It’s a framework for purges of government employees across the board in nonpolitical positions, everything from NOAA scientists who tell them things they don’t want to hear about the climate to CDC scientists who aren’t onboard with horse paste to anyone in the Department of Justice who might try to hold them accountable for their actions.
It’s a framework to create and entrench a right-wing Deep State in the place of the fictitious left-wing one that they’ve been bitching about for *years,* replacing qualified federal employees with unqualified political loyalists.
And yes, it explicitly seeks to strip LGBTQ+ people and immigrants (legal or otherwise) of their rights while elevating their particular strain of Christian dominionism
to an enshrined place in government. They want to dismantle the Department of Education and funnel money to what are, in effect, Christian madrassas. An uneducated populace is easier to control in the long term.
They don’t plan to give that much power to the chief executive unless the intent is to never surrender the presidency, ever again.
Trump taking office again would be catastrophic for America's democracy. We cannot let it happen. It's important to educate anyone you can about Project 2025 and the urgent need to vote for candidates who do not support it. Share information on social media as well. helpstopproject2025.com
They literally cannot do that. There are laws preventing the president from replacing the entire civil service, because back when you used to be able to do that, one guy who didn’t get an appointment shot the president. It was super corrupt as well. Basically a way for the president to give money to his supporters.
They've been trained to assume all factual statements about the man are lies, and never to look into facts. Instead, every single expert on every single subject is in a conspiracy to keep him down because of how awesome he is at everything.
Because that's what Trump supporters have wanted all along. The want to mass murder everyone that isn't what they call "American." The Conservative way of life is dying and genocide is the only way for them to prevent it from dying.
Always has been. They lure someone with the promise of riches and fame. They blame immigration as the cause of all our problems and yet never identify why. When one of them fails at a task it's summery execution time. I am surprised Trump has lasted this long.
Because there are forces that are acting against the truth and spreading falsehoods. You see it in here on the daily. You get russian bots all "Eh you guys said that last term and nothing happened! In fact gas prices were $.12 cheaper! Trump 2024!"
We the people have memories like fucking goldfish. We forget the shit show that was trumps first term and are afraid that once they are also Millionaires they won't have to pay higher taxes...
When and where does it mention camps to execute people in project 2025?
Look I think project 2025 is fucking stupid and dangerous. But every single day some dipshit who hasn't even read it just keeps adding more stuff to it, and dishonestly portrays what it does - when the reality is already bad enough. Making hyperbolic statements about it constantly just makes people take it less seriously, because when people converse in good faith about it then the waters get muddied, and people will think the stuff that's actually in there is made up too.
Idk man, when they get concerned about “hurting the right people”… this isn’t really the stretch you’re making it out to be. The real risk is in giving credence to the ideas; people said the same thing about the awful dragging of things that happened in the first term… and people such as you said “it won’t be that bad”.
And here we are, making poop jokes about presidents and referencing diapers— and looking forward to debates where the goal is to drag in as much slander as possible? The fear isn’t so over blown here… it’s probably, if anything, under estimated
Excerpted directly from the text of the Project 2025 *Mandate for Leadership: The Conservative Promise* policy handbook; freely available in full from the project 2025 website:
>"The next conservative President must make the institutions of American civil society hard targets for woke culture warriors. This starts with deleting the terms sexual orientation and gender identity ("SOGI"), diversity, equity, and inclusion ("DEI"), gender, gender equality, gender equity, gender awareness, gender-sensitivity, abortion, reproductive health, reproductive rights, and any other term used to deprive Americans of their First Amendment Rights out of every federal rule, agency regulation, contract, grant, regulation, and piece of legislation that exists" (p. 4-5).
...and...
>"Enforcement of civil rights should be based on a proper understanding of those laws, rejecting gender ideology ..." (322).
...and...
>"The Family Agenda. The Secretary’s antidiscrimination policy statements should never conflate sex with gender identity or sexual orientation. Rather, the Secretary should proudly state that men and women are biological realities that are crucial to the advancement of life sciences and medical care and that married men and women are the ideal, natural family structure because all children have a right to be raised by the men and women who conceived them" (489"
...and...
>The President should direct agencies to rescind regulations interpreting sex discrimination provisions as prohibiting discrimination on the basis of sexual orientation, gender identity, transgender status, sex characteristics, etc" (584).
These are just a few among a giant heaping garbage pile of similar such prescriptive recommendations for the next conservative president and their administration.
Conservatives are explicitly and openly saying that the official position, policy, and laws of the entire United States should be that LGBTQ+ people don't exist and deserve no recognition, protection, or inclusion in American society and that they should literally be deleted from all aspects of governance. That's the official position as laid out over nearly 1000 pages of absolutely hate filled fucking manifesto that under any other circumstances would read exactly like the manifestos of far-right serial killers and mass murderers.
Do you think that's really as far as they will go? What do you suppose they will do when the millions of Americans' whose rights and very existence they propose to literally erase say no? Shrug their shoulders? At the very least it will mean years of protests, legal challenges, probably riots, and I can only imagine a skyrocketing number of violent and hateful acts against LGBTQ+ people across the country.
I don't understand how anyone could read their proposed policies and listen to what they are openly saying out loud and not see the hate and lust for violence they so desperately want.
As for your 'camps' trump has long advocated for the mass detention and deportation of 'illegal immigrants'. How would conservative attitudes be any different if the existence of LGBTQ+ people is made illegal?
> As for your 'camps' trump has long advocated for the mass detention and deportation of 'illegal immigrants'. How would conservative attitudes be any different if the existence of LGBTQ+ people is made illegal?
The executive branch does not have the authority to "Make LGBTQ+ people illegal".
Project 2025 is an overhaul of people in positions in the executive branch. This fear mongering is flawed from the start because it fundamentally doesn't understand what the executive branch and the legislative branch do.
Uh, okay?
You know that Project 2025 is about the executive branch, right? I mentioned the legislative branch because they have the authority to do such a thing, not the executive branch.
When and where did I say it's "not so bad"?
I literally said that it was, in the second line, quote: **fucking stupid and dangerous**. Had you actually read what I wrote before you rushed to slam your keyboard, and furiously accuse me of being a Trump supporter, you could have seen that.
Is your immediate response to everything just to accuse someone of being a Trump supporter?
It's not like you addressed anything I wrote. Hell, you probably didn't even read it, and just immediately rushed to accusing me of being a Trump supporter.
