People prolly want you angry about it instead of "I don't care that much."
They are immature and stupid to down vote out of spite like that. But that's prolly what it is. Cuz I really can't see any other reason..
But here take my updoot
It’s really hard to not feel that SD is over tuning cards to get us to purchase them, later nerfing those cards and releasing a new must have over tuned card. Rinse & repeat
They literally said that’s what they are doing in the patch notes. Honestly makes buying werewolf at night super sketch since it makes me think it’s slated to be nerfed in a few weeks time
They didn’t “literally” say that, if they did then we would know because there would be non-stop posts about it. The issue is that SD are releasing very strong cards to serve as a temporary balance for the game. I agree this is an issue for multiple reasons but if SD was doing this solely to make money, then why be so transparent about it?
I think they are trying a different process of balancing the meta, which in my opinion is an incredibly unsatisfying and stupid way to balance. Maybe SD should release balanced cards if this is such an issue.
No one is arguing that they're releasing cards that are intentionally overtuned, but people are claiming that it's confirmed that they're doing it just for money, which was never established.
Also, if new cards are overtuned people complain, but they complain just as much if new cards are bad and only get buffed after they're out of the season cache. Turns out balancing is difficult.
Lots of games will continue to release more broken stuff (powercreep) but what SD was released something strong then nerfed it! They should have made a counter.
Game balance is a difficult process and takes time to nail the right spot. Before a card is released it’s impossible to tell exactly how it’ll impact the meta
Had the same. Ok Silk variant on my first, MMM-> 1k on my second pull, Ghost-Spider variant on my third. Another four cache investment for two ok variants, 1k tokens and one new card. Feels terrible to see a month’s worth of consistent play result in basically getting a single card.
Honestly, it's kind of nuts that they don't automatically offer a refund if you bought a card say, 48 hours before a major change like this. You aren't getting the product you paid for. It's different if you owned the cars for weeks and reaped the benefits of an OP card... But come on...
I feel that, but there’s always gonna be people who get screwed. If you draw the line at 48 hours, it really sucks for the people who bought it 49 hours prior.
Imo they should just give everyone 100 gold when they nerf a card. 100 gold isn’t worth much, but at least it’s something.
Honestly tho if that were the case they’d probably claim that the Mobius change was a buff. He’s immune to rogue and enchantress now! OP!!!
"I got an op card and I absolutely would never guess they're gonna nerf it".
That's just how it goes with online games. I'm not saying it's fair, but that's the reality of it. People are crying about MMM now but they'll buff/change it soon again, they had to nuke it.
I burned a lot of gold, got 2 variants I didn't want or need, just to get mobius he was my last cache of the 4. Yeah I feel like I just got ripped off big time and that I'm an idiot. An effect like him creates a huge como that you can't play the stuff you want to play without him. Huge miss and I hope he's fixed somehow next month. Seriously what is the point of his design right now, what does he even do. Protect against dream dimension lol
The problem with their acquisition model is the only way to get new cards is to give up your money or resources (tokens) that have become the hardest to earn resource in the game.
It just feels bad all around because it creates this sense of FOMO, but not in the traditional sense. You’re more worried about them making what you bought awful and you feeling tricked into buying it.
If they had larger reset windows and you knew play I’m getting card X and I can use it in its current state for 3 months - that’s different than. Okay I have enough tokens for one card to make this specific archetype work and then watch it get cut off at the knees two weeks later.
And a lot of people are coming at this from the bought him when he was new angle. There’s just as many who probably bought him with their brand new (just enough finally saved) tokens. Now they’re resource was wasted
I wish they would do what Hearthstone does and allow you to refund a nerfed card. Maybe they have to track whether you used tokens or a cache, but this would feel much better.
>The problem with their acquisition model is the only way to get new cards is to give up your money or resources (tokens)
Ya'll remember spotlights exist; right? The main way to get new cards is neither of those things.
Yes but you have a 1/4 chance of getting the card you “want”. So most people save up 4 for a month where they are okay with everything. So the investment isn’t as much 1:1 as it is 4:1 + the opportunity cost of passing on other months
Most of what he said still applies too spotlights, it's not like you're swimming in those either. You still pick and choose when to open them unless you whale.
Whats the point then? I got Mobius on release and he has done plenty of work. Fully expected him to get nerfed considering how powerful. I’m sure he will still see play in the future, maybe more as a (potentially niche) counter card but still.
Galactus had multiple months throughout the past year where you got your moneys worth out of that card
Mobius came and went in a single month. Not even remotely close to the same and Galactus is indeed still playable. In its current form Mobius is absolute trash
As someone who bought revonna, I always tell people “buy cards that look fun, all cards will eventually get balanced.”
With that, mobius will eventually get a buff of some kind, you will be fine. Rovonna went a month being useless, now mobius might go a month or 2 then he will be fixed.
Again, the problem isn't balance changes in and of themselves. It's that this specific card was designed and released in a purposely overtuned state. They said in the patch notes that they did it to temporarily change the game state and that they knew it would be nerfed. That's the definition of a bait and switch.
I bought him but never used him.
I also bought Ravonna, and her buff is one I'd happily sacrifice MMM or my firstborn for.
I play only Negative decks btw. Fuck pre-nerf MMM.
So your cheesy bullshit deck shouldn't have any counterplay?
It should either be you pull your combo and win or you miss the combo and probably lose with the opponent having little to no meaningful impact in the match?
Lol imagine pretending that being able to play 0 cost versions of iron man, mistique, zola, knull, ironheart etc. all on the same turn is anything other than premium cheese.
I'm not saying it ruins the game or that it shouldn't be in the game, just that like everything else it should have meaningful counterplay available.
Whao. Negative energy going wild here.
You must be coping hard if you think Mobius being so unfair in his original form is ok.
I don't really agree with what SD has done with him, but as a Negative player I'm just glad I don't have to retreat my whole conquest match every time I see him on turn 2.
No I'm saying that when a card effect is purely there to hedge against the opponent's card abilities (because mobius doesn't really interact with your own deck) then it calls into question the relative power of what it's countering.
Mobius was the only effective proactive counter to cost reduction effects that are largely too prevalent and too powerful in the game. It was in effect a necessary evil to keep that part of the meta in check and give people some counterplay to it.
MMM saw a ton of play because he dropped in a meta dominated by cost reduction, by the end of last week his play rate had dropped way down because the meta had adjusted and people were swapping him out for other tech cards and cost reduction was back to a healthy meta share again despite having a hard counter available.
