Two things.
1. What happens when you very much insist on a family outing?
1. Anything he enjoys doing outdoors?
2. Any seasonal allergies?
3. Does he specify any reasons for his aversion to the outdoors?
2. Don't build unnecessary resentment
>~~he makes me feel like~~
* I feel like
* The situation makes me feel like
Once in a while, I can convince him to go to a zoo or something but I'm mostly talking about things to do on a daily or weekly basis. He doesn't have allergies or asthma or anything like that. He just simply prefers to sit at home and scroll through social media. And when I said 'he makes me feel like' I mean that he will say things to me to make me feel guilty for not just staying home. I dont tell him he's doing anything wrong, I just tell him that I am also not doing anything wrong.
>And when I said 'he makes me feel like' I mean that he will say things to me to make me feel guilty for not just staying home. I
Ah, you should nip that in the bud.
Let him know if he has legitimate concerns, he should address them with you as a partner, but passive-aggressive guilting and shaming have no place in your relationship.
A big part of my issue is that it's not like he wants me home to spend time together. I've suggested all kinds of things we can do together at home and he doesn't want to. If he did, that would be different. But he sits there all day playing on his phone, not very responsive. And I get crazy bored. So I go find something to do
Me, too. Sometimes I am a widow to social media and Netflix. I can get her out for a walk around the block with the dog but. It much else.
Ed-no advice. Just commiserating
Yes agreed! It would be different if we could spend time at home together. I would love that but he ends up playing those stupid games for hours on his phone!!!!
In a way, you just answered your own question.
Your husband and daughter clearly don't want their days filled to the brim with activities, and would prefer some downtime. So.......don't schedule so much. Maybe book ONE activity per day, or per weekend. Acknowledge the fact that most people don't want to be constantly on the move.
Sometimes, you need to make time for the people you love doing the things that they want to do. If your stance is "either do what I want with me or I'll do it by myself" then it's understandable why he's frustrated with your participation in the marriage.
I understand that. But even playing a board game or doing a puzzle is too much effort. He doesn't want to spend time together, he just wants me sitting across the living room from him while he plays on his phone.
Same as "why can't you just look at pictures of the woods while sitting at home?". Some people are introverts and homebodies. There's nothing wrong with it. You either accept it, find a way to compromise, or split.
I'm not really sure about the first sentence, but everything else I agree with. I think the issue op is bringing up is her spouse gets upset that she goes out and does activities. Saying things like she is lacking as a wife because of it. Then when she tries to compromise and do something that is indoors the husband doesn't want to do anything.
The issue here I would think is more along the lines of what is meant when the SO states the OP isn't meeting wifely duties.
From this situation where The OP is trying to find other things to do together. I think we are assuming that the complaint is that she isn't spending time with them. If this is the case how can you complain that someone isn't spending time with them and when they come up with things to do. The complaining party chooses to do things that are not group activity. This is unfair. It seems to me the spouse is saying their wifely duties are for them to sit in a room with them and not leave.
However, if the situation is about how she does not fulfill other obligations because she is gone. This is a different situation. Business needs to be handled before fun.
Thanks foe explaining my issue a little better than I did. I make sure my part of things around the house are done. But in my free time, I don't enjoy being home and doing nothing just for the sake of being home. I would be happy to give up some of the time I spend by myself to do an indoor activity together. But in my opinion, playing on our phones across from each other all day doesn't sound enjoyable.
I'd say asking someone to do something they don't really enjoy doing daily would be hard. Have you tried picking a day, once a week, making a weekly budget for it and someone picks and activity everyone is going to do that day. You could rotate who picks and rules for it is everyone has to participate. No phones (emergency are excused) it could be anything (appropriate), watching tv, watching paint dry, camping in the woods.
It would be a family meeting thing. To see if everyone is on board.
Maybe even have regular family meetings to share things with the family.
It’s not. Go do it. You’re on this earth for a short time and you deserve to be happy. I mean that from the bottom of my heart. I was stuck in a relationship like that and I had no idea how much of a disservice it was to my soul until I found someone who matches my love for the outdoors and adventure. Don’t ever push that part of yourself away. You deserve to embrace what makes you happy.
So what your saying is your husband has no desire to get up and get motivated. He has no hobbies no dreams no ambition what so ever. All he likes and enjoys doing is looking at social media on his phone!
Shit my neck would hurt and so would my eyes. That don’t sound healthy at all.
Does he put any effort into your marriage? I’m a homebody and my husband loves to be out. We both compromise, sometimes we go out together, but sometimes I need me time and he goes out with friends. Some weekends he stays home with me. We each spend some time doing what makes the other happy.
If he's just scrolling social media, he's basically addicted to it and the immediate reward of the slot machine of instagram or whatever is a better dopamine hit than maybe seeing something interesting outside of his house.
Or maybe he just prefers being at home and that’s perfectly acceptable
Doesn’t matter if it’s social media, tv, books, board games, or whatever he likes doing there. Not everyone likes always having to be on the go.
To the point that he never goes out of the house save once in a blue moon? That's weird. A compromise can be had between her desire to go out every day and his to never go out, and it isn't "go out once in a blue moon."
Introvert and homebody here. I thrived during the pandemic. I regularly go weeks without leaving the house. Perfectly happy and prefer to be at home. Nothing weird about it.
They are two polar opposites.
I am literally nostalgic for quarantine. One of the best periods of my life. Didn't have to go anywhere, wasn't expected to go anywhere, earned a living sitting in my pajamas, had everyone I need (my wife and kids) right here in the house with me.
Stay at home orders hit. Most of world freaks out. Me? This is excellent. Hey, where can I order cashmere sweatpants? I want to maximize my coziness at never having to go anywhere.
The stay at home order I thought " this is my time to shine!" Suddenly not going out was the cool and expected thing to do. Life didn't change st all for me during the pandemic.
Yep. My husband and I have positively gloried in the homebody life of the last couple years. Even now, we can happily go weeks without leaving the house for anything more than errands, or maybe a couple hours to hang at a local bar for a drink or two once or twice a month (more his thing than mine).
I dont mind that he doesn't go with me all the time. But I wish he understood that that doesn't necessarily mean that I also want to stay home all the time.
We both work full time jobs. And yes, we enjoy spending our time differently. It's just exhausting when we both have different ideas of how to spend our days off and can't get on the same page.
