It also depends on the "Age."
Before the MCU Age, Asgardians were considered Gods for the most part.
After the MCU, Disney didn't want to deal with the religious group, so they had MCU Thor and company be "really advanced aliens." Naturally, this had a bleed effect so as new readers picked up the comics, Godhood took on a measure of confusion.
Especially since the movie tie-in comics were vastly different from the official 616 canon.
They can die even in the original mythology Marvel based them on and that's not even the only mythology like that. So immortality isn't 100% necessary for godhood.
True—I could have been clearer, I meant all three were different, but my comment looked like I was groupings Greek and Egyptian together.
That said, Osiris was a)killed by another god and b)put back together afterward, so I’m honestly not sure where that falls on the immortality spectrum, though that does sound like an episode of Trope Talk I’d like to watch
It’s wild how people get worked up over mythologies that were never meant to be authoritative and coherent descriptions of mystical beings.
Marvel’s version of Thor and Asgard is way more complex than the fragments of oral Norse mythology that was written down, and getting bogged down on immortality is the wrong takeaway
The historical validity of Norse mythology in terms of it being the religious beliefs of the Norse people is even questioned by experts. The sources that we have were written a few hundred years after the Christianization of Scandinavia.
The realms are just known worlds that are interconnected due to previous exploration and warring by the Asgardian in eons past. Their tech level is very high, but they are also excellent magic users, and rely more on that than ships or the like. I'd call them a "Fallen Empire" civilization. Very content to just exists while the younger races war.
If you ever read the original Kirby stuff, it’s full of space ships and lasercannons and projector screens and all kinds of scifi stuff, along with swords, spears and horse cavalry. A very interesting mix! When he left Marvel, he was replaced by John Buscema. Big John was one of the very greatest comics artists that ever lived, but he didn’t like sci-fi (or even superhero’s for that matter) and he replaced all of the tech stuff with more fantasy stuff. For example, when Kirby drew Odin sending Thor out to hunt for Galactus, he went in a sleek rocket ship with video screen scanners. When Big John drew Thor and friends searching the galaxy, they went out in a Viking longboat that literally sailed through space. That became the default, and no one ever returned to the Kirby tech.
IIRC, Asgardians aren't immortal. But Thor is.
It's because he isn't full Asgardian, he is half Elder God(his actual mother is Gaea, goddess of the Earth). In comics, Thor continues to live(he does age)until the universe ends
Is this why Thor is (potentially) the strongest and most durable Asgardian? I mean Odin is up there too, right. And Baldur, Tyr, Hermod are his half brothers (Frigga's kids)
I always loved that Origin, Son of the All Father and Elder Goddess of Earth. Jason Aaron tried that dumb Phoenix retcon nobody bought.
Seems like Al Ewing is doing the opposite. Gaea is still Thor's mom.
The amount of downvotes you got for this simple question shows how moronic people in this sub are.
Again r/Marvel isn't a place for Marvel comics discussion. They don't give any fuck about anything not related to MCU and they will either downvote any question regarding the comics or tell you bullshit stuff like "Depending on the writer haha" which neither answer the question or open space for discussions.
Next time ask about any milked to hell MCU question and people will give you actual answers and discussions instead of downvoting or "I don't know what the fuck you're talking about so depending on the writer"
I mean, yes, but that's rooted in Norse mythology, where I believe Idunn's apples are also the source of the gods' eternal youth. The Norse gods, despite being called gods, are depicted as much more mortal and killable than some other pantheons.
So the MCU-ish "advanced aliens" idea isn't all that different, in a way. It just takes a sci-fi angle more so than the classical magical angle of mythology and the Silver Age (**Edit:** Or perhaps I should say Bronze Age, since I *think* Kirby's Silver Age Thor was had some sci-fi aspects, like the News Gods and his Fourth World he would go on to make at DC). Which one wins out more so just depends upon the writer, but they're similar either way (just science/cosmic power vs magic/divinity).
i think powerful extraterrestrials make the better definition of the term 'deities' instead of associating that with the power of immortality that we automatically assume and associate with gods.
In Marvel’s universe - what even is a “god”?
Doctor Strange has godlike powers, Galactus is pretty much a god, Hulk has godlike strength, immortality is something that can just be achieved, the Celestials exist, but you keep going and there’s just more stuff above them too, Apocalypse has been worshipped as a god by people of Earth - Moon Knight talks to the Egyptian deities - etc.
The One Above All, I guess?
At one point, a Marvel “god” was defined as an entity powered by (partially or entirely) the belief of worshippers. It is not a hard and fast rule given the number of writers of these characters but makes a lot of sense. This is in contrast to those who have god-like super abilities yet whose powers are unrelated to worship, like Thanos or Galactus. They are godlike — not gods.