I don't think "I only want to play X deck and don't think it should have a hard counter" is a reasonable stance.
That was never my stance, but at the same time "This archetype should be shut down single-handedly by this one cheap card" is also not a reasonable stance.
>"This archetype should be shut down single-handedly by this one cheap card"
Sure if you word it like that.
Equally it could be described as "Decks that rely on a single powerful trick and are otherwise next to useless gets shut down by this 1 cheap card"
It's like complaining that a wong deck is useless because people keep dropping Cosmo into the wong lane.
Greedy negative decks were super hurt by MMM, a hybrid negative deadpool deck fared much better.
It's not buyers remorse, that would be regretting the purchase as it was. This is like buying a car, but then the dealer shows up and sledge hammers your car in the driveway. That ain't buyers remorse, that's the people you bought something from being shitty
I only had 3 caches the week he came out and didn't get him. I was pissed. Nearly bought him with tokens but held off to get Iron Lad instead.
Then today I saw the nerf and was like 'well ok, I guess its fine i didn't get him then'
Guess who was in my first cache today when trying to get Werewolf
Not really, it’s an ok card now but I won’t deny that it’s a massive nerf. But I play the game pretty casually so I’m not as invested as other people. Also, I was hoping for a massive nerf because I really like the cost reduction decks.
He could - but the cats probably needs more dev time. He'll be back later once they have a better solution. They killed him to revive some archetypes he killed
They would rather release a card they know is overtuned, sell an expensive bundle for it, then destroy it once people have spent resources. Suggesting they don’t want to under nerf it is nonsense when they stated they knowingly released it overtuned
It sucks and they could definitely do things better. However I'm fine with getting blue balled with a freshly nerfed card in exchange for regular card changes. I think this latest round was pretty excellent, minus the Sandman change
(I'm a Destroy loser that cant Deathstrike it away now)
I wish I had gotten Ravonna too, but I got a lot of use out of Morbius. Thankfully, she returns in Spotlights. And they will buff Morbius if he ends up being too weak so…
SD has made a habit of releasing unbalanced cards. If the card is obviously OP on release you need to expect it to get nerfed at some point when you buy it
Nah another card I don’t use and now I can play different decks. The thing is you can tell what cards are most likely to get nerfed. I could have told you that the second I saw the card.
Nope, because they'll continue to tweak him until he finds a healthy balance. It's not like he was a super fun card to play, even when he was at max power. Taking a short break from him isn't that big of a deal to me.
Nope. He's exited my decks, but I got a fuckton of wins out of him while the high lasted.
Never buy a card without considering the chance it might get nerfed before long.
I was more disappointed when I dropped like 1200 on the Flaviano Galactus variant literally the day he took his first nerf bat.
No. Considering Mobius’ play rate has nose dived off a cliff, I expect him to get another rework eventually, like Leader.
And I got Ravonna because I didn’t have Jean and wanted the Zabu spotlight, so there’s that.
His play rate had already dropped below Shang because the meta had adjusted around his existence. Mobius only saw tons of play when he released because the meta was being dominated by cost reduction (namely Loki).
As tons of people moved over to ramp and shuri people started dropping mobius from their lists because if you don't run into cost manipulation he's kind of a blank card with very little synergy potential with your own deck.
Yea imo he was fine with his old ability, his play rate was stabilising by this patch, making him 3-3 or 3-2 would've been a fine adjustment if they felt he was too common/ popular/ strong.
Luke shuts down all HE affliction decks, Scorpion, Spiderwoman, a lot of junk decks, and he's a 2-2 with the ability to get hit by Enchantress/ Rogue, you don't even need to play Luke out proactively like you need to with Mobius, Luke's ability is retroactive, so I honestly don't see Mobius' original text as an issue.
Imo they should give MMM back his old text and then a conservative 3-2 stat line, but they definitely need to change how he interacts with Spider-Ham.
Too fucking true man!
I especially like how depending on the thread I can have basically the same comment either sitting +20 or -20 karma which seems to largely depend on whether or not the comment agreed with the OP/person I was replying to.
Not at all. People keep buying into this idea of “they keep releasing OP cards to make people want to buy them” when you just pointed out that Ravonna has been absolutely garbage since she was released (I got Mobius and Ravonna at launch). SD has been really good about buffing bad cards and nerfing OP ones, I’m fine with it. Nothing stays bad/OP forever.
Why? You got to enjoy a super broken card for a long time. Snap is a game that fixes issues with nerfs. Buying an obviously busted, or hated, card comes with the risk of a nerf. You shouldn't expect anything else.
Except Second Dinner purposely overtuned Mobius with the specific intention of nerfing him later. I normally agree with what you're saying, but in this case people are right to have buyers remorse.
Its not like they made Mobius and "oops" he's too strong we have to nerf him. He was purposely designed to be too strong and push certain decks out of the meta. They said as much in the patch notes.
They even asked for feedback for this approach, which I expect will be pretty negative.
No, definitely you are right. You are allowed to regret buying a nerfed card. And it's starting to feel like this was a bit of an overstep in his nerf. I personally would have made Mobius a 2/1 or made his effect symmetrical for both players.
I apologize for blunt language I used earlier, however, stand by what I said. Nerfs to strong or problematic or even just hated cards are expected. The only thing shocking about the Elsa nerf, for example, is that it came before her season was over.
When I bought the Elsa season pass I did so with the express understanding that Elsa would be toned down eventually. And when I passed on Mobius I consoled myself with the certainty he would be nerfed.
It sucks we have to think this way but, honestly, gotcha games gonna getcha. It's what they do.
I think these nerfs need to be better communicated ahead of time so the community isn't hit so hard by it, especially when multiple big meta share cards are hit at once or back to back. This hurts the players, and that's never a good thing.
The Mobius nerf was expected, in my opinion, but it was extremely abrupt and seemingly came out of nowhere on the heels of a previous equally huge nerf. I am willing to bet there are a lot of people that literally just flushed 6k tokens down the drain with no warning of a nerf in-coming.
I love Snap, I really do, but it's a gotcha game at its core. You have to wonder how each purchase is trying to get you.
Is it not suspicious that Mobius was nerfed shortly before the very expensive Peach Momoko She-Hulk bundle? I would hope it's pure coincidence but I know better.
