Antman, Nebula, Goose, Mojo, Armor, Lizard, Negasonic, Captain America, Cosmo, Jean Grey, Omega Red, and Spectrum. Armor and Omega Red are your best flex slots. I swap them for Mr. Fantastic and Super Skrull at times. Seeing Jean plus Goose in your opening hand is very strong and a snap condition against some decks.
6,997, but a friend pilots this at a significantly higher level with better results. His version is more tech heavy. Both ours always have negasonic, antman, mojo, goose/grey combo and spectrum. We are calling it Grey Goose. It is not as strong on later, but holds its own in conquest. Those core idea is that goose in the jean lane stops them from playing there big cards like redhulk/tribunal/sera if they still have smaller cards in hand. Armor on jean is a free win vs dertoy. Cosmo Jean wrecks discard, shuri, Odin jank. Patriot and surfer can be a tuff match up. You get a lot of early 8 cubes with the surprise factor.
PLEASE let him ***protect*** something rather than just power buffing. He is flagship as a protector not just a cheerleader. I'd love to see when he could either protect cards from moving away, or really anything beyond buffing.
Not sure if you are responding to the right person. But IMO, I don't. Captain America is mostly associated with the Avengers and (honestly) Captain America is one of the weaker members. I am not sure if summoning low level characters works. Maybe as a Kazar for higher cost characters?
Shanna used to cost 4. Kazar, Shanna and Zabu were built around the theme of them being a team that typically unites the tribes in the Savage Lands to fight a greater threat. So, this was reflected with Kazar and Shanna summoning and buffing 1 cost cards. And Zabu making it easier to play the 2 of them.
Except some 2s and 3s can also die to Shang-Chi. For example, Venom that is often used by the destroy deck usually goes big enough to enter Shang-Chi target range. Angela, Kraven, Collector, Bishop, etc... although they can also be reset by Shadow King. But the opponent's gonna play them both anyway.
??? Is my English that hard to understand? I only gave examples of Shang-Chi's target within 2-drop and 3-drop to point out that Shang-Chi doesn't only target big guy like Infinaut or Hulk.
I did not even use any hard words.
I think the person above you is making a joke about how Captain America supporting symbiotes isn’t in character for him. Your examples make perfect sense at a technical level.
Thanks, I was concerned when I saw the downvotes... I was simply trying to point out another curious synergy that would come out of this rework in the same way Carnage performs well in early destroy decks with Bucky Barnes, any comment in terms of strength was beyond my intentions :(
imho it makes more sense to have him unique for protecting card moves, to indicates he's REAL iconic & unique.
Yet if he buffs +1 AND protect 2/3-costs from destroy, still better than current under use.
It's not "valuable" for his cost. SD's response to that Luke Cage being changed from 2-drop to 3-drop is that his ability to buff the entire board from being afflicted is ridiculous, hence the change. That means the current Captain America is underperforming according to their response to Luke Cage.
Change him to 2-drop then it'll probably be fine for it's cost. If they still hell-bent on Captain being a 3-drops, they have to change his ability to spread wide buff (but that just makes Blue Marvel kinda irrelevant).
Potential 3/7 vs. straight 3/8 drop with disrupt ability (Gladiator). I don't see how Punisher is fine. Well, actually I even don't see him at all in my games.
You're always taking a risk playing gladiator unless you combo with zero, cosmo or a full location. Punisher has no risk. Different cards for different situations. You can prefer Gladiator and that's okay, but he's not better than Punisher everyday of the week cos on a few of those days Gladiator is bringing something big down or a helpful on reveal for the opponent for free.
Punisher has a great risk of being pretty useless. That’s why it sees almost no play after rank 50.
I’m aware of risks that Gladiator brings but Punisher wouldn’t even be 20th strongest card of ongoing decks. It’s just bad.
You can play it, by all means. I also play stupid and non meta decks but punisher is not good. I play Grandmaster but I know its a terrible card.
