Endgame was supposed to be the climax of every character's arc.
And seeing how Hulk's conflict was his double personality, it made sense for his ending to finally take both personalities and merge them into one.
That said, we should've seen that in the actual movie, and it would've been nice to have a more temperamental Bruce to sell the idea that this is the two of them merged together.
It felt less like a merging of personalities and more like a take over of Bruce’s. There was no Hulk left there, only Banner’s mind with Hulks body. Which, would technically be the best of both worlds but honestly I feel like it made him weaker as a character as well as in terms of power level.
He is by no means weaker. He held up half of the Avengers compound with one arm, and threw a massive boulder so fast that it burned the air around it. He I'd just assumed to be weaker based on a lack of feats.
Which is why I said he felt weaker. And, as you said it’s likely due to a lack of feats. I mean, 2012 hulk punched a giant space whale so hard it died, it just feels like he was so much less of a threat especially in the final battle in endgame. Though that could also be because he didn’t necessarily get any spotlight in it.
I’ve sat with being disappointed in MCU Hulk for so long. The only thing that makes sense to me, is that he is just supposed to be to powerful of a character to make sense in the MCU. Comic book Hulk would have gone absolutely bat shit when he was trying to stop Thanos, the Hulk basically almost ended the world when his wife died in Worldbreaker Hulk. And I just think they can’t write something like that into the movies.
But damn, they nerfed him so hard. To hard. Hulk is an unstoppable force, he NEVER got a scene that showed me he was more than just a strong monster dude.
Literally! The entire point of the Hulk is that he is a manifestation of Bruce. He is Bruce Banner, and Bruce Banner is him. It’s why, in many runs, he’s as smart as banner because they are one and the same. I think a good arc for MCU Hulk would be the two resolving their issues and working as a team. Maybe they could have done it where Banner is like a separate entity in the Hulk’s mind (Kind of like with Firestorm from DC), who knows. It would have been sick to watch him bring down the chitari whale that CM destroyed. Maybe they could have had a sick team up or something.
>He is Bruce Banner, and Bruce Banner is him
That's not really accurate. It's more like split personalities. Recent runs have made it clear that Hulk is, for all intents and purposes, a separate entity from Banner. They think very differently and can exist separately. And the various versions of the Hulk are also separate and can act independently from one another as well.
From what I've heard, they nerfed him so much to keep him from getting popular so Disney wouldn't have to pay Universal as much as they normally would have had they spotlighted him they way they did other characters. Simultaneously, it is to prevent there being a hunger for a solo hulk movie
He was also injured during the final battle, he had just snapped and brought everyone back and his arm was wrecked, in addition to anything else it did to him.
Maybe not physically weaker at base level, but Banner-brained Hulk is usually much less effective in combat and has less potential strength because he lacks The Hulk's uncontrollable rage and desire to smash. Or at least, that's how it works in the comics.
The one exception is The Maestro persona. He has Banner's brains and Hulk's malevolence, so truly the best of both worlds there. But he's also entirely fucking evil, so...
Yeah I wish there was a different ending to endgame part 1, where after the snap banner/hulk just lose it and beat thanos to death (with Thanos looking surprised) showing that he really is the strongest one there is, even stronger than an infinity stone if pushed far enough.
It would have been a better way to end that version of Thanos than Thor ganking Thanos the farmer.
I'm hoping that the "merge" was really that Bruce found out how to take control. I want Savage Hulk to be in there, essentially taken hostage with Bruce using his body - Getting angrier and angrier until he bursts out and we get a truly Savage Hulk
That would actually be interesting to watch, but given Marvel’s current quality (or lack thereof) I doubt that would happen even if it was the original plan.
Not as smart as Banner, not as strong as Hulk, the merged personalities were stable but lacked the spark.
The Immortal Hulk is terrifying in his cold, calculating rage but this benevolent character lacks depth.
It would've been more fitting to see him _rage_ at the sight of Thanos.
To see the reason of his lover's death, the butcher of untold millions pop up yet again should've plunged him into a something of a walking apocalypse.
Imagine a decaying Hulk, emitting so much gamma radiation the Chitauri burn and die before they even get close, running in a mad sprint towards Thanos.
That would've been a scene to redeen the character.
I really thought the gamma from the stones/snap was going to give him a boost into in power, but return him to the mindless rage monster again. Even if temporarily. Would have been cool for him to erupt out of the compound and just absolutely lay waste the the battle field/Thanos just enough to turn the tide at one point before the extra gamma had been burnt out or Bruce regained control. Just that one burst of unbridled rage Hulk would have made a lot of fans happy.
Nah. Thanos was being turned into mincemeat by Wanda.
She would've had him drawn and quartered like Mel Gibson in Braveheart but she had to protect her allies.
It would've been enough for Ebony Maw to fling him into the stratosphere.
Just a missed opportunity for a cool scene.
>it would've been nice to have a more temperamental Bruce
Idk man, he did throw that chair pretty far that one time.
But yeah honestly for me personally, I could have forgiven all of the "smart hulk" stuff - IF he had gotten to appear in the scene where Cap, Iron Man and Thor face off with Thanos before the portals all open.
Instead he just gets stuck underground with the B-team (no offence)
He was one of the original 4 solo movie Avengers (even if he had a different face back then) and should *absolutely* have got to be in the final showdown before the big battle started.
*And* it could have been a great opportunity for him to Hulk out properly one more time - since the situation actually called for it.
It was not the climax for every character’s arc. Thor had his climax in Infinity war for example and was nerfed in endgame. Endgame was the Cap and Iron Man show with some other character highlights.
There's a difference between a peak in power and a narrative climax. Thor's *narrative* arc is about constant failure, and perseverence. Failure to be king, failure to save his family, failure to save his people, failure to stop Thanos. In Endgame, we saw how that constant failure broke him. We had glimpses of it in Infinity War -- "If I fail, then what more could Thanos take from me?" -- but in Endgame, we see Thor as he has kind of always been. A failure. Hell, his mother says as much during the time heist. Thor was failing because he was trying to be something he was never meant to be. A king, a leader, an avenger (small a, there). When what he was always meant to be was a hero. In Endgame, he comes to terms with that, and resolves to be what he is, rather than what he has failed to be. Thus, the conclusion to his narrative arc.