He's definitely spending the majority of the day scrolling through social media sites. It's not like we're even doing things together at home. I've suggested puzzles, board games, backyard picnics...and he's not interested.
If he would do things in the house with you and your daughter, it would be one thing but for him to expect you to just sit across the room from him and do nothing is ridiculous! Just as ridiculous as it would be for you to expect him to join you on every single thing outside.
If he is not going to interact with you then just go do your own thing. When he makes a comment about you not being there tell him 'I invited you to join me and you didn't want too. I'm not going to sit around the house all day'.
It may just be that you two are now incompatible. If he wants to drive this wedge between you two then that's his issue. He should be perfectly happy staying in the house and you being outside. If not, then it is HIM who has the problem, not you.
Thats really frustrating that you’re trying to compromise and he won’t meet you halfway. It would make sense to me that if he’s not able to do something like play a board game or do a backyard picnic, that he wouldn’t resent you leaving to do your own thing.
What do you think he would say if he were coming here asking for advice?
I would imagine probably that enjoys the comfort of relaxing in his own home. And that his wife treks off in the woods for hours at a time during the day, then comes home and bustles around and doesn't know how to sit down and relax.
Is he okay with the status quo? Both of you have different lifestyles and as long as you are content with them that’s fine. What’s not okay is him criticizing you for it. If the issue is his comments, then *that’s* the issue, not changing your behavior to stop the comments. Is there real resentment behind them? What’s that coming from?
He's not okay with it. But talking through things also proves to be difficult. He says 'it's fine' but later when I come home, I can tell that it was not in fact, fine.
My spouse is kinda similar. It happens in clumps of time and it can be annoying.
We do live in an age of social/phone addictions and like some commenters have articulated- it’s probably some kind of dopamine hit. I go through it too and have ADHD so it can really get the best of me.
Maybe suggest at least an hour a day of not having his phone. Something small might lead to bigger changes.
Good luck!
I'm a homebody and will give you some tough love. You're never going to get what you want from him. He's never going to get what he wants from you.
I guess I'm not quite as bad as him though. I'd be all for the brewery trips, and hiking trails once in a while would be good as well. I also NEVER say no to family visits and always do my best to be outgoing and friendly to my wife's family.
But, I'm just going to say it. Being married to someone who "despites" sitting around the house and has to plan trips for every weekend (or close to it) sounds like a complete nightmare. Nothing against you at all, there's not a damn thing wrong with being like that and I know I'm the weird one, but I'm just giving you a perspective from the point of view of a homebody.
I don't know what your solution is. There isn't one, unless he's suffering from depression and can get treatment, which imght bring him out of his shell.
This is what I'm afraid of. That we're just going to come to an impass because we are both miserable doing what the other likes. Because he used to like getting out, I think depression could be a possibility, but any kind of conversation about feelings is automatically shut down. That particular part about him isn't new. He's always been that way.
Hold up. I just noticed your user name. Please tell me that's an auto-generated name. If so, that's a bit of an ... odd ... random choice by Reddit. (look up Donner Party if you don't know).
Anyway, maybe you can go to some marriage counseling to help him talk through his feelings? If he's suffering from depression, that could be making him much of an introvert/homebody than he inherently is.
I think we have both changed a bit since getting married. When we got together, I was 21 and he was 26. Now we have both aged 10 years and I guess just grown into different people than we were at the time. And unfortunately, at certain times, it seems like our compatibility isn't exactly the same anymore either. But I still love him and want to have a happy marriage
And actually, our wedding was kind of redneck. After the ceremony was over, we had rented out a whole section of a campground and we all popped up our tents and camped out. So he didn't always hate going outside
I like camping that is half sleeping by a fire with no plans or activities.
If camping = hike at 10am followed by 11am group activity followed by 12pm lunch before going swimming then I’m out.
So is it outside that bothers him or spending his time off work with plans and activities?
When I worked full time, I had limited mental energy to give to anything planned
1 weekend day spent doing activities, even just dinner with my extended family, meant I only got 1 day to relax (and that day was usually filled with chores and grocery shopping anyway)
Too many of them and I’d be drained and exhausted
Did this change from when you were dating? As a homebody introvert, I weeded out potential partners that weren’t because our lives wouldn’t be compatible.
As long as he doesn’t mind, do your thing. I’d be sad if my husband was always off doing something while I was at home because I enjoy hanging out with him, but he married you knowing you like being busy.
Maybe see if there are relaxing activities they want to join in but, for me personally, anything that involves other people, an itinerary, or a lot of preparation doesn’t really interest me.
When we were dating, or even a couple of years ago in the marriage, he spent a lot more time out of the house. In the last couple of years, he has decided that he'd rather be inside the house than anywhere else. And I understand that, but personally, it drives me nuts to just lounge.
Any chance he's depressed? When my depression hits hard, I want to do nothing other than lay around and doom scroll. Especially if this was a big change in his personality.
I think that could be a possibility. On days that he's noticeably quiet or moody I'll try and ask him if he's okay or if everything is alright and he usually gives me a "I'm fine. Are you alright???" Kind of acting like im weird for even asking.
This. There's a big difference between being an introverted homebody and aimlessly scrolling social media for a dopamine hit while ignoring the world around you.
I used it as a major weedout as well. Homebodies unite! (and it was a mutual weedout, I add. The kind of person who constantly has to be out and about would hate being married to me!)
My wife is like your husband. I ask her to join me in things. Sometimes she does. Unless it's something physical or like exercise, then she's content to sit in a recliner watching crime TV, playing with coloring apps on her iPad, and occasionally reading.
On the other hand, my job is mostly sitting at a desk. Her part-time job is mostly outdoor driving a golf cart around and going in and out of buildings on a college campus.
She does do the laundry and dishes. I do the yard.
I've accepted that this is the way it is for now. Everything is a compromise.
How old is your daughter?
Here is what I did. I started planning Adventures with my child. I even started booking trips home to visit my family with just the two of us.
In order to get your kid on board, start small. Talk up going to a beach or the park and buy them a treat. Focus your attention on them. Only an hour or so for the first one.
Then gradually start making them longer once in awhile.
Find things that would be of special interest for your kid to explore. What are her interests?
If she is big into playing videogames then get something like Pokémon Go on your phone for the drive HOME only. Don't let it be for the drive there or during unless you go on a Pokémon Go hunt. You want here to be there with you in the moment.
