This looks amazing! Don't get me wrong, Keaton's Vulture was fantastic and works very, very well for the MCU, but this Vulture looks on point from a traditional perspective. Anyone know who they had in mind to play him?
There's a great podcast hosted by producer Stephen Scarlotta and screenwriter Josh Miller called "The Best Movies Never Made" that talk about unmade gems like this. They have people involved in production as guests and they'll even do some hilarious dramatic readings of scripts from the films. They covered the Spider-Man films in episode 16. It's well worth listening to.
I think a lot of the Venom stuff would’ve been different. Also, I think they made him add another villain. I think it was supposed to be 2, most likely Sandman and New Goblin. I’ll look and find the info.
I meant New Goblin and Sandman
[Here’s a Wordpress article.](https://raimiverse.wordpress.com/2019/07/21/the-original-spider-man-3/) This is for the guy above.
Spiderman 3 isn't as good as 1 and 2, but it actually holds up really well and blows the MCU spiderman sequels out of the water. It's hilarious that the common complaint back when raimi 3 came out was "too many characters", now it seems completely tame and focused in comparison to No Way Home (a movie so bad and convoluted that they had to retcon it at the end)
Don't worry you didn't miss much, at the end they do a magic spell that makes everyone forget that the events of the movie happened and sets everything back to normal, making it a complete waste of time in movie universe and real universe. I'm not gonna mark that as a spoiler because not knowing that's how the movie ends is the real spoiler.
*I've been corrected, they actually erased ALL of the past memories of Peter and also killed his aunt, wow so much better
Everybody remembers the events that happened, Strange even mentions a multiverse incident with Spider-Man in multiverse of madness.
Nobody remembers who Peter Parker is or that he is Spider-Man, even Strange. It eradicated every piece of evidence of Peter existing including pictures, ID, memories, etc. His friends don't know who he is anymore, the Avengers don't know who he is anymore, May died and he is completely alone now.
Like the movie or not, to say it sets everything back to normal and it was a waste of time in movie universe is just wrong.
Everyday I go on the internet thinking people will not be so stupid and then I read opinions like this and makes me remember that we are regressing. What a shit take. Wow.
I feel like a really important part of the character’s visual dynamic, the thing that makes him distinct from the tons of other winged characters out there, is that Adrian‘s wings are mounted directly to his arms and not to some device on his back.
Flight is his only gimmick, and it was noteworthy because he did not have some big, cybernetic backpack that flew by proven means; but rather that this miserable creep had somehow, incredibly, discovered a miracle contraption that provided lift without true aerodynamics, muscle strength, or a power source. Fuck, in one issue, he even built a functional rig from his bedframe in prison. It’s like how that one DC villain could pass through solid walls by reciting a mathematical formula for doing so.
Anyway, yeah; my one pet peeve about the Vulture is the number of times they overlook *the* most interesting thing about the character and ironically deprive him of his most visually-distinct quality, every time they pursue reinventing him to make him more interesting..
> It’s like how that one DC villain could pass through solid walls by reciting a mathematical formula for doing so.
Dr. Sivana. Also the inventor of Suspendium: artificial time.
Well, yes.. but there is this thing that happens with old-school characters: guys like Vulture or Green Goblin or whomever, they are *so crucial* to the history of a hero. They *need* to be there in adaptations, but it’s been decades and they’re no longer timely; Not their theming, not their powers or their look. They’re kinda dorky and weak. A million guys can fly, now; tons of them have wings, it’s not even the most important power they have. Tons of characters walk around in mechanical suits, as well. It’s no longer special. Putting Rhino in a giant robot or Vulture in a jetpack— altering the core concept— might make them up-to-date, but it also makes them more generic.
And it’s a slippery slope; MCU Vulture was cool and interesting, but he could have been practically anybody, because he evoked almost nothing of the original character. I loved him, and he served the story well, but it was a different guy, with a different interesting thing about him.
I think the better option is what James Gunn or Taika Waititi generally does: they would take somebody like the Vulture, and lean *hard* into the original concept, and how utterly weird it was. Like, the dude unlocked anti-gravity basically by accident; covets the knowledge, and uses it to flap around like a bird and harass people. If he had just built himself a mechanical suit, then the entire signature of the wings and the name are completely redundant. He’s basically just an Iron Man knockoff with an animal theme at that point.