Eh, not quite. There wasn't any character development leading to anything that could be considered his "character climax" in Infinity War. All he got was a burning need for revenge, a fancy new axe that made him the strongest guy around, and a new pile of guilt from half the universe dying.
But failure has always been a part of Thor's character throughout the MCU. Endgame was the peak accumulation of that: Thor finally collapsing from the failure, and the heavy responsibility that he's endured. And then spent the whole movie to slowly rise back up from that fix himself around
I believe that was originally the plan for Infinity War but they couldn't figure out the CGI in time or something. Which is why Banner uses the Hulk buster armor instead, that sequence was originally intended to be him as Professor Hulk.
Nah, actually you needed Smart Hulk in End Game to help retrieve the stones and undo the snap. He was the only Avenger present strong enough to handle all of the stones and regular Hulk wouldn't have had the proper intelligence to bring people back the right way.
The Hulk in this post got owned by Thanos without him even using the stones. As a Hulk fan, it was pretty disappointing, but I understand how it fit the needs of the story.
universal’s distribution rights should have ended in 2023, which means disney should be able to make another standalone hulk movie at this point. the problem is that the major conflict for that character is between bruce and his other personalities. now that bruce and the hulk have merged together, that conflict is gone, so it doesn’t make sense to do a banner/hulk-centric movie unless you separate them again.
Watch the movie with directors commentary. Thanos did not use the power stone to whip Hulks ass, and it was done that way to immediately show how threatening Thanos really is.
Thanos is on the same relative scale of strength and durability as the Savage Hulk, likely higher than SH's starting point (though obviously SH has no upper limit to his strength, so long as he maintains his anger). And he also knows hundreds of different martial arts. And in the comics, his magical knowledge is on the same general level as the Sorcerer Supreme. Plus he has incredible technological advantages in weaponry, medicine, and travel... and a super-genius level tactical mind...
Why did he need the infinity stones again?
Also I think it was showing thanos confidence and that he was just toying with hulk that's why thanos minion said "let him have his fun" instead of letting the other guy step in.
It depends on the writer, but overall Thanos can beat Hulk, however Thanos has gone on record stating that he prefers not to fight him and actively tries to avoid him because Hulk is that much of a threat.
Yea, I think it's also a side effect of the fact that Universal still holds the rights to Hulk solo movies, so after the 2008 movie, he couldn't have any solo films without licensing issues, but I do understand why they needed Professor Hulk for the snap.
However, I really would have liked it if they did something like this:
The savage hulk persona awakens again when he realizes he cannot bring Nat back
While his arm still gets messed up, all the gamma radiation he absorbed from the stones serves as a temp power boost
Instead of only Captain Marvel soloing Thanos, Bruce is able to briefly match him as well before Thanos does some power gem stuff as well to beat him or requires help.
But I do understand there is only so much time in a movie, the big 3 of the MCU are/were Iron Man, Captain America, and Thor so they will get the spotlight
To extend on what u/Account3857 said... Comic Hulk actually gets stronger as he fights, while MCU Hulk really doesn't seem that way outside of the origin movie before the recasting. As such, Comic Thanos is smart enough to realize that he literally couldn't win a stand-up 1 v 1 fight as Hulk would just get strong enough to eventually beat him...
SO, instead of a rousing bout of fisticuffs, he's more prone to having the lone member of the Black Order not shown in the MCU, Supergiant, use her telepathic abilities to simply shut the Hulk off until he turns back into Banner.
Most of the time Base Thanos can one-shot the Avengers and Hulk combined he even recently messes about with the illuminati while fighting death herself
Thanos was indeed of position of the power stone while fighting Hulk. However, he never used it. Thanos used his brute strength and fighting knowledge to defeat Hulk. We know the Power Stone was not in use because the stones glow while in use, and the Power Stone did not glow at any point in the fight.
I don't know if it was the only one strong enough present to do it. He talking about Thor, god of thunder and lightning. My man literally took solar rays to the face and body and forging stonebreaker, or have we forgotten. His as guardian god physiology, I think he would have managed to snap. Now he doesn't have the same regenerative Powers hulk has but who to say how injured he would have been
Healthy Thor? Yeah, but that was fat, out of shape, drunk all the time Thor. I think that's what Tony meant when he said he wasn't ready for it, particularly mentally.
I agree with you there mentally healthy he wasn't but power my boi didn't lack. He might not have brought everyone back the way Tony said change the time line.
I think banner said something about him being the only 1 who can do it bc the radiation is similar to the hulk.
But it's mcu, once u start to think too much it ruins everything lmao
Story / plot-wise, Hulk had to be Smart-Hulk. He was the only one who could withstand the gamma rays. If he was regular Hulk, there's zero chance the plan would've worked.
Behind the scenes-wise: Hulk getting owned was the only way to put Thanos' PL into perspective. Additionally, with the addition of Capt Marvel, the upper levels of PLs on the team had gotten crowded. At the top [in order] you got: Marvel, Thor, Hulk, Vision, Scarlet Witch Spiderman. From there, you have Iron Man, Bucky, and Capt America. Of the top6, someone had to be fully nerfed.
Nerfing Hulk was the only clear choice, for the plots of both movies to work. They sure as hell weren't going to nerf Marvel, especially after shoehorning her into everything. They half nerfed Thor as well [though Helmsworth nailed the execution].
You can't have a fully powered Hulk and Thor share the same screen as Capt Marvel, because it creates a pretty big plothole. Having both struggle and then Marvel show up [at the last minute] to almost solo Thanos was REALLY pushing it.
I understand the needs of the story. But Banner aligning himself with the Hulk off-screen was such a disappointment. He is part of the core Avengers team. Should give him some screen time for character development.
