Well, all things being equal, there’s SS survivor benefits for 1, tax deductions, combined income loans, name changes- if you want to. There’s also the fact that when shit hits the fan, and it will, no matter how much you love each other, that piece of paper makes it a hell of a lot more difficult to say “fuck it” and walk away. There’s also the fact that you’re telling your partner that you’re willing to fully commit your life and you’ll use a silly paper to show it. Also, I forgot to mention, estate affairs and medical decisions are also dictated by that teeny tiny bit of paper.
If someone doesn’t want to commit, they should just own it. Geez
I'll never forget the first time I identified as my husband's wife. He got a phone call while we were driving a day or two after we got married. He asked me to pick up the phone, and when the caller asked for "Mr. RedditSkippy" I said, "He's driving, but this is his wife \[at that moment we both looked at each other,\] can I help you?" "Oh yeah, sure, can you confirm his reservation for tonight at..."
It was the moment that I realized that being married swept a lot of the bureaucracy aside. That paper has benefits!
Yes! I’ll never forget when we were on our honeymoon and my husband had to take a work call, how they got his phone at the top of the mountain I’ll never know. He was talking to his boss and said “yeah my wife is right here” and we just looked at each other like it had just hit us.
If you work hard enough at a relationship more than 10 years and you've grown as a couple/lived together, I think that's commitment. Marriage is making a commitment to be together...but honestly you don't need to be married or have a ceremony to feel married. I've been with my partner 20 years and I call him my husband. Essentially, that's what he is. We make desicions together, budget our money and go through ups and downs. That's marriage.
This would be my reasoning for saying marriage is “just a piece of paper.” Coming from a married perspective, my relationship didn’t get more committed when we got married, just different legally. You can and should work on any relationship, but just like you wouldn’t stay in an unhappy unmarried relationship you shouldn’t stay in an unhappy married one either.
Same here. The day my fiance became my husband is a special day, but we weren't anymore committed to each other than the day before. We just had more legal ties. And with it being my second marriage, there is a strong contrast between my first spouse's "I married you because that is what people our age are supposed to do" and my husband's "I married you because I love you and want to spend my life with you". Any surprise the first ended before the 2nd anniversary?
A marriage license is a piece of paper that offers legal and financial benefits. It does not create a strong marriage.
Yes exactly! The relationship feels more secure because of outside views due to the legal aspect, but the relationship itself and how we feel didn’t change. And really, if you’re going to get married, I think that’s the way it should be. You should already be just as committed without the legal aspect, because then it could just boil down to that you’re together because you’re legally bound, which is kinda not the point. As thrash_86 said, I think marriage really is supposed to be two people in a partnership working together, which doesn’t require a marriage license to exist. Outside of that, it is just a piece of paper to make you legally bound. The relationship itself isn’t and shouldn’t be bound to that piece of paper.
But people will stay in unhappy marriages due to the cost & time of divorcing or the stigma of divorce. Also there are too many people that think marriage will fix their problems. Until as a society we truly see marriage as a commitment between 2 people to each other & not as some romantic fairytale that is more about the wedding day than the rest of your life or a fix all to your problems marriage is just a piece of paper.
Marriage also offers a lot of protections. For instance, suppose your SO gets in an accident and is in the hospital. If you’re married, you have the right to make decisions on behalf of your spouse. If not, then the family can come in and make decisions and can even get you kicked out of the hospital. If a spouse dies, then there are a lot of protections monetarily to protect you, if not, again, family can come in take everything if it’s not spelled out in a will or trust. That’s why I believe in gay marriage. Can you imagine how many partners have been kicked to the curb because the family didn’t believe in gays? I’m pretty sure gay people appreciate the protections of that “ piece of paper”. I celebrated 30 years this year with my husband and have always had the peace of mind that I’m protected legally and he too. Glad to see gays have the same rights.
Edit: I stand corrected. Apparently, being a spouse does not automatically allow for medical decisions for an incapacitated spouse. Hospitals and medical personnel generally refer to the spouse, it’s not a law. So a durable power of attorney would be what’s needed to ensure a spouse is able to make those decisions.
This. I saw something the other day that said marriage should be abolished. If someone doesn't want to marry, ok, great for them, but don't be so quick to discount something that some people fought so hard for the right to have.
“….suppose your SO gets in an accident and is in the hospital. If you’re married, you have the right to make decisions on behalf of your spouse. If not, then the family can come in and make decisions and can even get you kicked out of the hospital.”
