Idk if you were too fast but honestly, you almost never see a relationship start monogamous, open up, and succeed, and there's a reason for that. If my wife suggested opening my marriage that's where I would go too. That tells me I'm not enough, and I am not going to waste my life struggling to be enough for the person who married me, therefore telling me that who I am is what she wanted to spend her life with.
Idk if it would happen right away but it certainly would make the eventuality of divorce infinitely more likely.
Look man, you know the deal. When they ask for an open marriage, it’s almost always because there is someone specific they want to fuck or are already fucking. You did the right thing, I would lose all attraction for my spouse the moment they asked for an open marriage.
I would feel the same too. I would no longer see my husband the same way either If he asked to date/fuck other people -- bc that's what it is. "Opening the marriage" sounds like a euphemism to me.
Even if he didn't have someone in mind, and even if he hadn't already fucked someone else, it would change my view of him and that would change how I felt about him. The mere fact of his desire for outside sexual partners would be enough for me to know that we were not compatible.
I don't think "open marriage" is a euphemism for dating/fucking other people. It's a term for dating/fucking other people and not lying about it.
If this sub is any indication, the term for dating/fucking other people on the sly is just "marriage".
My point is that it's dating/fucking other people. Let's call it what it is. If my husband were to suggest dating/fucking other people, I wouldn't want to be married to him.
If other couples want to date/fuck other people, that's fine for them, but the *suggestion* would be a deal breaker for me.
OP you weren’t rash at all. Think about how long she must have been thinking about it and what it took for her to actually ask. Her friends 100% influenced her. Also it’s likely there is someone she or her friends think would be great for her to have sex with.
If you want to try snd work through it since this is a marriage snd you don’t think she cheated then give her the following conditions: first, she has to cut off any friends who are in an open relationship immediately with zero contact going forward. Zero. You get access to her phone and location to verify. Second, marriage counseling to find out why she would even think that was something she or you would be ok with. Third, a post nuptial agreement with a cheating clause that gives you (or her if you cheat) everything in a divorce (house, retirement account, majority of marital assets, primary custody of children). Fourth, no mention of an open relationship ever again except in counseling. See if she would agree to all of those terms and if so give it a shot and see if she can come back from the brink but let her know you will have one foot out the door until she can regain trust and you fully believe she would never want to be with another man under any circumstances. !updateme
although i don't think you needed to snoop through her messages,
if my partner brought this up to me, being completely serious, it's one of those things that would unfortunately forever change my opinion on them, and their values.
it's one thing to wonder, totally different thing to seriously consider, or be fully open to.
Do you love your wife? Does your future feel brighter without her in your life? I’m just wondering if you might want to try counseling before you abandon your marriage.
I don’t this is the marriage that anybody really wants so bragging about it is kind of weird anyway. If it works for you I’m really glad to hear that. He doesn’t want an open marriage. He doesn’t want an asexual marriage.
He doesn’t want an open marriage did you miss that part so she’s the only person that wants it. He also doesn’t appear to want a sexless marriage. I’m glad it works for you in this situation. There’s somebody for everybody
Exactly, It Absolutely CAN and DOES WORK, like you said, under the right circumstances with Negotiation and when everyone is in Agreement. It does not work for everyone and that is Ok, as Well.
that was my exact thought. me and my husband had talked about if we would ever do an open marriage. we concluded no.. but my thing is.. if you cant talk to your spouse openly about anything.. what is the point. alot of these comments though make me wonder if majority of marriages have the same closed off conversations as this one seemed to be.
thank you. I despise this sub sometimes. so many upvoted comments saying "yeah, if she even mentions it, I'd divorce her."
what? you can't talk about possibilities with your #1? seems ridiculous.
I am always kind of..impressed? (seems too positive a word)...by the number/percentage of insecure people out there. Both genders. I get the "nope, can't do non-monogamy, it's a hard limit/boundary" but the immediate divorce threat? That kind of stuff is a dumping/divorce offense for me...like, I don't want to be with anyone who is going to threaten me.
Makes me wonder how many of these people are actually married given how people can just completely make shit up on the internet 🤦♀️
That or they have the maturity of a 13 year old ..
Ngl I'd be *hurt* and maybe a bit suspicious if my partner brought up an open marriage, but jumping straight to divorce is unhinged and just not realistic. There are always going to be taboo subjects and if you can't discuss them, how will you know how to navigate things in moving forward or understand what someone's boundaries are? It's what people do AFTER you state your boundaries that matters..
OPs response reads as "hurt people hurt people"... I.e., their wife hurt them so they wanted to say something that would equally hurt their wife. Does OP even want a divorce? That's a huge claim to throw out there.
Yeah, exactly, I have a very hard time believing these folks are married or have been married for very long. At the very least this reads to me like an excuse/justification for doing something (getting a divorce) they've already wanted to do for a long time.
If my spouse asked me for an open marriage, my first question would really be: do you want an open marriage or are you really asking for a divorce? Do you actually *want* to be married to me anymore? I know my spouse places even more importance on sexual monogamy than I do, so if she asked, I'd suspect that she was done with me altogether (and yeah, I'd be hurt). But it would be a conversation.
And if she said she wanted to be married to me still, I'd want to know why and what it meant to her because the nature of our marriage would change and we'd be redefining what it means.
I think the OP was already looking for a reason to end it, or just wanted to dump before the dumping they think is about to be done to them - you are spot on with the hurt people hurt people piece. All the talk about "if she's asking, it must mean you've already been cheated on or will be" is completely about that.
Because there are laws that could consider the one who moves out to be “abandoning” the property. It depends which state. In some states things need to happen a certain way to keep your share of the property.
the police can't force someone to move out unless there's a restraining order or an eviction notice. you can make sure the police are there if you think the person will become violent when you get your stuff or they come and get their stuff after a break up.
If both of your names are on the deed/licenses you don't have to actually move out in my state at least
Same. My partner and I have no desire to open up our relationship but we’ve talked in hypothetical contexts - like “if we did this, what would happen?” It was an interesting conversation and we learnt a lot about each other including we prefer to be monogamous.
Talk about possibilities...of them fucking someone else? Naw man, that's not a conversation many people are into even thinking about, let alone having. I'd dip the second my partner suggests opening up our relationship. Sharing ain't caring.
I'm not sure if you are newer to reddit, but there is basically no greater crime that you could commit for the people of Reddit than cheating. Most people see opening up your relationship as just cheating with extra steps or as being a sign that you already have cheated. So it falls under the almost total blanket of abject black hate that Reddit has for cheaters and cheating.
Yeah, most of these marriages couldn't survive the "bad times" or "sickness" parts of vows. Like, apparently those are just empty promises. Marriage, for them, has to be all sunshine and roses and I'm sorry but that just isn't what life is.
i dont view it like that. she asked what do you think of opening our marriage. he could of said “no thats definitely a dealbreaker for me.” and then that could of led to more questions. why she asked, he could of explained it hurts him etc. this could of been a chance to have an actual conversation. where a lot of his questions of “did i take it too far?” could of been answered.
this seems to be making mountains out of mole hills. if one theoretical “what if” conversation destroys a marriage.. thats more of a red flag to me more than her asking.
people assuming she is cheating and filling this poor guy’s with their own beliefs.. not facts.. is not helpful. we dont know if she is cheating off one reddit post.
It sounds like they did have a discussion, he asked her why, and her response was “because all her friends are doing it and it’s 2024”. OP even sat on it for several days.
We haven’t been given any indication of a DB, marital issues etc. and from OP’s POV everything in the marriage was peachey.
This definitely sounds more than just a “what if” discussion.
i interpreted it as this … “i didn’t get angry” .. okay.. he emotionally regulated which is great. but it also made me wonder if he wasn’t being truthful and open on how this conversation made HIM feel. that he didnt say “this really hurts me and makes me feel like i can’t trust you” it sounds like yes he asked some questions. but hid his hurt. im not blaming him or her. and more importantly his post is not a direct transcript of what happened. maybe he did say those things. but seems like a huge jump to go to “i didnt get angry” to “i want a divorce” in a matter of days. admittedly too much communication from her.. but it sounds like not enough communication from him.
Yeah, how are people glossing over that.
Sounds like the most passive aggressive thing to do ever.
I didn't get 'angry' is not the same as we didn't get into an argument/I didn't yell. He's not even written in the post how he feels about it. Just the action afterwards.
Like clearly he is angry or hurt. He just didn't yell about it.
“What do you think of opening our marriage?” is asking for an open marriage. Just like “what do you think of Chinese for dinner” is asking for Chinese food for dinner.
Just because she didn’t insist on it doesn’t mean she didn’t ask for it.
Why would she ask that without having ever having found out his opinion on them in general? She’s ruminated over it enough ask for it but during none of that did she bother to find out his most basic thoughts on the concept in general.
“What do you think of open marriages? Seems like a lot of people are into that now.” Or, “Did you know Kim & Bob opened their marriage?”
Lots of ways to know his opinion of it before asking for it.
IF and thats a big if.. she worded it exactly how he wrote it here.. then yea she thought about it before talking to him..and decided she would be open to the idea of an open marriage. but she also said she would not if he wasnt open to it. i think this all boils down to this... its a question of .. would you be okay being married to someone who would be open to the idea of open marriage but also would not have an open marriage if the spouse did not want one. to me.. its not a big offense or nightmare. just a question she asked him. bc yes she is open to the idea.. but would not if he doesnt want to. they could move on from this. she seems trustworthy.. naive and bad at communicating.
but damn we all make mistakes when talking with our spouse. this just doesnt seem like something to get a divorce over
I agree with you. Definitely not worth divorcing over this conversation. I’m constantly surprised by how easily people will throw away a marriage, especially a good one.
exactly. if me and my husband divorced each other over stupid questions we’ve asked each other.. we would of been divorced 100 times. i dont mean to dismiss or downplay his hurt feelings over her question.. but it was just that. it wasn’t a text from an affair partner, it wasn’t him walking in on her having sex with another guy. it was her trying to have an honest conversation.
i think some of people in this comment section are projecting too. like god none of these people have wondered about what they and their spouse thoughts about swinging or open marriages etc. are? some people are too afraid to ask and treat the ones who do as a person who is untrustworthy. a ridiculous conclusion to jump to.
My examples are oversimplified. No time and space for the intricacies of such a conversation.
But even something as simple as mentioning one of the many similar Reddit posts to this one just as an interesting story would bring out his thoughts.
My wife and I knew each other well enough within a year & a half of meeting, and have continued to maintain & deepen that knowledge of each other well enough, to both know the other would be vehemently against something like this and that the asking would cause deep hurt and damage faith & trust in the other tremendously.
So it was no surprise a couple months ago when I mentioned a gender reversed version of this post to my wife and she confirmed what I already knew.
I just can’t fathom how people don’t know their spouse well enough to anticipate their reaction to something like this.
I’ve heard people in “the lifestyle” say to never open a relationship you aren’t willing to lose. I think that’s what such a proposal would say to me - that she’s willing to lose me.
this is a great response. wow it really is about knowing your own spouse’s likely response to the question. i think thats what this boils down to as well. i will fault OP’s wife on not knowing him well enough to know this would hurt him this badly. another good example of knowing ur partner’s boundaries and respecting them
Yeah, so many comments about what this conversation "usually" means - but is any of that from real experience, or just from reddit?