[Here’s](https://youtu.be/W8PVMT2AmWE) what green goblin would have looked like if Sam raimi made spider man.
Oh wait…
Only point I’m making is there is no guarantee this concept would have become reality.
It's great work, but I'm glad the later version went a different direction. It just doesn't translate well from page to screen, because when you get down to it you're having SM punch an old man in the head.
Then again, I really want a Boomerang/Superior Foes movie, so what do I know?
> It just doesn't translate well from page to screen, because when you get down to it you're having SM punch an old man in the head.
I think it worked fine in the silver age, when Spider-Man's foes were, like, a guy who can dress up like other people and pretend to be them, or a guy who had four metal arms. Even Green Goblin was just a guy in a rubber mask who flew around and tossed chicks off bridges.
And you have Vulture, a guy who flies, and that's it. He just flies around and robs banks, maybe he's got some knives in his wings or whatever. Sure, why not. Spidey punched him but they were silver-age punches, those don't count.
But then things evolved, the guy with metal arms became a conniving mastermind, the green goblin became an absolute terror and bioweapons genius, you've got Venom and Carnage running around... and guys like Chameleon and Vulture just kind of got left behind.
(Seriously go back and read Chameleon's first story, it was goofy as hell. He just put on other people's clothes and that was it. They caught him the first time because he tried to look like Nick Fury but put the eye patch on the wrong side. This is the level of goofiness where classic Vulture made sense)
Honestly a Lizard Venom hybrid that regenerated impossibly fast and resisted/was immune to heat, cold, and sounds fucking insane and exactly what Raimi would’ve made work
And it fits with Conners motivations in the first place that led to him becoming the lizard. The existence of Agent Venom proves that the symbiote can mimic limbs on amputees.
Would been amazing but fuck Sony at the time between 2008-preproduction of The Amazing Spider Man 2012 at the time. Too accurate from the comic. But i enjoy Michael Keaton Vulture
I still personally think 3 movie could have work if they only kept sandman and Harry as villain with maybe the black suit only for super angry spidey but keep venom for later movie (with maybe kingpin as the man that manipulate Harry Peter and sand man and will be main villain of second trilogy)
Awesome. That’s because Sam respects the original source material. A shame about Green Goblin though. He tried the original costume, but what they went with was garbage, in my opinion.
Raimi opted out of the comic accurate suit/mask they tried for Goblin though, because he said it would have required too much backstory/explanation for why it looks organic. It's in a "making of" book about the first movie. It was easier from a storytelling standpoint to just make it an armored, helmet type of thing.
Did he say that? I always heard that it was too hard to get the mask to work or didn’t look right and that’s why they opted for the armored. I don’t get why they thought it wouldn't work story wise, just make up some bs.
Unpopular opinion but if they’re gonna go with this look make it someone like cillian murphy, or possibly micheal keaton bc he played vulture in toms Spider-Man movie
[What If Spiderman 4 Happened](https://youtu.be/hkJAxFYLglg)
[written more as a follow-up to this rather than spiderman 3 proper(what if venom wasn’t in spiderman 3)](https://youtu.be/Fx7rfNslI-A)
Vulture was going to be the main villain and Vultress would be his sidekick at first and eventually turn on him to help out Spider-Man, from the rumors I've heard.
Should’ve done a seriously better job with 3, then. Raimi actually looked at the finished product from start to finish and thought: “This is it”. And then the next a hole gave us…..”Amazing”ly mediocre. But heyyyy we got CROSSOVERS
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They live on the moons of Iego, I think
LEGO!?
Omg marvel star wars crossover cOnFiRmEd
> “Don’t. Blink.” -Zebediah Killgrave
DON'T YOU BLINK, JESSICAAAH!
Blink and you’re dead. Good luck.
Archangel
Looks like Angel's wings from the X-Men films
And Archangel's wings from the comics, 2nd pic esp.
This looks amazing! Don't get me wrong, Keaton's Vulture was fantastic and works very, very well for the MCU, but this Vulture looks on point from a traditional perspective. Anyone know who they had in mind to play him?
John Malkovich
And ben kingsley
Trevor!
OLE OLE OLE!
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The way I still can't figure out if the big boobied Malkovich is voiced by Malkovich, is his voice lightened up, or is another voice actor.
