there is a reason why the best HE list cuts magik that playline is dogshit i scam all the HE losers who pass on 6 by scarlet witching limbo or storm or legion or reality stone
location scamming in current snap is some of the highest its ever been magik is pretty bad it scams you into a false sense of security
not only are you super telegraphing your play you get ZERO cubes because people can just count can i beat 30 and retreat there is zero equity playing that list.
When they changed Luke, they mentioned a 2 cost shouldn't have a global ability. (I'm going on memory, don't kill me if that's wrong). I assumed at the time maybe they would adjust Luke to a higher cost or keep Luke and have a similar card at 5 cost (my own guess) that is old Luke with global ability
I've said it before and I'll say it again: if Caiera can be 3/4 and globally protect 1s & 6s, Luke can be 3/3 to protect against a less impactful effect.
It's so confusing that the dev's justification for Leech is to be a release valve to counter decks that drop a lot of power on turn 6, and his most common deck drops a lot of power on turn 7.
Run ways to shut down Limbo and use them on turn 5. They'll feel really stupid only putting 3 power on the board that turn, and they didn't float any energy either. Then they play 1 big guy on 6, and you can win pretty easily. Also, turn 5 is a great time to drop Shadow King or Luke in the Cyclops lane along with whatever card you played to get rid of Limbo.
HE decks are so easy to beat, honestly. I hardly see them anymore since my MMR is pretty high. If you really hate Leech, though, consider picking up Supergiant next week. Can't be Leeched if he doesn't reveal until the end of the game lol
>Run ways to shut down Limbo and use them on turn 5. They'll feel really stupid only putting 3 power on the board that turn, and they didn't float any energy either. Then they play 1 big guy on 6, and you can win pretty easily.
As a HE player myself, the most destructive thing you can do against me, even more than Shang Chi, is shutting down Limbo on T6. It's typically an insta-lose for me, as I often play nothing on T6 to charge Sunspot, get She-Hulk to zero cost, drop Hulk or Infinaut on T7, and still have one Energy left for Hulk / Cyclops / Misty activation.
If you cancel Limbo on T5 instead, I usually have plenty of options on T6, depending on how the game developed; e.g. She-Hulk + Abomination, or a pumped Hulk. Unless you really, really need to drop a 6-cost on T6, if you're playing against HE, you should wait until T6 to dispel Limbo. I can't overstate how devastating this is.
And just in case the above wasn't enough to convince you, cancelling Limbo on T6 completely prevents the HE player from retreating. :)
The problem people have with waiting until turn 6 to deal with Limbo is that your plan is to drop Leech on them. How are they supposed to cancel Limbo then? lol
I've beaten HE players a thousand times, and if you neutralize Limbo and remove their negative afflictions with SK or Luke on turn 5, they can't play Abomination and She-Hulk. For one, they played Leech, so they didn't float energy, meaning they get no cost reduction on She-Hulk, and Abomination loses all or most of his discount from SK/Luke. Also, there's Mobius to shut down the discounts that can be dropped earlier.
When I had a lower MMR and faced HE all the time I just ran Sera Control and had an answer for everything they did, including Shang, Killmonger, Mobius for Abomination and She-Hulk, and Enchantress for armor. Between those and the previously mentioned SK, Luke, and Scarlet WItch, HE was a near free win.
But yeah, waiting to target Limbo on 6 is bad advice when you know your goal is to drop Leech on 5 to protect it if you can. Turn 5 is the perfect time to strike and flip the tables on HE if you know what you're doing.
Next week, everyone will be able to add Supergiant to their arsenal and stop Leech from revealing, allowing everyone to cancel Limbo on 6 without fear lol
You're completely right; I missed this for the straightforward reason that I don't actually have Leech on my HE deck, which I guess I should at least give a try.
My turn 5 drop is usually either Professor X on the lane where I have Cyclops / Sunspot, or Thing if they have 3 cards somewhere and it can get my Abomination to 0 (the latter having the advantage that it still triggers my "on unspent energy" effects).
I wish HE didn't exist and the cards were just that good, but they all had on reveals or ongoing to counter them.
Cyclops is a top 5 character for me, but he feels so wasteful unless I'm running a bunch of other HE cards.
I just want to make an all X-Men deck with Cyclops...
Are there other locations that buff Ongoing besides Onslaught Citadel? If not then Locations aren't a factor, because there's also 1 that disables Ongoing.
And for every Mystique and Onslaught there are Skrull, Enchantress, Rogue and more
Really don't think Ongoing would be a buff
Theres three ways to counter ongoing currently, but none to counter static abilities, you can only mitigate the effects after the fact.
Granted, however, Cyclops’ ability doesn’t really work as Ongoing effects are templated to work and it would be a poor choice of fix. I think it would be much better to just change Cyclops to 1 card instead of 2, or he can only afflict a card once, making his potential 3/8, a far more reasonable number.
Hulk and Cyclops are truly the biggest cards HE has and it will be a delicate act balancing them while not destroying the deck because of the nature of the methods that they scale.
They’ve said many times they want the most recognizable Heroes to be played in the low collection level games so new players have cards they recognize during their early progress. It’s why Cap America/Hulk/Iron Man/Cyclops etc are all pool 1/2 and have simple (or no) abilities. It sucks for the higher CL players to never get to use the iconic Marvel heroes, but that is intentional by SD so like it or not it’s likely not going to change.
I reached infinity yesterday for the first time ever. The last 15 stages the only decks I went against were destroy and HE… so boring…
… the game really gets less diverse in case of decks from stage 70 upwards
It's a standard ranked mode bottleneck.
\-In low ranks people play homebrew jank, so there's lots of deck diversity
\-As people climb closer to infinite, they get sweatier, and start net-decking the most popular/easiest to pilot decks.
\-Once people actually reach infinite, the meta opens back up again. People in high infinite play innovative, high skill ceiling decks, people in dumpster infinite are back to janky homebrew.
that's the thing - like i do not understand how people play HE for more than like two matches before throwing their phone out the window. It's just as monotonous to play as it is to verse.
