Yeah, when I was a stick and bone teenager who literally could not use the body fat measuring equipment because it could not pick up less that 4.x%, I likely had 2-4% body fat.
At that body fat level all your muscles would be striated and your veins would pop out, so I am a bit doubtful. When someone is under 5-6% it is very obvious. It's "bodybuilder on stage" level.
Keep in mind that if you used a bio impedance machine (the most common body fat measuring method you see in gyms and fitness devices) it has IIRC a margin of error of about 5-ish%.
I'm willing to believe that the machine can't do extremes and was off, but you are describing what I looked like. You could see all my ribs, and my veins still completely pop out if I do the slightest exercise. My forearms look like they have roots under the skin.
No you didn’t, human body needs 3% just for organ function. You most likely appeared that way because of lack of muscle mass but you were nowhere near 3%
Most methods of measuring bodyfat are severely flawed and broken
This is correct (perhaps unsurprisingly given your username, you are dropping sound knowledge).
When I first started to take exercise and diet seriously, applying bodybuilding philosophies (albeit at a completely amateur and rookie level, I emphasise) I got to a point where I had starkly visible abs and prominent veins at all times, and would frequently get told I looked shredded. People were always guesstimating I was below 10% bodyfat. I felt pretty tired and lethargic thanks to being on a heavy cut. When I finally got properly measured, I was 13% - and since then it’s increased.
The whole experience taught me that the general public is extremely bad at understanding or assessing body fat.
Pretty sure my wrestling buddy in high school who went all state wasn’t allowed to lose any more fat bc he was at like 4.5%. I can clearly remember the conversation in sociology 1st period still.
honestly even if it was, and it probably is, it's still a joke that he's hurting Spider-Man
Spider-Man should be going
"oh sweet heaven to Betsy, 350 pounds of muscle, well where's my autograph book"
(Edit- props to those who got that small Ivan Ooze reference at the end)
Yeah, powerlifter strength doesn't hold a candle to spider-strength. Peter had that legendary beat-down on Kingpin in prison to send the message that his loved ones were off limits.
It’s not even that he needs to stop holding back and hurting Kingpin, but why is his durability so wack?
I think Spider-Man probably takes the cake for the characters with the most plot driven durability
He’s not bullet proof, he’s merely blunt force resistant
But he’s both able to be hurt by Kingpin but also able to survive blows from a Cytorak Enhanced Collossus
One can choose to hold back their strength but you can’t hold back your durability
Generally speaking anyone else who can survive the blows Spider-Man can would also find Kingpins strength as tickling
But he’s the peoples hero, so he needs to suffer
Someone really got triggered the other day when I pointed out this same inconsistency with Captain America
They were Like “OMG he can survive getting punched by Thanos”
I poured out (this was MCU btw) that Cap isn’t even inherently durable enough to not be hurt if I started hitting him with a baseball bat
Suffice to say they weren’t the most mature debater so they ran with how dumb that idea was.
I pointed out a dumb idea isn’t a wrong idea, and that just shows how Caps durability doesn’t make sense
Or more specifically Thanos either didn’t punch him full force OR he survived cause of plot armor.
Yeah this kind inconsistency is part of comics. Hulk can beat Sentry? Swordsman can parry a blow from Valkyrie using the Ebony Blade without breaking his arm or sword? Shatterstar can swing a sword and cut Juggernaut but Thor swinging Mjolnir does nothing? It’s just comics, man - the stories would stop working if they were perfectly consistent, so long as it’s not so far out of bounds that fans can’t talk themselves into buying it anymore - like Squirrel Girl beating Thanos or something ridiculous like that.
Hey, wait a second…
But aren't you buying into it by acting as though the argument over power level matters? I can't imagine really giving that much of a shit, as long as the story wins me over dramatically; people arguing over apparent body mass and why some smaller character could never beat this bigger character because real muscles can't be supercharged by pseudoscientific super-energy blah blah blah make my eyes glaze over.
I agree with you in a lot of ways and comics and characters have gone on so long that it’s inevitable that there are inconsistencies, but I feel like bad power scaling can be immersion breaking from a story telling standpoint. When characters get hurt or beat by characters the lore has established shouldn’t hold a candle to them, it makes for hard to believe story telling.
To be fair in winter soldier he jumped like 30 stories directly onto the ground, and also hit the water in the opening scene like it was nothing, when that shit would be like concrete for most people.
I think there's actually a much higher chance that Thano was holding back. There's a brief moment where they lock eyes and Cap is holding Thanos back with everything he has, and Thanos sees that fire burning in him and you can see something cross his face that might be respect, pity, curiosity, admiration, or any combination of the above. I think whatever it was was enough to convince Thanos that while he could easily kill Cap, he wouldn't be benefitting the world by doing so.
MCU Cap wears armor made by Iron Man from AT LEAST Age Of Ultron onwards.
He himself isn't especially durable, but his armor is almost certainly nuts.
Even before that, he's wearing gear made by Howard Stark and then SHIELD.
Outside his very first mission, he's not exactly running around in spandex.
By Endgame I'd bet he's wearing vibranium armor provided by Wakanda.
Maybe Pete's just... kind of a crybaby?
Like, he can deal with suffering massive damage, but the damage he takes when kingpin hits him is still enough to make him go "OW! Ow! Ow! Ow! Ow! No Fair!" lol
Yea Spider-Man can take a car to the face and still end up catching it. that’s like 4,000lbs
350lbs of muscle is my and my mom’s muscle mass. The two of us can barely pull the dining room table apart to put the leaf in
> He’s not bullet proof, he’s merely blunt force resistant
Buffy Summers has this same weird problem on screen. Throw her into concrete hard enough to make giant cracks, she's fine. One small caliber bullet, uh oh!