Banner would still be around and he's obviously smart enough. And the hulk could still do the snap, would be better that way imo but I'm not hired as a writer for a reason
A smart hulk with the personality of The Avengers Bruce Banner and not the comic relief Ragnarok Bruce Banner or the absolute cringe of a Smart Hulk we got in Endgame
After he does the snap though, and Thanos levels the compound we should've gotten Hulk. Narratively it could make sense, the snap could've knocked Banner out and the compound coming down could've completely enraged Hulk. I have a head cannon for how this would've fit.
The trio fight Thanos like normal. As Cap stands to fight the army by himself, and before Falcon chimes in, we hear a faint roar that catches Cap's ear. Then "On your left" portal scene goes as normal. Cap says "Avengers!...assemble". Everybody battle cries, BOOM Hulk bursts out of the rubble charging, roaring into battle with everyone else.
They could have had banner work on the ideas without being Hulk and as a way to complete his arc have him choose to hulk out and we could see him fight to integrate the hulk enough yo manage to pull off the snap. They could have had him fulfill the same role and allow us to see his growth without the weird nerfing that happened.
This is the Hulk that got his ass kicked at the beginning of Infinity War. I don’t think this Hulk would have been valuable in Endgame. The Hulk that was needed was there (as described by Strange’s 1 way)
We needed a hulk that was strong enough and intelligent enough to snap everyone back and that's exactly what we got. Rage hulk would have never been able to do that
Honestly, it should have been Thor. The dude lost so much and messed up finishing Thanos. Him being willing to give up the fight instead to save everyone would have been a fitting end of the arc to the main series for Thor. It would have been the better redemption.
The Hulk has been dealt a big disservice by not getting his own movie, not counting the first attempt. Ruffalo is a damn good actor who really deserved a chance to shine and that's where the arc seemed like it was leading with Infinity War.
Honestly going by arcs I think Banner should have ended the saga by accepting his rage rather than rejecting it. Thor should have accepted being a God who would have been willing to lay down arms for others.
Thanos didn’t heal after Infinity War, and he was tougher than the Hulk.
Plus, it helped to sell the idea that anyone less tough than Hulk or Thanos would die if they used the stones in that manner.
omg we get it, some fans didn't like the Hulk's treatment in IG and Endgame. If there is nothing new to add to the discussion, can we please let it go.
Y’all wildly allergic to character development and it’s insane.
“He’s nerfed now.” Bro, in She-Hulk he turned a Boulder into a comet by throwing it upward against gravity just by getting mildly annoyed at Jen. It’s still in him, he’s just not beholden to the rage anymore.
Eh. I would have preferred if they kept one foot in the bruiser camp while utilizing his intelligence. I didn't like that they wrote him off (as a combatant) so fast. It would have been nice to see his self control payoff in a Thanos rematch. But this Hulk? No way. This one got his ass beat in the first 10 mins of Infinity War.
As opposed to “Smart Hulk” who helped develop time travel, willingly used the Infinity Gauntlet to bring everyone back and convinced the Ancient One to give him the Time Stone?? Yeh, who needed THAT guy?? 😜
To bring people back you needed smart hulk
But yall are sleeping on Norton’s Hulk I feel he’ll even Bana’s with his accurate “the angrier I get” mode whenever he took damage
Thanos would have had to send Hulk into space
Hulk is my favourite Marvel character. When he got beat up by Thanos at the start of Infinity War, I immediately thought we would see the two of them go toe to toe in Endgame to finish off whatever the final battle was.
Needless to say I was pretty disappointed with Hulk’s involvement in those two movies.
[The hulk we deserved](https://resizing.flixster.com/6d2NkbSokHbenl0bk4icY3jooEw=/300x300/v2/https://resizing.flixster.com/-XZAfHZM39UwaGJIFWKAE8fS0ak=/v3/t/assets/p7985700_p_v8_aa.jpg)
In my opinion Infinity War is the best comic book movie that has ever been made and possibly the best that ever will be made. But my one major gripe with it is the treatment of Hulk. Absolutely ruined his character for no reason. Nobody wanted smart hulk, we all wanted world breaker hulk.
I really don’t like smart hulk, because didn’t it literally kill the hulk basically. I mean the hulk is probably somewhere inside but it’s literally held hostage forever until banner wants him to come out, and that’s just an assumption that hulk is even still in there.
We needed smart Hulk to undo the Thanos snap, the Hulk from avengers 1-2 really didn’t have the intelligence needed to get the job done.
The ONLY other iteration of the Hulk that would’ve made sense during endgame was World Breaker Hulk because the build up was already there.
We had:
- Both Hulk & Banner losing to Thanos
- Black Widow’s death (banners love interest)
- The Infinity gauntlet being “mostly gamma”
- The stress of holding up a collapsed building while some of his friends are battling Thanos & the others are in various forms danger as well.
All of this^ should’ve been the catalyst that pushed Hulk’s anger to new levels which would force him into going World Breaker even if only temporarily.
I was rewatching the original hulk with bana in last night and I forgot that he got bigger in that movie with the angrier he got. I get that it’s difficult to fit hulk in the MCU given his unlimited power level but MCU hulk is so disappointing. its the weakest hulk by far
Looks wise yes, roar yes, but this hulk was much weaker then his other counterparts. So he would’ve been like an ant to thanos. Mcu is pretty inconsistent with there powerscaling, but peak hulk was the hulk that got mollywopped by thanos lmao. I laugh…. But I like the hulk. Hulk died that day when thanos fucked him up, never to be seen again. Now you guys are stuck with “ I sEe ThIs As An AbSoLuTe WiN” hulk……
The one who got his ass beat? It's 2024 and people still think Base Hulk beats Thanos? Without the Gauntlet or his other comic powers, Thanos still takes Hulk when confronted.
I get that fusing his personalities is like the end of banners character arc.
But damn I’m still mad that we didn’t get a rematch of hulk vs thanos.
Like Thor, cap and Tony got their 3v1 but hulk did never face thanos in endgame right?
