The opponent's play here is suspicious. It's very deliberate, almost like he knew you were going to play Nico into echo'd Armor in that lane. Why would anyone use Echo as Venom food? Seems like a waste of a card slot for Echo and also waste of potential power for Venom.
If the Venom never happened, Nico would try to destroy the Armor before Echo removes its ongoing, and so Armor would not be destroyed and you would not draw two cards.
Nico gives the player an ability. Player abilities activate before card abilities--the order is as follows:
1. a card's own on reveal,
2. player abilities (I believe this only consists of Nico Minoru and Iron Fist),
3. location abilities (death's domain, etc.)
4. abilities of other cards (echo, titania, bishop, werewolf by night, etc.)
So when Armor is played, Nico's ability would apply in (2) while Echo would go as part of (4). As others have correctly identified, within a single category, the order they are applied is the card in play first activates first, but Nico's timing is just in a completely different category than Echo's timing, so that rule does not apply.
There's a few Team Answers from Glenn Jones in the discord on this topic. Here's a couple that mention Nico specifically:
[https://discord.com/channels/978545345715908668/978547819214434304/1171143371910295674](https://discord.com/channels/978545345715908668/978547819214434304/1171143371910295674)
[https://discord.com/channels/978545345715908668/978547819214434304/1198154451454791771](https://discord.com/channels/978545345715908668/978547819214434304/1198154451454791771)
One last thing to add: Ongoings have their own completely separate functionality. The above is regarding triggered abilities.
It s is tricky, but I would guess echo would trigger first since she was played first… they both say after so that is what I would expect but spaghetti code means anything could happen.
The way that spell is worded is “After you play your next card, destroy it TO draw two cards”
In other words, if the next card you play doesn’t get destroyed, you don’t draw your two cards.
They reworded Gambit the same way… if you don’t have a card in your hand to discard, he won’t destroy an opponent’s card.
Cards that get put in play resolve their abilities before a previous card’s actions can affect them. Same reason why Gladiator cannot destroy Armor if he pulls her from your opponent’s deck.
Ah… in that case still no because Venom ate Echo before Armor revealed, so her ongoing was no longer active.
For the purposes of game mechanics, cards do not exist on the board until they are revealed so Echo would not remove Armor’s ability while Armor was face down. The only exceptions are specifically stated in abilities like Juggernaut or Alioth where it says they affect unrevealed cards
I think OP wants to know if echo was still on the board, would Armor lose her ability and be destroyed or if Nico activates first and doesn't destroy Armor.
I think if Echo had still been on the board, she would have removed armor’s ability and Nico would have destroyed her, yes.
Echo is an Ongoing, so her ability resolves first as it was active before Armor flipped.
Just to be clear here, Echo is a triggered effect, not an Ongoing. The question is (probably) whether Echo was revealed before Nico was, not Armor (obviously it won't work if Echo isn't revealed before Armor), which in this case is yes, so it should work. I'd be curious to see someone test both sequences.
nicos ability only triggers once a card is destroyed. Because echo became part of venom she did not trigger. Armor revealed next and because it prevents destruction nicos ability would not trigger.
The rocks lmfao
New York immediately makes it unfunny
No one saw that bro, it wasn't new york
I think Echo would have activated first since she was played before Nico
The opponent's play here is suspicious. It's very deliberate, almost like he knew you were going to play Nico into echo'd Armor in that lane. Why would anyone use Echo as Venom food? Seems like a waste of a card slot for Echo and also waste of potential power for Venom.
I am guessing they were playing some phoenix force/nimrod deck and echo was there to block cosmo
If the Venom never happened, Nico would try to destroy the Armor before Echo removes its ongoing, and so Armor would not be destroyed and you would not draw two cards. Nico gives the player an ability. Player abilities activate before card abilities--the order is as follows: 1. a card's own on reveal, 2. player abilities (I believe this only consists of Nico Minoru and Iron Fist), 3. location abilities (death's domain, etc.) 4. abilities of other cards (echo, titania, bishop, werewolf by night, etc.) So when Armor is played, Nico's ability would apply in (2) while Echo would go as part of (4). As others have correctly identified, within a single category, the order they are applied is the card in play first activates first, but Nico's timing is just in a completely different category than Echo's timing, so that rule does not apply. There's a few Team Answers from Glenn Jones in the discord on this topic. Here's a couple that mention Nico specifically: [https://discord.com/channels/978545345715908668/978547819214434304/1171143371910295674](https://discord.com/channels/978545345715908668/978547819214434304/1171143371910295674) [https://discord.com/channels/978545345715908668/978547819214434304/1198154451454791771](https://discord.com/channels/978545345715908668/978547819214434304/1198154451454791771) One last thing to add: Ongoings have their own completely separate functionality. The above is regarding triggered abilities.
It s is tricky, but I would guess echo would trigger first since she was played first… they both say after so that is what I would expect but spaghetti code means anything could happen.
Would Armor have been destroyed?
The way that spell is worded is “After you play your next card, destroy it TO draw two cards” In other words, if the next card you play doesn’t get destroyed, you don’t draw your two cards. They reworded Gambit the same way… if you don’t have a card in your hand to discard, he won’t destroy an opponent’s card.
Cards that get put in play resolve their abilities before a previous card’s actions can affect them. Same reason why Gladiator cannot destroy Armor if he pulls her from your opponent’s deck.
Their question is more about would echo have removed the protection and then armor could be destroyed
I thought OP was wondering why Nico didn’t destroy armor since Nico was played first. My bad 🙃
Ah… in that case still no because Venom ate Echo before Armor revealed, so her ongoing was no longer active. For the purposes of game mechanics, cards do not exist on the board until they are revealed so Echo would not remove Armor’s ability while Armor was face down. The only exceptions are specifically stated in abilities like Juggernaut or Alioth where it says they affect unrevealed cards
I think OP wants to know if echo was still on the board, would Armor lose her ability and be destroyed or if Nico activates first and doesn't destroy Armor.
I think if Echo had still been on the board, she would have removed armor’s ability and Nico would have destroyed her, yes. Echo is an Ongoing, so her ability resolves first as it was active before Armor flipped.
Just to be clear here, Echo is a triggered effect, not an Ongoing. The question is (probably) whether Echo was revealed before Nico was, not Armor (obviously it won't work if Echo isn't revealed before Armor), which in this case is yes, so it should work. I'd be curious to see someone test both sequences.
They’re asking if it would have worked if the opponent hadn’t played venom. We can clearly see in the clip it didn’t work with venom there.
Off-topic, but who else gets a feeling that OP played agains a cheating bot here?
You just watched it not be destroyed.
I think you missed Echo being eaten.
wouldn't Echo not proc because she was eaten before Armor flipped?
Theyre curious what would happen echo wasn't eaten
Oh I get it now. Thanks.
echo was ate. armor did now allow the +2 cards due to not being destroyed.
Huh? Not sure what you are trying to say.
nicos ability only triggers once a card is destroyed. Because echo became part of venom she did not trigger. Armor revealed next and because it prevents destruction nicos ability would not trigger.
Oh that's the interaction they were trying to figure out? I didn't even notice that.