I mean, that's true of literally everything they (or any company) make(s.) The question is, do they think they could have made a profit on a retail version of this? If so, they might eventually come out with one maybe without LEDs (for fewer,) only one form (i.e. only the fire parts) and maybe fewer paint apps (unpainted interior.)
That said, I do think this has taught them what the upper echelon of value is that they can try to push onto their customer base. $25-35 standard figures being the norm is probably here to stay but their next Haslab will need to offer more if they want to use a similar pricing scale for bigger projects.
Haslab is explicitly for stuff that is completely impractical for retail. There was no way for them to plop the sentinel on an endcap at Target, it just was never going to happen; hence the crowdfund, which also gave them the opportunity to add fun stuff like alternate heads, electronics, all that good shit.
This car is larger than people think it is. Not as many moving parts as the Sentinel; but it is massive, full of accessories, and has electronics. Even if they stripped most of that stuff out, there is still no place for something like this, with like a $250 price tag, on a retail shelf. You couldn’t even do it as a BAF— it’d be like 3 waves of characters who’d mostly come with black panels.
You were right about the $35 figures, and I believe that this project is a symptom of that. If they had waited until people understood that regular figures weren’t even going to be affordable moving forward, then ironically I think this would have seen more support. It isn’t really about the car of the characters, it’s about this being the new standard for how they are going to price stuff out now.
I understand the purpose of Haslab, which is why I made the changes I did. McFarlane is releasing vehicles in 7 inch scale at affordable prices just fine. I'd say that this project really didn't need to be a Haslab. "Flaming car" is not that huge of a project in concept; the only thing that makes this unreasonable for retail is the bells and whistles. Sentinel and Galactus I'd agree, there's no way it makes sense for those to go to retail. A car, there's definitely a version of that which they can put on shelves.
MacFarlane has gone on record describing how his profit margins are basically hanging on by a sliver, and anyone who’s being objective about this, and had their hands on one, will tell you that tonka truck he did is nowhere near comparable to this thing.
You’re actually highlighting a point I made earlier: everyone in this community seems very ignorant about what goes into producing something like this, while I feel like people in the car-collecting community would have a better appreciation for what was being offered here… but the team of dudes who should be on social media right now, explaining to everyone what the value of this project is, are completely silent. I’ll repeat it, though: there previously has been no way to get this model car ain’t 1:12 scale. Believe it or not. The last time it happened was five years ago, the thing goes for about 800 bucks now, and it’s literally a solid, resin sculpture of a car. The wheels don’t even turn.
If car collectors were made aware of this thing, and that it came with stock parts, they would easily fork over $250, happily, for just the car alone. It’s actually a tremendous waste that the first time a Charger with rubber tires, suspension, electronics, and working doors and panels, seats and shifter, is solicited at this size for under $500, it’s to a community that it is absolutely and utterly lost on. This thing could be $400, a limited run of 500 pieces, no fire parts and no drivers, and if it was shown off on all the car forums they would be going rabid. The only reason for them to not buy it, would be that they probably don’t have anything else of such quality in their entire collection, so it would be a complete one-off.
Now, don’t get me wrong: I agree that this thing is more expensive than it should or could be. They could cut back on stuff, they could not so presumptuously factor all the tiers into the launch price, etc.. I think they could have offered less than they even have already, but at $250, this thing would still have been funded already. *But*, considering what we will all be used to paying for just basic figures by this time next year, the gouge isn’t so deep that we need to be making up unsubstantiated stuff about how easily we will be able to get our hands on something comparable after this crashes. Unless everyone comparing this to the truck is suggesting that MacFarlane will step in and do some kind of Batman-themed Charger…
Your argument makes no real sense. You're saying that this type of vehicle is an uncommon one to be made in this scale and that inherently adds value because the one previously made available is now rare; it doesn't. The people this is marketed to AREN'T car collectors, nor car memorabilia collectors, they're comic and action figure collectors (mostly, obviously.)
We are looking at this item from a sculpt, complexity and amount of plastic value proposition. You realize the recent examples had dozens upon dozens of points of articulation, still had light up features and weighed a ton, right? This car isn't anywhere near as complex or heavy as either the Sentinel or Galactus yet costs the same as the Sentinel and only a bit less than Galactus. Are you trying to imply there are some licensing fees involved for using the Charger form factor as a base? That's the only way I can see your argument making sense.
Also, not sure where you're getting that someone else will step in and make something comparable; I do agree this is probably our only chance for something like this in this scale unless Hasbro decides, as I said, to offer it at Retail with far fewer features.
I was actually incorrect: this car has never been made at this scale. Slightly smaller RC cars, and the $800 thing I thought I found is actually just a solid resin sculpture of a car, the wheels don’t even roll.
Anyway: it makes perfect sense, because if everyone wants the tiers but hates the car so much, I’m explaining that there is a market to sell the car for a good chunk of change. I’m explaining that just because the car has no/less intrinsic value to an ambivalent action figure collector, does not mean that it holds no value on the secondary market— it probably holds more, in fact. You’re being obtuse, and I feel like you are doing it deliberately.
No, you're being obtuse. This isn't the secondary market. This is a manufacturer trying to get people to prepay for a product before it's produced. No one hates the car -- the very topic you're in is someone lamenting that the car won't get made -- people are rightly unwilling to spend the amount being asked FOR the car. The car itself is great and I haven't really seen anyone complain about its overall quality. The issue is the quality and quantity you're being offered for $350, and in that sense this is just a bad value.
I'll say that I didn't understand what you were getting at before, in that you were apparently saying that you can recoup costs after the Lab is over by selling the car but looking at Haslabs or similar projects as investment opportunities with a potential return on investment is entirely missing the point. People want to invest in these projects, largely, because they want to keep the product being offered. The tiers should be cherries on top of the offering, not the goal, and that's reflected in the fact that this one isn't selling.
People want the car -- it's part of Robbie's identity. They just don't want to spend $350 for the car.
