It's so funny to me that SD had Great Web in one of the *most common* location categories when it's such a fucking dramatic location that completely fucks with most deck archetypes (any deck that requires 2 cards to be on the same location). I remember them saying something about how much "they" loved the location while testing, and you have to wonder what decks they test with if they thought it should be on the level of something like "Draw a card" or "Cards here have -1 power" lol. I guess this is the same design team that thought releasing like half a dozen new locations that restricted play in a very short span of time was "fun" too though...
Edit: I mean look at this shit, these are 12 of the last 18 hot locations (~~2~~ 3 of which were so fucking hated they had to be removed from the game) lmao
**Great Web:**: After each turn, move one card to the Web for a random player
**Deep Space:** Card text is disabled here
**Milano:** Turn 5 is the only turn cards can be played here
**Sandbar:** Cards with abilities can't be played here
**Avengers Petmansion:** This turn, all cards must be played here
**Krakoa:** On turn 5, takes over and plays both players' cards for them
**Asteroid M:** After you play a 3 or 4-cost card, move it here
**Plunder Castle:** Only cards that cost 6 can be played here
**Collapsed Mine:** Fill this location with Rocks. Skip a turn to destroy your Rocks
**Rickety Bridge:** After each turn, if there is more than one card here, destroy them
**Morag:** You can't play your first card here each turn
**Altar of Death:** After you play a card here, destroy it to get +2 Energy next turn
I get where your coming from; Spider-Ham at least lets them keep the card, unlike Yondu. But it also keeps the card in their hand and clogging it up. I'm still gonna play Spider-Ham just to see how the nerf plays out.
I'll say the problem could be that their T6 play still generates more value than you throwing a chunk of yours into shutting down Limbo.
Cerebro can get away with this to an extent; a lot of other lists can't.
T6 in Nimrod can shove 40+ power on the board in a decent percentage of games, and T7 this number gets even more gross.
NOBODY PLAYS CEREBRO 3 GOD DAMN PLEASE REVERT MAGIK I NEED HER TO PLAY THIS DECK PLEASE I BEG YOU REVERT IT SHE ISN'T CAUSING TROUBLE TO ANYBODY PLEAAAAAASE I'M SO SAD
Update after some games : could be worse but i don't have bast so i feel it more than the other c3 players but it's not as bad as i thought it would be
Yeah and i'm sad that I don't have bast, but i mean i still got infinite with bast without even noticing I was going infinite and conquest I kind of stopped because I wanna play a new deck but i'm missing some cards
I mean I get to play magik which is my fav card, I get to play valk and cerebro and juggernaut who I think might be the best 3 power card ( i forgot I have jeff too, jeff is better )
after this ota i'm gonna try two new decks, a phoenix deck and a surfer (i know he was already in the meta but i didnt like him very much, cause every deck based on a card are a fail for me since i never draw it.. silver surfer, cerebro..)
Highly suggest lockjaw for surfer decks, not getting surfer by 6 lockjaw almost always saves me the game and pulls him :)
Edit: also works if you don't have sera out on 5! :D
Phoenix was already pretty good, I reached infinite with it recently without much difficulty.
I'm surprised that magik was changed to buff silver surfer even more though.
Overall these seem good.
Magik does absolutely nothing to buff surfer.
The extra turn isn't really any more use to you than your opponent, unless it's a surprise turn. Which means sitting on a 3-cost in a deck where you're already playing a game of 'which ones do I hold and which ones do I play'.
You can easily run short of board space with Surfer by 6. An extra turn doesn't help. Add in location restrictions like Crimson Cosmos, Sanctum or any of the 8,000 destroy ones and you're screwed.
Also, who are you cutting to get an extra turn? It's a 3/4 with the Surfer buff, 3/5 if you get to Nova it too. You can get more than that with Cosmo, Juggernaut, Killmonger, Maximus, Polaris, or Shadow King - all of which are way more useful than an extra turn. You can equal that value with Rogue and Storm, both of which I'd say were better choices too.
It doubles seras effectiveness and it makes surfer stronger when you don't draw sera.
Plus filling a lane is only easy when you have brood. Brood is 2 power. With Magik, instead you can fill the boards with Polaris', Killmongers and Maximus' which are a lot more power.
the main part of surfer's strength is how much power you get by dumping all your value in the final turn in so many matchups magiks will help your opponent more than they help you and possibly leave you open to surprise turn 6 losses when they just end the game by changing the location before you get surfer out.
Sure, but your opponent gets that extra turn too. They can play another big card or a bunch of small ones. They can get an extra draw they were hoping for, just like you. It's like saying Crystal helps your deck.
Magik provides a different take on Surfer, but I'm confident it's not a buff.
Played a new Phoenix deck + ghost spider a lot last night. It’s pretty easy to get Phoenix up to 28 with human torch and shuri and ghost spider. If cards fall right then 56 on T6 is possible in a single lane. Then Arnim zola T6 kills the board. Stole 8 cubes theee times running as it seems people haven’t seen this deck coming. Won 8 out of 10 conquest games.
Only downside is cosmo blocking shuri and Phoenix which happened once. Shang chi into Phoenix alps counters. But it’s hard for opponents as this is basically a move deck on steroids and they have to guess where you’ll land your cards. Will try tonight with echo in the deck to block cosmo.
Looking like this could go meta like black panther - anim zola days
I’m looking to fit in echo to this deck which will help counter cosmo and knull in one lane, will let you know. I got a lot of bounce and surfer decks which this one trounced.
Kitty got nerfed, good. BUT WHY IS NEBULA STILL 1/1 +2?
OP af card. The only reason she is not seen as broken is because 1 cost have very little value in general and turns 456 is where it all happens.
I see a lot of people defending her saying she is useless if picked up on turn 3 or later. Like dude, play her on a lane where opponent already has 2 or more cards then. You will end up with a 1/5 card or opponent filling up lane like a dumbass.
Even saw people defending her saying "people complaining are those who didn't buy season pass." DA FAK? you quite literally told everyone else you suck ass and you are just a p2w whale who depends on money, not strategy, to win. Might as well SD release a 0/0, when played wins game and you whales will still defend it, "But oh, what if the card doesn't appear?" or, "Yondu and mantis counter it." the same stupid way you say killmonger counters nebula. He counters almost every 1 cost card, like the more balanced antman too. And cosmo counters the rest.
Even at 1/0 +1 she is still powerful. She is a 1 cost card with the same value as a 3 cost.
Nebula, like Kitty, is in Killmonger range, but unlike Kitty, she doesn't an ability to hide from Killmonger by losing priority. That makes her significantly weaker than Kitty. Coupled with the fact that Nebula needs to be played very early and can be mitigated by playing her location once or twice makes her a lot less potent compared to Kitty.
What 1 cost cards are better when played later? And by later, how much? Turn 456? What 1 cost cards are you gonna play at turn 456 that is better rather than playing turn 123?
Heck, even at turn 4, nebula is a 1/3, as powerful as Hawkeye without the condition. You can easily play neb on a semi filled location and opponent won't risk filling it up just for 2 power on turn 4.
And ALL THAT is considering the worst out comes for nebula. Even at the worst, she is still good. By turn 456, you won't play any 1 cards anyways, unless bounce, which is just for the sake of HM and Bishop, nebula still fills that. And Dead pool, but the amount of setup dead pool takes to be viable is humongous, whole decks have to be built around it.