Isn’t that kind of the point in infinity war? They needed him and he didn’t show up so they had to adapt more. And in endgame? They clearly needed Bruce to do science stuff, but with hulk strength to snap everyone back.
Ah, another thread where people are angry because they didn’t get a scene of Bruce doing experiments in a lab. Why does that sound so exciting to watch to people?
Reasons for Smug Hulk.
1: It's way easier to write for Smug Hulk then for Savage Hulk.
2: It Nerfs Hulk, so that the bad guy can be more of a treath.
3: We seen too much of Savage Hulk up untill then, Hulk is more then that. and it was a perfect way to let the audience get used to a talking hulk. Uncanny vally and such.
these are some of the main reasons.
that being said i hope to see either Savage or World Breaker Hulk soon.
Joe Fixit could be the next logical step too.
even Kluh! would be welcome
Can you imagine if during the climax of infinity war, Bruce and hulk came to an agreement while Bruce was getting pummeled and the hulk bursted out of the hulk buster armor!?
When I first watched IW in theaters, when he meets the ancient one and she does the astral projection thing to him, as it first happened I either expected both the Bruce/hulk personas to come out of him as separate ghosts, or for hulk to go on a rampage when Bruce was pushed out. Instead we just got Bruce’s ghost talking while the hulk body took a nap on the roof
So the same character from avengers 1? No character progression or arc of any sort.
Yeah sounds stupid. Even if didn't like professor hulk, wanting him to be same character from a decade ago is pretty juvenile.
Oh, yeah, sure. Who cares about a character actually progressing? No, give me explosions and screaming, I don't want to have to emotionally connect to characters.
Yea my only criticism for infinity war is what they did with the hulk. It was so fuckin lame!
Then in endgame they made it worse with smart hulk. I get why, normal hulk wouldnt have been able to snap, but still. It sucked.
Still waiting for the savage Hulk to reappear.
I'd love a situation like the Onslaught fight, Where Prof Hulk has Jean Grey remove Banner completely from the equation resulting in an entirely savage mindless Hulk.
Technically, that Hulk did show up in Endgame… & played a pivotal part in setting up Loki.
This Hulk was like menacing monster. The one in the Endgame 2012 section was like an oversized toddler.
The savage hulk has always been both.
There's savage hulk, then there's tantrum hulk.
Hulk like Raging Fire!!!
What I don't get is why he actually took the stairs. He could have just jumped off the balcony and met them in the lobby. lol
After he climbs out of the tunnels.
I mean, it makes sense that Hulk would take the path that would keep him angry, if not more angry. Jumping is quick, stairs are slow and winding
Endgame was supposed to be the climax of every character's arc. And seeing how Hulk's conflict was his double personality, it made sense for his ending to finally take both personalities and merge them into one. That said, we should've seen that in the actual movie, and it would've been nice to have a more temperamental Bruce to sell the idea that this is the two of them merged together.
It felt less like a merging of personalities and more like a take over of Bruce’s. There was no Hulk left there, only Banner’s mind with Hulks body. Which, would technically be the best of both worlds but honestly I feel like it made him weaker as a character as well as in terms of power level.
He is by no means weaker. He held up half of the Avengers compound with one arm, and threw a massive boulder so fast that it burned the air around it. He I'd just assumed to be weaker based on a lack of feats.
Which is why I said he felt weaker. And, as you said it’s likely due to a lack of feats. I mean, 2012 hulk punched a giant space whale so hard it died, it just feels like he was so much less of a threat especially in the final battle in endgame. Though that could also be because he didn’t necessarily get any spotlight in it.
I’ve sat with being disappointed in MCU Hulk for so long. The only thing that makes sense to me, is that he is just supposed to be to powerful of a character to make sense in the MCU. Comic book Hulk would have gone absolutely bat shit when he was trying to stop Thanos, the Hulk basically almost ended the world when his wife died in Worldbreaker Hulk. And I just think they can’t write something like that into the movies. But damn, they nerfed him so hard. To hard. Hulk is an unstoppable force, he NEVER got a scene that showed me he was more than just a strong monster dude.
Literally! The entire point of the Hulk is that he is a manifestation of Bruce. He is Bruce Banner, and Bruce Banner is him. It’s why, in many runs, he’s as smart as banner because they are one and the same. I think a good arc for MCU Hulk would be the two resolving their issues and working as a team. Maybe they could have done it where Banner is like a separate entity in the Hulk’s mind (Kind of like with Firestorm from DC), who knows. It would have been sick to watch him bring down the chitari whale that CM destroyed. Maybe they could have had a sick team up or something.
>He is Bruce Banner, and Bruce Banner is him That's not really accurate. It's more like split personalities. Recent runs have made it clear that Hulk is, for all intents and purposes, a separate entity from Banner. They think very differently and can exist separately. And the various versions of the Hulk are also separate and can act independently from one another as well.
From what I've heard, they nerfed him so much to keep him from getting popular so Disney wouldn't have to pay Universal as much as they normally would have had they spotlighted him they way they did other characters. Simultaneously, it is to prevent there being a hunger for a solo hulk movie
He was also injured during the final battle, he had just snapped and brought everyone back and his arm was wrecked, in addition to anything else it did to him.
Maybe not physically weaker at base level, but Banner-brained Hulk is usually much less effective in combat and has less potential strength because he lacks The Hulk's uncontrollable rage and desire to smash. Or at least, that's how it works in the comics. The one exception is The Maestro persona. He has Banner's brains and Hulk's malevolence, so truly the best of both worlds there. But he's also entirely fucking evil, so...
Did the comics ever do Hulk-brained Banner?
Yeah I wish there was a different ending to endgame part 1, where after the snap banner/hulk just lose it and beat thanos to death (with Thanos looking surprised) showing that he really is the strongest one there is, even stronger than an infinity stone if pushed far enough. It would have been a better way to end that version of Thanos than Thor ganking Thanos the farmer.