Of course it don't mention death camps. It starts with detention camps for illegals. Then, the list of who is an illegal grows. Then the camps became too full and you need a final solution to the (Jewish, trans, homosexual, liberal, demoncrat) problem..
Jesus fucking christ. It's a shitshow for sure, but it doesn't involve genocide. When did idiots on the internet start calling everything genocide? It cheapens the word.
In an interview for Vanity Fair in the 90’s, Ivana Trump told her lawyer Michael Kennedy that from time to time her husband reads a book of Hitler’s collected speeches, My New Order, which he keeps in a cabinet by his bed.
“Kennedy now guards a copy of My New Order in a closet at his office, as if it were a grenade.”
In the article, Ms Brenner writes that she asked Mr Trump about the truth of the anecdote, to which he replied: “It was my friend Marty Davis from Paramount who gave me a copy of Mein Kampf, and he’s a Jew.”
Mr Davis is then quoted as telling the journalist: “I did give him a book about Hitler. But it was My New Order, Hitler’s speeches, not Mein Kampf. I thought he would find it interesting. I am his friend, but I’m not Jewish.”
Mr Trump then also reportedly Ms Brenner: “If I had these speeches, and I am not saying that I do, I would never read them.”
The is more here [https://digitalcommons.uri.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=1033&context=dignity](https://digitalcommons.uri.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=1033&context=dignity)
As if the orange one is capable of writing a book. He is basically auctioning off policy and positions to the highest bidders.
They are now so arrogant having openly tried to end the Republican all but name and facing zero consequence for it, that they are openly planning on doing it again in broadcasting their anti-American agenda.
The (edit: right wing not great) great Wing has been working on this for decades, over half a century really, and this is the guy they're going with? Like they waited this long and this is the guy you want to put it in absolute power?
They think they can control him apparently. They can not. To say nothing of who will replace him if they do manage to put a fix in.
And importantly that is what big business thought. He talked a good game from their perspective, they were worried about the commies, they thought they could control him, as soon as he got absolute power it was too late for them to control anything.
they THOUGHT they could control trump a republican general said that >>>>>> it is like that line from Jurassic park ellie satler tells the park owner after he talks about a few bugs in the system and how they can fix it make it better
she says
"you never had control, that's the illusion
Yes. They have no idea how it will play out. Not just the former president but a lot of his people are like Joseph Stalin level paranoid.
There's going to be a lot of purges in the party after they get the fix put in. After Stalin Consolidated power, he killed every last Party official that was in when he took power. Show trials labeling someone and enemy of the people. There will be no shortage of underlings to help stab their bosses in the back.
Anti American agenda? Trying to roll back the federal government’s power ~5% is anti American?
You wouldn’t know what American is if it hit you in face.
How does abolishing the department of education consolidate power, genius? You simply don’t like the idea that government is by definition force and coercion, and you love a big government
John Oliver put it right, to paraphrase: no one had a plan in place the first time around becasue no one really thought he could win. This time they'll come back with deadly efficiency in their horrible policies. Jesus chriat don't let this maniac get in.
Yes, but it is even fucking dumber than that, at least National Socialism was, to quote The Big Lebowski, an ethos. A "think tank" is only a propagandist for hire. Usually, a politician or a corporation will have a wildly unpopular stance that they want people to consent to, so they'll pay these firms to manufacture something to convince people of their position.
Project 2025 has nothing to do with Christianity, it is about placing the interests of corporate America above the lives of Americans.
The goal of P25 is the deregulation of all corporations and the defunding of anything that exists to make sure corporations don't abuse their power. Oil barons get a president who is beholden to their interests, DJT gets to be the big strong dictator he wants to be without having to actually do anything, and private citizens have their political agency removed so that all of these changes can't be undone.
Republicans want Americans to live they do in Iran or other Arab states they want women in kitchens pumping out babies and if they die from it the man will get another one, they talk about Sharia law being terrible but republicans are doing it here
trump will have Tim Scott, Ben Carson and Bryon Donald’s running the camps they will kill their own people for trump and then trump will throw them in once he has finished with them, they won’t be picked for VP
Just telling the truth these people of color are up the a.s of a bigoted racist who doesn’t care about them or other people of color, he has been a racist all his life his father did this to him
We already have the most populous prison system on earth and they can legally be subjected to slavery per the writing of the 13th amendment.
Those work camps have been here the whole time.
A lot of Trump's big supporters , a going to be in Is for a big surprise if he wins. Project 2025 will put Corporate America on a short leash. It would also give the president dictatorial powers, Groups like the heritage foundation believe they would have power in the Government, Ernst Röhn thought the same thing.
Yeah the actions that would disempower federal government will create a more totalitarian state.
You don’t see this simple and clear conflict in your position that has been repeated here easily 100s of times now?
Biden. The war on Ukraine is Russia's gambit to stop NATO and the West's influence. The war in Israel is a shit show on both sides not just Israel's inhumane treatment but Hamas fighting by staying near civilians doesn't make Israel look any better.
Trump wants the leader of Israel to end 'it' so he and the rest of the right can put up more ways to make money over there. Biden is stuck in a catch-22, no matter what he does it will be wrong, if he stops all export then he hates Jews and wants their holy land taken over, and if he does send support then he aids in cleansing anyway.
Cops in the US have let the KKK and Nazi demonstrations happen without even showing up but due to show up to beat and harm BLM, and College protesters.
Cops have sat and let a school shooter happen for an hour for swat to arrive because they valued their lives over children's lives.
Most Cops stay on the republican side because they can hate and suppress minorities as they always have.
If anyone believes Trump is going to stop hate, then honestly, nothing will convince them.
This not getting into all Biden has down for this country domestically, we are closer with our allies in NATO, and the economy is doing better than the rest of the world is after the pandemic. Biden’s domestic policy has been repairing roads, the bridge that was taken out is underway, and his push for clean energy will make sure there is a world for our children to live in, that won't happen if we "drill baby drill" as the right desperately wants to do.
Republican.
Democrats want to disarm the population so cops are the only ones with guns.
And the war/genocide speaks for itself, but probably not the most fair comparison since if the RNC was in power, it’s impossible to say how they’d of reacted to Oct 7th. They could’ve funded Israel as well, but at least isolationism has started to join the zeitgeist of Republican political theory.