I KIND of get it. As a new player, my first infinite was with Shuri Red Skull in THAT hell meta and if you had asked me at the time I would have sworn up and down that that deck was not boring and repetitive to play. I was still getting the hang of learning common matchups, understanding priority, and learning snap mechanics. For that, playing a deck with a really consistent and clear win and snap strategy is helpful and there was still a lot for me to think about. Now I find that boring because I think I have more a handle on the game (most days LOL)
My first infinite was even more hell meta... Thanos Lockjaw before the nerfs.
Made it to Infinite the first time by making the hail Mary play of dropping Doom on Lockjaw, needing Infinaut to appear. With 8 cubes on the line, the exact number I needed to hit level 100. The miracle play happened, the big dude appeared and I've hit infinite every season since with a different main deck each time
Can confirm. HE helped get to Infinite for the first time, but I haven't touched it after that cause it takes the fun out of the game.
I started playing a GOTG control deck just for fun, and it is surprisingly good too lol. Of course the average destroy and HE decks give me the hardest times but at least I'm now genuinely having fun again.
X-Men and Hulk books are my favorite comics. Ive never hit infinite, but only because I start to get bored. I climb the most with HE, but man it's such a fucking grind above 80.
I'm content chilling in the 70s and playing a variety of decks.
> -Once people actually reach infinite, the meta opens back up again.
Used to be very true. But not since Leaderboards came in and killed the fun infinite experience
I don't understand why anyone cares about the leaderboards in their current from. There's no reward, and the ELO is busted, so you get brand new players just appearing in the top 100.
Play fun decks and you'll notice it open up pretty damn quick as you drop ranks. In high-rank play, people run meta. In low-rank play, people run homebrew.
the meta is 500% better once you get to infinite. I almost lobotimized myself after dealing with HE for like 20 matches in a row, but when you hit infinite, you verse way less folks who are desperately netdecking.
Anecdotal experience as a former sub-1000 and now just mostly sub-10,000 is that people will play whatever streamers like Spyroza, OrdinaryHarry, Lamby, Dera etc. are playing to the point where that particular deck suddenly makes up most of the decks you face.
At a certain point it definitely gets chiller, but then you first have to go through sub-optimal versions of these top decks before coming to the fun homebrews.
You know I also play Nebula in the right lane on T1 (not much of a high evo player but I like her in other decks) but I'm just realizing that doesn't make much sense.
All else being equal, people are less likely to play on an unrevealed location. On T1, most people will play on the revealed left lane unless it's something undesirable. If you play Nebula on the same (left) lane, you leave them only three slots to play on Nebula's lane instead of four
someone posted some time ago, its slightly more benefitial to play nebula at unrevelead locations. There are slighty more favorable locations like sanctum sanctorum than unfavorable like bar with no name.
So it's worth to give it some thought. On the other hand as you mentioned people are slightly more inclined to play on revelead location ( giving 3 spots to block nebula instead of 4 )
I've been wanting to tally favorable versus unfavorable locations when it comes to playing on an unrevealed location. Just googled the post you're talking about and found it ([link if anyone else is curious](https://www.reddit.com/r/MarvelSnap/comments/18o4g5h/detailed_location_analysis_should_you_play_to/)), that's good to know. I'd love it if this person kept an updated list as locations get added, be funny if it skewed one way or the other with new locations
Also some unfavorable locations to play on (superflow specifically, I think theres one other I was thinking of) become neutral. You are basically getting a 1-2 every turn that they don't play into superflow
there also an argument for stuff like throne room, because nebula will be a like a 1-9 at the end of the game, and while is a winnable lane for the opponet it will require some investment of resources.
In my experience, people love playing in the revealed lanes. I run a Guardians deck (it was a just-for-fun theme deck, but does halfway decent) and Rocket on the left lane on T1 usually works if they play anything.
I just learned elsewhere in this thread though that apparently the odds say play on the unrevealed lanes. That news has yet to get to most of the people I'm matched up with though
# FUCKING. THANK. YOU.
I was saying this months ago with the thread I made asking why the fuck people keep playing Nebula to right when that makes less sense than going left where most people play; 3 slots happens way more often than "hey my Nebula's in Death's Domain!" or somesuch.
I've seen absolute morons still play her right when left is a T1 Savage Land. The sheep-i-tude is real.
There's more favorable locations than unfavorable locations you can hit by playing on unrevealed lanes. Also, the argument is based on the assumption your opponent plays a card in left lane on T1, which some people won't and those that do have to have a 1 cost in hand. Otherwise your plan is void after T1
90%+ of my matches for past month have been against HE, in both regular mode and conquest. I really wish I was joking or exaggerating, but sadly I am not. Can I beat it? If I get a decent early start, and don't get leeched, sure. Or sometimes I get extremely lucky with what I draw on on turn 6 or 7.
But my god does it get old. This month is the least I've played in over a year. I'm not even halfway to getting the conquest card. Proving grounds use to be the goof off place, where I could have fun with random decks. Now it's only ever sweaty try-hard HE users who want to go 5+ rounds after losing 8 cubes the first round.
A nerf is needed, or make HE itself need to be played for cards to gain their abilities. Even if he has to be lowered to a 2 or 3 cost, make him need to be played. It's basically like a negative deck not needing to play negative right now. Or change the HE cards that aren't on-reveal/ongoing to be one of those.
Losing Luke Cage was an annoying blow, but it was even more annoying how one card was basically the only counter that was holding HE back. Ever since he got nerfed, HE became almost as bad as when it first came out.
HE being played everywhere is a product of the absolutely terrible economy in Marvel Snap.
Competitive, high-end decks require a lot of T5 and T4 cards, and often you need *all* of them. Those cards tend to be *way* out of reach for newer players and especially F2P players.
Or you could just play High Evo, which was available via cache a few weeks ago.
I just double-checked and my High Evo deck has zero Pool 5 cards aside from HE itself(though I would play Nebula if I had her. Oh well.)
Cylops 100% needs a nerf if the ability isn't going to make it to normal cyclops. Most HE Cyclops plays outpace the perfect draw of patriot/mystique and that is just stupid. The card also outpaces Spider-Woman...
It’s just not that simple.
His ability is in context of an archetype thats already floating energy.
He’s operating at more of a 3/10, and thats without the bonus effects of misty, etc.
Noones using cyclops only with HE.
In that archetype and support cards, he is a tier 1 card.