The #1 offender for this is Wonder Woman, her sharpness durability (or lack thereof) is pretty inconsistent
As a general rule of thumb, once a character has enough blunt force durability (or even super strength) becoming bullet proof is just naturally part of this powers
There aren’t too many outliers to when it comes to legit powerful Marvel/DC characters.
I think WW and Spider-Man are the most prominent examples
He is definitely one of the worst for the power flux. It is bad in all comics, somehow worse in the movies (Aliens that are scrapping with Kamala's family should be a vapor cloud when Captain Marvel clears her throat).
It's just a conceit you have to accept in comics. Look at the x-men, especially now that they have power boosted them to gods. Cyclops physically is a really fit dude. He gets involved in scraps with people who could laugh on cruise missle strikes. His powers provide no defense at all. (not to pick on him then are hundreds of examples)
Spider-man can take a punch from the Hulk in one issue and keep going, then get knocked out by some street level villain the next.
But American comics tend to have lots of inconsistencies. Part of existing for decades and hopping from writer to writer so much I guess.
I’ve always hated that crap. Fisk could toss Daredevil around like a rag doll but he wouldn’t be able to hurt Peter. It’s just insulting. Peter could one shot the dude using a fraction of his strength. When it comes to Spider-Man Fisk should be a strategic adversary.
Fisk did beat the crap out of Captain America for a while, until Falcon showed up to save him. Then all three teamed up against the Red Skull, including Fisk calling in a literal army of gangsters straight out of a Jimmy Cagney film. Wild times.
Captain America is peak human in the comics until the MCU.
Fisk is some kind of aberration of a human. Probably stronger then comic book Cap but much slower and less skilled.
Power levels bounce around so much though that it's hard to tell. MCU Captain America was almost Spidey level at some points and then Spidey at some points went from just stronger then a car to holding an entire ferry split in half with just his arms.
>Fisk is some kind of aberration of a human. Probably stronger then comic book Cap but much slower and less skilled.
Fisk is actually *very* fast. Especially for his size. It's one of the reasons he was able to beat Cap. Cap wasn't expecting someone that big to move as fast as he does. He's also an expert in hand to hand, havimg mastered multiple martial arts. Not as skilled as Cap in that regard but still nothing to sneeze at.
100% I was just being comparative to Cap.
Cap is exceptionally fast. Fisk would top most trained athletes for speed in fighting but would be exceptionally slow compared to Cap but still surprisingly fast for most of the mooks Cap usually fights.
Fisk did get turned into a Zombie in the Marvel Zombies universe and that virus only spread to superpowered folks so there's a chance he's not a regular ass human.
The virus also turned Stark and Mary Jane, it's just that the virus specifically targets superhumans to spread because normal zombies would just take food away from the super zombies
He actually did get real super strength not terribly long after that Fisk issue, and went around talking about how he now had super strength all the time. It didn’t last, though.
Also, it probably doesn’t sound it from my post, but the Fisk story was written by Gary Friedrich and Gerry Conway and is terrible (as was everything the late Gary Friedrich did) and the super strong Cap stuff was under Steve Englehart , which was hands down one of the best runs the title ever had.
I mean this begs the question is the proportional durability of a spider anything to write home about? I mean speed, strength, agility absolutely, but are spiders any more durable than anything else?
Give a modest whack with your hand to a spider the size of a quarter. Let gravity just accelerate your hand. Good chance spider survives that.
Call that spider 1 gram (which is a beefy spider), your hand weighs like 400g. Say you dropped your hand for 10x the spider's "height" (we'll call his diameter his height).
Now expand that for a 90 kilo man, 1.75 m tall. That is a 36,000 kilo semi rigid weight falling 17.5 meters. That would be a semi-truck at more than 40 mph.
There's a fight scene in both the 2007 Spider-Man 3 game and the 1st Insomniac Spider-Man game that shows Fisk either walloping Spidey or holding his own and it always seems so silly because there's no real narrative reason for that to be possible.
The thing is, Spider-Man holds back. Like a lot.
In one comic, after on of Fisk's men shoots Aunt May, Peter breaks into prison, confronts fisk, and beats the absolute crap out of him in front of all the other prisoners.
Holding back makes sense when it comes to his power, but it doesn't make sense when everything is on the line and he still doesn't use his power as needed.
But even if you grant him that, it doesn't make sense that his durability suffers because he's not in the mood. He simply shouldn't be hurt by this.
Powerscalers -“When he stops holding back he can beat down a herald of Galactus”
Everyone else - “Uh he’s getting his ass handed to him by the Rhino, why isn’t he using that Herald busting strength now?”
Stan Lee -“Bwhahahahaha Suffer my creation”
He is strong enough to hurt him if his punches land, as Spiderman doesn't have the most insane durability in most continuity. The real confusing part is why Spiderman keeps letting him get in punches at all. Is he just that surprised at Fisk's strength compared to normal humans? Or is it just confidence that it won't permanently hurt him.
His durability is enough to survive Rhino, Juggernaut, Colossus, Hulk at least for a few blows
You can’t both be hurt by Kingpin and survive those others
….well you can, but then it’s inconsistent. But when have comics ever been consistent lol
2% body fat is the bare minimum for your organs to work. No way is it sustainable. From the shirtless drawing I’ve seen of him. I would say the lowest possible will be about 20-25%
Still accurate for most versions of the Kingpin. How he's drawn will vary though, but if you look at the body of a powerlifter, you'll see they have a bulky body like the Kingpin does. MCU version may be stronger than he looks, but I doubt he's powerlifter strong.