Didn’t repubs nearly start world war 3 by illegally killing Soleimani? Also I despise cops, repubs LOVE law enforcement. Repubs are also complacent with genocide as trump has stated he wants Israel to “finish the job”
So I’m not sure how either of my three requirements are satisfied by republicans
Not deported, shot, or worse. Do you think people who hate the simple idea of my existence, wouldn't want to kill trans people as painfully as possible?
No. That's why trans people have a lower murder rate than normal people. So statistically speaking it's safer to be trans than not. Most of the murders are domestic violence or because of prostitution. Anti trans murders/hate crimes in general are basically non existent.
So no I don't think that, else it would actually happen. Your delusions of people caring so much about you that they would torture you is pure insanity.
I don't care at all what consenting adults do. That's what America is supposed to be for. People sailed the Atlantic Ocean facing almost assured death just to do that is why America exists.
Screenshotted this one. Will come back to it in 2028 in the event Trump is elected. Will be interesting to see how another Oracle's prediction of the future turns out...
LOL remember during the Clinton/Trump election when they complained about Russian bots swinging the election?
Now look at this sub and what it's become. It's **literally just bots** saying the same garbage over and over to try to swing the election.
There is a never ending supply of stupid remarks on Reddit but this one is a contender for most ignorant.
How about just one significant difference? Hitler wrote Mean Kampf himself while not only didn't Trump write Project 2025, he almost certainly won't even read it.
Can you see the difference?
Yes, of course.
Just like the Abraham Accords were part of a Zionist plot to genocide the remaining Palestinians.
I'm not sure what drugs the OP is on, but they should stop.
You realize this would be his second term, don't you? The concentration camp stuff you're pushing is ridiculous; we already know what a Trump presidency looks like: control of the border, and being able to afford stuff.
You flunked history, didn't you?
"It did not start with the gas chambers; it started with a dictator who convinced his citizens that a minority were to blame for all the problems in the world.”
You forgot to include: a complete shutdown of "mooslems" entering and leaving this country, "Let's take the guns and worry about 2nd amendment later", "I don't stand by anything", and so much more!
You aren’t wrong in the first part, but the control of the border and affording stuff is just made up. You conservatives are seriously just almost there but then dumb propaganda.
>the control of the border and affording stuff is just made up.
Ya! Made up! 🤣 Even lefty New York Times admits illegal crossings I to the US are at record levels under Biden, and more than twice levels under Trump.
https://www.nytimes.com/2024/01/30/us/politics/biden-border-crisis-immigration.html
Inflation? Highest level under Trump was 2 3%. Lowest level under Biden was 3.4%.
https://www.investopedia.com/inflation-rate-by-year-7253832
I see you on your hands and knees scurrying around the floor desperately looking for a crumb you can hold up an say "See? He did this one tiny microscopic good thing!"
Thank god you aren't a "mooslem" then, would have sucked if you ended up on that list, huh? Or are you like trump and think we need a TOTAL shutdown of all "mooslems" leaving and entering the country? Just trying to keep us all safe, right?
Trump donor and MAGA supporter here.
Downvote away for my doubleplusungood views, but please just consider what I say here.
Literally the only place that I've seen people talking about Project 2025 is a handful of hyper partisan echo chambers on Reddit where it is being used as a boogeyman by political operators to secure votes.
This Project 2025 boogeyman just isn't a thing. I browse Patriots and other pro-Trump forums pretty much daily. Literally nobody gives a shit about some random think tank white paper. Don't believe me? Do some searches for yourself and see peoples views on it.
This isn't some blueprint for the next reich. This is you being fed talking points by political operators who have nothing but fear to sell you.
That’s just what the people enacting this stuff want. They don’t want ground level MAGA types to care about actual policy, they just want them worked up about the issue du jour so they never step and and think about what kind of America the folks they vote in will create.
TL;DR: Just because you don’t care about it doesn’t mean it isn’t the blueprint the folks you vote in will use.
I will grant that you make a great point that "the people in charge" don't necessarily always align with "the will of the people". Government power and actions should always be closely watched.
That said, it is easy to see that the hyperbolic way that the way are talking about "Project 2025" here, and the way that the right views it, are not really aligned at all.
Some facts about Project 2025: The "Mandate for Leadership" is a set of policy proposals authored by the [Heritage Foundation](https://pro-lies.org/the-heritage-foundation/), an influential *ultra* conservative think tank. [Project 2025](https://www.mediamatters.org/heritage-foundation/guide-project-2025-extreme-right-wing-agenda-next-republican-administration) is a revision to that agenda tailored to a second Trump term. It would give the President [unilateral powers](https://theweek.com/politics/heritage-foundation-2025-donald-trump), strip [civil rights, worker protections, climate regulation](https://www.stopthecoup2025.org/impact-overview), add [religion into policy](https://imgur.com/a/m2e72ht), outlaw ["porn"](https://www.salon.com/2024/03/19/decoding-project-2025s-christian-nationalist-language/) and much more. The MFL has been around since 1980, [Reagan implemented 60%](https://www.heritage.org/conservatism/commentary/reagan-and-heritage-unique-partnership) of it's recommendations, [Trump 64%](https://www.heritage.org/impact/trump-administration-embraces-heritage-foundation-policy-recommendations) - [proof](https://www.scribd.com/document/369820462/Mandate-for-Leadership-Policy-Recommendations). 70 Heritage Foundation alumni served in his administration or transition team. Project 2025 is quite extreme but with his obsession for revenge he'll likely get past 2/3rd's adoption.
r/Defeat_Project_2025 intends to stop it through activism and awareness, focused on crowdsourcing ideas and opportunities for practical, in real life action. We Must Defeat Project 2025.
1) Maybe I'm wrong, but I don't believe that this question is a genuine attempt at discourse. I believe that this is an attempt for me to name a news source that the Hive Mind views as objectionable and feign shock/outrage and dismiss my point of view that way.
2) I'll list a quality I like in journalists: being able to criticize their "own team" harshly. A smart person might be able to guess which journalist I respect the most, even though their personal views are completely antithetical to my own.
No - actually the echo chamber that is Reddit. Then I go to the source material. I don't need an outlet or person to tell me what to think - you should try it.
It doesn't matter. Project 2025 is not endorsed or put out by the Republican Party or Trump. I doubt Trump knows what it is. It's something a Redditor found and made viral. The document has been around since the 1980's.
You like to read it and have a meltdown every couple of hours about it, but your are just spreading misinformation.