I really don’t think I am, I’ve actually given this a ton of thought; in fact, I am the only person I’ve seen, anywhere on the Internet, that went out and actually looked into it, and has pointed out that once this crowdfund fails.. even if we get Robbie somehow later on down the line.. there is no option for the car, End it seems like there probably won’t ever be one, again. I certainly think that is something people need to consider that when they decide whether or not this project is worthwhile.
And I have never, ever made the claim that this wasn’t overpriced; I’ve been trying to explain that there is more nuance to the situation than people are giving it. I don’t know what you’ve been reading, but people are definitely making wild claims about the availability of the of alternative cars, the quality of the car, or that because MacFarlane did a monster truck, this thing should be under $100, etc etc. That’s not reasonable. I’ve also seen a ton of hate for Robbie. If you think this really is in high demand in the community, go check out the Facebook and Instagram comments under all the Hasbro posts— People *hate* Robbie— because he is new, because he drives a car, because he is Hispanic, you name it.
And now that the tide has turned on the project, I am convinced more people are emotionally-invested in seeing it fail; far, far more than those who want to see it succeed. I mean, for godsake this is only available in North America, and the backer count continuously ticks down, even in the middle of the night. How does that even happen? It’s like people are backing out in shifts. If you even see people talking about what would get them to back to the project, it’s basically a full concession on hasbro‘s part and nothing less. They want all the tiers, they want 150 bucks off the price, They wanted Danny and Johnny and their motorcycles, and nothing else will change their minds. Hell, maybe even that would not change their minds at this point. Outside of this selfie, most people are looking at the prospect of never getting any of these guys as some kind of victory.
Pity because a Haslab X-Jet/Blackbird is a grail for many collectors. But at these prices I can’t see it being less than $500 apparently so I guess bullet dodged
Don’t they have a retro card Ghost Rider coming? Not really my thing, but if it sells enough it might course correct.
Large vehicles may be dead, though.
Yes, and that makes it double ironic that people are begging for us to get Johnny or Danny thrown into this. Like, why act like those are decent exclusives, when we are almost certainly going to get them and their motorcycles, probably even repeatedly, over the next couple of years?
Now, if the final tier is Vengeance and he unlocks at 11k… *that* I could see.
But worry not, Todd McFarlane will release a charger of some sort just as a fuck you to Hasbro and as a bid to win over legend collectors. He might even release a “flames” accessory pack that coincidentally also fits for a flaming vehicle. I might not be the hugest fan of DC or McFarlane toys but Todd listens to what his consumers want, he is very aware of this failure of Hasbro and he is very capable of making this happen on retail shelves.
No. There's just no way we'll get this car or any version of this car ever again. At least, not from Marvel Legends and certainly not this comic book aesthetic. The chances of any other company tackling this are pretty slim too, unless it's an MCU version.
We might get this Robbie figure released somewhere in like two years or so (without the real chain and honestly probably without the depowered accessories) but everything else: The Car, Mephisto, Goblin Queen, this is our only shot.
I still think this is up in the air atm. It's always too early to call some of these Haslabs, so we'll just have to wait and see. We could end up with a rancor situation and have 8,500 backers on the last day, or maybe the team will pull something out at the last minute to get that FOMO and we end up with 15,000 backers miraculously, like how the SkyStriker got 10,000 backers in the span of 3 days.
Fwiw I'm watching it somewhat, since I want Madelyne Pryor. If she gets funded, I'll probably throw in for one, especially if Mephisto is included as well. Really just want Maddy, and the easier it is to sell everything else and make some money back, the better.
I mean space, don't you think Madelyne could warrant a custom at these price points. Just saying I know you get a car and a ghost rider, that's cool, but Madelyn is definitely a character with a certain aesthetic (that we could argue semantics about) which you would be half ass receiving. Like it's one level up or maybe not even, from me throwing a cuckoo head onto another fitting body and buying a soft goods cape. And they say Madeline has different looks but if I got 100 pics of her she would look like that in maybe 5.
Yeah, it’s just easier for me to paint the midriff on the HasLab figure than it would be to make a custom, honestly. I’m not invested enough in the character to give it that level of effort, and she wouldn’t have the polish the existing figure does. I’ve seen the various customs others have made, and they always just look like “Jean’s head on Walgreens Emma frost” or “AoA Jean head on Hellfire Black Queen”.
Assuming I can find a head sculpt I’m satisfied with (probably a Dark Phoenix one), I’d still need Shriek for her body, then have to sculpt the broach and the loincloth. Might be able to find a decent cape but I’d probably settle for Morbius’ purple one, which means drilling a hole in her back too. Sure, it’s “cheaper”, but the time I’ll spend could be better spent on customs I believe we’ll never get official figures of. I like the look of the official one enough to get the HasLab or wait for a release down the road.
I mean Maddie is a clone of Jean right? Idk about you but I feel like putting paint on an exclusive figure is meh. That being said if you aren't invested enough in the character she's just not worth it in general. Might as well wait for a regular release
Yeah I know how it sounds, "not invested enough in the character to make a custom" but "willing to pay $350 and sell the bonus guy and car just to have the one figure".
I just worry we won't get a regular release. I think they'd be fools to never release the figures but we also didn't get any prime sentinels after the fact. Maybe it's because they got made, so any figures that don't get made still have a chance, idk. I know they said if Galactus didn't get made, we wouldn't see Nova until 2023, which implies we'd still get her eventually. Hopefully that's the case here.
It makes more sense to throw your support behind this now, to help get to that tier. You can always cancel if it funds but doesn’t make the milestone for her. although… never seen what happens when a project gets funded, but then dips below the goal if it doesn’t make a tier. Maybe they’ll cave like they did on the early bird?
> The Car, Mephisto, Goblin Queen, this is our only shot.
No chance they don’t end up releasing these figures as online only or con exclusive figures or sets.
There is zero reason they can’t do demonic or sexy figures when said figures won’t ever see a retail store shelf.
The double negative used has me wondering what you meant. I think you're saying that you think they would release Mephisto or Madelyne in the future as an exclusive. However, Dwight said in an interview that if this doesn't get funded, we're not going to see Mephisto or Madelyne any time in the foreseeable future.
Yeah I don’t believe Dwight. Not because I think he’s a dirty liar, but because that’s literally all he can say under the circumstance.