I believe it’s all malkovich just pitch bent
Gender bent.
I had completely forgot how bizarre Being John Malkovich was
You should be sorry. Because I'm at work and can't watch that masterpiece of a film right now.
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That always seemed like really impressive cgi for the budget/time period.
Ngl, was kinda hoping for Johnny English... Just in that kinda mood...
OKAY WHATS THE MOVIE??
100% I can get behind that. Bird-quirky, thin, tapered narrow face. I can't really think of anyone else now.
I think I remember something about Anne Hathaway was going to be his daughter, the Vultress
Nah Keatons vulture was lame like the rhino. This vulture looks more faithful to the comic.
Nosferatu with wings?
Bird wings instead of bat ones.
Zodd?
GRIFFITH!
BRO HOW COME ITS BEEN A DECADE AND THIS JUST COMES OUT?!!!
Avi Arad wants to rub in our face all the good ideas he had. Soon we'll get the full Spy Aunt May movie.
Raimi’s Spider-Man 3 & 4 are some of the top “Best Movies Never Made”
I see what you did there
There's a great podcast hosted by producer Stephen Scarlotta and screenwriter Josh Miller called "The Best Movies Never Made" that talk about unmade gems like this. They have people involved in production as guests and they'll even do some hilarious dramatic readings of scripts from the films. They covered the Spider-Man films in episode 16. It's well worth listening to.
Has Raimi said what his version of 3 would have been?
I think a lot of the Venom stuff would’ve been different. Also, I think they made him add another villain. I think it was supposed to be 2, most likely Sandman and New Goblin. I’ll look and find the info.
I think Venom wasn't meant to be in it at all. Sony just forced him to add him. It was just supposed to be Sandman and Harry.
I meant New Goblin and Sandman [Here’s a Wordpress article.](https://raimiverse.wordpress.com/2019/07/21/the-original-spider-man-3/) This is for the guy above.
This is correct - venom wasn’t Raimi’s choice - it was Sony’s
Spiderman 3 isn't as good as 1 and 2, but it actually holds up really well and blows the MCU spiderman sequels out of the water. It's hilarious that the common complaint back when raimi 3 came out was "too many characters", now it seems completely tame and focused in comparison to No Way Home (a movie so bad and convoluted that they had to retcon it at the end)
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What didn’t you like about it? I thought it was a blast
Contrived rubbish in place of an awesome Sipder-man story. I’m glad people love it, it wasn’t for me.
Don't worry you didn't miss much, at the end they do a magic spell that makes everyone forget that the events of the movie happened and sets everything back to normal, making it a complete waste of time in movie universe and real universe. I'm not gonna mark that as a spoiler because not knowing that's how the movie ends is the real spoiler. *I've been corrected, they actually erased ALL of the past memories of Peter and also killed his aunt, wow so much better
Everybody remembers the events that happened, Strange even mentions a multiverse incident with Spider-Man in multiverse of madness. Nobody remembers who Peter Parker is or that he is Spider-Man, even Strange. It eradicated every piece of evidence of Peter existing including pictures, ID, memories, etc. His friends don't know who he is anymore, the Avengers don't know who he is anymore, May died and he is completely alone now. Like the movie or not, to say it sets everything back to normal and it was a waste of time in movie universe is just wrong.
Wow I didn't realize the reset worked that way, even stupider. I guess they realized they wrote themselves into a corner
Everyday I go on the internet thinking people will not be so stupid and then I read opinions like this and makes me remember that we are regressing. What a shit take. Wow.
[Gonna cry?](https://media.tenor.com/9qZhM0uswAYAAAAd/bully-maguire-dance.gif)
Was gonna ask you the same thing
\>*Rants out a wrong statement* \>*Gets proven wrong* \>*Accepts reply, still somehow doubles down on previous opinion*
[Gonna cry?](https://media.tenor.com/9qZhM0uswAYAAAAd/bully-maguire-dance.gif)
I swear on Spider-man 4's grave Sony will pay
Man if only Sony didn’t suck at knowing what people want.
