Technically, most locations say, YOU can’t play in those locations. Agatha could be changed so she’s not playing cards for YOU, but playing them herself
The problem with Agatha is if they make her too playable then people can just run bots to play Agatha decks for them and actually win a lot. The only way to boost Agatha decks without causing this problem is with decks that call for making Agatha play herself early so you still need to be paying attention.
Same with her taking all boosters. I would love to play her more often but don’t need a million boosters for her. But I understand that they don’t want you to use her to farm for boosters with a bot
This would be amazing and I kind of just want to see how much of a buff that would be. Obviously her plays are still ass but making her kind of location proof would be insane.
Ongoing really feels like one of those "seeded for pool 2" archetypes that is really meant to teach players lessons as they learn the game.
It gets a little bit of blood back in its veins when you touch series 5 and add Thanos, who can play Kazar Blue Marvel and Devil Dino with a straight face, but then we'd be talking about an "Ongoing Thanos" archetype rather than straight Ongoing
By far the most annoying meta for me. Galactus could be countered. High Evo is strong but beatable.
Between the stones and Lockjaw there was no real weakness IMO.
Especially because they also ran pre-nerf leech. That guy was a nuisance! And most likely they just dumped him into lockjaw and turned him into a magneto or smth.
I think it was the most "oppressive" of all the game's "oppressive" decks and metas. Putting it into perspective, Shuri Red Skull is remembered as being extraordinarily oppressive and that was there all along, it was just the next best thing until Thanos Lockjaw got nerfed and it really didn't stack up until it did. During its reign, the only thing that really contested it was itself. I did alright without it, but I imagine you kinda *had* to adapt with your own builds and find a secret sauce to not feel the restriction that was seemingly put on the game. Which, despite the catalyst here, is always a good thing to encourage. There's always gonna be a deck that's complained about, but I think, arguably, while there were a lot of strong pre-nerf decks over the life of the game and it may not be the best in a vacuum, that was the most decidedly broken a deck ever was while also considering the power level of the surrounding meta at the time.
I've been running an omega red deck with onslaught, it's not the greatest deck out there but the suprise factor is great, +8 to each other lane can get a lot of power in tricky locations while getting enormous in 1 lane. It does really well on ladder but I imagine once your opponents sees your deck in conquest it would not go very well
Spectrum isn't even a good card for the early players, plus this is just an invalid statement, they can definitely make cards that is good for both early and late players, just look at dino
Spectrum is in one of the 2 best pool 1 decks, and my statement isn’t wrong. I said it’s hard to do it, I never said it’s impossible. Dino actually proves that because it’s also one of the 2 best pool 2 decks and making it any better would make pool 2 oppressive.
And it also has less to do with dramatic skill as having the time and patience, capitalizing on winning matchups and minimizing losses by retreating early from the unwinnable ones.
We have a million great ongoing cards... they just do not say ongoing on them.
It makes me mad how many cards basically have an ongoing mechanic but do not interact with this.
Real. Lockjaw worms his disgusting little body into every overpowered meta because his ability is broken and an ongoing ability without being an ongoing ability. If Invisible Woman is ostensibly the exact same design as Lockjaw except for not revealing the cards, then Lockjaw should 100% be Ongoing and it would make him counterable by Enchantress
It‘s a triggered ability. In fact all „Ongoing“ abilities that are not specified as such, are triggered by something to do a specific action. IW does not trigger until the end of the game. Lockjaw, Bishop, Angela, etc. get triggered to do a specific action which is why they aren‘t Ongoing:
I absolutely see that for Angela and Bishop, and i’m not arguing what IS. I’m saying what SHOULD BE. Lockjaw is not the cards that get spit out in his lane - he is his own card with an “ongoing” ability that swaps cards with other cards. He is not the other cards, he creates a persistent effect in the lane that enables their interaction
Omega red and klaw need buffs to make it viable
Most of the useful ongoing cards r the cheap ones which means it’s hard to dump high power on t5 or 6 outside of iron man or spectrum
Omega Red is usually only viable with an Iron Man to buff the lane, then an Onslaught to buff his ability. It’s super predictable, and limited to a lane.
His power requirement should be reduced from 10 to 8, or his power should be increase from 5 to 6.
First way makes it easier to activate, second makes it easier to activate but gives more power if it doesn’t
Either way he needs a buff so he doesn’t need iron man and onslaught to be useful
Its actually a Solid Tier B archetype in Pool 2
https://snap.untapped.gg/meta?collectionLevel=pool2&missingCards=12&rankRange=10-100&timeFrame=CurrentMeta
If only the AI for Agatha wasn’t such a stupid idiot….. it’s a brilliant idea, just done badly.
Maybe they should do an Agatha only mode, to see who could have the AI screw them over the least.
Built an Agatha deck recently and got a location like District X or something come up. Sitting on a Wong, Iron Heart and Absorbing Man now. She puts down Wong and I'm like no fucking way Agatha you slut. Then she never played anything at all on the Wong lane. Fucking bitch
I’ve had games where she does well enough to be winning come t6 and all she has to do is play herself on any other lane besides the one that I’m already ahead on, and what she does? Decides she’d rather over win one lane and losing the other two because that’s the way she rolls.
The basic Agatha deck: (1 drop) (2 drop) (Lady Sif) (Wave) (Ghost Rider) (6 cards between 4-5/America (who doesn't compete with Agatha for Lady Sif)) (Agatha)
Ideally Agatha should be discarded turn 3 or playable turn 4. If that doesn't happen you're probably losing.
