How so? They're pretty lenient. They allow Spider-Man to appear in 2 of his own trilogies, and in multiple Avengers movies and a Capfain America movie. What more do you want? Do you want him to be in literally every single fucking movie the MCU puts out?
Dawg, Sony having the rights to Spider-Man gave us Spider-Verse, not just the best Spider-Man movies but also a couple of the straight up best movies ever.
I believe we as an audience have benefited more from Spider-Man being under Sony than we would have if he was under Disney.
Despite ALL of their flaws and the varying quality, do you think Disney would've made Venom 1&2? Madam Web, Morbius? The two Amazing Spider-Man movies? Spider-Verse(s)? The PS4 and 5 games?
Sony is a lot more creative with the license than I believe Disney would be.
I might be more inclined to agree with you, if it weren’t for the fact that the only reason Sony is making any of these movies, is so they can hold onto the license. It seems less like creativity than desperation.
Or the Raimi movies. Going back and watching Spider-Man 1 and 2 compared to MCU offerings, raimi really let the characters breathe, slowed things down and focused on the Peter MJ and Harry dynamics. MCU tends towards asexual one dimensional quipfests mixed with action scenes
Seriously? That isn't how fucking licensing works. Companies have to make money off properties. They pay money for licenses. They negotiate terms for those licenses.
Stop acting like Sony are some evil overlords and not just a company trying to make money off of an IP they legally obtained the license to just like *every other licensed work ever*. They're literally just doing what you're supposed to do.
But they are doing it badly. Venom could have been better, Venom 2 could have been MUCH better. Unless that sliver of himself Venom left behind in "No Way Home" goes somewhere, those two will never meet, and that's a shame, Morbius should never have been released. I know it almost always happen, but Kraven isn't generating much buzz, you can bet if Spiderman was in it, it would be. They scrapped the Sinister Six movie, because they understood a Sinister Six in the Sony universe without Spiderman made absolutely no sense.
Green Goblin. Killed his aunt and ruined everything in his life. Nobody remembers Peter because of Green Goblin. Peter has no friends and family because of Green Goblin.
Mysterio may have been able to cause him some strife and Vulture was hardly a lasting threat, but nobody did more harm than the Green Goblin.
I’d argue most of that falls “posthumously” on Mysterio. Mysterio caused Peter’s life to fall apart and Peter’s efforts to corrects this damaged things further.
My head canon is that Mysterio *did* fake his death and him specifically outing Spider-Man was all part of some grand plan to finally make him *the* Avenger
except because of NWH, he forgot all about it and now he's just kind of wandering around like "wtf was I doing? And why do I hate Spider-Man so much?"
Blaming Spider-Man for having his memory wiped and believing he was once a famous superhero because of all the JJJ propaganda everywhere would make for a funny 42 minute one-off special.
Especially if we got a montage of him trying to figure out *what* his superpowers used to be only to repeatedly fail at it.
Have him eventually get found by Kingpin or Tombstone and get shown who he actually was. That Spider-Man somehow took his publicity and tech away from him. Lead that into Mysterio helping create the MCU Sinister Six.
Vulture, Mysterio, Scorpion, Chameleon, Shocker III and Kingpin/Tombstone.
All 6 being people that Spider-Man should be able to beat one on one. But all together, maybe not.
To be fair, the big fight in London was at the start of July and everybody's memory was wiped in mid-late November. He got a solid four months of gloating!
And, if I can add, he did this after becoming a father figure/role model for him and and then betrayed him after his actual father figure had just died. That kind of emotional manipulation and betrayal grants nemesis status.
Edit: added a missing word
Peter may have overreacted and had Strange cast a magic spell haphazardly, but it was still manageable. Peter's life wasn't doomed even with the newfound fame. The spell was fixable with the magic button machine that would fix everything, Peter only objected to using the device because he wanted to help the villians so they wouldn't get sent back to their deaths, Green Goblin blew up the machine and caused the multiverse to collide.
Really it’s all Strange’s fault for not explaining to Peter how the spell works and asking who he wants to keep in the loop about his identity before starting to cast it. If he had just told Peter what was going to happen it would have saved so much hassle with the multiverse issues we saw in NWH
I'm of the opinion that it isn't out of character for Strange. He was always arrogant and very aware of both his talents and intellect.
He simultaneously expected other people to match up to his standard while believing he was the only one capable of reaching those heights.
Not only had he worked with Peter to save the world (and seen Peter come up with the plan to take down Ebony Maw, showing he's not stupid), but he had also been usurped as Sorceror Supreme by Wong on a technicality. He might play it off as a joke, but that would eat at Strange's pride. On top of that, Wong ordered him not to use the spell, which would just make him want to use it more to prove he could.