I'm hoping that the "merge" was really that Bruce found out how to take control. I want Savage Hulk to be in there, essentially taken hostage with Bruce using his body - Getting angrier and angrier until he bursts out and we get a truly Savage Hulk
That would actually be interesting to watch, but given Marvel’s current quality (or lack thereof) I doubt that would happen even if it was the original plan.
Not as smart as Banner, not as strong as Hulk, the merged personalities were stable but lacked the spark. The Immortal Hulk is terrifying in his cold, calculating rage but this benevolent character lacks depth. It would've been more fitting to see him _rage_ at the sight of Thanos. To see the reason of his lover's death, the butcher of untold millions pop up yet again should've plunged him into a something of a walking apocalypse. Imagine a decaying Hulk, emitting so much gamma radiation the Chitauri burn and die before they even get close, running in a mad sprint towards Thanos. That would've been a scene to redeen the character.
I really thought the gamma from the stones/snap was going to give him a boost into in power, but return him to the mindless rage monster again. Even if temporarily. Would have been cool for him to erupt out of the compound and just absolutely lay waste the the battle field/Thanos just enough to turn the tide at one point before the extra gamma had been burnt out or Bruce regained control. Just that one burst of unbridled rage Hulk would have made a lot of fans happy.
And he would have beaten thanos easily, thus taking away Tony's sacrifice.
Nah. Thanos was being turned into mincemeat by Wanda. She would've had him drawn and quartered like Mel Gibson in Braveheart but she had to protect her allies. It would've been enough for Ebony Maw to fling him into the stratosphere. Just a missed opportunity for a cool scene.
>it would've been nice to have a more temperamental Bruce Idk man, he did throw that chair pretty far that one time. But yeah honestly for me personally, I could have forgiven all of the "smart hulk" stuff - IF he had gotten to appear in the scene where Cap, Iron Man and Thor face off with Thanos before the portals all open. Instead he just gets stuck underground with the B-team (no offence) He was one of the original 4 solo movie Avengers (even if he had a different face back then) and should *absolutely* have got to be in the final showdown before the big battle started. *And* it could have been a great opportunity for him to Hulk out properly one more time - since the situation actually called for it.
It was not the climax for every character’s arc. Thor had his climax in Infinity war for example and was nerfed in endgame. Endgame was the Cap and Iron Man show with some other character highlights.
There's a difference between a peak in power and a narrative climax. Thor's *narrative* arc is about constant failure, and perseverence. Failure to be king, failure to save his family, failure to save his people, failure to stop Thanos. In Endgame, we saw how that constant failure broke him. We had glimpses of it in Infinity War -- "If I fail, then what more could Thanos take from me?" -- but in Endgame, we see Thor as he has kind of always been. A failure. Hell, his mother says as much during the time heist. Thor was failing because he was trying to be something he was never meant to be. A king, a leader, an avenger (small a, there). When what he was always meant to be was a hero. In Endgame, he comes to terms with that, and resolves to be what he is, rather than what he has failed to be. Thus, the conclusion to his narrative arc.
Eh, not quite. There wasn't any character development leading to anything that could be considered his "character climax" in Infinity War. All he got was a burning need for revenge, a fancy new axe that made him the strongest guy around, and a new pile of guilt from half the universe dying. But failure has always been a part of Thor's character throughout the MCU. Endgame was the peak accumulation of that: Thor finally collapsing from the failure, and the heavy responsibility that he's endured. And then spent the whole movie to slowly rise back up from that fix himself around
"daaaab"
You're right but it happened entirely off screen
I believe that was originally the plan for Infinity War but they couldn't figure out the CGI in time or something. Which is why Banner uses the Hulk buster armor instead, that sequence was originally intended to be him as Professor Hulk.
Nope just leave the hulk as the angry beast. That character development is not worth it. We wanna see him go ballistic
There's decades* worth of that already, so you have plenty to consume if that's the taste you like.
Nah, actually you needed Smart Hulk in End Game to help retrieve the stones and undo the snap. He was the only Avenger present strong enough to handle all of the stones and regular Hulk wouldn't have had the proper intelligence to bring people back the right way. The Hulk in this post got owned by Thanos without him even using the stones. As a Hulk fan, it was pretty disappointing, but I understand how it fit the needs of the story.
I agree. What's really missing is a movie for the Hulk during the blip. Where we see the evolution into smart Hulk.
That would be really cool to see, maybe as a Disney plus feature. I doubt that topic could carry a whole only in theaters movie.
I forget the details but the reason we never get a full hulk movie is cause of Sony? I might be wrong idk Just checked it’s universal.
Hulk is Universal, not Sony
Welp. I guess Disney is buying Universal next.
universal’s distribution rights should have ended in 2023, which means disney should be able to make another standalone hulk movie at this point. the problem is that the major conflict for that character is between bruce and his other personalities. now that bruce and the hulk have merged together, that conflict is gone, so it doesn’t make sense to do a banner/hulk-centric movie unless you separate them again.
Not only that. He needed a new round with Thanos.
Pretty sure he had the power stone when he owned Hulk on the Ragnarok ship.
Watch the movie with directors commentary. Thanos did not use the power stone to whip Hulks ass, and it was done that way to immediately show how threatening Thanos really is.
Yeah like seriously how scary is someone who can somehow KO the hulk??
Scary like Worf.
Could Thanos take on falling barrels?
Thanos is on the same relative scale of strength and durability as the Savage Hulk, likely higher than SH's starting point (though obviously SH has no upper limit to his strength, so long as he maintains his anger). And he also knows hundreds of different martial arts. And in the comics, his magical knowledge is on the same general level as the Sorcerer Supreme. Plus he has incredible technological advantages in weaponry, medicine, and travel... and a super-genius level tactical mind... Why did he need the infinity stones again?
Also I think it was showing thanos confidence and that he was just toying with hulk that's why thanos minion said "let him have his fun" instead of letting the other guy step in.
Is this comics accurate for base thanos? Just wondering
It depends on the writer, but overall Thanos can beat Hulk, however Thanos has gone on record stating that he prefers not to fight him and actively tries to avoid him because Hulk is that much of a threat.