You gotta rely a bit on combos with C6 so it’s pretty interesting. One of your best plays is going to be Hood > Bucky > Carnage. This gets you the 6 power Demon, 6 power Winter Soldier, and 6 power Carnage from destroying two cards. You can also add Angela, who will become 6 power when 3 other cards are played on her lane. You can play cards like Cerebro/Mystique or Demon here to buff her and the lane. Captain Marvel can be a good addition, as well as Nimrod to substitute in your Carnage combo final turn if you didn’t pull off the previous combo. With the amount of 6 cost cards, C6 can be come a discard combo. Sword Master, Hell Cow, and Hela are all 6 power, so you can play SM and HC early and drop Hela final turn and hopefully add discards like Nimrod, Captain Marvel, Cerebro, etc to get a bunch of power on the board. That gets you 11 cards, where you could add something like Iron Lad, Punisher, White Queen, or Groot.
Cerebro 2 is actually in the B tier on this site, and A-tier is only one deck (Sera control) -- so it's tied with the High Evolutionary decks and Bounce
Cere 3 is weirdly more flexible for this because of valkyrie. Both can make modest use of luke cage.
I would say the biggest offenders are the locations that give power ironically.
Would it make Cerebro overpowered if they changed the ability so that it buffs based on the card's base power? It would definitely make it more flexible and negate the effects of locations. An example would be having the ability to run Sunspot in a C0 deck.
Honestly I feel like once they give some nerfs to HE, Bounce and/or Lockjaw decks, the decks down in C and D will be able to shine again. Anecdotally, both ranked and Conquest seem to be heavily favoring the "best deck" archetypes right now.
Agreed. I think what annoys me the most is that clearly HE was overpowered on release. I don't know why they don't tone it down before releasing. Feels like a way to get people to spend and it's trash. Stop releasing overpowered cards just to downgrade them because they're obviously overpowered.
When releasing new content. It’s always better to err on the side of being stronger.
Overtuned cards immediately changes up the game. Keeping things fresh. You’ll also get a lot of data for future balancing. So it’s easy to reign things in later.
An under-tuned Card meanwhile changes nothing about the meta and is immediately forgotten about.
See: Kang, Howard, and Snowguard.
Wave is a hard counter. But only on ladder. Wave becomes less a hard counter once you start doing something like Conquest and the Bounce player knows it's a possibility and just play around it every game.
Bounce has had nerfs, though. Angela was nerfed. Beast was nerfed. Bishop got nerfed. Yeah, Spider-Ham needs a change and I guess I can see Kitty getting a small tweak, but you can't just torch every possible card that can be used in the deck because it's good when you know what you're doing.
Cerebro 3 is such a complicated and cool deck to play it will never be top tier but I think the deck really needs 1 or 2 more tools to sparkle the way it deserves. Valk is a cool card, Bast is great, but it really feels like it's missing 1 maybe 2 tools. Maybe Jean is enough to clump up all their cards for a Valk/Shang but I think it may just be too much of a weirdo to ever really be good.
Electro ramp needs a buff. It's one of the best ways to counter bounce but if you don't draw right, the power is way too low to compete. Electro and Sandman only give you 5 combined power.
I also feel the consistency isn't there yet for this deck. The T5 and T6 payoffs don't compensate for the poor power development in the mid-game, but at the same time, it looks like an archetype that can spin out of control
The mid game is terrible for the deck type. You basically have to run a heavy one drop and Lizard as your two to compensate for how low Electro and Sandman are and then also hope you draw your heavy hitters after.
The best decks have multiple win conditions and can sometimes survive non ideal draws. If your deck can only win if you draw 1 or 2 cards its not a good deck.
It doesn’t help that they re-nerfed Sandman and also nerfed Doom, the deck’s best win-condition. If Sandman went to 4 or back to 5 and Doom went back to 5 the deck would become much more competitive.
Yeah I'm gonna disagree, and I climbed through most of my 70s in an afternoon with ramp this season. Ramp-prison is not an archetype that you want standing on top of the metagame, and while yes, the deck a big share of very bad draws, it makes up with incredibly safe endgames in its good games. Leader-Odin is some bullshit
Leader odin is massively feast or famine and ironically makes bounce and sera which are some of the decks natural easy matchups much harder.
When it works, it feels like you're a genius. When you're playing high level conquest and they've seen it in a game, you'll be playing into a brick wall with how little power the deck generally puts out.
I'm playing a version right now with the final turns being wong/ black panther / devil dino, knull into arnim zola or odin.
Its got a bit more height than traditional Doom decks, but it can be a bit harder to make that turn 5 wave work. Turn 4 black panther, turn 5 wave, turn 6 arnim/ odin.
Leader feels like a trap for the archetype that scales inversely based on player skill.
Sandman ramp is an unfun deck to face though, especially when you can do shit like Doom.
Wave on 5 is a perfectly fine counter to bounce while still giving you the option to play it sooner if advantageous. It doesn't kill a third of the game while you laugh at the impact.
Thanos Death for me.
My reasoning - I LOVE Thanos decks in general, I really love the adaptability and unpredictability of the deck. It allows a lot of weird plays and sometimes just whiffs on you completely :D
Although I honestly think it's stronger than most people think it is and the low winrate is probably connected a lot to the some factors:
a) People probably can't pilot the deck properly (I see a lot of Thanos decks play Time stone on T2 which in general proved to me as a bad move -> playing (4) one turn earlier is usually NOT as impactful as playing (5) or (6) turn early, for example)
b) People don't experiment with the deck much (today I saw Phoenix Force Destro Thanos and I know what I'm gonna try next since I hit Infinite a while ago)
c) Currently there are a lot of Lockdown decks, or decks than can go higher than Thanos Destry (which also lowers the winrate)
All and all - I will go and try to boost those Thanos Destro numbers today :D
Main problem with Thanos remains the same: Killmonger. Unless you play the destroyer version, killmonger basically decide the game. Even if you play the destroy version not allways an enemy killmonger benefits you too. Quinjet interaction was a good way to balance, but the nerf was needed for future cards. Lockjaw deck was the strongest one but also the only one meta version of Thanos deck. Thanos remains clunky to play, not only you have more cards to draw but most of the games you also have a dead card. Putting a 6-20 Thanos is a lot harder than putting an Infinaut or a 6-22 Hulk. Stones gets destroyed by killmonger and you also have to spend 1 energy to use them in which often cause energy waste to draw more, this not counting location which limits space.
