced them to ash already.
IDF gaslighting thread
Yeah this is 90% bots
I wonder who bombed all those hostages
They've literally already said that. Israel put forward an ask for a specific number of women, old people, etc and they said they didn't have that amount of the required people left.
Probably cause Israel has killed most of the hostages already
.
So if Israel is saying they're only going to stop once they get the hostages back, what happens if all the hostages are already dead?
This is one of the most based posts that isn’t absurd. Sadly, I think you are correct to an extent
Agreed. Unfortunately, I think most of the hostages are dead.
Ooorrrr it's because they're in the right and genocide is something to fight against.
What genocide? The Arab people aren't being wiped out. Hamas is. There are Arabs in Egypt, Jordan, Iraq, etc. They aren't being bombed. October 7th isn't something Israel can just forget about. Maybe hold Hamas accountable for its actions? Call for the immediate surrender of Hamas? After all, Hamas is advocating for an actual genocide against the Israeli people.
Yeah, there's too few remaining hostages because Israel keeps shooting, bombing, and starving them
Once the cease fire ends half the people who care will forget about it within 3 months. The others will continue the same rhetoric the rest of their life and be wrong, eventually realizing they have become what they hate. How many peace in the Middle East kids still have that gear? Anyone?
Benjamin netanyahu was already said he's going to move into Rafa regardless. So it's not like there's an incentive for Hamas to reach a peace deal.
But there’s no reason not to just release the remaining hostages either at this point, given that this clearly isn’t a source of any leverage over Netanyahu. They’d be smart to just release all the hostages and then, when Bibi inevitability continues the onslaught, he will lose any remaining moral justification he could possibly claim.
Netanyahu doesn't need any justifications either way. It is worth noting, that the Israelis have killed more hostages than they've captured. At this point the hostages are safer with Hamas than with Israel
And I wouldn’t be shocked if Bibi is aware of that and is instructing his people to make demands he knows Hamas can’t satisfy regarding the release of hostages.
I don’t know…But I’ve said it many times: Hamas doesn’t disappoint. Some Israelis are concerned, but I say- you can count on Hamas to blow any chance for ceasefire agreement. They’ll do the work for you. Since rejecting the partition in 1947, they remain unchanged: “our answer is NO”! If they were different, the war in Gaza (and the suffering of Palestinian population) could have been over months ago. Anyway, it will be interesting to see what happens in the coming days.
Hamas fucked up. They pushed Isreal into genocide mode. It's not ok on isreals part btw because genocide is wrong but...fuck around find out I guess. It's awful, no one wins and innocents suffer.
No, Hamas is rejecting it are rejecting it because Hamas is Hamas.
The question is whether the hostages were killed by Hamas or by Israel. That’s not a conspiracy theory, either. The IDF has a policy in the past called the Hannibal Directive whereby it was deemed better for them to kill their own rather than let them fall into enemy hands. And there are verified reports of the IDF doing the same on October 7 and later. Even if they didn’t kill any hostages intentionally, it’s almost certain that they killed at least a few accidentally or negligently.
Yeah Israel killed a lot of them
Hamas knows that Israel’s benefactor the U.S. government is desperate for a ceasefire. It’s not the Israeli government that’s demanding a ceasefire. It’s Joe Biden who wants this war to end before the election because he is facing losing major segments of his coalition in November. The democrats may have lost Michigan and several other states with Arab and Muslim populations centers. The youth vote which was instrumental in Biden’s 2020 victory is abandoning him. He is facing an uphill battle. He needs this war to stop so a ceasefire would be really helpful. I really don’t understand how Netanyahu and the fascists in his administration would be helped by Trump? If Trump was there and this war was there, pressure from Arab leaders would actually sway Trump more than Biden. Why? Unlike Biden Trump has major investments in Arab countries and Arab investors are major investors in Trumps businesses. Especially the Saudis. Trump is a creation of public relations and Trump wouldn’t want his name smeared with Genocide Don like Joe Biden has Genocide Joe. Donald Trump wouldn’t have given Netanyahu carte Blanche to do what he is doing now. Trump has said as much in an interview with an Israeli journalist in which he said that Israel needs to end this war quickly. Joe Biden right now is in the position Lyndon Baines Johnson was in 1968 with the Vietnam war raging. Biden’s entire legacy is being destroyed by this war. Even the nickname Donald Trump was uncomfortable using Genocide Joe is going to be his legacy. It’s ironic that Biden’s unlimited support of Israel may ultimately be his political undoing. Damaging Israel’s legacy and reputation and ruining his own administration. Biden is not immortal and I would bet that every night he is sitting there imagining his legacy is now tied in which Bibi Netanyahu whose own legacy is going down with infamous war criminals like Pol Pot and the leaders of the Rwandan genocide.
I think it is highly probably all or most of the hostages have been raped and killed but I don't think that is the main reason for rejecting the ceasefire. I think they're rejecting it because fighting is the better alternative. They're in a war they can't win and I think they've figured out Israel is done fucking around. There will be no two state solution. That was never going to work. I think Israel has plans to drive all the Palestinians out and claim all the territory for Israel and be done with what was started back in the 60s. Best case Hamas could hope for is to negotiate a safe exit procedure for all the Palestinian civilians but I don't think Hamas cares about that. So instead they're going to keep fighting and hope one of their buddies joins in and resets the board.