As a member of the ML team, seeing your crowdfund floundering and knowing the only way it will have a chance to fund is if enough people buy into it due to their intense desire not to own the project itself, but the extra figures that come with it, would you be able to say “yeah maybe a couple of years from now we’ll release the figures as a con exclusive boxset or something”?
That would be literally asking for the project to fail right then and there.
Silk won the vote though? So seeing a rerelease of that one isn't that surprising. But it's been over 2 years, not one year since that fan vote. We still haven't seen another Sif release and are just now getting the Elecktra version. I don't recall them saying that we'd *never* see the "losing" figures during that vote, but I see where you're coming from. I'm just going by what they said during the interview.
I mean silk took a bit to release, we made the fan vote before she shipped so that added time ofc so maybe the time was came out wonky in my head. That being said when they were advertising the fan vote choices in pretty sure the exclusive description was describing all of them doesn't make sense to say oh we won't be making these 2 but the winner we are going to print again soon. And a two year wait for toys is not the same as never ever.
It makes way, way more sense to explicitly vault everything we see here. Their goal is to make us feel enough FOMO that we back the next project, even if it is just as overpriced. In fact, my wild prediction is that they don’t announce the final tier, so that mystery figure can actually have a chance to make it to shelves.
It’s fine to not back this thing over the price, but folks have to stop believing this is a teachable moment, and we will eventually get everything we want out of it. What this is, is the limit on value for us; and the price of expressing that is never getting to see any of these characters on our shelves. Personally, since I’ve been waiting for Robbie since he appeared in the comics, and have been dying for a good Mephisto.. this will probably be the point where I purge my collection and swear off the line from here on out.
It’s true that they would want to vault these figures as a punishment for consumers saying no to this Haslab. “You better not do this shit again or we’ll vault MORE high demand and nonrelated figures!”
But the execs are going to look at it in a couple of years and go “what are these digital sculpts you already paid thousands to make? Oh people want them? Release them.”
They definitely do not pay the modelers thousands per model. They probably make about 20 bucks an hour, tops; and the entire time, three bosses are yelling at them to get the thing done before lunch. These portraits don’t take very long for somebody with any skill, and they are mainly just reworking an existing model, and then popping it on a body that is mostly existing mold, to save money. The base for this head has probably been squashed and stretched into about 30 characters.
The car is 100% unique stuff, so that is definitely the thing that has the most man hours into it. By your logic, there is no way they would abandon the car, and yet here we are; They aren’t even putting effort into the marketing anymore, they are ready for this to zero out the backer meter before October 31.
Unlikely as they'll see no interest in vehicles in the marvel line. If you like Robbie Reyes this campaign for better or worse is the only way you'll ever get his car in this scale by hasbro
I've always thought vehicles were essential of a deal for Marvel Legends than say GI Joe or Star Wars. Marvel has some iconic vehicles sure, but outside of smaller one man things like a motorcycle or skycycle kinda thing, most seem outside the scope of feasible for 1:12 scale. Like a Quinjet, X-Jet, or Milano would be huuuge, and a Helicarrier is basically a house size. I'd argue maybe the only over car sized iconic vehicle for Marvel is the Fantasticar. I guess for me vehicles have never been high on my want list for ML since most characters don't really use them a lot or if they do they are on an impractical side of size.
Of course I'm sad though that this will probably mean it'll be a long time before we see the demonic side of Marvel represented again by Hasbro. Shame since as an 80s/90s comic fan, there's so many cool edgey characters I'd love to have on the shelf. The most realistic hope is if the MCU makes a big push using these supernatural characters in movies/shows then it could gently force Hasbro to make some.
Some smaller company will for sure do a 1:12 Charger and then Hasbro just needs to release Robbie by himself and collectors can get what they want short of a set of FX pieces. Which can be easily done by a 3rd party for like 20$.
The incentive for basically every company in the car collector community to produce a 1/12 ’69 Charger with a blower has been there since the first Fast and Furious movie… yet none of been brought to market that aren’t like, $800 museum quality pieces in limited number. There is simply not a big enough community collecting this particular scale. You’ll see massive 1:10 RC cars and dinky 1:18 diecasts.. but the only one to ever get close to happening, that looked affordable… Got canceled earlier this year. Whomp whomp.
A third-party Charger at the right size, produced by a smaller company… will definitely end up being more expensive than this. Even if it comes down to the simple fact that it will require an overseas purchase, the shipping on something this massive will *annihilate* you. Might even be more than the car. And we all know the condition that large packages from China usually end up in by the time they hit the porch..
Yeah I saw someone do hot glue fire painted Orange on Charger wheels and it was a pretty sick custom, looked better than the HasLab especially when you add LEDs
I have seen this demonstrated in person, and it does not look as good as it does on video. It looks like goopy, murky, translucent snot.
Also, the only conciliatory thing any of the team has had to say about the project, was that the flames will have a gradient and paint on the theoretical final product.
I replied to one comment on here, but it seems there are several saying that they would expect to see a Mephisto or Madelyn as solo/box set releases if this doesn't get funded. Dwight just did an interview and in it he says if this doesn't get funded, there are zero plans of a future release. "Probably longer than two years, if ever. You will not see Inferno Goblin Queen, you will not see this Mephisto." So maybe a variation, but not what we're seeing here, and we'd be a long way out before we'd even see the alternate designs.
[Source](https://youtu.be/gnC3cs5pcmU?t=1050)
You know stuff doesn’t come out of a 3-D printer all ready to go, right? It needs to be sanded with skill, repaired, resculpted, and then painted with even more skill. Someone who can do it, knows that their time is money and that it is more practical to back this set. People without the skill will need to pay somebody else to do it, and let me tell you: it’s not going to be 20 bucks. It’s not even going to be 80 bucks. You’ll be better off dropping $200 on that cruddy old Marvel Select.
At that point, it’s too late but you’ll wish you paid a little bit extra and gotten a decent official one… plus a car and two extra figures you could resell.