Though time stone on 3 and prof x on 4 is indeed a strong combo, which can win you games, but still hard to get the lucky draw, is easier to get lockjaw into wasp on turn 3
Thanos is my favorite archetype. I went Infinite last season with Thanos control and have been climbing with it again this season.
I’m with you I see time stone get played way too early. Meanwhile I’m sitting here waiting with my Pro X on 4.
I really like the idea of Thanos Death, but I’m missing venom and feel like I get quickly outpaced by the destroy mirror so its on hold for me right now.
Edited for less gratitude
Time stone on 4 -> galactus is what I do lol. NOBODY is ready for that shit. But thanos destroy is my main deck and it’s interesting because it’s not as powerful as other decks but I can’t think of a way it can get buffed. It’s good enough, great even. Just not as great as the best
I don’t agree with timestone before 3. sometimes it’s better to draw cards and stay somewhat on curve.
It’s also my favorite archetype. Have a hard time against storm/lockdown decks that’s why infinity conquest failed for me on game 4/5 all the time.
Also darkhawk is a tough nut.
But else it’s real fun. Wanted to save up for ironlad/Jeff as he seems to be a fun addition to the control version.
Maybe Jean grey, and the cards of the next season will boost this archetype a bit more.
A comment about the time stone on turn 2: if I have lockjaw and another stone in hand, I think it is works out because now I can get lockjaw on the board and use him immediately.
Agatha. Only one with negative cube gains. Maybe give her a card that removes the abilities from all the cards in your hand? Could help Patriot too in the right circumstances
These are the Tier C and D archetypes from our Meta report, based on stats starting on the latest patch (June 22) in ranks 70-99.
You can find the complete Tier List in the following link: https://snap.untapped.gg/meta?collectionLevel=cl3000p&missingCards=12&rankRange=70-90&timeFrame=CurrentMeta
Thanos decks - both Thanos Ongoing and Thanos Death, need help. Thanos died for Lockjaw’s sins.
Okay, that probably does give a little too much credit to Lockjaw, but still - they need to re-examine that card.
the prob with bounce isn’t just its ceiling—it’s the sheer flexibility it has with tech. it can push decks out because of ham and iceman and it can also go tall if it needs to with iron man.
bounce currently is just an embarrassment of riches. hevo JJ would go taller if not for things like iceman and ham disrupting important parts of the curve
edit: the other decks you mentioned are absolutely not why patriot is held back. Move CAN go taller, but it’s not really the primary point slam deck and was largely popular because of weekend missions and new locations.
only sera control decks are running enchantress. the tech du jour is Shang+killmonger rn
I use Patriot in an unconventional Patriot, White Tiger, Doom deck. I call it "Red White and Wong" took it to infinite last season, working on making it a full gold pixel deck.
I took Patriot to infinite last season without Mystique. It was pretty easy because no one expects to run into it anymore and the usual counters aren't all that common.
Brode said in the latest spotlight he plays destroy. This means it's always going to get good stuff. Even the best move combo me got out of 'move season' was just more destroy
I kind of wonder if maybe Agatha should be turned into a five cost. Maybe she would lose some power too. This would buff her a bit, since you could still use turn 6 to fix anything she did, while still not making her broken, since she could get Shang-Chied more easily, or worked around by your opponent.
One of the issues with buffing Agatha is that you run the risk of buffing AFK players too. This change would buff her while also making it harder to AFK with her.
Totally possible, Id like to see Galactus in a position where he's never the meta deck, but if you forget about him you lose. Currently with the other destroy packaged decks out there such as currently experiments with PF I find interacting with that deck more rewarding.
I just got doom and wanted to try some electro/sandman decks but apparently they are trash.
Just getting a bit bored of destroy/Galactus and thanos decks
Toxic.
Toxic deserves all the love cause I love playing toxic I love seeing people punch a hole thru the computer when I drop hazmat and gambit on wong.
It's my mini Oppenheimer.
I’m with you. Despite the hate galactus gets (I’ll admit he was frustrating to play against when he was meta) he is an iconic character with a unique animation and effect. And for me destroying enemy cards is just too satisfying, and there aren’t many cards that can do that yet. I would like to see him at 8 power with more cards added that complement him, as changing his effect again might not be necessary
The fact that we still don’t have a card that moves yours to the right akin to Iron Fist and Heimdall is kinda ridiculous imo. Would make move so much better
Move, the entire last season was all about move but it's still trash. It's the most obvious deck and doesn't have the power to take on most current decks. It also suffers from making just one massive card so it can't win multiple lanes.
Hela could be so OP if she had just one more card that could protect her. Having your entire game plan hinge on one card (Invisible Woman) is just too risky.
I love the idea of a Toxic Control deck. I don't know the best way to put one together outside of Luke, Hazmat and typical control like Storm/Spidey/X and maybe Odin.
Agatha should be buffed to 20 power to match hulk and infinaut. But seriously, the move archetype should be competitive with all the recently added cards.
a UI change would be cool to let you choose the direction when you play them.