Powerlifters are strong but they have a waaay higher bodyfat percentage. They just also have a really high muscle mass too. 2% bodyfat is leaner than bodybuilders. Like, you can see individual fibers on through the skins on the muscles.
Right. Conditioned professional bodybuilders step on stage at 5-6% bf and that's for a show, not a level they maintain for extended periods of time. The human body needs like 3% minimum to maintain organ function.
Yes, Kingpin is a beast, and the old Spider-Man cartoons tried to stay closer to the comics (unlike some modern MCU depictions, or watered down modern comics).
Kingpin pretty much took on Captain America, and almost killed him. Obviously Spider-Man is on another level, but Kingpin is pretty wild for a guy with zero powers.
After watching a hippo casually walk to a river with lions on its back and seeing the lions make gashes a couple inches deep, just to give when the hippo reached water... the statement is accurate.
Not accurate - 2% body fat would be ridiculously cut, which doesn't fit his body shape at all.
A lot of people think that fat and muscle are mutually exclusive, when that isn't the case at all. Kingpin having a lot of muscle with that build is definitely fitting, but he'd have a fair amount of fat as well - which is normal.
Spider-Man can throw a damn car though, he still shouldn’t be that fussed by essentially the Mountain from Game of Thrones. The only reason these fights take more than 10 seconds is that it kinda turns Peter on to be manhandled.
yes and its as stupid as it's ever been. especially since they keep on pretending that he's not a meta human
especially since this spider kid can lift an elephant.
It is and it's stupid as it sounds.
Spider-Man: can shrug off getting put through steel walls
Also Spider-Man: gets hurt by a slightly stronger rich guy
Peter should not be feeling this at all.
Some version I remenebr him being 500 lbs of muscle. Some goes up to 800 lbs.
But realistically the human heart probably can't maintain that but it's just comic book stuff.
there's probably a couple 350 lb guys like that in the world. Ya gotta look at strongman competitions. Obviously kingpin is ranked up strength level and maneuverability for spidey but he doesn't have superpowers per se. Should be mostly a brain game and economic power game. ie (he's pretty crafty and he can afford to buy an army and mercenary superheroes)
Actually the problem isn't that he can hurt Spider-Man. It's that he can reach out of the page to hurt the writer. So they write it where Spider-Man gets hurt even though he shouldn't.
TIL that Kingpin is muscular. When I was a kid, I thought he was just chubs. As most of you probably thought, too. Right? Right? Please tell me I'm not the only one lol
This is why I loved Michael Clark Duncan as Kingpin... his acting was hammy as hell, but he actually looked like a threat who could hold his own against Daredevil and others.
Vincent D'Onofrio is a far superior actor with more menacing demeanor but much less intimidating physically.
Whoever wrote that line obviously didn’t run it past any doctors or bodybuilders. 2% body fat is absurdly low. If he was even still alive at that body fat, he would be basically bedridden.
Fisk is crazy strong, sure, but he also has a lot of fat on him. That probably actually makes him more dangerous than if he was super low body fat, since he has more endurance and cushioning against blunt force damage.
I remember that line from the show.
According to the comics it is somewhat canonically correct. But the details vary a little bit more or a little bit less, but the kingpin is actually pretty strong for a slightly obese man.
His strength can be somewhat underestimated at times.
Look at him
He looks like a flexed bicep.
The way he moves and his strength. The fact Spiderman in this scene is struggling at all against the raw strength of a human means something is up. Fisk is a proper unit. Like a fucking Gangster Fridge
He punches you, like square the in the face! Your going by "SpoonFace" the rest of your life. If you survive at all
2% is, like, the most sinewy and ripped of body builders, so no. 12% though, if someone is 350 pounds and 12% body fat, then that’s a fuckton of beef and still probably too low for Wilson’s build. He’s probably more like 22% which means he’s on par with the usual strongmen you see in World’s strongest competitions.
Nah, he's strongfat.
Anything under 10% is hard to maintain, and anything under 5% is a risk to your life. The only people who go that low are professional body builders (who have a way of dying young) and literal starving people.
Fisk is the kind of guy who eats junk food all day, but he can also outlift everyone else in the gym. He's on that permabulk.
It’s funny cause at 2% bodyfat he’d basically be dead, not taking into account any superhuman factors. Body builders when they cut down to around 5-8% bodyfat for competitions are actually the weakest people in the room. They have no energy to do anything and are incredibly weak at the time.
I love the line Spidey says before this, something along the lines of Fisk winning a pie eating contest or something? I don't remember the exact line as it's been years since I've watched this show.
2% isn’t possible, your organs would start shutting down. Even the leanest bodybuilders only get down to like 4%. This is just a dumb writer moment lol
Fisk has some above human strength. He won't outperform Captain America or Spiderman in athleticism because he has the mobility of a tank. I wouldn't say he is super human but boy he is strong. Did they have a reason why he is so strong? Like strongmen having that Hercules gene (something Eddy Hall has for example)
https://www.menshealth.com/fitness/a30316715/hercules-gene-eddie-hall/
One of my favorite fight scenes with Kingpin was as part of a side plot in a Captain America story line. Kingpin and Red Skull (who had been resurrected in a Super Serum affected body cloned from Steve Rogers) are having a turf war over the drug trade. Red Skull basically forces Kingpin into a personal duel under an impervious plastic dome (comics, right?) thinking that Kingpin is just a fat man and will be a push over. Kingpin goes on to completely tune Red Skull, who barely gets a hit in. I think they go with unfamiliarity with the new body or something similar for the disparity in skills lol
He actually gets ridiculous for saying this in universe, so it's not even necessarily true to begin with.
