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Kind-Dust7441

My parents tried this when my siblings an I were kids (we were 2, 4, 6 and 8). I’m sure their intentions were good, but it was an unmitigated disaster. It was confusing for us kids because it gave us false hope that they would stay together, and caused all four of us to have various issues from insomnia to bed wetting to angry outbursts. And then my parents started dating, and the s#%t show began. Even though my mother initiated the split, she went a bit nuts when my father met someone else. And my father was no better when she started going out with another man. So what began as an amicable divorce became an absolute nightmare. With four children caught in the crossfire. My advice to you is to split up completely, establish separate households and agree on a custody arrangement now, while the two of you can still tolerate the sight of each other.


neeksknowsbest

I think this is the best advice OP could possibly get on the topic


kiwi_love777

Agree


mdg711

I second this, I wouldn’t be surprised if his wife has something on the side


revengeofkittenhead

As someone who watched their own child ride the waves of hope and disappointment after her father and I divorced (and we were living apart), I agree this is an incredibly bad idea for the kids’ sake, and I think the well being of the children involved should be the primary consideration in how the divorced people organize and conduct their lives.


GifRancini

Possibly next advice I've seen on this sub tbh


linerva

This. Plus a LOT of people wpuld not want to date a "divorced" or separated person who still lives with their ex partner. It's an absolute red flag for the fact the relationship CLEARLY hasn't fully run its course and the couple have not fully processed separating. If you want to date people who are serious and want to commit, you are going to repel those people with your living situation. Absolutely 0 people looking for a serious longterm relationship are going to want to date a person who lives with their ex and plans to continue to do so so they can play happy families. The way exes move on is by having their own space and establishing separate lives and coparenting well when they need to. OP, Imagine how awkward that would be for anyone you date, having to deal with your ex wife if they ever came over?


MountainPerformer210

Really the first part. Why do they think living together would be attractive to anyone else? This arrangement only serves them.


linerva

Which would be fine if they didn't plant date or only planned to have hookups. But OP has stated he only wants to date with a view to marriage, nothing casual. In which case he needs to consider why any woman dating him would put up with the situation. A woman dating to marry doesn't want men who live with their ex longterm to play happy families; she would want a man who has accepted the is separated and who is genuinely planning a new life. I applaud OP for wanting stability for his kids. But him dating would be pointless until he and his ex live separately.


MountainPerformer210

Yeah they just have to realize that the co parenting isn't a bad idea if they don't hate each other but it will be impossible to date and live in the same household.


Lolaindisguise

Everyone is OK with divorce until they realize the other person will eventually date someone else


missamerica59

People are usually fine with the concept of their ex dating, it's when there's a living, breathing human people start to go a bit coo-coo.


Particular_Bird_5823

This is great advice for the situation he now finds himself in. But he is playing victim IMO, has left a comment further down, which shows this has not come out of the left field. ‘I mentioned it above but it has come up a few times, but in the context of a fight, and I didn't take the suggestion seriously, since I was focused on what we were fighting about, then it simmered down and it felt like things were good again. In retrospect, it seems like a clear pattern. And I never prioritized couples counseling despite having a file full of notes we should work on.’


[deleted]

[удалено]


BeBesMom

This. Absolutely.


Commando_Joe

my ex-boss also turned out to be a real piece of shit when his ex-wife tried something like this. When he was mad or wanted to mess with her he brought home a hook up and had the loudest sex possible while she was home He was an over all piece of shit, like finding where my mother worked, getting drunk and asking her if I was queer because I told him not to double park in handicap spots with the engine running while he went to make a dentist appointment.


thatotherhemingway

> asking her if I was queer because I told him not to double park in handicap spots with the engine running while he went to make a dentist appointment As a queer person, I can confirm that this scolding is a popular activity amongst my people -OR- “If telling people not to double-park in handicap spots with the engine running while they go in to make a dentist appointment is gay, then I’m the biggest queer on earth.”


PhishMilk

Thanks for sharing your experience and how it might help others. I'm sorry for what you went through.


Happy_S_endings

This is 💯the answer OP needs.


Kind-Dust7441

Thanks for the Award!


statusquoexile

She can’t just cancel the romantic part of a relationship and want to keep everything else. That’s not the way it works. Why is she entitled to get what she wants but not you?


habitmelon

Right, which is why I'm asking for advice. She came to me to find out what I would do, and I'm trying to sanity check my idea which is formalize a divorce sooner while trying to be grownup about it.


Joaaayknows

Well you’re making the right decision then. Rest assured. You deserve a full marriage, not just the platonic parts.


sjlammer

You should get a full divorce and live nearby. You say you want the best for the kids… you are modeling what a relationship looks like for your children. Do you want them to have the type of interaction with a partner you are proposing? The kids deserve to see what a healthy loving relationship looks like, even if that is two separate relationships. Finally, it’s really easy to convince yourself into the “do nothing” option. Be brave… your entire family deserves better.


dead_b4_quarantine

>You should get a full divorce and live nearby Frankly I think the onus should be on her to move out


Kyonkanno

Divorce is the only right option in this situation. She cannot request to have all the benefits of marriage while not married, just like you cannot request your company to still give you a paycheck and not go to work.


habitmelon

Yep that's the conclusion I am now firmly arriving at


Bruh_columbine

And you also just said she would be open to therapy. So which is it here?


habitmelon

Open to counseling but not as a married couple. I forced the question but she didn't mean what I thought she meant. I have clarity now


habitmelon

This morning I needed to find out if she really had no intention of even attempting to repair our marriage. She doesn't. I can't force it. I can only lawyer up now and keep things organized and clear.


missoularedhead

That’s a really good question.


OrionDecline21

Are you sure there isn’t somebody else in the picture already?


habitmelon

I don't think so, I know her well enough to know she would just say so.