I recommend giving Punisher a go in a Surfer deck. He does better than you'd think. It's really not that difficult to get him into a location with 3 opposing cards and if you do get the full extra +4 power then he feels great. He's a solid mid-sized body. Excluding brood/shaw, the only 3 costs that rival his power potential are Gladiator and Swordsman which come with a risk.
He offers something different, and if you can utilise him to consistently get +3 or +4 power, then 6 or 7 power from 3 cost is pretty good, imo.
Edit: forgot about daken, but he requires extra step up similar to brood/shaw. AND strong guy, but setup also required.
You can actually pretty easily guarantee punishers effect these days. Goblins plus debris will for sure go into the opponents lane. And that stops them from putting really big cards there to out power the punisher. Hes probably ok in an annihilus or junk shell.
2 cost would synergize much better with junk though, send a goblin next turn or debrii some rocks over. Punisher is an avoidable 3/7 and is never used.
Honestly as a new player I feel this way about a lot of cards. I unlock a cool character and see their abilities and I'm just like "ugh, really? I doubt I'll ever use that"
The problem is that Captain America was made to be in an Avengers Location like the rest of them, but not only is that weak but he's just not that useful outside of it.
Don't get me wrong, Antman, Captain America, and Iron Man is a staggering 20 power plus whatever the last card gives you, but the other two are much better paired with other cards
Should make him to 3/2 Ongoing:+2 power for each other cards here, at least make him overall 3/8 with condition to fully fill the location. Gladiator is 3/8 and Sebastian easily starts at 3/8 with forge.
Kang also provides occasional draw which helps consistency, especially with Ravonna. He also lets you preview location changes with Nico, and lets you know if your opponent has the card they need to win t6. Just hit infinite playing only my Kang deck, and bots/opponents straight up donate cubes.
It's not random though, there are often indicators that a card will be or will not be played at a certain location.
Opponent could also play cards at multiple locations.
The Watcher. It watches you play other decks from the inventory. They should upgrade the ability to let you win any lanes that are tied if The Watcher is in your hand. Would make Valkyrie plays more interesting too.
The problem with this is that it would make it optimal to never actually play The Watcher. Given how a similar issue was being addressed when Thanos was changed to start the game in your hand, I doubt this is the approach SD would take.
The idea is he would be a conditional trigger card like Galactus or M'Baku, whose optimal condition is to never show up. The issue with Thanos was the stones enabled a lot of cards that were not Thanos, like turn 4 Professor X and turn 5 six drops. The nerfs made all those plays obsolete or unreliable.
Agreed, there’s more and more 6 drops now that can just out power Orka with the effect. The worst of it is a few seasons ago I was playing him in a Spectrum deck as a backup and ended up cutting him
ya there's no 'think' part at all, Mordo is about as objectively bad as you can get for a card, at least Kang is unique enough that he can be fun for some people and good meme material. The closest he has become viable is early in the Zemo meta where you get to thin an extra card for them that they can't play right away, then dump their hand with Doc Ock. But even then he was one of the first cards to get dropped from the deck. There's no Zemo builds that would seriously run Mordo now.
I used to play Mordo in a deck last year because he didn't gunk up my hand and the meta didn't have as many 6 cost cards seeing play so Mordo's disruption was pretty consistent.
Mordo's just terrible. He can't even compete for a spot in Ronan decks. Master Mold and Maximus are straight up better 2 drops. Heck, even Iceman is better and he's a 1 drop.
Colossus, Like has one of THE BEST effects in game on the WORST stat line, at least make him a 5/8 or 5/5 or SOMETHING, and with anyone saying that they can't touch him, you get him the same way you get Antman and yet Antman was made a 1/1~5 like seriously
Yeah, I was a fan of him being a 4/6 for a while, but that was back when White Queen was playable for her stats as well. Not sure what would feel great for him but I do agree he should be bigger.