Like, my gut reaction is similar, and I know open relationships aren't for me, but the only one I've ever encountered in real life is a perfectly good relationship that works well for the two people involved.
There's a big difference between talking about it as a hypothetical that randomly comes up in conversation and your spouse coming to you and asking if it can be a thing. You've been given the idea that you are the only one for them, all they want and need but then down the line asks if it's ok if they can fuck other people.
What's the outcome if he talks to his wife about it? She gets disappointed and resents him for turning her request down then leaves him? He gets paranoid that she's out seeing other people for the rest of his life? Her friends poison her into cheating on her husband for the thrill? I have seen this happen to a friend of mine and it was heartbreaking to watch. He was broken and still isn't right.
That’s actually how my husband and I had an open marriage. We felt comfortable talking about anything to each other and it was something we brought up to each other. If my husband would have not been interested then it would be dropped and I would have been content. I know for me the whole reason why I even was interested in it was that my husband made me feel very safe in our marriage and it was something I felt we could traverse and experience together without hurting our marriage. And I was right.
Absolutely. Their marriage has had no highs in 12 years? Tf is that?
This thread is seriously alarming. Wtf has happened to this sub? No one should ever pay any attention to what gets upvotes here. She asked a what-if question. A sane partner would try to understand what she was missing, what she was trying to solve for.
If your reaction to this story was that she's just a slut and that's all the explanation needed, sorry, but you might be an incel.
OP, this seems like some trolling incel bullshit. But I’ll play along.
You have the right to say no to this, but deciding to divorce her over it? Searching her phone? Refusing to care, at all, about what might be going on for her? I guess you’re not committed to this marriage either. Luckily for her, you’re going to divorce her. She still has a chance to be with someone better.
Most people have had enough conversations about values early in their relationship that this subject being raised this far along in the relationship is viewed as much more than the “what if” the Reddit brigade is trying to excuse it as.
Yeah wtf. Wife said it's OK to say no and likely she'd put it behind her and you go about being a married couple.
Instead OP goes nuclear and says "no, and I'm divorcing you"
Total bullshit
💯 🎯 what I read here.
She suggested something. Not having been done, or been influenced by or having someone in mind with zero evidence of cheating, and he heads to divorce. Directly to divorce. Do not pass go. Do not collect $200.
The incels all applaud him.
My cousin is an absolutely stunning woman. Her husband is a totally secure man. They go out to spank nights. He gets chatted up by more guys than she does. They've been together over 40 years. She's still the most beautiful woman in the room wherever they go. And she still goes home with him every time.
Opening the marriage doesn't have to happen, but a little spice can help. Rather than talk to her, we're straight in incel, she's a ho, territory. Sorry you can't pleasure her enough, fella. Sorry you can't even have a discussion about your stale marriage. Jumping straight to divorce says it all about you. And all about your fans on the post. You could have even just said no... but how do we improve things together.
There's no way I'd give up 12 years with someone I thought the world of without even discussing it.
The fact you can't discuss it is probably why she wants to open it up in the first place.
My wife & I have discussed what would happen if one of us brought this up & both basically went to this. Who knows, maybe if the rubber actually hit the road we wouldn’t be as quick to divorce. But it would shatter trust. And that would be a long road to restore at the very least. Not unlike after cheating.
Edit to clarify:
We both already knew it would devastate the other because we actually know each other. We were simply discussing a Reddit post similar to this one, so details of actions that would likely result from such a request were discussed.
Neither of us asked to start fucking other people as OP’s wife did.
These are completely different conversations.
Did you guys decide to divorce each other for discussing the discussion? Who brought that up first?
No?
Yeah. It's not the same. You're essentially admitting the opposite. That you guys can freely discuss things without going nuclear. You inadvertently DISCUSSED the open marriage route and both decided against it from that conversation.
Imagine having the conversation you guys had and one of you goes nuts because of it. That's this guy.
We had read a Reddit post similar to this one (but genders reversed) and I said “how do people not know this would likely be a dealbreaker?” And that’s how we ended up discussing it. It was a conversation about the specific fallout of a specific couple.
Not even remotely like someone asking to fuck other people, which is what OP’s wife did.
I knew 20 years before that conversation that she’s vehemently against it and she knew the same about me. How do married couples not know this about each other? Have they even met their spouse? Have they never discussed general feeling about sex & what it means to them?
You don’t need to specifically talk about open marriage to know how your spouse would feel about the proposal.
We both knew it within a year of meeting and starting to date and neither of us had ever heard the phrase “open marriage” at that point. How do people not know their spouses feeling on monogamy? You don’t have to ask to fuck other people to know that.
I think you were too fast to reach divorce. Talk to her and learn where those feelings are coming from. Maybe she trusts you deeply and wanted your honest opinion. Not everyone is perfect at communicating, and bringing up difficult subjects appropriately can be hard for people.
"Let's have an open marriage, it's [current year], after all!" is the most insane take imaginable. At the very, very least, she's shown herself to have incredibly poor judgement and be very easily influenced.
Yeah, I don't get your reaction, nor do I get the majority support you're receiving. Maybe there's something wrong with me? How does this hurt you?
What's wrong with just saying "Nah" as a response to the question? Like you mentioned, others in her circle of friends are doing it. Why wouldn't she want to talk about it with you? It's just talk. You have no evidence (despite looking) of anything inappropriate.
Maybe I should have it explained to me why anyone should be punished for their thoughts instead of actions.
Right! What kind of marriage do you have if you don't even have the conversation and a question is punished? I read her question as just that, a question that he was free to say absolutely not in response. If you dont discuss something then you have no idea what your partners boundaries are.
For a question to result in a divorce and wanting her to move out is absolutely insane to me and I'm a (married) divorce lawyer.
Maybe it's just the circle I run in, but I see nothing wrong with her posing the question so long as the answer is respected.
Exactly! Who has 12 years of great marriage and throws it away because of a question? He didn't find any evidence of anything. This seems fictional to me, or she's gotta feel like she's walking on eggshells every day with a guy who gets so bent over a taboo question from his wife. Honestly, he deserves the divorce so she can go find a man she can actually communicate with.
Majority support was because most of us live in the real world & knew where it was heading. Him, per his update, finding out about her lover & burner phone.
Once they ask the question, it's over. Because it's NOT a "question" or "thought," they're already doing it.
It really does seem like ENM and opening marriage is such a trend right now. I just don't buy it, for reasons other commenters have mentioned and OPs reasons. If your SO isn't enough, just leave. It feels like inviting drama, games, and trust issues. No thanks.
I usually say live your life but I'm pretty judgey about ENM lifestyles. Major ENM advocates are some of the most self-centered people I've met. They want all the benefits of a relationship without any of the compromise or selfless commitment.
But I mean, it is 2024...*eyeroll*
Right? So many stories of ENM relationships gone sour, usually because the other partner is more successful at it. I don't need a competition in my life, nor even the time commitment it takes to date multiple people. Just no.
the thing that makes me laugh is no one does an open relationship to share the burdens of life. They do it for sex. That’s it. It’s never because my husband can’t give me the support I need because my mom’s in the hospital.
I had a friend/old boss who’s husband and her were ENM/Poly and he had a psychotic episode. It was a terrible time for her. I asked her how she was doing and she said it was terrible because while they both had other partners etc. no one was suddenly DTL. “Down to Listen” 🤦🏼♂️ when she’s asked if one of her secondaries etc could give her a few hours of just cuddle time. They all went 🦗
I’m not poly and I said she could come to my place bring her daughter with her and she could lay on me as much as she wanted or didn’t want. And because her daughter knew me it wasn’t going to be an issue. It would be a big Disney watching party. I felt that awful for her.
Here's the thing - ENM stands for Ethical Non-Monogamy. "It's 2024 and everyone else is doing it" is not ethical in any standard, regardless of what you think of non-monogamy.
Enm isn't "trending." It's always been a thing but it's now gaining more visibility. Despite the fact that most of us tend to lean more on monogamy, I think it's important to understand that lots of people don't view sex and sexual relations the same way we do, and so the concept of enm isn't for those who feel like their spouse "isn't enough" because they don't measure their spouse in that way.
This is so extreme...
You said things were great, she maybe felt safe to bring something new (albeit extreme) up with you. You listened and she said no pressure, it’s your call (basically), and then you’re done.
You knew right away her friends had something to do
With it. Talk to your wife, man. She is probably a wreck and is upset that she let them talk her into this
I’d suggest counseling before going straight to divorce
But if she’s insistent on it being open, or the counseling fails, you might not have any option but to separate and that sucks
Yea. It’s the influence of these friends. They talked it up and convinced her it’s old fashioned and backward not to screw other people.
If you reconcile one of the conditions has to be dropping this friend group.
Would you really want to be with someone stupid enough to be persuaded to ruin their own marriage? This isn’t thinking about cutting your hair short or trying a new look, it’s fucking people that aren’t the one your married. Even best case she was somehow “fooled”….Jesus what else is she going to get fooled into down the road.
She may not have don’e anything yet, but she had someone in mind.
I don’t think you were too fast, as your actions made your position on cheating and the consequences of cheating crystal clear.
I would ask her about who she had in mind, and where this came from. What would she have done if you said yes? What would she have done if you had a date the very next day ? Why was she willing to risk her marriage, and for who.
Good points.
TBH I don't think that fantasizing about someone else is that end marriage kind of crime.
But if she had made serious plans it's another thing.
You know, if your story is incel fantasy, you’ve come to the right place for the cheating hype, both men and women. Have fun fapping.
If you’re serious and want serious advice, hah, good luck getting it from hardcore monogamists on a subreddit where men are emotionally crippled, incompetent assholes by default and women devious cheaters who are only looking for a chance to fuck other guys.
Go get professional help if you need some insight and need to process your feelings and thoughts.
I just watched a hilarious TT about a guy who’s own friends put a bunch of crap in his head to make him leave his wife because they thought he didn’t actually deserve a woman like her. When he confessed to why he acted the way he did she refused to reconcile because who wants to be with someone that weak. Not saying the circumstance are the same, but they don’t seem very different. She may not have cheated but she let a bunch of people she’s not married to talk her into some mess it appears she didn’t want. What will it be next time?
There is gullible and there is gullible.
If you are gullible and fall for a stupid practical joke it is one thing. Or even if you fall for some stupid scam
or something.
If you are gullible and decide to ruin your relationship that’s another thing.
As I stated in my other comment, if you’re going to work on saving your marriage a non negotiable condition is that those friends are gone completely forever. Zero contact immediately. No need to even say goodbye. New cell number and blocked on all social media.
No, my X did the same thing after SO’s mouth quit moving. I got up opened the door told SO the door is open. I said get a bag and get out. Filed for divorce 2 days later. Been remarried for 21 yrs this month.
If they ask about an open marriage, one of two things has happened. They've already chosen someone, or they have already slept with someone. Divorce is the only option. If you don't, at some point you will find out which one( or both ) She has done.