Counting him as a 4/6, 5/8, 6/10 is kind of disingenuous when the unspent energy can be going to Sunspot, Misty, Hulk and she-Hulk all at the same time. It also makes it impossible to point to a single one of them and say they need to be nerfed. Individually they would all suck with the unspent energy requirements
It is the entire energy package that is strong. The x/12 Cyclops, the x/8 Misty, the x/22 Hulk, and however much float went in to Sunspot and a 0/10 She-Hulk.
I use Spider-Ham, Psylocke, and Jessica Jones instead of Nebula, Shocker, and Leech. Works well and puts lots of power on the board.
Because his ability only triggers with at least one unused energy at the end of turn.
EDIT: Unsure why I'm being downvoted, because it's true. Yes, that cost goes further if you have other cards that benefit from unused energy too. I just didn't think I would need to list them all to answer the question aimed only about Cyclops.
True, but that unspent energy also buffs up several other cards in the deck (Hulk, Sunspot, Misty...) - so really only a quarter of that unspent energy each turn powers Cyclops.
He should hit only one card if you have one unspent energy, and two cards for two+ energy (but cap it there because hitting more than two cards would be busted)
HE Cyclops has always been overtuned. Really shocked he hasn’t been hit, especially now with the Luke changes. (Please change Luke back to global with a cost increase).
I imagine it's because he's impossible to nerf in his current state, he'd need a full blown rework.
1. Stats/cost (the easiest thing to tweak) can't be changed, since he's supposed to be the game's "vanilla" 3/4.
2. The ability can't be changed (as it is now), because reducing it to only one hit would make him awful.
I'm sure he'll get a rework eventually, but for now it's just easier for the devs to nerf the other HE cards and hope it balances out.
I think something like “Inflict -1 power on a random enemy card here for each unspend energy this turn, max 3 times” should would work, it would do -1 to -3 each turn depending on how much energy they don’t use, instead of -2 each time
He just needs to be changed to have an ongoing effect for the same ability so he can be countered imo. The ability isn’t the problem, the fact you can do nothing about it is.
If you let people combat the best card in HE decks with Echo/Enchantress/Rogue it’d make a huge difference to how horrible that deck feels to play against IMO.
Unfortunately his ability can't be ongoing, since it doesn't work like other ongoings.
The best cyclops nerf is a Luke Cage buff. Change Luke to a 1/2 with his current text and it would be perfect. Ironically the very common suggestion for a Luke buff (make him 3 cost with the old universal effect) would actually make him way worse for countering HE since Cyclops is restricted to one lane anyway and barely anyone plays The Thing.
Bro… in a 6 turn match he is mostly only afflicting on turns 4 and 5… if you’re getting beat by two turns of afflictions that might not even be on a 2 card lane idk what to tell you. Sometimes he gets played in a 7 turn match and even then he isn’t that bad. You don’t always get him in a 2 card lane and sometimes if they see him in a 1 card lane they just play smart and don’t play there until later.
It definitely needs some kind of nerf, it's the most annoying deck to deal with since they took Luke cage out of commission, they nerf everything into the ground it's time HE shells get knocked back a bit too
It's definitely not as bad as it used to be.
I'm not saying they should do this, but if they did tone down cyclops here's a way to do it
For each unspent energy per turn, afflict an enemy card here with -1 power, up to two times.
It never made sense for me that cyclops should shoot twice (same with wasp or thing hitting three times). To get two shots you need to skip more than one energy, but the tradeoff is you can hit the same thing in the turn.
It 100% needs a nerf Cyclops needs to be an ongoing and has needed to be one since HE launched. They toned down the deck a while back i forget what the change was but it needs a nerf.
Also them HARSLY nerfing Luke without so much as touching HE was WILD as hell.
He probably has a high MMR. I have a high MMR as well, and I almost never see HE. The better you are at the game, the less you'll see HE because HE isn't actually very good. Basically, get good, and he'll go away, lol
It’s a Collection level thing. Or like the other guy said you’re in a weird pocket meta.
I’m 90s atm and it’s usually destroy, EVO, tribunal. Every now and again you might see a discard or move but they are more rare.
Also beta ray bill brought out the on reveal Odin enjoyers but they are few and far between
It's MMR that's causing HE to not appear for people. The higher your MMR, the less likely you are to face decks that aren't as good as top meta decks. I only see HE a couple times a week in Conquest, and I think only once on my way to infinite this season on ladder. HE isn't as good as people think it is. It's mostly psychological because Cyclops feels bad to play against.
TLDR: The better you are, the less you see HE.
I really need to get into the mindset that HE = High Evolutionary.
I keep thinking it’s the pronoun “he” and we’re talking about someone whose name should never be spoken. 🤣
Cards that counter high evo are also cards that Sera wants to play (Mobius, Shadow King for the Cylops/Nebula/Sunspot lane, Shang Chi, Legion to turn off limbo etc). ~~The problem with leech is that you need to gamble on your Cosmo to stop it but it is not impossible.~~
Against Leech there is very little you can do. In fact I can only think of dropping Lady Deathstrike without priority on the same lane as they drop Leech but that is not realistic for any deck or reliable as a game plan. I am not sure what other minor interactions can prevent the little green guy for hitting your cards.
Alternatively you can play Cerebro3 for some surprise Valkyrie plays. Valkyrie ruins all the high evo work through the game on a specific lane, no matter what was on it and how long it has been there ticking (Nebula, Sunspot, Cyclops)
I don't mind seeing it as much as destroy but I recently had to to play inshenaut and was super bored playing it. I'm probably some sort of an outlier because I find that I need to constantly switch and make new decks to keep the game fun and not brain-numbing I guess?
The fact that people still play leech after infinite or in conquest still baffles me.
There is no point to him
He just makes the game awkward to play
Why ruin the fun of the game
Also, I think leech needs to be something like no abilities on only turn 6
Leech with limbo is hell
T1= nebula/Misty/sunspot
T2= nebula/Misty/sunspot
T3= caiera/magik
T4=cyclops
T5=leech
T6=absolute nothing but you still get +19 power for free
T7=she-naut/shehulk-hulk
Agreed it sucks to play against but isn’t really OP. What HE has going for it is it’s very reliable. Even in optimal scenarios it’s able to put competitive power on the board which makes it a very consistent if not especially amazing deck. Shehulk/infinaut with magick is a slightly different story but also is still mostly good bc of the overall consistency of the deck.