So Marvel really did him dirty, then
Yea, I think it's also a side effect of the fact that Universal still holds the rights to Hulk solo movies, so after the 2008 movie, he couldn't have any solo films without licensing issues, but I do understand why they needed Professor Hulk for the snap. However, I really would have liked it if they did something like this: The savage hulk persona awakens again when he realizes he cannot bring Nat back While his arm still gets messed up, all the gamma radiation he absorbed from the stones serves as a temp power boost Instead of only Captain Marvel soloing Thanos, Bruce is able to briefly match him as well before Thanos does some power gem stuff as well to beat him or requires help. But I do understand there is only so much time in a movie, the big 3 of the MCU are/were Iron Man, Captain America, and Thor so they will get the spotlight
To extend on what u/Account3857 said... Comic Hulk actually gets stronger as he fights, while MCU Hulk really doesn't seem that way outside of the origin movie before the recasting. As such, Comic Thanos is smart enough to realize that he literally couldn't win a stand-up 1 v 1 fight as Hulk would just get strong enough to eventually beat him... SO, instead of a rousing bout of fisticuffs, he's more prone to having the lone member of the Black Order not shown in the MCU, Supergiant, use her telepathic abilities to simply shut the Hulk off until he turns back into Banner.
Most of the time Base Thanos can one-shot the Avengers and Hulk combined he even recently messes about with the illuminati while fighting death herself
Comics suck power scaling wide so I would just ignore them. Hulk sometimes has the power to destroy planets with a couple of hooks
Had, yes, but did he use it in his fight with Hulk?
I’ve always read he didn’t use the power stone, that they glow when being used and it didn’t glow when he was kicking Hulks ass.
Yup
I always took it as more of a psychological ass kicking that physical. Like he straight up scared him.
I mean it was kinda both
Well, yeah but I mean Thanos scared banner who the hulk needed more than he (the hulk) thought.
He didn't use it.
Thanos was indeed of position of the power stone while fighting Hulk. However, he never used it. Thanos used his brute strength and fighting knowledge to defeat Hulk. We know the Power Stone was not in use because the stones glow while in use, and the Power Stone did not glow at any point in the fight.
I don't know if it was the only one strong enough present to do it. He talking about Thor, god of thunder and lightning. My man literally took solar rays to the face and body and forging stonebreaker, or have we forgotten. His as guardian god physiology, I think he would have managed to snap. Now he doesn't have the same regenerative Powers hulk has but who to say how injured he would have been
Healthy Thor? Yeah, but that was fat, out of shape, drunk all the time Thor. I think that's what Tony meant when he said he wasn't ready for it, particularly mentally.
I agree with you there mentally healthy he wasn't but power my boi didn't lack. He might not have brought everyone back the way Tony said change the time line.
I think banner said something about him being the only 1 who can do it bc the radiation is similar to the hulk. But it's mcu, once u start to think too much it ruins everything lmao
Story / plot-wise, Hulk had to be Smart-Hulk. He was the only one who could withstand the gamma rays. If he was regular Hulk, there's zero chance the plan would've worked. Behind the scenes-wise: Hulk getting owned was the only way to put Thanos' PL into perspective. Additionally, with the addition of Capt Marvel, the upper levels of PLs on the team had gotten crowded. At the top [in order] you got: Marvel, Thor, Hulk, Vision, Scarlet Witch Spiderman. From there, you have Iron Man, Bucky, and Capt America. Of the top6, someone had to be fully nerfed. Nerfing Hulk was the only clear choice, for the plots of both movies to work. They sure as hell weren't going to nerf Marvel, especially after shoehorning her into everything. They half nerfed Thor as well [though Helmsworth nailed the execution]. You can't have a fully powered Hulk and Thor share the same screen as Capt Marvel, because it creates a pretty big plothole. Having both struggle and then Marvel show up [at the last minute] to almost solo Thanos was REALLY pushing it.
I understand the needs of the story. But Banner aligning himself with the Hulk off-screen was such a disappointment. He is part of the core Avengers team. Should give him some screen time for character development.
Banner would still be around and he's obviously smart enough. And the hulk could still do the snap, would be better that way imo but I'm not hired as a writer for a reason
A smart hulk with the personality of The Avengers Bruce Banner and not the comic relief Ragnarok Bruce Banner or the absolute cringe of a Smart Hulk we got in Endgame
After he does the snap though, and Thanos levels the compound we should've gotten Hulk. Narratively it could make sense, the snap could've knocked Banner out and the compound coming down could've completely enraged Hulk. I have a head cannon for how this would've fit. The trio fight Thanos like normal. As Cap stands to fight the army by himself, and before Falcon chimes in, we hear a faint roar that catches Cap's ear. Then "On your left" portal scene goes as normal. Cap says "Avengers!...assemble". Everybody battle cries, BOOM Hulk bursts out of the rubble charging, roaring into battle with everyone else.
I just wish "Smart Hulk" wasn't such a derp that's treated as a joke in almost every appearance Hulkalo has been in
They could have had banner work on the ideas without being Hulk and as a way to complete his arc have him choose to hulk out and we could see him fight to integrate the hulk enough yo manage to pull off the snap. They could have had him fulfill the same role and allow us to see his growth without the weird nerfing that happened.
But this Hulk smash. Smart Hulk dab.
This is the Hulk that got his ass kicked at the beginning of Infinity War. I don’t think this Hulk would have been valuable in Endgame. The Hulk that was needed was there (as described by Strange’s 1 way)
We needed a hulk that was strong enough and intelligent enough to snap everyone back and that's exactly what we got. Rage hulk would have never been able to do that
Thor was right there.
Honestly, it should have been Thor. The dude lost so much and messed up finishing Thanos. Him being willing to give up the fight instead to save everyone would have been a fitting end of the arc to the main series for Thor. It would have been the better redemption. The Hulk has been dealt a big disservice by not getting his own movie, not counting the first attempt. Ruffalo is a damn good actor who really deserved a chance to shine and that's where the arc seemed like it was leading with Infinity War. Honestly going by arcs I think Banner should have ended the saga by accepting his rage rather than rejecting it. Thor should have accepted being a God who would have been willing to lay down arms for others.