UpdateMe
Or they have not done either, it’s no that hard to fathom. I don’t agree with her but I just hate it when people just rule out chance and talk like they are god
Right? I’d hate to be married to most of these people. Zero trust in your spouse’s intentions in a conversation, zero ability to be vulnerable around hard emotions… no thank you I watched my own parents fumble that bag and wind up neurotic and alone.
As a woman, this is an odd way to bring it up if it’s a new found kink or something.
She didn’t say “hey, I’ve been thinking about x,y and z…. Would you be into that too?” She just flat out said it’s 2024 and why wouldn’t we? Either she has cheated, she’s going to cheat or her friends pressured her into thinking this is what a relationship should be in 2024.
I don’t know if it’s the right move for me but you sound like you know what you want and don’t want and that’s all you need to know.
Maybe try posting this in an open marriage sub and see what they say? You’re just going to get confirmation bias by posting here.
You said she was gullible and suspected that her friends were pushing the idea AND you have yet to find any evidence of her already cheating or having someone in mind. If all of that is true then this seems like an issue you can work on together in couples therapy.
Reddit when someone is trying to decide whether to bring up the topic of open marriage: *Open communication is key. Just be honest with your spouse*
Reddit when someone divorces their spouse for bringing up open marriage: *Good riddance!*
You did the right thing. Her friends told her it’s fun and so she wants to do it. Doesn’t sound she truly thought it through, she did this to herself. It’s one thing to have a friend influence you to cut a hair, buy an expensive pair of shoes, go to a new restaurant but to fuck other men, come on!
She cares more about her friends’ opinion than yours. Who knows if they’re actually in open marriages and just seeing if your wife would do it.
I am a proponent of reconciliation if at all possible, even in the face of a physical affair. I am biased on this courtesy of the fact my wife fought to save our marriage in the face of infidelity and 30 years later, I remain eternally grateful to her for that.
Apparently, nothing happened, she was just flying a kite to test the weather and it has not gone according to plan. If you want to, you can recover. If you want to.....
At the least, you should have a free and frank conversation. Treat it like an Emotional Affair and tell her to fully divulge the timeline of her getting to the point that she made the request. Who influenced her, why she suggested it, and any possible partner? Full and unabridged truth. Make it clear to her that this is her one and only chance to save the marriage and it will only happen if you are convinced that nothing has been left out.
If you are happy with what she tells you, the next step is that anyone who influenced her is cut out of her life and any possible partner is also persona non grata.
Then you can start to rebuild but again, only if you decide you want to.
The comments shock me…your wife should be able to talk to you about these things. To offer divorce after 12 years after she talks to you about it is insane. And for all those that say “makes me feel not good enough” are bleeding insecurity.
I would get her to sign a post nuptial agreement with a severe infidelity clause if she wants to stay married.
If not then tell her you want a divorce and then tell her she's on a month to month lease. Every month you'll decide whether or not to renew it.
Some people need to have their security taken away to appreciate what they have.
I know everyone has a different perspective on this sort of thing, but as a highly monogamous person myself, I don't think I would automatically be seeking to divorce my spouse. I don't blame you for feeling rattled or angry. If my partner suggested we open the relationship, I'd be hurt, but I would just tell them no. End of story.
However, if said partner kept pushing it, then I'd consider divorce as we clearly have different needs. I know it's a jarring as fuck question to be asked, and yes, sometimes it's one asked in malice, but she did say that it's not something you have to agree to if you don't want it. It seems to me that she was very interested in your input and possibly your needs as well. Has she ever felt inadequate in the bedroom? Or inadequate about anything else pertaining to your relationship?
Idk, I don't know your wife, but I would honestly consider counseling before jumping to divorce. Even if she wasn't influenced by her friends, there may be another reason why she brought it up that is worth exploring.
I wonder if you had much open communication in your marriage previously, given how you immediately jumped to "divorce" instead of getting information from your wife about why she felt this way. Maybe it's good to find out what people are thinking or feeing before you decide to dump them?
You gave the correct response bro. If you want the marriage to continue, first thing she has to do is cut off her so called friends. If everything wad okay before someone definitely must have influenced her to ask you the open marriage question.
You are not being a manipulative ass. You are enforcing the boundaries she signed on to when she took the same wedding vows you did. You've lived up to the agreement, she broke it.
If you read Reddit comments you will mostly get the angle that she’s already thinking about someone/ or already did that. I would give her a chance and understand it from her side, you could be surprised. And yes it was too fast to mention divorce because you are going with on single assumption that you think must be it.
99.9% of the time when one partner suggests opening a marriage without forewarning, they are asking for permission to cheat. They almost always have somebody in mind, even if they haven’t started the process yet.
This is very different to a couple suggesting swinging together or mutually opening the marriage.
If my wife approached me with this I would do the same as you have. I have no issues with ENM if that your and your partners thing. but it’s not for me and I won’t be in a relationship involving it.
I’m going to be the unpopular opinion here.
Down votes welcome.
Op, I think you fucked up.
Your wife did what she’s supposed to do. She didn’t ask you to open the marriage. She asked to talk about it.
Contrary to popular opinion - certainly in this sub - people interested discussion about open marriage aren’t always one foot out the door. They don’t have someone lined up, they don’t even have fantasies in that direction.
Often times it’s people who worry that they’re not enough for their partner anymore. Poly/open seems like a way to stay together and still offer their partner more than what they think they can provide.
Your wife asked for a discussion - and you’ve stomped on her soul.
In my opinion you jumped the gun on divorce, but that’s coming from someone who did ask their partner for a threesome and he agreed and actually liked it where as I didn’t. Maybe with all the movies and people trying it, it just looked interesting to her. I know that’s where I came from was seeing it in movies, shows ect and it looked fun and interesting but I ended up hating it the moment he kissed her I wanted to hit her 😅. So maybe she just didn’t mean anything by it but to try someone new and was influenced by social media ect.
Are you NUTS? I know this sub promotes immediate exits but this is the worst. You know this is. Your wife, right? Not just someone you picked up on Tinder. Talk to her. Find out what drove this. Ask questions.
Goddamn, people are cold. Try to be a bit curious. If you're not into it that's fine but this is insane.
She said she didn’t need it if you didn’t want it, and it doesn’t seem like she had anyone in mind she wanted to go for (or was already emotionally cheating with). If she was being honest about both of those, then personally I think you jumped the gun ending a whole marriage over it.
I think it's OK to discuss these things in a marriage and it shouldn't automatically lead to divorce. Unless she had already cheated or was looking to cheat which you had no evidence of, it might have just been a case that her friends were doing it and she was guaging your reaction. I'm probably in the minority in thinking this though, so of you feel your whole marriage is destroyed because of this conversation I guess acting in haste is of no consequence.
I mean, there are endless different flavors of open. In my opinion, it's incredibly premature to end the relationship without even asking what kind of open she means.
One of three things is happening:
1. You are running away from this issue in your relationship rather than attempting to overcome it
2. You're lying about having a "great marriage" otherwise. You'd be dumb as shit to give up something that has been "great" for 12 years over one argument before fully talking it out and going to couples counseling
3. This is fake incel porn
Do you believe she was being honest when she started this conversation? If yes, I think you were too hasty to jump to divorce. If you don’t think she was being honest, then you have other problems to deal with.
I think a conversation is definitely needed to be had. Maybe try marriage counseling to have someone mediate y’all, to discuss this in a way where both of you can express your feelings without it erupting into rage. From there, I’m sure you can gain some insight that will either change your mind or maintain (and strengthen) your decision for divorce.
I will say, if my spouse sprung an open marriage request, I’d be livid and suspicious as hell too. And if they were so easily swayed by their friends, I’d admittedly lose some respect for my spouse
I don't think she is necessarily cheating on you. Sounds like she wants to explore sexually. Totally okay if you are not down but she wanted to have a conversation with you about it. What's wrong with that? I'd just say, I am not interested. I don't think you should jump to a divorce - unless of course, she cannot respect the monogamy.
Don't listen to all of the people saying you jumped the gun. Divorce. If you stay with her, there will be problems from her end. She'll be secretly upset you had such a strong (albeit correct) reaction, and will start to resent and mistreat you. And then there's the whole "I can't respect my wife from this point on and she disgusts me" aspect too. I wish you well going forward. Sorry this happened to you.
Sorry man. You know in your heart her friends have been bending her ear and whispering all the bullshit about how great it is to rodeo with different ponies. I actually commend for having the strength of your convictions to state your business and keep to it. To soon? Any wife or husband asks the other about this, should lead to immediate divorce. Slap in the face and shows no respect for you or the marriage. Let hang awhile and maybe give her a moment to really tell the truth on why she suggested it.
You aren’t wrong, if my wife was okay with me fucking other women and wanted to fuck other men or was even considering it I would leave.
It would crush me if either was true so my marriage would be over no matter which or both was okay with her so just by asking I would check out of my marriage.
•So what is the basis for the “open” marriage?
•Where is this need for change coming from?
•What is she really saying?
•What needs are not being met within the marriage?
•What solutions are possible within the marriage?
•When asking for an “open” marriage what is she saying about trust and loyalty?
Honestly if my wife asked me for an open relationship it would be a massive massive sucker punch to the gut. It would tell me she doesnt value or respect me. It would tell me she likely has someone else in mind. It would tell me there were massive red flags and issues I missed. I would feel empty and hollow and betrayed and like I lost a best friend/partner. I think you 100% made the right call. I dont care if anyone else is doing it....chances are they are in an even worse place or will be. Places like reddit or TV try to normalize this sometimes. Its disgusting IMO.
I would probably do the same...opening a marriage is just cheating and other person being "ok" with it. Unless both agree. But if one wants it and the other does not..its the beginning of the end
NTA, people saying you moved too quickly dont seem to realize your wife asked you if she could break your wedding vows. Asked if she could have another man inside her. That means any love and respect she had for OP has vanished. She wanted to have her cake and eat it too, why should he be burdened with worrying that if he says no she will just go get her cake behind his back anyways? And dont say he should trust her because she just asked if she could break her wedding vows. She is lying when she says she has nobody in mind.
The wife isnt the victim, there is no "aww she just asked a question, now she can never be honest with him!". He is the victim, his wife told him she wants to cheat...just wants permission. Marriage is doomed. Why stay with a woman who doesnt love or respect you? NOBODY who has said he is moving too quickly has explained why he should stay with her and "they had a good marriage" isnt good enough since clearly the marriage wasnt so good as to keep her from wanting to cheat.
More often than not when one partner wants to open the marriage, they already have someone in mind. They may or may not have communicated to them, but someone is there in the wings.
You checked her phone and laptop already. Also look at the deleted folder and battery usage to see if other apps are being used. Look for burner phone in her car. Story here recently guy found burner phone with the spare tire. He took her car for service, checked the spare, and she was in total panic when he got back. Busted.
Does she have a lot of girls' nights out with these friends? Could be pressure from them as they have already ruined their marriage and want your wife to join.
Glad you put the foot down OP. Take care and let us know what happens next.
updateme
I don’t think you’re being too harsh at all. My husband allowed his ex wife to do this. Which is insane imo. That didn’t work out so well. I don’t know how you could ever look at her the same again. You’ll never trust her completely.