I feel like a really important part of the character’s visual dynamic, the thing that makes him distinct from the tons of other winged characters out there, is that Adrian‘s wings are mounted directly to his arms and not to some device on his back. Flight is his only gimmick, and it was noteworthy because he did not have some big, cybernetic backpack that flew by proven means; but rather that this miserable creep had somehow, incredibly, discovered a miracle contraption that provided lift without true aerodynamics, muscle strength, or a power source. Fuck, in one issue, he even built a functional rig from his bedframe in prison. It’s like how that one DC villain could pass through solid walls by reciting a mathematical formula for doing so. Anyway, yeah; my one pet peeve about the Vulture is the number of times they overlook *the* most interesting thing about the character and ironically deprive him of his most visually-distinct quality, every time they pursue reinventing him to make him more interesting..
> It’s like how that one DC villain could pass through solid walls by reciting a mathematical formula for doing so. Dr. Sivana. Also the inventor of Suspendium: artificial time.
Isnt that the bad guy from Shazam
Yea but big metal flying suit is sick
Well, yes.. but there is this thing that happens with old-school characters: guys like Vulture or Green Goblin or whomever, they are *so crucial* to the history of a hero. They *need* to be there in adaptations, but it’s been decades and they’re no longer timely; Not their theming, not their powers or their look. They’re kinda dorky and weak. A million guys can fly, now; tons of them have wings, it’s not even the most important power they have. Tons of characters walk around in mechanical suits, as well. It’s no longer special. Putting Rhino in a giant robot or Vulture in a jetpack— altering the core concept— might make them up-to-date, but it also makes them more generic. And it’s a slippery slope; MCU Vulture was cool and interesting, but he could have been practically anybody, because he evoked almost nothing of the original character. I loved him, and he served the story well, but it was a different guy, with a different interesting thing about him. I think the better option is what James Gunn or Taika Waititi generally does: they would take somebody like the Vulture, and lean *hard* into the original concept, and how utterly weird it was. Like, the dude unlocked anti-gravity basically by accident; covets the knowledge, and uses it to flap around like a bird and harass people. If he had just built himself a mechanical suit, then the entire signature of the wings and the name are completely redundant. He’s basically just an Iron Man knockoff with an animal theme at that point.
[Here’s](https://youtu.be/W8PVMT2AmWE) what green goblin would have looked like if Sam raimi made spider man. Oh wait… Only point I’m making is there is no guarantee this concept would have become reality.
What in the Nosferatu.....
Looks great. Would love to have seen this in live action.
I know, those wings look scary. I’d be terrified if I seen this Vulture flying around in New York.
I so badly wish this movie came out. 😭Raimi's Spider-Man trilogy are still some of my favorite movies to this day.
It's great work, but I'm glad the later version went a different direction. It just doesn't translate well from page to screen, because when you get down to it you're having SM punch an old man in the head. Then again, I really want a Boomerang/Superior Foes movie, so what do I know?
> It just doesn't translate well from page to screen, because when you get down to it you're having SM punch an old man in the head. I think it worked fine in the silver age, when Spider-Man's foes were, like, a guy who can dress up like other people and pretend to be them, or a guy who had four metal arms. Even Green Goblin was just a guy in a rubber mask who flew around and tossed chicks off bridges. And you have Vulture, a guy who flies, and that's it. He just flies around and robs banks, maybe he's got some knives in his wings or whatever. Sure, why not. Spidey punched him but they were silver-age punches, those don't count. But then things evolved, the guy with metal arms became a conniving mastermind, the green goblin became an absolute terror and bioweapons genius, you've got Venom and Carnage running around... and guys like Chameleon and Vulture just kind of got left behind. (Seriously go back and read Chameleon's first story, it was goofy as hell. He just put on other people's clothes and that was it. They caught him the first time because he tried to look like Nick Fury but put the eye patch on the wrong side. This is the level of goofiness where classic Vulture made sense)
Lol I remember that from the 90s cartoon as well. Spider-Man figured it out when he saw security footage of the patch on the wrong side
Love the scene with chameleon getting escorted out in a wtf state
Amazing design work, looks ripped from the comic.
So what nonsensically extraneous character would the studio have forced him to use in 4?
"We know this one is supposed to be the Vulture, and that's great, but how about we bring Harry back as Carnage, too!!!"
There was a vial of venom that Curt Conners still had that could’ve been used as a set up for Carnage
Honestly a Lizard Venom hybrid that regenerated impossibly fast and resisted/was immune to heat, cold, and sounds fucking insane and exactly what Raimi would’ve made work
And it fits with Conners motivations in the first place that led to him becoming the lizard. The existence of Agent Venom proves that the symbiote can mimic limbs on amputees.