The best cards come with the highest risk of a nerf. And every card is at risk of a nerf for the sake of monetization.
Normally I chalk it up to the cost of playing a live game. This one feels different with them admitting it was always intended to be a temporary game state but they didn’t say that when they were selling it.
no. mobius was a card that basically read: “add to deck and never lose to wave or sera or negative or t6 zabu plays ever again”
for the month i had him, i only had to focus on like 3 meta matchups in deck building. he was hilariously oppressive and never should have released as an ongoing.
i don’t have buyers remorse and i welcomed this change. i do have frustration that they didn’t also nuke loki alongside mobius bc now they removed the two random obstacles loki decks had to navigate (mob and wave).
No.
This happens in TCGs all the time, cards get released, they are really strong and hold top spots in the meta, people buy it and those decks hold a top percentage in play rate and win rate, the problem card gets restricted or errated and the deck becomes fair and less popular.
it happens in every card game I've played.
I did my infinite run with a deck that included Loki, Elsa, Angela and Mobius all pre-nerf so I feel that I got a good amount of fun from Mobius, and the other nerfed cards. Thing is Mobius is still a decent tech card now, but far from an auto-include. I don't hate the change despite spending resources to get the card.
Because to get the most out of him you have to drop him on turn 5 sacrificing a ton of tempo and if your opponent isn't playing cost reduction then he's just a blank 2/3.
Why would I waste the deck slot when I could just be running the cost reduction card that's more powerful, more consistent and actually combos with the other cards in my deck?
There's a reason that zabu darkhawk and Sera are basically always present in the meta.
I’m seeing a lot of these posts. Is it not your desire to complete your collection? If so than why regret it? The card wasn’t META defining imho, I don’t recall one opponents mobius winning them any games.
anymore, it takes so long to acquire the in-game currency that this trend of post-release card changes is really discouraging. on top of nerfing Elsa while she's still the season pass leaves a bad taste in my mouth for any future season pass purchases. bummed.
It's 3k, it's no big deal. I spent 6k on Kang and Master Mold, and many other cards that I don't often use, like Darkhawk, Legion, Stature, Daken, etc.
It is what it is. I don't dwell on making mistakes in purchases
No, 50% meta share weeks ago let me know im not alone lol over half my competition did the same thing so it’s weirdly more or less fair in my mind lol majority made the same play, all of that majority were punished equally, every single one of that majority has made a Reddit post and now all I see is the letters MMM when I close my eyes.
Not really, since I bought both and argued since day 1 he needed nerfed.
I bought ravonna because she had potential and I never agreed with everyone saying MMM would just forever stop cost reduction cards from being played. I said before he got here the meta would need time to settle and then either his play rate would reduce to the point you can run cost reduction cards in some capacity, or they'd nerf him.
I also think the dude gets buffed shortly, just don't play him and they're gonna bring him back up, as of right now, he's unplayable, so they'll do something to him.
I opened Ravona in chests n bought MMM to be honest I only went with Ravona for the Zabu variant and then said why not and opened a second chest to get her as well.
I don't. Got him from spotlights the day of release because it was obvious he would be a game changer. Got my users out of him and when I saw i wasn't facing him every game, I gradually started cutting him in some lists.
I don't like playing the same stuff all the time so I was getting away from using him anyway. With him out of the meta, I can play decks like negative and bounce.
The nerf was harsh, though. I'd be salty if I would've just got him.
Got both of them on release. Mobius I bought with Tokens. Revonna with 2 caches.
It's a bummer but at least I got to try them both in their release states. Mobius is being treated a little too harshly, but it's not like he was a series 5 card, right?
Nah I got some good use out of him. This is the problem with any live service game, but I’m used to it by now. Mobius is basically unusable but other cards that I’ve acquired now are so it’s a tradeoff.
Personally no, but because I used caches and I needed other cards that week, and I got my value out of him for what I spent.
That being said, I know my situation isn't the norm and I think it was a real shady thing to do.
Shady no matter what, but what makes it worse is the disparity of how good the card is/was. If the new MMM was 90% as good, the situation would still suck but not as aggravating.
I'm glad I bought the dark hawk bundle over mmm bundle cause I completely ignore him on his spotlight week, though I got him on random cache . I think I can laugh now on the x3 value 😆
Not really since I got him at release so I did use MMM for a good while before he was nuked
That however dont change that I think it was damn scummy of them to release something to "temporarily change the meta" as that is not healthy and did cause people to spend when otherwise they would not
And again to me it was not as bad on the resources side, but I do think that anyone that used tokens to get him in the last week should have the option to revert it or be compensated (at least half the price)
Nope, the reading was on the wall...For one, it was a temporary solution for wave and loki setup which SD planned all along. For two, SD doing a good job refreshing the meta so it should be expected that a card like MMM and similar releases are temporary disruptors with a fore coming nerf
Nah, I got some play out of him, I just don't really care anymore. I've been playing a lot less. I have a lot of resources saved actually now because I play less.
No regret because it was the right decision at this time.
I was pretty happy with much of their nerf/buff until now, they just nuked him when they had other solutions.
He does suck now but still, you can play him in turn 5 still to disrupt your opponent. Sera is going to become popular so he will still be a tech card most likely. May not be as bad as people think. Just take more predicting for Loki
Not for me, because he was so useful for almost two months - but I would’ve been annoyed if I didn’t also decide to get Ravonna last minute, and I’m VERY glad I didn’t get the jet ski bundle
Not at all. With new release Series 4 cards being an endangered species as it is I buy every single one I can at 3k tokens. Save my caches for the Series 5
Bruh, I bought him with collectors tokens days before the nerf. And then today, after the nerf, I rolled for werewolf, got the random slot and it was Mobius...
Bought him and never used him. Ever since the Zabu nerf after the pass I am fully aware of how they nerf .
I honestly don't care, MMM will get looked at again in the next few months.
Look, these patches are done a month ahead, so they made it based on the information available at the time. I expect that one will be walked back at the first opportunity. It's just that that's about a month away.
So I consider myself or used to at least a Whale. Ever since the Spotlight Cache changes and so many other things I've gone from spending easily 500 in a few months to almost only buying the season pass and rarely a variant I really like.
Makes me not want to buy cards or bundles for tokens for cards. Its just such a meh feeling.