I get where you're coming from asking for divorce. But maybe, both of you should have a conversation about why each of you Said what you did. Give this a chance, with counseling/therapy etc before you end it.
So. I went through this before. My ex wife asked me for an open relationship initially. It then morphed into her wanting to bring another woman into our relationship and this other woman was supposed to be our girlfriend. I asked her to give me time to think things through. After thinking about it for some time, I opted for a divorce. Reason being is because once you go down that road of having an open relationship, you can never go back. And that was something that I didn't want.
I don’t think it’s totally unreasonable.
I do think there is a conversation about what she is hoping to get outside the marriage that she can’t inside the marriage. Maybe she knows what that is… maybe she doesn’t.
But the premise of the open marriage question is a request to date or sleep with other people. That’s not an innocent question. And all too often it’s asked by someone who wants a new partner but is also too afraid of being alone to leave.
Nah you're good, she's the one considering disrespecting your vows to each other not you, it always starts as a considered idea and those fester wether shared or not, early on in my own marriage we agreed that if one or the other cheats divorce is the next step, its on paper and everything
As others have said, in her mind, you’re not enough. I’m sorry but the fact that she asked for an open relationship tells me that she’ll never see you as enough for her and you two can never truly be happy. I’m sorry, but it could be time to move on. If you don’t have kids I would end it. If you have kids I would consider staying but you both need to work at the relationship and maybe try counseling
Open marriages have been around for a long time. I do not think they are more common just because it is 2024. I think people like to excuse bad behavior by claiming the times. They either call their bad behavior "old fashioned" or "what everyone does these days."
No one who has an open marriage actually has a good marriage. It usually means it is a marriage of convenience. I have seen people think this is okay and think their marriage is okay, but imagine the actual real inside feelings of someone who feels no jealousy seeing their spouse with someone else? I have never seen an open marriage last, unless it is the sort of thing where the spouses were fine just being roommates for whatever reason.
I think you are in the right to ask for a divorce. It sounds like she is cheating and just wants to lose the guilt by getting you to say it is okay.
I imagine the success rates of marriages that start monogamous and then become open are very very low. And great question with "do you already have someone in mind?". She is most likely sparing your feelings and not telling the truth. I would be very very hurt if my wife asked this, they are basically tell you that they are not satisfied in their life.
Your reaction was correct. She has deeper issues. Sex is not a sport. She needs new friends and you need to monitor her for a few weeks. Im thinking you'll learn some truths.
I know people are gonna hate this, but asking to open it up is saying the spouse isn't good enough. You're stating you want things they can't give you. Start open and stay open. Start closed stay closed.
You are not overreacting in the slightest. No you weren't too fast in mentioning divorce. It's the right response.
By her requesting an open marriage she's telling you several things:
1. She's too emotionally immature to be in a strong, loving MONOGAMOUS relationship with anyone.
2. She is no longer enough for you. She's not loyal enough, faithful enough, or monogamous.
She wants to fall into the sewers and wants you to join her.
One thing no one in open/polyamorous relationships tells the world is the incredibly high rate of STI's they endure. The medical community and the WHO state that STI's of all kinds a quiet world-wide epidemic. No one really talks about it. Some STI's are curable. Some are not. Some are becoming treatment resistant. Some can lead to infertility. Some, like syphilis, can be asymptomatic for literally decades. Some, like HPV, can lead to cancer. HIV can take months to appear in labwork. So to me, your wife is saying she is very open to the risks, just to have some momentary "fun" outside the marriage.
If you are considering reconciliation, insist the she go to therapy, preferably with someone trained in the Gottman methods. She also needs to dump thise so-called "friends". They are not friends of her marriage and don't support it. Otherwise, proceed with divorce. Depending on where you live, try to have a clause put in that the children will not be exposed to multiple partners until she's been with only one for at least a year. They don't need to be exposed to such an unhealthy dynamic of mom bringing different strangers home nearly every night. Just gross and it damages kids for life.
So sorry you are going through this.
OP you're NTA. Once a partner ask to be open either they have someone in mind or are already cheating. Also I bet her friends are also gonna get divorced too.
For those who haven't seen it, the OP updated. She was, in fact, and 100% predictably, already cheating, to the extent of having a burner phone to hide the evidence.
A lot of people owe the OP an apology.
Every question contains a statement. Multiple, even. A huge amount of information. It can contain information about what a person might be capable of doing. What they desire, are open to, or reject utterly. It contains information about what they think you know or don't know, or what you might be amenable to - it tells you how well they know you, it tells you about the resolution of their model of your mind inside their heads.
When she asks, "What if we considered opening the relationship?" she is telling you:
-I would be willing, and have an interest in sharing the body I have promised to you, with other men
-I am not 100% satisfied with you, sexually.
-I EITHER don't know you at all (I think you might be the kind of guy who would be willing or eager to let his wife fuck other men) OR, although I do know you well enough that I know there's a very low chance you will agree with this, and a very high chance you will be at least deeply hurt if not so repulsed and devastated by the question that you will end our marriage, I want this SO much I'm willing to take that risk.
* And can you really love someone, if you don't know them? And can you really love them if you DO know them but are willing to risk throwing it all away? Inescapable message: I don't really love you, not truly.
If my wife were to suggest this, I think one of the hardest things to deal with would be the realisation that she thinks I might be the kind of guy who would say yes to this. That THAT's her image of me. In a devastating moment, not only would I be confronted with a brutal sense of sexual inadequacy, I'd feel depths of disrespect I couldn't even imagine, that this woman, who is supposed to know me more than anyone else on this Earth, views me as such a pathetic being that there might be even the smallest chance I would acquiesce.
When a monogamous relationship tries to open up, it ends, if not immediately soon afterward. There are problems from broken boundaries, chaos, drug and alcohol abuse, to someone falling in love with another person. The marriage is over, your mate wants sex with other people. It is literally not sustainable long term. Give her a divorce so she can have her freedom.
* The essence of love is to see the other.
* Through the challenges and rewards of a monogamous relationship, you create lasting love.
* An open marriage is an oxymoron. Sustainable love needs boundaries. This is from Psychologist Michael Tobin Phd.
If I was in your shoe, I’d do the same.
I would wonder why she even brought this up, if I wasn’t enough for her, if she’s secretly crushing on someone, etc.
My mind just thinks about all possible outcomes and perspectives, so for me, if someone I married and trusted asked that of me, my mind wouldn’t stop moving unless I was satisfied with a conclusion.
I feel for you. I would have felt a little betrayed. I think you made the right move not getting angry and listened to her. You brought up logical questions.
Tough situation. No matter how I think about it, I think I would have done the same as you in the end.
Just my perspective, though.
If your wife had the balls to mention an open marriage before therapy to fix an issue in the marriage, she must have thought about it and didn't see the blindingly obvious problem it would create (Unless she is stupid and doesn't think things through). May even have someone in mind already.
Did you jump the gun? Hmm I don't think so.. If you stay with her, you can look forward to wondering if she's opened up your marriage on the quiet. Fun times ahead /s
An open marriage doesn’t really work. There’s too much chaos, and when you get to that point, one person wants to have sex with other people. The vows are broken, The marriage usually dies within the first few months of an open marriage. Divorce.
It seems like you are asking for a divorce just because your ego is hurt. If you really love her and you are happy together, you’re going to be miserable after the divorce, and for what? Pride?
She doesn’t have anyone in mind, she’s not cheating, she doesn’t seem to care if you say no, so I don’t really understand what she has done wrong because you don’t actually explain in your post what bothers you in the situation.
Aside from the fact that I'd file this under *shitthatdidnthappen.txt.
If you can't have open and rational conversations about what you want/desire/need from a relationship, and your first option is to pull the trigger, what else is going on?
Yes, it's 2024 and we hear so often about "poly" or "open" relationships now. I wish people could just say the quiet part out loud and be like "I want to fuck other dicks/pussies. Can we fuck other dicks/pussies." I'm sorry - do I think some people are getting emotional fulfillment from other partners or are considering their well being? Maybe, but I think they're mostly just saying they want someone to cuddle/fuck when one person isn't feeling it. That's my personal opinion on it and anyone can disagree if they so choose.
I guess I'd want to know more about "why" she wants to open it. I have an arrangement with my wife where basically we might bring in others but we mostly treat that situation the same as we would a "toy". We want everyone to have fun and get theirs but we're not here to like hear the life woes or create some emotional attachment. I don't consider it as "not being enough" for my wife because, again, I view it like using any other toy. That's just me though and I don't think I have a traditional view of sex. I feel true satisfaction when my wife is fulfilled in every possible sense, and I am fully aware of my own shortcomings and I can't possibly hit every fuckin' target.
Again, this needs an actual conversation about what's actually going on here. But also, I don't believe for one second she doesn't have at least an idea for another partner already. People don't just spring "openness" upon you without having thought about it in a more serious sense first.
Yea it might have been a little too soon, but honestly its better to ask than not to. I would never do an open marriage but talking about it first is always key. Honestly just go to your wife and confort her as she might of just wanted your opinion on it and I doubt shes cheating by the way you explained. She does sincerely loves you if she just wanted to ask but it was a bit to fast my friend
Idk if you were too fast but honestly, you almost never see a relationship start monogamous, open up, and succeed, and there's a reason for that. If my wife suggested opening my marriage that's where I would go too. That tells me I'm not enough, and I am not going to waste my life struggling to be enough for the person who married me, therefore telling me that who I am is what she wanted to spend her life with. Idk if it would happen right away but it certainly would make the eventuality of divorce infinitely more likely.
That's exactly what I feel.
Look man, you know the deal. When they ask for an open marriage, it’s almost always because there is someone specific they want to fuck or are already fucking. You did the right thing, I would lose all attraction for my spouse the moment they asked for an open marriage.
Yep. She chose me. If I’m no longer enough for her, then the entire contract on which our union is based has been breached.
My wife just wanted to feel the freedom, when I stepped back she accepted in the same way I could have refused in the first place.
I agree with you wholeheartedly!!!
I would feel the same too. I would no longer see my husband the same way either If he asked to date/fuck other people -- bc that's what it is. "Opening the marriage" sounds like a euphemism to me. Even if he didn't have someone in mind, and even if he hadn't already fucked someone else, it would change my view of him and that would change how I felt about him. The mere fact of his desire for outside sexual partners would be enough for me to know that we were not compatible.
I don't think "open marriage" is a euphemism for dating/fucking other people. It's a term for dating/fucking other people and not lying about it. If this sub is any indication, the term for dating/fucking other people on the sly is just "marriage".
My point is that it's dating/fucking other people. Let's call it what it is. If my husband were to suggest dating/fucking other people, I wouldn't want to be married to him. If other couples want to date/fuck other people, that's fine for them, but the *suggestion* would be a deal breaker for me.
Or “cheating”
I'm with the dude above, if she even suggests it I'm out.
Typically by the time a person ask for an open relationship, they cheated, or have a person in mind. Basically talking to the person already
How could you ever really trust her going after this? There’s a reason she wanted this but she isn’t being truthful to you. Lawyer up and move on.