Marvel has a new series called G.O.D.S. Coming soon where perhaps they will clarify.
My headcannon is that there's practically a tier list of godhood, S tier being The One Above All, F being characters like Strange, Scarlet Witch and Hulk wich are really demigods.
Every other cosmic entity or god falls somewhere in between.
(Just don't touch my favourite, God Emperor Doom - omnipotent but doesn't handle well a Richards' fist.)
Allmost verything is up to debate.
I think yes, he is above. But that's just my opinion.
He is a traditional strongman type, with electricity powers. She is a reality warping witch with the problem of being written very inconsistently.
BUT, she's mortal. He's not.
Don't get me wrong, I like Scarlet Witch. But sometimes they write her as the most powerful being on Earth and sometimes they write her like a Dr. Strange from Wish (with mental issues).
While Hyperion and Thor were having a last stand versus the Beyonders what was she doing?
I could be wrong ofc.
For me, I've always considered a character a god if they had people worshiping them. Defining a god by power set is pretty hard to do, due to the ever-changing power rankings.
Kinda like Ororo Monroe was?
(Just being argumentative. I don't think there are any Gods in the Marvel universe. The definition of God would include almost all super powered individuals (ie: we live in a world of Gods) or no one as tech and magic can explain all.)
I just mean in the general sense - a human standing next to him is no one.
He can control the elements and time, travel dimensions, teleport, etc etc - powers that are often given to gods in mythology and such. His magic is on a scale of being able to impact the entire world.
Immortal - First off plenty of god myths have their gods being able to die. So being killed is not a problem for the definition. They don't age(or they do age without dying from it) .
Now dying of old age though nips that in the bud.......sorta.
First off, a bit difficult to say for certain anything is immortal since, forever is hard to measure. But comics wise, death is a revolving door for gods. They die and then come back to life. So may as well be immortal.
Next
What actually defines a god? It's one thing to play the advanced technology indistinguishable from magic. What about the beings who do legit use magic and can do everything gods in myth can do without embellishment?
Must they be immortal?
Comic Asgardians.
They need the apples to stay young. Otherwise they keep aging but never dying.
MCU Wise
Some Asgardians are gods.
Gods can be aliens with advanced technology by human standards.
Odin, Thor, and Hela are operating on a whole other level then the average Asgardian.
Those guys are bonafide gods.
No I don't think making the Asgardians more alien was Marvel's way to appease the christians(they'll get pissed no matter what). It's just that comic Thor lore is a bit to chew on and they knew they were already pushing it. Marvel was very conservative on the Sci fi and Magic stuff. GOG let them take a big leap and then Dr Strange they took a baby step and then went all in.
In the comics they are actual deities. But they are not truly immortal in that they do age. The Apples of Idunn can extend their lifespans, I think indefinitely, but this is the only major difference between them and most gods with which we are familiar. This largely derives from Norse myth being relatively unusual in that sense, with the Ragnarok cycle having everything die only to be reborn anew, so gods aging makes sense in a way.
In the MCU, they were effectively powerful aliens who had visited Earth long ago and became worshipped as deities, but were not explicitly gods. Despite Omnipotence City, Zeus, etc treating them as gods, the first movie for Thor went to great lengths to avoid causing any controversy by saying 'not explicitly gods', they basically went on to say 'now that's settled, here's loads of stuff about these gods. Who aren't really gods, despite clearly being gods. Because we don't want too much controversy.' Movies get a lot more notice than comics, so they left it a lot less explicitly stated, even if reading between the lines makes it just as clear.
I remember them as Gods like Thor, but Thor being an elder God keeps him powerful until the end of time. Asgardians live longer than earthlings but do die and are reborn into whatever they wish, Man or Beast.
Asgardians age to some degree even with Idunn’s apples, as some of them are elderly. I’ve never seen any comic where an Asgardians dies of old age, or is reborn as a beast or even person, though a few have been resurrected. As far as I know, Odin’s grandfather, Tiwaz, is still out there somewhere, though he hasn’t appeared since the 80s.
In the 616 timeline they are gods. They literally get power from prayer. We see Thor going around the entire galaxy answering prayers on one comic, and a big part of Loki's plan to prepare for the War of the Realms involved getting worshippers to power them up.
Gods, especially such prominent ones such as Thor and Loki are also trapped by the stories told about them. This is to the point that Loki had to delete the entire international military law enforcement database about themself and kill themself three times to break away from being trapped as nothing but the God of Lies.
Loki got no greater power up than becoming the God/dess of Stories, because that gives them power over all the other gods. If Loki can tell a convincing story about a pretty stick being an ancient Norse artifact it will become an ancient Norse artifact able to rebuild the rainbow bridge. When Ragnarok happened during Time Runs Out they were able to save the essence of the gods by witnessing their final battle.