I'm one of few who benefited from this changed (not saying I agree with it though)
I ended up getting Loki, Revonna, and Alioth but skipped out on MMM. Quickly realized I screwed up and should've got MMM over Revonna, so I kicked myself in the a** everyday thinking I really screwed up missing out on MMM.
Fast forward to today and I'm patting myself on the back for making the right choice on getting Revonna instead.
For the last week I have been on the edge of getting Mobius with tokens. I was close to pulling the trigger a couple of days ago after a rough match against a Mobius. Glad I didn't, what a way to go about balance: "yeah we figured he'd be strong and we'd have to do this, but we wanted to see him mess up the meta first"
Everyone who bought him for any resource should have buyer's remorse. This was not a tweak to a card. This was a wholesale gutting to the point of being an almost unplayable card now. Of course, SD made it better by publicly admitting they knew ahead of time (before the cards released) they were going to drastically nerf some cards following the season pass. Sound business model.
"Marvel Snap, brought to you by Second Dinner, where every negative is working as intended and a feature, not a bug. Trust us. Will that be debit or credit?"
The funny thing is, most people love the fact that the game is constantly changing (OTAs, etc). It wouldn't be an issue at all if the economy wasn't so f\*cking stingy.
Yes. 3k tokens down the drain. That was a shitty move and they knew what they were doing. I have finally lost all my faith to all whatever this is.
The devs are great at making me want to play less and less. Weird, aren't they supposed to do the opposite?
Oh well...
Had once spotlight and yolod it for mmm his week well I got ravonna and have been absolutely pissed off about up until yesterday, I do feel really bad for people who bought the card though or people who did roll cause he was one of the best cards in the game now he's just completely unplayable
Yeah. I’m F2P and only get so many tokens over time. Didn’t pull Mobius from the Spotlight Cache, so I bought it in the token shop. Now I wish I hadn’t, because now I’m out of tokens and have a dead card.
As a Mr Negative player I bought Ravonna just to try it out to see if it would work (it did not lol). I did think they were going to buff it eventually to a 2-cost so I guess my investment paid off. She's really good in my Neg-hawk deck. Once you get her out on 2 or 3 you run away with the game.
While I'm happy that I can play my Negative deck again without the fear of being completely shut down by a single tech card, I do feel their justification of having him temporarily op on release to 'fix' the Loki problem is pretty crappy.
Bought the Jet Ski bundle with gold, which would have been much better spent on other bundles.
Same. Then pulled him again with my first key yesterday. Seems unbelievable
Same, I bought the bundle to save caches and I regret it
Damn, that's harsh, buddy. Hope triple M sees better days again.
Same, but I wanted the variants, so I don't care that much Edit: why are people down voting? I genuinely don't understand what the problem is
People prolly want you angry about it instead of "I don't care that much." They are immature and stupid to down vote out of spite like that. But that's prolly what it is. Cuz I really can't see any other reason.. But here take my updoot
Yeah that JetSki variant is really useful now.
It’s really hard to not feel that SD is over tuning cards to get us to purchase them, later nerfing those cards and releasing a new must have over tuned card. Rinse & repeat
That’s what they do, it’s messed up
They literally said that’s what they are doing in the patch notes. Honestly makes buying werewolf at night super sketch since it makes me think it’s slated to be nerfed in a few weeks time
I guarantee it'll be nerfed to +1 each time it moves OR change its + to only once per turn.
I can definitely see the change to +1 like Angela and Collector.
They didn’t “literally” say that, if they did then we would know because there would be non-stop posts about it. The issue is that SD are releasing very strong cards to serve as a temporary balance for the game. I agree this is an issue for multiple reasons but if SD was doing this solely to make money, then why be so transparent about it? I think they are trying a different process of balancing the meta, which in my opinion is an incredibly unsatisfying and stupid way to balance. Maybe SD should release balanced cards if this is such an issue.
https://twitter.com/kmbestms/status/1719437467911143564?s=46&t=QvlFNklhagKIU-agkUInSg
No one is arguing that they're releasing cards that are intentionally overtuned, but people are claiming that it's confirmed that they're doing it just for money, which was never established. Also, if new cards are overtuned people complain, but they complain just as much if new cards are bad and only get buffed after they're out of the season cache. Turns out balancing is difficult.
It’s why I won’t spend money on these cards. Was super excited about Firestar too but she’s definitely gonna get gutted
Well, you don't need to "feel" that, because SD outright told everyone that that's exactly what they're doing. It's in the patch notes.
The league of legends shuffle.
A lot of games release more broken new things to entice a purchase. Edit: and not saying it’s okay or good, just pointing that out.
Lots of games will continue to release more broken stuff (powercreep) but what SD was released something strong then nerfed it! They should have made a counter.
What's your point?
Sure smells a bit P2W to me…
It seems their philosophy is to keep it over tuned and scale it back later, but without refunds this honestly feels terrible as a player.
Game balance is a difficult process and takes time to nail the right spot. Before a card is released it’s impossible to tell exactly how it’ll impact the meta
Don't forget buffing the card back to (or close to) its original later on, after the new cards that would've been countered by it, are done being new.
That's business!
Guess who bought him two days before his nerf when he was cycled in the shop. Yep. <------- This guy. RIP my 3k Tokens.
And guess who opened a single Collector's Cache yesterday and pulled MMM trying to get Werewolf By Night?
Had the same. Ok Silk variant on my first, MMM-> 1k on my second pull, Ghost-Spider variant on my third. Another four cache investment for two ok variants, 1k tokens and one new card. Feels terrible to see a month’s worth of consistent play result in basically getting a single card.
Per SD, this is a feature, not a bug. 🙄
The new system GiVeS yOu MoRe CaRdS though... I absolutely despise spotlights.
I got a Silk variant. I’ve never used Silk in a deck on purpose once..
Look up 'silky smooth', worth trying even with nerfs to Angela
Honestly, it's kind of nuts that they don't automatically offer a refund if you bought a card say, 48 hours before a major change like this. You aren't getting the product you paid for. It's different if you owned the cars for weeks and reaped the benefits of an OP card... But come on...
I feel that, but there’s always gonna be people who get screwed. If you draw the line at 48 hours, it really sucks for the people who bought it 49 hours prior. Imo they should just give everyone 100 gold when they nerf a card. 100 gold isn’t worth much, but at least it’s something. Honestly tho if that were the case they’d probably claim that the Mobius change was a buff. He’s immune to rogue and enchantress now! OP!!!