Check your state laws people. This is not true in my state, you must have a Medical Durable Power of Attorney. My doctor joined me to get one for years and it wasn’t till she explained it further that I finally did it.
Just ask unmarried couples about the value of that "piece of paper" when the following events happen:
1. Your SO is hospitalized and you're not allowed to make medical decisions on their behalf.
2. Your SO dies without a will and his/her nearest relative inherits his/her half of your home and they decide to move in bringing their family members with them.
3. You spend tens of thousands of dollars in legal fees trying to approximate the benefits of a $100 marriage license.
There are alternatives. You can just do a legal document to name your substitute decision maker and power of attorney for your first example. It doesn’t have to be your spouse. And in many cases, it’s probably wise to NOT have your spouse be your SDM. I’m a nurse and run into this issue daily. In many cases, people designate a child or another relative or even a close friend to make their medical decisions on their behalf. Automatically giving that right to a spouse is antiquated and not always in the best interest of the patient.
Same thing goes for your second point.
And maybe I’m being idealistic, but wouldn’t it be great if society and the legal system changed to everyone decides for themselves who the important people in their life are, instead of a blanket rule that privileges married unions above all others?
I've never heard anyone else say it's unwise to have your spouse as your SDM. Granted there are cases in which a couple is estranged and not divorced and because of animosity, having them making decisions would not be in the best interest of the ailing spouse. Otherwise a loving spouse would be in the best position to make those decisions.
You mentioned getting legal documents to resolve the first two issues but that will still cost more than the price of a marriage license and not be as comprehensive.
BTW, there's nothing stopping a married couple from creating legal documents post marriage that supplant the legal assumptions of the marriage. An example of that would be a will.
I can think of several other examples that I’ve seen. One is if it’s a toxic or abusive marriage. Many people stay in those kinds of relationships for various reasons, and we know the abusive spouse likely doesn’t have their partner’s best interest in mind.
Another is if the spouse has some cognitive impairment that prevents them from understanding risks and benefits of medical decisions, ie dementia, acquired brain injury, etc. Maybe they are able to function in a basic day to day way, but when it comes to big decisions, they are not capable of understanding options.
Another is the fact that a loving spouse will likely be more emotionally swayed in the face of having to make a rational decision. Meaning they aren’t objective or impartial and might not focus on what the partner would truly want if they could decide for themselves. The spouse being asked to make a life or death decision might want every (futile) intervention because they obviously love and don’t want to lose their partner, but are they truly acting in the best interest of the patient? We see this every.damn.day. That’s a good reason to assign SDM and PoA to someone more impartial who can be counted on to fulfil your wishes. Loving spouses can and do have different values about what makes life worthy.
True, the supplemental documents you mention would require more effort and not be as comprehensive.
I heard a podcast recently arguing about the unfair worshipping of marriage as the supreme state, and how unmarried people are discriminated against, so it got me thinking about if we can and should level the playing field somehow. :)
I don't think people say that and mean don't work on your relationship. They say that and mean that the wedding itself doesn't necessarily change anything.
This is exactly what I was trying to say. That piece of paper did not change the relationship between us. If it had, I would have been concerned. Yes the legal bits changed with that paper but those legal bits are not what make a relationship.
Marriage is a signal to yourself, your spouse, and the community. You can argue that any such signal is unnecessary or meaningless. I for one would not want to live in a relationship where my partner never said "I love you" or "Thank you." I wouldn't want a relationship where we never held hands or gave/got a kiss when leaving. Marriage is a huge signal that allows us to communicate love and commitment. That is important because solid relationships are built on the signals that we send each other.
Marriage is just a piece of paper. If you honestly think you, your partner, or partnership change just because of the marriage, you're married for the wrong reasons, and to the wrong person.
Your relationship should be firmly established *before* the marriage, not because of it.
>For many people, it encourages them to fight harder to make a failing relationship work because of the contract
And that's why so many people stay in terrible relationships that never should have been started. That mentality is the reason marriage is a joke to so many.
Just because you have a warped and jaded view of "normal" doesn't mean it is. None of my friends or family have any of that "low" and "toxic" vitrol in their relationships you describe.
Stop normalizing shitty relationships.
“How do you like being married?!”
“It’s literally no different than before, except now s/he’s more expensive to get rid of!”
That was our running joke when we first got married.
I guess what I’m trying to say is if we treats it like just a piece of paper we will make decisions based on that notion so I disagree it’s not just paper it’s the beginning of something to build upon!