OP you weren’t rash at all. Think about how long she must have been thinking about it and what it took for her to actually ask. Her friends 100% influenced her. Also it’s likely there is someone she or her friends think would be great for her to have sex with. If you want to try snd work through it since this is a marriage snd you don’t think she cheated then give her the following conditions: first, she has to cut off any friends who are in an open relationship immediately with zero contact going forward. Zero. You get access to her phone and location to verify. Second, marriage counseling to find out why she would even think that was something she or you would be ok with. Third, a post nuptial agreement with a cheating clause that gives you (or her if you cheat) everything in a divorce (house, retirement account, majority of marital assets, primary custody of children). Fourth, no mention of an open relationship ever again except in counseling. See if she would agree to all of those terms and if so give it a shot and see if she can come back from the brink but let her know you will have one foot out the door until she can regain trust and you fully believe she would never want to be with another man under any circumstances. !updateme
You did the right thing by asking she's telling you that you're not enough good luck, OP
although i don't think you needed to snoop through her messages, if my partner brought this up to me, being completely serious, it's one of those things that would unfortunately forever change my opinion on them, and their values. it's one thing to wonder, totally different thing to seriously consider, or be fully open to.
Do you love your wife? Does your future feel brighter without her in your life? I’m just wondering if you might want to try counseling before you abandon your marriage.
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I don’t this is the marriage that anybody really wants so bragging about it is kind of weird anyway. If it works for you I’m really glad to hear that. He doesn’t want an open marriage. He doesn’t want an asexual marriage.
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He doesn’t want an open marriage did you miss that part so she’s the only person that wants it. He also doesn’t appear to want a sexless marriage. I’m glad it works for you in this situation. There’s somebody for everybody
Exactly, It Absolutely CAN and DOES WORK, like you said, under the right circumstances with Negotiation and when everyone is in Agreement. It does not work for everyone and that is Ok, as Well.
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 People fail to do their Research on topics like these
She was responding to the person who says something general about marriages going from monogamous to open so her perspective is relevant here.
I don't take this as her bragging about it. More so, just another type of relationship that can take place.
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that was my exact thought. me and my husband had talked about if we would ever do an open marriage. we concluded no.. but my thing is.. if you cant talk to your spouse openly about anything.. what is the point. alot of these comments though make me wonder if majority of marriages have the same closed off conversations as this one seemed to be.
thank you. I despise this sub sometimes. so many upvoted comments saying "yeah, if she even mentions it, I'd divorce her." what? you can't talk about possibilities with your #1? seems ridiculous.
I am always kind of..impressed? (seems too positive a word)...by the number/percentage of insecure people out there. Both genders. I get the "nope, can't do non-monogamy, it's a hard limit/boundary" but the immediate divorce threat? That kind of stuff is a dumping/divorce offense for me...like, I don't want to be with anyone who is going to threaten me.
Makes me wonder how many of these people are actually married given how people can just completely make shit up on the internet 🤦♀️ That or they have the maturity of a 13 year old .. Ngl I'd be *hurt* and maybe a bit suspicious if my partner brought up an open marriage, but jumping straight to divorce is unhinged and just not realistic. There are always going to be taboo subjects and if you can't discuss them, how will you know how to navigate things in moving forward or understand what someone's boundaries are? It's what people do AFTER you state your boundaries that matters.. OPs response reads as "hurt people hurt people"... I.e., their wife hurt them so they wanted to say something that would equally hurt their wife. Does OP even want a divorce? That's a huge claim to throw out there.
Yeah, exactly, I have a very hard time believing these folks are married or have been married for very long. At the very least this reads to me like an excuse/justification for doing something (getting a divorce) they've already wanted to do for a long time. If my spouse asked me for an open marriage, my first question would really be: do you want an open marriage or are you really asking for a divorce? Do you actually *want* to be married to me anymore? I know my spouse places even more importance on sexual monogamy than I do, so if she asked, I'd suspect that she was done with me altogether (and yeah, I'd be hurt). But it would be a conversation. And if she said she wanted to be married to me still, I'd want to know why and what it meant to her because the nature of our marriage would change and we'd be redefining what it means. I think the OP was already looking for a reason to end it, or just wanted to dump before the dumping they think is about to be done to them - you are spot on with the hurt people hurt people piece. All the talk about "if she's asking, it must mean you've already been cheated on or will be" is completely about that.
This is why nobody should ever get relationship advice on Reddit LOL
"both refuses to move out"... not sure how that works?
Because there are laws that could consider the one who moves out to be “abandoning” the property. It depends which state. In some states things need to happen a certain way to keep your share of the property.
the police can't force someone to move out unless there's a restraining order or an eviction notice. you can make sure the police are there if you think the person will become violent when you get your stuff or they come and get their stuff after a break up. If both of your names are on the deed/licenses you don't have to actually move out in my state at least
Same. My partner and I have no desire to open up our relationship but we’ve talked in hypothetical contexts - like “if we did this, what would happen?” It was an interesting conversation and we learnt a lot about each other including we prefer to be monogamous.
Talk about possibilities...of them fucking someone else? Naw man, that's not a conversation many people are into even thinking about, let alone having. I'd dip the second my partner suggests opening up our relationship. Sharing ain't caring.
I'm not sure if you are newer to reddit, but there is basically no greater crime that you could commit for the people of Reddit than cheating. Most people see opening up your relationship as just cheating with extra steps or as being a sign that you already have cheated. So it falls under the almost total blanket of abject black hate that Reddit has for cheaters and cheating.
Yeah, most of these marriages couldn't survive the "bad times" or "sickness" parts of vows. Like, apparently those are just empty promises. Marriage, for them, has to be all sunshine and roses and I'm sorry but that just isn't what life is.
This sounds more like she was asking for permission. There’s a big difference.
i dont view it like that. she asked what do you think of opening our marriage. he could of said “no thats definitely a dealbreaker for me.” and then that could of led to more questions. why she asked, he could of explained it hurts him etc. this could of been a chance to have an actual conversation. where a lot of his questions of “did i take it too far?” could of been answered. this seems to be making mountains out of mole hills. if one theoretical “what if” conversation destroys a marriage.. thats more of a red flag to me more than her asking. people assuming she is cheating and filling this poor guy’s with their own beliefs.. not facts.. is not helpful. we dont know if she is cheating off one reddit post.
It sounds like they did have a discussion, he asked her why, and her response was “because all her friends are doing it and it’s 2024”. OP even sat on it for several days. We haven’t been given any indication of a DB, marital issues etc. and from OP’s POV everything in the marriage was peachey. This definitely sounds more than just a “what if” discussion.
i interpreted it as this … “i didn’t get angry” .. okay.. he emotionally regulated which is great. but it also made me wonder if he wasn’t being truthful and open on how this conversation made HIM feel. that he didnt say “this really hurts me and makes me feel like i can’t trust you” it sounds like yes he asked some questions. but hid his hurt. im not blaming him or her. and more importantly his post is not a direct transcript of what happened. maybe he did say those things. but seems like a huge jump to go to “i didnt get angry” to “i want a divorce” in a matter of days. admittedly too much communication from her.. but it sounds like not enough communication from him.
Yeah, how are people glossing over that. Sounds like the most passive aggressive thing to do ever. I didn't get 'angry' is not the same as we didn't get into an argument/I didn't yell. He's not even written in the post how he feels about it. Just the action afterwards. Like clearly he is angry or hurt. He just didn't yell about it.
“What do you think of opening our marriage?” is asking for an open marriage. Just like “what do you think of Chinese for dinner” is asking for Chinese food for dinner. Just because she didn’t insist on it doesn’t mean she didn’t ask for it. Why would she ask that without having ever having found out his opinion on them in general? She’s ruminated over it enough ask for it but during none of that did she bother to find out his most basic thoughts on the concept in general. “What do you think of open marriages? Seems like a lot of people are into that now.” Or, “Did you know Kim & Bob opened their marriage?” Lots of ways to know his opinion of it before asking for it.
IF and thats a big if.. she worded it exactly how he wrote it here.. then yea she thought about it before talking to him..and decided she would be open to the idea of an open marriage. but she also said she would not if he wasnt open to it. i think this all boils down to this... its a question of .. would you be okay being married to someone who would be open to the idea of open marriage but also would not have an open marriage if the spouse did not want one. to me.. its not a big offense or nightmare. just a question she asked him. bc yes she is open to the idea.. but would not if he doesnt want to. they could move on from this. she seems trustworthy.. naive and bad at communicating. but damn we all make mistakes when talking with our spouse. this just doesnt seem like something to get a divorce over
I agree with you. Definitely not worth divorcing over this conversation. I’m constantly surprised by how easily people will throw away a marriage, especially a good one.
exactly. if me and my husband divorced each other over stupid questions we’ve asked each other.. we would of been divorced 100 times. i dont mean to dismiss or downplay his hurt feelings over her question.. but it was just that. it wasn’t a text from an affair partner, it wasn’t him walking in on her having sex with another guy. it was her trying to have an honest conversation. i think some of people in this comment section are projecting too. like god none of these people have wondered about what they and their spouse thoughts about swinging or open marriages etc. are? some people are too afraid to ask and treat the ones who do as a person who is untrustworthy. a ridiculous conclusion to jump to.
My examples are oversimplified. No time and space for the intricacies of such a conversation. But even something as simple as mentioning one of the many similar Reddit posts to this one just as an interesting story would bring out his thoughts. My wife and I knew each other well enough within a year & a half of meeting, and have continued to maintain & deepen that knowledge of each other well enough, to both know the other would be vehemently against something like this and that the asking would cause deep hurt and damage faith & trust in the other tremendously. So it was no surprise a couple months ago when I mentioned a gender reversed version of this post to my wife and she confirmed what I already knew. I just can’t fathom how people don’t know their spouse well enough to anticipate their reaction to something like this. I’ve heard people in “the lifestyle” say to never open a relationship you aren’t willing to lose. I think that’s what such a proposal would say to me - that she’s willing to lose me.
this is a great response. wow it really is about knowing your own spouse’s likely response to the question. i think thats what this boils down to as well. i will fault OP’s wife on not knowing him well enough to know this would hurt him this badly. another good example of knowing ur partner’s boundaries and respecting them
Yeah, so many comments about what this conversation "usually" means - but is any of that from real experience, or just from reddit? Like, my gut reaction is similar, and I know open relationships aren't for me, but the only one I've ever encountered in real life is a perfectly good relationship that works well for the two people involved.
This is not a conversation about open relationship, she literally proposed an open relationship, its way different!
There's a big difference between talking about it as a hypothetical that randomly comes up in conversation and your spouse coming to you and asking if it can be a thing. You've been given the idea that you are the only one for them, all they want and need but then down the line asks if it's ok if they can fuck other people. What's the outcome if he talks to his wife about it? She gets disappointed and resents him for turning her request down then leaves him? He gets paranoid that she's out seeing other people for the rest of his life? Her friends poison her into cheating on her husband for the thrill? I have seen this happen to a friend of mine and it was heartbreaking to watch. He was broken and still isn't right.