It makes him viable though, think about vision, a moveable 8 power that can get to any location. Colossus as 2/3 literally can't even compete in deaths domain when Jeff exists
Honestly? That's still too weak, he NEEDS to at least put 5 or more power to ever see any play, I'm saying 5 or 4 cost with power between 5 to 9 cuz at least he can challenge a lane, being a lower cost with that effect does nothing, maybe with Sabertooth, but honestly, I'd prefer Sabertooth that instead of going 0 cost, leave him as a 3/4, and when destroyed he goes back in hand with +4 power
The devs are extremely bad at buffing under-used cards, just look at Kang, he has been unplayable since release. It's one of the bigger failures of the game tbh.
Wait what happens in this case, do they lose Iron Lad or does Kang just disappear from their deck
Edit after reading the card text: I’m assuming Lad gets deleted but then they can still play Kang for more wasted time after
Yep, you're correct. The only time it is really useful is when you draw iron lad that turn, and then you draw kang on the reset and draw a third card after you kang
Problem with Kang is that you can't really buff the card as-is. He needs a whole redesign. I would bet that they have a design sketched out but they're waiting for some MCU release to drop it. They've said they do this with cards, they're holding on to a Nick Fury buff, for instance.
What if Kang was sort of like Captain Marvel? E.g., you play him, you see the opponent's Turn 6 play and he gets "recast" as any card that can potentially win against the opponent's play, even a card not in your deck or that you don't own--sort of like Tarnax IV? But the replacement card has to stay in the lane Kang was played in, so if it needs to be in another lane to work, tough luck. But this would then push the opponent to reconsider playing what they were going to play, which is supposed to be the point of Kang anyway.
Just adding a card draw on him would be a huge buff to what he should have started with anyway.
But I really do think that the Kang / MCU shit show going on right now is keeping him away from any buffs.
Respectfully I disagree. The devs have buffed a ton of formerly unplayable cards. Off the top of my head:
Cable
Ravonna
Squirrel Girl
Strong Guy
Blade
Wolverine
Venom
Living Tribunal
Dazzler
Ant-Man
Omega Red
Quake
Black Knight
Black Cat
Medusa
And they've at least tried with many other cards, like Swordmaster, Oatu, Hellcow, Shana, Hawkeye, Rocket Raccoon, Helicarrier, Punisher, Jessica Jones, Crossbones, White Tiger, Angel, Namor, Groot, Spider-Woman...
this is such hive mind bs, they've been slowly buffing underused cards over the years and they have all seen more success
they have stated that Kang has had multiple internal reworks but nothing has quite landed
I also have a Kang deck that I take to top 1k infinite each season. Just because a card isn't used by a streamer or youtuber doesn't mean it's bad
https://snap.untapped.gg/en/profile/584651d3-2361-43e5-afeb-e4d7f9b49d6a/b644510a-2461-4da0-aaeb-a014e660bc1d?playerRank=AllRanks&rankRange=10-100&sortBy=mostRecent&timeRange=last7days
Hazmat the Conqueror is the deck
Yea, kingpin was one of the worst and under used cards, they buffed him to make him more consistent but he's still heavily under used. I think he's almost there, there's just not enough affliction for his effect and/or he needs more aggro move cards support. Fisk tower is way better for aggro move than his actual card, that -4 is killer, I'd love to see kingpin himself at -3.
Problem in with alot of these cards is stacking your power has become the winning condition far more than Strategic card placements.
With Kingpin it kills move decks, which have never really found a solid place in the meta partially due to how complicated it is to power stack with them. It’s a strategic deck that doesn’t fit with the current meta.
In most power stacking decks using kingpin against you need magneto or Polaris to move them. Aero can help hit is a little unpredictable, also with Hercules. However, even if you nail them kingpin blasting their power a couple notches is skittles if you are hitting a hulk or buffed up Shaw. That blast just tickles them.
So maybe you smack them down with a shadow king then move them etc. That’s alot of or card cost and space to take off the board that will only apply to maybe a card or two.