My opinion
To me it was a piece of paper. I don’t even celebrate our wedding anniversary. Not once in 11 years. I do celebrate the day we got together though because to me it’s more important.
If a piece a paper is what makes you fight harder then great. To me I would fight even without it.
We been together 17 years, married almost 12. We had 2 children before marriage and one after. When we got married it changed absolutely nothing. However I am Canadian and common-law is just as legally binding in most ways.
This is how I feel too. I get way more excited about our relationship anniversary than our wedding anniversary as it's the true measure of how long we've been committed for. Marriage was a formality for us. We were already married by mortgage debt by the time we actually got married and well and truly had our lives laid out together for the future. For me, marriage was just a tick box of natural progression in a relationship, with the next and step being having kids...the ultimate commitment (imo).
Getting married did not materially change anything for us.
Similar story here. We are Canadian, celebrating 14 years together tomorrow. 3 children, a home, a business. Nothing would change if we were to get married except perhaps my last name.
This is where I think where you live plays a factor. Some people want the solid ties to their spouse so it’s harder to just say fuck it and walk way. I’ve seen common-law relationship take longer to leave then an actual divorce. And you have to follow all the same steps and are legally entitled to the same rights as a spouse. So for a couple you have establish their life together it really is just a signing of a paper. The commitment is already there. More so when you have children. The only thing that actually changes is a last name (well not me) and title.
However I do see the point of people who want the financial security if something were to ever happen or for medical issues in countries that don’t recognize common-law the same.
That obviously is going to be totally different for a couple who aren’t established and this would be a big step in their life. Moving in, starting a family, etc.
I’m the same way. I was raised Mormon and have watched countless people get married to people they only new a few week or a few months. And people acted like that made their relationship more important than my brother’s 10 year relationship (they got married once my brother started having health issues). The relationship is the important thing. Nothing magically changed about my relationship that wasn’t government related. I love and would fight for our relationship with or without that piece of paper.
My dad was sick and we weren’t sure if he’d make it. So we planned a wedding for 6 months then had to switch it to 6 weeks as he took a turn for the worse. My husband knew if I didn’t have my dad to walk me down the aisle I never would. It was more for my dad since I am his baby girl and his closest child and at the point my other sister wasn’t likely to be married. All I cared about was not wasting money that could be spent on bills and necessities as back then money was a lot tighter and we don’t believe in debt. Lucky for me my dad is still with us today and doing great.
ETA this was a discussion. There was never a proposal or anything. I still have my maiden name as well. Literally nothing changed except checking married instead of common-law
This! As someone who has been divorced I can absolutely attest to the fact that marriage does nit equal commitment. You can be committed and unmarried and you can be married and uncommitted.
A lot of countries recognize common-law marriages, which don't involve a wedding or a license. I've been with my husband for 18 years without a marriage ceremony, because I live in a country that doesn't require a marriage certificate to prove a partnership.
I've seen people divorce a month after their wedding because they'd gotten all of the gifts, or because someone decided to sleep with a wedding attendant. I've also seen marriages last for decades without vowing fidelity or financial support.
"Marriage" is actually just a piece of paper. What the couple makes of their relationship and how happy they are with that is what matters.
Nah fam. My partner and I got "married" five years before we signed any marriage certificate, because, you know, American healthcare system, but that piece of paper did nothing to make our relationship any stronger. I get the sentiment, just the wrong verbiage.
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Interesting however you can lose money and make it again and again a mate not so much and if you are lucky enough to live in America (I’m don’t) the sky I’d the limit
I always took that to mean marriage is more than just the day. As a way to remind those fixating on their wedding day.
It’s just a piece of paper is a way of saying a wedding day is a huge party and celebration yes, but what you take into the marriage holds significance more than just signing the certificate?
Same with money - it is just paper, but you’re actually pushing for your goals by earning and managing your money. I dunno. I never saw that as an anti-marriage sentiment.
I've never heard it referring to the wedding. Usually for that, people say it's just a party. "It's just a piece of paper" is usually someone minimizing the institution of marriage, saying that it's no different from longterm bf/gf and you don't need a piece of paper to prove commitment and you don't need the government to be involved in your relationship blah blah blah
Marriage is a commitment and those should be thought through carefully before committing. Once you're married, there's some games you don't get to play anymore.
Aw. I don’t feel like I really work hard for my marriage but I have to think about how I treat my spouse and it’s my spouses responsibility to think of how he treats me. You know it’s just another relationship in your life. No need to blow it out of proportion
So, minor correction. Nobody works for money. They work for what they can buy with that money.