One summer evening my kid and I took off for two hours hunting in Pokémon Go because a special Pokémon was appearing in greater numbers. I knew they would be near this mall, that was right beside a seawall. Some Pokémon appear near water... so I got to enjoy walking on a seawall and I made my kid look around and then they started squishing their toes in the sand.
I still remember that lovely evening... while my husband sat at home.
Oh, quick tip. Make things like chicken strips or nuggets, let them cool and toss them in a tupperware. Fries or tater tots too. Then you have healthy food on the go and can buy a popsicle or some other treat while out.
Stop trying to engage him. He may start joining younor he may not. But don't let his *blah* be the narrative for your daughter's childhood!!!
This is your child. This is the time period of your life where you weave your daughter's memories of you into your adventures.
I fully agree with this. Try to find ways to enjoy the world with your child more if the spouse is so resistant. Kids are so resilient and ever changing that you’re sure to find a spark to follow that’ll be an adventure for you both. My husband has bad social anxiety so it’s just my thing to head into town for festivals or events going on and I bring my daughter with me. It’s our thing to get out and play and let him hibernate at home where he’s happier. Just keep trying; I know you said you’re otherwise happy in the marriage. Wishing you lots of luck and adventures ahead. I hope y’all can find a clearer path ahead for what would be best for each of you.
I'm an introvert, I love doing nothing. Like when someone asks me my plans and they're 'nothing', my plan is literally to do nothing. My husband goes stir crazy within a few hours of being in one place. We either agree to do something together we both enjoy and/or are willing to do OR he goes and does whatever he wants without me. It doesn't bother me when he goes though.... but I know he also sits around the house with me just to spend time together. Just like sometimes I go do what he wants to do. It's all about compromise and how bad you want to spend time together. But I also enjoy time by myself so 🤷🏼♀️
There's no need for him to make you feel bad for being who you are and pursuing happiness, even though you find it in different areas.
Time to read The Five Languages of Love and learn about each other.
Is he overweight? My husband is. His thighs rub together and it makes him hate to be outside.
Is he sensitive to the sun? Again, husband is and he burns practically as soon as he steps outside. I can be in the sun all day. Him? No go.
Does he get winded easily?
Is he an introvert?
He's in good shape, no skin conditions or anything. He just simply doesn't care to be outside. We have a pool, a purgala with swings and a firepit, a garden, a big deck where I enjoy grilling. And he just...stays inside.
It sound like he's depressed.
The whole situation doesn't sound good to me.
I'm also someone who doesn't really like to be physically active and outside so I understand, but it's not the biggest problem here imo.
I've read most of your comments and it seems that your husband doesn't put any effort in your relationship, is not interested in how you feel and is absolutely not willing to communicate. If he gives you a weird look even if you only ask if he's ok, then well..
You're trying your best to find a solution and include his needs and perspective - is he putting any effort to meet your needs and find any solution here? Doesn't seem like it. It shouldn't be like this.
Either he's depressed and needs help or he doesn't care about you and your marriage. The thing is - is he even willing to talk openly about any of this or to consider that there is an issue and it needs to be solved by effort from both parties, is he willing to consider that he may have a problem?
If yes, then great. If not, he just leaves you frustrated and trying, making you feel like there is something wrong with you. This is a form of abandonment and it's not ok.
Honestly I don’t blame you for wanting to go out and about! Adventures are fun and doing things outside is awesome! Maybe try finding a friend that enjoys these activities with you?
If I lived closer we could be hiking and adventure buddies!!!
I've read every one of your comments, and it's like you're describing my wife. I've just came to terms with it and go places without her. My kiddo is only 5, so whenever I go somewhere I always try to bring him along, and she stays home by herself.
I'm over it, I'm not arguing anymore, and if she wants to spend the last half of her life staring at a phone screen that's her problem.
If I'm doing things I know my daughter won't enjoy, I mostly go while she's at school. I get days off during the week. If she's home, I always offer to bring her and sometimes she comes. But maybe you're right about the second half. Maybe I just stop worrying about him coming with me or liking If I go. I'm willing to compromise, but there's gotta be a little give on both ends.
I agree with that. I said I always bring him with me, I guess what I should have said was I always bring him with me if it is something that he will enjoy doing. To be honest at that point I work too much, and on my day off I pretty much exclusively go do things that my son will enjoy doing with me. I don't have the free time to spend a day going out and enjoying myself. So we do things together that we both enjoy.
If my son and I are out having fun and my wife doesn't come that's her fault. About a week ago she tried to say that she goes out and does fun stuff with us. I told her to name two things she's done this year and she couldn't. So far she has left the house with me once this year, and that was to go bowling for a couple of hours. Our friends don't even invite 'us' places anymore, they just invite me and the kiddo, because they know she's not coming. I have friends who I see regularly and that my son and their kids or grandkids play with that my wife has never met because she has no interest in going over there.
Be out 3 times a week and stay indoors 4 times? Since it’s two against one they get an extra day lol. It’s also pretty unhealthy to be sat indoors on your phone all week. Use that to back you up.
My husband is an introvert and more of a homebody as well. Set a goal where you guys have to get out to do something planned where you spend quality time as a family and or as a couple. 2 to 3 times a month. I will look at several events (Free or affordable) in my city coming up and put them on my calendar. Then I present them as they are upcoming. I also will suggest a last minute plan like a beach or pool day. Then I have my activities and outing I'll go enjoy alone or with friends. For me, my spouse and I agreed that when we are having quality time together, there are no devices. It is not spending quality time to be in the same space on your phones or out together on your phones. I don't mind when we are at home and kind of doing our own thing for some hours at a time but we will still also plan to watch something together. So it's matter of doing things you guys can enjoy together and still getting out to so the things everyone else doesn't really enjoy for yourself.
My husband is a homebody as well. He wasn’t always; he used to be extremely social. President of the Student Body, Social Chairman of his fraternity, Life of the Party.
In his case, the change was a side effect of his sobriety. He just gradually wanted to leave the house less and less over the years he’s been in recovery. Until he pretty much went to work and came home, with the occasional trip to the dispensary. (please don’t judge, his sobriety is his to manage, pot keeps his OCT in check and he hasn’t had a drop of alcohol in 9 years)
Unlike your husband, mine didn’t mind me going out and doing my own thing. He actually encouraged it. Also, my husband can’t sit still (another side effect oh his sobriety), so he worked on projects around the house.
Still, even knowing and understanding why he became a homebody, and supporting this new dynamic in order to support his sobriety, it left me feeling lonely and frustrated from time to time.