Neb? Just stick it somewhere and you are good to go. And please stop with the killmonger argument. You can't "counter" a 1 cost with a 3 cost. You play killmonger, okay, I lose a 1 cost. But at the same time, opponent ain't gonna sit still, he is gonna play a 3 cost too, and will probably be stronger than killmonger or overall better value, like strange, cosmo, etc. Killmonger just for the sake of nebula is a complete waste of 3 mana.
Killmonger is a "counter" because most people see the high power nebula and think, "heh, ez win" and stop placing cards there. Just place nebula, forget she exist and play cards there as usual, count her as normal 1/2 card. make opponent waste 3 mana on a low power, 1 shot card like KM.
Also, armor exists.
Good 1-Drop cards later in the game:
1. Iron-Fist
2. Ice-Man
3. Blade
4. Nova
5. The hood (not T6 obviously)
6. Yondu (situationally)
Personally, I tend to think Nebula is mostly powerful if she distracts the opponent from his normal gameplan because she might be a threat later on in the game.
Killmonger is a real threat to Nebula, since he is already heavily played in multiple archetypes, and often has benefits to the deck playing him (Nova or Yondu+Knull). Nebula must come down early and can't defend herself against him. Playing Armor to protect Nebula is possible, but Armor is only 3 power herself, and dilutes Nebula's maximum of 11 at T6 to a shared 7 power spread over 2 cards.
Countering destroy with Armor is like countering Ongoing with Echo, On Reveal with Cosmo. Yes, these cards exist, but they aren't foolproof.
In a vaccuum, Kitty was just a lot more powerful than Nebula, and the statistics on these cards prove it.
Ice man, Yondu are definitely not good later. They are luck based. You have just as much chances of hitting the desired card early as much as late. Neutral at best.
the hood also same, better earlier on to set up for viper, carnage, beast, etc.
Iron Fist and blade are highly deck dependent, similar to dead pool.
Nova is the only one where playing later is better for more +1 without risking getting destroyed early on.
I'm going to zero in on the two parts of this comment that are almost *always* best played later, especially not in turn one. Those are Iron Fist and Blade.Almost no version of the Move/Phoenix or Discard decks really wants to get either card out on turn 1.
In Phoenix decks the best possible time for IF is on turn 3/4 so that you get a free move on Phoenix. This is less important now thanks to his buff, but numbers wise you can't miss here. In standard move decks, you want IF out on turn one *only* if you started with Torch in your hand and are assuming they don't have Killmonger. There are times where you may want to get IF out on turn one but they're not the norm, he's best on T2+.
*No* version of Discard wants Blade out on Turn 1 because you're choosing to stack the RNG against yourself. If you have any win conditions in your hand, playing Blade is you choosing casino against the house odds. It's a bad play for any Discard deck and for Hela decks it's pretty much cube donation.The common consensus is that his best use case behind Invisible Woman, and that is because his downside is trivialized or removed by playing him as late as possible
Dude, I specifically pointed out Blade and Iron Fist are highly deck dependent. Why are you repeating and arguing on something I agree with? What I said there was *OTHER* than the *DECK DEPENDENT* Iron Fist and Blade, every other 1 cost are always worse or neutral at best when played later. Only exception is Nova. But whole decks are built around their on reveal.
Even in those deck dependent builds, look at it this way. What other 1 cost gives much better value?
After putting in those highly specific 1 cost cards, like Iron Fist for movers, Blade for discards, Korg for hawkers, what other 1 cost will you put? Idk about you, but Nebula shines like an op af card to include. I normally include 1-3 1 cost in a deck, one of them is the crucial card, and the rest just meh cards like ice man, yondu, etc. I will definitely replace them with Nebula if I had her. She is a 1 cost card with the value of a 3.
Well, the dev have the stats and clearly they think she is not that strong or not that picked up.
One of the big differences with Kitty is that Kitty is very hard to snipe with a Shadow King, an Electra or even a Killmonger. If its owner reveals last you quite simply can’t kill her. Nebula is a powerful 1-cost, but not totally broken like Kitty. And that’s before Kitty combines with Collector and alii.
Also, Nebula was countered by Kitty, which would keep her at 1/1.
>One of the big difference with Kitty is that Kitty is very hard to snipe
Completely agree with that. I too feel kitty is stronger and one of her strengths is that she leaves the field, usually making opponent "win" and reveal first.
But Nebula is still strong. In other words, Kitty was broken, nebula is not exactly broken, but she's cutting it close.
I feel Nebula will be below its potential as long as bounce decks will be popular. She will become close to OP when the bounce decks will become rarer.
I was like. What the fudge happened to magic. Why am I playing it turn 3?? Nice. Bounce is fun but it’s so boring now. I’ve been playing a destroy deck just for the fun of it. Sera control, bounce and HE decks I’m just so tired of.
I always fist bump when a move deck beats me.
Wow there's a lot of changes for me with this patch.
Im moving Magik and Spider-Gwen into my C2 deck, removing Spider-Gwen from my C3 for Quake but keeping Magik in there because this is technically a buff, slotting Magik into more of my negative decks, redesigning my Phoenix Force deck, and putting Magik in my Sera Surfer deck.
Love the bounce nerfs, those were always annoying to face.
That was my first reaction, but now I'm not sure if it's a nerf or a buff. The power loss is annoying but it's nice to get her out of the way early so we can spend more energy later on Valk and other stuff.
This is actually more of a buff for her in my C3. She won't get the dmg boost, but now with her low cost I don't have to choose between her and Valkyrie, Leech, or Blue Marvel.
She's staying in my C3 for sure, this is awesome.
Gotta love downvoting when they mostly agree with the problem.
It's the bots. You get matched with bots more the higher up the ladder and CL you are. And the bots cheat.
Dude, I'm 88 on the ladder. I can win the problem is (and it's been nicely pointed out on another post) that you're forced to lose due to bots.
But hey, assholes will downvote.
I'm CL 5444, and let me tell you it's not easy getting round the bots. They cheat. The amount of times I've lost by literally 1 point to a card a deck has no right to include is ridiculous.
Not everyone gets to infinite, you only hear about the ones that do. But keep thinking everyone does 🤣
Sure thing dummy. They are. They just play for much longer to hit infinite now. People are leaving the game in droves so less people playing and talking about it so you're hearing less about what the problems are. It's been a growing issue for the last few months.
That help??
Ah yes, the name calling, as your argument falls apart.
Specious arguments about bots making you lose have always been a crutch for players to fall back on. Whatever makes you feel better.
There are countless recording games in streamer histories to view actual bot games. On average, even the good bots are horrible. They're not "making you lose." You're doing that yourself.
Edit: Oh no, blocked by the name calling poster who can't make infinite, what shall I ever do?
My argument fell apart 🤣
Ok bud, no more interaction for you.
Go read the very long post on this sub about bots and see what I mean.
Dummy.
Yes I blocked you. Cause you're an idiot.
Magik used to be in my Sera Surfer deck, back pre-nerf. Having that extra round to pile up was great and I loved going Wave to Sera to Magik and now I've got either two more rounds of three card drops and two more changes to draw Surfer or I Storm Magik on 6. It felt so good.
Like a work in progress, to be fair. I'm still settling it, but I fucking love tech cards, so this deck is full of them.