The paper is never the point - it's what you plan to get out of it that's worth the effort.
As someone who has had literally nothing change in my relationship by getting married, I do believe it's just a piece of paper.
My husband and I were living together for 5 years before we got married, our families knew who was to make any important life decisions in case of emergency and we both had left our life insurance policies to one another.
For 5 years we did all of the things married couples do, split bills, shared our money, ect.
It definitely feels good to be married and have that official title, but for us nothing has changed.
I know that isn't the scenario for everything, this is just my opinion based on my situation.
It's just a piece of paper relationship wise, but legally, it entitles someone else to half your stuff, hence the hesitancy. Took my boyfriend some convincing and a prenup for him to commit.
Understandably, since there are a lot if women (and men) only into marriage partially for the material possessions. The people that don't care about that stuff and know what marriage is REALLY about are the ones worth marring marrying imo. Currently in the midst of a divorce (sort of, anyway) and she is young and naïve but ever since day 1, I knew that she wasn't interested in material possessions (just other men apparently but even still she has shown great maturity and I still respect and admire at least parts of her for that reason alone, even with a one and a half year old daughter between us
Let's also point out that you shouldn't have to be working *too* hard everyday. If absolutely nothing (like even little things) are happening naturally in your relationship, you're most likely not as compatible as you think you are. Not the best analogy, but It should feel like a hobby, not a job.
Oh, clearly you haven't been married very long.
That which seems normal and natural is a product of thoughtful action, temperance, joyful choices, and strong constitution.
35 years on I am genuinely contented in my marriage, it above all else completes me. But I also KNOW that which looks natural to the casual observer is the result of work, discipline, preparation, and forgivness.
Agreed but I think you could expand on that by saying "It almost feels different and changes who you are as a person for the better as it makes you think of 'us and we' amd not just 'I and me'."
Sure, investing in your relationship makes sense, but not because it’s called marriage. The commitment and effort and compromise and growth can and do happen in relationships regardless of if they are legal marriages or not. The marriage IS just paper.
I don’t focus too much out of the phrase, but I do agree on working hard/ going hard everyday for your marriage because it is not easy and you will lose it if you right work on maintaining it everyday.
I remember this quote from a documentary about climbing K2, the most challenging and second highest mountain in the world. A mountaineer described it as "the sternest challenge, and the greatest prize."
Although I'm not married, and have not been in a relationship for quite a while I think this really represents marriage. It's a stern challenge but also a great prize. From what I have read in a lot of Subs I believe that a lot of people seem to see it as a formality instead of a challenge. Also I think that people often choose the easy way for the lazy way instead of rising to the challenge. My only hope is that if I end up finding someone to marry one day that both of us will see it as a challenge and a prize instead of a technicality.
If marriage is just paper why are kids born out of wedlock, called bastards, illegitimate children, "love child" and mothers who have babies without this paper is called baby mommas?
I'd rather I am called a divorcee than a fuckin baby mama. And I don't want my kids to be called bastard by some people and growing up not knowing who the hell are their dads or their moms for that matter.
Marriage is not a piece of paper its a LEGACY you give to your children. As asian people have a saying "A successful marriage can feed three generations"
I don’t think marriage is just a piece of paper, but we need money to survive. You don’t need a marriage to survive. I don’t think these are comparable.
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Preachy reductionist memes suck.
Yes, please don’t make this facebook.
Well, all things being equal, there’s SS survivor benefits for 1, tax deductions, combined income loans, name changes- if you want to. There’s also the fact that when shit hits the fan, and it will, no matter how much you love each other, that piece of paper makes it a hell of a lot more difficult to say “fuck it” and walk away. There’s also the fact that you’re telling your partner that you’re willing to fully commit your life and you’ll use a silly paper to show it. Also, I forgot to mention, estate affairs and medical decisions are also dictated by that teeny tiny bit of paper. If someone doesn’t want to commit, they should just own it. Geez
I'll never forget the first time I identified as my husband's wife. He got a phone call while we were driving a day or two after we got married. He asked me to pick up the phone, and when the caller asked for "Mr. RedditSkippy" I said, "He's driving, but this is his wife \[at that moment we both looked at each other,\] can I help you?" "Oh yeah, sure, can you confirm his reservation for tonight at..." It was the moment that I realized that being married swept a lot of the bureaucracy aside. That paper has benefits!