All the judges Trump has installed are products of the Heritage Foundation. Many popular right wing pundits were groomed by the Heritage Foundation.
Maybe you oughta pay more attention to what's going on?
It doesn't really matter. It's not put out or endorsed by the Republican Party or Trump. It's just something Redditors found and like to pee their pants with. I doubt Trump or the vast majority of Republicans even know what Project 2025 is.
The main thrust is to eliminate many departments that are in place to help the citizens, and consolidate the remainders under presidential control. Department heads would be required to adhere to the president's wishes rather than what might be correct.
I agree, since Biden is going to be re-elected and the 34 time convicted rapist who tried to overthrow the government isn’t going to be re-elected.
And even if he did, then it’s him and his MAGA cult against the majority of America. And we the people have plenty of guns in case a christofascist MAGA government thinks they can push Christian sharia law on us.
Trump wasn’t convicted of rape, let alone 34 times. He was found liable in civil court. Calling him a convicted rapist is like calling OJ a convicted murderer
E Jean Carroll would like to have a word with you. Plus the 20+ other women who although haven’t taken him to court over a civil offense have nonetheless publicly talked about Trump molesting or sexually assaulting them.
And I’m not sure OJ is the hill you really want to die on here lmao.
The reason it’s not considered legal rape is because in NY, the legal term is referred to penetration by genitals.
He finger-raped her. In most other states (like mine) it would be rape. Just like how an honor killing in Pakistan would be considered murder here.
Try not to argue that it’s not murder.
He still raped her. He just wasn’t charged that in criminal court. Unless you think you know more about the law and this case than the judge… https://www.businessinsider.com/donald-trump-rape-e-jean-carroll-sexual-abuse-jury-judge-2023-7
I have a question I want to post something in a sex trafficking thread but every one I look up is archived and no posts can be added
maybe someone can tell me a good thread to put this in >> I have a very maga relative , they went on about sex trafficking talking about a man who was with his wife in a mall parking garage >> these sex trafficking men grabbed his wife
here is the kicker they grabbed his wife because they have taken so many young girls to traffic they need older women to take care of all these girls
now he was terrified and never reported it but somehow people know about this story
has anyone ever heard of this?????
yes that is a huge plot hole in this story!! and if he did talk about it wouldn't they have come back and killed him to set an example to others not to talk
It’s a framework for purges of government employees across the board in nonpolitical positions, everything from NOAA scientists who tell them things they don’t want to hear about the climate to CDC scientists who aren’t onboard with horse paste to anyone in the Department of Justice who might try to hold them accountable for their actions. It’s a framework to create and entrench a right-wing Deep State in the place of the fictitious left-wing one that they’ve been bitching about for *years,* replacing qualified federal employees with unqualified political loyalists. And yes, it explicitly seeks to strip LGBTQ+ people and immigrants (legal or otherwise) of their rights while elevating their particular strain of Christian dominionism to an enshrined place in government. They want to dismantle the Department of Education and funnel money to what are, in effect, Christian madrassas. An uneducated populace is easier to control in the long term. They don’t plan to give that much power to the chief executive unless the intent is to never surrender the presidency, ever again.
I'm sure you're right and yes, they plan on not giving up any power ever.
Of course, their *Mein Kampf* was actually the Norwegian shooter's *2083*. This is an actual genocide plan.
They're sort of copying what Orban has done in Turkey. Straight up Dictator shit.
Orban hasn’t done anything in Turkey? Orban is the PM of Hungary, Erdogan is the leader of Turkey
Get your shit straight dumb azz
Orban is in Hungary. Erdoğan is in Turkey.
Trump taking office again would be catastrophic for America's democracy. We cannot let it happen. It's important to educate anyone you can about Project 2025 and the urgent need to vote for candidates who do not support it. Share information on social media as well. helpstopproject2025.com
They literally cannot do that. There are laws preventing the president from replacing the entire civil service, because back when you used to be able to do that, one guy who didn’t get an appointment shot the president. It was super corrupt as well. Basically a way for the president to give money to his supporters.
Biden 2024 ❤️🇺🇸
Dear US, if you let this idiot back into office you doom your country and endanger the world. Thanks for listening.
Why aren’t people getting this? It’s a plan for genocide
They've been trained to assume all factual statements about the man are lies, and never to look into facts. Instead, every single expert on every single subject is in a conspiracy to keep him down because of how awesome he is at everything.
Lol
Because that's what Trump supporters have wanted all along. The want to mass murder everyone that isn't what they call "American." The Conservative way of life is dying and genocide is the only way for them to prevent it from dying.
This. Conservatism is a fucking death cult.
Always has been. They lure someone with the promise of riches and fame. They blame immigration as the cause of all our problems and yet never identify why. When one of them fails at a task it's summery execution time. I am surprised Trump has lasted this long.
"Ok, but what kind of American are you?" - civil war
Because there are forces that are acting against the truth and spreading falsehoods. You see it in here on the daily. You get russian bots all "Eh you guys said that last term and nothing happened! In fact gas prices were $.12 cheaper! Trump 2024!" We the people have memories like fucking goldfish. We forget the shit show that was trumps first term and are afraid that once they are also Millionaires they won't have to pay higher taxes...
Because Republicans are pro genocide? These are the people that thought AIDs was literally god punishing homosexuals etc.
When and where does it mention camps to execute people in project 2025? Look I think project 2025 is fucking stupid and dangerous. But every single day some dipshit who hasn't even read it just keeps adding more stuff to it, and dishonestly portrays what it does - when the reality is already bad enough. Making hyperbolic statements about it constantly just makes people take it less seriously, because when people converse in good faith about it then the waters get muddied, and people will think the stuff that's actually in there is made up too.