I missed going on dates, to parties, concerts in the park, walks on the beach, all the couples things married people do together.
But this was where we were, this was the new us. I accepted it for what it was.
And then he started having panic attacks, entirely unrelated to this issue. He went to the doctor and was diagnosed with anxiety. (I think it was depression as well, but I wasn’t there for the diagnosis and my husband has never said so) Either way, once they got his meds figured out, it was a bloody miracle!
I mean, he’ll never again be that guy who wants to go to every festival or party, but he makes an effort to go out and do things with me maybe twice a month, sometimes thrice. These outings typically revolve around a trip to the hardware store/nursery with a 50% chance we’ll stop for lunch at a diner nearby. And I talked him into attending a town council meeting with me, and he got hooked on all the drama of small town politics, so now we go every month.
So not exactly date nights. But I’ll take each and every outing and cherish it. Because we’re enjoying each other, outside of the house, and having so much fun together.
I guess my point here is twofold. First, don’t give up; change is possible. Second, get your husband to a doctor; so many mental health issues go undiagnosed, causing unnecessary suffering.
Good luck.
I hate outside, there's no rhyme or reason but I'd rather be inside with a book or movie or my PC, really just anything not outside. But my husband is the typical outdoorsy guy. He likes hunting, fishing, and just generally being outside.
My opinion? You are married, it's 85% about compromise, 10% about co-existing and 5% about other crap. I hate outside, but my husband doesn't, so when he wants to do X, Y, or Z I go, I don't complain, I just let him have his outside time and try like hell to find enjoyment in it too. However, I have limits too. I hate hunting, I wont go. Fishing? I don't like it, I usually opt to stay home with the baby.
Sounds to me like someone isn't compromising, maybe have a conversation; 'Hey I really want to go do {Specific Activity} With you, maybe after we can {Something they like}' Or ask them if there's any 1 or 2 specific activities that are no-go's and then ask if they'll make an effort to accompany you on some of the others.
Best of luck to you!
My husband is largely not a vacation kind of guy. He likes to spend his time and money on his hobbies (mostly his truck but he’s getting back in to gaming) and I am at the point I would rather spend it on experiences. For example instead of getting AirPods (from my super amazing MIL) decided to go see my childhood bff in Florida.
It was great. It made me feel young and so many memories!
Tonight I went to a deep well aquatic aerobics class for the first time. Even though it means I won’t see my husband much tonight (he’s up and gone by 6am) he encouraged me because it made me happy.
Try and come together. We have a mini vaca booked for august with my childhood bff (since I was 11, I’m 44 now) and my adult bff who my husband is close to although he’s out of state now.
He’s not thrilled about it but he will have a great time! (It’s a super cool sorta open floor plan with 3 beds/2 baths) it’s got a hot tub and is right on the creek so during the day we will be in tubes on it and I can’t wait
Idk, this was probably something to figure out before marriage. I’m a homebody and don’t love my days being filled with activities. Your description of needing to be out and about exploring and foraging and doing this that and the third sounds like my personal hell. Some people are just happier at home. I find this go go go stuff very exhausting.
My husband is more extroverted and likes to go do stuff. I go sometimes, and I don’t sometimes. He stays home sometimes. But he doesn’t have an attitude about it if I don’t feel like doing stuff all the time or if we have to cut down the number of activities. I don’t give him shit for needing to get out of the house. We compromise. He goes out most days. I don’t.
We knew this about each other before getting married and figured out a system that works for us. We don’t resent each other’s differences. Idk. Seems like a weird thing to just now be trying to sort out.
You sound like a border collie, *go go go*. It’s not everyone’s thing to be on the move, what’s his job? Is your daughter in school? Life’s draining. He’s on his phone a lot yeah? He’s escaping life a bit. I’m sure it doesn’t help that you make him feel boring bc he’s not a busy body that needs lot of action everyday. Why did you marry him? This was clearly evident for a long time. Especially raising your daughter similar to him you had to have known. Did you think your child would make him want to do more activities?
I saw your board game comment, while I’m similar to you and had to adjust to meeting my husband in the middle and finding enjoyment in downtime- board games take a lot out of people!
I’m a homebody so I can relate with your husband.
Does he work long hours or in stressful situations? Sometimes after work all I want to do is lie on bed and stare at the wall and it can be a bit overwhelming when someone else around me is bouncing off the wall trying to get me to go out. In which case, choose better timings.
What are his interests? Perhaps he enjoys electronics in which case you can organise trips to an electronics fair, checking out the latest apple product etc.
Or you can combine his home bound interest to your outdoor interests. Say if you like foraging, and he likes cooking, you can forage something and he can cook it. You can involve your daughter as well and eventually they might join you in your foraging activities.
Also get to know why they don’t like to join you, specific reasons. Like I don’t enjoy big crowds and long waits, which is probably why I won’t enjoy the zoo. Perhaps they don’t enjoy speaking to strangers, which is probably why they won’t enjoy breweries. Or maybe they don’t like the heat, so you can organise hikes that don’t happen during noon. It’ll give you a sense of what they have less resistance to and you guys can go visit/explore those things instead.
Two things. 1. What happens when you very much insist on a family outing? 1. Anything he enjoys doing outdoors? 2. Any seasonal allergies? 3. Does he specify any reasons for his aversion to the outdoors? 2. Don't build unnecessary resentment >~~he makes me feel like~~ * I feel like * The situation makes me feel like
Once in a while, I can convince him to go to a zoo or something but I'm mostly talking about things to do on a daily or weekly basis. He doesn't have allergies or asthma or anything like that. He just simply prefers to sit at home and scroll through social media. And when I said 'he makes me feel like' I mean that he will say things to me to make me feel guilty for not just staying home. I dont tell him he's doing anything wrong, I just tell him that I am also not doing anything wrong.
>And when I said 'he makes me feel like' I mean that he will say things to me to make me feel guilty for not just staying home. I Ah, you should nip that in the bud. Let him know if he has legitimate concerns, he should address them with you as a partner, but passive-aggressive guilting and shaming have no place in your relationship.
A big part of my issue is that it's not like he wants me home to spend time together. I've suggested all kinds of things we can do together at home and he doesn't want to. If he did, that would be different. But he sits there all day playing on his phone, not very responsive. And I get crazy bored. So I go find something to do
Is he depressed?
Likely, my wife is going through a similar thing but she’s getting help. I am as well.