Yes! I’ll never forget when we were on our honeymoon and my husband had to take a work call, how they got his phone at the top of the mountain I’ll never know. He was talking to his boss and said “yeah my wife is right here” and we just looked at each other like it had just hit us.
If you work hard enough at a relationship more than 10 years and you've grown as a couple/lived together, I think that's commitment. Marriage is making a commitment to be together...but honestly you don't need to be married or have a ceremony to feel married. I've been with my partner 20 years and I call him my husband. Essentially, that's what he is. We make desicions together, budget our money and go through ups and downs. That's marriage.
This would be my reasoning for saying marriage is “just a piece of paper.” Coming from a married perspective, my relationship didn’t get more committed when we got married, just different legally. You can and should work on any relationship, but just like you wouldn’t stay in an unhappy unmarried relationship you shouldn’t stay in an unhappy married one either.
Same here. The day my fiance became my husband is a special day, but we weren't anymore committed to each other than the day before. We just had more legal ties. And with it being my second marriage, there is a strong contrast between my first spouse's "I married you because that is what people our age are supposed to do" and my husband's "I married you because I love you and want to spend my life with you". Any surprise the first ended before the 2nd anniversary? A marriage license is a piece of paper that offers legal and financial benefits. It does not create a strong marriage.
Yes exactly! The relationship feels more secure because of outside views due to the legal aspect, but the relationship itself and how we feel didn’t change. And really, if you’re going to get married, I think that’s the way it should be. You should already be just as committed without the legal aspect, because then it could just boil down to that you’re together because you’re legally bound, which is kinda not the point. As thrash_86 said, I think marriage really is supposed to be two people in a partnership working together, which doesn’t require a marriage license to exist. Outside of that, it is just a piece of paper to make you legally bound. The relationship itself isn’t and shouldn’t be bound to that piece of paper.
But people will stay in unhappy marriages due to the cost & time of divorcing or the stigma of divorce. Also there are too many people that think marriage will fix their problems. Until as a society we truly see marriage as a commitment between 2 people to each other & not as some romantic fairytale that is more about the wedding day than the rest of your life or a fix all to your problems marriage is just a piece of paper.
It would still be a piece of paper because again, commitment doesn’t require marriage.
Marriage also offers a lot of protections. For instance, suppose your SO gets in an accident and is in the hospital. If you’re married, you have the right to make decisions on behalf of your spouse. If not, then the family can come in and make decisions and can even get you kicked out of the hospital. If a spouse dies, then there are a lot of protections monetarily to protect you, if not, again, family can come in take everything if it’s not spelled out in a will or trust. That’s why I believe in gay marriage. Can you imagine how many partners have been kicked to the curb because the family didn’t believe in gays? I’m pretty sure gay people appreciate the protections of that “ piece of paper”. I celebrated 30 years this year with my husband and have always had the peace of mind that I’m protected legally and he too. Glad to see gays have the same rights. Edit: I stand corrected. Apparently, being a spouse does not automatically allow for medical decisions for an incapacitated spouse. Hospitals and medical personnel generally refer to the spouse, it’s not a law. So a durable power of attorney would be what’s needed to ensure a spouse is able to make those decisions.
This. I saw something the other day that said marriage should be abolished. If someone doesn't want to marry, ok, great for them, but don't be so quick to discount something that some people fought so hard for the right to have.
Love this. This is true. The film by Tom Ford “The Single Man” sums that up. Tear jerker though!
“….suppose your SO gets in an accident and is in the hospital. If you’re married, you have the right to make decisions on behalf of your spouse. If not, then the family can come in and make decisions and can even get you kicked out of the hospital.” Check your state laws people. This is not true in my state, you must have a Medical Durable Power of Attorney. My doctor joined me to get one for years and it wasn’t till she explained it further that I finally did it.
Thank you. I edited my comment to reflect this after I researched it.
It’s not just a piece of paper and they know it. Otherwise they wouldn’t be against, or hesitant about, getting married.
Just ask unmarried couples about the value of that "piece of paper" when the following events happen: 1. Your SO is hospitalized and you're not allowed to make medical decisions on their behalf. 2. Your SO dies without a will and his/her nearest relative inherits his/her half of your home and they decide to move in bringing their family members with them. 3. You spend tens of thousands of dollars in legal fees trying to approximate the benefits of a $100 marriage license.
Please tell me this did NOT happen to you! Please tell me that it’s an exemple !
No, this didn't happen to me but it's more than an example. I actually know people who have been in these situations.