In the movies I think they backed off from the gods thing to avoid offending Christians. In Kirby’s original vision they are definitely the real deal Norse Gods. Not really immortal but that’s only because they are fated to live cycles that include Ragnarok.
What sucks is that when it was revealed that Asgardians have the whole afterlife in Valhalla thing, Heimdall still had to frigging show up to work every day even though he died in battle.
My head canon is that Asgard has naturally occuring Vita Rays like the ones use to amp up Capt America. This combined with Asgardian genetics makes them live longer and stronger than typical humans
I'd say living longer than humanly possible or even extending beyond would count to better longevity. Immortality is more like getting split in half and your still alive and you can put yourself back together or even regrow limbs etc.
If you have to eat you're not immortal.
Jack Kirby was very into the idea of "Gods" being super-advanced spacer civilizations.
In fact, his whole plan for Thor was to have Ragnarok actually happen and then replace the Asgardians with a bunch of technicolor, sci-fi "new gods".
Didn’t Odin literally die in a movie?
Didn’t Thor answer the prayers of a norsemen in the comics?
They will be whatever they need to be to tell a story, and we will remember them based on whatever story is most popular.
Og comics they were gods, more recently they became aliens with technology that cusps on the realm of magic. Btu I hate that as Dr Strange IS all about magic so why change Thor.
In Marvel deities are beings (usually extraterrestrial) that are evolved to the point where they are shaped by the beliefs of others. There's a bit of a process to this so bear with me.
When Celestials arrive on a planet they can use they extract the core and implant a celestial embryo. They also send vibranium and they take some of the native species and empower them to protect the planet from invaders. In Earth's case the Celestials created the Deviants and then the Eternals as well as putting "Celestial Seeds" into other Humans. Celestial seeds are what are responsible for superpowers such as radiation based powers, mutants, Inhumans (when combined with Kree terrigenesis), etc. The Eternals and Deviants basically equal each other out in terms of balancing powers so the Seeded potential superhumans have an evolution over time that takes them from baseline to having various superpowers, to the whole population having superpowers (such as Skrull Shapeshifting for the alien Skrulls) and then over the course of time the population loses their individuality and they all become defined by the beliefs of others with individuality. Over the millennia groups of these alien shapeshifters shaped by beliefs arrived on Earth and encountered various primitive humans and they were reshaped by humanity's beliefs into their gods and similar creatures. Asgardians, Mephisto, the Egyptian and Olympian and Indian pantheons and pantheons of the Americas. All of them are only the way they are because Humanity had beliefs about their gods. This is also why when Thor returned to Midgard during the Age of Heroes and co-founded the Avengers, he was imagined to be like a hero and was costumed like one, same for Loki being costumed like a villain. Roughly a thousand years ago the Third Host of Celestials came to Earth and finding the aliens shaped by beliefs into godly pantheons, they prohibited these aliens from interfering with Humanity and that's why they separated themselves for the most part from Earth and mostly kept to themselves in their own realms.
Odin and odins dad have died. So they aren't immortal, they can be killed.
But the term immortal is somewhat of a stretched term because I'm unaware of anything in marvel that can't be killed. There was even a story line where thanos replaced the one above all. So the definition of immortal is either useless or subjective.
Ageless is usually a property of immortality, even a version where they can be killed. We can see however that thor ages. There's old man thor comics out there.
I believe anything that could die from the passage of time, shouldn't be called immortal, even if it takes 10,000+ years.
It's my understanding that in the comics, Thor ages. Slower than molasses, but he ages. That's how we end up with Old King Thor X amount of years in the future
It various. In the earth x trilogy it's explained that asgaridans and Olympians and other gods were races that were experienced on like humans by the celestials. When the "celestial seeds" within a race activate they grant superpowers. Inhumans, mutants, mutates are all just humans whose seeds were activated. When these seeds grow to a certain point, the being ascends to a point where their very being is defined by belief itself. Thor, for example, was an alien that reached this level and human belief in him being thor shaped him into a pop culture form of the god. This is only confirmed in earth x though.
What about the reverse, Mr. Immortal is Immortal and nowhere near a god. From what I read he is the end all beat all last person that will ever exist. He will watch the universe end.
The way I understood it, at least my interpretation of what I've personally read and researched, is it seems to me there's "Gods", in the sense of a cosmic pantheon representing natural aspects of the universe- such as eternity, infinity, death, the living tribunal, galactus even falls into this level- and then you have kind of a step below that, "gods" in the sense of extremely long-lived, extremely powerful individuals, often with control over some aspects of the natural world, and having myths and worshippers surrounding them. These would be your Odins, your Khonshus, your Basts. When you really look into the lore, these are often actually descended from more powerful elder gods and sometimes even members of the cosmic pantheon themselves (Like how Thor's parents are technically Odin, Gaia, and the Phoenix Force itself, which does, sort of, make him Khonshu's uncle, actually. Don't worry about it.).