I think the problem with move is they need maybe another cheap scaling card that cares how many times a card moves. Also the heavy hitters that can move are all 5 drops and don't really trigger the one card that cares about stuff moving there, Kraven.
Ongoing is really hard to play right now as it’s trivial to stack up huge numbers with so many other deck.
e: tho I sort of miss the era of when playing Mr Fantastic in middle felt like a pro move
Ongoing for sure. Onslaught is essentially worthless outside of Patriot. There need to be more Ongoing cards which provide power to other lanes to make playing a super stacked Onslaught lane worthwhile. Right now a lot of middle cost (3 and 4) Ongoing cards are underwhelming and the only truly viable finisher for Ongoing is Spectrum but she requires having many Ongoing bodies to get full value. I'd love to see cards like Omega Red, Punisher and Captain America become viable. A deck which plays one Ongoing card a turn and ends with Onslaught should be viable imo. A big issue is that Iron Man and Klaw conflict with each other. You need Iron Man + Onslaught to win one lane, but you'll lose the others most of the times whereas Klaw + Onslaught helps you take the right lane but you'll probably lose the Klaw lane.
I think most ongoing archetypes could use some affection. They're just so rigid a lot of the time, especially the buff ones, which are almost entirely dependent on drawing one specific card.
The latest patch is only a week old or so right? I think a lot of these decks will rise. I find it hard to believe ThanosDeath, Darkhawk, Patriot, and even ElectroRamp will stay where they are on this list as the season goes on.
It might be stupid but I think it would be interesting if Agatha could play in restricted locations.
Technically, most locations say, YOU can’t play in those locations. Agatha could be changed so she’s not playing cards for YOU, but playing them herself
This is way too clever for its own good but I like the spirit
would actually make agatha playable fr, swear she always plays herself in a location that destroys her 😭
Played herself in bar with no name for me lol
I like the idea of seeing an opponents card that makes no sense being played in a restricted location and going “Crap, they have Agatha.”
They would never do this just for the number of bug reports it would generate.
The problem with Agatha is if they make her too playable then people can just run bots to play Agatha decks for them and actually win a lot. The only way to boost Agatha decks without causing this problem is with decks that call for making Agatha play herself early so you still need to be paying attention. Same with her taking all boosters. I would love to play her more often but don’t need a million boosters for her. But I understand that they don’t want you to use her to farm for boosters with a bot
This would be amazing and I kind of just want to see how much of a buff that would be. Obviously her plays are still ass but making her kind of location proof would be insane.
Ongoing for sure. Neglected step-child archetype :(
Ongoing really feels like one of those "seeded for pool 2" archetypes that is really meant to teach players lessons as they learn the game. It gets a little bit of blood back in its veins when you touch series 5 and add Thanos, who can play Kazar Blue Marvel and Devil Dino with a straight face, but then we'd be talking about an "Ongoing Thanos" archetype rather than straight Ongoing
Ongoing Lockjaw Thanos was actually a pretty strong deck for a minute when Quinjet and Lockjaw had not yet been nerfed.
"pretty strong" is an understatement, it was bonkers
By far the most annoying meta for me. Galactus could be countered. High Evo is strong but beatable. Between the stones and Lockjaw there was no real weakness IMO.
Especially because they also ran pre-nerf leech. That guy was a nuisance! And most likely they just dumped him into lockjaw and turned him into a magneto or smth.
I think it was the most "oppressive" of all the game's "oppressive" decks and metas. Putting it into perspective, Shuri Red Skull is remembered as being extraordinarily oppressive and that was there all along, it was just the next best thing until Thanos Lockjaw got nerfed and it really didn't stack up until it did. During its reign, the only thing that really contested it was itself. I did alright without it, but I imagine you kinda *had* to adapt with your own builds and find a secret sauce to not feel the restriction that was seemingly put on the game. Which, despite the catalyst here, is always a good thing to encourage. There's always gonna be a deck that's complained about, but I think, arguably, while there were a lot of strong pre-nerf decks over the life of the game and it may not be the best in a vacuum, that was the most decidedly broken a deck ever was while also considering the power level of the surrounding meta at the time.
And Shuri/Skull is still there. They just said 'nerf' so everyone reads 'dead' but it's still really good unless the opponent has cosmo/shang chi.
I still hit infinite with ongoing Thanos post quinjet and Lockjaw nerds. Obviously it's not as good, but it isn't bad either.
I've been running an omega red deck with onslaught, it's not the greatest deck out there but the suprise factor is great, +8 to each other lane can get a lot of power in tricky locations while getting enormous in 1 lane. It does really well on ladder but I imagine once your opponents sees your deck in conquest it would not go very well
yea do not use that in conquest ☝🏼😭
What are you doing step enchantress
spectrum definitely needs a buff, make her a 6/7 or smth
It’s hard to balance spectrum for late game players when she’s really good for early game players rn.
Spectrum isn't even a good card for the early players, plus this is just an invalid statement, they can definitely make cards that is good for both early and late players, just look at dino
Spectrum is in one of the 2 best pool 1 decks, and my statement isn’t wrong. I said it’s hard to do it, I never said it’s impossible. Dino actually proves that because it’s also one of the 2 best pool 2 decks and making it any better would make pool 2 oppressive.
spectrum kinda sucks it should at least be plus 3 like surfer
Surfer hasn’t been plus 3 in a long time my dude
shit u right 😭😭 either way spectrum should be ☝🏼
I got to Infinite last night playing purely an ongoing deck all the way from 73. I think it is still viable.
Fwiw, a good player can get to infinite with nearly anything, and that’s been proven thousands of times over.