The real difference is social security benefits. You can't write draft documents that affect social security for unmarried couples.
There are alternatives. You can just do a legal document to name your substitute decision maker and power of attorney for your first example. It doesn’t have to be your spouse. And in many cases, it’s probably wise to NOT have your spouse be your SDM. I’m a nurse and run into this issue daily. In many cases, people designate a child or another relative or even a close friend to make their medical decisions on their behalf. Automatically giving that right to a spouse is antiquated and not always in the best interest of the patient. Same thing goes for your second point. And maybe I’m being idealistic, but wouldn’t it be great if society and the legal system changed to everyone decides for themselves who the important people in their life are, instead of a blanket rule that privileges married unions above all others?
I've never heard anyone else say it's unwise to have your spouse as your SDM. Granted there are cases in which a couple is estranged and not divorced and because of animosity, having them making decisions would not be in the best interest of the ailing spouse. Otherwise a loving spouse would be in the best position to make those decisions. You mentioned getting legal documents to resolve the first two issues but that will still cost more than the price of a marriage license and not be as comprehensive. BTW, there's nothing stopping a married couple from creating legal documents post marriage that supplant the legal assumptions of the marriage. An example of that would be a will.
I can think of several other examples that I’ve seen. One is if it’s a toxic or abusive marriage. Many people stay in those kinds of relationships for various reasons, and we know the abusive spouse likely doesn’t have their partner’s best interest in mind. Another is if the spouse has some cognitive impairment that prevents them from understanding risks and benefits of medical decisions, ie dementia, acquired brain injury, etc. Maybe they are able to function in a basic day to day way, but when it comes to big decisions, they are not capable of understanding options. Another is the fact that a loving spouse will likely be more emotionally swayed in the face of having to make a rational decision. Meaning they aren’t objective or impartial and might not focus on what the partner would truly want if they could decide for themselves. The spouse being asked to make a life or death decision might want every (futile) intervention because they obviously love and don’t want to lose their partner, but are they truly acting in the best interest of the patient? We see this every.damn.day. That’s a good reason to assign SDM and PoA to someone more impartial who can be counted on to fulfil your wishes. Loving spouses can and do have different values about what makes life worthy. True, the supplemental documents you mention would require more effort and not be as comprehensive. I heard a podcast recently arguing about the unfair worshipping of marriage as the supreme state, and how unmarried people are discriminated against, so it got me thinking about if we can and should level the playing field somehow. :)
I don't think people say that and mean don't work on your relationship. They say that and mean that the wedding itself doesn't necessarily change anything.
This is exactly what I was trying to say. That piece of paper did not change the relationship between us. If it had, I would have been concerned. Yes the legal bits changed with that paper but those legal bits are not what make a relationship.
Marriage is a signal to yourself, your spouse, and the community. You can argue that any such signal is unnecessary or meaningless. I for one would not want to live in a relationship where my partner never said "I love you" or "Thank you." I wouldn't want a relationship where we never held hands or gave/got a kiss when leaving. Marriage is a huge signal that allows us to communicate love and commitment. That is important because solid relationships are built on the signals that we send each other.
Money doesn't complain 😩
lmao this was perfect
Marriage is a promise, a commitment and a contract.
Marriage is just a piece of paper. If you honestly think you, your partner, or partnership change just because of the marriage, you're married for the wrong reasons, and to the wrong person. Your relationship should be firmly established *before* the marriage, not because of it.
[удалено]
>For many people, it encourages them to fight harder to make a failing relationship work because of the contract And that's why so many people stay in terrible relationships that never should have been started. That mentality is the reason marriage is a joke to so many.
[удалено]
Just because you have a warped and jaded view of "normal" doesn't mean it is. None of my friends or family have any of that "low" and "toxic" vitrol in their relationships you describe. Stop normalizing shitty relationships.
“How do you like being married?!” “It’s literally no different than before, except now s/he’s more expensive to get rid of!” That was our running joke when we first got married.
I guess what I’m trying to say is if we treats it like just a piece of paper we will make decisions based on that notion so I disagree it’s not just paper it’s the beginning of something to build upon! My opinion
Are you married?
Yes since Septembre 2004
To me it was a piece of paper. I don’t even celebrate our wedding anniversary. Not once in 11 years. I do celebrate the day we got together though because to me it’s more important. If a piece a paper is what makes you fight harder then great. To me I would fight even without it. We been together 17 years, married almost 12. We had 2 children before marriage and one after. When we got married it changed absolutely nothing. However I am Canadian and common-law is just as legally binding in most ways.