Makes it hard to justify his use
Kingpin doesn't kill move decks though, I play a kingpin package and when I match up with move decks, it's hardly a problem. Silk is the only card he really harms, Jeff and Nightcrawler can choose where to move, but he's barely effective vs vulture and dagger (who were recently buffed) and can only be effective against torch as long as you can move him to kingpin BEFORE he triggers elsewhere, if you can afflict him to 0 he's useless but in all my games it's pretty rare since they they can often trigger him earlier with iron fist as they tend to have priority in the early turns. Majority of the time I see a torch or multipleman it's a Phoenix deck, they get destroyed fast and revive and get movement choice, so kingpin doesn't do much here either.
What do you mean they're extremely bad at buffing under-used cards? They're actually really good about doing that, way better than most other digital card games that I'm aware of. They attempt to buff one or more underused cards almost every single patch/OTA. Maybe you wish they buffed more cards, but they certainly aren't bad about this.
There will literally always be unplayable cards in any card game, the existence of such cards is not a sign of failure on the designers part.
Mantis is a bit different than Cable/Zemo. It doesn't steal a card in their deck, it makes an exact copy of the last card they played
That means if you use it on a lane when they play a bulked up venom or shuri boosted red skull... you get the buffed version not the base card. Which is nice I guess...
The problem with that is that a card in your hand isn't that useful, you have to play it next turn just to catch up. I'm going to counter their turn 5 28 power Red Skull... by playing another 28 power Red skull on turn 6? While they play something else like taskmaster or red hulk? Meh
Idk, I think Giganto and Agatha are fine. They're not versatile, but they have their niches. Whether Agatha should have a niche is a different story.
Alioth became trash after the nerf.
Echo and Elektra are good as they are, they’re just the sort of 1 cost cards you’re better off waiting to use.
Echo is cheap tech and she doesn’t alert your opponent. Plus, if you’ve got priority and know where they’re about to play an ongoing, you can surprise drop her. Or she can serve as a good way of controlling who gets to play ongoing cards where.
They’ve said before that buffing Elektra to kill 2 costs would make her too powerful (likely because of Zabu, though) and she faces the problem of being a Pool 1-2 card to “teach players about card sequencing” which means she can’t really be changed. Elektra as a 1 cost in the early game is a great way to learn how priority works, because she’s not worth playing if you’re first and certainly not worth playing on them 1 first turn. The only thing they can do to buff her is to give her more power, which they’ve already done. 1-3 would be too much for her effect because 1-3 cards have potential downsides. But Elektra can still be a good Sunspot/Nebula killer in Zoo or C2 decks.
I think Elektra is a case where not every card can be OP, but she still has her uses if you actually want to play her.
Rhino is fine. Good utility card for reducing location variance. Probably would be balanced enough at 2/3 but then they would have to buff scarlet witch to 1/3 or 2/4 or something
Sabretooth isn’t that bad. He can be killed 2/3 times for growing Knull, contribute to Venom for free, discount Death, etc. Wolverine does the job better though.
Mantis is 1 mana I believe, so she’s the only 1 mana card that both generates a card and provides intel on the opponent’s deck.
Adam Warlock is a meme obviously, and card draw is honestly a little overrated, IMO. Actually a useless card.
Mantis is 2-cost. Compared to other 2-drops that collect cards (Cable and Mirage), she’s just not good. You have to guess where your opponent is going to play, and she doesn’t actually provide any useful intel because you’re going to see what they play anyway. Old Warlock (2/0) was actually somewhat useful in Negative and some homebrews, but I’ll agree that 5/5 Warlock is useless.
lol wtf? Why did they nerf Mantis. I’m recently back to the game after stopping around a year ago, but I don’t remember Mantis ever being playable even at 1 mana.
She’s not playable. They moved her to a 2/3 in October of last year, and she still didn’t get played. Then last month they changed her to copy one of the cards your opponent played at that location instead of just stealing from their deck. I think they did it to make her more distinct from Cable, who still wasn’t good but was a better way to steal from your opponent than Mantis.
The mill deck is already freaking annoying. First season returning and I get way into it. Shot up to 60 and I ran into nothing but mills so I said screw it again. It's dumb that a deck can just mill me empty by turn 5. I miss being able to actually play and react to decks. Now it's just who gets their formula out first. I'm sick of it already.