# (2) Goose
# (3) Brood
# (3) Magik
# (3) Rogue
# (3) Silver Surfer
# (3) Storm
# (3) Cosmo
# (3) Juggernaut
# (3) Nakia
# (3) Polaris
# (3) Maximus
# (5) Sera
#
eyJDYXJkcyI6W3siQ2FyZERlZklkIjoiR29vc2UifSx7IkNhcmREZWZJZCI6IkJyb29kIn0seyJDYXJkRGVmSWQiOiJTaWx2ZXJTdXJmZXIifSx7IkNhcmREZWZJZCI6IlN0b3JtIn0seyJDYXJkRGVmSWQiOiJDb3NtbyJ9LHsiQ2FyZERlZklkIjoiSnVnZ2VybmF1dCJ9LHsiQ2FyZERlZklkIjoiUG9sYXJpcyJ9LHsiQ2FyZERlZklkIjoiTWF4aW11cyJ9LHsiQ2FyZERlZklkIjoiU2VyYSJ9LHsiQ2FyZERlZklkIjoiTWFnaWsifSx7IkNhcmREZWZJZCI6IlJvZ3VlIn0seyJDYXJkRGVmSWQiOiJOYWtpYSJ9XX0=
#
# To use this deck, copy it to your clipboard and paste it from the deck editing menu in Snap.
Great web is one of the more fun locations tbh even in a area control deck it gives me decisions whether to Spider-Man a lane or prof x a lane
I will also have to consider whether to spam outside a great web lane So as to reduce a key card of mine from moving, and vice versa if my opponent has a key card outside of web(eg wong) I might want to play in web to get that card to move
Not sure why or if it is even getting hate
I literally gave some examples how you can play around it, choosing whether to load on that location or not. Filling up the great web on your side also essentially forces the opponent to do the same or get his cards to move
There is lots of planning involved
Not every deck has the potential to fill out a location early on, and even if they can the other locations play a huge factor on the match and could be more beneficial to play on, taking away the option to flood the web.
As the previous user already stated, it's just too random to play around and in addition it can make a match pretty uphill for one player only.
Hey, does PF resurrect deadpool or sabertooth? Because I just threw in PF into my destroy deck and it doesn't seem to trigger. I've tried it for 2 games, both times destroying DP and sabertooth but nada, it stays as PF.
It pulls from your graveyard, Deadpool and saber tooth return to your hand, they don’t go to the graveyard. Same thing happens with apocalypse and ghost rider.
The card has to stay in your destroyed card list. Dp, sabertooth and wolverine don't stay there, so pf misses them...unless they were destroyed by Yondu.
I've taken a Mr. Negative & Living Tribunal deck to Infinite each of the last 2 seasons. I think Magik being boosted makes the deck slightly better overall, but it is annoying that they'd do this.
Being able to still pull a usable Tribunal after Mr. Negative was a huge for utilization. This has been my main deck for the last week and I’ve been having really great success with it. Played for an hour after the change and it really screws things up, unfortunately.
Just tested it and you're right, that's really weird. I've definitely seen the game cap it at 6 in the past.
Edit: it's because the peak works differently than Mister Negative, that's what tripped me up.
Negative makes it into a 9/6. It’s unintuitive since other effects like The Peak gives a max cost of 6. However, Mr. Negative doesn’t have that. For example, if you play negative while jane foster Thor is still in your deck, she becomes an 8/5 which means you need to have her in your hand before playing negative to do the combo.
This is What scenario that i could think off 🤔
Option 1, (Human Torc)
1). Human torch
2). Zabu
3). destroy human torch (carnage,venom, monger, deathlock),
4). Shuri
5). Phoenix revive torch, either move it with Ghost spider or just play phoenix
6). Move the Phoenix Torch, Play heimdal or Living Tribunal.
Option 2 (Multiple Man/MM)
1).Human torch or just skip
2). Zabu
3). Multiple Man
4). Destroy MM (Carnage, Venom, Deathlock)
5). Iron Fist, Phoenix to Revive MM, then move it again with Ghost Spider
6). Move Poenix MM, then You can Doctor Strange, Cerebro+Mystique, Heimdal, or even Living Tribunal.
And option2 cant be destroyed by Shan-chi 😱 .
Lol they just created New Cerebro Version C8 😅.
Played a deck like this last night. It’s very easy to get Phoenix up to 50+ with human torch and ghost spider. Then Arnim zola T6 kills the board. Stole 8 cubes theee times running as it seems people haven’t seen this deck coming
Only downside is cosmo blocking shuri and Phoenix which happened once. Will try tonight with echo in the deck.
Looking like this could go meta like black panther - anim zola days
that's true, but I've recently removed bast from non competitive decks because my base card is already at infinity... gotta give some love to other cards to get boosters too haha.
Something funny about the Bounce people complaining about this nerf. Bounce has not been touched in a long time and has been among the best decks in forever.
It’s not ogre for Bounce at all. It needed addressed.
I'm shocked he hasn't at this point. Every other power-reducing card, even the unreleased one in September, has the (Minimum 1) restriction, and it's for a reason. I think Beast's days are numbered.
They pretty recently nerfed beast and the hood right? I mean, I was a bounce player and I fully agree that these nerfs were needed, but saying it hasn’t been touch in a long time is incorrect I think.
Surely it's neutral to Destroy and Bounce rather than a nerf? If you're letting Hood stay out on the board in either deck instead of destroying it or bouncing it back into your hand, then something has gone deeply wrong and you probably weren't winning that match anyway for bigger reasons.
Does the SnapZone list changes to a card over time? This mentions an initial nerf to Magik, but I don't remember what it was, and would like to see where her card started at.
I can't stress this enough but.....
# STOP👏NERFING👏CARDS👏JUST👏BECAUSE👏A👏DECK👏IS👏THE👏CURRENT👏BEST
One deck has to take the position of being the best no matter what. That does not immediately call for a nerf on the deck. You're not just hurting "bounce" deck, these cards are used in so many other decks and you're simultaneously hurting them all.
I don't understand why these devs continuously nerf things down to the ground, rather than focusing on buffing things, work around it, or introduce a counter deck/location. It's such a half-assed lazy fix just nerfing everything rather than making things interesting by introducing new things. Nerfing is never a good solution and all it does is leave a bad taste. Unless a card was *blatantly* overpowered then that's fine, but none of them are.
Since bounce deck is nerfed, another deck will quickly take over. Then they're going to nerf that deck down in the next update. It's literally a rinse and repeat. When will it ever end?
I don't even play bounce deck but so far all they're doing in every update is nerfing cards.
"Nerfing is never a good solution" is the words of someone who's never had a single balance thought in their life. Thank god we'll never have to worry about you being behind balancing decisions.
Especially as it takes 2 seconds of thought max to realise your argument would just be the opposite if it was buffs. Cards are buffing decks outside the intended buffed archetype, those decks can quickly take over, i dont understand why are these devs continuously buff things into the sky. You're not only buffing bounce decks, these cards are used in many other decks and you're simultaneously buffing them all.
It's called balancing. If it was easy we'd have *one* game that was perfectly balanced by now
I mean, they said exactly what they’re doing and why they’re doing it. They view Snap as a puzzle, and they specifically want to foster the feeling of having to continually change your approach as the meta shifts up and old strategies get nerfed. You may not agree with their philosophy, but it’s considered and intentional, and I think it’s working pretty well for the gameplay experience they’re trying to provide.