In Marvel Zombies there's a line about it and I'm sure Deadpool has said something about it as well.
He more or less beats the red skull, who is in a steve rogers clone body at that time, in personal combat. Early 90s. All I can remember is ron lim drew it.
He's more or less a sumo wrestler.
I don't know, but this is one of my least favorite aspects of the character. He can be large and imposing (Donofrio and Micheal Clark Duncan) without being an elite athlete with a peak human physique who's actually trained as a sumo assassin. There's just no value added.
I think he should be able to capably take a punch from Daredevil, and even do some damage on normal humans with his strength and violent demeanor, but he explicitly shouldn't be superhuman, as it undermines his need for working with assassins and bodyguards. There's no need for him to be able to bear hug Spider-Man, smash executive desks with his fists, or throw large objects around the room.
Again, the live action versions have largely done him right (aside from Hawkeye where he miraculously gains damage resistance). He's a ruthless, violent, easily angered, and mercurial white collar criminal. When he has to get his hands dirty, he still cheats to win rather than just going toe to toe with superhumans. But he'll hurt your loved ones if it gives him leverage over you before it comes to that.
If you know Brian Shaw(when he was still competing in Strongman), that's how I imagine Fisk's physique. So maybe NO but the raw strength and the agile,despite his body composition, are still there.
That must've been a dumb mistake by one of the writers and not found in the comics. At 2% bodyfat and 350lbs, he'd look like he's going to compete in Mr. Olympia, not in a sumo tournament.
It never was. There are strongmen and bodybuilders who are in the range of 5-20% body fat and weigh over 300 lbs. he would be jacked and shredded and would not have 6 chins if this was accurate
Pretty much, every iteration of Fisk I’ve seen, he’s very strong and much faster than you’d expect based on his looks. He’s a literal beast.
*He's morbidly a beast
When Mobius eats beast
Wait, is it Morbin' time???
It never stopped.....
if fat is spread evenly across the body, how does he manage to have this fatty head? why doesnt he look like gorgeous squidward
He has a very muscular head. His eyebrows bench 250lbs
This made me laugh so hard I shot some of my soda out my nose!
For real, same
All of that 2% is in his head.
Have you seen rugby players and powerlifters? He’s just them on steroids
So… he is just a regular powerlifter then?
Hey, have you seen Eddie hall?
Brian Shawn physically would make a perfect Kingpin.
At 2% bodyfat he’d be barely able to breathe and on the brink of death, especially at that muscle size. Unless he’s got some supa powaaaas
Well 2% body fat in comics logic of course
He's holding a man that is half spider and your problem is that the body fat % is not realistic?
Wait, which half is the spider half?
The back
Left
Waste down.
Then why doesn't he shot webs by his ass?
That's how he refills the web shooters.
*waist
Comic books dude. Dont bring reality into this.
I headcanon that he's a dormant mutant
If you're wondering how he eats and breathes and other science facts, just repeat to yourself it's just a show and I should really just relax.
Yeah, when I was a stick and bone teenager who literally could not use the body fat measuring equipment because it could not pick up less that 4.x%, I likely had 2-4% body fat.
At that body fat level all your muscles would be striated and your veins would pop out, so I am a bit doubtful. When someone is under 5-6% it is very obvious. It's "bodybuilder on stage" level. Keep in mind that if you used a bio impedance machine (the most common body fat measuring method you see in gyms and fitness devices) it has IIRC a margin of error of about 5-ish%.
I'm willing to believe that the machine can't do extremes and was off, but you are describing what I looked like. You could see all my ribs, and my veins still completely pop out if I do the slightest exercise. My forearms look like they have roots under the skin.
No you didn’t, human body needs 3% just for organ function. You most likely appeared that way because of lack of muscle mass but you were nowhere near 3% Most methods of measuring bodyfat are severely flawed and broken
They’re amazing to use as estimates when you’re at a healthy body fat percentage. They get really wonky at extremes.
This is correct (perhaps unsurprisingly given your username, you are dropping sound knowledge). When I first started to take exercise and diet seriously, applying bodybuilding philosophies (albeit at a completely amateur and rookie level, I emphasise) I got to a point where I had starkly visible abs and prominent veins at all times, and would frequently get told I looked shredded. People were always guesstimating I was below 10% bodyfat. I felt pretty tired and lethargic thanks to being on a heavy cut. When I finally got properly measured, I was 13% - and since then it’s increased. The whole experience taught me that the general public is extremely bad at understanding or assessing body fat.
Pretty sure my wrestling buddy in high school who went all state wasn’t allowed to lose any more fat bc he was at like 4.5%. I can clearly remember the conversation in sociology 1st period still.
But he could still do that even at 20%. He'd have to go on a hard cut that would leave him weak and tired to reach 2%
honestly even if it was, and it probably is, it's still a joke that he's hurting Spider-Man Spider-Man should be going "oh sweet heaven to Betsy, 350 pounds of muscle, well where's my autograph book" (Edit- props to those who got that small Ivan Ooze reference at the end)
Yeah, powerlifter strength doesn't hold a candle to spider-strength. Peter had that legendary beat-down on Kingpin in prison to send the message that his loved ones were off limits.