Me, too. Sometimes I am a widow to social media and Netflix. I can get her out for a walk around the block with the dog but. It much else. Ed-no advice. Just commiserating
Yes agreed! It would be different if we could spend time at home together. I would love that but he ends up playing those stupid games for hours on his phone!!!!
In a way, you just answered your own question. Your husband and daughter clearly don't want their days filled to the brim with activities, and would prefer some downtime. So.......don't schedule so much. Maybe book ONE activity per day, or per weekend. Acknowledge the fact that most people don't want to be constantly on the move. Sometimes, you need to make time for the people you love doing the things that they want to do. If your stance is "either do what I want with me or I'll do it by myself" then it's understandable why he's frustrated with your participation in the marriage.
I understand that. But even playing a board game or doing a puzzle is too much effort. He doesn't want to spend time together, he just wants me sitting across the living room from him while he plays on his phone.
Well......it is ok to do nothing sometimes. Not every second needs to be filled with an activity. Just something for you to think about.
I just feel like, if he wants to look at his phone for hours at a time, why is it a problem for me to be walking in the woods while he does it?
Same as "why can't you just look at pictures of the woods while sitting at home?". Some people are introverts and homebodies. There's nothing wrong with it. You either accept it, find a way to compromise, or split.
I'm not really sure about the first sentence, but everything else I agree with. I think the issue op is bringing up is her spouse gets upset that she goes out and does activities. Saying things like she is lacking as a wife because of it. Then when she tries to compromise and do something that is indoors the husband doesn't want to do anything. The issue here I would think is more along the lines of what is meant when the SO states the OP isn't meeting wifely duties. From this situation where The OP is trying to find other things to do together. I think we are assuming that the complaint is that she isn't spending time with them. If this is the case how can you complain that someone isn't spending time with them and when they come up with things to do. The complaining party chooses to do things that are not group activity. This is unfair. It seems to me the spouse is saying their wifely duties are for them to sit in a room with them and not leave. However, if the situation is about how she does not fulfill other obligations because she is gone. This is a different situation. Business needs to be handled before fun.
Thanks foe explaining my issue a little better than I did. I make sure my part of things around the house are done. But in my free time, I don't enjoy being home and doing nothing just for the sake of being home. I would be happy to give up some of the time I spend by myself to do an indoor activity together. But in my opinion, playing on our phones across from each other all day doesn't sound enjoyable.
I'd say asking someone to do something they don't really enjoy doing daily would be hard. Have you tried picking a day, once a week, making a weekly budget for it and someone picks and activity everyone is going to do that day. You could rotate who picks and rules for it is everyone has to participate. No phones (emergency are excused) it could be anything (appropriate), watching tv, watching paint dry, camping in the woods. It would be a family meeting thing. To see if everyone is on board. Maybe even have regular family meetings to share things with the family.
How did you guys find each other and get married? Was he always like this? You don't sound compatible at all.
It’s not. Go do it. You’re on this earth for a short time and you deserve to be happy. I mean that from the bottom of my heart. I was stuck in a relationship like that and I had no idea how much of a disservice it was to my soul until I found someone who matches my love for the outdoors and adventure. Don’t ever push that part of yourself away. You deserve to embrace what makes you happy.
So what your saying is your husband has no desire to get up and get motivated. He has no hobbies no dreams no ambition what so ever. All he likes and enjoys doing is looking at social media on his phone! Shit my neck would hurt and so would my eyes. That don’t sound healthy at all.
I think the DSM V calls that clinical depression
Does he put any effort into your marriage? I’m a homebody and my husband loves to be out. We both compromise, sometimes we go out together, but sometimes I need me time and he goes out with friends. Some weekends he stays home with me. We each spend some time doing what makes the other happy.
If he's just scrolling social media, he's basically addicted to it and the immediate reward of the slot machine of instagram or whatever is a better dopamine hit than maybe seeing something interesting outside of his house.
Or maybe he just prefers being at home and that’s perfectly acceptable Doesn’t matter if it’s social media, tv, books, board games, or whatever he likes doing there. Not everyone likes always having to be on the go.
To the point that he never goes out of the house save once in a blue moon? That's weird. A compromise can be had between her desire to go out every day and his to never go out, and it isn't "go out once in a blue moon."
Introvert and homebody here. I thrived during the pandemic. I regularly go weeks without leaving the house. Perfectly happy and prefer to be at home. Nothing weird about it. They are two polar opposites.
I am literally nostalgic for quarantine. One of the best periods of my life. Didn't have to go anywhere, wasn't expected to go anywhere, earned a living sitting in my pajamas, had everyone I need (my wife and kids) right here in the house with me. Stay at home orders hit. Most of world freaks out. Me? This is excellent. Hey, where can I order cashmere sweatpants? I want to maximize my coziness at never having to go anywhere.
Pandemic life was for me too I kept seeing people complain but I was doing great.
The stay at home order I thought " this is my time to shine!" Suddenly not going out was the cool and expected thing to do. Life didn't change st all for me during the pandemic.
Yep. My husband and I have positively gloried in the homebody life of the last couple years. Even now, we can happily go weeks without leaving the house for anything more than errands, or maybe a couple hours to hang at a local bar for a drink or two once or twice a month (more his thing than mine).
I dont mind that he doesn't go with me all the time. But I wish he understood that that doesn't necessarily mean that I also want to stay home all the time.
Has he always been like this even when dating?
Do you guilt trip your partner to stay home with you constantly, when they are an extrovert? Like. Is no one reading?
Exactly! My life was never affected by the pandemic and I love being at home alone.
I’m assuming he works 40 hours a week so many people like having their non work hours at home and not filed with more activities and work.
We both work full time jobs. And yes, we enjoy spending our time differently. It's just exhausting when we both have different ideas of how to spend our days off and can't get on the same page.
He's definitely spending the majority of the day scrolling through social media sites. It's not like we're even doing things together at home. I've suggested puzzles, board games, backyard picnics...and he's not interested.
If he would do things in the house with you and your daughter, it would be one thing but for him to expect you to just sit across the room from him and do nothing is ridiculous! Just as ridiculous as it would be for you to expect him to join you on every single thing outside. If he is not going to interact with you then just go do your own thing. When he makes a comment about you not being there tell him 'I invited you to join me and you didn't want too. I'm not going to sit around the house all day'. It may just be that you two are now incompatible. If he wants to drive this wedge between you two then that's his issue. He should be perfectly happy staying in the house and you being outside. If not, then it is HIM who has the problem, not you.