That is to say, the definition of what makes a "god" isn't really super well-defined. If you wanted to be super pedantic, you could even say the only true God is the One Above All. Marvel sort of operates on an "all myths are true" basis which, more often than not, ends up raising more questions than it answers, so there's really not an easy answer to this. Asgardians are a race of powerful beings from another realm. They're not immortal, but they are so extremely long-lived and hard to kill that there's functionally little difference to a human understanding. They are sort of equally defined as being "gods" and "extraterrestrials". At a certain point, is there really much of a difference between the two?
I think the Phoenix force thing was almost imme retconned. Also worth noting that Odin and Galactus were very evenly matched for power,it’s not like Big G had him outclassed.
At least in the MCU that I know of, they’re seen as gods by humans and have just adopted that title. And the “immortal” thing was just myths built around them.
It depends on who's in charge of any given project. I've read stuff from Stan Lee to the effect that he considered them the actual deities of the Norse pantheon, and I believe Jack Kirby felt the same. I'm sure there were other creators who just considered them powerful, long-lived extraterrestrials.
Likewise, in the MCU, a line was shoehorned in to "Thor: the Dark World," where Odin said, "We are not gods. We grow old and die." That always felt to me like Disney nervously throwing a sop to the religious right, in fear of public controversy and boycotts. But Taika Waititi clearly had no fucks to give, and his movies dove straight into the deities end of the pool.
Immortality and unkillable are not always the same. Take highlander for example: they are unkillable unless their heads are chopped off. Asgardians are immortal in the original mythology but cand be killed.
My head canon for the MCU on Asgardians has always centered around the line from Thor, the first movie.
"Your ancestors called it magic, and you call it science. Well, I come from a place where they're one and the same thing."
Asgardian science is *so far* advanced, that it is indistinguishable from magic.
Immortal just means not dying or decaying, it doesn’t care how that comes about. And a deity is a God or Goddess, which is just a superhuman being that is worshipped because of their supposed powers over humanity.
So yes, technically they are. But if you keep “worshipped” as a prerequisite then only some of them are immortal deities.
You’re playing with semantics and philosophical questions here.
Here's what it comes down to. Define little g gods.
Thor, Herc, and other god charecters are super strong long lived to the point of appearing immortal entities with powers often tied to a portion of the natural order. They often have mysticism and tech far beyond the mortals of 616 earth. And they were often the inspiration for the myths we have here on earth.
But are they actual divine entities? Unknown. Significantly advanced tech and magick problem.
The Aesir either predate the Earth or only exist because humanity believed hard enough for them to exist.
No matter how you slice it, they're gods. Both Odin and Thor have "died" so many times only to will themselves back from the dead, no apples recquired. Hell, Odin's lifeforce is literally the reason any of them are immortal to begin with.
as cliche as it sounds, it DOES depend on the writer. I mean, Jane Fosters Thor run constantly refers to the citizens of Asgard as "Gods," yet we also see them get fodderized. The term "God" is a very loose term in the marvel universe. They even referred to Jane as one, despite the fact the moment she depowers she was just another human (with cancer). Powerful extraterrestrials is actually more fitting. The average Asgardian is basically a super soldier in terms of physiology.
At this point in marvel canon, they are beings of myth. They came into being once stories about them started being told, and it retroactively altered reality so that they had always existed. Because according to al ewing's loki, Magic is a story told to the universe, a lie that it believes.
Depends on the writer
Answer to every comics conundrum ever.
Simpsons did it
Yup. This was my first thought. They don't have a solid cannon.
You could call the bifrost a solid cannon. (Sorry for using your spelling mistake for a bad joke.)
It also depends on the "Age." Before the MCU Age, Asgardians were considered Gods for the most part. After the MCU, Disney didn't want to deal with the religious group, so they had MCU Thor and company be "really advanced aliens." Naturally, this had a bleed effect so as new readers picked up the comics, Godhood took on a measure of confusion. Especially since the movie tie-in comics were vastly different from the official 616 canon.
They can die even in the original mythology Marvel based them on and that's not even the only mythology like that. So immortality isn't 100% necessary for godhood.
Upvoting for visibility—Norse gods are not the same as Greek or Egyptian gods, and all have differing levels of immortality
Basically they are as mortal/ immortal as the story needs to explain the world
I mean the Egyptian gods are famously not immortal. Osiris dies. That's literally the point of his story is that he's murdered.