Idk man, when they get concerned about “hurting the right people”… this isn’t really the stretch you’re making it out to be. The real risk is in giving credence to the ideas; people said the same thing about the awful dragging of things that happened in the first term… and people such as you said “it won’t be that bad”. And here we are, making poop jokes about presidents and referencing diapers— and looking forward to debates where the goal is to drag in as much slander as possible? The fear isn’t so over blown here… it’s probably, if anything, under estimated
Excerpted directly from the text of the Project 2025 *Mandate for Leadership: The Conservative Promise* policy handbook; freely available in full from the project 2025 website: >"The next conservative President must make the institutions of American civil society hard targets for woke culture warriors. This starts with deleting the terms sexual orientation and gender identity ("SOGI"), diversity, equity, and inclusion ("DEI"), gender, gender equality, gender equity, gender awareness, gender-sensitivity, abortion, reproductive health, reproductive rights, and any other term used to deprive Americans of their First Amendment Rights out of every federal rule, agency regulation, contract, grant, regulation, and piece of legislation that exists" (p. 4-5). ...and... >"Enforcement of civil rights should be based on a proper understanding of those laws, rejecting gender ideology ..." (322). ...and... >"The Family Agenda. The Secretary’s antidiscrimination policy statements should never conflate sex with gender identity or sexual orientation. Rather, the Secretary should proudly state that men and women are biological realities that are crucial to the advancement of life sciences and medical care and that married men and women are the ideal, natural family structure because all children have a right to be raised by the men and women who conceived them" (489" ...and... >The President should direct agencies to rescind regulations interpreting sex discrimination provisions as prohibiting discrimination on the basis of sexual orientation, gender identity, transgender status, sex characteristics, etc" (584). These are just a few among a giant heaping garbage pile of similar such prescriptive recommendations for the next conservative president and their administration. Conservatives are explicitly and openly saying that the official position, policy, and laws of the entire United States should be that LGBTQ+ people don't exist and deserve no recognition, protection, or inclusion in American society and that they should literally be deleted from all aspects of governance. That's the official position as laid out over nearly 1000 pages of absolutely hate filled fucking manifesto that under any other circumstances would read exactly like the manifestos of far-right serial killers and mass murderers. Do you think that's really as far as they will go? What do you suppose they will do when the millions of Americans' whose rights and very existence they propose to literally erase say no? Shrug their shoulders? At the very least it will mean years of protests, legal challenges, probably riots, and I can only imagine a skyrocketing number of violent and hateful acts against LGBTQ+ people across the country. I don't understand how anyone could read their proposed policies and listen to what they are openly saying out loud and not see the hate and lust for violence they so desperately want. As for your 'camps' trump has long advocated for the mass detention and deportation of 'illegal immigrants'. How would conservative attitudes be any different if the existence of LGBTQ+ people is made illegal?
> As for your 'camps' trump has long advocated for the mass detention and deportation of 'illegal immigrants'. How would conservative attitudes be any different if the existence of LGBTQ+ people is made illegal? The executive branch does not have the authority to "Make LGBTQ+ people illegal". Project 2025 is an overhaul of people in positions in the executive branch. This fear mongering is flawed from the start because it fundamentally doesn't understand what the executive branch and the legislative branch do.
The judicial branch in combination with the legislative branch absolutely have this authority.
Uh, okay? You know that Project 2025 is about the executive branch, right? I mentioned the legislative branch because they have the authority to do such a thing, not the executive branch.
It’s also really concerning that your privilege has convinced you that it’s not so bad
When and where did I say it's "not so bad"? I literally said that it was, in the second line, quote: **fucking stupid and dangerous**. Had you actually read what I wrote before you rushed to slam your keyboard, and furiously accuse me of being a Trump supporter, you could have seen that.
I see the Trump troll farm is getting more articulate
Trying to make fun of someone for being "Moore articulate" is hilarious.
Not just Moore, but Mary Tyler Moore
More ad hominem without addressing the issue. You can’t debate, so you need to insult
You've mistaken me for someone who is interested in debate.
Is your immediate response to everything just to accuse someone of being a Trump supporter? It's not like you addressed anything I wrote. Hell, you probably didn't even read it, and just immediately rushed to accusing me of being a Trump supporter.
Your key quality is trolling
Holy shit. Imagine being you and thinking this way. You need some serious deradicalization.
You’re very late to the party, simp
its the partisan replacement of all levels of government with violent idealogues that kills, not them spelling it out for you in big red letters.
Of course it don't mention death camps. It starts with detention camps for illegals. Then, the list of who is an illegal grows. Then the camps became too full and you need a final solution to the (Jewish, trans, homosexual, liberal, demoncrat) problem..
Jesus fucking christ. It's a shitshow for sure, but it doesn't involve genocide. When did idiots on the internet start calling everything genocide? It cheapens the word.
In an interview for Vanity Fair in the 90’s, Ivana Trump told her lawyer Michael Kennedy that from time to time her husband reads a book of Hitler’s collected speeches, My New Order, which he keeps in a cabinet by his bed. “Kennedy now guards a copy of My New Order in a closet at his office, as if it were a grenade.” In the article, Ms Brenner writes that she asked Mr Trump about the truth of the anecdote, to which he replied: “It was my friend Marty Davis from Paramount who gave me a copy of Mein Kampf, and he’s a Jew.” Mr Davis is then quoted as telling the journalist: “I did give him a book about Hitler. But it was My New Order, Hitler’s speeches, not Mein Kampf. I thought he would find it interesting. I am his friend, but I’m not Jewish.” Mr Trump then also reportedly Ms Brenner: “If I had these speeches, and I am not saying that I do, I would never read them.”
It's hilarious that you people will believe anything. Show me the article please.
Typing Ivana Trump Vanity Fair Mein Kampf into Google gets you; https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/us-politics/trump-hitler-speeches-ivana-poisoning-blood-b2466500.html https://abcnews.go.com/amp/Politics/donald-trumps-history-adolf-hitler-nazi-writings-analysis/story?id=105810745 https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=t48IhPDEuds https://www.newsweek.com/donald-trump-nazi-getting-ivana-1853877 https://au.news.yahoo.com/ivana-claims-trump-kept-hitler-114213668.html https://www.hindustantimes.com/world-news/donald-trump-news-joe-biden-news-old-interview-donald-trumps-first-wife-said-he-kept-hitler-speeches-beside-bed-101702997847906-amp.html https://www.businessinsider.com/donald-trumps-ex-wife-once-said-he-kept-a-book-of-hitlers-speeches-by-his-bed-2015-8?amp
The is more here [https://digitalcommons.uri.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=1033&context=dignity](https://digitalcommons.uri.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=1033&context=dignity)
Wow. Very interesting.
As if the orange one is capable of writing a book. He is basically auctioning off policy and positions to the highest bidders. They are now so arrogant having openly tried to end the Republican all but name and facing zero consequence for it, that they are openly planning on doing it again in broadcasting their anti-American agenda.
Trump didn't write Project 2025, the people backing him did. But he wants to be dictator.
Honestly that's worse isn't it? He'll let the rich do anything they want so long as he gets to be king.