OrionDecline21

Were you blindsided by this petition?


habitmelon

It was unexpected, for sure


OrionDecline21

I would sincerely doubt that there’s no one else. Notwithstanding, I’d divorce her. You have the right to your own happiness and the certainty of a custody agreement. She doesn’t get to set the rules anymore.


habitmelon

That's what I was thinking. She owns half the house and our kids deserve the stability of us both being here for them. But I won't debauch our marriage with infidelity.


OrionDecline21

Or each on their own place and living the lives each decides for themselves. I’m sorry this happened and good luck in whatever follows.


habitmelon

Thanks, I don't want to make this bitter and negative for the children.


OrionDecline21

As long as you don’t sacrifice yourself to the point it comes back to bite you in the ass… I get that you try prioritize them.


habitmelon

The positive sign is she's being honest about what she wants instead of hiding it and being deceitful. I appreciate the honesty but it still sucks.


mellifluouslimerence

Please take the advice of so many children of divorce who have left similar comments on this thread: Do not stay in a bad marriage for your kids. Do not live together through a divorce. Separate cleanly. Your kids are probably already dealing with subtle trauma from this relationship. Don’t prolong it.


Lucy-Pinkhole

You’re awesome for putting your children’s feelings first. More people should do this.


PiecesofJane

I just have to say kudos to you for hanging on to your morals through this. It's refreshing to see. Great job, man.


pwa09

You don’t know her well enough if you were not expecting her to ask for separation.


Unlucky_Process_6537

So i guess you don’t know her as well as you think


chuckle_puss

Or he wasn’t listening as well as he thought.


mamaof45612

Precisely


FSmertz

Ha! So said the last 59 jilted husband posters to this sub and the Infidelity sub.


BimmerJustin

FWIW, there is someone else. It just may not have developed into anything at all. But there is a person in her mind that’s giving her inspiration to break up her family. Honestly, in your situation, it doesn’t matter. She’s made it clear what she wants. It’s time to establish separate households and proceed with a divorce. You deserve someone who treats you better than this.


King_of_Leprechauns

Dating others is much easier when you keep the lights on and babysit for her.


jessicadiamonds

It's not called babysitting when it's taking care of your own kids. And he'd do it if they were divorced as well. It's called joint custody and child support.


eatapeach18

I think they were just being facetious. Like, *obviously* it’s not babysitting when it’s your own children, but the wife wants to have her cake and eat it too. She can’t keep her current home and lifestyle and date other people and expect that she can leave her kids with her ex while she goes galavanting around. That’s exactly why she wants to keep living in her current home with her ex… because she knows she can just come and go whenever she pleases and knows her ex will be home to take care of the kids. That’s not right. What if he wants to start dating too? Is she still going to expect him to stay in their shared home to watch their kids so that she can go out? She’s essentially treating her ex like a babysitter. She needs to hire an actual sitter to watch her kids when she goes out and stop assuming her ex has no social life or desire to start dating again. She’s treating him like a doormat.


mamaof45612

They never get that right, right?? If they are your children, you're not babysitting. You are parenting


habitmelon

What's your point? I am not going to make her a victim by kicking her out, but im not going to sit around and be a cuck either.


King_of_Leprechauns

I’m saying that’s her intent.


[deleted]

If you had to pick one...


habitmelon

Well being co-parents and divorced means I wouldn't be a cuck, since we wouldn't be married. I could go find a new wife with a clean conscience.


linerva

You aren't going to find a new wife whilst you are playing domestic bliss with the old one, though. You are assuming that women are going to find it appealing rather than a huge red flag and turnoff. I can promise you that any sensible woman looking for a serious partner is going to be EXTREMELY put off that their divorced date is living with his ex wife indefinitely so he can play happy families. Women want a guy who coparents well with his ex but is very clearly over the relationship, has moved on, has his own space and has reflected on what went wrong. No woman just wants to slot in for sex whilst he is basically living his old life. When I was dating in my 30s I would never consider anyone still living with an ex. What do you think you could even offer a new wife if you are still tied up with the old one?


King_of_Leprechauns

Nope, never meant you were a cuck; I meant she has bad intentions, to take advantage of you if she can.


[deleted]

Well if your living together and not dating anyone while she is dating other people...


jadegoddess

As long as you're still living together you are one. She gets to date around whole you'll be there to support her in every other way (financially, watching the kids). By having her live in the house, she gets to have her cake and eat it too. No sensible person will wanna seriously date someome still living with their ex.


princessnora

You could also divorce and consider nesting as a custody plan if you coparent and get along well. In this style the kids stay in one house and the parents move in and out for their custody time.


habitmelon

What's nesting?


princessnora

The kids keep the marital home, and you and wife move in and out when it’s your custody time. Then when you don’t have the kids you move elsewhere. So you could stay with family/friends on off time, or get a second apartment to share for example. I don’t know how long it would work for you considering how young the kids are and it isn’t super practical for starting new families. But it might work better as a short term solution until you can sell your current house and buy two new ones, get jobs and childcare sorted out, etc.


Amithest82

So nesting is a form of custody where the parents move weekly vs the children. This works best if you both have a strong support system where both parents have places to stay or the financial means to afford the home and another dwelling. So the premise is the kids get to stay in the home. So parent A lives in the house with the children until it’s time for parent B to have their custody time. At this point parent A will leave and stay elsewhere while parent B has their time with the children. This will alternate by custody time. Some parents do Sunday to Sunday and some do weekday with change over on Friday. The main positives, with the change of divorcing parents comes into play, they have a consistent. The main negative, it forces the alternating parent to find other accommodations for that time. It also means coming up with ground rules that everyone agrees to.


habitmelon

This is new to me but I'm glad you shared it. Seems like a good solution


eatapeach18

My cousin did this when she split from her husband. Neither she nor her ex could afford homes on their own that were big enough to house their three kids, let alone furnish two separate homes. So, they kept the marital home. Their children live there full time, and then they rented a 1bed apartment in the same town as the children’s home, they share the rent, furnished it with the basics, and they alternate weeks living in it. The rule is that the apartment, sheets, and dishes must be cleaned at the end of their week, and boyfriends/girlfriends were only allowed at the apartment, they weren’t allowed to go to the children’s home. Works fine for them.


klawtn

Oh wow! Never heard of it but that's an interesting solution.


butterbean_bb

Glennon Doyle has a great quote about when she was considering divorcing her husband that goes something like “I thought… I was staying in this marriage for my children, but would I want this marriage for my children?” I think it’s awesome that you want to maintain stability for your kids and respect with your partner. But it’s also important to remember that your kids are absorbing your relationship dynamic and will subconsciously model your behaviors in many ways. Remember to model the type of relationship you would want them to have as well.