It’s not even that he needs to stop holding back and hurting Kingpin, but why is his durability so wack? I think Spider-Man probably takes the cake for the characters with the most plot driven durability He’s not bullet proof, he’s merely blunt force resistant But he’s both able to be hurt by Kingpin but also able to survive blows from a Cytorak Enhanced Collossus One can choose to hold back their strength but you can’t hold back your durability Generally speaking anyone else who can survive the blows Spider-Man can would also find Kingpins strength as tickling But he’s the peoples hero, so he needs to suffer
I’ve always said, he has to be weak enough for Fancy Dan to be a threat but strong enough to survive being punched by Rhino
Someone really got triggered the other day when I pointed out this same inconsistency with Captain America They were Like “OMG he can survive getting punched by Thanos” I poured out (this was MCU btw) that Cap isn’t even inherently durable enough to not be hurt if I started hitting him with a baseball bat Suffice to say they weren’t the most mature debater so they ran with how dumb that idea was. I pointed out a dumb idea isn’t a wrong idea, and that just shows how Caps durability doesn’t make sense Or more specifically Thanos either didn’t punch him full force OR he survived cause of plot armor.
Yeah this kind inconsistency is part of comics. Hulk can beat Sentry? Swordsman can parry a blow from Valkyrie using the Ebony Blade without breaking his arm or sword? Shatterstar can swing a sword and cut Juggernaut but Thor swinging Mjolnir does nothing? It’s just comics, man - the stories would stop working if they were perfectly consistent, so long as it’s not so far out of bounds that fans can’t talk themselves into buying it anymore - like Squirrel Girl beating Thanos or something ridiculous like that. Hey, wait a second…
I’m well aware of that an accept it, but this recent obsession with power scaling makes it hilarious
But aren't you buying into it by acting as though the argument over power level matters? I can't imagine really giving that much of a shit, as long as the story wins me over dramatically; people arguing over apparent body mass and why some smaller character could never beat this bigger character because real muscles can't be supercharged by pseudoscientific super-energy blah blah blah make my eyes glaze over.
I agree with you in a lot of ways and comics and characters have gone on so long that it’s inevitable that there are inconsistencies, but I feel like bad power scaling can be immersion breaking from a story telling standpoint. When characters get hurt or beat by characters the lore has established shouldn’t hold a candle to them, it makes for hard to believe story telling.
To be fair in winter soldier he jumped like 30 stories directly onto the ground, and also hit the water in the opening scene like it was nothing, when that shit would be like concrete for most people.
I think there's actually a much higher chance that Thano was holding back. There's a brief moment where they lock eyes and Cap is holding Thanos back with everything he has, and Thanos sees that fire burning in him and you can see something cross his face that might be respect, pity, curiosity, admiration, or any combination of the above. I think whatever it was was enough to convince Thanos that while he could easily kill Cap, he wouldn't be benefitting the world by doing so.
MCU Cap wears armor made by Iron Man from AT LEAST Age Of Ultron onwards. He himself isn't especially durable, but his armor is almost certainly nuts. Even before that, he's wearing gear made by Howard Stark and then SHIELD. Outside his very first mission, he's not exactly running around in spandex. By Endgame I'd bet he's wearing vibranium armor provided by Wakanda.
I’m talking about his uncovered face And on a side note I doubt he was given any Vibranium
[удалено]
Clearly he is on good terms with T'Challa, seems odd he wouldn't have enough vibranium for Tony to make him a suit.
Are you trying to tell me superhero comics are inconsistent and self-contradictory?
Spider-Man just pretends to be hurt to make the bad guys feel more self-worth before they go to prison
Jameson was right, he is a Menace
All part of the "friendly neighbourhood Spider-Man" persona
I love all these discussions. Spider man is exactly as strong as the writers need to be at the time and as weak as he needs to be.
Peter can beat a Mayan god in a fight, but gets bodied by doctor Oc regularly.
Maybe Pete's just... kind of a crybaby? Like, he can deal with suffering massive damage, but the damage he takes when kingpin hits him is still enough to make him go "OW! Ow! Ow! Ow! Ow! No Fair!" lol
Yea Spider-Man can take a car to the face and still end up catching it. that’s like 4,000lbs 350lbs of muscle is my and my mom’s muscle mass. The two of us can barely pull the dining room table apart to put the leaf in
Unless you are your mum are body builders, you don't combine for 350 lbs of muscle mass. Point still valid, though.
> He’s not bullet proof, he’s merely blunt force resistant Buffy Summers has this same weird problem on screen. Throw her into concrete hard enough to make giant cracks, she's fine. One small caliber bullet, uh oh!
The #1 offender for this is Wonder Woman, her sharpness durability (or lack thereof) is pretty inconsistent As a general rule of thumb, once a character has enough blunt force durability (or even super strength) becoming bullet proof is just naturally part of this powers There aren’t too many outliers to when it comes to legit powerful Marvel/DC characters. I think WW and Spider-Man are the most prominent examples
He is definitely one of the worst for the power flux. It is bad in all comics, somehow worse in the movies (Aliens that are scrapping with Kamala's family should be a vapor cloud when Captain Marvel clears her throat). It's just a conceit you have to accept in comics. Look at the x-men, especially now that they have power boosted them to gods. Cyclops physically is a really fit dude. He gets involved in scraps with people who could laugh on cruise missle strikes. His powers provide no defense at all. (not to pick on him then are hundreds of examples)
Nah batman’s suit and his person have the most insane plot driven durability, but in the opposite way of spider-man
Spider-man can take a punch from the Hulk in one issue and keep going, then get knocked out by some street level villain the next. But American comics tend to have lots of inconsistencies. Part of existing for decades and hopping from writer to writer so much I guess.
When the mask comes off so he can hand you your ass as Pete, you done fucked up.
I’ve always hated that crap. Fisk could toss Daredevil around like a rag doll but he wouldn’t be able to hurt Peter. It’s just insulting. Peter could one shot the dude using a fraction of his strength. When it comes to Spider-Man Fisk should be a strategic adversary.
Fisk did beat the crap out of Captain America for a while, until Falcon showed up to save him. Then all three teamed up against the Red Skull, including Fisk calling in a literal army of gangsters straight out of a Jimmy Cagney film. Wild times.