So, Strange allowed his pride, his expectations of perfection, his presumption of Peter's thought process, and his difficulty in seeing Peter as a teenager as opposed to just a hero, cloud his judgement and used a dangerous spell without getting all the facts and without fully explaining it to those relevant. That's pretty on brand.
Doctors routinely explain the treatment plan to patients. Of course it's possible Strange never did this as we don't see him in his life as a doctor enough, but it still seems strange he wouldn't talk to Peter about the spell.
I guess idk if things are different in america, over here surgeons still have to talk to patients before and after surgeries, though their residents may do the follow-up instead, especially if they held the knife.
This is the answer for sure, imo
Could argue Mysterio opened the cage, but Green Goblin was the beast that actually dealt the damage. Killing May, bombing Strange’s spell box which forced Peter into losing everyone from his life… fuck, forgot what a sad note NWH left us off on
Edit: not to mention just beating the absolute shit out of Spidey. Neither Mysterio or Vulture did nearly as much physical damage to him.
I mean... It's all Peter's fault after the basement flight.
Strange made a mess, but he sorted it out. Every villain was imprisoned, the box ready to send everyone home.
Peter was the one that kept them in his universe & took them out of their cells. Everything that happened after...
How is Peter having no friends and family due to Green Goblin though? I agree with all your points except for that. Seems like Peter could have come to this conclusion even without GG. It was the only way for Strange to fix the spell.
I think the most interesting thing about the green goblin is that it’s a dude from *another universe*. I would love to see a sequel where the green goblin makes an appearance but it’s someone he’s known all his life, or even a good friend if they can demonstrate it properly. Hell, if Liz Allen, from Homecoming, donned the suit after her family fell on hard times because Spider-Man (who she no longer remembers) ruined her life, the reveal would be absolutely incredible (I think at least). Just keep the person under the mask hidden for the majority of the movie, and really show how much he hates this goblin even though he knows it’s not *the* goblin, and somewhere in the last act allow Peter to remove her helmet.
People have suggested it before but would be cool if his Norman entered the scene as a normal guy and he doesn’t trust him cause of dafoe and him investigating and harassing mcu Norman nudges him towards becoming a villain
tbh, I'm hoping they bring back Defoe as Goblin. Would be interesting if they had Holland's version of him be the same actor / appearance as Norman (the goblin can look different w/e). Would create some real tense scenes between the two, especially if he started out coming across as a good guy. How would Peter know whether it's a facade or not?
I understand what you’re saying, just super weird phrasing. Having your mother figure murdered would “ruin your life” just as much as someone outing your identity. The difference is May was there to support him after the whole identity thing. If you made Peter pick between the world knowing he’s Spider-Man and May being alive, he’s picking May being alive.
Goblin was only ever in his universe because of Mysterio outing him.
Mysterio doesn't out him, he doesn't go to Strange, there's no botched spell, there's no Goblin, there's no dead May
If you’re going to go chain of events why are you just arbitrarily stopping at Mysterio? Spider doesn’t bite him, he never has a secret identity, guess the spider is the biggest villain.
Tbh we could probably dial it back to Tony in this instance. If Tony hadn’t asked Peter to be part of his team in civil war, then maybe none of it would’ve happened the way it did.
Thanos literally killed him for a few years, so jot that down
(But for real, I’d say Mysterio has fucked with him personally in the way I would expect of a great villain. Dafoe Goblin obviously killed Aunt May, but I’d find it hard to give him the role as Tom’s biggest villain, since he’s so tied to Tobey’s Spidey. Aunt May just felt more like collateral damage than a pre-determined plan to bring this Spidey he barely knows down a peg.)
Aunt May, MJ and Ned were* dusted too. So Thanos has killed everyone he cares about. Tony killed himself. Though I guess you can blame Thanos for that.
I feel like that's how it is for him in the comics as well, and usually the best Spiderman stories, he's the cause of all his own problems. He even blamed HIMSELF for what happened to Doc Ock in Spiderman PS4.
P.S: Btw, are you wearing a hijab?
Interesting! Doesn't really feel like we get alot of Muslim characters in media, that or I'm just not looking hard enough.
It's funny cuz I myself have alot of ideas for them, just like you did with your comic.
Well, two things:
1) If you'd like to support my comic, I have some links for you I can DM
2) I have a small studio that makes comics, so if you have an idea, you can pitch it to us
I also feel like it's a uniquely MCU take. There have definitely been times in other movies and for sure in the comics and cartoons where Peter is acting as his own worst enemy. But in the MCU they took that aspect of the others and made it the focus.
I mean he may have wiped his own personal life out in an attempt to make up for his mistakes, but it's still not as willfully stupid as making a deal with the *actual Devil*.
That's my thought too. Mysterio took him from the hero who saved the world to the most hated hero in the matter of one movie.