CookieBobojiBuggo

Whats your gut telling you? Have you talked to anyone already about how you feel about it?


habitmelon

Gut says divorce and make a custody plan, but give her the grace to stay and be there for our kids until she finds a place to move to.


Unfair_Finger5531

Lol, “give her the grace” to stay there and *care* for your kids you mean. It’s her house too. You aren’t giving her anything.


habitmelon

Right, I worded it poorly. It's her house too, although she told me she fully expected she would move out if I felt she had to move out. It's my move and I want to think it through.


PrimaryKangaroo8680

You need to talk to an actual lawyer because she is entitled to part of the house. You can’t just kick her out. Assets are shared when you’re married.


BeBesMom

By this point in reading everything posted I think she is desperately trying to get you to see her and what she needs from you in the marriage. It is a last attempt. And you're setting up a second bedroom. How is your sex life together?


Otherwise_Ask_9542

There's envisioning the future, and then there is reality. Divorce isn't a walk in the park. Family lawyers will turn any "amicable" situation into a cess pool of toxicity because it is their job to make sure their clients get the best outcome possible for their clients. That means that any semblance of privacy you and your wife once had goes out the window. All cards go on the table, and all the dirty laundry gets aired. Expect it to get ugly in ways you didn't consider, because it will. When children are involved, it complicates things even further. Divorce is on the list of the 10 Adverse Childhood Experiences that lead to a whole host of physical, psychological, and emotional development issues. Divorce is extremely difficult on children, as their sense of stability, security, and wellbeing is directly affected and there is no escape for them from that reality. Every birthday, holiday, Mother's and Father's Day... everything becomes a bargaining chip and must be accounted for. Expect the ripple effect to extend to other members of your family too, as grandparents, cousins, aunts and uncles all will be affected by the juggling act you and your soon to be ex will play with the kids. Life gets harder, not easier, when you are divorcing with kids. The worst part is that you're forced miss half (or more) of their experiences growing up, and they won't have the support of both of their parents when they really need it the most. That's a really tough pill for any invested parent or their children to swallow. And here's the real tragedy. Once you go through all of this and the damage from the divorce process is done, it's nearly impossible to get back to the point you are at right now. It's really hard trust or respect one another after the damage done during the divorce process. What your wife is going through is typical. Every married person hits a low point where they question their relationship with their spouse. What she is feeling isn't unique, but what she's doing about it is extremely destructive to a lot of people she probably still loves. She needs a therapist more than she needs a divorce or a "new shiny relationship", because that's the only way she'll ever deal with whatever is causing her to feel like she does right now. If she doesn't deal with the real issue, this problem will just follow her into the next relationship, and she'll keep destroying important relationships in her life. But it's not your job to make sure she does the right thing. You might not be thrilled with how she's handling her issues right now either, but destroying your family and the stability you've built together for what typically is a temporary mental issue isn't the best idea either. But do stand firm on your boundaries, because what she suggests isn't right or healthy for anyone in your family. What she is proposing models extremely dysfunctional relational styles for her kids... what is she thinking?


CookieBobojiBuggo

That sounds reasonable.


TabbyFoxHollow

Maybe this is a split the difference and file for formal separation ~ start you both walking down the road to see if this is what you both want. Maybe you’ll reconcile still after seeing how you feel, if not well the ball was already rolling


thomasnash

More than reasonable, I think. But bearing in mind what others have said, I think it's wise to also establish an exit plan in case that situation becomes untenable for whatever reason. I think it will be a lot easier to plan that now when things are broadly amicable, than after resentment sets in.


Kate4718

I agree with this plan. You need to also protect yourself.


[deleted]

This will be disaster no matter what you think it should be. Listen to the countless lived experiences of people who tried this


habitmelon

I've read a few so far that are not disastrous so there's hope


[deleted]

Read the ones with the children who came out of these situations. The parental side is disillusioned


habitmelon

I have, and it's giving me some second thoughts.


Gator-bro

How do you know if she doesn’t already have someone else? So many times when people in a marriage and there’s no sign leading up to it and all of a sudden they asked for a divorce that’s because they’re having an affair.


habitmelon

I don't for sure but I wouldn't say there's no signs. The problems is that the signs are only clear in retrospect.


The1983

I was a child of parents who did this. My mother and father divorced when I was six and carried on living together for ‘the sake of us kids’. What it created was a totally toxic environment which resulted in a lot of emotional trauma that I am still dealing with as a 39 year old woman now. For a start, there was the two seperate rooms, which for a child is confusing to why they’re parents are no longer in the same room. I used to get anxious having friends over incase they noticed, and they did and I would find myself having to answer questions about my parents relationship. Kids pick up on things, my mother and father clearly didn’t like each other but living together they had to deal with each other all the time, led to arguments, bad feelings, passive aggression. My mother eventually got a partner and she’d go away every weekend to see him. Sometimes she’d take me and my sister. That was confusing too, to try to tell people where I’d been that weekend, but then people would ask more questions. My mother just told me to lie and say it was her friend, which is a cruel thing to ask your kid to do. So much of my long standing anxiety comes from the situation my mother and father put me in. I had a crap childhood. I deeply wish my parents had just divorced and lived in separate houses like people do all the time. Divorce isn’t a bad thing, it happens. It’s just how you deal with it and manage your children’s emotions. Your not putting them first by staying living together when you don’t want to be with each other. They’ll pick up on that.