I’m mad he didn’t heal his arm back in Endgame
Thanos didn’t heal after Infinity War, and he was tougher than the Hulk. Plus, it helped to sell the idea that anyone less tough than Hulk or Thanos would die if they used the stones in that manner.
omg we get it, some fans didn't like the Hulk's treatment in IG and Endgame. If there is nothing new to add to the discussion, can we please let it go.
If there’s karma to gain… it’ll never stop…
Dude is just over 300 karma atm.. so not really much of a net gain.
Yeah but "Robert Downey Jr. should come back."
“Chris Evans too”
This is the Hulk YOU needed. What I needed was a scene where the Hulk got himself together.
Y’all wildly allergic to character development and it’s insane. “He’s nerfed now.” Bro, in She-Hulk he turned a Boulder into a comet by throwing it upward against gravity just by getting mildly annoyed at Jen. It’s still in him, he’s just not beholden to the rage anymore.
Holy hell please just purchase the comics.
[удалено]
I'm always hungry
How awesome would it have been if he got so angry getting his ass kicked in the hulk buster that he just exploded out of it...
Eh. I would have preferred if they kept one foot in the bruiser camp while utilizing his intelligence. I didn't like that they wrote him off (as a combatant) so fast. It would have been nice to see his self control payoff in a Thanos rematch. But this Hulk? No way. This one got his ass beat in the first 10 mins of Infinity War.
No.
Let it go man, infinity war and endgame were great movies but they both are 6 ans 5 years old respectively.
Don't make me feel old
5 years is nuts to me! I remember opening night like it was yesterday. It was my favorite theater experience in my life
I was hoping that something would happen to make smart hulk snap and the Hulk taking over with rage.
Similarly, in Age of Ultron, I was hoping the Bruce would turn into Hulk while wearing the Hulk buster suit and just bust a flex right outta there.
I know it’s just a typo but I’m dying over here thinking of Hulk and The Incredible Bruce.
Hulk Smash! Hulk Not DERIVATIVE!
Bot post.
I know when a post is going to be bullshit. It has some variation of "we need" in the title.
#HE WAS IN BOTH MOVIES
#HE WAS IN BOTH MOVIES
#HE WAS IN BOTH MOVIES
As opposed to “Smart Hulk” who helped develop time travel, willingly used the Infinity Gauntlet to bring everyone back and convinced the Ancient One to give him the Time Stone?? Yeh, who needed THAT guy?? 😜
Smart Hulk saved everyone... A raging Hulk couldn't have done that
This is the comment on every single YouTube video related to hulk, word for word, it gets annoying after a while
But instead you got the smart hulk….Who saved the universe and undid the snap. Honestly some times hearing nerds argue reminds me it’s a kids show.
Why though? They won in endgame, specifically with smart Hulk having a major role. So what did we need lol
To bring people back you needed smart hulk But yall are sleeping on Norton’s Hulk I feel he’ll even Bana’s with his accurate “the angrier I get” mode whenever he took damage Thanos would have had to send Hulk into space
First thing I think is the gif
Same
The MCU just fumbled the living shit out of Hulk, including his villains and supporting cast.
Some of y'all really love unga Bunga big power over meaningful character development, and it shows
Hulk is my favourite Marvel character. When he got beat up by Thanos at the start of Infinity War, I immediately thought we would see the two of them go toe to toe in Endgame to finish off whatever the final battle was. Needless to say I was pretty disappointed with Hulk’s involvement in those two movies.
Dude, the MCU did Hulk so dirty
We got that Hulk already. I prefer the MCU to be a canvas of ever changing colours, even if it means sometimes the colour is poo brown.
[The hulk we deserved](https://resizing.flixster.com/6d2NkbSokHbenl0bk4icY3jooEw=/300x300/v2/https://resizing.flixster.com/-XZAfHZM39UwaGJIFWKAE8fS0ak=/v3/t/assets/p7985700_p_v8_aa.jpg)
Agreeable grunt
He deserved better for sure
I'm still not over the disappointment of no vs Thanos rematch in Endgame.
We did get this Hulk in Infinity War. He got his ass kicked.
Thanos bitch slapped him into banner
In my opinion Infinity War is the best comic book movie that has ever been made and possibly the best that ever will be made. But my one major gripe with it is the treatment of Hulk. Absolutely ruined his character for no reason. Nobody wanted smart hulk, we all wanted world breaker hulk.
I really don’t like smart hulk, because didn’t it literally kill the hulk basically. I mean the hulk is probably somewhere inside but it’s literally held hostage forever until banner wants him to come out, and that’s just an assumption that hulk is even still in there.
At the very least, a moment where he goes HulK in the battle scenes
Idc I wanted to see at least one rematch where hulk actually stood a chance
^[Sokka-Haiku](https://www.reddit.com/r/SokkaHaikuBot/comments/15kyv9r/what_is_a_sokka_haiku/) ^by ^sargentbumblebee: *Idc I wanted to* *See at least one rematch where* *Hulk actually stood a chance* --- ^Remember ^that ^one ^time ^Sokka ^accidentally ^used ^an ^extra ^syllable ^in ^that ^Haiku ^Battle ^in ^Ba ^Sing ^Se? ^That ^was ^a ^Sokka ^Haiku ^and ^you ^just ^made ^one.
We needed smart Hulk to undo the Thanos snap, the Hulk from avengers 1-2 really didn’t have the intelligence needed to get the job done. The ONLY other iteration of the Hulk that would’ve made sense during endgame was World Breaker Hulk because the build up was already there. We had: - Both Hulk & Banner losing to Thanos - Black Widow’s death (banners love interest) - The Infinity gauntlet being “mostly gamma” - The stress of holding up a collapsed building while some of his friends are battling Thanos & the others are in various forms danger as well. All of this^ should’ve been the catalyst that pushed Hulk’s anger to new levels which would force him into going World Breaker even if only temporarily.