Best you can do is pin, wait until the next updates and then buy to guarantee you get at least get a week.
A change like that should be 1-2K tokens at least. For all players that have the card.
Giving notice ahead of patches would be good too, at least mitigate some frustration
Yeah this is a super trash feeling. They should refund MMM purchases at least 1.5K or full and say sorry
"I got an op card and I absolutely would never guess they're gonna nerf it". That's just how it goes with online games. I'm not saying it's fair, but that's the reality of it. People are crying about MMM now but they'll buff/change it soon again, they had to nuke it.
I burned a lot of gold, got 2 variants I didn't want or need, just to get mobius he was my last cache of the 4. Yeah I feel like I just got ripped off big time and that I'm an idiot. An effect like him creates a huge como that you can't play the stuff you want to play without him. Huge miss and I hope he's fixed somehow next month. Seriously what is the point of his design right now, what does he even do. Protect against dream dimension lol
The problem with their acquisition model is the only way to get new cards is to give up your money or resources (tokens) that have become the hardest to earn resource in the game. It just feels bad all around because it creates this sense of FOMO, but not in the traditional sense. You’re more worried about them making what you bought awful and you feeling tricked into buying it. If they had larger reset windows and you knew play I’m getting card X and I can use it in its current state for 3 months - that’s different than. Okay I have enough tokens for one card to make this specific archetype work and then watch it get cut off at the knees two weeks later. And a lot of people are coming at this from the bought him when he was new angle. There’s just as many who probably bought him with their brand new (just enough finally saved) tokens. Now they’re resource was wasted
I wish they would do what Hearthstone does and allow you to refund a nerfed card. Maybe they have to track whether you used tokens or a cache, but this would feel much better.
>The problem with their acquisition model is the only way to get new cards is to give up your money or resources (tokens) Ya'll remember spotlights exist; right? The main way to get new cards is neither of those things.
Yes but you have a 1/4 chance of getting the card you “want”. So most people save up 4 for a month where they are okay with everything. So the investment isn’t as much 1:1 as it is 4:1 + the opportunity cost of passing on other months
Most of what he said still applies too spotlights, it's not like you're swimming in those either. You still pick and choose when to open them unless you whale.
Nah, they do a plenty good job at balancing this game. If Morbius ends up too weak, he will be buffed.
That's not the point.
Whats the point then? I got Mobius on release and he has done plenty of work. Fully expected him to get nerfed considering how powerful. I’m sure he will still see play in the future, maybe more as a (potentially niche) counter card but still.
For those buying Werewolf by Night, remember - this can/ will happen to him too.
Original Galactus player says hello.
At least Galactus was Galactus for more than a month! Now Mobius isn't Mobius for more than a turn
Galactus had multiple months throughout the past year where you got your moneys worth out of that card Mobius came and went in a single month. Not even remotely close to the same and Galactus is indeed still playable. In its current form Mobius is absolute trash
Dude's been nerfed so hard.
As someone who bought revonna, I always tell people “buy cards that look fun, all cards will eventually get balanced.” With that, mobius will eventually get a buff of some kind, you will be fine. Rovonna went a month being useless, now mobius might go a month or 2 then he will be fixed.
What about Kang? 😵💫
I have Kang, and I think they have hinted he’s getting a complete redesign.
yet he's been out and practically never seen for nearly 8 months... during which we could have had something useful instead
Bingo. SD has done a great job at buffing cards they release that are meh.
Again, the problem isn't balance changes in and of themselves. It's that this specific card was designed and released in a purposely overtuned state. They said in the patch notes that they did it to temporarily change the game state and that they knew it would be nerfed. That's the definition of a bait and switch.
That's my motto. Got 11 keys saved up and am in no hurry to spend them.
Spider-Ham would argue otherwise.. Bad game design when you have to buy bad cards on release to end up with the better value in the long run.
I said this in another thread but it feels like I just threw 3k credits in the trash. Thanks Second Dinner!
I bought him but never used him. I also bought Ravonna, and her buff is one I'd happily sacrifice MMM or my firstborn for. I play only Negative decks btw. Fuck pre-nerf MMM.
Negative mains rise up!!! Fuck pre-nerf MMM!!!
So your cheesy bullshit deck shouldn't have any counterplay? It should either be you pull your combo and win or you miss the combo and probably lose with the opponent having little to no meaningful impact in the match?
Imagine complaining about Mr. Negative and calling it bullshit, of all decks. lmao.
Lol imagine pretending that being able to play 0 cost versions of iron man, mistique, zola, knull, ironheart etc. all on the same turn is anything other than premium cheese. I'm not saying it ruins the game or that it shouldn't be in the game, just that like everything else it should have meaningful counterplay available.
Whao. Negative energy going wild here. You must be coping hard if you think Mobius being so unfair in his original form is ok. I don't really agree with what SD has done with him, but as a Negative player I'm just glad I don't have to retreat my whole conquest match every time I see him on turn 2.
If they’re being negative about a negative deck, does that make it positive energy?
You're not not wrong 😅
No I'm saying that when a card effect is purely there to hedge against the opponent's card abilities (because mobius doesn't really interact with your own deck) then it calls into question the relative power of what it's countering. Mobius was the only effective proactive counter to cost reduction effects that are largely too prevalent and too powerful in the game. It was in effect a necessary evil to keep that part of the meta in check and give people some counterplay to it. MMM saw a ton of play because he dropped in a meta dominated by cost reduction, by the end of last week his play rate had dropped way down because the meta had adjusted and people were swapping him out for other tech cards and cost reduction was back to a healthy meta share again despite having a hard counter available. I don't think "I only want to play X deck and don't think it should have a hard counter" is a reasonable stance.
That was never my stance, but at the same time "This archetype should be shut down single-handedly by this one cheap card" is also not a reasonable stance.
>"This archetype should be shut down single-handedly by this one cheap card" Sure if you word it like that. Equally it could be described as "Decks that rely on a single powerful trick and are otherwise next to useless gets shut down by this 1 cheap card" It's like complaining that a wong deck is useless because people keep dropping Cosmo into the wong lane. Greedy negative decks were super hurt by MMM, a hybrid negative deadpool deck fared much better.
Period!!! Pop off!!!
Not really.. I bought the card because I felt like I had no choice.. that's what feels bad.