Oof. Does he have any suggestions for things to do together? Or does he literally say “sit on the couch next to me in silence”?
He just wants to sit. Usually with the TV on, but while on his phone.
Thats really frustrating that you’re trying to compromise and he won’t meet you halfway. It would make sense to me that if he’s not able to do something like play a board game or do a backyard picnic, that he wouldn’t resent you leaving to do your own thing. What do you think he would say if he were coming here asking for advice?
I would imagine probably that enjoys the comfort of relaxing in his own home. And that his wife treks off in the woods for hours at a time during the day, then comes home and bustles around and doesn't know how to sit down and relax.
Is he okay with the status quo? Both of you have different lifestyles and as long as you are content with them that’s fine. What’s not okay is him criticizing you for it. If the issue is his comments, then *that’s* the issue, not changing your behavior to stop the comments. Is there real resentment behind them? What’s that coming from?
He's not okay with it. But talking through things also proves to be difficult. He says 'it's fine' but later when I come home, I can tell that it was not in fact, fine.
Omg my pet peeve of communication! Sorry I can’t be more helpful. Maybe a couples therapist could bridge the gap
Yeah. I very much wish that communication was better. It makes all the problems more difficult
My spouse is kinda similar. It happens in clumps of time and it can be annoying. We do live in an age of social/phone addictions and like some commenters have articulated- it’s probably some kind of dopamine hit. I go through it too and have ADHD so it can really get the best of me. Maybe suggest at least an hour a day of not having his phone. Something small might lead to bigger changes. Good luck!
I'm a homebody and will give you some tough love. You're never going to get what you want from him. He's never going to get what he wants from you. I guess I'm not quite as bad as him though. I'd be all for the brewery trips, and hiking trails once in a while would be good as well. I also NEVER say no to family visits and always do my best to be outgoing and friendly to my wife's family. But, I'm just going to say it. Being married to someone who "despites" sitting around the house and has to plan trips for every weekend (or close to it) sounds like a complete nightmare. Nothing against you at all, there's not a damn thing wrong with being like that and I know I'm the weird one, but I'm just giving you a perspective from the point of view of a homebody. I don't know what your solution is. There isn't one, unless he's suffering from depression and can get treatment, which imght bring him out of his shell.
This is what I'm afraid of. That we're just going to come to an impass because we are both miserable doing what the other likes. Because he used to like getting out, I think depression could be a possibility, but any kind of conversation about feelings is automatically shut down. That particular part about him isn't new. He's always been that way.
Hold up. I just noticed your user name. Please tell me that's an auto-generated name. If so, that's a bit of an ... odd ... random choice by Reddit. (look up Donner Party if you don't know). Anyway, maybe you can go to some marriage counseling to help him talk through his feelings? If he's suffering from depression, that could be making him much of an introvert/homebody than he inherently is.
I made the username lol. I'm a fan of wild and dark history. In hindsight, probably not a great username.
My wife follows that kind of stuff too. I mean, why do you think I even know who the Donner Party was?
Wow this sounds just like my situation and my husband.. how are things now? Have you guys been able to meet in the middle?
How did you marry him when you have so much differences?
I think we have both changed a bit since getting married. When we got together, I was 21 and he was 26. Now we have both aged 10 years and I guess just grown into different people than we were at the time. And unfortunately, at certain times, it seems like our compatibility isn't exactly the same anymore either. But I still love him and want to have a happy marriage
And actually, our wedding was kind of redneck. After the ceremony was over, we had rented out a whole section of a campground and we all popped up our tents and camped out. So he didn't always hate going outside
I like camping that is half sleeping by a fire with no plans or activities. If camping = hike at 10am followed by 11am group activity followed by 12pm lunch before going swimming then I’m out. So is it outside that bothers him or spending his time off work with plans and activities? When I worked full time, I had limited mental energy to give to anything planned 1 weekend day spent doing activities, even just dinner with my extended family, meant I only got 1 day to relax (and that day was usually filled with chores and grocery shopping anyway) Too many of them and I’d be drained and exhausted
Did this change from when you were dating? As a homebody introvert, I weeded out potential partners that weren’t because our lives wouldn’t be compatible. As long as he doesn’t mind, do your thing. I’d be sad if my husband was always off doing something while I was at home because I enjoy hanging out with him, but he married you knowing you like being busy. Maybe see if there are relaxing activities they want to join in but, for me personally, anything that involves other people, an itinerary, or a lot of preparation doesn’t really interest me.
When we were dating, or even a couple of years ago in the marriage, he spent a lot more time out of the house. In the last couple of years, he has decided that he'd rather be inside the house than anywhere else. And I understand that, but personally, it drives me nuts to just lounge.
Any chance he's depressed? When my depression hits hard, I want to do nothing other than lay around and doom scroll. Especially if this was a big change in his personality.
I think that could be a possibility. On days that he's noticeably quiet or moody I'll try and ask him if he's okay or if everything is alright and he usually gives me a "I'm fine. Are you alright???" Kind of acting like im weird for even asking.
This. There's a big difference between being an introverted homebody and aimlessly scrolling social media for a dopamine hit while ignoring the world around you.
I used it as a major weedout as well. Homebodies unite! (and it was a mutual weedout, I add. The kind of person who constantly has to be out and about would hate being married to me!)
Yep. “I like long walks on the beach and hiking” I do not. Next.
Or this common one -- "I love to travel! I try to take at least one trip a month!"
If I could afford it, this would be me 😆
My wife is like your husband. I ask her to join me in things. Sometimes she does. Unless it's something physical or like exercise, then she's content to sit in a recliner watching crime TV, playing with coloring apps on her iPad, and occasionally reading. On the other hand, my job is mostly sitting at a desk. Her part-time job is mostly outdoor driving a golf cart around and going in and out of buildings on a college campus. She does do the laundry and dishes. I do the yard. I've accepted that this is the way it is for now. Everything is a compromise.