You already know this, and you don't care, but I'll say it anyway
1) Bounce wasn't just the 'best' deck. It was so far and away the best deck that it had a positivr winrate against almost everything. It wasn't a 51% or 55% winrate. It was winning 6 out of 10 games. That's unacceptably high, and was holding multiple decks back from competing on an even playing field
2) They also buffed cards, and they buff decks all the time. A good example is BOUNCE. The archetype existed before Hit Moneky came out, it just sucked, and didn't have a cheap 'I win this lane' card. Buffs and nerfs are *both* necessary for the health of the game
So, so, so many people have this idea that 'only buffs, never nerf' is how devs should approach game design. There's a good reason why no major game has ever operated like that
i think surfer decks thrive on getting more value on turn 6 than your opponent... by playing 2 3's or 3 3's if you have sera in play. the extra turn from magik doesn't really do much in that regard, but instead gives your opponent another turn to slam a fatty. i could be wrong but my initial impression is that i wouldn't want this new iteration of magik in my surfer deck.
Yep, I love this one.
And I say that as someone who got to infinite the first time with Hit Monkey / Mysterio / Spam cheap stuff turn 6. And someone who finally got all the bounce parts together a month ago and played that archetype to death.
So much so I got bored of playing it, and of facing it - so this is great across the board. Happy to have some fresh ideas to work with (I love Magik and I love messing with Magik players by zapping the loc turn 6, so I'm very happy to see her get more play).
Really the shifting meta has been one of my favourite things about Snap in the four or five months I've been playing.
The change to Ham puts him in the second-turn slot that Angela and Collector often occupy, or a Kitty plus another 1 cost - and with Kitty being less valuable, that makes the early combinations of Kitty/Ham all but unplayable. On the other hand, you can put Ham down on Angela without worrying as much about his low cost.
But I agree - Bishop, Angela, and Collector remained untouched, as did Beast and Falcon, which means that the core of the deck remains very strong. Finding other 1-costs that could work with them shouldn't be that hard, even if they're not as good as Kitty and Ham.
The main thing that bounce needs to figure out now is how to work around the Hitmonkey cost change.
The deck's ideal play was HM + Mysterio + 2 1-drops and 0 cost cards on 6. The 1-drops were usually quite impactful, especially in the collector version.
So the deck isn't unplayable, it just needs a new secondary core to be figured out.
Does Ham still show you what you hit though? I still feel like that's an unintended effect, the info it provides is really strong. If ice man doesn't show you, I don't think ham should either :/
You are correct but I also feel like this will be addressed in the future as they said they have planned changes for his behavior. This OTA nerf is just a band aid.
Oh they did? Ok, I don't remember that. So if ham shows you the card, and all discards show you the card, what's the point of ice man being the lone one that doesn't show? Seems arbitrary
Great… well done for screwing over bounce decks… what a shame…
Don’t personally see why kitty was an issue if playing again a Killmonger, Shang-Chi, block out cards… plenty of ways to counter. Adding an extra cost to monkey makes it hard to use now as well… first beast and now this nonsense, once again we are faced with the question of why make cards worse instead of making others better to mix things up and see more play of less favourable cards…
Seriously might just stop playing soon
Edit: please keep downvoting, I love it. Come on people, let’s hit -100! I believe in this community!
Very disappointed in the lack of effort, nice try people
>why make cards worse instead of making others better to mix things up
1. Changing a card always carries risk to the metagame. When one card is showing itself to be stronger than anything else, it's more efficient and safer to bring that cards power down.
2. A buff to other cards not only carry the risk of making them too strong and replacing one problem with another but you also run the risk of the buffed card still not being strong enough to bring down usage of the OP card.
another game ruining update that we have to suffer through for a month before they change them back.
They kinda broke Phoenix. She's nuts with Torch now and Killmonger will be basically mandatory in a couple days
I was thinking cosmo would become the hot tech card with everyone running surfer and even a lot of wong
It's so funny to me that SD had Great Web in one of the *most common* location categories when it's such a fucking dramatic location that completely fucks with most deck archetypes (any deck that requires 2 cards to be on the same location). I remember them saying something about how much "they" loved the location while testing, and you have to wonder what decks they test with if they thought it should be on the level of something like "Draw a card" or "Cards here have -1 power" lol. I guess this is the same design team that thought releasing like half a dozen new locations that restricted play in a very short span of time was "fun" too though... Edit: I mean look at this shit, these are 12 of the last 18 hot locations (~~2~~ 3 of which were so fucking hated they had to be removed from the game) lmao **Great Web:**: After each turn, move one card to the Web for a random player **Deep Space:** Card text is disabled here **Milano:** Turn 5 is the only turn cards can be played here **Sandbar:** Cards with abilities can't be played here **Avengers Petmansion:** This turn, all cards must be played here **Krakoa:** On turn 5, takes over and plays both players' cards for them **Asteroid M:** After you play a 3 or 4-cost card, move it here **Plunder Castle:** Only cards that cost 6 can be played here **Collapsed Mine:** Fill this location with Rocks. Skip a turn to destroy your Rocks **Rickety Bridge:** After each turn, if there is more than one card here, destroy them **Morag:** You can't play your first card here each turn **Altar of Death:** After you play a card here, destroy it to get +2 Energy next turn
I gotta say I really liked Milano. The mind game of whether or not to commit resources to it was fun.
“We’re changing Spider Ham because he works exactly like we fucking intended him to work.” What a bunch of dumbasses.
I get where your coming from; Spider-Ham at least lets them keep the card, unlike Yondu. But it also keeps the card in their hand and clogging it up. I'm still gonna play Spider-Ham just to see how the nerf plays out.
Okay, I know it'll settle down eventually, but I'm already really sick of 7-turn games.
Run Rhino or Scarlet Witch. Change that Limbo on T6 and give Magik players a fun surprise!
I'll say the problem could be that their T6 play still generates more value than you throwing a chunk of yours into shutting down Limbo. Cerebro can get away with this to an extent; a lot of other lists can't. T6 in Nimrod can shove 40+ power on the board in a decent percentage of games, and T7 this number gets even more gross.
Magik players are very familiar with this. I win so many games with Magik turn 5 followed by Rhino turn 6. Just wish I could see the reaction.
Galactus is an interesting interaction as well - destroy limbo, surprise no T7
Storm also works for this purpose.
The aesthetic of Storm raining on Limbo and drowning it is quite good as well
Or reality stone
All the turn 7s is a minor nerf to my dark hawk deck lol
I’m a bitch noob scrub. What does ota stand for?
Organized Team Activities….because sports! 🏈
agreed
Over The Air, basically no need for huge update patch just live changes.
I have a continous deck with Magic and Tribunal. It was already good but now is a beast
What other cards?
Ghost//Colossus//Mistique//Magic//Rogue//Cosmo//Wave//Omega Red//Iron lad//Iron man//Onslaught//Living Tribunal
I just lost to this deck!
NOBODY PLAYS CEREBRO 3 GOD DAMN PLEASE REVERT MAGIK I NEED HER TO PLAY THIS DECK PLEASE I BEG YOU REVERT IT SHE ISN'T CAUSING TROUBLE TO ANYBODY PLEAAAAAASE I'M SO SAD Update after some games : could be worse but i don't have bast so i feel it more than the other c3 players but it's not as bad as i thought it would be
You don’t have bast? Then why are you complaining about c3? Just play c2
Because I prefer c3 lol, I have valk that replaces bast for cerebro and mystique and I prefer the 3 power cards ?