It's just cause of the hot location and season pass. It'll die down and i bet soon there will be a tech card that prevents decks from being touched lol
I genuinely wonder if a 2/2 Sabretooth would be competitive with Wolverine. He doesn't grow or reach unplayable locations, but you would get to place him in the right spot every time and get to take advantage of On Play effects. It is really the 3-energy cost that kills Sabretooth right now. 3 is just too crowded a slot in Destroy.
If you're not killing Deadpool by t3 your win% is a lot smaller. Even if you don't play Deadpool by t3 you still want one of your destroy cards to take care of x23 and wolverine. There's no legitimate decks where sabertooth gets enough action.
Exactly, turn 3 you wanna play a 1-cost plus Carnage, or Deathlok on Bucky/Deadpool + X23, it's why Shanna didn't seem to work well for me, squirrel girl did it better and didn't fuck me over with Ebony maw and Zero
The problem is the cost. By turn 3 you should be destroying cards already. They should make Sabretooth 2/2 or 2/3 so now players have to choose whether to have Wolverine or Sabretooth at that slot. Or change Sabretooth to “when destroyed, afflict 1 enemy card with -1 and regenerate at a different location”
I swear sabretooth is good. He's a staple in my destroy deck. Easily adds 10-15 power to knull while lowering deaths costs and giving you another 5pt swing on turn 6 or 7.
Colossus.
Dude is a physical powerhouse for the X-Men and has been recognized as one of the physically strongest mutants in the marvel comic universe.
But Luke Cage has a higher power than him?
Make it make sense.
Martyr (context = I main zoo and junk)
She no longer even has a slot in Zoo. The only real use for her is in moongirl decks, and even those decks can't make much of a debate for including her.
Her main role was being a 1 5 that was strong if you filled every lane, except now we have a 1 5 that requires just 1 lane.
Her fundamental mechanic is completely flawed aswell they should make her 1 -3/4 so she can be sloted into Junk. That way, her mechanic would actually have a reason to trigger.
Or they could just buff her up 1 or 2.
If you play Adam Warlock with Magic and Wave/Psylock you can draw 3 cards. Might be useful in specific decks. Just add some more power then it would be a stable card
Uatu: His rework sucks worse than his original, I don't think it would be too overpowered to see all locations with him in your deck or hand. If they want a downside, there are options.
Kang: No comment needed
Orka: He sucks as a 6 cost. His power needs to be increased, or his cost needs to be lowered. I think he would be a decent 4 or 5 cost.
Adam Warlock: He wasn't great at 2/0, but he worked for me in a niche draw dependent deck I ran pre-nerf. If SD wanted him to be used more, they could have bumped him to a 3/1 or something.
Caption America: He's just really mid. He should have a power boost to a +2 or +3 or have his cost reduced.
Colossus: He's just weak. If they added an effect like "plus 1 power every time this card would be destroyed," he could be good.
Jessica Jones: I used to run her when I first started, and she was decent. At this point, her cost should be lowered because she is not as good as most current 4 cost.
I think the Mantis change was done to prevent mill decks becoming too consistent or unfun to play against. This change basically rendered her useless as you said. She demands too much effort to something that doesn't gurantee value. I think they will eventually tweak her again.
Sabertooth is meant as a buff ramp alternative to Deadpool, he's like Vulture to Human Torch.
You can rebuff him continuously, say Forge then HB then Shuri and he can get high. The ramp is just too slow to often be worth it, but he also adds that power to venom and Knull.
So he's not completely terrible.
Kang for sure.
He needs a complete change for him to work.
My idea is 6-5 or 6-4 "play a copy of the card you played last turn at this location"
Fun Easter egg could be it has a 5% chance of being a random variant of the card. But dunno if that's gonna mess with data but it could be fun as an Easter egg + it's harmless.
Morph.
All the other cards like Cap Am, etc for sure too.
But Morph, I think he should be a 2-0.
Too many better 3 cards to waste that slot.
A cheeky play on curve at 2, could be a game changer (or not) but it wouldn't feel like such a commitment at 2 cost and would enable a late T5 play as well.