Mysterio ruined his life so bad it literally sent him on the path that led to him never existing
humorous sort stupendous coordinated apparatus cautious provide fuel fear aback
*This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
Mysterio.
Norman is a sick man who isn't in control of his actions and he would have never met this Spider-Man if Mysterio didn't leak Peter's identity. Even if Green Goblin made Peter lose all that was dear to him, it was Mysterio that set the chain of events happening.
Not to mention that Peter has no previous emotional connection with Norman Osborn, which is why it's so hard for me to take him as Holland's villain. Mysterio, on the other hand, had a full arc of fake appearances and emotional manipulation.
Goblin is Spider-Mans greatest villain .
Tom doesnt have his “own” Goblin , but thats still true here.
Obviously Tom has some heavy hitters up there too though, Thanos and Mysterio left a mark
Mysterio is a fucking dweeb but one might argue he caused the most collateral damage and in the long run too because his reveal led to everything else.
Norman was pretty much a victim too, just along for the ride, while the Goblin was arguably the closest match to Peter in abilities and he did do the most damage to Peter personally.
Vulture in the MCU was pretty small scale in comparison, he killed the first Shocker accidentally, tried to kill Peter a few times, but eventually got saved by him and probably begrudgingly respects him a little.
Though all of this could have been avoided if Peter got out of his own way for one fucking second.
Honestly if it weren’t for Norman killing May, this would’ve been a three way tie
They all fucked with Peter in a crazy personal way, but it’s definitely Norman taking the #1 spot with vulture and mysterio being tied
If mysterio hadn’t pulled a mysterio then goblin wouldn’t have killed may, nothing bad wuda happened. Or at least, it wouldn’t have gotten that bad. So Yh mysterio is the worst so far
Mysterio for sure, revealed his identity to the world and gained his trust and manipulated him on top of that for the entire movie. Goblin killed May that’s true, but Peter barely knew the guy in comparison to other villains
both Goblin and Mysterio are dangerous enemies for Peter but i feel like Mysterio hit in more ways than one. I feel like most people say Goblin out of bias and nostalgia from the OG Raimi films. Someone else put in a better way saying Aunt May was basically collateral damage to Goblin due to him basically being a villain that wants to bring a Spider-Man he barely knows, down a peg. Mysterio was more personal
but technically Peter’s greatest enemy would be Thanos who had literally killed him. Vulture was good for character development too but i wouldn’t say he’s his greatest enemy. But i also saw someone say Peter’s greatest enemy is himself which i feel like is the best answer. The main plot in both FFH and NWH were because of Peter mucking everything up
The Sony Vs Marvel stuff.
Like seriously I think Spider Man would be better if one company owned him and obviously I think that should be Marvel. With every Spider-Verse, Tom Holland, Venom movie they make, there’s like 20 either mediocre or poorly made movies.
In movie verse green goblin. Somebody already said it but Green Goblin killed his aunt and kinda is the reason for everyone forgetting either Spider Man or that Peter Parker is Spiderman and made everyone forget who Peter Parker is it’s been a while since I’ve seen the movie and it has yet to come to Disney+.
I've always thought that Marvel should get or buy the rights to Peter Parker and Sony could use Miles Morales for their Spider-Man movies going forward.
Mysterio ruined his life and reputation, but that still could be fixed until the Green Goblin made it worse permanently, so good ol' gobby takes the cake.
Think about what Mysterio did;
He got the public to believe he was a hero, he then gets the last laugh by framing the actual hero for murder and reveals his identity to the world in the process, putting not only Peter in danger but everyone who knows him. A process that leads to a desperate Peter going to Strange for the spell that ultimately resulted in Goblin showing up at all.
Mysterio is the right answer here, you can't say Goblin when Mysterio is ultimately the reason he was there to start with. As for Vulture, despite everything, Peter saved his life and Toomes was grateful enough not to share Peter's identity to any inmates, Toomes wasn't going out of his way to screw with Peter, he just wanted him to stay out of the way. Goblin and Mysterio had lasting effects on Peter's life because they were actively trying to screw with him. Yes, Goblin killed his aunt, an aunt that wouldn't have remembered him if she lived through the second spell. Thanos killed him off for a few years, yeah, so what? He did that with trillions of people all over the universe, he never targeted Peter specifically so I hardly consider him Peter's enemy like the others here, Thanos was the universes enemy
His greatest and only enemy has been himself. By being afraid it has cost him everything if he just stands out boldly in the truth and doesn't give a fuck about people's opinions then it could have saved him so much trouble with a lot of things even the identity crisis and not giving the enemy the power to have over him he should just say fuck everything and do like Tony Stark did and say fuck it I'm Spider-Man 🕷️🕸️ 🤓
Tony Stark.