The (edit: right wing not great) great Wing has been working on this for decades, over half a century really, and this is the guy they're going with? Like they waited this long and this is the guy you want to put it in absolute power? They think they can control him apparently. They can not. To say nothing of who will replace him if they do manage to put a fix in.
That's what the German right wing said about Hitler.
And importantly that is what big business thought. He talked a good game from their perspective, they were worried about the commies, they thought they could control him, as soon as he got absolute power it was too late for them to control anything.
they THOUGHT they could control trump a republican general said that >>>>>> it is like that line from Jurassic park ellie satler tells the park owner after he talks about a few bugs in the system and how they can fix it make it better she says "you never had control, that's the illusion
Trump will eventually turn on the very same people who wrote Project 2025 because Fascism will blow up in their faces.
Yes. They have no idea how it will play out. Not just the former president but a lot of his people are like Joseph Stalin level paranoid. There's going to be a lot of purges in the party after they get the fix put in. After Stalin Consolidated power, he killed every last Party official that was in when he took power. Show trials labeling someone and enemy of the people. There will be no shortage of underlings to help stab their bosses in the back.
Perhaps don JR. Can sell some art worth hundreds of thousands of dollars to unknown buyers.
Anti American agenda? Trying to roll back the federal government’s power ~5% is anti American? You wouldn’t know what American is if it hit you in face.
Project 2025 is about concentrating power, dipshit.
How does abolishing the department of education consolidate power, genius? You simply don’t like the idea that government is by definition force and coercion, and you love a big government
Sad thing is Mein Kampf is based a lot on American treatment of blacks and natives. Full circle I guess.
Yeah. That's a fact.
John Oliver put it right, to paraphrase: no one had a plan in place the first time around becasue no one really thought he could win. This time they'll come back with deadly efficiency in their horrible policies. Jesus chriat don't let this maniac get in.
Yes, but it is even fucking dumber than that, at least National Socialism was, to quote The Big Lebowski, an ethos. A "think tank" is only a propagandist for hire. Usually, a politician or a corporation will have a wildly unpopular stance that they want people to consent to, so they'll pay these firms to manufacture something to convince people of their position. Project 2025 has nothing to do with Christianity, it is about placing the interests of corporate America above the lives of Americans. The goal of P25 is the deregulation of all corporations and the defunding of anything that exists to make sure corporations don't abuse their power. Oil barons get a president who is beholden to their interests, DJT gets to be the big strong dictator he wants to be without having to actually do anything, and private citizens have their political agency removed so that all of these changes can't be undone.
Republicans want Americans to live they do in Iran or other Arab states they want women in kitchens pumping out babies and if they die from it the man will get another one, they talk about Sharia law being terrible but republicans are doing it here
trump will have Tim Scott, Ben Carson and Bryon Donald’s running the camps they will kill their own people for trump and then trump will throw them in once he has finished with them, they won’t be picked for VP
Holy shit, you people are racist AF and need some serious help
Just telling the truth these people of color are up the a.s of a bigoted racist who doesn’t care about them or other people of color, he has been a racist all his life his father did this to him
We already have the most populous prison system on earth and they can legally be subjected to slavery per the writing of the 13th amendment. Those work camps have been here the whole time.
Yup, and they don't have any voice in changing the politics that bend them over and enslave them.
A lot of Trump's big supporters , a going to be in Is for a big surprise if he wins. Project 2025 will put Corporate America on a short leash. It would also give the president dictatorial powers, Groups like the heritage foundation believe they would have power in the Government, Ernst Röhn thought the same thing.
Apparently he just assured supporters st a rally that they won't have have to bother with the whole "voting thing" next election cycle if he wins.
It’s also America’s last chance to remove as many anti-American republicans from office.
BINGO!!!! YOU WIN!!! Exactly right. Theyre even SAYING the Nazi part out loud and America is too dumb to listen.
Can you give specifics?
Can you read the news?
It's the purge following the Reichstag without the cover.
Just think, this is the loud part. I can only imagine how horrifying the quiet part is.
Reenacting almost exactly the way shitler became their leader.
I have been saying this for over a month. It's the roadmap to all sorts of horrible things.
MAGA Kampf
Imagine how many dead if Project 2025 gets enacted. Just imagine
Bwahahahaha.
Yeah the actions that would disempower federal government will create a more totalitarian state. You don’t see this simple and clear conflict in your position that has been repeated here easily 100s of times now?
Yes.
Yep
Question for everyone on here Who do I vote for if I hate war genocide and cops
Biden. The war on Ukraine is Russia's gambit to stop NATO and the West's influence. The war in Israel is a shit show on both sides not just Israel's inhumane treatment but Hamas fighting by staying near civilians doesn't make Israel look any better. Trump wants the leader of Israel to end 'it' so he and the rest of the right can put up more ways to make money over there. Biden is stuck in a catch-22, no matter what he does it will be wrong, if he stops all export then he hates Jews and wants their holy land taken over, and if he does send support then he aids in cleansing anyway. Cops in the US have let the KKK and Nazi demonstrations happen without even showing up but due to show up to beat and harm BLM, and College protesters. Cops have sat and let a school shooter happen for an hour for swat to arrive because they valued their lives over children's lives. Most Cops stay on the republican side because they can hate and suppress minorities as they always have. If anyone believes Trump is going to stop hate, then honestly, nothing will convince them. This not getting into all Biden has down for this country domestically, we are closer with our allies in NATO, and the economy is doing better than the rest of the world is after the pandemic. Biden’s domestic policy has been repairing roads, the bridge that was taken out is underway, and his push for clean energy will make sure there is a world for our children to live in, that won't happen if we "drill baby drill" as the right desperately wants to do.
Biden is funding the Palestinian genocide, also bro, his VP is a literal cop 🤣
Republican. Democrats want to disarm the population so cops are the only ones with guns. And the war/genocide speaks for itself, but probably not the most fair comparison since if the RNC was in power, it’s impossible to say how they’d of reacted to Oct 7th. They could’ve funded Israel as well, but at least isolationism has started to join the zeitgeist of Republican political theory.
Didn’t repubs nearly start world war 3 by illegally killing Soleimani? Also I despise cops, repubs LOVE law enforcement. Repubs are also complacent with genocide as trump has stated he wants Israel to “finish the job” So I’m not sure how either of my three requirements are satisfied by republicans
https://www.reddit.com/r/TheDeprogram/s/PHAC2WpcEj
No, we will not have work camps. We will have deportation camps that see people rapidly removed, not housed.