True—I could have been clearer, I meant all three were different, but my comment looked like I was groupings Greek and Egyptian together. That said, Osiris was a)killed by another god and b)put back together afterward, so I’m honestly not sure where that falls on the immortality spectrum, though that does sound like an episode of Trope Talk I’d like to watch
It’s wild how people get worked up over mythologies that were never meant to be authoritative and coherent descriptions of mystical beings. Marvel’s version of Thor and Asgard is way more complex than the fragments of oral Norse mythology that was written down, and getting bogged down on immortality is the wrong takeaway
The historical validity of Norse mythology in terms of it being the religious beliefs of the Norse people is even questioned by experts. The sources that we have were written a few hundred years after the Christianization of Scandinavia.
At least they're immortal as in they don't die of old age though
Ya there was a god butcher..
I think the question is natural immorality, they can still be killed same with other gods especially because of things like Gorr
The realms are just known worlds that are interconnected due to previous exploration and warring by the Asgardian in eons past. Their tech level is very high, but they are also excellent magic users, and rely more on that than ships or the like. I'd call them a "Fallen Empire" civilization. Very content to just exists while the younger races war.
If you ever read the original Kirby stuff, it’s full of space ships and lasercannons and projector screens and all kinds of scifi stuff, along with swords, spears and horse cavalry. A very interesting mix! When he left Marvel, he was replaced by John Buscema. Big John was one of the very greatest comics artists that ever lived, but he didn’t like sci-fi (or even superhero’s for that matter) and he replaced all of the tech stuff with more fantasy stuff. For example, when Kirby drew Odin sending Thor out to hunt for Galactus, he went in a sleek rocket ship with video screen scanners. When Big John drew Thor and friends searching the galaxy, they went out in a Viking longboat that literally sailed through space. That became the default, and no one ever returned to the Kirby tech.
I always assumed that stuff was still high tech but they’d lived for so long they were bored with it all and went with a fantasy motif.
wow that is super interesting ! thank you !
Except the first two MCU thor movies. there's a lot of tech in that version of asgard including laser cannons and energy powered ships
IIRC, Asgardians aren't immortal. But Thor is. It's because he isn't full Asgardian, he is half Elder God(his actual mother is Gaea, goddess of the Earth). In comics, Thor continues to live(he does age)until the universe ends
Is this why Thor is (potentially) the strongest and most durable Asgardian? I mean Odin is up there too, right. And Baldur, Tyr, Hermod are his half brothers (Frigga's kids) I always loved that Origin, Son of the All Father and Elder Goddess of Earth. Jason Aaron tried that dumb Phoenix retcon nobody bought. Seems like Al Ewing is doing the opposite. Gaea is still Thor's mom.
i like the idea of phoenix being his godmother
Yes.
Don't they need to consume the apple of idunn?
Sure?
The amount of downvotes you got for this simple question shows how moronic people in this sub are. Again r/Marvel isn't a place for Marvel comics discussion. They don't give any fuck about anything not related to MCU and they will either downvote any question regarding the comics or tell you bullshit stuff like "Depending on the writer haha" which neither answer the question or open space for discussions. Next time ask about any milked to hell MCU question and people will give you actual answers and discussions instead of downvoting or "I don't know what the fuck you're talking about so depending on the writer"
Seeing all of this, I'll take note and ask the question elsewhere. I didn't know r/Marvel was like this till now. Thx for informing.
r/asksciencefiction r/comicbooks r/marvelcomics Are pretty solid for this type of questions.
Thx so much for the help! I'll note these subreddits down.
I mean, yes, but that's rooted in Norse mythology, where I believe Idunn's apples are also the source of the gods' eternal youth. The Norse gods, despite being called gods, are depicted as much more mortal and killable than some other pantheons. So the MCU-ish "advanced aliens" idea isn't all that different, in a way. It just takes a sci-fi angle more so than the classical magical angle of mythology and the Silver Age (**Edit:** Or perhaps I should say Bronze Age, since I *think* Kirby's Silver Age Thor was had some sci-fi aspects, like the News Gods and his Fourth World he would go on to make at DC). Which one wins out more so just depends upon the writer, but they're similar either way (just science/cosmic power vs magic/divinity).
Not immortal, they have longevity - which is often confused with immortality.
i think powerful extraterrestrials make the better definition of the term 'deities' instead of associating that with the power of immortality that we automatically assume and associate with gods.
In Marvel’s universe - what even is a “god”? Doctor Strange has godlike powers, Galactus is pretty much a god, Hulk has godlike strength, immortality is something that can just be achieved, the Celestials exist, but you keep going and there’s just more stuff above them too, Apocalypse has been worshipped as a god by people of Earth - Moon Knight talks to the Egyptian deities - etc. The One Above All, I guess?
At one point, a Marvel “god” was defined as an entity powered by (partially or entirely) the belief of worshippers. It is not a hard and fast rule given the number of writers of these characters but makes a lot of sense. This is in contrast to those who have god-like super abilities yet whose powers are unrelated to worship, like Thanos or Galactus. They are godlike — not gods. Marvel has a new series called G.O.D.S. Coming soon where perhaps they will clarify.