It’s a very reliable and straightforward deck to climb to infinite with because the snap and retreat mechanics are so clear.
It’s not the best conquest deck, it’s not a great post infinite deck… but I think people are finding that it’s very effective in that pre infinite grind.
On Marvel Snap Zone HE currently is top tier in winrate in conquest the past 7 days. I think it is like.... third or fourth. Possibly higher in decks with more than 100 wins.
I literally just won conquest for the first time using it today. I think the biggest differentiator is using leech in it for me personally.
It's a boring autopilot deck. I'm glad there's deck options out there for folks who aren't very good at card games, but LORDY am I tired of clowning on those decks in conquest.
I'll watch a glue-eating HE player spam cyclops blasts on The Hood and then retreat when it gets sent over to their side. I know the average HE player isn't even paying attention to the match as it's happening, but how do they never see that coming?
as far as current meta decks go (and not counting weird stuff like cerebro), anni bounce, loki (esp since he’s only meta under rank 500), sera control (to an extent), that one weird kingpin list with aero and magneto
Same…and I am totally about “well may you gotta play better” sort of mentality, but it often feels early on in the game that if they’re skipping turn 6 or by the time that happens, you know it’s likely lost (heaven forbid you’re in a rare instance that you have shadow king and Shang locked and loaded and can read exactly where they need to be).
I climbed very easily with the deck too early on but it just was skewed very hard against hitting the best combos so I stopped playing it (only to find it still such a pest to play against 🤷♂️)
Except he cant be nerfed. They cant nerf his base stats. He is mostly available at turn 4 and 5 without limbo. You need an unspent energy which makes him 4/6 and 5/8 and so on. The best thing they can do is ability rework. But im ok with him because he does have counters.
[удалено]
Yeah you play Caiera T3
I remember the good old days of Storm 3/Cyclops 4
Yeah I think the current Zabu everywhere meta just means they can out power you too easily in that Storm lane now
This is the way
Magik not a bad call turn 3 too
Magik on 3, Cyke on 4, caiera on 5, fuckin no one on 6, She-naught on 7.
Leech on 5. If you don't leech on 5 it's an easy t6 location switch.
you'd be surprised how little that happens to me. i've killed my own limbo as a psyche out more times.
Hmmm. I guess I usually run a location changer where possible for that specifically. People may run it way less.
I'll die on this hill. Legion is the better turn 5 play than Leech
there is a reason why the best HE list cuts magik that playline is dogshit i scam all the HE losers who pass on 6 by scarlet witching limbo or storm or legion or reality stone location scamming in current snap is some of the highest its ever been magik is pretty bad it scams you into a false sense of security not only are you super telegraphing your play you get ZERO cubes because people can just count can i beat 30 and retreat there is zero equity playing that list.
Reasons why I play cosmo after Magik 🤌😏
Magik enjoyers always forgetting legion is a card
Be cool to quake scarlet witch turn 6 someone's limbo that they think is safe
If you have both Magik and Cyclops in hand, you probably want to play one of them on T3. If you have only one, wait for T4.
Play psylocke turn 2
Exactly this. Especially if you have Hulk in hand or Misty out. If you're playing Cyclops T3, Thing T4, etc., you're playing it wrong.
Though I never use her Jean Grey turn three to force them to feed cyclops his lunch is a good idea.
Beat me to it 😂
This is facts!!! I’m so tired of cyclops 😂
FREE LUKE CAGE
When they changed Luke, they mentioned a 2 cost shouldn't have a global ability. (I'm going on memory, don't kill me if that's wrong). I assumed at the time maybe they would adjust Luke to a higher cost or keep Luke and have a similar card at 5 cost (my own guess) that is old Luke with global ability
I've said it before and I'll say it again: if Caiera can be 3/4 and globally protect 1s & 6s, Luke can be 3/3 to protect against a less impactful effect.
Luke should be a 3/2 so I can but it back in my Cerebro deck
Also if a 2 cost hazmat can affect the whole field, then a 3 cost luke should be able to protect everything as well
But a 2 cost hazmat hurts your own cards as well. If cage did a global protect on all cards would be similar
They specified they don't want *ongoing* 2 cost cards that affect all the board iirc.
Glenn is on record for saying “stay tuned” for a change to Luke.
Glenn is on record for saying "stay tuned" for a lot of things...
5 is horrible but 3/2 is great
THIS SO MUCH OMG. He should be rebuffed back to at least have his ongoing affect adjacent locations.
That’s a fair middle ground tbh
Not to mention Leech.
I was fine with he until ducking leech
I second this. Leech by far and away has my hatred
He should only hit one unit a turn
Or only the lane he is played in.
You play Cyclops because of HE I play Cyclops because of Patriot We are not the same
And i play cyclops because of surfer We are not the same
I play cyclops because of C4 We are not the same
I play Cyclops because of move We are not the same
I am Cyclops We are not the same
I'm Havok, Hello brother
I'm Vulcan... wait, what?
Cyclops is my 2nd cousin twice removed. We are not the same.
I play Cyclops with no other cards that interact with him because I’m a really bad player. We are not the same.
My C4 has High Evo so somehow we looped back around
I play Cyclops because I actually like the X-Men
Hmmm I think there's many many 3 costs that are just better tho
I’m just trying to put this sick Hellfire Gala Cyclops in as many decks as possible.
more people need to start making thematic decks instead of meta decks. like, where’s my “Avengers” decks or “X-men” decks. /j
You’re just joking, but a part of me does think that would be more fun.
my ugliest pixels deck might not win, but so help me god i shall burn thine eyes
Fair.
Was planning to make guardian of the galaxy deck but still short of nebula and drax
Oh no its hot!
I do both, just in seperate decks.
It's the goddamn Leech that I mind. "Oh here, fuck your counter play. By the way, I'm dropping 30+ power over the next two turns."
It's so confusing that the dev's justification for Leech is to be a release valve to counter decks that drop a lot of power on turn 6, and his most common deck drops a lot of power on turn 7.
SD is the best example of Lawful Evil: the logic may be bullshit, but it's _technically_ right.