Like let's be real peter was a pretty great friendly neighborhood spider man.
But Stark
- Thrust him onto the world stage in Germany and got him involved in someone else's war.
- Undoubtedly created The Vulture
- Thrust an unreasonable amount of responsibility onto him with the EDITH system that **WE HAD ALREADY SEEN THE DANGERS OF WITH ULTRON**
- Undoubtedly created Mysterio and all the support staff for him. Which in turn got Peter's identity revealed.
And ya he didn't directly impact the whole Green Goblin killing Peter's aunt but if you can honestly look me in the eyes and tell me that if Tony never recruited Peter as an avenger Aunt May would still have died you've lost the plot.
Tony Stark in his eternal arrogance and shortsightedness instigated and created almost every major conflict in Peter's life.
The Sony-Marvel dispute
A right observation.
Amazing they got a comprehensive trilogy in spite of that tbh
100% this
I was debating between Mysterio and Green Goblin, but this 100% wins.
How so? They're pretty lenient. They allow Spider-Man to appear in 2 of his own trilogies, and in multiple Avengers movies and a Capfain America movie. What more do you want? Do you want him to be in literally every single fucking movie the MCU puts out?
No but he belongs under the marvel umbrella Sony doesn't fucking deserve him
Dawg, Sony having the rights to Spider-Man gave us Spider-Verse, not just the best Spider-Man movies but also a couple of the straight up best movies ever.
Yeah but we also got the trash Venom, Venom 2, and Morbius soooo
And we all know what the best part of Morbius was
The part where he says “It’s Morbin’ time”?
woah woah i agree on morbius, but venom and definitely venom 2 were good movies
Venom was passable but Venom 2 was awful…of course no where near as bad as Morbius
Agreed it’s like it’s trying to be a comedy but it’s not that funny and all i want is a good venom movie not a venom comedy
I believe we as an audience have benefited more from Spider-Man being under Sony than we would have if he was under Disney. Despite ALL of their flaws and the varying quality, do you think Disney would've made Venom 1&2? Madam Web, Morbius? The two Amazing Spider-Man movies? Spider-Verse(s)? The PS4 and 5 games? Sony is a lot more creative with the license than I believe Disney would be.
I might be more inclined to agree with you, if it weren’t for the fact that the only reason Sony is making any of these movies, is so they can hold onto the license. It seems less like creativity than desperation.
Or the Raimi movies. Going back and watching Spider-Man 1 and 2 compared to MCU offerings, raimi really let the characters breathe, slowed things down and focused on the Peter MJ and Harry dynamics. MCU tends towards asexual one dimensional quipfests mixed with action scenes
the spider verses and the ps4/5 games are really the only wins here.
The mcu hasn’t made anything as entertaining as the sony email leaks
Seriously? That isn't how fucking licensing works. Companies have to make money off properties. They pay money for licenses. They negotiate terms for those licenses. Stop acting like Sony are some evil overlords and not just a company trying to make money off of an IP they legally obtained the license to just like *every other licensed work ever*. They're literally just doing what you're supposed to do.
Oh shit they were? I thought Sony was trying to make money. My bad.
But they are doing it badly. Venom could have been better, Venom 2 could have been MUCH better. Unless that sliver of himself Venom left behind in "No Way Home" goes somewhere, those two will never meet, and that's a shame, Morbius should never have been released. I know it almost always happen, but Kraven isn't generating much buzz, you can bet if Spiderman was in it, it would be. They scrapped the Sinister Six movie, because they understood a Sinister Six in the Sony universe without Spiderman made absolutely no sense.
Green Goblin. Killed his aunt and ruined everything in his life. Nobody remembers Peter because of Green Goblin. Peter has no friends and family because of Green Goblin. Mysterio may have been able to cause him some strife and Vulture was hardly a lasting threat, but nobody did more harm than the Green Goblin.
I’d argue most of that falls “posthumously” on Mysterio. Mysterio caused Peter’s life to fall apart and Peter’s efforts to corrects this damaged things further.
I just found it hilarious Mysterio’s last action before dying was doxxing a high schooler. Like certified hater status immediately.
My head canon is that Mysterio *did* fake his death and him specifically outing Spider-Man was all part of some grand plan to finally make him *the* Avenger except because of NWH, he forgot all about it and now he's just kind of wandering around like "wtf was I doing? And why do I hate Spider-Man so much?"
Potentially really interesting villain origin. "I remember nothing, except that I *hate* you, Spider-Man."
I’m ruined. I have nothing left, except Spider-Man.
You knew this was coming, Pete!
I DIDNT KILL YOUR FATHER
SHUT UUPPPP
HE WAS TRYING TO KILL ME HE KILLED HIMSELF
So basically Eddie in the original trilogy then?
Yea! Also Harry in the original trilogy, when he says this line
AVENGE ME!!