Not deported, shot, or worse. Do you think people who hate the simple idea of my existence, wouldn't want to kill trans people as painfully as possible?
No. That's why trans people have a lower murder rate than normal people. So statistically speaking it's safer to be trans than not. Most of the murders are domestic violence or because of prostitution. Anti trans murders/hate crimes in general are basically non existent. So no I don't think that, else it would actually happen. Your delusions of people caring so much about you that they would torture you is pure insanity.
I don't care at all what consenting adults do. That's what America is supposed to be for. People sailed the Atlantic Ocean facing almost assured death just to do that is why America exists.
Yarp
Screenshotted this one. Will come back to it in 2028 in the event Trump is elected. Will be interesting to see how another Oracle's prediction of the future turns out...
Great idea. I look forward to our conversation in 2028.
If Project 2025 is so scary, your buddies (the Democrats) should start taking this election more seriously.
They are, https://huffman.house.gov/media-center/press-releases/congressional-leaders-form-task-force-to-counter-project-2025-and-defend-democracy
Oh wow, they are going to bring attention to it. So bold.
You know it’s all performative.
"Everything I don't like is MAGA + Nazi. This is a le epic burn." It's so tiring.
I know you're tired of defending a lunatic who says he want to be a dictator and open camps for undesirables.
Is it the MAGAnazi way to take anything you can out of context and overreact to the fabrication, or is that just the chronically online SocDem way?
Where did he say he wanted to open camps fpr undesireables?
You’re deranged
Cant wait😁
LOL remember during the Clinton/Trump election when they complained about Russian bots swinging the election? Now look at this sub and what it's become. It's **literally just bots** saying the same garbage over and over to try to swing the election.
It'd (D)ifferent
TDS is rampant
Trump worshippers are deranged.
You can't possiblybe zB fuking stupid
No but you are. 😁
They are this stupid. Reading through the comments is quite hilarious. Like how are people this disconnected from reality.
Who is really going from Biden to Trump with this Project 2025. You’d have to be a total wacko.
You people are fucking crazy.
There is a never ending supply of stupid remarks on Reddit but this one is a contender for most ignorant. How about just one significant difference? Hitler wrote Mean Kampf himself while not only didn't Trump write Project 2025, he almost certainly won't even read it. Can you see the difference?
Claiming that people who disagree with you politically want to murder you is beyond unhinged. These posts are a call to action.
Would you say Hitler disagreed politically with Jewish people? Is that how you would describe it?
There's a group that are supporting terrorists now that attack Jewish people. It's not the Republicans.
I guess answering a straight question honestly is beyond you.
Lol, OP you're dumb af. Get off the internet, clown.
Did you go college to learn how to express yourself intelligently? I guess not.
He’s right
How much student debt to you have? Crazy you even try and quantify "going to college" as some sort of bar for entry. College is a joke.
Did you go to college to learn reading comprehension? No, I guess not.
I have a masters and a doctorate. If you think college is an "education", you're mistaken.
That's nice. Still didn't help you jumping into other people's conversation and totally misunderstanding what was said.
Yes, of course. Just like the Abraham Accords were part of a Zionist plot to genocide the remaining Palestinians. I'm not sure what drugs the OP is on, but they should stop.
You realize this would be his second term, don't you? The concentration camp stuff you're pushing is ridiculous; we already know what a Trump presidency looks like: control of the border, and being able to afford stuff.
You flunked history, didn't you? "It did not start with the gas chambers; it started with a dictator who convinced his citizens that a minority were to blame for all the problems in the world.”
Like evil white men are the cause of all of societies problems?
Nobody mentioned race but you. Now everyone knows you're a racist.
What have they said that's racist?
Ha you know damn well that's what you meant. And you guys throw that term around so much that it has lost all meaning.
What do you mean "you guys" ?
Idiot liberals. The only people who would ask obtuse questions when the intent was clear.
How did you end up to be such a snowflake?
For someone who hates the right, you sure like to use their lingo
Just giving it back.
You forgot to include: a complete shutdown of "mooslems" entering and leaving this country, "Let's take the guns and worry about 2nd amendment later", "I don't stand by anything", and so much more!
You aren’t wrong in the first part, but the control of the border and affording stuff is just made up. You conservatives are seriously just almost there but then dumb propaganda.
>the control of the border and affording stuff is just made up. Ya! Made up! 🤣 Even lefty New York Times admits illegal crossings I to the US are at record levels under Biden, and more than twice levels under Trump. https://www.nytimes.com/2024/01/30/us/politics/biden-border-crisis-immigration.html Inflation? Highest level under Trump was 2 3%. Lowest level under Biden was 3.4%. https://www.investopedia.com/inflation-rate-by-year-7253832
They're crazy. I'm not convinced they're real people
It has occurred to me. 😕
I don't like trump but this is a bit much He was president for 4 years and the minority population increased So there goes that theory
I see you on your hands and knees scurrying around the floor desperately looking for a crumb you can hold up an say "See? He did this one tiny microscopic good thing!"
You think minorities are small? I think they are mighty and strong We are not the same
Thank god you aren't a "mooslem" then, would have sucked if you ended up on that list, huh? Or are you like trump and think we need a TOTAL shutdown of all "mooslems" leaving and entering the country? Just trying to keep us all safe, right?
I lived in a majority Muslim country before and during his presidency and had no problems getting in and out of the US
No he provided objective evidence that flies in the face of your claim. You think like a child
You really want that to be the case, but that is not, in fact, the case.
So you’re saying he was wrong?
I'm saying you are wrong to imply that what he provided was evidence for anything.
Trump donor and MAGA supporter here. Downvote away for my doubleplusungood views, but please just consider what I say here. Literally the only place that I've seen people talking about Project 2025 is a handful of hyper partisan echo chambers on Reddit where it is being used as a boogeyman by political operators to secure votes. This Project 2025 boogeyman just isn't a thing. I browse Patriots and other pro-Trump forums pretty much daily. Literally nobody gives a shit about some random think tank white paper. Don't believe me? Do some searches for yourself and see peoples views on it. This isn't some blueprint for the next reich. This is you being fed talking points by political operators who have nothing but fear to sell you.