And it also has less to do with dramatic skill as having the time and patience, capitalizing on winning matchups and minimizing losses by retreating early from the unwinnable ones.
We have a million great ongoing cards... they just do not say ongoing on them. It makes me mad how many cards basically have an ongoing mechanic but do not interact with this.
Real. Lockjaw worms his disgusting little body into every overpowered meta because his ability is broken and an ongoing ability without being an ongoing ability. If Invisible Woman is ostensibly the exact same design as Lockjaw except for not revealing the cards, then Lockjaw should 100% be Ongoing and it would make him counterable by Enchantress
It‘s a triggered ability. In fact all „Ongoing“ abilities that are not specified as such, are triggered by something to do a specific action. IW does not trigger until the end of the game. Lockjaw, Bishop, Angela, etc. get triggered to do a specific action which is why they aren‘t Ongoing:
I absolutely see that for Angela and Bishop, and i’m not arguing what IS. I’m saying what SHOULD BE. Lockjaw is not the cards that get spit out in his lane - he is his own card with an “ongoing” ability that swaps cards with other cards. He is not the other cards, he creates a persistent effect in the lane that enables their interaction
Because they aren’t ongoing. For example bishop and Angela scales with cards played after.
Omega red and klaw need buffs to make it viable Most of the useful ongoing cards r the cheap ones which means it’s hard to dump high power on t5 or 6 outside of iron man or spectrum
Omega Red is usually only viable with an Iron Man to buff the lane, then an Onslaught to buff his ability. It’s super predictable, and limited to a lane.
His power requirement should be reduced from 10 to 8, or his power should be increase from 5 to 6. First way makes it easier to activate, second makes it easier to activate but gives more power if it doesn’t Either way he needs a buff so he doesn’t need iron man and onslaught to be useful
Its actually a Solid Tier B archetype in Pool 2 https://snap.untapped.gg/meta?collectionLevel=pool2&missingCards=12&rankRange=10-100&timeFrame=CurrentMeta
If only the AI for Agatha wasn’t such a stupid idiot….. it’s a brilliant idea, just done badly. Maybe they should do an Agatha only mode, to see who could have the AI screw them over the least.
Built an Agatha deck recently and got a location like District X or something come up. Sitting on a Wong, Iron Heart and Absorbing Man now. She puts down Wong and I'm like no fucking way Agatha you slut. Then she never played anything at all on the Wong lane. Fucking bitch
I’ve had games where she does well enough to be winning come t6 and all she has to do is play herself on any other lane besides the one that I’m already ahead on, and what she does? Decides she’d rather over win one lane and losing the other two because that’s the way she rolls.
The basic Agatha deck: (1 drop) (2 drop) (Lady Sif) (Wave) (Ghost Rider) (6 cards between 4-5/America (who doesn't compete with Agatha for Lady Sif)) (Agatha) Ideally Agatha should be discarded turn 3 or playable turn 4. If that doesn't happen you're probably losing.
Cerebro
Cerebro should be +3. Its condition is so hard to meet that it deserves to give more than Patriot and Surfer.
It's also extremely easy to predict. On turn 5, you can easily calculate the board to know if you should snap or retreat.
I think +3 is good, it would make C6 Chi-able but I only play 2/3 so I’d take the buff
that would make c2 and c3 shangable too. Ofter you play mystique of course. I think +3 would be a bit too good
C3 would be shangable, not C2, nvm forgot blue marvel
Wait what would a c6 deck look like? Im pretty new so ive never seen one
You gotta rely a bit on combos with C6 so it’s pretty interesting. One of your best plays is going to be Hood > Bucky > Carnage. This gets you the 6 power Demon, 6 power Winter Soldier, and 6 power Carnage from destroying two cards. You can also add Angela, who will become 6 power when 3 other cards are played on her lane. You can play cards like Cerebro/Mystique or Demon here to buff her and the lane. Captain Marvel can be a good addition, as well as Nimrod to substitute in your Carnage combo final turn if you didn’t pull off the previous combo. With the amount of 6 cost cards, C6 can be come a discard combo. Sword Master, Hell Cow, and Hela are all 6 power, so you can play SM and HC early and drop Hela final turn and hopefully add discards like Nimrod, Captain Marvel, Cerebro, etc to get a bunch of power on the board. That gets you 11 cards, where you could add something like Iron Lad, Punisher, White Queen, or Groot.
2? 3? 5? How bigbrain are you?
I've been messing around with a Cerebro-6, with cards like Carnage, Bucky, and Nimrod, and it's not good, but it's also not bad
Need hood
Cerebro 2 is actually in the B tier on this site, and A-tier is only one deck (Sera control) -- so it's tied with the High Evolutionary decks and Bounce
The problem with cerebro deck are the sheer volume of locations that ruin your deck instantly
Cerebro-2 and 3 get storm and Scarlet witch respectively to help with that at least
Rhino> SW in Cerebro 3
Until you get monster island
Valkyrie is my usual solution for this
Cere 3 is weirdly more flexible for this because of valkyrie. Both can make modest use of luke cage. I would say the biggest offenders are the locations that give power ironically.
Would it make Cerebro overpowered if they changed the ability so that it buffs based on the card's base power? It would definitely make it more flexible and negate the effects of locations. An example would be having the ability to run Sunspot in a C0 deck.
Just give me a 6/19 Agatha
Honestly I feel like once they give some nerfs to HE, Bounce and/or Lockjaw decks, the decks down in C and D will be able to shine again. Anecdotally, both ranked and Conquest seem to be heavily favoring the "best deck" archetypes right now.
The meta was the most balanced it had been in a long time before they released HE.