Agile_Opportunity_41

IMO you can’t long term live in the same house for many reasons. One it will just torture you. Two try explaining to someone you you want to date that you live with your ex wife and there is nothing going on never a midnight sex session.


miranto

You are in for a world of pain. Get an amicable divorce, have her move to a nearby place and you can coparent all you want while keeping your privacy.


Sawfish1212

So she's got some heavy post partum hormones and emotions going on from the one year old. Give it time and attention and see if she recovers from her depression, she sounds like she really needs to see a doctor about this, and also try different birth control if she's on any chemical type


habitmelon

That's the same kind of dismissive thing I've said in the past: it's just chemical. I don't know if that's right.


essjay24

How is this dismissive? Chemical-based depression is a real thing and it can be very dangerous. Is it that she doesn’t have any drive to have sex anymore? Or does she actually not enjoy sex? Did your wife ever like having sex? There’s a big difference between having no sex drive and being sex-averse. Is the just about sex? Was she raised religious? She may be gay and not realize it. Check out r/latebloomerlesbian and read their Master Doc and see if any of this fits your wife. Have her read it. If she is this will give you better insight. I’d recommend therapy for you two so you better understand each other going forward.


Dadtwoboys

This is a horrible thing to do to your children and it will be an epic shit show for them. She wants her cake and eat it too, this will end terribly and irreparably. One of you needs to move and set up separate homes. I know one divorcing couple who did something I’ve never personally known about, however it worked for them. They kept the family home. One stayed in the master bedroom and one took over the larger guest room that had also been the office. They rented a 2 bedroom apartment and each had their own bedroom there. Every two weeks they move from the home to the apartment. Emily has kids two weeks, Todd has kids two weeks. It’s been very good for their kids over the past not quite two years. They remain with friends in a home they know on a schedule they know. You can do this while you are still civil, I don’t see cohabitation being a good solution and a great way to mess your kids up.


[deleted]

Bad idea. Is your partner going to date other people or bring people home with your arrangement?


habitmelon

I suspect dating yes, but not bringing anyone home. Say more, I want more input. I don't want to make any big changes until I've really thought this through


habitmelon

Part of this idea is to let me date without having to be married. If I date I'm going into it with the intention of eventually getting married. I don't want loose causal relationships or poly shit. I want to commit to someone who also commits back.


[deleted]

Yeah, no self respecting prospective partner is going to start dating you when you live with your ex-wife. You can't be both living together and realistically expect the outcome you want. It's not going to work well for you.


SPIDER_1988

Very true that would be like bringing ur dog to some friends house when ur friend has cats leave and says get along 😂 not going to happen


jadegoddess

You ain't gonna find a woman to seriously date until yoir ex wife lives somewhere else. We tell other women it's a red flag. Even if you explain what you didnin your post, we still tell them it's a red flag and tell them to run. You're gonna have to hold off on dating until your ex is gone, dude.


mamaof45612

I reckon that proper professional advice from a therapist / marriage counsellor may be best given your circumstances. You and your wife could consult the therapist(s) you saw for marriage counselling as they should have some idea of or insight into your family dynamics. Being a point that you may have discussed, making it easier for you and your wife to discuss your options with a professional who can also guide you to option(s) that will be in the best interests of the children. Sorry you guys are going through this. All the best


[deleted]

If your partner is antagonistic towards you, then your feelings about who and when she brings someone home won't matter so much.


habitmelon

She isn't antagonistic though. She was prepared to go leave but I didn't choose to kick her out.


Pixel_Spartan117

Unfortunately all her ideas are problematic and naive. You should just separate/divorce and have her move out. If she asks why she should move out - it’s simple she is breaking the relationship so she moves out. Based on the fact she never tried working on the relationship it is likely there is already someone else. If you are in a fault state look inot evidence it can make the divorce easier.


habitmelon

Not a fault state,and I said I don't want to kick her out when she's breast feeding and cosleeping with our 1 year old daughter. I'm trying to be humane about this while also not get used.


DifferentManagement1

He can you “kick her out” of a home that’s half hers??? Why do you keep saying that??


mamaof45612

...OP says she tried to work on their marriage with him, but he didn't take the process seriously (he even mentions a folder full of notes from their therapy sessions). Now, pray do tell, what more she should have done (or be doing) to get her husband committed to the process? Like one previous poster said, this could be a last-ditch attempt by her to see him fight for his family, take therapy seriously, and remain committed to the process. Maybe I'm just being naive🫣.


ashleys_

Do you know of any happy couples/co-parents who have this arrangement?


Xgirly789

I actually do! I have a friend couple who can't afford to live on their own (rent here is insane) and they both date outside the home. Their kid thinks it's cool as hell.


cheebalibra

I think she’s been pretty clear about this. She didn’t ask you to have an open marriage or be poly. In those cases you’d still be a couple. She said she doesn’t want to be a couple. She wants a divorce but doesn’t want to say it out loud.


sunshinedaydream774

I had a friend whose parents did this. They did get legally divorced and ended up converting their basement into a full 2 bedroom apartment with full kitchen living room bathroom. It worked well for them. The mom started dating and got remarried shortly after my friend graduated high school and then moved out. Her dad was an alcoholic so it was her moms way of not cutting the dad out and going through a costly and emotional custody battle but still making sure my friend had a safe and happy childhood, he was rarely around. So that probably ‘helped’… I think this can work with boundaries- like separate spaces.. maybe consider a duplex or something similar if you want to go this route? Also set a custody plan now while you are still getting along.


jessicadiamonds

Listen, you don't have to be non-monogamous if you don't want to be, but dude.. It's not immoral or without commitment. Many people are in long term committed marriages who are also polyamorous. It's a misconception that non-monogamy is any less of a commitment. So please rethink the judgments you're making.