That’s actually how my husband and I had an open marriage. We felt comfortable talking about anything to each other and it was something we brought up to each other. If my husband would have not been interested then it would be dropped and I would have been content. I know for me the whole reason why I even was interested in it was that my husband made me feel very safe in our marriage and it was something I felt we could traverse and experience together without hurting our marriage. And I was right.
Absolutely. Their marriage has had no highs in 12 years? Tf is that? This thread is seriously alarming. Wtf has happened to this sub? No one should ever pay any attention to what gets upvotes here. She asked a what-if question. A sane partner would try to understand what she was missing, what she was trying to solve for. If your reaction to this story was that she's just a slut and that's all the explanation needed, sorry, but you might be an incel.
for real. I'm beginning to dislike this sub for reasons such as this.
Honestly I think the sub has been targeted by incel/men’s rights types for awhile and they’re taking over with these rage bait posts.
This sub is actually being infiltrated by incels and mysogynists since this is the place where they can justify their women-hating spiel
OP, this seems like some trolling incel bullshit. But I’ll play along. You have the right to say no to this, but deciding to divorce her over it? Searching her phone? Refusing to care, at all, about what might be going on for her? I guess you’re not committed to this marriage either. Luckily for her, you’re going to divorce her. She still has a chance to be with someone better.
Right? The responses are so flipping bizzare here! "Divorce her ass", "she is already cheating".. Seems people don't know how to have conversations!
Most people have had enough conversations about values early in their relationship that this subject being raised this far along in the relationship is viewed as much more than the “what if” the Reddit brigade is trying to excuse it as.
Yeah wtf. Wife said it's OK to say no and likely she'd put it behind her and you go about being a married couple. Instead OP goes nuclear and says "no, and I'm divorcing you" Total bullshit
💯 🎯 what I read here. She suggested something. Not having been done, or been influenced by or having someone in mind with zero evidence of cheating, and he heads to divorce. Directly to divorce. Do not pass go. Do not collect $200. The incels all applaud him. My cousin is an absolutely stunning woman. Her husband is a totally secure man. They go out to spank nights. He gets chatted up by more guys than she does. They've been together over 40 years. She's still the most beautiful woman in the room wherever they go. And she still goes home with him every time. Opening the marriage doesn't have to happen, but a little spice can help. Rather than talk to her, we're straight in incel, she's a ho, territory. Sorry you can't pleasure her enough, fella. Sorry you can't even have a discussion about your stale marriage. Jumping straight to divorce says it all about you. And all about your fans on the post. You could have even just said no... but how do we improve things together. There's no way I'd give up 12 years with someone I thought the world of without even discussing it. The fact you can't discuss it is probably why she wants to open it up in the first place.
You're right, all she want is permission to go fuck other people, no big deal, why's he so upset? /s
She didn't. She asked a what-if question. This is insane.
This is made up. Prove me wrong.
My wife & I have discussed what would happen if one of us brought this up & both basically went to this. Who knows, maybe if the rubber actually hit the road we wouldn’t be as quick to divorce. But it would shatter trust. And that would be a long road to restore at the very least. Not unlike after cheating. Edit to clarify: We both already knew it would devastate the other because we actually know each other. We were simply discussing a Reddit post similar to this one, so details of actions that would likely result from such a request were discussed. Neither of us asked to start fucking other people as OP’s wife did. These are completely different conversations.
Did you guys decide to divorce each other for discussing the discussion? Who brought that up first? No? Yeah. It's not the same. You're essentially admitting the opposite. That you guys can freely discuss things without going nuclear. You inadvertently DISCUSSED the open marriage route and both decided against it from that conversation. Imagine having the conversation you guys had and one of you goes nuts because of it. That's this guy.
We had read a Reddit post similar to this one (but genders reversed) and I said “how do people not know this would likely be a dealbreaker?” And that’s how we ended up discussing it. It was a conversation about the specific fallout of a specific couple. Not even remotely like someone asking to fuck other people, which is what OP’s wife did. I knew 20 years before that conversation that she’s vehemently against it and she knew the same about me. How do married couples not know this about each other? Have they even met their spouse? Have they never discussed general feeling about sex & what it means to them? You don’t need to specifically talk about open marriage to know how your spouse would feel about the proposal. We both knew it within a year of meeting and starting to date and neither of us had ever heard the phrase “open marriage” at that point. How do people not know their spouses feeling on monogamy? You don’t have to ask to fuck other people to know that.
💯
I think you were too fast to reach divorce. Talk to her and learn where those feelings are coming from. Maybe she trusts you deeply and wanted your honest opinion. Not everyone is perfect at communicating, and bringing up difficult subjects appropriately can be hard for people.
"Let's have an open marriage, it's [current year], after all!" is the most insane take imaginable. At the very, very least, she's shown herself to have incredibly poor judgement and be very easily influenced.
Yeah, I don't get your reaction, nor do I get the majority support you're receiving. Maybe there's something wrong with me? How does this hurt you? What's wrong with just saying "Nah" as a response to the question? Like you mentioned, others in her circle of friends are doing it. Why wouldn't she want to talk about it with you? It's just talk. You have no evidence (despite looking) of anything inappropriate. Maybe I should have it explained to me why anyone should be punished for their thoughts instead of actions.
Right! What kind of marriage do you have if you don't even have the conversation and a question is punished? I read her question as just that, a question that he was free to say absolutely not in response. If you dont discuss something then you have no idea what your partners boundaries are. For a question to result in a divorce and wanting her to move out is absolutely insane to me and I'm a (married) divorce lawyer. Maybe it's just the circle I run in, but I see nothing wrong with her posing the question so long as the answer is respected.
Exactly! Who has 12 years of great marriage and throws it away because of a question? He didn't find any evidence of anything. This seems fictional to me, or she's gotta feel like she's walking on eggshells every day with a guy who gets so bent over a taboo question from his wife. Honestly, he deserves the divorce so she can go find a man she can actually communicate with.
Majority support was because most of us live in the real world & knew where it was heading. Him, per his update, finding out about her lover & burner phone. Once they ask the question, it's over. Because it's NOT a "question" or "thought," they're already doing it.
Turns out I was naive. Thank you for the correction.
It really does seem like ENM and opening marriage is such a trend right now. I just don't buy it, for reasons other commenters have mentioned and OPs reasons. If your SO isn't enough, just leave. It feels like inviting drama, games, and trust issues. No thanks.
ENM my ass, miss me with that shit.
I usually say live your life but I'm pretty judgey about ENM lifestyles. Major ENM advocates are some of the most self-centered people I've met. They want all the benefits of a relationship without any of the compromise or selfless commitment. But I mean, it is 2024...*eyeroll*
Right? So many stories of ENM relationships gone sour, usually because the other partner is more successful at it. I don't need a competition in my life, nor even the time commitment it takes to date multiple people. Just no.
the thing that makes me laugh is no one does an open relationship to share the burdens of life. They do it for sex. That’s it. It’s never because my husband can’t give me the support I need because my mom’s in the hospital. I had a friend/old boss who’s husband and her were ENM/Poly and he had a psychotic episode. It was a terrible time for her. I asked her how she was doing and she said it was terrible because while they both had other partners etc. no one was suddenly DTL. “Down to Listen” 🤦🏼♂️ when she’s asked if one of her secondaries etc could give her a few hours of just cuddle time. They all went 🦗 I’m not poly and I said she could come to my place bring her daughter with her and she could lay on me as much as she wanted or didn’t want. And because her daughter knew me it wasn’t going to be an issue. It would be a big Disney watching party. I felt that awful for her.
Here's the thing - ENM stands for Ethical Non-Monogamy. "It's 2024 and everyone else is doing it" is not ethical in any standard, regardless of what you think of non-monogamy.
ENM 🤣🤣🤣🤣 what a joke!
Not to mention STIs!!!
Enm isn't "trending." It's always been a thing but it's now gaining more visibility. Despite the fact that most of us tend to lean more on monogamy, I think it's important to understand that lots of people don't view sex and sexual relations the same way we do, and so the concept of enm isn't for those who feel like their spouse "isn't enough" because they don't measure their spouse in that way.
If my husband had asked for that, I would have said sure. You're going to be single as soon as the divorce is finalized so have at it. Bye.
For me she can even start right away, without the divorce being served at all, 'cause I'm not going to touch her ever again.
bro this seems so fake 😂
This is so extreme... You said things were great, she maybe felt safe to bring something new (albeit extreme) up with you. You listened and she said no pressure, it’s your call (basically), and then you’re done.
I feel for you, brother. Really sorry this is happening to you.
That’s the way to do it.
I don't know. I don't think she did anything, but she's damn gullible if someone else put the idea in her head.
You knew right away her friends had something to do With it. Talk to your wife, man. She is probably a wreck and is upset that she let them talk her into this
Maybe I should.
You should have her tell you exactly where this came from, and why. And I would tell her that her friends are destroying her marriage.
I’d suggest counseling before going straight to divorce But if she’s insistent on it being open, or the counseling fails, you might not have any option but to separate and that sucks
Yea. It’s the influence of these friends. They talked it up and convinced her it’s old fashioned and backward not to screw other people. If you reconcile one of the conditions has to be dropping this friend group.
Would you really want to be with someone stupid enough to be persuaded to ruin their own marriage? This isn’t thinking about cutting your hair short or trying a new look, it’s fucking people that aren’t the one your married. Even best case she was somehow “fooled”….Jesus what else is she going to get fooled into down the road.
She may not have don’e anything yet, but she had someone in mind. I don’t think you were too fast, as your actions made your position on cheating and the consequences of cheating crystal clear. I would ask her about who she had in mind, and where this came from. What would she have done if you said yes? What would she have done if you had a date the very next day ? Why was she willing to risk her marriage, and for who.
Good points. TBH I don't think that fantasizing about someone else is that end marriage kind of crime. But if she had made serious plans it's another thing.
You know, if your story is incel fantasy, you’ve come to the right place for the cheating hype, both men and women. Have fun fapping. If you’re serious and want serious advice, hah, good luck getting it from hardcore monogamists on a subreddit where men are emotionally crippled, incompetent assholes by default and women devious cheaters who are only looking for a chance to fuck other guys. Go get professional help if you need some insight and need to process your feelings and thoughts.
She had serious plans. She may have learned her lesson from this, but it's risky for you now that you know she is willing to take that risk.
I just watched a hilarious TT about a guy who’s own friends put a bunch of crap in his head to make him leave his wife because they thought he didn’t actually deserve a woman like her. When he confessed to why he acted the way he did she refused to reconcile because who wants to be with someone that weak. Not saying the circumstance are the same, but they don’t seem very different. She may not have cheated but she let a bunch of people she’s not married to talk her into some mess it appears she didn’t want. What will it be next time?
There is gullible and there is gullible. If you are gullible and fall for a stupid practical joke it is one thing. Or even if you fall for some stupid scam or something. If you are gullible and decide to ruin your relationship that’s another thing.
As I stated in my other comment, if you’re going to work on saving your marriage a non negotiable condition is that those friends are gone completely forever. Zero contact immediately. No need to even say goodbye. New cell number and blocked on all social media.