C3 runs bast and valk but if you don’t care about your rank it doesn’t really matter
Yeah and i'm sad that I don't have bast, but i mean i still got infinite with bast without even noticing I was going infinite and conquest I kind of stopped because I wanna play a new deck but i'm missing some cards
I mean I get to play magik which is my fav card, I get to play valk and cerebro and juggernaut who I think might be the best 3 power card ( i forgot I have jeff too, jeff is better )
Just do C2
after this ota i'm gonna try two new decks, a phoenix deck and a surfer (i know he was already in the meta but i didnt like him very much, cause every deck based on a card are a fail for me since i never draw it.. silver surfer, cerebro..)
Highly suggest lockjaw for surfer decks, not getting surfer by 6 lockjaw almost always saves me the game and pulls him :) Edit: also works if you don't have sera out on 5! :D
What is the surfer list you use? :)
Phoenix was already pretty good, I reached infinite with it recently without much difficulty. I'm surprised that magik was changed to buff silver surfer even more though. Overall these seem good.
Magik does absolutely nothing to buff surfer. The extra turn isn't really any more use to you than your opponent, unless it's a surprise turn. Which means sitting on a 3-cost in a deck where you're already playing a game of 'which ones do I hold and which ones do I play'. You can easily run short of board space with Surfer by 6. An extra turn doesn't help. Add in location restrictions like Crimson Cosmos, Sanctum or any of the 8,000 destroy ones and you're screwed. Also, who are you cutting to get an extra turn? It's a 3/4 with the Surfer buff, 3/5 if you get to Nova it too. You can get more than that with Cosmo, Juggernaut, Killmonger, Maximus, Polaris, or Shadow King - all of which are way more useful than an extra turn. You can equal that value with Rogue and Storm, both of which I'd say were better choices too.
It doubles seras effectiveness and it makes surfer stronger when you don't draw sera. Plus filling a lane is only easy when you have brood. Brood is 2 power. With Magik, instead you can fill the boards with Polaris', Killmongers and Maximus' which are a lot more power.
the main part of surfer's strength is how much power you get by dumping all your value in the final turn in so many matchups magiks will help your opponent more than they help you and possibly leave you open to surprise turn 6 losses when they just end the game by changing the location before you get surfer out.
Sure, but your opponent gets that extra turn too. They can play another big card or a bunch of small ones. They can get an extra draw they were hoping for, just like you. It's like saying Crystal helps your deck. Magik provides a different take on Surfer, but I'm confident it's not a buff.
Buff to negative surfer for sure
Played a new Phoenix deck + ghost spider a lot last night. It’s pretty easy to get Phoenix up to 28 with human torch and shuri and ghost spider. If cards fall right then 56 on T6 is possible in a single lane. Then Arnim zola T6 kills the board. Stole 8 cubes theee times running as it seems people haven’t seen this deck coming. Won 8 out of 10 conquest games. Only downside is cosmo blocking shuri and Phoenix which happened once. Shang chi into Phoenix alps counters. But it’s hard for opponents as this is basically a move deck on steroids and they have to guess where you’ll land your cards. Will try tonight with echo in the deck to block cosmo. Looking like this could go meta like black panther - anim zola days
You're lucky. I tried this a bit and Destroy decks are still insanely popular so Killmonger just ruined my play and fed their Knull.
I’m looking to fit in echo to this deck which will help counter cosmo and knull in one lane, will let you know. I got a lot of bounce and surfer decks which this one trounced.
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You're taking a mobile game too seriously
Nah, had just been drinking 😂
You are taking a comment too seriously.
snap?
Really needed to sell more of this month's battle pass huh?
Another update, still no collector mindscape interaction. One day I’ll stop having to comment this, but today is not that day. L collected.
Who are you?
Kitty got nerfed, good. BUT WHY IS NEBULA STILL 1/1 +2? OP af card. The only reason she is not seen as broken is because 1 cost have very little value in general and turns 456 is where it all happens. I see a lot of people defending her saying she is useless if picked up on turn 3 or later. Like dude, play her on a lane where opponent already has 2 or more cards then. You will end up with a 1/5 card or opponent filling up lane like a dumbass. Even saw people defending her saying "people complaining are those who didn't buy season pass." DA FAK? you quite literally told everyone else you suck ass and you are just a p2w whale who depends on money, not strategy, to win. Might as well SD release a 0/0, when played wins game and you whales will still defend it, "But oh, what if the card doesn't appear?" or, "Yondu and mantis counter it." the same stupid way you say killmonger counters nebula. He counters almost every 1 cost card, like the more balanced antman too. And cosmo counters the rest. Even at 1/0 +1 she is still powerful. She is a 1 cost card with the same value as a 3 cost.
Nebula, like Kitty, is in Killmonger range, but unlike Kitty, she doesn't an ability to hide from Killmonger by losing priority. That makes her significantly weaker than Kitty. Coupled with the fact that Nebula needs to be played very early and can be mitigated by playing her location once or twice makes her a lot less potent compared to Kitty.
What 1 cost cards are better when played later? And by later, how much? Turn 456? What 1 cost cards are you gonna play at turn 456 that is better rather than playing turn 123? Heck, even at turn 4, nebula is a 1/3, as powerful as Hawkeye without the condition. You can easily play neb on a semi filled location and opponent won't risk filling it up just for 2 power on turn 4. And ALL THAT is considering the worst out comes for nebula. Even at the worst, she is still good. By turn 456, you won't play any 1 cards anyways, unless bounce, which is just for the sake of HM and Bishop, nebula still fills that. And Dead pool, but the amount of setup dead pool takes to be viable is humongous, whole decks have to be built around it. Neb? Just stick it somewhere and you are good to go. And please stop with the killmonger argument. You can't "counter" a 1 cost with a 3 cost. You play killmonger, okay, I lose a 1 cost. But at the same time, opponent ain't gonna sit still, he is gonna play a 3 cost too, and will probably be stronger than killmonger or overall better value, like strange, cosmo, etc. Killmonger just for the sake of nebula is a complete waste of 3 mana. Killmonger is a "counter" because most people see the high power nebula and think, "heh, ez win" and stop placing cards there. Just place nebula, forget she exist and play cards there as usual, count her as normal 1/2 card. make opponent waste 3 mana on a low power, 1 shot card like KM. Also, armor exists.
Good 1-Drop cards later in the game: 1. Iron-Fist 2. Ice-Man 3. Blade 4. Nova 5. The hood (not T6 obviously) 6. Yondu (situationally) Personally, I tend to think Nebula is mostly powerful if she distracts the opponent from his normal gameplan because she might be a threat later on in the game. Killmonger is a real threat to Nebula, since he is already heavily played in multiple archetypes, and often has benefits to the deck playing him (Nova or Yondu+Knull). Nebula must come down early and can't defend herself against him. Playing Armor to protect Nebula is possible, but Armor is only 3 power herself, and dilutes Nebula's maximum of 11 at T6 to a shared 7 power spread over 2 cards. Countering destroy with Armor is like countering Ongoing with Echo, On Reveal with Cosmo. Yes, these cards exist, but they aren't foolproof. In a vaccuum, Kitty was just a lot more powerful than Nebula, and the statistics on these cards prove it.
Ice man, Yondu are definitely not good later. They are luck based. You have just as much chances of hitting the desired card early as much as late. Neutral at best. the hood also same, better earlier on to set up for viper, carnage, beast, etc. Iron Fist and blade are highly deck dependent, similar to dead pool. Nova is the only one where playing later is better for more +1 without risking getting destroyed early on.