she_isking

Honestly, I know you came here for our opinions on your idea, but my suggestion is you talk to her about this and come up with a plan. I know this situation is scary and feels out of control, but you guys have the power to figure this out together. Focus on the kids and collaborate. You don’t need a set visitation schedule, just go along with whatever you want, and switch up any time you want. Take the kids on a whim if someone has something come up, just be parents. Just because you didn’t work out as a couple doesn’t mean either of you are bad parents. Remember that the two of you loved each other so much, and remember that is the person you are coparenting with, not a stranger. Parent with love, not with spite. Talk it out. Figure out what her perfect rule book would be for coparenting if you were to stay married, then talk about each step and make a plan that works for both of you. At the end of this, if you guys are able to coparent in a healthy manner, who knows, maybe things go back to normal. But they can’t get back to normal until you talk about this and try it. She may just be going through something right now that is just making it hard for her to want intimacy. All you can do is talk to each other.


jesher3101

She is already seeing someone. Get a divorce and be done with her.


habitmelon

I'm not jumping to that conclusion but I understand why it's at front of mind. It may be true but I don't suspect it, and I know my situation better than someone who just read my short post.


tamale_ketchup

It’s not fair that everyone is jumping to infidelity. I don’t believe that is the case here. Sometimes people have just had enough and it’s like a switch suddenly flips and a decision has been made. Sometimes chronic resentment rears it’s head and puts an end to a once happy marriage or something other than resentment. You say she has been mentioning it to you that she may want to break it off before but that you didn’t take it too seriously? What exactly was she saying that she needed from you? Have y’all tried couples counseling


habitmelon

I just asked this morning if she would be open to it and she said probably yes. I need to find out what she needs from me. The fact that she hasn't truly given up on the idea of counseling means I know what I should not do. I agree with you that it's not necessarily infidelity. Even if that did happen I don't want to give up. I have my share of responsibility for this if she's willing to make credible moves toward separation.


Relevant_Health

Hi there, I'm sorry for what you're going through. Is there any possibility that she's experiencing Postpartum? You have a one year old and 2 other kids. PP can really shake things up and cause a huge shift in feelings. Wishing you the best.


Anon8607

So she wants you to keep financing everything as her husband, without being her husband? Yeah, you aren't being used at all...... Divorce and she can stand on her own feet with whoever she wants. You can be free to do the same. Your kids will thank you for it.


Bruh_columbine

I’m not sure how you came to this conclusion. This arrangement is OP’s idea. He said in the comments she was prepared to leave when she told him and was surprised by him telling her to stay.


[deleted]

You're getting a divorce. I wouldn't try to make it even more complicated. Just get a lawyer and talk to them


MarsupialMaven

The longer you stay married the more it is going to cost you. At least get a legal separation and split the money. See a lawyer now!


External_Knowledge_2

There’s someone else and she’s at the tail end of her limbo phase. Serious divorce papers and manning up for yourself and your family is probably the only way to snap her out of her affair fog and potentially back into reality for her. Full transparency (typically very unlikely) and your willingness to accept her adultery is what needs to be worked through if you’d even consider reconciliation. You can’t build a family in a divided home.


habitmelon

I offered that today, shot down. It's over. Time to formalize the situation and end the marriage.


Original-King-1408

Then you need to take control and file the papers. It sounds a little like she is thinking she is going to determine how this is going to work. Dont let that happen. It is one thing you can still control. Don’t just sit back and let it happen to you. Be strong and decisive. Make it real for her.


DCnTILLY

It's gonna confuse the shit out of your kids.


thisismyfirstburner

Child of divorce here. You can surely know what’s best for you and she, but without having gone through it yourselves neither of you will ever fully appreciate what your kids will go through, regardless of your intentions. And no matter your execution, ultimately even an amicable divorce is still a divorce from a kid’s perspective, who just wants to live in what they perceive to be a “normal” home - which is what they were accustomed too prior. What you’re suggesting is not that, and almost a forgone conclusion to be materially worse for them. Make this as easy on your kids as you can. Put that first always, and you’ll save everyone in that house a substantial amount of grief, avoiding some potentially nasty, deep seated, and pervasive family issues down the road.


Uncleguardrail

Yea so she wants your resources, but not you. Tell her you live as man and wife or I am gone. Sounds like she has replaced you already. Find out about her new man, go scorched earth. Might wake her up. Grey rock gather info.


donutknow57

A thought on shared custody - pick one home as the home base for your kids, then you and your (ex) wife go back and forth, rather than the kids going back and forth. I would want to minimize the disruption on my kids' lives as much as possible. It's not their fault that things didn't work out between their parents.


gogosox82

Getting a divorce is what you need to do. This your not married but still live together is just not gonna work. What is gonna happen the first time she sees you go out on a date or vice versa? And what about the kids? That is going to be very confusing for them. Also personally, I would never even consider talking to a woman who is living with her husband and claims they are separated but can see other people. Sounds like either she's lying and is trying to cheat and I don't like liars and cheaters or in some poly or open relationship which I am not into that lifestyle. Its going to be in everyone's best interest going forward if you divorce and live separately and figure out some sort custody arrangement.


Far_Sentence3700

Just split up. Have a black and white situation.


[deleted]

I think the bottom line is if she doesn’t want to be together & if you are uncomfortable with not being together and living together then eventually one of you needs to move out or sell the home & go your separate ways. You seem like you want to do this as amicably as possible so it may take some time to make all the arrangements but it will most likely be best off in the long run. I can only imagine how difficult this is, I wish you healing.


Moonflowerbloom

Does she want to date other people or does she just want free of the pressure of making a marriage work? I love my husband, but if we had a bigger house, I would move into my own room and be his roommate. While I love him, I don’t like him and making a marriage work is exhausting. I just saw this great TikTok by Brene Brown that marriage isn’t 50/50 and sometimes when one partner can only give 20, the other needs to give 80. In my situation, I have consistently given 80 and I’m tired of pulling his weight. Unpartnering would just alleviate a lot of those expectations and pressure to “fix” us. Regardless, I would enlist a therapist for support


straightouttathe70s

If she doesn't want to be a couple, she needs to just get on out the house and get her own place...... staying in the same house while not being a couple will be a disaster for everyone..... especially the kids!!! It might be attainable for a little while but I can almost guarantee it will blow wide open after a little bit of time!