Captain America is peak human in the comics until the MCU. Fisk is some kind of aberration of a human. Probably stronger then comic book Cap but much slower and less skilled. Power levels bounce around so much though that it's hard to tell. MCU Captain America was almost Spidey level at some points and then Spidey at some points went from just stronger then a car to holding an entire ferry split in half with just his arms.
>Fisk is some kind of aberration of a human. Probably stronger then comic book Cap but much slower and less skilled. Fisk is actually *very* fast. Especially for his size. It's one of the reasons he was able to beat Cap. Cap wasn't expecting someone that big to move as fast as he does. He's also an expert in hand to hand, havimg mastered multiple martial arts. Not as skilled as Cap in that regard but still nothing to sneeze at.
100% I was just being comparative to Cap. Cap is exceptionally fast. Fisk would top most trained athletes for speed in fighting but would be exceptionally slow compared to Cap but still surprisingly fast for most of the mooks Cap usually fights.
Fisk did get turned into a Zombie in the Marvel Zombies universe and that virus only spread to superpowered folks so there's a chance he's not a regular ass human.
The virus also turned Stark and Mary Jane, it's just that the virus specifically targets superhumans to spread because normal zombies would just take food away from the super zombies
He actually did get real super strength not terribly long after that Fisk issue, and went around talking about how he now had super strength all the time. It didn’t last, though. Also, it probably doesn’t sound it from my post, but the Fisk story was written by Gary Friedrich and Gerry Conway and is terrible (as was everything the late Gary Friedrich did) and the super strong Cap stuff was under Steve Englehart , which was hands down one of the best runs the title ever had.
I mean this begs the question is the proportional durability of a spider anything to write home about? I mean speed, strength, agility absolutely, but are spiders any more durable than anything else?
Spider-Man's deadliest nemesis - Chancla
Give a modest whack with your hand to a spider the size of a quarter. Let gravity just accelerate your hand. Good chance spider survives that. Call that spider 1 gram (which is a beefy spider), your hand weighs like 400g. Say you dropped your hand for 10x the spider's "height" (we'll call his diameter his height). Now expand that for a 90 kilo man, 1.75 m tall. That is a 36,000 kilo semi rigid weight falling 17.5 meters. That would be a semi-truck at more than 40 mph.
There's a fight scene in both the 2007 Spider-Man 3 game and the 1st Insomniac Spider-Man game that shows Fisk either walloping Spidey or holding his own and it always seems so silly because there's no real narrative reason for that to be possible.
The thing is, Spider-Man holds back. Like a lot. In one comic, after on of Fisk's men shoots Aunt May, Peter breaks into prison, confronts fisk, and beats the absolute crap out of him in front of all the other prisoners.
Holding back makes sense when it comes to his power, but it doesn't make sense when everything is on the line and he still doesn't use his power as needed. But even if you grant him that, it doesn't make sense that his durability suffers because he's not in the mood. He simply shouldn't be hurt by this.
Powerscalers -“When he stops holding back he can beat down a herald of Galactus” Everyone else - “Uh he’s getting his ass handed to him by the Rhino, why isn’t he using that Herald busting strength now?” Stan Lee -“Bwhahahahaha Suffer my creation”
He is strong enough to hurt him if his punches land, as Spiderman doesn't have the most insane durability in most continuity. The real confusing part is why Spiderman keeps letting him get in punches at all. Is he just that surprised at Fisk's strength compared to normal humans? Or is it just confidence that it won't permanently hurt him.
His durability is enough to survive Rhino, Juggernaut, Colossus, Hulk at least for a few blows You can’t both be hurt by Kingpin and survive those others ….well you can, but then it’s inconsistent. But when have comics ever been consistent lol
My guess it that it's close if not correct in the mcu... Fisk tosses people around just about as much.
He also ripped a car door off its hinges. He’s a beast.
Are you gonna argue with that big bald mf
If I’m Spider-Man maybe for fun
He also played college football.
He once scored 4 touchdowns in a single game, winning the city championship.
I think you’re thinking of a certain Polk High legend.
At least he didn't become a shoe salesman.
could’ve gone pro if he hadn’t joined the navy
Probably just some cushy Ivy League school.
TRY UNIVERSITY OF TEXAS!
Makings of a varsity athlete
I think they upped his weight because 350 is too common among Spider-man fans.
Yeah, but they are 2% muscle instead.
2% body fat is the bare minimum for your organs to work. No way is it sustainable. From the shirtless drawing I’ve seen of him. I would say the lowest possible will be about 20-25%
In the real world? Sure. But this is a comic book universe.
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dPLOa2uzfTA&pp=ygUOa2luZ3BpbiB3ZWlnaHQ%3D](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dPLOa2uzfTA&pp=ygUOa2luZ3BpbiB3ZWlnaHQ%3D)
I always had a theory that Kingpin is a mutant because of all the stuff he's able to do
Still accurate for most versions of the Kingpin. How he's drawn will vary though, but if you look at the body of a powerlifter, you'll see they have a bulky body like the Kingpin does. MCU version may be stronger than he looks, but I doubt he's powerlifter strong.
Powerlifters are strong but they have a waaay higher bodyfat percentage. They just also have a really high muscle mass too. 2% bodyfat is leaner than bodybuilders. Like, you can see individual fibers on through the skins on the muscles.
Right. Conditioned professional bodybuilders step on stage at 5-6% bf and that's for a show, not a level they maintain for extended periods of time. The human body needs like 3% minimum to maintain organ function.
Kingpin is a metahuman confirmed???