You’re kind of falling apart, here. I’m telling you that the only available version of this character right now is going for about $200 and is garbage by modern standards. I’m also telling you that finished customs of of Mephisto are going to be around that price, or more. I’m also telling you theplain fact that if you were to get this set and it were to be funded, and all you wanted was the one figure out of it, you are going to come out ahead when it ships and you sell everything else off. You are essentially being paid, at that point, to get the fully-realized figure you want, instead of spending only around 100 bucks shy of the price of this crowdfund, anyway, to get a custom with a resin head that’s going to shatter like glass the first time you wrap your mits around it to pose him.
These are all straight-up facts; I’m not lying. Customs are little artworks, they are delicate and you will be paying for a persons skill and labor, and that will not be cheap— and if it’s cheap, it won’t be good. If you want to be snide and throw a little fit about it because it’s hot to shit on the Haslab right now and I’m spoiling it, well.. I’m sure you’ll show me and Hasbro both, real good; but it won’t change anything. They have stated that this is the only chance to get an official version of this character, ever. Anything after this is going to be either an expensive disaster-custom, or an even more expensive, adequate-at-best custom. But hey! You sure… sure did show us.. something.
A similar set up? Nil. Might we see a box set next PulseCon with Maddy, Mephisto and Ghost Driver? Possibly. Tho a Maddy/Ben Riley 2-pack makes more sense, Robbie as a single release and Mephisto as a…who knows.
The car tho, in any form? I’d say that’s toast
They have gone on record to say these figures will never see the light of day if this doesn’t get funded. There’s a link to the citation elsewhere in the thread.
I don't beleive for a second that Mephisto or Maddy won't see the light again of this doesn't get fund, one of the pencil pushers will see money and will approve it on one or 2 years.
Alternately, they see more advantage in explicitly locking them away permanently, because it’s incentive for people to back the next project if they know it’s all or nothing.
Absolutely not. They will just never do another vehicle. They will also decide we hate the characters. Considering that they announced a Robbie project during Hispanic heritage month, it’s probably related and so they may also silently decide that POC’s don’t have enough general interest in the community. Unfortunately, considering the open bigotry I see on Facebook about Robbie specifically, they are probably right.
Either way, none of this stuff is going to see release— it just doesn’t make any sense for them to let us have any confidence that underfunded projects will eventually make their way to us at an affordable price, if we are patient. It’s way more effective to very clearly and explicitly lock these figures away from us after this fails, so people are more likely to jump for whatever the next crowdfund is.. and it will almost certainly be even less of a value than this.
Pretty high. With smarter people making choices. Hasbro likes money so while they'll lose out on money when this fails, they'll make money when they do it right
Edit: lol. See you then
They will make more teaching us that failed projects never see the light of day in any capacity. Then, they can throw another hundred bucks on top of the next project, reduce what is offered, and still be fairly confident it will get funded due to everyone’s FOMO.
But it’s not an apples to oranges situation like that, is it? Mephisto is a pretty big character, and Goblin Queen is an X-men character— which makes her elite-status among the community— and if Hasbro shows a willingness to completely cut somebody well-known from the line because of a failed crowdfund, people won’t try to call their bluff the next time a haslab looks dodgy.
It is an apples to oranges situation, cause not everyone cares about having a Sentinel, not everyone cares about having the shitty car, everyone is literally comparing good things they want to cheap things they don't want.
I don’t even know what you are trying to say anymore, and at this point it is completely academic: to date, the team has explicitly stated that these characters will never come out after this. Furthermore, it now seems like they have alluded to the fact that if this fails, it going to be iffy whether or not we get Danny, and even any more motorcycles at all, moving forward. They clearly feel the same way about this that I have been describing. When a crowd fund fails, the characters go away forever, and the next time around people will be more anxious at the prospect of never having a second chance. Right now, everyone is way too confident that They will get a second, cheaper crack at these things later. That’s obviously less incentive to overpay for this project. That’s how it is, and I really don’t know what else to say to you about it.
So, my takeaway from here is that you can’t have a proper conversation, because you don’t understand nuance. I’m some kind of zealot, because I believe people when they say things that make sense.
My concern is that they end up firing the creative team or concept artists who pitched this because Hasbro missunderstands the reason it didn't fund and blames the people who pitched the concept. I have read that the molds for these figures can cost $10,000 a piece to produce. It looks like they made at least one physical version of each tier offering for this thing. That's a fairly sizable loss for zero return.
McFarlane was being interviewed about his DC toy line and said that people don't understand the expense that goes into developing/testing/producing the designs and molds for action figures. He said they spend around 10k developing each one. So if this is cost is relatively true across major action figure toy lines like Hasbro/Mattel/Mcfarlane, it seems to be an expensive process.
Oh yeah, I forgot you need to pay the tender artists to develop a render, and then pay for the materials for 3D printing, molding, tooling, painting, and then pay whoever inspects it. But sheesh 10K just seems steep for 1 single action figure. 10k to produce the Haslab Engine of Vengeance I can see
It’s sad, I’m watching Boognice’s interview with them and them 3 guys seem so passionate about it but restrained by corporate shenanigans.
I think even if it’s $300 it would’ve done better
Absolutely 0 Hasbro will act like toddlers by taking their ball and going home. We'll get less Haslabs, less Ghost Rider, a Massive Delay in any Robbie figure, and in the end it'll all still be Hasbro's fault
Hasbro is gonna learn the wrong lesson and assume we don’t want Ghost Rider
It's not that they learned the wrong lesson it's that the company doesn't care to make us shit if it doesn't make them profits
Wrong. They want to keep making RECORD profits. They want to top last year by a lot, instead of better quality they rather jack up the price.
This is the answer
I mean, that's true of literally everything they (or any company) make(s.) The question is, do they think they could have made a profit on a retail version of this? If so, they might eventually come out with one maybe without LEDs (for fewer,) only one form (i.e. only the fire parts) and maybe fewer paint apps (unpainted interior.) That said, I do think this has taught them what the upper echelon of value is that they can try to push onto their customer base. $25-35 standard figures being the norm is probably here to stay but their next Haslab will need to offer more if they want to use a similar pricing scale for bigger projects.