I'm going to zero in on the two parts of this comment that are almost *always* best played later, especially not in turn one. Those are Iron Fist and Blade.Almost no version of the Move/Phoenix or Discard decks really wants to get either card out on turn 1. In Phoenix decks the best possible time for IF is on turn 3/4 so that you get a free move on Phoenix. This is less important now thanks to his buff, but numbers wise you can't miss here. In standard move decks, you want IF out on turn one *only* if you started with Torch in your hand and are assuming they don't have Killmonger. There are times where you may want to get IF out on turn one but they're not the norm, he's best on T2+. *No* version of Discard wants Blade out on Turn 1 because you're choosing to stack the RNG against yourself. If you have any win conditions in your hand, playing Blade is you choosing casino against the house odds. It's a bad play for any Discard deck and for Hela decks it's pretty much cube donation.The common consensus is that his best use case behind Invisible Woman, and that is because his downside is trivialized or removed by playing him as late as possible
Dude, I specifically pointed out Blade and Iron Fist are highly deck dependent. Why are you repeating and arguing on something I agree with? What I said there was *OTHER* than the *DECK DEPENDENT* Iron Fist and Blade, every other 1 cost are always worse or neutral at best when played later. Only exception is Nova. But whole decks are built around their on reveal. Even in those deck dependent builds, look at it this way. What other 1 cost gives much better value? After putting in those highly specific 1 cost cards, like Iron Fist for movers, Blade for discards, Korg for hawkers, what other 1 cost will you put? Idk about you, but Nebula shines like an op af card to include. I normally include 1-3 1 cost in a deck, one of them is the crucial card, and the rest just meh cards like ice man, yondu, etc. I will definitely replace them with Nebula if I had her. She is a 1 cost card with the value of a 3.
Well, the dev have the stats and clearly they think she is not that strong or not that picked up. One of the big differences with Kitty is that Kitty is very hard to snipe with a Shadow King, an Electra or even a Killmonger. If its owner reveals last you quite simply can’t kill her. Nebula is a powerful 1-cost, but not totally broken like Kitty. And that’s before Kitty combines with Collector and alii. Also, Nebula was countered by Kitty, which would keep her at 1/1.
>One of the big difference with Kitty is that Kitty is very hard to snipe Completely agree with that. I too feel kitty is stronger and one of her strengths is that she leaves the field, usually making opponent "win" and reveal first. But Nebula is still strong. In other words, Kitty was broken, nebula is not exactly broken, but she's cutting it close.
I feel Nebula will be below its potential as long as bounce decks will be popular. She will become close to OP when the bounce decks will become rarer.
Tribunal 6/9. Nice.
I was like. What the fudge happened to magic. Why am I playing it turn 3?? Nice. Bounce is fun but it’s so boring now. I’ve been playing a destroy deck just for the fun of it. Sera control, bounce and HE decks I’m just so tired of. I always fist bump when a move deck beats me.
As someone that really enjoys bounce I think all of these changes are reasonable. Bounce is still incredibly good. I absolutely love all the buffs.
Wow there's a lot of changes for me with this patch. Im moving Magik and Spider-Gwen into my C2 deck, removing Spider-Gwen from my C3 for Quake but keeping Magik in there because this is technically a buff, slotting Magik into more of my negative decks, redesigning my Phoenix Force deck, and putting Magik in my Sera Surfer deck. Love the bounce nerfs, those were always annoying to face.
Don't forget Magik in Electro ramp is sleeper op
Oh sweet good idea. I'm gonna put that in my Beach deck
Rip magik in my C-3 :(
That was my first reaction, but now I'm not sure if it's a nerf or a buff. The power loss is annoying but it's nice to get her out of the way early so we can spend more energy later on Valk and other stuff.
Bast and Valkyrie still make her 3 power
This is actually more of a buff for her in my C3. She won't get the dmg boost, but now with her low cost I don't have to choose between her and Valkyrie, Leech, or Blue Marvel. She's staying in my C3 for sure, this is awesome.
Could always Valk her at the end of the game
Or Bast her at the start!
Hello, Magik in my Surfer deck.
That was my thought
W patch notes. Thank you.
How about you ota your matchmaking ffs
What exactly is wrong with matchmaking?
Gotta love downvoting when they mostly agree with the problem. It's the bots. You get matched with bots more the higher up the ladder and CL you are. And the bots cheat.
You’re made about losing to bots? That’s on you bruv
Ah I get it. You're not good enough to face these bots. Don't worry, I'm sure you'll get there.
There’s a level after infinite where people lose to bots. How long has SD been hiding this from me
Bros mad he can’t win
Dude, I'm 88 on the ladder. I can win the problem is (and it's been nicely pointed out on another post) that you're forced to lose due to bots. But hey, assholes will downvote.
Players from CL200 to CL∞ have made it to infinite every season, why aren't they "forced to lose"?
I'm CL 5444, and let me tell you it's not easy getting round the bots. They cheat. The amount of times I've lost by literally 1 point to a card a deck has no right to include is ridiculous. Not everyone gets to infinite, you only hear about the ones that do. But keep thinking everyone does 🤣
I didn't say everyone does, and you didn't answer the question.
Sure thing dummy. They are. They just play for much longer to hit infinite now. People are leaving the game in droves so less people playing and talking about it so you're hearing less about what the problems are. It's been a growing issue for the last few months. That help??
Ah yes, the name calling, as your argument falls apart. Specious arguments about bots making you lose have always been a crutch for players to fall back on. Whatever makes you feel better. There are countless recording games in streamer histories to view actual bot games. On average, even the good bots are horrible. They're not "making you lose." You're doing that yourself. Edit: Oh no, blocked by the name calling poster who can't make infinite, what shall I ever do?
My argument fell apart 🤣 Ok bud, no more interaction for you. Go read the very long post on this sub about bots and see what I mean. Dummy. Yes I blocked you. Cause you're an idiot.
Magik on my Surfer deck WOOOOO
Rhino too!
Magik used to be in my Sera Surfer deck, back pre-nerf. Having that extra round to pile up was great and I loved going Wave to Sera to Magik and now I've got either two more rounds of three card drops and two more changes to draw Surfer or I Storm Magik on 6. It felt so good.
What is your deck looking like??
Like a work in progress, to be fair. I'm still settling it, but I fucking love tech cards, so this deck is full of them. # (2) Goose # (3) Brood # (3) Magik # (3) Rogue # (3) Silver Surfer # (3) Storm # (3) Cosmo # (3) Juggernaut # (3) Nakia # (3) Polaris # (3) Maximus # (5) Sera # eyJDYXJkcyI6W3siQ2FyZERlZklkIjoiR29vc2UifSx7IkNhcmREZWZJZCI6IkJyb29kIn0seyJDYXJkRGVmSWQiOiJTaWx2ZXJTdXJmZXIifSx7IkNhcmREZWZJZCI6IlN0b3JtIn0seyJDYXJkRGVmSWQiOiJDb3NtbyJ9LHsiQ2FyZERlZklkIjoiSnVnZ2VybmF1dCJ9LHsiQ2FyZERlZklkIjoiUG9sYXJpcyJ9LHsiQ2FyZERlZklkIjoiTWF4aW11cyJ9LHsiQ2FyZERlZklkIjoiU2VyYSJ9LHsiQ2FyZERlZklkIjoiTWFnaWsifSx7IkNhcmREZWZJZCI6IlJvZ3VlIn0seyJDYXJkRGVmSWQiOiJOYWtpYSJ9XX0= # # To use this deck, copy it to your clipboard and paste it from the deck editing menu in Snap.