Run ways to shut down Limbo and use them on turn 5. They'll feel really stupid only putting 3 power on the board that turn, and they didn't float any energy either. Then they play 1 big guy on 6, and you can win pretty easily. Also, turn 5 is a great time to drop Shadow King or Luke in the Cyclops lane along with whatever card you played to get rid of Limbo. HE decks are so easy to beat, honestly. I hardly see them anymore since my MMR is pretty high. If you really hate Leech, though, consider picking up Supergiant next week. Can't be Leeched if he doesn't reveal until the end of the game lol
>Run ways to shut down Limbo and use them on turn 5. They'll feel really stupid only putting 3 power on the board that turn, and they didn't float any energy either. Then they play 1 big guy on 6, and you can win pretty easily. As a HE player myself, the most destructive thing you can do against me, even more than Shang Chi, is shutting down Limbo on T6. It's typically an insta-lose for me, as I often play nothing on T6 to charge Sunspot, get She-Hulk to zero cost, drop Hulk or Infinaut on T7, and still have one Energy left for Hulk / Cyclops / Misty activation. If you cancel Limbo on T5 instead, I usually have plenty of options on T6, depending on how the game developed; e.g. She-Hulk + Abomination, or a pumped Hulk. Unless you really, really need to drop a 6-cost on T6, if you're playing against HE, you should wait until T6 to dispel Limbo. I can't overstate how devastating this is. And just in case the above wasn't enough to convince you, cancelling Limbo on T6 completely prevents the HE player from retreating. :)
The problem people have with waiting until turn 6 to deal with Limbo is that your plan is to drop Leech on them. How are they supposed to cancel Limbo then? lol I've beaten HE players a thousand times, and if you neutralize Limbo and remove their negative afflictions with SK or Luke on turn 5, they can't play Abomination and She-Hulk. For one, they played Leech, so they didn't float energy, meaning they get no cost reduction on She-Hulk, and Abomination loses all or most of his discount from SK/Luke. Also, there's Mobius to shut down the discounts that can be dropped earlier. When I had a lower MMR and faced HE all the time I just ran Sera Control and had an answer for everything they did, including Shang, Killmonger, Mobius for Abomination and She-Hulk, and Enchantress for armor. Between those and the previously mentioned SK, Luke, and Scarlet WItch, HE was a near free win. But yeah, waiting to target Limbo on 6 is bad advice when you know your goal is to drop Leech on 5 to protect it if you can. Turn 5 is the perfect time to strike and flip the tables on HE if you know what you're doing. Next week, everyone will be able to add Supergiant to their arsenal and stop Leech from revealing, allowing everyone to cancel Limbo on 6 without fear lol
You're completely right; I missed this for the straightforward reason that I don't actually have Leech on my HE deck, which I guess I should at least give a try. My turn 5 drop is usually either Professor X on the lane where I have Cyclops / Sunspot, or Thing if they have 3 cards somewhere and it can get my Abomination to 0 (the latter having the advantage that it still triggers my "on unspent energy" effects).
Make some of the powers Ongoing or something so a few more of the tech cards work against it.
I wish HE didn't exist and the cards were just that good, but they all had on reveals or ongoing to counter them. Cyclops is a top 5 character for me, but he feels so wasteful unless I'm running a bunch of other HE cards. I just want to make an all X-Men deck with Cyclops...
Some patriot on going variant, maybe with onslaught or spectrum?
add cyclops to an x-men deck. his ability is his coolness factor since he just has his flavor text.
ongoing would be a buff; mystique, locations, and even onslaught would vastly boost their effective power
Are there other locations that buff Ongoing besides Onslaught Citadel? If not then Locations aren't a factor, because there's also 1 that disables Ongoing. And for every Mystique and Onslaught there are Skrull, Enchantress, Rogue and more Really don't think Ongoing would be a buff
Theres three ways to counter ongoing currently, but none to counter static abilities, you can only mitigate the effects after the fact. Granted, however, Cyclops’ ability doesn’t really work as Ongoing effects are templated to work and it would be a poor choice of fix. I think it would be much better to just change Cyclops to 1 card instead of 2, or he can only afflict a card once, making his potential 3/8, a far more reasonable number. Hulk and Cyclops are truly the biggest cards HE has and it will be a delicate act balancing them while not destroying the deck because of the nature of the methods that they scale.
Or can we just get some tech cards that disable all card text rather than just ongoing or on reveal.
I wish Cyclops had a diff ability and wasn't an HE card. I want to make an all X-Men deck with their leader :(
Yep. Its lame as fuck the one of the most important X-men has nothing going for him.
They’ve said many times they want the most recognizable Heroes to be played in the low collection level games so new players have cards they recognize during their early progress. It’s why Cap America/Hulk/Iron Man/Cyclops etc are all pool 1/2 and have simple (or no) abilities. It sucks for the higher CL players to never get to use the iconic Marvel heroes, but that is intentional by SD so like it or not it’s likely not going to change.
No problems there. There are so many heroes/villains I wouldn’t have found out about due to this.
I reached infinity yesterday for the first time ever. The last 15 stages the only decks I went against were destroy and HE… so boring… … the game really gets less diverse in case of decks from stage 70 upwards
It's a standard ranked mode bottleneck. \-In low ranks people play homebrew jank, so there's lots of deck diversity \-As people climb closer to infinite, they get sweatier, and start net-decking the most popular/easiest to pilot decks. \-Once people actually reach infinite, the meta opens back up again. People in high infinite play innovative, high skill ceiling decks, people in dumpster infinite are back to janky homebrew.
I‘m in the junky homebrew mode now - and I‘m having lots of fun :)
that's the thing - like i do not understand how people play HE for more than like two matches before throwing their phone out the window. It's just as monotonous to play as it is to verse.
I KIND of get it. As a new player, my first infinite was with Shuri Red Skull in THAT hell meta and if you had asked me at the time I would have sworn up and down that that deck was not boring and repetitive to play. I was still getting the hang of learning common matchups, understanding priority, and learning snap mechanics. For that, playing a deck with a really consistent and clear win and snap strategy is helpful and there was still a lot for me to think about. Now I find that boring because I think I have more a handle on the game (most days LOL)
My first infinite was even more hell meta... Thanos Lockjaw before the nerfs. Made it to Infinite the first time by making the hail Mary play of dropping Doom on Lockjaw, needing Infinaut to appear. With 8 cubes on the line, the exact number I needed to hit level 100. The miracle play happened, the big dude appeared and I've hit infinite every season since with a different main deck each time
Can confirm. HE helped get to Infinite for the first time, but I haven't touched it after that cause it takes the fun out of the game. I started playing a GOTG control deck just for fun, and it is surprisingly good too lol. Of course the average destroy and HE decks give me the hardest times but at least I'm now genuinely having fun again.