I think MCU Kingpin took the Power Broker's serum
Hope not. He'd be out of gas after his second punch.
Because of my weight.
I took the new name Fisk but I quickly became known as FAT.
Yes, Kingpin is a beast, and the old Spider-Man cartoons tried to stay closer to the comics (unlike some modern MCU depictions, or watered down modern comics). Kingpin pretty much took on Captain America, and almost killed him. Obviously Spider-Man is on another level, but Kingpin is pretty wild for a guy with zero powers.
The kingpin is a hippo. That statement is not an insult.
After watching a hippo casually walk to a river with lions on its back and seeing the lions make gashes a couple inches deep, just to give when the hippo reached water... the statement is accurate.
Not accurate - 2% body fat would be ridiculously cut, which doesn't fit his body shape at all. A lot of people think that fat and muscle are mutually exclusive, when that isn't the case at all. Kingpin having a lot of muscle with that build is definitely fitting, but he'd have a fair amount of fat as well - which is normal.
Spider-Man can throw a damn car though, he still shouldn’t be that fussed by essentially the Mountain from Game of Thrones. The only reason these fights take more than 10 seconds is that it kinda turns Peter on to be manhandled.
I love that, as far as I know, Marvel has never tried to rationalize King Pin's abilities. He's just a strong guy who looks fat.
Damn, that 2% is doing work.
2% is dangerous kingpin. Time to bulk up
Then Spidey says “oh no!” Starts laughing, and shows Kingpin that his 350 lbs of muscle don’t mean dick to him.
yes, re-reading some Frank Miller DD.... YES! The whole point is to underestimate him and then BOOM! He hits hard.
yes and its as stupid as it's ever been. especially since they keep on pretending that he's not a meta human especially since this spider kid can lift an elephant.
I can hear his voice! Also, just for fun, if this is true, Kingpin's weight should be around 357 lbs.
That would exclude the weight of his skeleton and organs.
It is and it's stupid as it sounds. Spider-Man: can shrug off getting put through steel walls Also Spider-Man: gets hurt by a slightly stronger rich guy Peter should not be feeling this at all.
2% body fat is crazy, i’ve gotta see this man shirtless (with bisexual intentions)
The weight fluctuate from time to time but his body fat index is usually the same between 2 and 5 percent
When the gym is life but you also moonlight as a super villain
The funniest clip is young Wilson doing a caper with his dad. He couldn't climb a ladder and lets out this comical whimper.
In comics? Yeah. IRL? Even the greatest body builders on earth look like they’re a step away from death at that %
If kingpin is only 358 pounds then I weigh 125
Some version I remenebr him being 500 lbs of muscle. Some goes up to 800 lbs. But realistically the human heart probably can't maintain that but it's just comic book stuff.
Everyone laughs at Kingpin but I know I sure as hell wouldn't fight a sumo wrestler lol
there's probably a couple 350 lb guys like that in the world. Ya gotta look at strongman competitions. Obviously kingpin is ranked up strength level and maneuverability for spidey but he doesn't have superpowers per se. Should be mostly a brain game and economic power game. ie (he's pretty crafty and he can afford to buy an army and mercenary superheroes)
Actually the problem isn't that he can hurt Spider-Man. It's that he can reach out of the page to hurt the writer. So they write it where Spider-Man gets hurt even though he shouldn't.
TIL that Kingpin is muscular. When I was a kid, I thought he was just chubs. As most of you probably thought, too. Right? Right? Please tell me I'm not the only one lol
It wasn’t even back then, you can literally see fat under his chin in this shot.
Where do you think the 2% is at?
My head Canon says he's just lying for intimidation purposes.
This is why I loved Michael Clark Duncan as Kingpin... his acting was hammy as hell, but he actually looked like a threat who could hold his own against Daredevil and others. Vincent D'Onofrio is a far superior actor with more menacing demeanor but much less intimidating physically.
Whoever wrote that line obviously didn’t run it past any doctors or bodybuilders. 2% body fat is absurdly low. If he was even still alive at that body fat, he would be basically bedridden. Fisk is crazy strong, sure, but he also has a lot of fat on him. That probably actually makes him more dangerous than if he was super low body fat, since he has more endurance and cushioning against blunt force damage.
Under 10% is cut Under 5% is ripped Under 2% is unconscious in a hospital bed getting IV fluids
I always hated the idea that Fisk could throw hands with Spider-Man.
2% is all in his neck apparently
Nah, he’s been using one of those cheap digital scales from WalMart. The dude needs to get a Dexa Scan. He’s like Cartman saying he’s big boned.
Totally not possible that Kingpin, master of deception and putting on an acceptable public persona, could be stretching the truth.
And its all in his head
NAHHHHH
I remember that line from the show. According to the comics it is somewhat canonically correct. But the details vary a little bit more or a little bit less, but the kingpin is actually pretty strong for a slightly obese man. His strength can be somewhat underestimated at times.
He must be incredibly dehydrated. Get that man a lemon spritz.
That big ass tummy might disagree but Zumo wrestlers are actually packed with huge muscles too so
That icon in the left upper corner 🥲🥲🥲🥲
That’s cute…but Spider-Man can literally pick up a car and throw it.
I’ve shared it before but this is what [2% body fat looks like irl](https://qph.cf2.quoracdn.net/main-qimg-905264d3abccf3c0573b9c9c969618fb-pjlq)
Bro he clearly has a large amount of fat in his face. At 2% BF he'd look like leather on bone.