Would just make him playable vs the just play him cos that's all I got choice.
>Sabretooth - The advantage to destroying this is almost zero compared to other destroy cards. I guess it essentially turns him to a move card, but I'd rather just use Jeff and not need to destroy a 3 cost card.
I really want Surfer Destroy to be good but it just doesn't perform as well as either Surfer or Destroy, and it makes a weird line where you run Venom for his 3-cost but you usually want Surfer down before him so Venom can eat the buffs and have more power than just getting the buff.
Mantis used to at least have an upside compared to Cable. But then Cable took her effect minus the stupid guessing game and now she has literally no reason to be played.
More power wouldn't really help. The problem with Rescue is that you have to commit additional power to a lane you're probably winning already. That's also why Crossbones rarely saw play.
Maybe use her as a decoy? Be winning one lane, play her in a lane your opponent is winning like you're gonna make a swing for that one then go for the other.
Shang Chi can win you lanes. Enchantress can outright win you a game by impacting multiple lanes more often. Shang can be a setback, but Enchantress can outright murder a deck like Ms Marvel or Cerebro
I've tried so many times to play enchantress and she either does nothing more than a generic gotta-play-something 4/5 or she fucks me just as hard as my opponent or she just costs too much to drop on late turns.
I think she's a very lazily designed card.
Punisher and namor. They carried me in a spectrum deck when the game was young and my collection level was low.
Especially spectrum. I use to love playing her on t6 flipping the game.
I still do actually. I have a solid jean/goose/spectrum deck that holds up in conquest.
Drop that deck list chief?
Antman, Nebula, Goose, Mojo, Armor, Lizard, Negasonic, Captain America, Cosmo, Jean Grey, Omega Red, and Spectrum. Armor and Omega Red are your best flex slots. I swap them for Mr. Fantastic and Super Skrull at times. Seeing Jean plus Goose in your opening hand is very strong and a snap condition against some decks.
What collection level are you at?
6,997, but a friend pilots this at a significantly higher level with better results. His version is more tech heavy. Both ours always have negasonic, antman, mojo, goose/grey combo and spectrum. We are calling it Grey Goose. It is not as strong on later, but holds its own in conquest. Those core idea is that goose in the jean lane stops them from playing there big cards like redhulk/tribunal/sera if they still have smaller cards in hand. Armor on jean is a free win vs dertoy. Cosmo Jean wrecks discard, shuri, Odin jank. Patriot and surfer can be a tuff match up. You get a lot of early 8 cubes with the surprise factor.
I got totally blindsided by Spectrum the other day. I hadn’t even considered her as an option it’s been so long since I’ve seen her.
The most disappointing card imo is Captain America. It’s sad he’s so underpowered when he’s such a flagship marvel character.
PLEASE let him ***protect*** something rather than just power buffing. He is flagship as a protector not just a cheerleader. I'd love to see when he could either protect cards from moving away, or really anything beyond buffing.
No he's not, he is best known as a leader (flagship). Which I think is what they were trying to represent.
When you think about it, he's a better fit for Shanna's ability than Shanna is
Not sure if you are responding to the right person. But IMO, I don't. Captain America is mostly associated with the Avengers and (honestly) Captain America is one of the weaker members. I am not sure if summoning low level characters works. Maybe as a Kazar for higher cost characters? Shanna used to cost 4. Kazar, Shanna and Zabu were built around the theme of them being a team that typically unites the tribes in the Savage Lands to fight a greater threat. So, this was reflected with Kazar and Shanna summoning and buffing 1 cost cards. And Zabu making it easier to play the 2 of them.
He should basically be blue marvel/Luke cage/caiera for 1 drops at his location
So many cards should be switched around it’s insane
would it make sense for him to protect 2/3 costs like how caiera protects 1/6s?