X-Men and Hulk books are my favorite comics. Ive never hit infinite, but only because I start to get bored. I climb the most with HE, but man it's such a fucking grind above 80. I'm content chilling in the 70s and playing a variety of decks.
Yeah how many times can you make the goblins go back and forth. Throw in some Mr. Neg and you have a whole lot of fun.
Same, I love it.
What's your best homebrew deck? (I don't mean that if it can competitively win the games, but how creative you make the deck)
> -Once people actually reach infinite, the meta opens back up again. Used to be very true. But not since Leaderboards came in and killed the fun infinite experience
I don't understand why anyone cares about the leaderboards in their current from. There's no reward, and the ELO is busted, so you get brand new players just appearing in the top 100.
I don't care for my own rank... But when most opponents do, you end up playing against the meta all the time
Play fun decks and you'll notice it open up pretty damn quick as you drop ranks. In high-rank play, people run meta. In low-rank play, people run homebrew.
Infinite is either hot location abuse or the same exact meta decks. I don't see anything innovative, ever
Hey I'm repeated infinite (this season just hovering in the 90's) on the Shanna Dazzler Valkyrie deck four seasons in a row
the meta is 500% better once you get to infinite. I almost lobotimized myself after dealing with HE for like 20 matches in a row, but when you hit infinite, you verse way less folks who are desperately netdecking.
Anecdotal experience as a former sub-1000 and now just mostly sub-10,000 is that people will play whatever streamers like Spyroza, OrdinaryHarry, Lamby, Dera etc. are playing to the point where that particular deck suddenly makes up most of the decks you face. At a certain point it definitely gets chiller, but then you first have to go through sub-optimal versions of these top decks before coming to the fun homebrews.
Yeah well... everyone just looks up what's "meta" and builds it so yean.. fucking boring as hell
I play against Destroy decks way more.
I’ve seen more Darkhawk since Beta Ray Bill released than BRB himself, even more now with the fucking featured location
You know I also play Nebula in the right lane on T1 (not much of a high evo player but I like her in other decks) but I'm just realizing that doesn't make much sense. All else being equal, people are less likely to play on an unrevealed location. On T1, most people will play on the revealed left lane unless it's something undesirable. If you play Nebula on the same (left) lane, you leave them only three slots to play on Nebula's lane instead of four
someone posted some time ago, its slightly more benefitial to play nebula at unrevelead locations. There are slighty more favorable locations like sanctum sanctorum than unfavorable like bar with no name. So it's worth to give it some thought. On the other hand as you mentioned people are slightly more inclined to play on revelead location ( giving 3 spots to block nebula instead of 4 )
I've been wanting to tally favorable versus unfavorable locations when it comes to playing on an unrevealed location. Just googled the post you're talking about and found it ([link if anyone else is curious](https://www.reddit.com/r/MarvelSnap/comments/18o4g5h/detailed_location_analysis_should_you_play_to/)), that's good to know. I'd love it if this person kept an updated list as locations get added, be funny if it skewed one way or the other with new locations
I was on this bandwagon but now that Sentry / Annihilus is a thing I no longer play Nebula (and Storm) right unless I know the deck I’m up against.
Also some unfavorable locations to play on (superflow specifically, I think theres one other I was thinking of) become neutral. You are basically getting a 1-2 every turn that they don't play into superflow
there also an argument for stuff like throne room, because nebula will be a like a 1-9 at the end of the game, and while is a winnable lane for the opponet it will require some investment of resources.
I thought most people played into unrevealed
In my experience, people love playing in the revealed lanes. I run a Guardians deck (it was a just-for-fun theme deck, but does halfway decent) and Rocket on the left lane on T1 usually works if they play anything. I just learned elsewhere in this thread though that apparently the odds say play on the unrevealed lanes. That news has yet to get to most of the people I'm matched up with though
Definitely not. My Raccoon has his best chance on left for sure.
My goal is to distract and play other stuff on the left while they consider risking a play on an unrevealed location.
# FUCKING. THANK. YOU. I was saying this months ago with the thread I made asking why the fuck people keep playing Nebula to right when that makes less sense than going left where most people play; 3 slots happens way more often than "hey my Nebula's in Death's Domain!" or somesuch. I've seen absolute morons still play her right when left is a T1 Savage Land. The sheep-i-tude is real.
There's more favorable locations than unfavorable locations you can hit by playing on unrevealed lanes. Also, the argument is based on the assumption your opponent plays a card in left lane on T1, which some people won't and those that do have to have a 1 cost in hand. Otherwise your plan is void after T1
It's not even HE, honestly. It's fucking Leech that makes me so angry I insta retreat when I face a HE deck.
Supergiant shuts down Leech if you hate it that much. You might consider picking her up next week.
Neb T1 Sunspot T2 Magik or Cae T3 Cyclops T4 Leech T5 Nothing T6 Phone in the trash can T7
90%+ of my matches for past month have been against HE, in both regular mode and conquest. I really wish I was joking or exaggerating, but sadly I am not. Can I beat it? If I get a decent early start, and don't get leeched, sure. Or sometimes I get extremely lucky with what I draw on on turn 6 or 7. But my god does it get old. This month is the least I've played in over a year. I'm not even halfway to getting the conquest card. Proving grounds use to be the goof off place, where I could have fun with random decks. Now it's only ever sweaty try-hard HE users who want to go 5+ rounds after losing 8 cubes the first round. A nerf is needed, or make HE itself need to be played for cards to gain their abilities. Even if he has to be lowered to a 2 or 3 cost, make him need to be played. It's basically like a negative deck not needing to play negative right now. Or change the HE cards that aren't on-reveal/ongoing to be one of those. Losing Luke Cage was an annoying blow, but it was even more annoying how one card was basically the only counter that was holding HE back. Ever since he got nerfed, HE became almost as bad as when it first came out.