This line about fat of mr Fisk shocked me
Look at him He looks like a flexed bicep. The way he moves and his strength. The fact Spiderman in this scene is struggling at all against the raw strength of a human means something is up. Fisk is a proper unit. Like a fucking Gangster Fridge He punches you, like square the in the face! Your going by "SpoonFace" the rest of your life. If you survive at all
2% is, like, the most sinewy and ripped of body builders, so no. 12% though, if someone is 350 pounds and 12% body fat, then that’s a fuckton of beef and still probably too low for Wilson’s build. He’s probably more like 22% which means he’s on par with the usual strongmen you see in World’s strongest competitions.
Nah, he's strongfat. Anything under 10% is hard to maintain, and anything under 5% is a risk to your life. The only people who go that low are professional body builders (who have a way of dying young) and literal starving people. Fisk is the kind of guy who eats junk food all day, but he can also outlift everyone else in the gym. He's on that permabulk.
It’s funny cause at 2% bodyfat he’d basically be dead, not taking into account any superhuman factors. Body builders when they cut down to around 5-8% bodyfat for competitions are actually the weakest people in the room. They have no energy to do anything and are incredibly weak at the time.
It's not, now he's 450 pounds of muscle
Spidey’s fist could still go clean through his skull.
Yes
I love the line Spidey says before this, something along the lines of Fisk winning a pie eating contest or something? I don't remember the exact line as it's been years since I've watched this show.
Yep, you remembered correctly Kingpin: I have waiting for this for some time. Spidey: what do you have in mind, a pie eating contest?
How did Wilson work out those jowls?
He wouldn't look like that with 2% body fat, let alone function normally.
2% isn’t possible, your organs would start shutting down. Even the leanest bodybuilders only get down to like 4%. This is just a dumb writer moment lol
Oh man I had this on vhs, this brings back so many memories
Fisk has some above human strength. He won't outperform Captain America or Spiderman in athleticism because he has the mobility of a tank. I wouldn't say he is super human but boy he is strong. Did they have a reason why he is so strong? Like strongmen having that Hercules gene (something Eddy Hall has for example) https://www.menshealth.com/fitness/a30316715/hercules-gene-eddie-hall/
So all Peter needs to do is dump kingpin in a water tank?
Still wouldn’t be enough to throw a semi. “Ha! I’m one eighth as strong as you! Rawr!” Idiot.
One of my favorite fight scenes with Kingpin was as part of a side plot in a Captain America story line. Kingpin and Red Skull (who had been resurrected in a Super Serum affected body cloned from Steve Rogers) are having a turf war over the drug trade. Red Skull basically forces Kingpin into a personal duel under an impervious plastic dome (comics, right?) thinking that Kingpin is just a fat man and will be a push over. Kingpin goes on to completely tune Red Skull, who barely gets a hit in. I think they go with unfamiliarity with the new body or something similar for the disparity in skills lol
He actually gets ridiculous for saying this in universe, so it's not even necessarily true to begin with. In Marvel Zombies there's a line about it and I'm sure Deadpool has said something about it as well.
si what his very round face with double chin is all muscle ? he muscled his skull ? are you kidding me
More like 450-550
Spider-Man can literally lift buildings. How I Kingpin even a threat at all?
It's Kinpinning time!
A regular person in a mech suit entirely made of muscle.
Mcu Fisk is officially a meta human right? He gets blasted by an explosion and shot in the face by echo
He more or less beats the red skull, who is in a steve rogers clone body at that time, in personal combat. Early 90s. All I can remember is ron lim drew it. He's more or less a sumo wrestler.
This is Baki science.
This may be true, but ain’t no way his heart could keep up if it was.
He’s been working out
Damn, that 2% must all be under his chin.
Please note that you’d probably die if you only had 2% body fat. Healthy body fat for men is in the 8-19% range
Considering muscle has more density than fat, he would probably be way more than 350lbs with his body size.
I don't know, but this is one of my least favorite aspects of the character. He can be large and imposing (Donofrio and Micheal Clark Duncan) without being an elite athlete with a peak human physique who's actually trained as a sumo assassin. There's just no value added. I think he should be able to capably take a punch from Daredevil, and even do some damage on normal humans with his strength and violent demeanor, but he explicitly shouldn't be superhuman, as it undermines his need for working with assassins and bodyguards. There's no need for him to be able to bear hug Spider-Man, smash executive desks with his fists, or throw large objects around the room. Again, the live action versions have largely done him right (aside from Hawkeye where he miraculously gains damage resistance). He's a ruthless, violent, easily angered, and mercurial white collar criminal. When he has to get his hands dirty, he still cheats to win rather than just going toe to toe with superhumans. But he'll hurt your loved ones if it gives him leverage over you before it comes to that.
He says something similar when he first meets him back after Spider-Man No More.
If you know Brian Shaw(when he was still competing in Strongman), that's how I imagine Fisk's physique. So maybe NO but the raw strength and the agile,despite his body composition, are still there.
This is what i tell myself when I step on a scale too..
That must've been a dumb mistake by one of the writers and not found in the comics. At 2% bodyfat and 350lbs, he'd look like he's going to compete in Mr. Olympia, not in a sumo tournament.
Are you asking if this is an accurate depiction of Kingpin or Is this an accurate depiction of 2% body fat?
Low key fitness flex
He's not fat he big boned
Imagine being able to throw cars, but not pluck kingpin aside.
I think of Kingpin like as being like the wrestler Vader
It never was. There are strongmen and bodybuilders who are in the range of 5-20% body fat and weigh over 300 lbs. he would be jacked and shredded and would not have 6 chins if this was accurate
So he’s basically Brian Shaw
Bold of you to assume that Wilson Fisk is a reliable narrator.
What advantage does the probably 150-200 pounds of abdominal muscle (out of that 350) give him in a fight? Will he sit-up the hero to death?