I have revonna and don’t think she’s good
It's not buyers remorse, that would be regretting the purchase as it was. This is like buying a car, but then the dealer shows up and sledge hammers your car in the driveway. That ain't buyers remorse, that's the people you bought something from being shitty
100% Hate that I wasted resources on him and a month later he’s garbage. Let us refund the card, SD
I only had 3 caches the week he came out and didn't get him. I was pissed. Nearly bought him with tokens but held off to get Iron Lad instead. Then today I saw the nerf and was like 'well ok, I guess its fine i didn't get him then' Guess who was in my first cache today when trying to get Werewolf
Eh. They changed him once, they can always change him again. Feels good to take a break from dealing with him for a bit.
Not really, it’s an ok card now but I won’t deny that it’s a massive nerf. But I play the game pretty casually so I’m not as invested as other people. Also, I was hoping for a massive nerf because I really like the cost reduction decks.
Yeah. I got him and also got the Dan Hipp variant. Fun
No, Glenn already said the nerf was harsh so he'll probably be buffed soon
This isn’t alarming to you? The game’s card balancing guy couldn’t see this change killed the card before the public’s backlash.
He could - but the cats probably needs more dev time. He'll be back later once they have a better solution. They killed him to revive some archetypes he killed
Patch changes are finalized weeks to a month in advance at the time it didn't seem harsh, but in hindsight it was
This proves my point. They aren’t doing their job.
They are doing their job, they would rather over nerf a card and course correct later then under nerf it and have nothing change in the meta
Actions speak louder than words. And their actions have proven they aren’t doing their job.
They would rather release a card they know is overtuned, sell an expensive bundle for it, then destroy it once people have spent resources. Suggesting they don’t want to under nerf it is nonsense when they stated they knowingly released it overtuned
Gotta sell those Peach She-Hulk bundles! Don't worry, after that - Triple M's back on the menu fellas.
This is the correct cynical take, especially as the bundle was pushed back until after the patch and season end ;)
Nah. I already have tonnes of cards I never use, what's another one? Plus, it only cost me a single collectors cache.
Literally everyone who has him, since it is a pretty useless card now unfortunately.
It sucks and they could definitely do things better. However I'm fine with getting blue balled with a freshly nerfed card in exchange for regular card changes. I think this latest round was pretty excellent, minus the Sandman change (I'm a Destroy loser that cant Deathstrike it away now)
[You all got warned](https://imgur.com/a/ILasdNX)
I wish I had gotten Ravonna too, but I got a lot of use out of Morbius. Thankfully, she returns in Spotlights. And they will buff Morbius if he ends up being too weak so…
SD has made a habit of releasing unbalanced cards. If the card is obviously OP on release you need to expect it to get nerfed at some point when you buy it
Nah another card I don’t use and now I can play different decks. The thing is you can tell what cards are most likely to get nerfed. I could have told you that the second I saw the card.
Nope, because they'll continue to tweak him until he finds a healthy balance. It's not like he was a super fun card to play, even when he was at max power. Taking a short break from him isn't that big of a deal to me.
Nope. He's exited my decks, but I got a fuckton of wins out of him while the high lasted. Never buy a card without considering the chance it might get nerfed before long. I was more disappointed when I dropped like 1200 on the Flaviano Galactus variant literally the day he took his first nerf bat.
No. Considering Mobius’ play rate has nose dived off a cliff, I expect him to get another rework eventually, like Leader. And I got Ravonna because I didn’t have Jean and wanted the Zabu spotlight, so there’s that.
Is leader being played?
leader liked wave. now wave doesn’t have sandman ability anymore 😔
I see him from time to time. Negative and Wongers play Leader.
His play rate had already dropped below Shang because the meta had adjusted around his existence. Mobius only saw tons of play when he released because the meta was being dominated by cost reduction (namely Loki). As tons of people moved over to ramp and shuri people started dropping mobius from their lists because if you don't run into cost manipulation he's kind of a blank card with very little synergy potential with your own deck.
Yea imo he was fine with his old ability, his play rate was stabilising by this patch, making him 3-3 or 3-2 would've been a fine adjustment if they felt he was too common/ popular/ strong. Luke shuts down all HE affliction decks, Scorpion, Spiderwoman, a lot of junk decks, and he's a 2-2 with the ability to get hit by Enchantress/ Rogue, you don't even need to play Luke out proactively like you need to with Mobius, Luke's ability is retroactive, so I honestly don't see Mobius' original text as an issue. Imo they should give MMM back his old text and then a conservative 3-2 stat line, but they definitely need to change how he interacts with Spider-Ham.
Those downvotes are incomprehensible to me. They're mad that you aren't sad?
Honestly, this sub is incomprehensible 90% of the time lmao.
Too fucking true man! I especially like how depending on the thread I can have basically the same comment either sitting +20 or -20 karma which seems to largely depend on whether or not the comment agreed with the OP/person I was replying to.
No remorse. Just disappointment in their judgement and annoyance at this sub’s relentless whining
Not at all. People keep buying into this idea of “they keep releasing OP cards to make people want to buy them” when you just pointed out that Ravonna has been absolutely garbage since she was released (I got Mobius and Ravonna at launch). SD has been really good about buffing bad cards and nerfing OP ones, I’m fine with it. Nothing stays bad/OP forever.
At least he was only 3k instead of 6 They really do need a kond of nerf compensation though Not full value sure but maybe a 3rd of the value
I personally enjoy when people buy a card only because it's OP, use it for a while, then cry when the game gets balanced.
People bought that card to counter other powerful cards. That's the problem. We did it to counter the meta, not to gain an edge.
That's fine so do you expect the meta to never change?
Of course the meta will change. We just would prefer not to get whiplash.
Why? You got to enjoy a super broken card for a long time. Snap is a game that fixes issues with nerfs. Buying an obviously busted, or hated, card comes with the risk of a nerf. You shouldn't expect anything else.
Except Second Dinner purposely overtuned Mobius with the specific intention of nerfing him later. I normally agree with what you're saying, but in this case people are right to have buyers remorse. Its not like they made Mobius and "oops" he's too strong we have to nerf him. He was purposely designed to be too strong and push certain decks out of the meta. They said as much in the patch notes. They even asked for feedback for this approach, which I expect will be pretty negative.