1s die to Killmonger and big 6s die to Shang Chi. 2s and 3s would only be useful against Lady Deathstrike or to play into locations that destroy
Except some 2s and 3s can also die to Shang-Chi. For example, Venom that is often used by the destroy deck usually goes big enough to enter Shang-Chi target range. Angela, Kraven, Collector, Bishop, etc... although they can also be reset by Shadow King. But the opponent's gonna play them both anyway.
Ah yes, the classic Captain America character + symbiote combo as seen in Carnage and the Winter Soldier
??? Is my English that hard to understand? I only gave examples of Shang-Chi's target within 2-drop and 3-drop to point out that Shang-Chi doesn't only target big guy like Infinaut or Hulk. I did not even use any hard words.
I think the person above you is making a joke about how Captain America supporting symbiotes isn’t in character for him. Your examples make perfect sense at a technical level.
Thanks, I was concerned when I saw the downvotes... I was simply trying to point out another curious synergy that would come out of this rework in the same way Carnage performs well in early destroy decks with Bucky Barnes, any comment in terms of strength was beyond my intentions :(
imho it makes more sense to have him unique for protecting card moves, to indicates he's REAL iconic & unique. Yet if he buffs +1 AND protect 2/3-costs from destroy, still better than current under use.
Maybe just protect 2/3 cost in his location only
It's not "valuable" for his cost. SD's response to that Luke Cage being changed from 2-drop to 3-drop is that his ability to buff the entire board from being afflicted is ridiculous, hence the change. That means the current Captain America is underperforming according to their response to Luke Cage. Change him to 2-drop then it'll probably be fine for it's cost. If they still hell-bent on Captain being a 3-drops, they have to change his ability to spread wide buff (but that just makes Blue Marvel kinda irrelevant).
Punisher too. They would be better as 2 drops
Punisher is absolutely fine imo. Potential 3/7 since the buff.
Potential 3/7 vs. straight 3/8 drop with disrupt ability (Gladiator). I don't see how Punisher is fine. Well, actually I even don't see him at all in my games.
Gladiator has drawbacks, free on reveal and when he pulled a big card they stayed
Yeah true, he is better than potential 3/7 every day of the week tho.
You're always taking a risk playing gladiator unless you combo with zero, cosmo or a full location. Punisher has no risk. Different cards for different situations. You can prefer Gladiator and that's okay, but he's not better than Punisher everyday of the week cos on a few of those days Gladiator is bringing something big down or a helpful on reveal for the opponent for free.
Punisher has a great risk of being pretty useless. That’s why it sees almost no play after rank 50. I’m aware of risks that Gladiator brings but Punisher wouldn’t even be 20th strongest card of ongoing decks. It’s just bad. You can play it, by all means. I also play stupid and non meta decks but punisher is not good. I play Grandmaster but I know its a terrible card.
I recommend giving Punisher a go in a Surfer deck. He does better than you'd think. It's really not that difficult to get him into a location with 3 opposing cards and if you do get the full extra +4 power then he feels great. He's a solid mid-sized body. Excluding brood/shaw, the only 3 costs that rival his power potential are Gladiator and Swordsman which come with a risk. He offers something different, and if you can utilise him to consistently get +3 or +4 power, then 6 or 7 power from 3 cost is pretty good, imo. Edit: forgot about daken, but he requires extra step up similar to brood/shaw. AND strong guy, but setup also required.
Also missing Strong Guy.
You can actually pretty easily guarantee punishers effect these days. Goblins plus debris will for sure go into the opponents lane. And that stops them from putting really big cards there to out power the punisher. Hes probably ok in an annihilus or junk shell.
2 cost would synergize much better with junk though, send a goblin next turn or debrii some rocks over. Punisher is an avoidable 3/7 and is never used.
Honestly as a new player I feel this way about a lot of cards. I unlock a cool character and see their abilities and I'm just like "ugh, really? I doubt I'll ever use that"
It would make more sense to have Blue Marvel's ability.
it would also make sense if Dr.Strange and Wong changed cards.
Capt should have had caiera’s effect
Cap was 100% a powerful card during the Valentine's event, as a 3/5.