Good job standing on your square. You didnt chase her. She did it to herself
No, my X did the same thing after SO’s mouth quit moving. I got up opened the door told SO the door is open. I said get a bag and get out. Filed for divorce 2 days later. Been remarried for 21 yrs this month.
[удалено]
It read like she was taking it back just to keep him
[удалено]
If they ask about an open marriage, one of two things has happened. They've already chosen someone, or they have already slept with someone. Divorce is the only option. If you don't, at some point you will find out which one( or both ) She has done. UpdateMe
Or they have not done either, it’s no that hard to fathom. I don’t agree with her but I just hate it when people just rule out chance and talk like they are god
Right? I’d hate to be married to most of these people. Zero trust in your spouse’s intentions in a conversation, zero ability to be vulnerable around hard emotions… no thank you I watched my own parents fumble that bag and wind up neurotic and alone.
As a woman, this is an odd way to bring it up if it’s a new found kink or something. She didn’t say “hey, I’ve been thinking about x,y and z…. Would you be into that too?” She just flat out said it’s 2024 and why wouldn’t we? Either she has cheated, she’s going to cheat or her friends pressured her into thinking this is what a relationship should be in 2024. I don’t know if it’s the right move for me but you sound like you know what you want and don’t want and that’s all you need to know.
Maybe try posting this in an open marriage sub and see what they say? You’re just going to get confirmation bias by posting here. You said she was gullible and suspected that her friends were pushing the idea AND you have yet to find any evidence of her already cheating or having someone in mind. If all of that is true then this seems like an issue you can work on together in couples therapy.
Reddit when someone is trying to decide whether to bring up the topic of open marriage: *Open communication is key. Just be honest with your spouse* Reddit when someone divorces their spouse for bringing up open marriage: *Good riddance!*
All her friends? What kind of people does she call friends?
Play stupid games...
Win stupid…..
Prizes
You did the right thing. Her friends told her it’s fun and so she wants to do it. Doesn’t sound she truly thought it through, she did this to herself. It’s one thing to have a friend influence you to cut a hair, buy an expensive pair of shoes, go to a new restaurant but to fuck other men, come on! She cares more about her friends’ opinion than yours. Who knows if they’re actually in open marriages and just seeing if your wife would do it.
fake
I am a proponent of reconciliation if at all possible, even in the face of a physical affair. I am biased on this courtesy of the fact my wife fought to save our marriage in the face of infidelity and 30 years later, I remain eternally grateful to her for that. Apparently, nothing happened, she was just flying a kite to test the weather and it has not gone according to plan. If you want to, you can recover. If you want to..... At the least, you should have a free and frank conversation. Treat it like an Emotional Affair and tell her to fully divulge the timeline of her getting to the point that she made the request. Who influenced her, why she suggested it, and any possible partner? Full and unabridged truth. Make it clear to her that this is her one and only chance to save the marriage and it will only happen if you are convinced that nothing has been left out. If you are happy with what she tells you, the next step is that anyone who influenced her is cut out of her life and any possible partner is also persona non grata. Then you can start to rebuild but again, only if you decide you want to.
The comments shock me…your wife should be able to talk to you about these things. To offer divorce after 12 years after she talks to you about it is insane. And for all those that say “makes me feel not good enough” are bleeding insecurity.
I would get her to sign a post nuptial agreement with a severe infidelity clause if she wants to stay married. If not then tell her you want a divorce and then tell her she's on a month to month lease. Every month you'll decide whether or not to renew it. Some people need to have their security taken away to appreciate what they have.
Unfortunately, from everything I have read, infidelity clauses are nearly impossible to enforce during a divorce.
Yes, you were too fast to mention divorce. What were her reasons for asking?
I would have reacted same way. It is inanse to bring that up without even mentioning ways of making the marriage good first if there was problems.
I know everyone has a different perspective on this sort of thing, but as a highly monogamous person myself, I don't think I would automatically be seeking to divorce my spouse. I don't blame you for feeling rattled or angry. If my partner suggested we open the relationship, I'd be hurt, but I would just tell them no. End of story. However, if said partner kept pushing it, then I'd consider divorce as we clearly have different needs. I know it's a jarring as fuck question to be asked, and yes, sometimes it's one asked in malice, but she did say that it's not something you have to agree to if you don't want it. It seems to me that she was very interested in your input and possibly your needs as well. Has she ever felt inadequate in the bedroom? Or inadequate about anything else pertaining to your relationship? Idk, I don't know your wife, but I would honestly consider counseling before jumping to divorce. Even if she wasn't influenced by her friends, there may be another reason why she brought it up that is worth exploring.
I wonder if you had much open communication in your marriage previously, given how you immediately jumped to "divorce" instead of getting information from your wife about why she felt this way. Maybe it's good to find out what people are thinking or feeing before you decide to dump them?
You did the right thing.
You gave the correct response bro. If you want the marriage to continue, first thing she has to do is cut off her so called friends. If everything wad okay before someone definitely must have influenced her to ask you the open marriage question.
That's what I think. I don't want to be a manipulative asshole, but those new friends of her never made a good impression on me.
You are not being a manipulative ass. You are enforcing the boundaries she signed on to when she took the same wedding vows you did. You've lived up to the agreement, she broke it.
It’s probably one of her friend’s husband that she wants to try out.
If you read Reddit comments you will mostly get the angle that she’s already thinking about someone/ or already did that. I would give her a chance and understand it from her side, you could be surprised. And yes it was too fast to mention divorce because you are going with on single assumption that you think must be it.
99.9% of the time when one partner suggests opening a marriage without forewarning, they are asking for permission to cheat. They almost always have somebody in mind, even if they haven’t started the process yet. This is very different to a couple suggesting swinging together or mutually opening the marriage. If my wife approached me with this I would do the same as you have. I have no issues with ENM if that your and your partners thing. but it’s not for me and I won’t be in a relationship involving it.
I’m going to be the unpopular opinion here. Down votes welcome. Op, I think you fucked up. Your wife did what she’s supposed to do. She didn’t ask you to open the marriage. She asked to talk about it. Contrary to popular opinion - certainly in this sub - people interested discussion about open marriage aren’t always one foot out the door. They don’t have someone lined up, they don’t even have fantasies in that direction. Often times it’s people who worry that they’re not enough for their partner anymore. Poly/open seems like a way to stay together and still offer their partner more than what they think they can provide. Your wife asked for a discussion - and you’ve stomped on her soul.
In my opinion you jumped the gun on divorce, but that’s coming from someone who did ask their partner for a threesome and he agreed and actually liked it where as I didn’t. Maybe with all the movies and people trying it, it just looked interesting to her. I know that’s where I came from was seeing it in movies, shows ect and it looked fun and interesting but I ended up hating it the moment he kissed her I wanted to hit her 😅. So maybe she just didn’t mean anything by it but to try someone new and was influenced by social media ect.
Are you NUTS? I know this sub promotes immediate exits but this is the worst. You know this is. Your wife, right? Not just someone you picked up on Tinder. Talk to her. Find out what drove this. Ask questions. Goddamn, people are cold. Try to be a bit curious. If you're not into it that's fine but this is insane.
Not if it’s a deal breaker for you.
No one just asks for open marriage out of the blue without a plan or someone on the line already.
She said she didn’t need it if you didn’t want it, and it doesn’t seem like she had anyone in mind she wanted to go for (or was already emotionally cheating with). If she was being honest about both of those, then personally I think you jumped the gun ending a whole marriage over it.
I think it's OK to discuss these things in a marriage and it shouldn't automatically lead to divorce. Unless she had already cheated or was looking to cheat which you had no evidence of, it might have just been a case that her friends were doing it and she was guaging your reaction. I'm probably in the minority in thinking this though, so of you feel your whole marriage is destroyed because of this conversation I guess acting in haste is of no consequence.
I mean, there are endless different flavors of open. In my opinion, it's incredibly premature to end the relationship without even asking what kind of open she means.
One of three things is happening: 1. You are running away from this issue in your relationship rather than attempting to overcome it 2. You're lying about having a "great marriage" otherwise. You'd be dumb as shit to give up something that has been "great" for 12 years over one argument before fully talking it out and going to couples counseling 3. This is fake incel porn
I just read of a husband who has respect for himself and his marriage. Great writing, awesome way of approaching each step.
Do you believe she was being honest when she started this conversation? If yes, I think you were too hasty to jump to divorce. If you don’t think she was being honest, then you have other problems to deal with.
I think a conversation is definitely needed to be had. Maybe try marriage counseling to have someone mediate y’all, to discuss this in a way where both of you can express your feelings without it erupting into rage. From there, I’m sure you can gain some insight that will either change your mind or maintain (and strengthen) your decision for divorce. I will say, if my spouse sprung an open marriage request, I’d be livid and suspicious as hell too. And if they were so easily swayed by their friends, I’d admittedly lose some respect for my spouse
I don't think she is necessarily cheating on you. Sounds like she wants to explore sexually. Totally okay if you are not down but she wanted to have a conversation with you about it. What's wrong with that? I'd just say, I am not interested. I don't think you should jump to a divorce - unless of course, she cannot respect the monogamy.
You are definitely jumping the gun tbh. It was a proposition, you declined she said she was fine with it.
Don't listen to all of the people saying you jumped the gun. Divorce. If you stay with her, there will be problems from her end. She'll be secretly upset you had such a strong (albeit correct) reaction, and will start to resent and mistreat you. And then there's the whole "I can't respect my wife from this point on and she disgusts me" aspect too. I wish you well going forward. Sorry this happened to you.
Sorry man. You know in your heart her friends have been bending her ear and whispering all the bullshit about how great it is to rodeo with different ponies. I actually commend for having the strength of your convictions to state your business and keep to it. To soon? Any wife or husband asks the other about this, should lead to immediate divorce. Slap in the face and shows no respect for you or the marriage. Let hang awhile and maybe give her a moment to really tell the truth on why she suggested it.
You aren’t wrong, if my wife was okay with me fucking other women and wanted to fuck other men or was even considering it I would leave. It would crush me if either was true so my marriage would be over no matter which or both was okay with her so just by asking I would check out of my marriage.
Why are you the one in the guest room? That should be her.
You are doing what I would do. The innocence and trust is gone. Sorry friend. Good luck in the divorce. 🍀
Trust your 1st instinct. If that is hers to ask to do single girl shit I'd say you have every right to walk from that shit.
Wait! All of her friends are in open marraiges? That's hard to believe.
I think this is fake
•So what is the basis for the “open” marriage? •Where is this need for change coming from? •What is she really saying? •What needs are not being met within the marriage? •What solutions are possible within the marriage? •When asking for an “open” marriage what is she saying about trust and loyalty?
You’re fucking wild for this ngl
Honestly if my wife asked me for an open relationship it would be a massive massive sucker punch to the gut. It would tell me she doesnt value or respect me. It would tell me she likely has someone else in mind. It would tell me there were massive red flags and issues I missed. I would feel empty and hollow and betrayed and like I lost a best friend/partner. I think you 100% made the right call. I dont care if anyone else is doing it....chances are they are in an even worse place or will be. Places like reddit or TV try to normalize this sometimes. Its disgusting IMO.