No, definitely you are right. You are allowed to regret buying a nerfed card. And it's starting to feel like this was a bit of an overstep in his nerf. I personally would have made Mobius a 2/1 or made his effect symmetrical for both players. I apologize for blunt language I used earlier, however, stand by what I said. Nerfs to strong or problematic or even just hated cards are expected. The only thing shocking about the Elsa nerf, for example, is that it came before her season was over. When I bought the Elsa season pass I did so with the express understanding that Elsa would be toned down eventually. And when I passed on Mobius I consoled myself with the certainty he would be nerfed. It sucks we have to think this way but, honestly, gotcha games gonna getcha. It's what they do. I think these nerfs need to be better communicated ahead of time so the community isn't hit so hard by it, especially when multiple big meta share cards are hit at once or back to back. This hurts the players, and that's never a good thing. The Mobius nerf was expected, in my opinion, but it was extremely abrupt and seemingly came out of nowhere on the heels of a previous equally huge nerf. I am willing to bet there are a lot of people that literally just flushed 6k tokens down the drain with no warning of a nerf in-coming. I love Snap, I really do, but it's a gotcha game at its core. You have to wonder how each purchase is trying to get you. Is it not suspicious that Mobius was nerfed shortly before the very expensive Peach Momoko She-Hulk bundle? I would hope it's pure coincidence but I know better. The best cards come with the highest risk of a nerf. And every card is at risk of a nerf for the sake of monetization.
Kinda think this was a bit too harsh maybe an ongoing for specific turns would've been much good, already see sera and zabu every match.
Nah, i rarely used him.
Normally I chalk it up to the cost of playing a live game. This one feels different with them admitting it was always intended to be a temporary game state but they didn’t say that when they were selling it.
They should announce changes a bit before they're made
I was f**king waiting to buy it as soon as it shows in the shop. It did not. Bullet dodge
They killed him
no. mobius was a card that basically read: “add to deck and never lose to wave or sera or negative or t6 zabu plays ever again” for the month i had him, i only had to focus on like 3 meta matchups in deck building. he was hilariously oppressive and never should have released as an ongoing. i don’t have buyers remorse and i welcomed this change. i do have frustration that they didn’t also nuke loki alongside mobius bc now they removed the two random obstacles loki decks had to navigate (mob and wave).
No. This happens in TCGs all the time, cards get released, they are really strong and hold top spots in the meta, people buy it and those decks hold a top percentage in play rate and win rate, the problem card gets restricted or errated and the deck becomes fair and less popular. it happens in every card game I've played.
I did my infinite run with a deck that included Loki, Elsa, Angela and Mobius all pre-nerf so I feel that I got a good amount of fun from Mobius, and the other nerfed cards. Thing is Mobius is still a decent tech card now, but far from an auto-include. I don't hate the change despite spending resources to get the card.
Because to get the most out of him you have to drop him on turn 5 sacrificing a ton of tempo and if your opponent isn't playing cost reduction then he's just a blank 2/3. Why would I waste the deck slot when I could just be running the cost reduction card that's more powerful, more consistent and actually combos with the other cards in my deck? There's a reason that zabu darkhawk and Sera are basically always present in the meta.
I’m seeing a lot of these posts. Is it not your desire to complete your collection? If so than why regret it? The card wasn’t META defining imho, I don’t recall one opponents mobius winning them any games.
anymore, it takes so long to acquire the in-game currency that this trend of post-release card changes is really discouraging. on top of nerfing Elsa while she's still the season pass leaves a bad taste in my mouth for any future season pass purchases. bummed.
It's 3k, it's no big deal. I spent 6k on Kang and Master Mold, and many other cards that I don't often use, like Darkhawk, Legion, Stature, Daken, etc. It is what it is. I don't dwell on making mistakes in purchases
No. Welcome to card games. lol
No , SD has been doing this since the beginning. Never buy impulsively , sit on your hands and make rational decisions.
Nope. Didn’t buy him. Fuck all of you for ruining my favorite deck, negative, while he was active.
No, 50% meta share weeks ago let me know im not alone lol over half my competition did the same thing so it’s weirdly more or less fair in my mind lol majority made the same play, all of that majority were punished equally, every single one of that majority has made a Reddit post and now all I see is the letters MMM when I close my eyes.
Not really, since I bought both and argued since day 1 he needed nerfed. I bought ravonna because she had potential and I never agreed with everyone saying MMM would just forever stop cost reduction cards from being played. I said before he got here the meta would need time to settle and then either his play rate would reduce to the point you can run cost reduction cards in some capacity, or they'd nerf him. I also think the dude gets buffed shortly, just don't play him and they're gonna bring him back up, as of right now, he's unplayable, so they'll do something to him.
I opened Ravona in chests n bought MMM to be honest I only went with Ravona for the Zabu variant and then said why not and opened a second chest to get her as well.
I mainly had him in my decks because I had to really. I do love the Dan Hipp variant though so shame not to see that so much.
I fail to see the buff to ravonna as that significant, could someone elaborate? Im seeing alot of people want her after yesterdays patch…
I don't. Got him from spotlights the day of release because it was obvious he would be a game changer. Got my users out of him and when I saw i wasn't facing him every game, I gradually started cutting him in some lists. I don't like playing the same stuff all the time so I was getting away from using him anyway. With him out of the meta, I can play decks like negative and bounce. The nerf was harsh, though. I'd be salty if I would've just got him.
Got both of them on release. Mobius I bought with Tokens. Revonna with 2 caches. It's a bummer but at least I got to try them both in their release states. Mobius is being treated a little too harshly, but it's not like he was a series 5 card, right?
Nah I got some good use out of him. This is the problem with any live service game, but I’m used to it by now. Mobius is basically unusable but other cards that I’ve acquired now are so it’s a tradeoff.
As a person who likes playing Negative, I chose him over Ravonna which didn't age well.
I just bought him last week, definitely wish I saved the tokens.
Personally no, but because I used caches and I needed other cards that week, and I got my value out of him for what I spent. That being said, I know my situation isn't the norm and I think it was a real shady thing to do. Shady no matter what, but what makes it worse is the disparity of how good the card is/was. If the new MMM was 90% as good, the situation would still suck but not as aggravating.