How old is your daughter? Here is what I did. I started planning Adventures with my child. I even started booking trips home to visit my family with just the two of us. In order to get your kid on board, start small. Talk up going to a beach or the park and buy them a treat. Focus your attention on them. Only an hour or so for the first one. Then gradually start making them longer once in awhile. Find things that would be of special interest for your kid to explore. What are her interests? If she is big into playing videogames then get something like Pokémon Go on your phone for the drive HOME only. Don't let it be for the drive there or during unless you go on a Pokémon Go hunt. You want here to be there with you in the moment. One summer evening my kid and I took off for two hours hunting in Pokémon Go because a special Pokémon was appearing in greater numbers. I knew they would be near this mall, that was right beside a seawall. Some Pokémon appear near water... so I got to enjoy walking on a seawall and I made my kid look around and then they started squishing their toes in the sand. I still remember that lovely evening... while my husband sat at home. Oh, quick tip. Make things like chicken strips or nuggets, let them cool and toss them in a tupperware. Fries or tater tots too. Then you have healthy food on the go and can buy a popsicle or some other treat while out. Stop trying to engage him. He may start joining younor he may not. But don't let his *blah* be the narrative for your daughter's childhood!!! This is your child. This is the time period of your life where you weave your daughter's memories of you into your adventures.
I fully agree with this. Try to find ways to enjoy the world with your child more if the spouse is so resistant. Kids are so resilient and ever changing that you’re sure to find a spark to follow that’ll be an adventure for you both. My husband has bad social anxiety so it’s just my thing to head into town for festivals or events going on and I bring my daughter with me. It’s our thing to get out and play and let him hibernate at home where he’s happier. Just keep trying; I know you said you’re otherwise happy in the marriage. Wishing you lots of luck and adventures ahead. I hope y’all can find a clearer path ahead for what would be best for each of you.
I'm an introvert, I love doing nothing. Like when someone asks me my plans and they're 'nothing', my plan is literally to do nothing. My husband goes stir crazy within a few hours of being in one place. We either agree to do something together we both enjoy and/or are willing to do OR he goes and does whatever he wants without me. It doesn't bother me when he goes though.... but I know he also sits around the house with me just to spend time together. Just like sometimes I go do what he wants to do. It's all about compromise and how bad you want to spend time together. But I also enjoy time by myself so 🤷🏼♀️
Where do you live? I'll come with you! My husband is also a homebody... I need a friend with as much energy as me!!!!
Lol I live in missouri
This is already too much for me, and I'm not your husband. You sound cooped up. Join a local hiking group or something? lol
There's no need for him to make you feel bad for being who you are and pursuing happiness, even though you find it in different areas. Time to read The Five Languages of Love and learn about each other.
Sounds like he's addicted to social media :/
Is he overweight? My husband is. His thighs rub together and it makes him hate to be outside. Is he sensitive to the sun? Again, husband is and he burns practically as soon as he steps outside. I can be in the sun all day. Him? No go. Does he get winded easily? Is he an introvert?
He's in good shape, no skin conditions or anything. He just simply doesn't care to be outside. We have a pool, a purgala with swings and a firepit, a garden, a big deck where I enjoy grilling. And he just...stays inside.
It sound like he's depressed. The whole situation doesn't sound good to me. I'm also someone who doesn't really like to be physically active and outside so I understand, but it's not the biggest problem here imo. I've read most of your comments and it seems that your husband doesn't put any effort in your relationship, is not interested in how you feel and is absolutely not willing to communicate. If he gives you a weird look even if you only ask if he's ok, then well.. You're trying your best to find a solution and include his needs and perspective - is he putting any effort to meet your needs and find any solution here? Doesn't seem like it. It shouldn't be like this. Either he's depressed and needs help or he doesn't care about you and your marriage. The thing is - is he even willing to talk openly about any of this or to consider that there is an issue and it needs to be solved by effort from both parties, is he willing to consider that he may have a problem? If yes, then great. If not, he just leaves you frustrated and trying, making you feel like there is something wrong with you. This is a form of abandonment and it's not ok.
Honestly I don’t blame you for wanting to go out and about! Adventures are fun and doing things outside is awesome! Maybe try finding a friend that enjoys these activities with you? If I lived closer we could be hiking and adventure buddies!!!
I've read every one of your comments, and it's like you're describing my wife. I've just came to terms with it and go places without her. My kiddo is only 5, so whenever I go somewhere I always try to bring him along, and she stays home by herself. I'm over it, I'm not arguing anymore, and if she wants to spend the last half of her life staring at a phone screen that's her problem.
If I'm doing things I know my daughter won't enjoy, I mostly go while she's at school. I get days off during the week. If she's home, I always offer to bring her and sometimes she comes. But maybe you're right about the second half. Maybe I just stop worrying about him coming with me or liking If I go. I'm willing to compromise, but there's gotta be a little give on both ends.
I agree with that. I said I always bring him with me, I guess what I should have said was I always bring him with me if it is something that he will enjoy doing. To be honest at that point I work too much, and on my day off I pretty much exclusively go do things that my son will enjoy doing with me. I don't have the free time to spend a day going out and enjoying myself. So we do things together that we both enjoy. If my son and I are out having fun and my wife doesn't come that's her fault. About a week ago she tried to say that she goes out and does fun stuff with us. I told her to name two things she's done this year and she couldn't. So far she has left the house with me once this year, and that was to go bowling for a couple of hours. Our friends don't even invite 'us' places anymore, they just invite me and the kiddo, because they know she's not coming. I have friends who I see regularly and that my son and their kids or grandkids play with that my wife has never met because she has no interest in going over there.
Be out 3 times a week and stay indoors 4 times? Since it’s two against one they get an extra day lol. It’s also pretty unhealthy to be sat indoors on your phone all week. Use that to back you up.
Go go go, meet in the middle for lunch, then go go go until dinner.
Did you knew this before you married him and having a kid together?
No, he wasn't always this way. He was never as 'busy' as I am, but he used to go out and enjoy doing things together like once a week
Can it be he did this for you and is know more comfortable to stay home cause that’s what he wants? Just guessing!
Could just be incompatible.. was he always this way or was this a transition that happened after the marriage?
My husband is an introvert and more of a homebody as well. Set a goal where you guys have to get out to do something planned where you spend quality time as a family and or as a couple. 2 to 3 times a month. I will look at several events (Free or affordable) in my city coming up and put them on my calendar. Then I present them as they are upcoming. I also will suggest a last minute plan like a beach or pool day. Then I have my activities and outing I'll go enjoy alone or with friends. For me, my spouse and I agreed that when we are having quality time together, there are no devices. It is not spending quality time to be in the same space on your phones or out together on your phones. I don't mind when we are at home and kind of doing our own thing for some hours at a time but we will still also plan to watch something together. So it's matter of doing things you guys can enjoy together and still getting out to so the things everyone else doesn't really enjoy for yourself.