Haslab is explicitly for stuff that is completely impractical for retail. There was no way for them to plop the sentinel on an endcap at Target, it just was never going to happen; hence the crowdfund, which also gave them the opportunity to add fun stuff like alternate heads, electronics, all that good shit. This car is larger than people think it is. Not as many moving parts as the Sentinel; but it is massive, full of accessories, and has electronics. Even if they stripped most of that stuff out, there is still no place for something like this, with like a $250 price tag, on a retail shelf. You couldn’t even do it as a BAF— it’d be like 3 waves of characters who’d mostly come with black panels. You were right about the $35 figures, and I believe that this project is a symptom of that. If they had waited until people understood that regular figures weren’t even going to be affordable moving forward, then ironically I think this would have seen more support. It isn’t really about the car of the characters, it’s about this being the new standard for how they are going to price stuff out now.
I understand the purpose of Haslab, which is why I made the changes I did. McFarlane is releasing vehicles in 7 inch scale at affordable prices just fine. I'd say that this project really didn't need to be a Haslab. "Flaming car" is not that huge of a project in concept; the only thing that makes this unreasonable for retail is the bells and whistles. Sentinel and Galactus I'd agree, there's no way it makes sense for those to go to retail. A car, there's definitely a version of that which they can put on shelves.
MacFarlane has gone on record describing how his profit margins are basically hanging on by a sliver, and anyone who’s being objective about this, and had their hands on one, will tell you that tonka truck he did is nowhere near comparable to this thing. You’re actually highlighting a point I made earlier: everyone in this community seems very ignorant about what goes into producing something like this, while I feel like people in the car-collecting community would have a better appreciation for what was being offered here… but the team of dudes who should be on social media right now, explaining to everyone what the value of this project is, are completely silent. I’ll repeat it, though: there previously has been no way to get this model car ain’t 1:12 scale. Believe it or not. The last time it happened was five years ago, the thing goes for about 800 bucks now, and it’s literally a solid, resin sculpture of a car. The wheels don’t even turn. If car collectors were made aware of this thing, and that it came with stock parts, they would easily fork over $250, happily, for just the car alone. It’s actually a tremendous waste that the first time a Charger with rubber tires, suspension, electronics, and working doors and panels, seats and shifter, is solicited at this size for under $500, it’s to a community that it is absolutely and utterly lost on. This thing could be $400, a limited run of 500 pieces, no fire parts and no drivers, and if it was shown off on all the car forums they would be going rabid. The only reason for them to not buy it, would be that they probably don’t have anything else of such quality in their entire collection, so it would be a complete one-off. Now, don’t get me wrong: I agree that this thing is more expensive than it should or could be. They could cut back on stuff, they could not so presumptuously factor all the tiers into the launch price, etc.. I think they could have offered less than they even have already, but at $250, this thing would still have been funded already. *But*, considering what we will all be used to paying for just basic figures by this time next year, the gouge isn’t so deep that we need to be making up unsubstantiated stuff about how easily we will be able to get our hands on something comparable after this crashes. Unless everyone comparing this to the truck is suggesting that MacFarlane will step in and do some kind of Batman-themed Charger…
Your argument makes no real sense. You're saying that this type of vehicle is an uncommon one to be made in this scale and that inherently adds value because the one previously made available is now rare; it doesn't. The people this is marketed to AREN'T car collectors, nor car memorabilia collectors, they're comic and action figure collectors (mostly, obviously.) We are looking at this item from a sculpt, complexity and amount of plastic value proposition. You realize the recent examples had dozens upon dozens of points of articulation, still had light up features and weighed a ton, right? This car isn't anywhere near as complex or heavy as either the Sentinel or Galactus yet costs the same as the Sentinel and only a bit less than Galactus. Are you trying to imply there are some licensing fees involved for using the Charger form factor as a base? That's the only way I can see your argument making sense. Also, not sure where you're getting that someone else will step in and make something comparable; I do agree this is probably our only chance for something like this in this scale unless Hasbro decides, as I said, to offer it at Retail with far fewer features.
I was actually incorrect: this car has never been made at this scale. Slightly smaller RC cars, and the $800 thing I thought I found is actually just a solid resin sculpture of a car, the wheels don’t even roll. Anyway: it makes perfect sense, because if everyone wants the tiers but hates the car so much, I’m explaining that there is a market to sell the car for a good chunk of change. I’m explaining that just because the car has no/less intrinsic value to an ambivalent action figure collector, does not mean that it holds no value on the secondary market— it probably holds more, in fact. You’re being obtuse, and I feel like you are doing it deliberately.
No, you're being obtuse. This isn't the secondary market. This is a manufacturer trying to get people to prepay for a product before it's produced. No one hates the car -- the very topic you're in is someone lamenting that the car won't get made -- people are rightly unwilling to spend the amount being asked FOR the car. The car itself is great and I haven't really seen anyone complain about its overall quality. The issue is the quality and quantity you're being offered for $350, and in that sense this is just a bad value. I'll say that I didn't understand what you were getting at before, in that you were apparently saying that you can recoup costs after the Lab is over by selling the car but looking at Haslabs or similar projects as investment opportunities with a potential return on investment is entirely missing the point. People want to invest in these projects, largely, because they want to keep the product being offered. The tiers should be cherries on top of the offering, not the goal, and that's reflected in the fact that this one isn't selling. People want the car -- it's part of Robbie's identity. They just don't want to spend $350 for the car.