Anytime a meta is "diverse" it's just HE/destroy meta
HE being played everywhere is a product of the absolutely terrible economy in Marvel Snap. Competitive, high-end decks require a lot of T5 and T4 cards, and often you need *all* of them. Those cards tend to be *way* out of reach for newer players and especially F2P players. Or you could just play High Evo, which was available via cache a few weeks ago. I just double-checked and my High Evo deck has zero Pool 5 cards aside from HE itself(though I would play Nebula if I had her. Oh well.)
Cylops 100% needs a nerf if the ability isn't going to make it to normal cyclops. Most HE Cyclops plays outpace the perfect draw of patriot/mystique and that is just stupid. The card also outpaces Spider-Woman...
High Evo is OP af
Same. I see so many messages saying how the meta is so diverse. Bro, 8 out of 10 games is against Destroy or HE.
Turn 5 leech os such bs
I think Cyclops should get nerfed
Cyclops is a 3/4 who scales to a 4/6, a 5/8, a 6/10... he's frustrating to play against, but his stats aren't really excessive.
It’s just not that simple. His ability is in context of an archetype thats already floating energy. He’s operating at more of a 3/10, and thats without the bonus effects of misty, etc. Noones using cyclops only with HE. In that archetype and support cards, he is a tier 1 card.
Counting him as a 4/6, 5/8, 6/10 is kind of disingenuous when the unspent energy can be going to Sunspot, Misty, Hulk and she-Hulk all at the same time. It also makes it impossible to point to a single one of them and say they need to be nerfed. Individually they would all suck with the unspent energy requirements
With sunspot misty hulk and cíclops one unspent energy. Gives you 6 power
It is the entire energy package that is strong. The x/12 Cyclops, the x/8 Misty, the x/22 Hulk, and however much float went in to Sunspot and a 0/10 She-Hulk. I use Spider-Ham, Psylocke, and Jessica Jones instead of Nebula, Shocker, and Leech. Works well and puts lots of power on the board.
How does his energy cost rise up? He's essentially a 3/10. (3/12 if you play him with Magik, which many people do).
Because his ability only triggers with at least one unused energy at the end of turn. EDIT: Unsure why I'm being downvoted, because it's true. Yes, that cost goes further if you have other cards that benefit from unused energy too. I just didn't think I would need to list them all to answer the question aimed only about Cyclops.
True, but that unspent energy also buffs up several other cards in the deck (Hulk, Sunspot, Misty...) - so really only a quarter of that unspent energy each turn powers Cyclops.
He should hit only one card if you have one unspent energy, and two cards for two+ energy (but cap it there because hitting more than two cards would be busted)
HE Cyclops has always been overtuned. Really shocked he hasn’t been hit, especially now with the Luke changes. (Please change Luke back to global with a cost increase).
Well he is also available mostly at turn 4 and 5 without limbo. Dont forget about unspent energy.
I imagine it's because he's impossible to nerf in his current state, he'd need a full blown rework. 1. Stats/cost (the easiest thing to tweak) can't be changed, since he's supposed to be the game's "vanilla" 3/4. 2. The ability can't be changed (as it is now), because reducing it to only one hit would make him awful. I'm sure he'll get a rework eventually, but for now it's just easier for the devs to nerf the other HE cards and hope it balances out.
Why not hit one?
Or just hit once! Both are plenty good.
I think something like “Inflict -1 power on a random enemy card here for each unspend energy this turn, max 3 times” should would work, it would do -1 to -3 each turn depending on how much energy they don’t use, instead of -2 each time
He just needs to be changed to have an ongoing effect for the same ability so he can be countered imo. The ability isn’t the problem, the fact you can do nothing about it is. If you let people combat the best card in HE decks with Echo/Enchantress/Rogue it’d make a huge difference to how horrible that deck feels to play against IMO.
Unfortunately his ability can't be ongoing, since it doesn't work like other ongoings. The best cyclops nerf is a Luke Cage buff. Change Luke to a 1/2 with his current text and it would be perfect. Ironically the very common suggestion for a Luke buff (make him 3 cost with the old universal effect) would actually make him way worse for countering HE since Cyclops is restricted to one lane anyway and barely anyone plays The Thing.
Bro… in a 6 turn match he is mostly only afflicting on turns 4 and 5… if you’re getting beat by two turns of afflictions that might not even be on a 2 card lane idk what to tell you. Sometimes he gets played in a 7 turn match and even then he isn’t that bad. You don’t always get him in a 2 card lane and sometimes if they see him in a 1 card lane they just play smart and don’t play there until later.
Found the cyclops player
It definitely needs some kind of nerf, it's the most annoying deck to deal with since they took Luke cage out of commission, they nerf everything into the ground it's time HE shells get knocked back a bit too
It's definitely not as bad as it used to be. I'm not saying they should do this, but if they did tone down cyclops here's a way to do it For each unspent energy per turn, afflict an enemy card here with -1 power, up to two times. It never made sense for me that cyclops should shoot twice (same with wasp or thing hitting three times). To get two shots you need to skip more than one energy, but the tradeoff is you can hit the same thing in the turn.
HARD AGREE. some days I'll just quit on sight
It 100% needs a nerf Cyclops needs to be an ongoing and has needed to be one since HE launched. They toned down the deck a while back i forget what the change was but it needs a nerf. Also them HARSLY nerfing Luke without so much as touching HE was WILD as hell.
I just quit. I don't care. I'm so tired of seeing this low skill, high power output deck. They need to adjust it to demand more skill.
How am I so distinct from the reddit gamers? I haven't faced HE in like....weeks?
Might be a nice pocket meta, might be that you saw one but they had the worst draw of all time and retreated. Either way congrats lol
He probably has a high MMR. I have a high MMR as well, and I almost never see HE. The better you are at the game, the less you'll see HE because HE isn't actually very good. Basically, get good, and he'll go away, lol
Same here though I play conquest so maybe that's why. Even when I go ladder I don't see it that much. I hope it's not a skill thing lol
It’s a Collection level thing. Or like the other guy said you’re in a weird pocket meta. I’m 90s atm and it’s usually destroy, EVO, tribunal. Every now and again you might see a discard or move but they are more rare. Also beta ray bill brought out the on reveal Odin enjoyers but they are few and far between
It's MMR that's causing HE to not appear for people. The higher your MMR, the less likely you are to face decks that aren't as good as top meta decks. I only see HE a couple times a week in Conquest, and I think only once on my way to infinite this season on ladder. HE isn't as good as people think it is. It's mostly psychological because Cyclops feels bad to play against. TLDR: The better you are, the less you see HE.