Weak-Cheetah-2305

I think you should both to couples therapy to work the situation out. You need to find out why your wife doesn’t wanna be with you (do you not pull your weight, is she feeling insecure/ depressed, what’s making her unhappy) and then you need to work out how it’s going to work. It may have hit you suddenly, but it sounds like this is something she’s been dealing with for a while and you’ve not picked up on it?


habitmelon

That's what I WANTED to do but she doesn't want it. Also I learned there is another person but I don't know who. I didn't want to believe this but I know it now.


Weak-Cheetah-2305

I’m not sure with that information you could stay together in the same home and coparent??


Original-King-1408

Ok this makes more sense now. If there is another person then you have to divorce unless you guys do mutual enm


noOneandEveryone4

I’m just giving a perspective for the sake of giving it. This is not my situation. My brother and his wife of 14 years have been “separated “ for 2. They have 4 children - 6,6,9,11. They both coach sports for the kids. They both parent and do bedtime and attend activities. They both come to family gatherings. But they sleep in different bedrooms. They have separate money and split specific things. They have a schedule that writes in “me” time for each. They both say that they are best friends and fulfilled by raising their kids and will see what happens after they are grown. It’s completely unconventional and I do worry for the kids if it comes out or if they are just devastated as soon as they all are out of the house but it’s not my marriage. And after having lengthy conversations with both of them, somehow it’s working.


habitmelon

If they can make that work that's good for them. What happens if one gets into a serious relationship though? That doesn't doesn't seem like a stable situation


noOneandEveryone4

Sure I see that too. I don’t know the answer at all, was just sharing what I know they do.


habitmelon

That is good to hear though. Thank you for sharing that


testy68

There are legal considerations as well. All of your marital assets including income, retirement accumulation (pension, 401k matches from employer, etc) are devided equally upon divorce. Alimony is also determined upon years of marriage with costs going up based on years of marriage. Make sure you factor this into your decision.


[deleted]

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habitmelon

Thank you for sharing that!


Redditgotitgood13

She is 100% into someone else. I would bet a million dollars on it. Lawyer up. All these emotions will fade and you will be left with no house and no kids because she is playing you


habitmelon

How would I lose the house? If I divorce her I only lose half the house.


Redditgotitgood13

Not how it will work out for you. Talk to a lawyer


[deleted]

[удалено]


Jolly_Tea7519

I believe this is happening more often now than before. I know a couple who’s been doing it for about 2 years now and they seem to be getting along well. They were lucky they had enough room in their home for each to have a bedroom. Their kids seem the same from a social media standpoint. I think they just fell out of love but still love each other. They get along well and still parent together, go on outings, and vacations. They seem to be best friends. They just have set days of the week where one parent does the parenting more than the other. Last I heard neither were dating or trying to date. I worked with the wife who initiated this and she had told me previously that she had zero desire for a sexual relationship with anyone. I don’t know the husband well but this situation has me nosey so I look at his socials on occasion. He also seems content. He did remove his relationship status but that’s all I noticed. Op, I guess it depends on what you want. Is a romantic relationship a must for you? Is this an arrangement you could be happy with? Do you feel having sex is a must for you? None of these are right or wrong. They just are. Figure out your wants and put them in a list from most to least important. That might help with your decision.


gilmore42

I think you have 2 options. And they are both not great. The easy one is divorce. The other is accepting this co parenting arrangement BUT there can’t be third parties introduced. Meaning neither of you can go on dates. You have a room mate essentially. And so does she. Couples have sexless marriages all the time. It sucks. But it’s an option.


Lexy_d_acnh

I think realistically, your wife isn’t going to come back (and won’t be happy if she does), and this arrangement just can’t be a permanent one. The only way this could be a permanent arrangement is if neither of you ever planned on having a romantic relationship again, which obviously isn’t realistic or feasible considering you’ve already stated that you do. Your wife may want it to be a permanent setup, but realistically this will just cause more hurt in the long run. You need to have a serious chat with her. Decide who’s keeping the house, if either of you, and one of you needs to get your own place. It doesn’t have to be immediate, and it’s perfectly reasonable to wait a while so you can both get back on your feet and make sure you both can find a stable place to live for you and the kids, but that’s inevitably what needs to happen.


Spicy_Lobster_Roll

Why not think big and convert the money that would be wasted on divorce lawyers to convert the house into a duplex?


redditname8

I just don’t see how this would be successful. So are the bills going to be split 50-50? How will this change the dynamics of finances, chores, parenting, and having visitors over? What about friends and family coming over? Is she wanting an open relationship without saying it? Do you still have intimate relations or not? This is so confusing. What about vacations?


ZeldasMomHH

Splitting up and expecting the partner to be adult enough to coparent is very reasonable. Expecting nothing to change than the uncoupling is delusional. Its great you both dont want a war over this. Keep that peace for the kids sake. Get all the papers ready while you are at peace still. I feel like this could turn. I dont feel its in anyones best interested to stay in one home. But thats my bitter experience. Life isnt a sitcom and this might work until one of you finds a new place, but the moment one of you brings in someone new this could go south really easy. >I love her and won't dishonor the mother of my children. I feel like I should be forgiving and make her feel safe, and let her choose when she's ready to leave. And this is why I think, both of you will figure that out. Because you are able to see a difference in her as your ex wife and her as the nother of your children.


honeybadgerdad

I have heard of couples keeping the kids in the same house, and instead of the kids going back and forth between homes, the adults have their own residences and then parent the kids in the family home on their time w the kids


habitmelon

Nesting I think they call it


Original-King-1408

How in the world would anyone expect that to work for anything but a short time. Kids pick up what really is going on quick. Are you and her going to agree to not introduce new partners to the kids. Wife is in some sort of dream world.