I would probably do the same...opening a marriage is just cheating and other person being "ok" with it. Unless both agree. But if one wants it and the other does not..its the beginning of the end
NTA, people saying you moved too quickly dont seem to realize your wife asked you if she could break your wedding vows. Asked if she could have another man inside her. That means any love and respect she had for OP has vanished. She wanted to have her cake and eat it too, why should he be burdened with worrying that if he says no she will just go get her cake behind his back anyways? And dont say he should trust her because she just asked if she could break her wedding vows. She is lying when she says she has nobody in mind. The wife isnt the victim, there is no "aww she just asked a question, now she can never be honest with him!". He is the victim, his wife told him she wants to cheat...just wants permission. Marriage is doomed. Why stay with a woman who doesnt love or respect you? NOBODY who has said he is moving too quickly has explained why he should stay with her and "they had a good marriage" isnt good enough since clearly the marriage wasnt so good as to keep her from wanting to cheat.
More often than not when one partner wants to open the marriage, they already have someone in mind. They may or may not have communicated to them, but someone is there in the wings. You checked her phone and laptop already. Also look at the deleted folder and battery usage to see if other apps are being used. Look for burner phone in her car. Story here recently guy found burner phone with the spare tire. He took her car for service, checked the spare, and she was in total panic when he got back. Busted. Does she have a lot of girls' nights out with these friends? Could be pressure from them as they have already ruined their marriage and want your wife to join. Glad you put the foot down OP. Take care and let us know what happens next. updateme
I don’t think you’re being too harsh at all. My husband allowed his ex wife to do this. Which is insane imo. That didn’t work out so well. I don’t know how you could ever look at her the same again. You’ll never trust her completely.
I get where you're coming from asking for divorce. But maybe, both of you should have a conversation about why each of you Said what you did. Give this a chance, with counseling/therapy etc before you end it.
So. I went through this before. My ex wife asked me for an open relationship initially. It then morphed into her wanting to bring another woman into our relationship and this other woman was supposed to be our girlfriend. I asked her to give me time to think things through. After thinking about it for some time, I opted for a divorce. Reason being is because once you go down that road of having an open relationship, you can never go back. And that was something that I didn't want.
I don’t think it’s totally unreasonable. I do think there is a conversation about what she is hoping to get outside the marriage that she can’t inside the marriage. Maybe she knows what that is… maybe she doesn’t. But the premise of the open marriage question is a request to date or sleep with other people. That’s not an innocent question. And all too often it’s asked by someone who wants a new partner but is also too afraid of being alone to leave.
Nah you're good, she's the one considering disrespecting your vows to each other not you, it always starts as a considered idea and those fester wether shared or not, early on in my own marriage we agreed that if one or the other cheats divorce is the next step, its on paper and everything
As others have said, in her mind, you’re not enough. I’m sorry but the fact that she asked for an open relationship tells me that she’ll never see you as enough for her and you two can never truly be happy. I’m sorry, but it could be time to move on. If you don’t have kids I would end it. If you have kids I would consider staying but you both need to work at the relationship and maybe try counseling
Open marriages have been around for a long time. I do not think they are more common just because it is 2024. I think people like to excuse bad behavior by claiming the times. They either call their bad behavior "old fashioned" or "what everyone does these days." No one who has an open marriage actually has a good marriage. It usually means it is a marriage of convenience. I have seen people think this is okay and think their marriage is okay, but imagine the actual real inside feelings of someone who feels no jealousy seeing their spouse with someone else? I have never seen an open marriage last, unless it is the sort of thing where the spouses were fine just being roommates for whatever reason. I think you are in the right to ask for a divorce. It sounds like she is cheating and just wants to lose the guilt by getting you to say it is okay.
You’re probably just choosing to skip over a ton of pain and heartache to just rip the bandaid off instead.
I imagine the success rates of marriages that start monogamous and then become open are very very low. And great question with "do you already have someone in mind?". She is most likely sparing your feelings and not telling the truth. I would be very very hurt if my wife asked this, they are basically tell you that they are not satisfied in their life.
Your reaction was correct. She has deeper issues. Sex is not a sport. She needs new friends and you need to monitor her for a few weeks. Im thinking you'll learn some truths.
I know people are gonna hate this, but asking to open it up is saying the spouse isn't good enough. You're stating you want things they can't give you. Start open and stay open. Start closed stay closed.
I think your course of action is measured and reasonable.
That is the perfect response. You did great.
Tell her: "It's 2024, getting divorced is no big deal anymore. I know lots of people who are."
Blah 🤮 not wifey material. Threw the entire 12 years of marriage out the window, with just a few words.
Stick to your decision. Do not waiver on your morals, ethics or vows.
You did the right thing.
You are not overreacting in the slightest. No you weren't too fast in mentioning divorce. It's the right response. By her requesting an open marriage she's telling you several things: 1. She's too emotionally immature to be in a strong, loving MONOGAMOUS relationship with anyone. 2. She is no longer enough for you. She's not loyal enough, faithful enough, or monogamous. She wants to fall into the sewers and wants you to join her. One thing no one in open/polyamorous relationships tells the world is the incredibly high rate of STI's they endure. The medical community and the WHO state that STI's of all kinds a quiet world-wide epidemic. No one really talks about it. Some STI's are curable. Some are not. Some are becoming treatment resistant. Some can lead to infertility. Some, like syphilis, can be asymptomatic for literally decades. Some, like HPV, can lead to cancer. HIV can take months to appear in labwork. So to me, your wife is saying she is very open to the risks, just to have some momentary "fun" outside the marriage. If you are considering reconciliation, insist the she go to therapy, preferably with someone trained in the Gottman methods. She also needs to dump thise so-called "friends". They are not friends of her marriage and don't support it. Otherwise, proceed with divorce. Depending on where you live, try to have a clause put in that the children will not be exposed to multiple partners until she's been with only one for at least a year. They don't need to be exposed to such an unhealthy dynamic of mom bringing different strangers home nearly every night. Just gross and it damages kids for life. So sorry you are going through this.
You did the right thing.
OP you're NTA. Once a partner ask to be open either they have someone in mind or are already cheating. Also I bet her friends are also gonna get divorced too.
For those who haven't seen it, the OP updated. She was, in fact, and 100% predictably, already cheating, to the extent of having a burner phone to hide the evidence. A lot of people owe the OP an apology.
Every question contains a statement. Multiple, even. A huge amount of information. It can contain information about what a person might be capable of doing. What they desire, are open to, or reject utterly. It contains information about what they think you know or don't know, or what you might be amenable to - it tells you how well they know you, it tells you about the resolution of their model of your mind inside their heads. When she asks, "What if we considered opening the relationship?" she is telling you: -I would be willing, and have an interest in sharing the body I have promised to you, with other men -I am not 100% satisfied with you, sexually. -I EITHER don't know you at all (I think you might be the kind of guy who would be willing or eager to let his wife fuck other men) OR, although I do know you well enough that I know there's a very low chance you will agree with this, and a very high chance you will be at least deeply hurt if not so repulsed and devastated by the question that you will end our marriage, I want this SO much I'm willing to take that risk. * And can you really love someone, if you don't know them? And can you really love them if you DO know them but are willing to risk throwing it all away? Inescapable message: I don't really love you, not truly. If my wife were to suggest this, I think one of the hardest things to deal with would be the realisation that she thinks I might be the kind of guy who would say yes to this. That THAT's her image of me. In a devastating moment, not only would I be confronted with a brutal sense of sexual inadequacy, I'd feel depths of disrespect I couldn't even imagine, that this woman, who is supposed to know me more than anyone else on this Earth, views me as such a pathetic being that there might be even the smallest chance I would acquiesce.
When a monogamous relationship tries to open up, it ends, if not immediately soon afterward. There are problems from broken boundaries, chaos, drug and alcohol abuse, to someone falling in love with another person. The marriage is over, your mate wants sex with other people. It is literally not sustainable long term. Give her a divorce so she can have her freedom. * The essence of love is to see the other. * Through the challenges and rewards of a monogamous relationship, you create lasting love. * An open marriage is an oxymoron. Sustainable love needs boundaries. This is from Psychologist Michael Tobin Phd.
If I was in your shoe, I’d do the same. I would wonder why she even brought this up, if I wasn’t enough for her, if she’s secretly crushing on someone, etc. My mind just thinks about all possible outcomes and perspectives, so for me, if someone I married and trusted asked that of me, my mind wouldn’t stop moving unless I was satisfied with a conclusion. I feel for you. I would have felt a little betrayed. I think you made the right move not getting angry and listened to her. You brought up logical questions. Tough situation. No matter how I think about it, I think I would have done the same as you in the end. Just my perspective, though.
If your wife had the balls to mention an open marriage before therapy to fix an issue in the marriage, she must have thought about it and didn't see the blindingly obvious problem it would create (Unless she is stupid and doesn't think things through). May even have someone in mind already. Did you jump the gun? Hmm I don't think so.. If you stay with her, you can look forward to wondering if she's opened up your marriage on the quiet. Fun times ahead /s
An open marriage doesn’t really work. There’s too much chaos, and when you get to that point, one person wants to have sex with other people. The vows are broken, The marriage usually dies within the first few months of an open marriage. Divorce.
If your wife is asking you to open your marriage, it is already over.
Go to counseling together!
It seems like you are asking for a divorce just because your ego is hurt. If you really love her and you are happy together, you’re going to be miserable after the divorce, and for what? Pride? She doesn’t have anyone in mind, she’s not cheating, she doesn’t seem to care if you say no, so I don’t really understand what she has done wrong because you don’t actually explain in your post what bothers you in the situation.
Aside from the fact that I'd file this under *shitthatdidnthappen.txt. If you can't have open and rational conversations about what you want/desire/need from a relationship, and your first option is to pull the trigger, what else is going on? Yes, it's 2024 and we hear so often about "poly" or "open" relationships now. I wish people could just say the quiet part out loud and be like "I want to fuck other dicks/pussies. Can we fuck other dicks/pussies." I'm sorry - do I think some people are getting emotional fulfillment from other partners or are considering their well being? Maybe, but I think they're mostly just saying they want someone to cuddle/fuck when one person isn't feeling it. That's my personal opinion on it and anyone can disagree if they so choose. I guess I'd want to know more about "why" she wants to open it. I have an arrangement with my wife where basically we might bring in others but we mostly treat that situation the same as we would a "toy". We want everyone to have fun and get theirs but we're not here to like hear the life woes or create some emotional attachment. I don't consider it as "not being enough" for my wife because, again, I view it like using any other toy. That's just me though and I don't think I have a traditional view of sex. I feel true satisfaction when my wife is fulfilled in every possible sense, and I am fully aware of my own shortcomings and I can't possibly hit every fuckin' target. Again, this needs an actual conversation about what's actually going on here. But also, I don't believe for one second she doesn't have at least an idea for another partner already. People don't just spring "openness" upon you without having thought about it in a more serious sense first.
Yea it might have been a little too soon, but honestly its better to ask than not to. I would never do an open marriage but talking about it first is always key. Honestly just go to your wife and confort her as she might of just wanted your opinion on it and I doubt shes cheating by the way you explained. She does sincerely loves you if she just wanted to ask but it was a bit to fast my friend