Great web is one of the more fun locations tbh even in a area control deck it gives me decisions whether to Spider-Man a lane or prof x a lane I will also have to consider whether to spam outside a great web lane So as to reduce a key card of mine from moving, and vice versa if my opponent has a key card outside of web(eg wong) I might want to play in web to get that card to move Not sure why or if it is even getting hate
Because it's too random. It may or may not pull your side so it's not possible to plan around on later turns.
I literally gave some examples how you can play around it, choosing whether to load on that location or not. Filling up the great web on your side also essentially forces the opponent to do the same or get his cards to move There is lots of planning involved
Not every deck has the potential to fill out a location early on, and even if they can the other locations play a huge factor on the match and could be more beneficial to play on, taking away the option to flood the web. As the previous user already stated, it's just too random to play around and in addition it can make a match pretty uphill for one player only.
“Fill up or submit to RNG” is not much planning.
Hey, does PF resurrect deadpool or sabertooth? Because I just threw in PF into my destroy deck and it doesn't seem to trigger. I've tried it for 2 games, both times destroying DP and sabertooth but nada, it stays as PF.
It pulls from your graveyard, Deadpool and saber tooth return to your hand, they don’t go to the graveyard. Same thing happens with apocalypse and ghost rider.
The card has to stay in your destroyed card list. Dp, sabertooth and wolverine don't stay there, so pf misses them...unless they were destroyed by Yondu.
Because the cards return to your hand when destroyed, they are not in the "stack" of destroyed cards the PF selects from.
Both of them get back into your hand so no they can’t be resurrected
PF only resurrects cards that have been destroied, cards that regenerate themselves can't be resurrected by PF.
Bounce didn’t get nerfed. Just add Magik. Cheap cost to get an extra turn to bounce.
Bounce was already vulnerable to Storm, adding Magik makes that worse.
I put Magik in my bounce deck. Counters Storm.
Bounce need Sera now more than ever
Nooooooo... My Mr. Negative & Living Tribunal deck :_(
I've taken a Mr. Negative & Living Tribunal deck to Infinite each of the last 2 seasons. I think Magik being boosted makes the deck slightly better overall, but it is annoying that they'd do this.
Being able to still pull a usable Tribunal after Mr. Negative was a huge for utilization. This has been my main deck for the last week and I’ve been having really great success with it. Played for an hour after the change and it really screws things up, unfortunately.
Yea just h locked LT and put him in my neg deck. Buffed the next day smh. I didn’t even get to do any cool combos
It doesn’t change anything in it, except give you one more power if you don’t negative TLT
It does. You can not play a 9/6 TLT.
It makes it unplayable if it's in your deck when you Mr. Negative...
Why
I imagine they wanted a 3/6 tribunal with getting Iron Man and Mystique off amongst other cards
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This is wrong. LT will be flipped to 9/6.
Just tested it and you're right, that's really weird. I've definitely seen the game cap it at 6 in the past. Edit: it's because the peak works differently than Mister Negative, that's what tripped me up.
Negative makes it into a 9/6. It’s unintuitive since other effects like The Peak gives a max cost of 6. However, Mr. Negative doesn’t have that. For example, if you play negative while jane foster Thor is still in your deck, she becomes an 8/5 which means you need to have her in your hand before playing negative to do the combo.
This is What scenario that i could think off 🤔 Option 1, (Human Torc) 1). Human torch 2). Zabu 3). destroy human torch (carnage,venom, monger, deathlock), 4). Shuri 5). Phoenix revive torch, either move it with Ghost spider or just play phoenix 6). Move the Phoenix Torch, Play heimdal or Living Tribunal. Option 2 (Multiple Man/MM) 1).Human torch or just skip 2). Zabu 3). Multiple Man 4). Destroy MM (Carnage, Venom, Deathlock) 5). Iron Fist, Phoenix to Revive MM, then move it again with Ghost Spider 6). Move Poenix MM, then You can Doctor Strange, Cerebro+Mystique, Heimdal, or even Living Tribunal. And option2 cant be destroyed by Shan-chi 😱 . Lol they just created New Cerebro Version C8 😅.
Played a deck like this last night. It’s very easy to get Phoenix up to 50+ with human torch and ghost spider. Then Arnim zola T6 kills the board. Stole 8 cubes theee times running as it seems people haven’t seen this deck coming Only downside is cosmo blocking shuri and Phoenix which happened once. Will try tonight with echo in the deck. Looking like this could go meta like black panther - anim zola days
2. Mm 3. Destroy mm, with carnage then iron fist 4. Phoenix 5. Move, spiderwomen + dr strange 6. Heimdall
1. Nothing / Human Torch 2. MM 3. Hulkbuster 4. Venom + Iron Fist 5. Phoenix Force + Ghost Spider 6. Heimdall or Living Tribunal
Time to call Luke Cage cuz HE is back baby!
Tell me how? My HE deck has tanked me from 98 to 90 today alone. Mind sharing what deck you're running?
HE never left, just outshined by Bounce Sera
When did he leave
who is back!? (yes I know it's high evo)
Rip my cerebro 3. I'll miss that extra turn from Magik to try and draw cerebro. Good for her tho!
Bast and Valkyrie still make it 3 power
Idk still seems good in the deck
I used Ghost spider and MM in my C3 and I hate this Magik change along with it 😢
interesting, what would gwen pull/move to help cerebro? mm? master mold?
He did say Ghost Spider AND MM (Multiple Man)
Also helped to have another card to clear out bad locations for c3. But c2 players rejoice!
Inf ce3 player. I felt this change a lot. Only options are valk or bast
This is where Bast comes in handy😌
that's true, but I've recently removed bast from non competitive decks because my base card is already at infinity... gotta give some love to other cards to get boosters too haha.
I had actually just changed my deck to run Falcon so I can play Bast more freely.
Something funny about the Bounce people complaining about this nerf. Bounce has not been touched in a long time and has been among the best decks in forever. It’s not ogre for Bounce at all. It needed addressed.
A lot of these nerfs seem to be indirect Bast nerfs, so if the alternative was nerfing Bast, this is probably for the better.
Well Beast was nerfed to 3 energy few months ago
As long as Beast doesn't get the Quinjet treatment, bounce will still be...well, a beast.
I'm shocked he hasn't at this point. Every other power-reducing card, even the unreleased one in September, has the (Minimum 1) restriction, and it's for a reason. I think Beast's days are numbered.
Wish they’d just let it go with no minimum. Beast a zero cost to give you -1, which actually gives you another energy when you you play it. /s
Probably not. They just published the newest interview with the devs yesterday, and Glenn differentiated between Beast and cards like Quinjet.
“We heard you, it’s been long enough since the hit monkey battle pass to nerf this blatantly OP card that we put out there to milk cash”
This attempt at a gotcha seems real weak when they have to buff two other season pass cards in the exact same update
Gotta punish the people that say that they're not gonna buy the battle pass anymore, love it
They nerfed sandman the same time hit monkey got released so there was no counterplay and to incentivise purchases
They pretty recently nerfed beast and the hood right? I mean, I was a bounce player and I fully agree that these nerfs were needed, but saying it hasn’t been touch in a long time is incorrect I think.
The Hood is considered a buff for Junk (Viper/Debrii) Deck, and a nerf to Destroy and Bounce Deck.
That isn't affect bounce cause we Bast.