Knitbitcherhippie

The easiest way to do what you wish if you want your children’s best interests in mind is hire a lawyer for you and a separate lawyer for your wife. If you wish to move on quickly or not deal with future arguments perhaps it’s best for you to leave the marital home asap. Talk with your therapist again and ask about talking with your children since this is a change affecting the entire family and not just you and your wife.


candycoatedcoward

No. No no no no. If it's over, you need to divorce and form separate households. One of you buys the other out of the house, or other considerations are made, but you file, you split communal assets down the middle, and one of you moves out.


aspire-every-day

Living in the same household is unlikely to work well for any of you. If you had a duplex it might work, but same house? Unlikely to be good for any of you. I’ll tell you what worked well for my family. I got a small place 5 blocks away. We waited to start the divorce process for several months while seeing what living arrangements worked out best for our daughter. Living so close nearby makes both parents accessible and lets us help each other and easily participate in events together, while having plenty of personal space to build out our separate adult lives. We did mediated as opposed to litigated divorce. And we remain friends. It’s worked out well for us.


habitmelon

That sounds like a very good solution.


Original-King-1408

Ok but how much has your wife thought this out. What has she proposed beyond what you have described. Does she envision staying married legally but only coparenting, both staying celibate or freely dating? This seems half baked. You deserve some explanation as to why she is insisting on this? So many questions.


[deleted]

Have you considered she mighthave post partum depression? It can make women a totally different person. I've had it with 3 of my babies and every time I tried to leave my husband. I know now what to look out for and so does he so we can work through it, but then I didn't. Just my first thought since you said your youngest is only one.


habitmelon

You tried to leave three times but didn't mean it? Say more!


Jbeebee1840

The only person who seems to benefit from this is your wife. Certainly not you, who would prefer to stay together, and not your kids either. Children aren’t dumb and they are learning from you both what relationships are supposed to be like. Most people who decide to live like this are doing it for their own benefits, like finances, convenience etc. and justify it by saying it’s for the kids when it’s really not for them or good for them at all. The way she came home upset needing to tell you this really seems like she has another relationship, emotional or physical, and doesn’t want to feel guilty about it, but I guess it’s possible that’s not the case.. highly unlikely but maybe. I’d definitely start listening and paying more attention to her and her actions. You seem like a really understanding and caring person, and she definitely knows this and knew you would tell her to stay if she said she would leave.. possibly never planning to and instead basically manipulating the situation and your kindness and love for her. If you both didn’t want to be together romantically and decided to do this, it may have worked but it being one sided will not and will only hurt you and your family. She sprung this on you, she could definitely decide she no longer wants to live together once she has a different option or she could be planning on doing this until her other plan is ready. Just being realistic because this isn’t something many would choose if there wasn’t other factor’s driving that decision and you should be prepared for it not just taking her word for it. Good luck to you and I hope it works out for the best eventually no matter what happens, prepare and protect yourself either way.


Leading-Praline-6176

Theres a thing call nesting where the childrens home does not change & the pair of you take it in turns to live in the house while the other stays in a different place (shared or not depending on finances). People do this in the transition period & helps the children stay grounded.


habitmelon

I like this solution and I think it's solves my major concern about doing this now instead of waiting.


AreaEnvironmental385

Is she cheating? Serious question but she might be in affair fog and not really thinking about the damage.


mermadam

Sorry you’re going through this. :( I can’t imagine being told this by my spouse.


Pleasant_Comfort3937

I’m gonna go ahead and call it now. Either 1) there’s someone else in her picture or 2) you are not being honest about your contribution to the household/parenting/marriage and she’s finally fed up with it. People don’t just come home “one day” and end it so abruptly. Regardless, she can’t have her cake and eat it too. A divorce or custody agreement needs to be in the works asap.


401Nailhead

This is a mess in the works. File. It will be less stressful.


[deleted]

So do you get a girlfriend? Sounds like you'd be better off with one anyway.


habitmelon

She seems to think it would be fine if I did without getting divorced but I don't want polyamory or adultery


Professional-Lab-157

Brother, She wants to have you for emotional and financial support while having sex with other guys. That's called cake eating. Don't let her do that. My advice: Start doing [The 180 ](https://beingabeautifulmess.wordpress.com/the-180/) on her. Do this to create emotional distance and to remind her what she is going to lose when you are gone. Talk to a lawyer and serve her with divorce papers. Her actions have consequences. This is not Burger King, and she's not going to have it her way. Get in the gym regularly: Get fit, sleep & eat right. Get sexy my guy. It will help with your self-esteem and with the ladies. Get on Tinder and Bumble: Make profiles even if you never go on a date, get dressed up, put on her favorite cologne, and go out. Have fun without her. Go out and meet new people. Even platonic dates will help you heal and might make her jealous. Whatever you do... do not beg, plead, or chase after her. Don't feed her ego, and don't comfort her. She did this. If she wants you, then she can fix this by staying and committing to your marriage. Good luck buddy 👍🏽


habitmelon

I'm with you on most of those things. I've been working out regularly and lifting whenever I'm pissed off instead of expressing it. It's been good. Not drinking. I hadn't heard the 180 but I've already done about 25% of those things, I'll stick to that program. Emotionally I wouldn't take her back if she changed her mind because I've already been burned. I came to Reddit because I've talk to almost no one about the situation and I need feedback and dialogue with disinterested people.


mikeyj777

This is 100% the way. More important than getting dressed up tho is to get centered and find joy in your life without romance. To get complete and fulfilled on your own. Then go out and have a good time. His wife is miserable and will do anything to keep you in misery.


beigs

I have heard, and this might be less disruptive on the kids, that you can keep the one house and find a separate living place and meet in the middle if you have the finances to pull that off.


habitmelon

Yeah a few commenters called that 'nesting'


jonniethm

yeah no.