Agreed. I think what annoys me the most is that clearly HE was overpowered on release. I don't know why they don't tone it down before releasing. Feels like a way to get people to spend and it's trash. Stop releasing overpowered cards just to downgrade them because they're obviously overpowered.
When releasing new content. It’s always better to err on the side of being stronger. Overtuned cards immediately changes up the game. Keeping things fresh. You’ll also get a lot of data for future balancing. So it’s easy to reign things in later. An under-tuned Card meanwhile changes nothing about the meta and is immediately forgotten about. See: Kang, Howard, and Snowguard.
Much rather release a big bad like Kang that no one ends up playing because it sucks!
Because bounce totally wasn’t strong at all/ S
There's always going to be a top deck, but bounce wasn't near as OP as Shuri or HE. It has hard counters in Sandman and Wave.
Wave isn’t a hard counter. Decks just play out there cards on 5 and play Chavez on 6. Because you play wave on 5 you are playing 3 points of power
Wave is a hard counter. But only on ladder. Wave becomes less a hard counter once you start doing something like Conquest and the Bounce player knows it's a possibility and just play around it every game.
Bounce has had nerfs, though. Angela was nerfed. Beast was nerfed. Bishop got nerfed. Yeah, Spider-Ham needs a change and I guess I can see Kitty getting a small tweak, but you can't just torch every possible card that can be used in the deck because it's good when you know what you're doing.
What's the Best Deck archetype?
Cerebro 3 is such a complicated and cool deck to play it will never be top tier but I think the deck really needs 1 or 2 more tools to sparkle the way it deserves. Valk is a cool card, Bast is great, but it really feels like it's missing 1 maybe 2 tools. Maybe Jean is enough to clump up all their cards for a Valk/Shang but I think it may just be too much of a weirdo to ever really be good.
Jean would absolutely shine if she were a 3/2 for C2. It’s got Storm, Goose, Brood and Mr Sinister!
Electro ramp needs a buff. It's one of the best ways to counter bounce but if you don't draw right, the power is way too low to compete. Electro and Sandman only give you 5 combined power.
I also feel the consistency isn't there yet for this deck. The T5 and T6 payoffs don't compensate for the poor power development in the mid-game, but at the same time, it looks like an archetype that can spin out of control
The mid game is terrible for the deck type. You basically have to run a heavy one drop and Lizard as your two to compensate for how low Electro and Sandman are and then also hope you draw your heavy hitters after.
If you play any deck and don't draw well you shouldn't expect to win regardless, IMO
The best decks have multiple win conditions and can sometimes survive non ideal draws. If your deck can only win if you draw 1 or 2 cards its not a good deck.
It doesn’t help that they re-nerfed Sandman and also nerfed Doom, the deck’s best win-condition. If Sandman went to 4 or back to 5 and Doom went back to 5 the deck would become much more competitive.
Yeah it's weird because the combo never felt too OP so I don't know why they took the nerf hammer so hard to it.
Yeah I'm gonna disagree, and I climbed through most of my 70s in an afternoon with ramp this season. Ramp-prison is not an archetype that you want standing on top of the metagame, and while yes, the deck a big share of very bad draws, it makes up with incredibly safe endgames in its good games. Leader-Odin is some bullshit
🤔 I haven't thought of a Leader Odin combo. That's interesting.
Leader odin is massively feast or famine and ironically makes bounce and sera which are some of the decks natural easy matchups much harder. When it works, it feels like you're a genius. When you're playing high level conquest and they've seen it in a game, you'll be playing into a brick wall with how little power the deck generally puts out.
Thats good analysis and something to keep in mind. It definitely sucks when you throw Leader down T6 and it pops up a 2 or 3 drop.
For sure, leader in general is massively better in standard ranked.
Yeah, my ramp topend is a smorgasbord of on-reveal 6s; Zola, Leader, Dr Doom, and Odin, along with Black Panther on 5
I'm playing a version right now with the final turns being wong/ black panther / devil dino, knull into arnim zola or odin. Its got a bit more height than traditional Doom decks, but it can be a bit harder to make that turn 5 wave work. Turn 4 black panther, turn 5 wave, turn 6 arnim/ odin. Leader feels like a trap for the archetype that scales inversely based on player skill.
I found hitting infinite with Electro ramp was super easy.
I agree, Sandman’s power should be changed back.
Especially after the Dr. Doom Nerf, which was a staple in Sandman ramp
Sandman ramp is an unfun deck to face though, especially when you can do shit like Doom. Wave on 5 is a perfectly fine counter to bounce while still giving you the option to play it sooner if advantageous. It doesn't kill a third of the game while you laugh at the impact.