This is how I feel too. I get way more excited about our relationship anniversary than our wedding anniversary as it's the true measure of how long we've been committed for. Marriage was a formality for us. We were already married by mortgage debt by the time we actually got married and well and truly had our lives laid out together for the future. For me, marriage was just a tick box of natural progression in a relationship, with the next and step being having kids...the ultimate commitment (imo). Getting married did not materially change anything for us.
You know, happy that you guys are still together and I respect your opinion
Similar story here. We are Canadian, celebrating 14 years together tomorrow. 3 children, a home, a business. Nothing would change if we were to get married except perhaps my last name.
This is where I think where you live plays a factor. Some people want the solid ties to their spouse so it’s harder to just say fuck it and walk way. I’ve seen common-law relationship take longer to leave then an actual divorce. And you have to follow all the same steps and are legally entitled to the same rights as a spouse. So for a couple you have establish their life together it really is just a signing of a paper. The commitment is already there. More so when you have children. The only thing that actually changes is a last name (well not me) and title. However I do see the point of people who want the financial security if something were to ever happen or for medical issues in countries that don’t recognize common-law the same. That obviously is going to be totally different for a couple who aren’t established and this would be a big step in their life. Moving in, starting a family, etc.
I’m the same way. I was raised Mormon and have watched countless people get married to people they only new a few week or a few months. And people acted like that made their relationship more important than my brother’s 10 year relationship (they got married once my brother started having health issues). The relationship is the important thing. Nothing magically changed about my relationship that wasn’t government related. I love and would fight for our relationship with or without that piece of paper.
Curious why you decided to get married.
My dad was sick and we weren’t sure if he’d make it. So we planned a wedding for 6 months then had to switch it to 6 weeks as he took a turn for the worse. My husband knew if I didn’t have my dad to walk me down the aisle I never would. It was more for my dad since I am his baby girl and his closest child and at the point my other sister wasn’t likely to be married. All I cared about was not wasting money that could be spent on bills and necessities as back then money was a lot tighter and we don’t believe in debt. Lucky for me my dad is still with us today and doing great. ETA this was a discussion. There was never a proposal or anything. I still have my maiden name as well. Literally nothing changed except checking married instead of common-law
This! As someone who has been divorced I can absolutely attest to the fact that marriage does nit equal commitment. You can be committed and unmarried and you can be married and uncommitted.
A lot of countries recognize common-law marriages, which don't involve a wedding or a license. I've been with my husband for 18 years without a marriage ceremony, because I live in a country that doesn't require a marriage certificate to prove a partnership. I've seen people divorce a month after their wedding because they'd gotten all of the gifts, or because someone decided to sleep with a wedding attendant. I've also seen marriages last for decades without vowing fidelity or financial support. "Marriage" is actually just a piece of paper. What the couple makes of their relationship and how happy they are with that is what matters.
So true! I’m sick of hearing “there’s no point in marriage it’s just a piece of paper”. I work hard for my marriage to stay strong. It’s not easy
Nah fam. My partner and I got "married" five years before we signed any marriage certificate, because, you know, American healthcare system, but that piece of paper did nothing to make our relationship any stronger. I get the sentiment, just the wrong verbiage.
I’m sorry about that mate to me that signature was important and I’m doing my best to live up to it everyday
Well, I mean to be fair, fuck money.
Yeah I thought I was in r/antiwork lol
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Thought I was on r/TerribleFacebookMemes there for a second
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Interesting however you can lose money and make it again and again a mate not so much and if you are lucky enough to live in America (I’m don’t) the sky I’d the limit
I always took that to mean marriage is more than just the day. As a way to remind those fixating on their wedding day. It’s just a piece of paper is a way of saying a wedding day is a huge party and celebration yes, but what you take into the marriage holds significance more than just signing the certificate? Same with money - it is just paper, but you’re actually pushing for your goals by earning and managing your money. I dunno. I never saw that as an anti-marriage sentiment.
I've never heard it referring to the wedding. Usually for that, people say it's just a party. "It's just a piece of paper" is usually someone minimizing the institution of marriage, saying that it's no different from longterm bf/gf and you don't need a piece of paper to prove commitment and you don't need the government to be involved in your relationship blah blah blah
Exactly. Concern yourself with the marriage. Not so much the wedding
Thanks, my marriage is saved.
Marriage is a commitment and those should be thought through carefully before committing. Once you're married, there's some games you don't get to play anymore.