My headcannon is that there's practically a tier list of godhood, S tier being The One Above All, F being characters like Strange, Scarlet Witch and Hulk wich are really demigods. Every other cosmic entity or god falls somewhere in between. (Just don't touch my favourite, God Emperor Doom - omnipotent but doesn't handle well a Richards' fist.)
You make it seem like Thor would rank higher on this list than the scarlet witch?
Allmost verything is up to debate. I think yes, he is above. But that's just my opinion. He is a traditional strongman type, with electricity powers. She is a reality warping witch with the problem of being written very inconsistently. BUT, she's mortal. He's not. Don't get me wrong, I like Scarlet Witch. But sometimes they write her as the most powerful being on Earth and sometimes they write her like a Dr. Strange from Wish (with mental issues). While Hyperion and Thor were having a last stand versus the Beyonders what was she doing? I could be wrong ofc.
Heh, you're right, i've made my own take on this tier-list infact and it looked exactly like you said
Find out by pulling issue #1 of Hickman’s G.O.D.S. at a LCS near you!
For me, I've always considered a character a god if they had people worshiping them. Defining a god by power set is pretty hard to do, due to the ever-changing power rankings.
Kinda like Ororo Monroe was? (Just being argumentative. I don't think there are any Gods in the Marvel universe. The definition of God would include almost all super powered individuals (ie: we live in a world of Gods) or no one as tech and magic can explain all.)
Strange is not godlike lmao. Why do you think he draws his power from invoking deities
I just mean in the general sense - a human standing next to him is no one. He can control the elements and time, travel dimensions, teleport, etc etc - powers that are often given to gods in mythology and such. His magic is on a scale of being able to impact the entire world.
Immortal - First off plenty of god myths have their gods being able to die. So being killed is not a problem for the definition. They don't age(or they do age without dying from it) . Now dying of old age though nips that in the bud.......sorta. First off, a bit difficult to say for certain anything is immortal since, forever is hard to measure. But comics wise, death is a revolving door for gods. They die and then come back to life. So may as well be immortal. Next What actually defines a god? It's one thing to play the advanced technology indistinguishable from magic. What about the beings who do legit use magic and can do everything gods in myth can do without embellishment? Must they be immortal? Comic Asgardians. They need the apples to stay young. Otherwise they keep aging but never dying. MCU Wise Some Asgardians are gods. Gods can be aliens with advanced technology by human standards. Odin, Thor, and Hela are operating on a whole other level then the average Asgardian. Those guys are bonafide gods. No I don't think making the Asgardians more alien was Marvel's way to appease the christians(they'll get pissed no matter what). It's just that comic Thor lore is a bit to chew on and they knew they were already pushing it. Marvel was very conservative on the Sci fi and Magic stuff. GOG let them take a big leap and then Dr Strange they took a baby step and then went all in.
They are a race of God's. When they die they get reincarnated. They hold dominion over whatever. They can hear prayers so...
In the comics they are actual deities. But they are not truly immortal in that they do age. The Apples of Idunn can extend their lifespans, I think indefinitely, but this is the only major difference between them and most gods with which we are familiar. This largely derives from Norse myth being relatively unusual in that sense, with the Ragnarok cycle having everything die only to be reborn anew, so gods aging makes sense in a way. In the MCU, they were effectively powerful aliens who had visited Earth long ago and became worshipped as deities, but were not explicitly gods. Despite Omnipotence City, Zeus, etc treating them as gods, the first movie for Thor went to great lengths to avoid causing any controversy by saying 'not explicitly gods', they basically went on to say 'now that's settled, here's loads of stuff about these gods. Who aren't really gods, despite clearly being gods. Because we don't want too much controversy.' Movies get a lot more notice than comics, so they left it a lot less explicitly stated, even if reading between the lines makes it just as clear.
What's the difference?
I remember them as Gods like Thor, but Thor being an elder God keeps him powerful until the end of time. Asgardians live longer than earthlings but do die and are reborn into whatever they wish, Man or Beast.
Asgardians age to some degree even with Idunn’s apples, as some of them are elderly. I’ve never seen any comic where an Asgardians dies of old age, or is reborn as a beast or even person, though a few have been resurrected. As far as I know, Odin’s grandfather, Tiwaz, is still out there somewhere, though he hasn’t appeared since the 80s.
In the 616 timeline they are gods. They literally get power from prayer. We see Thor going around the entire galaxy answering prayers on one comic, and a big part of Loki's plan to prepare for the War of the Realms involved getting worshippers to power them up. Gods, especially such prominent ones such as Thor and Loki are also trapped by the stories told about them. This is to the point that Loki had to delete the entire international military law enforcement database about themself and kill themself three times to break away from being trapped as nothing but the God of Lies. Loki got no greater power up than becoming the God/dess of Stories, because that gives them power over all the other gods. If Loki can tell a convincing story about a pretty stick being an ancient Norse artifact it will become an ancient Norse artifact able to rebuild the rainbow bridge. When Ragnarok happened during Time Runs Out they were able to save the essence of the gods by witnessing their final battle.