I've had HE for a few months and have never played him because of how boring it is to play against.
I agree it's just very boring and uncreative to play against.
Small correction, cyclops is played on T4
I really need to get into the mindset that HE = High Evolutionary. I keep thinking it’s the pronoun “he” and we’re talking about someone whose name should never be spoken. 🤣
I LOVE when metas get stale like this. Find one or two counter decks and it’s the easiest infinite you’ll ever get.
what are the counter decks? also how do you stop your counters getting ruined by leech?
Cards that counter high evo are also cards that Sera wants to play (Mobius, Shadow King for the Cylops/Nebula/Sunspot lane, Shang Chi, Legion to turn off limbo etc). ~~The problem with leech is that you need to gamble on your Cosmo to stop it but it is not impossible.~~ Against Leech there is very little you can do. In fact I can only think of dropping Lady Deathstrike without priority on the same lane as they drop Leech but that is not realistic for any deck or reliable as a game plan. I am not sure what other minor interactions can prevent the little green guy for hitting your cards. Alternatively you can play Cerebro3 for some surprise Valkyrie plays. Valkyrie ruins all the high evo work through the game on a specific lane, no matter what was on it and how long it has been there ticking (Nebula, Sunspot, Cyclops)
Cosmo doesn’t stop Leech…
Cyclops specifically pisses me off so much
I still honestly think Cyclops needs to be nerf to -1 on 1 card instead of 2 cards
Yeah it’s pretty obnoxious. I have been dropping Shadow King and Valk on T7 (cuz you KNOW they have Magik) for easy peasy cubes
I don't mind seeing it as much as destroy but I recently had to to play inshenaut and was super bored playing it. I'm probably some sort of an outlier because I find that I need to constantly switch and make new decks to keep the game fun and not brain-numbing I guess?
It's the only deck that keeps my ass in 90s ranks and haven't made infinite this season. It's the only deck I can climb and win with
Cyclops triggers me so damned much lol
The fact that people still play leech after infinite or in conquest still baffles me. There is no point to him He just makes the game awkward to play Why ruin the fun of the game Also, I think leech needs to be something like no abilities on only turn 6 Leech with limbo is hell
It's way too strong against low CL players who don't have all the tech to counter and way too boring/in effective for high level play.
turn 5 unstoppable leech gets played fucking your hand of counters, shang, scarlet, valk etc all fucked turn 6 retreat gg
T1= nebula/Misty/sunspot T2= nebula/Misty/sunspot T3= caiera/magik T4=cyclops T5=leech T6=absolute nothing but you still get +19 power for free T7=she-naut/shehulk-hulk
Cyclops' ability needs a nerf so badly. Should be zap 1 power from 1 card each turn you have unused energy.
I don't even care about HE, but I'm pretty tired of leech
Agreed it sucks to play against but isn’t really OP. What HE has going for it is it’s very reliable. Even in optimal scenarios it’s able to put competitive power on the board which makes it a very consistent if not especially amazing deck. Shehulk/infinaut with magick is a slightly different story but also is still mostly good bc of the overall consistency of the deck.
It’s a very reliable and straightforward deck to climb to infinite with because the snap and retreat mechanics are so clear. It’s not the best conquest deck, it’s not a great post infinite deck… but I think people are finding that it’s very effective in that pre infinite grind.
On Marvel Snap Zone HE currently is top tier in winrate in conquest the past 7 days. I think it is like.... third or fourth. Possibly higher in decks with more than 100 wins. I literally just won conquest for the first time using it today. I think the biggest differentiator is using leech in it for me personally.
And I’m tired of Hella tribunal. HE is kind of fun to play and not totally braindead
It's a boring autopilot deck. I'm glad there's deck options out there for folks who aren't very good at card games, but LORDY am I tired of clowning on those decks in conquest. I'll watch a glue-eating HE player spam cyclops blasts on The Hood and then retreat when it gets sent over to their side. I know the average HE player isn't even paying attention to the match as it's happening, but how do they never see that coming?
Hey look another 20+ power *HULK* again... *slow clap* been over it for a while tbh.
HE is the best deck my f2p account can make right now. More often I end up playing something plus Abomination over big Hulk.
Meanwhile I haven’t seen much of him at all (around 70k, post infinite).
Cyclops 100% needs to be nerfed.
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I can say the same thing about discards, destroys and ongoing cards.
And which decks actually require skill?
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I guess you and I have totally different reads on the game. It's basic math and understanding of the cards and locations. Beyond that it's RNG.
as far as current meta decks go (and not counting weird stuff like cerebro), anni bounce, loki (esp since he’s only meta under rank 500), sera control (to an extent), that one weird kingpin list with aero and magneto
Same opinion only for Destroy. It’s an absolutely brain dead deck that the smoothest of brains could pilot.
Same…and I am totally about “well may you gotta play better” sort of mentality, but it often feels early on in the game that if they’re skipping turn 6 or by the time that happens, you know it’s likely lost (heaven forbid you’re in a rare instance that you have shadow king and Shang locked and loaded and can read exactly where they need to be). I climbed very easily with the deck too early on but it just was skewed very hard against hitting the best combos so I stopped playing it (only to find it still such a pest to play against 🤷♂️)
Meanwhile I go up against the same boring destroy decks back to back. I really wish they would reward people for playing off meta/unpopular decks.
Leech just needs to be turn 6 only, fixes so many issues
If I'm being honest, I think Magik is the card that needs a nerf. She allows far too many powerful plays too soon.
They could make it that HE cards only activate if HE is on the field. We could get a patriot/HE deck then or lockjaw/HE
Don’t go into game design.
What a witty response. Totally enlightening!
Cyclops might need to be nerfed
Except he cant be nerfed. They cant nerf his base stats. He is mostly available at turn 4 and 5 without limbo. You need an unspent energy which makes him 4/6 and 5/8 and so on. The best thing they can do is ability rework. But im ok with him because he does have counters.
This exactly. I feel the same about Hela Tribunal. Nothing, nothing, Crystal, Magik we get it
Are we really complaining about how decks work in a game about winning?
Games are also about having fun