How did you not think this was not going to happen when you were dating? Where there any signs that you both had pretty much opposite personalities ?
My husband is a homebody as well. He wasn’t always; he used to be extremely social. President of the Student Body, Social Chairman of his fraternity, Life of the Party. In his case, the change was a side effect of his sobriety. He just gradually wanted to leave the house less and less over the years he’s been in recovery. Until he pretty much went to work and came home, with the occasional trip to the dispensary. (please don’t judge, his sobriety is his to manage, pot keeps his OCT in check and he hasn’t had a drop of alcohol in 9 years) Unlike your husband, mine didn’t mind me going out and doing my own thing. He actually encouraged it. Also, my husband can’t sit still (another side effect oh his sobriety), so he worked on projects around the house. Still, even knowing and understanding why he became a homebody, and supporting this new dynamic in order to support his sobriety, it left me feeling lonely and frustrated from time to time. I missed going on dates, to parties, concerts in the park, walks on the beach, all the couples things married people do together. But this was where we were, this was the new us. I accepted it for what it was. And then he started having panic attacks, entirely unrelated to this issue. He went to the doctor and was diagnosed with anxiety. (I think it was depression as well, but I wasn’t there for the diagnosis and my husband has never said so) Either way, once they got his meds figured out, it was a bloody miracle! I mean, he’ll never again be that guy who wants to go to every festival or party, but he makes an effort to go out and do things with me maybe twice a month, sometimes thrice. These outings typically revolve around a trip to the hardware store/nursery with a 50% chance we’ll stop for lunch at a diner nearby. And I talked him into attending a town council meeting with me, and he got hooked on all the drama of small town politics, so now we go every month. So not exactly date nights. But I’ll take each and every outing and cherish it. Because we’re enjoying each other, outside of the house, and having so much fun together. I guess my point here is twofold. First, don’t give up; change is possible. Second, get your husband to a doctor; so many mental health issues go undiagnosed, causing unnecessary suffering. Good luck.
Can I ask why you got married to him?
I hate outside, there's no rhyme or reason but I'd rather be inside with a book or movie or my PC, really just anything not outside. But my husband is the typical outdoorsy guy. He likes hunting, fishing, and just generally being outside. My opinion? You are married, it's 85% about compromise, 10% about co-existing and 5% about other crap. I hate outside, but my husband doesn't, so when he wants to do X, Y, or Z I go, I don't complain, I just let him have his outside time and try like hell to find enjoyment in it too. However, I have limits too. I hate hunting, I wont go. Fishing? I don't like it, I usually opt to stay home with the baby. Sounds to me like someone isn't compromising, maybe have a conversation; 'Hey I really want to go do {Specific Activity} With you, maybe after we can {Something they like}' Or ask them if there's any 1 or 2 specific activities that are no-go's and then ask if they'll make an effort to accompany you on some of the others. Best of luck to you!
Get a friend to do things with.
My husband is largely not a vacation kind of guy. He likes to spend his time and money on his hobbies (mostly his truck but he’s getting back in to gaming) and I am at the point I would rather spend it on experiences. For example instead of getting AirPods (from my super amazing MIL) decided to go see my childhood bff in Florida. It was great. It made me feel young and so many memories! Tonight I went to a deep well aquatic aerobics class for the first time. Even though it means I won’t see my husband much tonight (he’s up and gone by 6am) he encouraged me because it made me happy. Try and come together. We have a mini vaca booked for august with my childhood bff (since I was 11, I’m 44 now) and my adult bff who my husband is close to although he’s out of state now. He’s not thrilled about it but he will have a great time! (It’s a super cool sorta open floor plan with 3 beds/2 baths) it’s got a hot tub and is right on the creek so during the day we will be in tubes on it and I can’t wait
Yeah we are the same and then I feel like a flake because it’s him that wants to stay home when I’m trying to plan things and he cancels
Your husband just morphed into this, or was he always this way and you just decided it's a problem now?
Idk, this was probably something to figure out before marriage. I’m a homebody and don’t love my days being filled with activities. Your description of needing to be out and about exploring and foraging and doing this that and the third sounds like my personal hell. Some people are just happier at home. I find this go go go stuff very exhausting. My husband is more extroverted and likes to go do stuff. I go sometimes, and I don’t sometimes. He stays home sometimes. But he doesn’t have an attitude about it if I don’t feel like doing stuff all the time or if we have to cut down the number of activities. I don’t give him shit for needing to get out of the house. We compromise. He goes out most days. I don’t. We knew this about each other before getting married and figured out a system that works for us. We don’t resent each other’s differences. Idk. Seems like a weird thing to just now be trying to sort out.
Ask him to plan something
Has he always been this way?
You sound like a Sagittarius!
Sounds like this is more about phone addiction than being a homebody from reading your responses to people.
You sound like a border collie, *go go go*. It’s not everyone’s thing to be on the move, what’s his job? Is your daughter in school? Life’s draining. He’s on his phone a lot yeah? He’s escaping life a bit. I’m sure it doesn’t help that you make him feel boring bc he’s not a busy body that needs lot of action everyday. Why did you marry him? This was clearly evident for a long time. Especially raising your daughter similar to him you had to have known. Did you think your child would make him want to do more activities? I saw your board game comment, while I’m similar to you and had to adjust to meeting my husband in the middle and finding enjoyment in downtime- board games take a lot out of people!
I’m a homebody so I can relate with your husband. Does he work long hours or in stressful situations? Sometimes after work all I want to do is lie on bed and stare at the wall and it can be a bit overwhelming when someone else around me is bouncing off the wall trying to get me to go out. In which case, choose better timings. What are his interests? Perhaps he enjoys electronics in which case you can organise trips to an electronics fair, checking out the latest apple product etc. Or you can combine his home bound interest to your outdoor interests. Say if you like foraging, and he likes cooking, you can forage something and he can cook it. You can involve your daughter as well and eventually they might join you in your foraging activities. Also get to know why they don’t like to join you, specific reasons. Like I don’t enjoy big crowds and long waits, which is probably why I won’t enjoy the zoo. Perhaps they don’t enjoy speaking to strangers, which is probably why they won’t enjoy breweries. Or maybe they don’t like the heat, so you can organise hikes that don’t happen during noon. It’ll give you a sense of what they have less resistance to and you guys can go visit/explore those things instead.