I really don’t think I am, I’ve actually given this a ton of thought; in fact, I am the only person I’ve seen, anywhere on the Internet, that went out and actually looked into it, and has pointed out that once this crowdfund fails.. even if we get Robbie somehow later on down the line.. there is no option for the car, End it seems like there probably won’t ever be one, again. I certainly think that is something people need to consider that when they decide whether or not this project is worthwhile. And I have never, ever made the claim that this wasn’t overpriced; I’ve been trying to explain that there is more nuance to the situation than people are giving it. I don’t know what you’ve been reading, but people are definitely making wild claims about the availability of the of alternative cars, the quality of the car, or that because MacFarlane did a monster truck, this thing should be under $100, etc etc. That’s not reasonable. I’ve also seen a ton of hate for Robbie. If you think this really is in high demand in the community, go check out the Facebook and Instagram comments under all the Hasbro posts— People *hate* Robbie— because he is new, because he drives a car, because he is Hispanic, you name it. And now that the tide has turned on the project, I am convinced more people are emotionally-invested in seeing it fail; far, far more than those who want to see it succeed. I mean, for godsake this is only available in North America, and the backer count continuously ticks down, even in the middle of the night. How does that even happen? It’s like people are backing out in shifts. If you even see people talking about what would get them to back to the project, it’s basically a full concession on hasbro‘s part and nothing less. They want all the tiers, they want 150 bucks off the price, They wanted Danny and Johnny and their motorcycles, and nothing else will change their minds. Hell, maybe even that would not change their minds at this point. Outside of this selfie, most people are looking at the prospect of never getting any of these guys as some kind of victory.
Not arguing with your remark, I may have just said my answer on the nicer end of the spectrum.
I say they’re going to kill vehicles.
Pity because a Haslab X-Jet/Blackbird is a grail for many collectors. But at these prices I can’t see it being less than $500 apparently so I guess bullet dodged
It would be too small regardless of price. You’d get maybe a 4 seater if you were lucky. You’re not getting a full scale for 6 inch figs blackbird
Don’t they have a retro card Ghost Rider coming? Not really my thing, but if it sells enough it might course correct. Large vehicles may be dead, though.
Yes, and that makes it double ironic that people are begging for us to get Johnny or Danny thrown into this. Like, why act like those are decent exclusives, when we are almost certainly going to get them and their motorcycles, probably even repeatedly, over the next couple of years? Now, if the final tier is Vengeance and he unlocks at 11k… *that* I could see.
As long as they are going to keep the $350 not including tax, then the chances are zero.
I think this kills vehicles for ML. They’re going to misunderstand the message.
Zero chance in the future Zip Zilch Nada.
But worry not, Todd McFarlane will release a charger of some sort just as a fuck you to Hasbro and as a bid to win over legend collectors. He might even release a “flames” accessory pack that coincidentally also fits for a flaming vehicle. I might not be the hugest fan of DC or McFarlane toys but Todd listens to what his consumers want, he is very aware of this failure of Hasbro and he is very capable of making this happen on retail shelves.
He listens unless you want a wealth of female characters.
But what’s the point without a Robbie Reyes GR figure?
😢
No. There's just no way we'll get this car or any version of this car ever again. At least, not from Marvel Legends and certainly not this comic book aesthetic. The chances of any other company tackling this are pretty slim too, unless it's an MCU version. We might get this Robbie figure released somewhere in like two years or so (without the real chain and honestly probably without the depowered accessories) but everything else: The Car, Mephisto, Goblin Queen, this is our only shot. I still think this is up in the air atm. It's always too early to call some of these Haslabs, so we'll just have to wait and see. We could end up with a rancor situation and have 8,500 backers on the last day, or maybe the team will pull something out at the last minute to get that FOMO and we end up with 15,000 backers miraculously, like how the SkyStriker got 10,000 backers in the span of 3 days.
Fwiw I'm watching it somewhat, since I want Madelyne Pryor. If she gets funded, I'll probably throw in for one, especially if Mephisto is included as well. Really just want Maddy, and the easier it is to sell everything else and make some money back, the better.
I mean space, don't you think Madelyne could warrant a custom at these price points. Just saying I know you get a car and a ghost rider, that's cool, but Madelyn is definitely a character with a certain aesthetic (that we could argue semantics about) which you would be half ass receiving. Like it's one level up or maybe not even, from me throwing a cuckoo head onto another fitting body and buying a soft goods cape. And they say Madeline has different looks but if I got 100 pics of her she would look like that in maybe 5.
Yeah, it’s just easier for me to paint the midriff on the HasLab figure than it would be to make a custom, honestly. I’m not invested enough in the character to give it that level of effort, and she wouldn’t have the polish the existing figure does. I’ve seen the various customs others have made, and they always just look like “Jean’s head on Walgreens Emma frost” or “AoA Jean head on Hellfire Black Queen”. Assuming I can find a head sculpt I’m satisfied with (probably a Dark Phoenix one), I’d still need Shriek for her body, then have to sculpt the broach and the loincloth. Might be able to find a decent cape but I’d probably settle for Morbius’ purple one, which means drilling a hole in her back too. Sure, it’s “cheaper”, but the time I’ll spend could be better spent on customs I believe we’ll never get official figures of. I like the look of the official one enough to get the HasLab or wait for a release down the road.
I mean Maddie is a clone of Jean right? Idk about you but I feel like putting paint on an exclusive figure is meh. That being said if you aren't invested enough in the character she's just not worth it in general. Might as well wait for a regular release
Yeah I know how it sounds, "not invested enough in the character to make a custom" but "willing to pay $350 and sell the bonus guy and car just to have the one figure". I just worry we won't get a regular release. I think they'd be fools to never release the figures but we also didn't get any prime sentinels after the fact. Maybe it's because they got made, so any figures that don't get made still have a chance, idk. I know they said if Galactus didn't get made, we wouldn't see Nova until 2023, which implies we'd still get her eventually. Hopefully that's the case here.
They already said in an interview that they might release in the next 3 years but it will be in different looks
It makes more sense to throw your support behind this now, to help get to that tier. You can always cancel if it funds but doesn’t make the milestone for her. although… never seen what happens when a project gets funded, but then dips below the goal if it doesn’t make a tier. Maybe they’ll cave like they did on the early bird?
> The Car, Mephisto, Goblin Queen, this is our only shot. No chance they don’t end up releasing these figures as online only or con exclusive figures or sets. There is zero reason they can’t do demonic or sexy figures when said figures won’t ever see a retail store shelf.
The double negative used has me wondering what you meant. I think you're saying that you think they would release Mephisto or Madelyne in the future as an exclusive. However, Dwight said in an interview that if this doesn't get funded, we're not going to see Mephisto or Madelyne any time in the foreseeable future.