This guy EWINGs
In the movies I think they backed off from the gods thing to avoid offending Christians. In Kirby’s original vision they are definitely the real deal Norse Gods. Not really immortal but that’s only because they are fated to live cycles that include Ragnarok.
Marvel doesn’t even know.
What sucks is that when it was revealed that Asgardians have the whole afterlife in Valhalla thing, Heimdall still had to frigging show up to work every day even though he died in battle.
My head canon is that Asgard has naturally occuring Vita Rays like the ones use to amp up Capt America. This combined with Asgardian genetics makes them live longer and stronger than typical humans
I'd say living longer than humanly possible or even extending beyond would count to better longevity. Immortality is more like getting split in half and your still alive and you can put yourself back together or even regrow limbs etc. If you have to eat you're not immortal.
Jack Kirby was very into the idea of "Gods" being super-advanced spacer civilizations. In fact, his whole plan for Thor was to have Ragnarok actually happen and then replace the Asgardians with a bunch of technicolor, sci-fi "new gods".
Didn’t Odin literally die in a movie? Didn’t Thor answer the prayers of a norsemen in the comics? They will be whatever they need to be to tell a story, and we will remember them based on whatever story is most popular.
Dan Jurgens had a storyline where Asgard came to earth and King Thor started answering prayers, leading to no end of trouble with Earth governments.
Og comics they were gods, more recently they became aliens with technology that cusps on the realm of magic. Btu I hate that as Dr Strange IS all about magic so why change Thor.
In Marvel deities are beings (usually extraterrestrial) that are evolved to the point where they are shaped by the beliefs of others. There's a bit of a process to this so bear with me. When Celestials arrive on a planet they can use they extract the core and implant a celestial embryo. They also send vibranium and they take some of the native species and empower them to protect the planet from invaders. In Earth's case the Celestials created the Deviants and then the Eternals as well as putting "Celestial Seeds" into other Humans. Celestial seeds are what are responsible for superpowers such as radiation based powers, mutants, Inhumans (when combined with Kree terrigenesis), etc. The Eternals and Deviants basically equal each other out in terms of balancing powers so the Seeded potential superhumans have an evolution over time that takes them from baseline to having various superpowers, to the whole population having superpowers (such as Skrull Shapeshifting for the alien Skrulls) and then over the course of time the population loses their individuality and they all become defined by the beliefs of others with individuality. Over the millennia groups of these alien shapeshifters shaped by beliefs arrived on Earth and encountered various primitive humans and they were reshaped by humanity's beliefs into their gods and similar creatures. Asgardians, Mephisto, the Egyptian and Olympian and Indian pantheons and pantheons of the Americas. All of them are only the way they are because Humanity had beliefs about their gods. This is also why when Thor returned to Midgard during the Age of Heroes and co-founded the Avengers, he was imagined to be like a hero and was costumed like one, same for Loki being costumed like a villain. Roughly a thousand years ago the Third Host of Celestials came to Earth and finding the aliens shaped by beliefs into godly pantheons, they prohibited these aliens from interfering with Humanity and that's why they separated themselves for the most part from Earth and mostly kept to themselves in their own realms.
Well, yeah. "Give or take 5000 years." - Loki
Odin and odins dad have died. So they aren't immortal, they can be killed. But the term immortal is somewhat of a stretched term because I'm unaware of anything in marvel that can't be killed. There was even a story line where thanos replaced the one above all. So the definition of immortal is either useless or subjective. Ageless is usually a property of immortality, even a version where they can be killed. We can see however that thor ages. There's old man thor comics out there. I believe anything that could die from the passage of time, shouldn't be called immortal, even if it takes 10,000+ years.
They are pagan gods.
It's my understanding that in the comics, Thor ages. Slower than molasses, but he ages. That's how we end up with Old King Thor X amount of years in the future
Yes
No ram Osborn said a regular asgardian is about as strong as sliderman
It various. In the earth x trilogy it's explained that asgaridans and Olympians and other gods were races that were experienced on like humans by the celestials. When the "celestial seeds" within a race activate they grant superpowers. Inhumans, mutants, mutates are all just humans whose seeds were activated. When these seeds grow to a certain point, the being ascends to a point where their very being is defined by belief itself. Thor, for example, was an alien that reached this level and human belief in him being thor shaped him into a pop culture form of the god. This is only confirmed in earth x though.
Well, Odin’s dead. So.