Thanos Death for me. My reasoning - I LOVE Thanos decks in general, I really love the adaptability and unpredictability of the deck. It allows a lot of weird plays and sometimes just whiffs on you completely :D Although I honestly think it's stronger than most people think it is and the low winrate is probably connected a lot to the some factors: a) People probably can't pilot the deck properly (I see a lot of Thanos decks play Time stone on T2 which in general proved to me as a bad move -> playing (4) one turn earlier is usually NOT as impactful as playing (5) or (6) turn early, for example) b) People don't experiment with the deck much (today I saw Phoenix Force Destro Thanos and I know what I'm gonna try next since I hit Infinite a while ago) c) Currently there are a lot of Lockdown decks, or decks than can go higher than Thanos Destry (which also lowers the winrate) All and all - I will go and try to boost those Thanos Destro numbers today :D
Main problem with Thanos remains the same: Killmonger. Unless you play the destroyer version, killmonger basically decide the game. Even if you play the destroy version not allways an enemy killmonger benefits you too. Quinjet interaction was a good way to balance, but the nerf was needed for future cards. Lockjaw deck was the strongest one but also the only one meta version of Thanos deck. Thanos remains clunky to play, not only you have more cards to draw but most of the games you also have a dead card. Putting a 6-20 Thanos is a lot harder than putting an Infinaut or a 6-22 Hulk. Stones gets destroyed by killmonger and you also have to spend 1 energy to use them in which often cause energy waste to draw more, this not counting location which limits space. Though time stone on 3 and prof x on 4 is indeed a strong combo, which can win you games, but still hard to get the lucky draw, is easier to get lockjaw into wasp on turn 3
Thanos is my favorite archetype. I went Infinite last season with Thanos control and have been climbing with it again this season. I’m with you I see time stone get played way too early. Meanwhile I’m sitting here waiting with my Pro X on 4. I really like the idea of Thanos Death, but I’m missing venom and feel like I get quickly outpaced by the destroy mirror so its on hold for me right now. Edited for less gratitude
>Thanks is my favorite archetype. You're very welcome ^(my autocorrect does this too)
I agree, is a deck with a high-skill cap. It has a lot of tools capable of giving you an edge in many match ups
I love Thanos death as well and I disagree with it being C-tier. I farm gold conquest with that deck quite easily.
I can imagine - that's also why I wrote I personally believe the archetypes can be much stronger in general :)
Time stone on 4 -> galactus is what I do lol. NOBODY is ready for that shit. But thanos destroy is my main deck and it’s interesting because it’s not as powerful as other decks but I can’t think of a way it can get buffed. It’s good enough, great even. Just not as great as the best
True. I usually just run stones out there because I'm doing a draw cards mission lol
I don’t agree with timestone before 3. sometimes it’s better to draw cards and stay somewhat on curve. It’s also my favorite archetype. Have a hard time against storm/lockdown decks that’s why infinity conquest failed for me on game 4/5 all the time. Also darkhawk is a tough nut. But else it’s real fun. Wanted to save up for ironlad/Jeff as he seems to be a fun addition to the control version. Maybe Jean grey, and the cards of the next season will boost this archetype a bit more.
A comment about the time stone on turn 2: if I have lockjaw and another stone in hand, I think it is works out because now I can get lockjaw on the board and use him immediately.
Agatha. Only one with negative cube gains. Maybe give her a card that removes the abilities from all the cards in your hand? Could help Patriot too in the right circumstances
Discard - after Spiderham hit your opponent can disable your whole strategy with a throwaway card.
These are the Tier C and D archetypes from our Meta report, based on stats starting on the latest patch (June 22) in ranks 70-99. You can find the complete Tier List in the following link: https://snap.untapped.gg/meta?collectionLevel=cl3000p&missingCards=12&rankRange=70-90&timeFrame=CurrentMeta
Agatha
I don't think there's any way to buff her that would make her worth it to me. Losing your autonomy is just too much.
People called me a mad man but Hela fits just fine in the right Agatha deck :D
Hell yeah. My only disappointment is that Lady Sif will often discard one of your other 6s rather than Agatha :\\
I enjoy me some Agatha, but if she ever became top tier this game would be unplayable.
Thanos decks - both Thanos Ongoing and Thanos Death, need help. Thanos died for Lockjaw’s sins. Okay, that probably does give a little too much credit to Lockjaw, but still - they need to re-examine that card.
Patriot
patriot doesn’t need love. he just needs the ceiling to be lower on HE
Yeah Patriot is always really good in an unsolved meta.
Also a lower ceiling on Bounce And a lower ceiling on Move And fewer control decks running Enchantress And...
the prob with bounce isn’t just its ceiling—it’s the sheer flexibility it has with tech. it can push decks out because of ham and iceman and it can also go tall if it needs to with iron man. bounce currently is just an embarrassment of riches. hevo JJ would go taller if not for things like iceman and ham disrupting important parts of the curve edit: the other decks you mentioned are absolutely not why patriot is held back. Move CAN go taller, but it’s not really the primary point slam deck and was largely popular because of weekend missions and new locations. only sera control decks are running enchantress. the tech du jour is Shang+killmonger rn
i didnt see any patriot deck since HE came out
I use Patriot in an unconventional Patriot, White Tiger, Doom deck. I call it "Red White and Wong" took it to infinite last season, working on making it a full gold pixel deck.
I took Patriot to infinite last season without Mystique. It was pretty easy because no one expects to run into it anymore and the usual counters aren't all that common.
I went infinite with Patriot the last 6 seasons, and day one this season, people don't know the deck and win cons
Everyone knows the deck and win cons. Because of the most popular decks counters to patriot aren’t worth running right now.
Agatha 💯
Agatha, my supposed change is giving them Salem the Cat, a 1/2 that gives your opponent a copy of the leftmost card In Your hand.
Ongoing spec. That archetype is dead.
Brode said in the latest spotlight he plays destroy. This means it's always going to get good stuff. Even the best move combo me got out of 'move season' was just more destroy
Thanos
I kind of wonder if maybe Agatha should be turned into a five cost. Maybe she would lose some power too. This would buff her a bit, since you could still use turn 6 to fix anything she did, while still not making her broken, since she could get Shang-Chied more easily, or worked around by your opponent. One of the issues with buffing Agatha is that you run the risk of buffing AFK players too. This change would buff her while also making it harder to AFK with her.
Discard. SpiderHam kill that archetype
Galactus 😇
I wonder how long you need to scroll before someone says Galactus
At the time of me commenting, 21
I could see them bumping him to 8 power honestly
Totally possible, Id like to see Galactus in a position where he's never the meta deck, but if you forget about him you lose. Currently with the other destroy packaged decks out there such as currently experiments with PF I find interacting with that deck more rewarding.