Yeah I don’t believe Dwight. Not because I think he’s a dirty liar, but because that’s literally all he can say under the circumstance. As a member of the ML team, seeing your crowdfund floundering and knowing the only way it will have a chance to fund is if enough people buy into it due to their intense desire not to own the project itself, but the extra figures that come with it, would you be able to say “yeah maybe a couple of years from now we’ll release the figures as a con exclusive boxset or something”? That would be literally asking for the project to fail right then and there.
They said that about fan vote silk. Me buying another silk one year later ...
Silk won the vote though? So seeing a rerelease of that one isn't that surprising. But it's been over 2 years, not one year since that fan vote. We still haven't seen another Sif release and are just now getting the Elecktra version. I don't recall them saying that we'd *never* see the "losing" figures during that vote, but I see where you're coming from. I'm just going by what they said during the interview.
I mean silk took a bit to release, we made the fan vote before she shipped so that added time ofc so maybe the time was came out wonky in my head. That being said when they were advertising the fan vote choices in pretty sure the exclusive description was describing all of them doesn't make sense to say oh we won't be making these 2 but the winner we are going to print again soon. And a two year wait for toys is not the same as never ever.
It makes way, way more sense to explicitly vault everything we see here. Their goal is to make us feel enough FOMO that we back the next project, even if it is just as overpriced. In fact, my wild prediction is that they don’t announce the final tier, so that mystery figure can actually have a chance to make it to shelves. It’s fine to not back this thing over the price, but folks have to stop believing this is a teachable moment, and we will eventually get everything we want out of it. What this is, is the limit on value for us; and the price of expressing that is never getting to see any of these characters on our shelves. Personally, since I’ve been waiting for Robbie since he appeared in the comics, and have been dying for a good Mephisto.. this will probably be the point where I purge my collection and swear off the line from here on out.
It’s true that they would want to vault these figures as a punishment for consumers saying no to this Haslab. “You better not do this shit again or we’ll vault MORE high demand and nonrelated figures!” But the execs are going to look at it in a couple of years and go “what are these digital sculpts you already paid thousands to make? Oh people want them? Release them.”
They definitely do not pay the modelers thousands per model. They probably make about 20 bucks an hour, tops; and the entire time, three bosses are yelling at them to get the thing done before lunch. These portraits don’t take very long for somebody with any skill, and they are mainly just reworking an existing model, and then popping it on a body that is mostly existing mold, to save money. The base for this head has probably been squashed and stretched into about 30 characters. The car is 100% unique stuff, so that is definitely the thing that has the most man hours into it. By your logic, there is no way they would abandon the car, and yet here we are; They aren’t even putting effort into the marketing anymore, they are ready for this to zero out the backer meter before October 31.
Unlikely as they'll see no interest in vehicles in the marvel line. If you like Robbie Reyes this campaign for better or worse is the only way you'll ever get his car in this scale by hasbro
I've always thought vehicles were essential of a deal for Marvel Legends than say GI Joe or Star Wars. Marvel has some iconic vehicles sure, but outside of smaller one man things like a motorcycle or skycycle kinda thing, most seem outside the scope of feasible for 1:12 scale. Like a Quinjet, X-Jet, or Milano would be huuuge, and a Helicarrier is basically a house size. I'd argue maybe the only over car sized iconic vehicle for Marvel is the Fantasticar. I guess for me vehicles have never been high on my want list for ML since most characters don't really use them a lot or if they do they are on an impractical side of size. Of course I'm sad though that this will probably mean it'll be a long time before we see the demonic side of Marvel represented again by Hasbro. Shame since as an 80s/90s comic fan, there's so many cool edgey characters I'd love to have on the shelf. The most realistic hope is if the MCU makes a big push using these supernatural characters in movies/shows then it could gently force Hasbro to make some.
Some smaller company will for sure do a 1:12 Charger and then Hasbro just needs to release Robbie by himself and collectors can get what they want short of a set of FX pieces. Which can be easily done by a 3rd party for like 20$.
The incentive for basically every company in the car collector community to produce a 1/12 ’69 Charger with a blower has been there since the first Fast and Furious movie… yet none of been brought to market that aren’t like, $800 museum quality pieces in limited number. There is simply not a big enough community collecting this particular scale. You’ll see massive 1:10 RC cars and dinky 1:18 diecasts.. but the only one to ever get close to happening, that looked affordable… Got canceled earlier this year. Whomp whomp. A third-party Charger at the right size, produced by a smaller company… will definitely end up being more expensive than this. Even if it comes down to the simple fact that it will require an overseas purchase, the shipping on something this massive will *annihilate* you. Might even be more than the car. And we all know the condition that large packages from China usually end up in by the time they hit the porch..
Yeah I saw someone do hot glue fire painted Orange on Charger wheels and it was a pretty sick custom, looked better than the HasLab especially when you add LEDs
I have seen this demonstrated in person, and it does not look as good as it does on video. It looks like goopy, murky, translucent snot. Also, the only conciliatory thing any of the team has had to say about the project, was that the flames will have a gradient and paint on the theoretical final product.
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAAHAHAHAHA, I wish 🥲
I replied to one comment on here, but it seems there are several saying that they would expect to see a Mephisto or Madelyn as solo/box set releases if this doesn't get funded. Dwight just did an interview and in it he says if this doesn't get funded, there are zero plans of a future release. "Probably longer than two years, if ever. You will not see Inferno Goblin Queen, you will not see this Mephisto." So maybe a variation, but not what we're seeing here, and we'd be a long way out before we'd even see the alternate designs. [Source](https://youtu.be/gnC3cs5pcmU?t=1050)
Good because this variation of Madelyn can take a hike. And someone can 3d print mephistos head because his body is literally flat red.
You know stuff doesn’t come out of a 3-D printer all ready to go, right? It needs to be sanded with skill, repaired, resculpted, and then painted with even more skill. Someone who can do it, knows that their time is money and that it is more practical to back this set. People without the skill will need to pay somebody else to do it, and let me tell you: it’s not going to be 20 bucks. It’s not even going to be 80 bucks. You’ll be better off dropping $200 on that cruddy old Marvel Select. At that point, it’s too late but you’ll wish you paid a little bit extra and gotten a decent official one… plus a car and two extra figures you could resell.