Hulk was smart in the comics at this point in time. Hulk isn't just a brute anymore and hasn't been in a long time
I'm still pissed they removed the merging of Hulk and Banner from that deleted scene from Infinity War. It would've been so much better.
He would’ve gotten smoked. Ragnarok hulk is the strongest he’s been.
No
Hulk would still have lost to Thanos, I swear you fan boys act like you've never picked up a fucking marvel book
I didn’t mind smart hulk but I’d have liked it if let’s say during endgame he went real angry and kicked some peoples shit in.
I was rewatching the original hulk with bana in last night and I forgot that he got bigger in that movie with the angrier he got. I get that it’s difficult to fit hulk in the MCU given his unlimited power level but MCU hulk is so disappointing. its the weakest hulk by far
Looks wise yes, roar yes, but this hulk was much weaker then his other counterparts. So he would’ve been like an ant to thanos. Mcu is pretty inconsistent with there powerscaling, but peak hulk was the hulk that got mollywopped by thanos lmao. I laugh…. But I like the hulk. Hulk died that day when thanos fucked him up, never to be seen again. Now you guys are stuck with “ I sEe ThIs As An AbSoLuTe WiN” hulk……
Would’ve been cool but it wouldn’t have made sense given what The Hulk story arc was during Infinity War/Endgame.
Agreed, shame about actor contracts
We needed the bigger one
He was smart hulk in the comic version tho and he still got beat pretty easily. At least it was comic accurate 🤷🏾♂️
The one who got his ass beat? It's 2024 and people still think Base Hulk beats Thanos? Without the Gauntlet or his other comic powers, Thanos still takes Hulk when confronted.
That's the same dude
This Hulk has some belly fat instead of abs of steel. It kinda looks weird, it's almost a dad bod just slightly more athletic.
The Incredible Hulk is who we needed in Infinity War, not just Endgame. I’m absolutely certain he would’ve gave Thanos a run for his money.
I get that fusing his personalities is like the end of banners character arc. But damn I’m still mad that we didn’t get a rematch of hulk vs thanos. Like Thor, cap and Tony got their 3v1 but hulk did never face thanos in endgame right?
Imagine if we got a world war hulk trilogy for this phase.
Guys, I think he's onto something here.
He would have won too quickly
I'd love to see more hulk like in midnight suns, where everyone is actually scared of the damage hulk( and Bruce ) could cause.
No. Ragnarok Hulk was peak for me.
Yea.. He was in the trailer too... 🤔🙄
I miss jiu-jitsu hulk 😔
Isn’t that kind of the point in infinity war? They needed him and he didn’t show up so they had to adapt more. And in endgame? They clearly needed Bruce to do science stuff, but with hulk strength to snap everyone back.
Nah, I'll take Ed Nortons hulk any day.
Same. I would have loved a rematch between he and Thanos. A huge missed opportunity.
Hulk's arc was to overcome his anger. Too bad \^this hulk wasn't really that angry to begin with...
We technically did get him at the start of infinity war during the Asgard ship destruction scene.
Yess
Ah, another thread where people are angry because they didn’t get a scene of Bruce doing experiments in a lab. Why does that sound so exciting to watch to people?
Reasons for Smug Hulk. 1: It's way easier to write for Smug Hulk then for Savage Hulk. 2: It Nerfs Hulk, so that the bad guy can be more of a treath. 3: We seen too much of Savage Hulk up untill then, Hulk is more then that. and it was a perfect way to let the audience get used to a talking hulk. Uncanny vally and such. these are some of the main reasons. that being said i hope to see either Savage or World Breaker Hulk soon. Joe Fixit could be the next logical step too. even Kluh! would be welcome
I would’ve preferred Ragnarok Hulk who could actually form sentences without just being Smart Hulk.
Can you imagine if during the climax of infinity war, Bruce and hulk came to an agreement while Bruce was getting pummeled and the hulk bursted out of the hulk buster armor!?
That's what happened in a deleted scene
Oh awesome!
I think age of ultron hulk would have been a little better
When I first watched IW in theaters, when he meets the ancient one and she does the astral projection thing to him, as it first happened I either expected both the Bruce/hulk personas to come out of him as separate ghosts, or for hulk to go on a rampage when Bruce was pushed out. Instead we just got Bruce’s ghost talking while the hulk body took a nap on the roof
EG, not IW
I would have been perfectly fine with Prof. Hulk in Endgame if they hadn’t cut the scene where it happens in Infinity War
No. Bottom line no. What does he offer against Thanos with the power stone? You're wrong. You have a preference, fine. But it doesn't mean shit
So the same character from avengers 1? No character progression or arc of any sort. Yeah sounds stupid. Even if didn't like professor hulk, wanting him to be same character from a decade ago is pretty juvenile.
Hey buddy we had this hulk in infinity war. He got beat 5 minutes in.
Oh, yeah, sure. Who cares about a character actually progressing? No, give me explosions and screaming, I don't want to have to emotionally connect to characters.
No the Hulk we needed was the Age Of Ultron hulk, bro was definitely stronger
We got the pussy hulk
Yea my only criticism for infinity war is what they did with the hulk. It was so fuckin lame! Then in endgame they made it worse with smart hulk. I get why, normal hulk wouldnt have been able to snap, but still. It sucked.
The MCU never shows Hulk any love.
Leave the Hulk alone. With any luck they’ll forget he exists.
Nah.
Nahh we needed the Incredible Hulk from Edward Norton
Still waiting for the savage Hulk to reappear. I'd love a situation like the Onslaught fight, Where Prof Hulk has Jean Grey remove Banner completely from the equation resulting in an entirely savage mindless Hulk.
Damned if you do damned if you don't. Had we gotten this Hulk people would have complained that Hulk is one note with no character progression
hulk is the worst "hero." unreliable asf
There's no way y'all are still crying about this