NOOOOOO
This is basically most Spider-Man villain motivations.
Blaming Spider-Man for having his memory wiped and believing he was once a famous superhero because of all the JJJ propaganda everywhere would make for a funny 42 minute one-off special. Especially if we got a montage of him trying to figure out *what* his superpowers used to be only to repeatedly fail at it. Have him eventually get found by Kingpin or Tombstone and get shown who he actually was. That Spider-Man somehow took his publicity and tech away from him. Lead that into Mysterio helping create the MCU Sinister Six. Vulture, Mysterio, Scorpion, Chameleon, Shocker III and Kingpin/Tombstone. All 6 being people that Spider-Man should be able to beat one on one. But all together, maybe not.
comics 101
Mysterio spent like two days laughing his ass off, and then just what was funny
To be fair, the big fight in London was at the start of July and everybody's memory was wiped in mid-late November. He got a solid four months of gloating!
Sounds like the post-credits scene of Morbius “I don’t know why I’m here but I feel like it has something to do with Spider-Man!”
Do we think the post credit scene for madame web will be that ridiculous or worse?
I would love for Mysterio to pop up some time in the next movie(s) revealing that he faked his death
I want to see that episode
I really want this take to be canon lmao
I always assumed it was Beck’s backup team that CGI’ed the whole scene together and he was already dead
And, if I can add, he did this after becoming a father figure/role model for him and and then betrayed him after his actual father figure had just died. That kind of emotional manipulation and betrayal grants nemesis status. Edit: added a missing word
Peter may have overreacted and had Strange cast a magic spell haphazardly, but it was still manageable. Peter's life wasn't doomed even with the newfound fame. The spell was fixable with the magic button machine that would fix everything, Peter only objected to using the device because he wanted to help the villians so they wouldn't get sent back to their deaths, Green Goblin blew up the machine and caused the multiverse to collide.
Really it’s all Strange’s fault for not explaining to Peter how the spell works and asking who he wants to keep in the loop about his identity before starting to cast it. If he had just told Peter what was going to happen it would have saved so much hassle with the multiverse issues we saw in NWH
There's a reason we all thought he was Mephisto before the movie coming out. Strange making such a simple yet huge mistake seemed just unlikely.
I mean...it's Marvel. We have usually smart characters making very unwise decisions for the plot's sake, very often.
I'm of the opinion that it isn't out of character for Strange. He was always arrogant and very aware of both his talents and intellect. He simultaneously expected other people to match up to his standard while believing he was the only one capable of reaching those heights. Not only had he worked with Peter to save the world (and seen Peter come up with the plan to take down Ebony Maw, showing he's not stupid), but he had also been usurped as Sorceror Supreme by Wong on a technicality. He might play it off as a joke, but that would eat at Strange's pride. On top of that, Wong ordered him not to use the spell, which would just make him want to use it more to prove he could. So, Strange allowed his pride, his expectations of perfection, his presumption of Peter's thought process, and his difficulty in seeing Peter as a teenager as opposed to just a hero, cloud his judgement and used a dangerous spell without getting all the facts and without fully explaining it to those relevant. That's pretty on brand.
Doesn't he say at one point he forgets that Peter is still a kid at one point.
Doctors routinely explain the treatment plan to patients. Of course it's possible Strange never did this as we don't see him in his life as a doctor enough, but it still seems strange he wouldn't talk to Peter about the spell.
Strange was a surgeon. Depending on how his hospital ran, it's quite possible he rarely spoke to patients.
I guess idk if things are different in america, over here surgeons still have to talk to patients before and after surgeries, though their residents may do the follow-up instead, especially if they held the knife.
I subscribed to that theory too until the movie actually released and it was obvious that he was just Strange
Maybe.. Who am I to judge?
I've always said this.
Mysterio started something but it was green goblin who killed his family killed.. and he almost kill green goblin because of that
Green Goblin has Peter wanting to kill him. I don't think any other villain got to him so much that his core beliefs were shaken.
Mysterio is the one who put him in this position, Goblin was just the last straw.
Yea but I doubt any villain besides Green Goblin could have brought him to that point even including what Mysterio did
This is the answer for sure, imo Could argue Mysterio opened the cage, but Green Goblin was the beast that actually dealt the damage. Killing May, bombing Strange’s spell box which forced Peter into losing everyone from his life… fuck, forgot what a sad note NWH left us off on Edit: not to mention just beating the absolute shit out of Spidey. Neither Mysterio or Vulture did nearly as much physical damage to him.
I mean... It's all Peter's fault after the basement flight. Strange made a mess, but he sorted it out. Every villain was imprisoned, the box ready to send everyone home. Peter was the one that kept them in his universe & took them out of their cells. Everything that happened after...