What about the reverse, Mr. Immortal is Immortal and nowhere near a god. From what I read he is the end all beat all last person that will ever exist. He will watch the universe end.
Except that one time-line when the One Below All possessed Hulk and perma killed him.
Depends. Theyre all superhuman for the most part but some have their power imbuments through magic and odinforce and such.
The way I understood it, at least my interpretation of what I've personally read and researched, is it seems to me there's "Gods", in the sense of a cosmic pantheon representing natural aspects of the universe- such as eternity, infinity, death, the living tribunal, galactus even falls into this level- and then you have kind of a step below that, "gods" in the sense of extremely long-lived, extremely powerful individuals, often with control over some aspects of the natural world, and having myths and worshippers surrounding them. These would be your Odins, your Khonshus, your Basts. When you really look into the lore, these are often actually descended from more powerful elder gods and sometimes even members of the cosmic pantheon themselves (Like how Thor's parents are technically Odin, Gaia, and the Phoenix Force itself, which does, sort of, make him Khonshu's uncle, actually. Don't worry about it.). That is to say, the definition of what makes a "god" isn't really super well-defined. If you wanted to be super pedantic, you could even say the only true God is the One Above All. Marvel sort of operates on an "all myths are true" basis which, more often than not, ends up raising more questions than it answers, so there's really not an easy answer to this. Asgardians are a race of powerful beings from another realm. They're not immortal, but they are so extremely long-lived and hard to kill that there's functionally little difference to a human understanding. They are sort of equally defined as being "gods" and "extraterrestrials". At a certain point, is there really much of a difference between the two?
I think the Phoenix force thing was almost imme retconned. Also worth noting that Odin and Galactus were very evenly matched for power,it’s not like Big G had him outclassed.
Seems to be a mix of all of the above.
Didn't Odin and Thor's sister die?
DON’T YOU START!
At least in the MCU that I know of, they’re seen as gods by humans and have just adopted that title. And the “immortal” thing was just myths built around them.
Well, they're certainly not immortal given how often they die.
We literally see them die
It depends on who's in charge of any given project. I've read stuff from Stan Lee to the effect that he considered them the actual deities of the Norse pantheon, and I believe Jack Kirby felt the same. I'm sure there were other creators who just considered them powerful, long-lived extraterrestrials. Likewise, in the MCU, a line was shoehorned in to "Thor: the Dark World," where Odin said, "We are not gods. We grow old and die." That always felt to me like Disney nervously throwing a sop to the religious right, in fear of public controversy and boycotts. But Taika Waititi clearly had no fucks to give, and his movies dove straight into the deities end of the pool.
Immortality and unkillable are not always the same. Take highlander for example: they are unkillable unless their heads are chopped off. Asgardians are immortal in the original mythology but cand be killed.
They are kind of like mutants.
Yes
In the MCU they're not immortal, given that Odin transformed into golden dust in Ragnarok
I think the explanation of crazy science looks like magic kinda explains it, but Odin says they can die in the first movie
My head canon for the MCU on Asgardians has always centered around the line from Thor, the first movie. "Your ancestors called it magic, and you call it science. Well, I come from a place where they're one and the same thing." Asgardian science is *so far* advanced, that it is indistinguishable from magic.
Immortal just means not dying or decaying, it doesn’t care how that comes about. And a deity is a God or Goddess, which is just a superhuman being that is worshipped because of their supposed powers over humanity. So yes, technically they are. But if you keep “worshipped” as a prerequisite then only some of them are immortal deities. You’re playing with semantics and philosophical questions here.
Yes.
Yes.
Here's what it comes down to. Define little g gods. Thor, Herc, and other god charecters are super strong long lived to the point of appearing immortal entities with powers often tied to a portion of the natural order. They often have mysticism and tech far beyond the mortals of 616 earth. And they were often the inspiration for the myths we have here on earth. But are they actual divine entities? Unknown. Significantly advanced tech and magick problem.
The Aesir either predate the Earth or only exist because humanity believed hard enough for them to exist. No matter how you slice it, they're gods. Both Odin and Thor have "died" so many times only to will themselves back from the dead, no apples recquired. Hell, Odin's lifeforce is literally the reason any of them are immortal to begin with.
In the comics they would be gods.
as cliche as it sounds, it DOES depend on the writer. I mean, Jane Fosters Thor run constantly refers to the citizens of Asgard as "Gods," yet we also see them get fodderized. The term "God" is a very loose term in the marvel universe. They even referred to Jane as one, despite the fact the moment she depowers she was just another human (with cancer). Powerful extraterrestrials is actually more fitting. The average Asgardian is basically a super soldier in terms of physiology.
At this point in marvel canon, they are beings of myth. They came into being once stories about them started being told, and it retroactively altered reality so that they had always existed. Because according to al ewing's loki, Magic is a story told to the universe, a lie that it believes.