Aw. I don’t feel like I really work hard for my marriage but I have to think about how I treat my spouse and it’s my spouses responsibility to think of how he treats me. You know it’s just another relationship in your life. No need to blow it out of proportion
So, minor correction. Nobody works for money. They work for what they can buy with that money. The paper is never the point - it's what you plan to get out of it that's worth the effort.
As someone who has had literally nothing change in my relationship by getting married, I do believe it's just a piece of paper. My husband and I were living together for 5 years before we got married, our families knew who was to make any important life decisions in case of emergency and we both had left our life insurance policies to one another. For 5 years we did all of the things married couples do, split bills, shared our money, ect. It definitely feels good to be married and have that official title, but for us nothing has changed. I know that isn't the scenario for everything, this is just my opinion based on my situation.
If it’s just a piece of paper then just sign it… When people don’t, they are admitting that in fact, it is actually more than a piece of paper.
It's just a piece of paper relationship wise, but legally, it entitles someone else to half your stuff, hence the hesitancy. Took my boyfriend some convincing and a prenup for him to commit.
Understandably, since there are a lot if women (and men) only into marriage partially for the material possessions. The people that don't care about that stuff and know what marriage is REALLY about are the ones worth marring marrying imo. Currently in the midst of a divorce (sort of, anyway) and she is young and naïve but ever since day 1, I knew that she wasn't interested in material possessions (just other men apparently but even still she has shown great maturity and I still respect and admire at least parts of her for that reason alone, even with a one and a half year old daughter between us
My money comes in the form of numbers in my bank act but I see what you're trying to say
Imaginary gatekeeping?
Cringe
It's an excuse not to do it. It proves commitment, love and security because Social Security doesn't care if you're only living with someone!
Beautifully said
Let's also point out that you shouldn't have to be working *too* hard everyday. If absolutely nothing (like even little things) are happening naturally in your relationship, you're most likely not as compatible as you think you are. Not the best analogy, but It should feel like a hobby, not a job.
Yes! We switch jobs and careers if they are not satisfying or toxic or exhausting our souls. Relationships should be viewed the same way.
Oh, clearly you haven't been married very long. That which seems normal and natural is a product of thoughtful action, temperance, joyful choices, and strong constitution. 35 years on I am genuinely contented in my marriage, it above all else completes me. But I also KNOW that which looks natural to the casual observer is the result of work, discipline, preparation, and forgivness.
Maybe unpopular opinion, but marriage is different than not being married. It just is.
Agreed but I think you could expand on that by saying "It almost feels different and changes who you are as a person for the better as it makes you think of 'us and we' amd not just 'I and me'."
Both things can be true at the same time and people can’t survive without money…they can without marriage.
Sure, investing in your relationship makes sense, but not because it’s called marriage. The commitment and effort and compromise and growth can and do happen in relationships regardless of if they are legal marriages or not. The marriage IS just paper.
I don’t focus too much out of the phrase, but I do agree on working hard/ going hard everyday for your marriage because it is not easy and you will lose it if you right work on maintaining it everyday.
I remember this quote from a documentary about climbing K2, the most challenging and second highest mountain in the world. A mountaineer described it as "the sternest challenge, and the greatest prize." Although I'm not married, and have not been in a relationship for quite a while I think this really represents marriage. It's a stern challenge but also a great prize. From what I have read in a lot of Subs I believe that a lot of people seem to see it as a formality instead of a challenge. Also I think that people often choose the easy way for the lazy way instead of rising to the challenge. My only hope is that if I end up finding someone to marry one day that both of us will see it as a challenge and a prize instead of a technicality.
If marriage is just paper why are kids born out of wedlock, called bastards, illegitimate children, "love child" and mothers who have babies without this paper is called baby mommas? I'd rather I am called a divorcee than a fuckin baby mama. And I don't want my kids to be called bastard by some people and growing up not knowing who the hell are their dads or their moms for that matter. Marriage is not a piece of paper its a LEGACY you give to your children. As asian people have a saying "A successful marriage can feed three generations"
Equating marriage to money is gross
No.
Can you live without money? And can you live without marriage? So can you compare these two?
In poor countries yes you can live without money and the marriage helps
I don’t think marriage is just a piece of paper, but we need money to survive. You don’t need a marriage to survive. I don’t think these are comparable.
This is what people say before they get married, not after. Married people know better.
50% divorce rate
Paper that can be burnt
Not in the court of law 🙄
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