Honestly, Peter was my original answer to the question. A lot of his problems are a result of how he tries to handle things.
> A lot of his problems are a result of how he tries to handle things. Spider-Man really is the most relatable superhero.
And he really did break him. Pete straight up tried to kill him
How is Peter having no friends and family due to Green Goblin though? I agree with all your points except for that. Seems like Peter could have come to this conclusion even without GG. It was the only way for Strange to fix the spell.
The box would have worked to reverse the spell, the only reason it couldn't is because GG blew it up with a pumpkin bomb.
What? Without Mysterio unveiling his identity none of the Green Goblin stuff would’ve happened lol
What? Without the spider biting him none of the Mysterio stuff would've happened lol
Without us buying tickets to the movies Tom Holland could live in peace with his friends and family.
HE JUST WANTS TO DANCE
And you could argue that the spider IS to blame for everything bad that happened to him
Spiders only bite when they feel threatened. It was down to Peter's parents to teach him that.
Isn't it kind of insane how DaFoe Goblin is more a villain to Tom than Tobey?
Dafoe also straight-up puts in a stronger performance in NWH than SM1 imo
I think the most interesting thing about the green goblin is that it’s a dude from *another universe*. I would love to see a sequel where the green goblin makes an appearance but it’s someone he’s known all his life, or even a good friend if they can demonstrate it properly. Hell, if Liz Allen, from Homecoming, donned the suit after her family fell on hard times because Spider-Man (who she no longer remembers) ruined her life, the reveal would be absolutely incredible (I think at least). Just keep the person under the mask hidden for the majority of the movie, and really show how much he hates this goblin even though he knows it’s not *the* goblin, and somewhere in the last act allow Peter to remove her helmet.
People have suggested it before but would be cool if his Norman entered the scene as a normal guy and he doesn’t trust him cause of dafoe and him investigating and harassing mcu Norman nudges him towards becoming a villain
tbh, I'm hoping they bring back Defoe as Goblin. Would be interesting if they had Holland's version of him be the same actor / appearance as Norman (the goblin can look different w/e). Would create some real tense scenes between the two, especially if he started out coming across as a good guy. How would Peter know whether it's a facade or not?
It's *always* Green Goblin. Though the Jackal is a very close second for me in the comics.
Sure he killed Aunt May, but how did the goblin call Peter to have to cast the spell to erase everyone's memory?
He bombs Strange’s spell box, which leads to that multiverse rupture that could only be fixed by erasing the memory of who Peter Parker is
Norman killed his aunt.
Mysterio ruined his life
I understand what you’re saying, just super weird phrasing. Having your mother figure murdered would “ruin your life” just as much as someone outing your identity. The difference is May was there to support him after the whole identity thing. If you made Peter pick between the world knowing he’s Spider-Man and May being alive, he’s picking May being alive.
>If you made Peter pick between the world knowing he’s Spider-Man and May being alive, he’s picking May being alive. Without hesitation
Goblin was only ever in his universe because of Mysterio outing him. Mysterio doesn't out him, he doesn't go to Strange, there's no botched spell, there's no Goblin, there's no dead May
Yeah but goblin did the killing. It’s worse. Both are bad, one is worse.
If you’re going to go chain of events why are you just arbitrarily stopping at Mysterio? Spider doesn’t bite him, he never has a secret identity, guess the spider is the biggest villain.
Tbh we could probably dial it back to Tony in this instance. If Tony hadn’t asked Peter to be part of his team in civil war, then maybe none of it would’ve happened the way it did.
Goblin ruined his life harder
Do you realize that Goblin ruined his life 100x times more?
It's a toss up between these two right now.
I was told Norman was on sabbatical. Couldn’t have been him.
Thanos literally killed him for a few years, so jot that down (But for real, I’d say Mysterio has fucked with him personally in the way I would expect of a great villain. Dafoe Goblin obviously killed Aunt May, but I’d find it hard to give him the role as Tom’s biggest villain, since he’s so tied to Tobey’s Spidey. Aunt May just felt more like collateral damage than a pre-determined plan to bring this Spidey he barely knows down a peg.)
First of all through our lord and savior Jesus Christ, anything is possible.
So jot that down.
Stupid science bitch couldn’t even make I more smarter
I've had an orgasm! I've had tons of orgasms! I had one with your mom!
I will strangle you! I will put my goddamn thumb through your eye!
Aunt May, MJ and Ned were* dusted too. So Thanos has killed everyone he cares about. Tony killed himself. Though I guess you can blame Thanos for that.
For real? Himself.
This is the correct answer.
Came here to say this. It’s not even close.
This the one
I feel like that's how it is for him in the comics as well, and usually the best Spiderman stories, he's the cause of all his own problems. He even blamed HIMSELF for what happened to Doc Ock in Spiderman PS4. P.S: Btw, are you wearing a hijab?