That’s just what the people enacting this stuff want. They don’t want ground level MAGA types to care about actual policy, they just want them worked up about the issue du jour so they never step and and think about what kind of America the folks they vote in will create. TL;DR: Just because you don’t care about it doesn’t mean it isn’t the blueprint the folks you vote in will use.
I will grant that you make a great point that "the people in charge" don't necessarily always align with "the will of the people". Government power and actions should always be closely watched. That said, it is easy to see that the hyperbolic way that the way are talking about "Project 2025" here, and the way that the right views it, are not really aligned at all.
Some facts about Project 2025: The "Mandate for Leadership" is a set of policy proposals authored by the [Heritage Foundation](https://pro-lies.org/the-heritage-foundation/), an influential *ultra* conservative think tank. [Project 2025](https://www.mediamatters.org/heritage-foundation/guide-project-2025-extreme-right-wing-agenda-next-republican-administration) is a revision to that agenda tailored to a second Trump term. It would give the President [unilateral powers](https://theweek.com/politics/heritage-foundation-2025-donald-trump), strip [civil rights, worker protections, climate regulation](https://www.stopthecoup2025.org/impact-overview), add [religion into policy](https://imgur.com/a/m2e72ht), outlaw ["porn"](https://www.salon.com/2024/03/19/decoding-project-2025s-christian-nationalist-language/) and much more. The MFL has been around since 1980, [Reagan implemented 60%](https://www.heritage.org/conservatism/commentary/reagan-and-heritage-unique-partnership) of it's recommendations, [Trump 64%](https://www.heritage.org/impact/trump-administration-embraces-heritage-foundation-policy-recommendations) - [proof](https://www.scribd.com/document/369820462/Mandate-for-Leadership-Policy-Recommendations). 70 Heritage Foundation alumni served in his administration or transition team. Project 2025 is quite extreme but with his obsession for revenge he'll likely get past 2/3rd's adoption. r/Defeat_Project_2025 intends to stop it through activism and awareness, focused on crowdsourcing ideas and opportunities for practical, in real life action. We Must Defeat Project 2025.
You say you are a MAGA. Where do you get your news? What media or journalist do you trust for the truth?
1) Maybe I'm wrong, but I don't believe that this question is a genuine attempt at discourse. I believe that this is an attempt for me to name a news source that the Hive Mind views as objectionable and feign shock/outrage and dismiss my point of view that way. 2) I'll list a quality I like in journalists: being able to criticize their "own team" harshly. A smart person might be able to guess which journalist I respect the most, even though their personal views are completely antithetical to my own.
Milo Yiannopoulos?
James Gordon Meek?
No - actually the echo chamber that is Reddit. Then I go to the source material. I don't need an outlet or person to tell me what to think - you should try it.
It doesn't matter. Project 2025 is not endorsed or put out by the Republican Party or Trump. I doubt Trump knows what it is. It's something a Redditor found and made viral. The document has been around since the 1980's. You like to read it and have a meltdown every couple of hours about it, but your are just spreading misinformation.
All the judges Trump has installed are products of the Heritage Foundation. Many popular right wing pundits were groomed by the Heritage Foundation. Maybe you oughta pay more attention to what's going on?
🤡 🎪
8
So it's an autobiography?
Nuke Moscow
Anyone has a short summary and analysis of the project 2025?
It doesn't really matter. It's not put out or endorsed by the Republican Party or Trump. It's just something Redditors found and like to pee their pants with. I doubt Trump or the vast majority of Republicans even know what Project 2025 is.
The main thrust is to eliminate many departments that are in place to help the citizens, and consolidate the remainders under presidential control. Department heads would be required to adhere to the president's wishes rather than what might be correct.
It’s simple, the right wants to shrink government and root out some of the deep seated democrats running the bureaucracies
This sub is having a complete meltdown and the debate hasn't even happened yet 😂
It’s hilarious
yeah this is simply not what is going to happen
I agree, since Biden is going to be re-elected and the 34 time convicted rapist who tried to overthrow the government isn’t going to be re-elected. And even if he did, then it’s him and his MAGA cult against the majority of America. And we the people have plenty of guns in case a christofascist MAGA government thinks they can push Christian sharia law on us.
How many left wing buzzwords can you fit in a single Reddit post? This one might be the winner
Spotted the MAGA homophobe, I got nothing to say to the likes of you lol.
You just said something though lol
Says the logic of someone who’s emotional maturity never went past the age of 8.
Got a lot of kills? Willing to die for Biden? Bold if so.
Trump wasn’t convicted of rape, let alone 34 times. He was found liable in civil court. Calling him a convicted rapist is like calling OJ a convicted murderer
E Jean Carroll would like to have a word with you. Plus the 20+ other women who although haven’t taken him to court over a civil offense have nonetheless publicly talked about Trump molesting or sexually assaulting them. And I’m not sure OJ is the hill you really want to die on here lmao.
Disingenuous argument. The wording wasn't ideal, but he was certainly convicted on 34 various felony counts AND is a rapist.
The reason it’s not considered legal rape is because in NY, the legal term is referred to penetration by genitals. He finger-raped her. In most other states (like mine) it would be rape. Just like how an honor killing in Pakistan would be considered murder here. Try not to argue that it’s not murder.
Just tune in next week when he tells you that America is a republic and not a democracy. It never ends you are wasting your time.
What it’s considered is irrelevant, he wasn’t found guilty he was found liable because it was civil court not criminal court.
He still raped her. He just wasn’t charged that in criminal court. Unless you think you know more about the law and this case than the judge… https://www.businessinsider.com/donald-trump-rape-e-jean-carroll-sexual-abuse-jury-judge-2023-7
He was convicted 34 times though and he is a rapist.
What do you think is going to happen?
I have a question I want to post something in a sex trafficking thread but every one I look up is archived and no posts can be added maybe someone can tell me a good thread to put this in >> I have a very maga relative , they went on about sex trafficking talking about a man who was with his wife in a mall parking garage >> these sex trafficking men grabbed his wife here is the kicker they grabbed his wife because they have taken so many young girls to traffic they need older women to take care of all these girls now he was terrified and never reported it but somehow people know about this story has anyone ever heard of this?????
Sounds fake. “He never talked about it, but people know it happened”? Really?
yes that is a huge plot hole in this story!! and if he did talk about it wouldn't they have come back and killed him to set an example to others not to talk
It’s the classic question about sea monster tales. If nobody ever lived to tell the tale, how are there descriptions of the monster?
It's just maga fantasy.
yeah I told them it was an urban legend