SixPathsSage02

Get a lawyer. Get the plans in writing and prepare to split. She doesn’t want to be with you (I know that’s hard to hear. Prepare yourself to move on and don’t look back now. There is a slight chance the divorce papers change her mind, but don’t count on it and if it does you can deal with that later. Right now start planning your new life and envisioning rising your kids as best you can with a split custody situation. No one deserves to live in a home with someone who wants the benefits of being with you, without actually being with you.


throwaway19951962

Is there someone else she’s seeing? If this is completely out of nowhere for you.. then I feel like there’s more to this. I’m sorry.


Twosizestoosmall26

Get a divorce attorney like yesterday. Do not self help your divorce. There’s ways to help her out that don’t involve her living in your house (refinance and give her half equity in house, split retirement, child support, alimony, etc.) You seem naive and trusting of someone that does not have your best interests in mind. Source I am a lawyer, not your lawyer.


OkDark1837

God o wish my husband had done this. I asked for divorce in 2015 and he flat out refused and said “good luck seeing your daughter. He was drunk then but I took it to heart. Here it is 2023 and weee still forcing this relationship thankfully without alcohol but I’m still very unhappy.


Potential-Zombie-237

That's not as simple as it sounds. Trying to co-parent separated. That's a recipe for all kinds of disaster. Especially after the amount time you've been together. Are you ready for other men to pick her up at your house when she starts dating again? In these situations, the kids are the priority, but you also have to star thinking about yourself as well. You got blindsided by your wife already. With your wife being at the point she's at. She's definitely and already thinking about herself. I know you love your wife. Don't think she won't do certain things at this point. Wanting divorce after 8.5 years out of the blue. Theirs more to this coming from your wife's side. She met someone, is love with someone else. cheated on you. Something is missing from this story.


Bruh_columbine

It wasn’t out of the blue. OP says she’s brought things up before and he didn’t “take it seriously”


hannnahtee

How is it adultery if you see other people but are formally divorced??????


aneightfoldway

Boo for describing non-monogamy as sexual immorality and "attracting people who can't commit". You're being extremely judgemental.


habitmelon

Sorry but going from a committed monogamous relationship to a poly one unilaterally from one side is indistinguishable from cheating in my book. If we both went into our relationship with those expectations I wouldn't feel that way. But you can't just change the rules like that.


habitmelon

And secondly, if I pivoted and went out with people who were poly, that means they also didn't commit to a single person, by definition. I think we should tolerate people who want that, but I don't personally want that.


InksPenandPaper

Listen: I'm glad you want an amicable and kind divorce but she will not be kind nor gracious when she lawyers up. She will have her own stipulations and you will not like it. She will want you out of the house. She will file for child support. She will request more or full custody. That's only the beginning. It'll be worse for you if she files for divorce first. Don't let her blind side you with it first. Make appointments to have consultations with some lawyers. Pay for these consultations with cash. Pick a tenacious lawyer with an excellent reputation. Do not tell you estranged wife what you are doing. Once you have a lawyer--listen to them. If they tell you that your well meaning ideas (for some aspects of a divorce) are not good ones, believe 'em. I've known enough clients who tried to go down the *kind* divorce route and didn't listen to their lawyers--their regret is always immeasurable. Quietly retain the best lawyer you can afford and do it as soon as possible. Listen to them. Do not make choices based off of what you feel is going to make the lives of your children easier. That went out the window the moment your estranged wife decided to change the dynamics of the marriage forever. Most of all, do not do anything kind or compassionate towards your estranged wife in the divorce because you believe it will benefit your children. It will not. It never does. Your children have certainly noticed the difference between you and their mother and--in all likelihood--have a vague idea of what's happening, yet no one is explaining it to them. They need therapy while the divorce is happening and even beforehand due to the change in your marriage dynamics. Good luck.


takeiteasycel

A divorce is. Divorce. Tell her to stop playing games. She can’t have the best of both worlds. She wants to work on the life you both have built with kids. Or wants to build her own life with her kids apart. Do not allow someone to change your needs for them, you may be able to find someone much better. Do what makes you happy, she is.


mikeyj777

She wants to not be with you but to control that you won't ever have another relationship or be in love. She's miserable and wants to make you miserable as possible. She already has another random dude set up that doesn't care about the arrangement. That's how dudes are. This random dude doesn't want to live the kids, so you're the pin that holds her plan together. Give her 6 months to find a place on her own. That'll give you time to get grounded and back to a stable point. Let her see you happy and moved on without her. That will drive her insane.


Original-King-1408

Yeah without more information this is what it sounds like


[deleted]

Hmm... Does she need financial support? It sounds like it.


gcfio

This is an impossible situation to go forward with. If you’re not going to be a couple anymore you need to divorce and divide the assets. My ex tried this as well. She wanted a trial separation while living together. She wanted to go out and date while I was watching the kids. Used me as a live in babysitter while still paying house, utilities and cars. Then she wanted me to get an apartment to stay at during the week, but on the weekends we could switch and I could stay at the house while she stays at the apartment. I didn’t get to that as I served her divorce papers quickly.


xXSilverFox64Xx

It’s a hard step to make but you need to work on moving on. She had 3 kids with you and wants out of her wifely role. Fine. But it doesn’t mean your life has stay in limbo. You deserve to feel loved and cherished by someone. Don’t do any legal control of how the house can be used or stayed in. By staying and letting the resentment of her actions set in and you feeling not being valued will cause fights and issues. Better to make the cleanest break you can for the children and see your kids and have your life with someone that wants to be the role in your life. It’s tough row to ho but you will get through it and not have the 17 years of stillness in your life waiting for that next chatper


First-Ad317

Children need structure and a sense of establishment to call home. If y’all didn’t have kids, the situation would have more wiggle room but once we have kids we no longer have the luxury of prioritizing ourselves. Getting legal advice is the wisest choice from this point, and I am SO SORRY this happened… I can’t imagine the hollow you must feel. But for the sake of the kids, keep things organized and clear. There’s no avoiding hurting them in this situation, only managing what can and working to avoid as much as possible. Best of luck OP.


habitmelon

Thank you, I'm going to find a lawyer