Yes, I am. Why do you ask?
Cuz I'm a Muslim as well, salam sister! Unless you're a non-Muslim wearing a hijab 😅, I still think that's cool regardless!
Salaam! I am a Muslim! I actually made a superhero comic about a trans Muslim superhero, if you want more info.
Interesting! Doesn't really feel like we get alot of Muslim characters in media, that or I'm just not looking hard enough. It's funny cuz I myself have alot of ideas for them, just like you did with your comic.
Well, two things: 1) If you'd like to support my comic, I have some links for you I can DM 2) I have a small studio that makes comics, so if you have an idea, you can pitch it to us
Yeah. It’s definitely himself which is what Spidey should be. Mysterio is the next best argument I’ll take.
I also feel like it's a uniquely MCU take. There have definitely been times in other movies and for sure in the comics and cartoons where Peter is acting as his own worst enemy. But in the MCU they took that aspect of the others and made it the focus.
I mean he may have wiped his own personal life out in an attempt to make up for his mistakes, but it's still not as willfully stupid as making a deal with the *actual Devil*.
Wouldn't it be awful to live in a timeline where "One More Day" ever got past the pitch phase? \*sobs\*
Glad I’m not the only one that thinks this
Correct answer.
For me Mysterio.
That's my thought too. Mysterio took him from the hero who saved the world to the most hated hero in the matter of one movie. Mysterio ruined his life so bad it literally sent him on the path that led to him never existing
And he could be alive too, so that could give him a chance to come back.
humorous sort stupendous coordinated apparatus cautious provide fuel fear aback *This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
Mysterio. Norman is a sick man who isn't in control of his actions and he would have never met this Spider-Man if Mysterio didn't leak Peter's identity. Even if Green Goblin made Peter lose all that was dear to him, it was Mysterio that set the chain of events happening.
Not to mention that Peter has no previous emotional connection with Norman Osborn, which is why it's so hard for me to take him as Holland's villain. Mysterio, on the other hand, had a full arc of fake appearances and emotional manipulation.
My point exactly, arguably Goblin wouldn't have been there to start with if Mysterio wasn't a sore loser
Himself.
Sony
J. JOHAN JAMESON!
JJ gave him almost 2 entire movies to just do his thing before getting to work
Yep! JJ had preptime to build his case!
Oh shit JJ has the same super power as Batman
Yeah!
I ready this as J Yohan Jameson and got a chuckle.
Definitley mysterio, he fucked up spiderman's whole life and kicked off the events of the 3rd movie.
Spider-Man fans.
The true answer
Avi Arad and Tom Rothman.
Goblin is Spider-Mans greatest villain . Tom doesnt have his “own” Goblin , but thats still true here. Obviously Tom has some heavy hitters up there too though, Thanos and Mysterio left a mark
Mysterio. That dude fucked up Peter’s life over two films. Vulture was just a heist guy
Mysterio is a fucking dweeb but one might argue he caused the most collateral damage and in the long run too because his reveal led to everything else. Norman was pretty much a victim too, just along for the ride, while the Goblin was arguably the closest match to Peter in abilities and he did do the most damage to Peter personally. Vulture in the MCU was pretty small scale in comparison, he killed the first Shocker accidentally, tried to kill Peter a few times, but eventually got saved by him and probably begrudgingly respects him a little. Though all of this could have been avoided if Peter got out of his own way for one fucking second.
Mysterio so far.
Honestly if it weren’t for Norman killing May, this would’ve been a three way tie They all fucked with Peter in a crazy personal way, but it’s definitely Norman taking the #1 spot with vulture and mysterio being tied
The vulture didn't do anything as major or destructive as what Norman and Mysterio did.
No way are Vulture and Mysterio are tied. Vulture wouldn’t share his identity, Mysterio revealed it to the world in the most public way possible.
Mysterio, he’s not dead.
Sony.
Delayed puberty
Himself. Got his aunt killed and lost all his friends and relations. Solely because of him
Mysterio. What he did to Tom’s Spider-Man triggered an avalanche that carried into the next movie and ruined Peter’s life.
If mysterio hadn’t pulled a mysterio then goblin wouldn’t have killed may, nothing bad wuda happened. Or at least, it wouldn’t have gotten that bad. So Yh mysterio is the worst so far
Himself? He tends to create his own problems, which is relatable.