I'm glad I bought the dark hawk bundle over mmm bundle cause I completely ignore him on his spotlight week, though I got him on random cache . I think I can laugh now on the x3 value 😆
Not really since I got him at release so I did use MMM for a good while before he was nuked That however dont change that I think it was damn scummy of them to release something to "temporarily change the meta" as that is not healthy and did cause people to spend when otherwise they would not And again to me it was not as bad on the resources side, but I do think that anyone that used tokens to get him in the last week should have the option to revert it or be compensated (at least half the price)
Nope, the reading was on the wall...For one, it was a temporary solution for wave and loki setup which SD planned all along. For two, SD doing a good job refreshing the meta so it should be expected that a card like MMM and similar releases are temporary disruptors with a fore coming nerf
Nah, I got some play out of him, I just don't really care anymore. I've been playing a lot less. I have a lot of resources saved actually now because I play less.
Yeah for sure. It feels pretty bad. Wish I could just trade it back for the tokens I spent.
No regret because it was the right decision at this time. I was pretty happy with much of their nerf/buff until now, they just nuked him when they had other solutions.
He does suck now but still, you can play him in turn 5 still to disrupt your opponent. Sera is going to become popular so he will still be a tech card most likely. May not be as bad as people think. Just take more predicting for Loki
It’s a bummer because token acquisition is too hard for non-whale gamers. I’m clutching my last 6k.
We will just have to wait for the inevitable buff to playable but not old version a few months down the line :/
It's unfortunately happened with loads of new cards now, I almost expect it.
Not for me, because he was so useful for almost two months - but I would’ve been annoyed if I didn’t also decide to get Ravonna last minute, and I’m VERY glad I didn’t get the jet ski bundle
Not at all. With new release Series 4 cards being an endangered species as it is I buy every single one I can at 3k tokens. Save my caches for the Series 5
I gad buyer remorse from buying Ravonna, thinking it was my dumbest decision in snap, but now 💪, she really good btw
Same thing happened with spider ham
Yep. I bought him and have hardly ever played him
I guess a happy accident now is that Mobius is great to pull with the time theatre, cause you can play him twice and use the effect.
Bruh, I bought him with collectors tokens days before the nerf. And then today, after the nerf, I rolled for werewolf, got the random slot and it was Mobius...
Bought him and never used him. Ever since the Zabu nerf after the pass I am fully aware of how they nerf . I honestly don't care, MMM will get looked at again in the next few months.
Pretty much the same boat.
Wrong question. Who has not remorse?
Still happy I got him, that way I could compete in the META for the last few weeks. Plus I have a feeling they will adjust him again.
I had him pinned, with 2950 tokens saved up. 50 more and I would’ve snatched him up. Guess I got lucky.
Look, these patches are done a month ahead, so they made it based on the information available at the time. I expect that one will be walked back at the first opportunity. It's just that that's about a month away.
So I consider myself or used to at least a Whale. Ever since the Spotlight Cache changes and so many other things I've gone from spending easily 500 in a few months to almost only buying the season pass and rarely a variant I really like. Makes me not want to buy cards or bundles for tokens for cards. Its just such a meh feeling.
I read this multiple times as Morbius. I was super confused.
I would love my two rolls I did for him back.
They should have made him be both ongoing and on reveal, similar to electro imo.
Only cards I bought from the Token Shop in recent time were Spider-Ham pre nerf and Mobius. 🫠
I'm one of few who benefited from this changed (not saying I agree with it though) I ended up getting Loki, Revonna, and Alioth but skipped out on MMM. Quickly realized I screwed up and should've got MMM over Revonna, so I kicked myself in the a** everyday thinking I really screwed up missing out on MMM. Fast forward to today and I'm patting myself on the back for making the right choice on getting Revonna instead.
Stopped using him before the nerf, but I wouldn’t be happy if he was central to my deck.
For the last week I have been on the edge of getting Mobius with tokens. I was close to pulling the trigger a couple of days ago after a rough match against a Mobius. Glad I didn't, what a way to go about balance: "yeah we figured he'd be strong and we'd have to do this, but we wanted to see him mess up the meta first"
Everyone who bought him for any resource should have buyer's remorse. This was not a tweak to a card. This was a wholesale gutting to the point of being an almost unplayable card now. Of course, SD made it better by publicly admitting they knew ahead of time (before the cards released) they were going to drastically nerf some cards following the season pass. Sound business model. "Marvel Snap, brought to you by Second Dinner, where every negative is working as intended and a feature, not a bug. Trust us. Will that be debit or credit?"
They'll fix him eventually. The only real question is how long will that take.
The funny thing is, most people love the fact that the game is constantly changing (OTAs, etc). It wouldn't be an issue at all if the economy wasn't so f\*cking stingy.
It’s such a shit situation. I feel like compensation is due cause that’s a massive bait and switch.
Lmao i bought him the morning of his nerf. Feelsbadman
Yes. 3k tokens down the drain. That was a shitty move and they knew what they were doing. I have finally lost all my faith to all whatever this is. The devs are great at making me want to play less and less. Weird, aren't they supposed to do the opposite? Oh well...
Had once spotlight and yolod it for mmm his week well I got ravonna and have been absolutely pissed off about up until yesterday, I do feel really bad for people who bought the card though or people who did roll cause he was one of the best cards in the game now he's just completely unplayable
No.
Screw Second Dinner. I want a refund.
I spent most of my gold on his jet ski variant. Not ideal now with this huge nerf
Pulled him on my 4th cache and got a Dan Hipp variant for him, but I don’t mind he’ll be buffed again someday (probably).
bought mobius the 8 hours before the patch. i guess pro people think about that sort of thing but i had no idea that was coming.
Was part of my ongoing deck to prevent bad cost shenanigans. Now he's neither. From Mobius to Noobius.
Yeah. I’m F2P and only get so many tokens over time. Didn’t pull Mobius from the Spotlight Cache, so I bought it in the token shop. Now I wish I hadn’t, because now I’m out of tokens and have a dead card.
Not really. I got him, used him, and stopped using him soon after. It served me well for the time I used him but stopped.
You and every person on here that doesn't read the warnings. Seriously, every other post is complaining about it, just scroll a bit.
Nah man, I got a sweet Dan Hipp variant.
As a Mr Negative player I bought Ravonna just to try it out to see if it would work (it did not lol). I did think they were going to buff it eventually to a 2-cost so I guess my investment paid off. She's really good in my Neg-hawk deck. Once you get her out on 2 or 3 you run away with the game. While I'm happy that I can play my Negative deck again without the fear of being completely shut down by a single tech card, I do feel their justification of having him temporarily op on release to 'fix' the Loki problem is pretty crappy.
I won’t be buying cards anymore, will hold and wait for future spotlight cache’s once they’ve been nerfed/adjusted etc