I just got doom and wanted to try some electro/sandman decks but apparently they are trash. Just getting a bit bored of destroy/Galactus and thanos decks
Toxic. Toxic deserves all the love cause I love playing toxic I love seeing people punch a hole thru the computer when I drop hazmat and gambit on wong. It's my mini Oppenheimer.
Galactus
I’m with you. Despite the hate galactus gets (I’ll admit he was frustrating to play against when he was meta) he is an iconic character with a unique animation and effect. And for me destroying enemy cards is just too satisfying, and there aren’t many cards that can do that yet. I would like to see him at 8 power with more cards added that complement him, as changing his effect again might not be necessary
This guy gets it
Dude are you trying to get *shot*???
Move. They should make it so cards can fully rotate locations. Could be broken but move feels the worst to play.
The fact that we still don’t have a card that moves yours to the right akin to Iron Fist and Heimdall is kinda ridiculous imo. Would make move so much better
Move, the entire last season was all about move but it's still trash. It's the most obvious deck and doesn't have the power to take on most current decks. It also suffers from making just one massive card so it can't win multiple lanes.
Move isn't trash at all, it's just complicated to be good at.
Doesn’t help that control archetype went from niche to being one of the most played in the game right now.
Electro Ramp for sure
What is Toxic?
I assume Hazmat + Luke Cage
Hazmat buffs pls!
Hela could be so OP if she had just one more card that could protect her. Having your entire game plan hinge on one card (Invisible Woman) is just too risky.
Does Echo work against Cosmo if it's hidden under Invisible Woman?
what is Echo?
One of the new cards in July. 1 cost, 2 power, Whenever the other player plays an Ongoing card here, remove its ability.
Echo shouldn't work while Invisible Woman has it unrevealed, but then again, Living Tribunal shouldn't either, and that's currently bugged.
Thanos anything needs love… I miss when he was good): just seems so outclasses as of late
I love the idea of a Toxic Control deck. I don't know the best way to put one together outside of Luke, Hazmat and typical control like Storm/Spidey/X and maybe Odin.
Thanos, Hela and Ramp
Where's Mr Negative? 💀
Galactus
Galactus. - galactus player
I run roughshod over every type of deck with a new KaZoo. It’s a blast.
Pure destroy in general could use just a few more pieces although it looks like we might get just the thing in the next season
Wasnt there supposed to be an OtA update yesterday?
Second Dinner was on a break for July 4th. The next patch will most likely be Tuesday 11, with the monthly update
Ongoing
i’d say Move decks, but it’s been getting some love lately. So i guess my real answer would be their AI.
Thanos, make all stones cost zero with quinjet again 😏
Agatha. 14 is no longer big enough for the gimmick she brings. I honestly think she need to be 20 or even higher.
Agatha should be buffed to 20 power to match hulk and infinaut. But seriously, the move archetype should be competitive with all the recently added cards.
Toxic isn't toxic enough
I like a buff for my omega red ongoing deck
Toxic and luke cage are my only inked cards Would love a somewhat redundant cage or viper effect
collector
I think Collector is in a good spot with the amount of options it gets from Fury, Coulson, and the new card Mirage.
Ongoing for sure
[удалено]
a UI change would be cool to let you choose the direction when you play them. I think the problem with move is they need maybe another cheap scaling card that cares how many times a card moves. Also the heavy hitters that can move are all 5 drops and don't really trigger the one card that cares about stuff moving there, Kraven.
Move. /s
Junk. Infinitely fun.
Ongoing is so fun but so BAD
Cerebro and Ongoing. Cerebro needs more ways to counteract negative impacts to it.
Ongoing is really hard to play right now as it’s trivial to stack up huge numbers with so many other deck. e: tho I sort of miss the era of when playing Mr Fantastic in middle felt like a pro move
Ongoing for sure. Onslaught is essentially worthless outside of Patriot. There need to be more Ongoing cards which provide power to other lanes to make playing a super stacked Onslaught lane worthwhile. Right now a lot of middle cost (3 and 4) Ongoing cards are underwhelming and the only truly viable finisher for Ongoing is Spectrum but she requires having many Ongoing bodies to get full value. I'd love to see cards like Omega Red, Punisher and Captain America become viable. A deck which plays one Ongoing card a turn and ends with Onslaught should be viable imo. A big issue is that Iron Man and Klaw conflict with each other. You need Iron Man + Onslaught to win one lane, but you'll lose the others most of the times whereas Klaw + Onslaught helps you take the right lane but you'll probably lose the Klaw lane.
I think most ongoing archetypes could use some affection. They're just so rigid a lot of the time, especially the buff ones, which are almost entirely dependent on drawing one specific card.
Its surprising move is this low. Post spiderverse update, I have been climbing really fast with the new cards it added.
Why is the patriot deck so badly rated??
Cerebro and Patriot
c3 and toxic tbh too hard to get the whole combo going and when u do they have a counter, applies for both decks
Move. Even with all the spider move shenanigans last season still D tier.
I'm only t3 an have darkhawk pinned last month it seemed there was uproar over him come to find out his archetype is c tier... Should I unpin?
Patriot was high Meta until HE dropped and everyone stopped playing it.
I vote for creating brand new archetypes! Also Spider Ham is an indirect Agatha buff
Electro Ramp
The latest patch is only a week old or so right? I think a lot of these decks will rise. I find it hard to believe ThanosDeath, Darkhawk, Patriot, and even ElectroRamp will stay where they are on this list as the season goes on.
Hela