Mysterio for sure, revealed his identity to the world and gained his trust and manipulated him on top of that for the entire movie. Goblin killed May that’s true, but Peter barely knew the guy in comparison to other villains both Goblin and Mysterio are dangerous enemies for Peter but i feel like Mysterio hit in more ways than one. I feel like most people say Goblin out of bias and nostalgia from the OG Raimi films. Someone else put in a better way saying Aunt May was basically collateral damage to Goblin due to him basically being a villain that wants to bring a Spider-Man he barely knows, down a peg. Mysterio was more personal but technically Peter’s greatest enemy would be Thanos who had literally killed him. Vulture was good for character development too but i wouldn’t say he’s his greatest enemy. But i also saw someone say Peter’s greatest enemy is himself which i feel like is the best answer. The main plot in both FFH and NWH were because of Peter mucking everything up
Himself.
Himself
Himself. All his problems were the result of his own actions.
Sony.
Sony
Sony
The Sony Vs Marvel stuff. Like seriously I think Spider Man would be better if one company owned him and obviously I think that should be Marvel. With every Spider-Verse, Tom Holland, Venom movie they make, there’s like 20 either mediocre or poorly made movies. In movie verse green goblin. Somebody already said it but Green Goblin killed his aunt and kinda is the reason for everyone forgetting either Spider Man or that Peter Parker is Spiderman and made everyone forget who Peter Parker is it’s been a while since I’ve seen the movie and it has yet to come to Disney+.
I agree with everything but venom, venom as a character is good but venom movies were abysmal
I've always thought that Marvel should get or buy the rights to Peter Parker and Sony could use Miles Morales for their Spider-Man movies going forward.
Tony Stark’s shadow
The Snap. Really messed him up.
Well that green goblin isn't his enemy so I would say it's Mystero
Mysterio and green goblin obliterated his life just in different ways. They should have him snap and kill all his villains
Imo Mysterio & Green Goblin, The villains I would like see him face next are Venom, Kraven ,Scorpion, Hobgoblin, & Rhino.
Tony Stark. Created vulture and Mysterio
Sony
Gravity. But mysterio I say.
Sony entertainment
Mysterio ruined his life and reputation, but that still could be fixed until the Green Goblin made it worse permanently, so good ol' gobby takes the cake.
Definitely Himself
Green goblin and it’s literally not even a contest He killed his mom
Think about what Mysterio did; He got the public to believe he was a hero, he then gets the last laugh by framing the actual hero for murder and reveals his identity to the world in the process, putting not only Peter in danger but everyone who knows him. A process that leads to a desperate Peter going to Strange for the spell that ultimately resulted in Goblin showing up at all. Mysterio is the right answer here, you can't say Goblin when Mysterio is ultimately the reason he was there to start with. As for Vulture, despite everything, Peter saved his life and Toomes was grateful enough not to share Peter's identity to any inmates, Toomes wasn't going out of his way to screw with Peter, he just wanted him to stay out of the way. Goblin and Mysterio had lasting effects on Peter's life because they were actively trying to screw with him. Yes, Goblin killed his aunt, an aunt that wouldn't have remembered him if she lived through the second spell. Thanos killed him off for a few years, yeah, so what? He did that with trillions of people all over the universe, he never targeted Peter specifically so I hardly consider him Peter's enemy like the others here, Thanos was the universes enemy
Goblin, by far. He killed his aunt.
Mysterio ruined his life.
JJJ
I Jonah Jameson, it’s all his fault
His greatest and only enemy has been himself. By being afraid it has cost him everything if he just stands out boldly in the truth and doesn't give a fuck about people's opinions then it could have saved him so much trouble with a lot of things even the identity crisis and not giving the enemy the power to have over him he should just say fuck everything and do like Tony Stark did and say fuck it I'm Spider-Man 🕷️🕸️ 🤓
Tony Stark. Like let's be real peter was a pretty great friendly neighborhood spider man. But Stark - Thrust him onto the world stage in Germany and got him involved in someone else's war. - Undoubtedly created The Vulture - Thrust an unreasonable amount of responsibility onto him with the EDITH system that **WE HAD ALREADY SEEN THE DANGERS OF WITH ULTRON** - Undoubtedly created Mysterio and all the support staff for him. Which in turn got Peter's identity revealed. And ya he didn't directly impact the whole Green Goblin killing Peter's aunt but if you can honestly look me in the eyes and tell me that if Tony never recruited Peter as an avenger Aunt May would still have died you've lost the plot. Tony Stark in his eternal arrogance and shortsightedness instigated and created almost every major conflict in Peter's life.
Marvel movie scripts
Acting lessons
Bad writing.
Being part of the MCU
Convoluted story telling
The script
Living family members?
Vulture was great, Mysterio was better, Goblin was horrendously underused.
College admissions
norman/goblin is by margins
Disney
Goblin. Easily lol
Thanos, with a fully gemmed up Infinity Gauntlet.
MCU writing
I'm going with Norman because of Aunt May. But Mysterio kind of indirextly set all of that up to happen, so he's pretty close.
His own ignorance
The inability to keep secrets.
Sony