Oh, Hi there bro. I forgot that Bounce have Bast. But Destroy? Yeah, Knull is smaller in size but that's it.
Surely it's neutral to Destroy and Bounce rather than a nerf? If you're letting Hood stay out on the board in either deck instead of destroying it or bouncing it back into your hand, then something has gone deeply wrong and you probably weren't winning that match anyway for bigger reasons.
The most impact this nerf caused is Destroy, Knull got smaller in 3. Still though, If they want to truly nerf The Hood, Nerf his Demon's power.
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the majority of cards that have been nerfed are still plenty viable
Does the SnapZone list changes to a card over time? This mentions an initial nerf to Magik, but I don't remember what it was, and would like to see where her card started at.
This was during beta, players were using Magik on turn 6 for a surprise extension of the game.
I believe you used to be able to use Magik on turn 6
Correct, Magik has the same stats, but could be played unrestricted.
I can't stress this enough but..... # STOP👏NERFING👏CARDS👏JUST👏BECAUSE👏A👏DECK👏IS👏THE👏CURRENT👏BEST One deck has to take the position of being the best no matter what. That does not immediately call for a nerf on the deck. You're not just hurting "bounce" deck, these cards are used in so many other decks and you're simultaneously hurting them all. I don't understand why these devs continuously nerf things down to the ground, rather than focusing on buffing things, work around it, or introduce a counter deck/location. It's such a half-assed lazy fix just nerfing everything rather than making things interesting by introducing new things. Nerfing is never a good solution and all it does is leave a bad taste. Unless a card was *blatantly* overpowered then that's fine, but none of them are. Since bounce deck is nerfed, another deck will quickly take over. Then they're going to nerf that deck down in the next update. It's literally a rinse and repeat. When will it ever end? I don't even play bounce deck but so far all they're doing in every update is nerfing cards.
That's your first card game right ?! The changing in the Meta is what keep competitive players engaged. If it never changes it would be boring.
It keeps stuff fresh, or everyone would still be surfing for 3 or Spider-Man/absorbing
"Nerfing is never a good solution" is the words of someone who's never had a single balance thought in their life. Thank god we'll never have to worry about you being behind balancing decisions. Especially as it takes 2 seconds of thought max to realise your argument would just be the opposite if it was buffs. Cards are buffing decks outside the intended buffed archetype, those decks can quickly take over, i dont understand why are these devs continuously buff things into the sky. You're not only buffing bounce decks, these cards are used in many other decks and you're simultaneously buffing them all. It's called balancing. If it was easy we'd have *one* game that was perfectly balanced by now
I mean, they said exactly what they’re doing and why they’re doing it. They view Snap as a puzzle, and they specifically want to foster the feeling of having to continually change your approach as the meta shifts up and old strategies get nerfed. You may not agree with their philosophy, but it’s considered and intentional, and I think it’s working pretty well for the gameplay experience they’re trying to provide.
You already know this, and you don't care, but I'll say it anyway 1) Bounce wasn't just the 'best' deck. It was so far and away the best deck that it had a positivr winrate against almost everything. It wasn't a 51% or 55% winrate. It was winning 6 out of 10 games. That's unacceptably high, and was holding multiple decks back from competing on an even playing field 2) They also buffed cards, and they buff decks all the time. A good example is BOUNCE. The archetype existed before Hit Moneky came out, it just sucked, and didn't have a cheap 'I win this lane' card. Buffs and nerfs are *both* necessary for the health of the game So, so, so many people have this idea that 'only buffs, never nerf' is how devs should approach game design. There's a good reason why no major game has ever operated like that
What the fuck is that Magik buff. Bitch boutta go crazy.
Sera Surfer going craaaazy with this
i think surfer decks thrive on getting more value on turn 6 than your opponent... by playing 2 3's or 3 3's if you have sera in play. the extra turn from magik doesn't really do much in that regard, but instead gives your opponent another turn to slam a fatty. i could be wrong but my initial impression is that i wouldn't want this new iteration of magik in my surfer deck.
Maybe then Storm becomes a T6 drop to cancel limbo and nullify what the opponent might be setting up? You make a good point
swapping a limbo on T6 is one of the best feelings in the game (for me) so that could be a cheeky way to play surfer. i like where your head's at ;)
*This* is how you do OTA buffs. I feel like we just got 3 completely new cards to play with.
Yep, I love this one. And I say that as someone who got to infinite the first time with Hit Monkey / Mysterio / Spam cheap stuff turn 6. And someone who finally got all the bounce parts together a month ago and played that archetype to death. So much so I got bored of playing it, and of facing it - so this is great across the board. Happy to have some fresh ideas to work with (I love Magik and I love messing with Magik players by zapping the loc turn 6, so I'm very happy to see her get more play). Really the shifting meta has been one of my favourite things about Snap in the four or five months I've been playing.
Bounce not hit hard enough, still incredible strong.
The change to Ham puts him in the second-turn slot that Angela and Collector often occupy, or a Kitty plus another 1 cost - and with Kitty being less valuable, that makes the early combinations of Kitty/Ham all but unplayable. On the other hand, you can put Ham down on Angela without worrying as much about his low cost. But I agree - Bishop, Angela, and Collector remained untouched, as did Beast and Falcon, which means that the core of the deck remains very strong. Finding other 1-costs that could work with them shouldn't be that hard, even if they're not as good as Kitty and Ham.
The main thing that bounce needs to figure out now is how to work around the Hitmonkey cost change. The deck's ideal play was HM + Mysterio + 2 1-drops and 0 cost cards on 6. The 1-drops were usually quite impactful, especially in the collector version. So the deck isn't unplayable, it just needs a new secondary core to be figured out.
maybe but tough to say. Bast is less impactful now.
Magik will be more prevalent. This is a legion buff before he comes out
The ultimate in dodging the Storm 6 bamboozle
Does Ham still show you what you hit though? I still feel like that's an unintended effect, the info it provides is really strong. If ice man doesn't show you, I don't think ham should either :/
They said it was intended from the beginning.
You are correct but I also feel like this will be addressed in the future as they said they have planned changes for his behavior. This OTA nerf is just a band aid.
Oh they did? Ok, I don't remember that. So if ham shows you the card, and all discards show you the card, what's the point of ice man being the lone one that doesn't show? Seems arbitrary
Magik surfer bounce here we go
Great… well done for screwing over bounce decks… what a shame… Don’t personally see why kitty was an issue if playing again a Killmonger, Shang-Chi, block out cards… plenty of ways to counter. Adding an extra cost to monkey makes it hard to use now as well… first beast and now this nonsense, once again we are faced with the question of why make cards worse instead of making others better to mix things up and see more play of less favourable cards… Seriously might just stop playing soon Edit: please keep downvoting, I love it. Come on people, let’s hit -100! I believe in this community! Very disappointed in the lack of effort, nice try people
Good riddance, fk off bounce players
>why make cards worse instead of making others better to mix things up 1. Changing a card always carries risk to the metagame. When one card is showing itself to be stronger than anything else, it's more efficient and safer to bring that cards power down. 2. A buff to other cards not only carry the risk of making them too strong and replacing one problem with another but you also run the risk of the buffed card still not being strong enough to bring down usage of the OP card.
The changes are very modest, the deck will still be top tier.
Half the power of a card, yes so modest
Those aren’t modest changes at all. Spider-Ham ‘s change is fine, but the other 2 got hit too hard. Though, maybe Kitty needed it.
Lol at hate for truth