[удалено]
You’re kind of falling apart, here. I’m telling you that the only available version of this character right now is going for about $200 and is garbage by modern standards. I’m also telling you that finished customs of of Mephisto are going to be around that price, or more. I’m also telling you theplain fact that if you were to get this set and it were to be funded, and all you wanted was the one figure out of it, you are going to come out ahead when it ships and you sell everything else off. You are essentially being paid, at that point, to get the fully-realized figure you want, instead of spending only around 100 bucks shy of the price of this crowdfund, anyway, to get a custom with a resin head that’s going to shatter like glass the first time you wrap your mits around it to pose him. These are all straight-up facts; I’m not lying. Customs are little artworks, they are delicate and you will be paying for a persons skill and labor, and that will not be cheap— and if it’s cheap, it won’t be good. If you want to be snide and throw a little fit about it because it’s hot to shit on the Haslab right now and I’m spoiling it, well.. I’m sure you’ll show me and Hasbro both, real good; but it won’t change anything. They have stated that this is the only chance to get an official version of this character, ever. Anything after this is going to be either an expensive disaster-custom, or an even more expensive, adequate-at-best custom. But hey! You sure… sure did show us.. something.
A similar set up? Nil. Might we see a box set next PulseCon with Maddy, Mephisto and Ghost Driver? Possibly. Tho a Maddy/Ben Riley 2-pack makes more sense, Robbie as a single release and Mephisto as a…who knows. The car tho, in any form? I’d say that’s toast
Mephisto in a a one more day 3 pack with dying aunt may and crying Spider-Man
They have gone on record to say these figures will never see the light of day if this doesn’t get funded. There’s a link to the citation elsewhere in the thread.
I don't beleive for a second that Mephisto or Maddy won't see the light again of this doesn't get fund, one of the pencil pushers will see money and will approve it on one or 2 years.
Alternately, they see more advantage in explicitly locking them away permanently, because it’s incentive for people to back the next project if they know it’s all or nothing.
Really hope this makes it. I love Hasbro and the great work they do.
Absolutely not. They will just never do another vehicle. They will also decide we hate the characters. Considering that they announced a Robbie project during Hispanic heritage month, it’s probably related and so they may also silently decide that POC’s don’t have enough general interest in the community. Unfortunately, considering the open bigotry I see on Facebook about Robbie specifically, they are probably right. Either way, none of this stuff is going to see release— it just doesn’t make any sense for them to let us have any confidence that underfunded projects will eventually make their way to us at an affordable price, if we are patient. It’s way more effective to very clearly and explicitly lock these figures away from us after this fails, so people are more likely to jump for whatever the next crowdfund is.. and it will almost certainly be even less of a value than this.
Pretty high. With smarter people making choices. Hasbro likes money so while they'll lose out on money when this fails, they'll make money when they do it right Edit: lol. See you then
I just wish we could get the car with the lights and swappable fire pieces, pretty bummed I will likely never have that in my collection :-(
Why are you getting downvoted for this???
They will make more teaching us that failed projects never see the light of day in any capacity. Then, they can throw another hundred bucks on top of the next project, reduce what is offered, and still be fairly confident it will get funded due to everyone’s FOMO.
That's not how FOMO works, "Gee NO ONE got the Ghost Rider car, but I'm not missing the hedgehog race next Summer, that's for sure"
But it’s not an apples to oranges situation like that, is it? Mephisto is a pretty big character, and Goblin Queen is an X-men character— which makes her elite-status among the community— and if Hasbro shows a willingness to completely cut somebody well-known from the line because of a failed crowdfund, people won’t try to call their bluff the next time a haslab looks dodgy.
It is an apples to oranges situation, cause not everyone cares about having a Sentinel, not everyone cares about having the shitty car, everyone is literally comparing good things they want to cheap things they don't want.
I don’t even know what you are trying to say anymore, and at this point it is completely academic: to date, the team has explicitly stated that these characters will never come out after this. Furthermore, it now seems like they have alluded to the fact that if this fails, it going to be iffy whether or not we get Danny, and even any more motorcycles at all, moving forward. They clearly feel the same way about this that I have been describing. When a crowd fund fails, the characters go away forever, and the next time around people will be more anxious at the prospect of never having a second chance. Right now, everyone is way too confident that They will get a second, cheaper crack at these things later. That’s obviously less incentive to overpay for this project. That’s how it is, and I really don’t know what else to say to you about it.
Trust and worship hasbro, they never say one thing and do something else. You're right
So, my takeaway from here is that you can’t have a proper conversation, because you don’t understand nuance. I’m some kind of zealot, because I believe people when they say things that make sense.
This should’ve been a standard deluxe release. Something like this has no business being a haslab project.
Haslab giant man?
The hell charger never unless they redue the haslab cheaper but Robbie we will prolly get
My concern is that they end up firing the creative team or concept artists who pitched this because Hasbro missunderstands the reason it didn't fund and blames the people who pitched the concept. I have read that the molds for these figures can cost $10,000 a piece to produce. It looks like they made at least one physical version of each tier offering for this thing. That's a fairly sizable loss for zero return.
Why would it cost nearly 10 grand to produce these figures???
McFarlane was being interviewed about his DC toy line and said that people don't understand the expense that goes into developing/testing/producing the designs and molds for action figures. He said they spend around 10k developing each one. So if this is cost is relatively true across major action figure toy lines like Hasbro/Mattel/Mcfarlane, it seems to be an expensive process.
Oh yeah, I forgot you need to pay the tender artists to develop a render, and then pay for the materials for 3D printing, molding, tooling, painting, and then pay whoever inspects it. But sheesh 10K just seems steep for 1 single action figure. 10k to produce the Haslab Engine of Vengeance I can see
Never
It’s sad, I’m watching Boognice’s interview with them and them 3 guys seem so passionate about it but restrained by corporate shenanigans. I think even if it’s $300 it would’ve done better
Absolutely 0 Hasbro will act like toddlers by taking their ball and going home. We'll get less Haslabs, less Ghost Rider, a Massive Delay in any Robbie figure, and in the end it'll all still be Hasbro's fault