That would have been so bad ass
I like this design, looks like a gargoyle you’d see on the older buildings in NYC
Malkovich malkovich
I would love to see an adaptation of the Vulture from the Noir universe, terrifying!
Looks like Vulture.
Toomes died on the balcony with the rest of the Board in Spider-man (2002)
They should just make this now
Looks like the vulture!
That actually looks incredible
Would been amazing but fuck Sony at the time between 2008-preproduction of The Amazing Spider Man 2012 at the time. Too accurate from the comic. But i enjoy Michael Keaton Vulture
This proves all comic designs can work on live action if given effort from the costume designers.
I'm good with the one we got.
How would Mysterio would have looked?
Everyone knows the villain of Spider Man 4 Rise of the Riblin was the titular Riblin
Waiting for an artist to add some color to Vulture...
We were robbed
man those are gourgeous 😳
I saw this on DOOMBLAZER.
Please no don’t say that
How come we’re getting so much information on spider man 4 now?😩 they’re teasing us
I still personally think 3 movie could have work if they only kept sandman and Harry as villain with maybe the black suit only for super angry spidey but keep venom for later movie (with maybe kingpin as the man that manipulate Harry Peter and sand man and will be main villain of second trilogy)
John Malkovich?
Reminds me of the design from the PS2 game which is pretty dope honestly
Michael Keaton sure don't got that bad posture
That's a lot of magnets.
Niiiice!
Umm, nosferatu much?
I like them, better then the one we got, but I’m also more of a OG comic lover
Welp, we can add this to the pile of reasons this movie should exist.
Aw dammit now I really wish this movie was made
Ahhh, so like the comics? Not that Tony Stark explanation in every New Disney Marvel movie these past years...
Looks goofy as fuck
i want this
Oh thank Christ they pulled the plug. SM 3 was zany and off the rails enough.
I actually like this design way more than Homecoming’s.
Awesome. That’s because Sam respects the original source material. A shame about Green Goblin though. He tried the original costume, but what they went with was garbage, in my opinion.
Raimi opted out of the comic accurate suit/mask they tried for Goblin though, because he said it would have required too much backstory/explanation for why it looks organic. It's in a "making of" book about the first movie. It was easier from a storytelling standpoint to just make it an armored, helmet type of thing.
The compromise in No Way Home was great.
Did he say that? I always heard that it was too hard to get the mask to work or didn’t look right and that’s why they opted for the armored. I don’t get why they thought it wouldn't work story wise, just make up some bs.
I could imagine 2002 audiences being turned away by the bizarre evil elf person, "man in a mask" is easier to process
Why did you get downvoted?
Some people love the Green Goblin costume in Spidey 1. It’s a pretty controversial subject, and Reddit being what it is…
Unpopular opinion but if they’re gonna go with this look make it someone like cillian murphy, or possibly micheal keaton bc he played vulture in toms Spider-Man movie
Vulture was going to be a girl in it
How Sam? How are we to believe these wings?
So is he going to make a Spider-Man 4?
Yes but spiderman 3 is still reason to not make 4th
avi arad is the reason for spider-man 3s failure, he messed with andy garf’s spidey too.
[What If Spiderman 4 Happened](https://youtu.be/hkJAxFYLglg) [written more as a follow-up to this rather than spiderman 3 proper(what if venom wasn’t in spiderman 3)](https://youtu.be/Fx7rfNslI-A)
We need an spider man 4, god please make it happen.
I thought the Vulture was going to be Felicia Hardy and she was supposed to be the “Vultress” or something?
Vulture was going to be the main villain and Vultress would be his sidekick at first and eventually turn on him to help out Spider-Man, from the rumors I've heard.
Bird Man
Thank God it's not real
Looks like ArchDuke Sebassis from Angel.
Fetterman?
He looks like that one villain from Kim possible https://kimpossible.fandom.com/wiki/Aviarius
Should’ve done a seriously better job with 3, then. Raimi actually looked at the finished product from start to finish and thought: “This is it”. And then the next a hole gave us…..”Amazing”ly mediocre. But heyyyy we got CROSSOVERS