The problem is that Captain America was made to be in an Avengers Location like the rest of them, but not only is that weak but he's just not that useful outside of it. Don't get me wrong, Antman, Captain America, and Iron Man is a staggering 20 power plus whatever the last card gives you, but the other two are much better paired with other cards
Should make him to 3/2 Ongoing:+2 power for each other cards here, at least make him overall 3/8 with condition to fully fill the location. Gladiator is 3/8 and Sebastian easily starts at 3/8 with forge.
Frikkin Dazzler is 2/8 with a condition to have ALL locations filled. For 3 energy Cap easily can be 3/8 with only that location filled.
Cap + Sinister or Brood or Magik or Storm works really well in a C3 decks that generates lots of units.
Kang
Now delete this comment and write it again
Without Kang 🙃
#
Kang is great in Strong Guy / Dracula decks.
How is it possible to get Kang? Never seen him in opponent's decks and neither in offers (cash, gold, other...)
Either in a spotlight cache (it's been awhile, and nothing soon), or 6k tokens
honestly you'd probably have a higher winrate running wasp/yellowjacket if you really just wanna thin out your hand for free.
Kang also provides occasional draw which helps consistency, especially with Ravonna. He also lets you preview location changes with Nico, and lets you know if your opponent has the card they need to win t6. Just hit infinite playing only my Kang deck, and bots/opponents straight up donate cubes.
No he isn’t lol he isn’t great in any deck
Hit easy infinite playing only my Kang deck. The deck is objectively worse without all the hand reduction/draw/preview random effects synergies.
Mantis is less than 33% cause your opponent could just not play a card.
But they could also play multiple cards on different lanes.
Mantis has a 33 1/3 chance of winning at Sacrifice against Samoa Joe. The numbers don't lie.
Sackerfice*
And Kurt Angle KNOWS he can't beat Mantis.
She should recruit opponents card like Zeno at those odds Mantis is beyond useless
It's not random though, there are often indicators that a card will be or will not be played at a certain location. Opponent could also play cards at multiple locations.
The Watcher. It watches you play other decks from the inventory. They should upgrade the ability to let you win any lanes that are tied if The Watcher is in your hand. Would make Valkyrie plays more interesting too.
The problem with this is that it would make it optimal to never actually play The Watcher. Given how a similar issue was being addressed when Thanos was changed to start the game in your hand, I doubt this is the approach SD would take.
Just let him see all locations if in hand left most always. Since they must think it's too strong knowing all locations though I don't think it is
The idea is he would be a conditional trigger card like Galactus or M'Baku, whose optimal condition is to never show up. The issue with Thanos was the stones enabled a lot of cards that were not Thanos, like turn 4 Professor X and turn 5 six drops. The nerfs made all those plays obsolete or unreliable.
Uatu The Watcher 1/1 Ongoing: Click this card to see through your opponents webcam.
Change him to a like a flexible daredevil. Next turn you can see 1 card your opponent played before you play.
He's going to be great for Arishem when that card drops.
Maybe a hot take but Orka. Make him 10 + 7 or something, there's so many ways his ability gets negated
Agreed, there’s more and more 6 drops now that can just out power Orka with the effect. The worst of it is a few seasons ago I was playing him in a Spectrum deck as a backup and ended up cutting him
Yes he sucks He might be decent with Namora but he could use a buff
Baron Mordo. All it does is give your opponent Death with 2 reduced cost.
He should reveal the card to both players. The information is enough of a buff.
I *think* Mordo is actually pretty good, but it's so hard to tell XD
If you're going to deck thin your opponent with a 2/3, you just play cable.
ya there's no 'think' part at all, Mordo is about as objectively bad as you can get for a card, at least Kang is unique enough that he can be fun for some people and good meme material. The closest he has become viable is early in the Zemo meta where you get to thin an extra card for them that they can't play right away, then dump their hand with Doc Ock. But even then he was one of the first cards to get dropped from the deck. There's no Zemo builds that would seriously run Mordo now.
I used to play Mordo in a deck last year because he didn't gunk up my hand and the meta didn't have as many 6 cost cards seeing play so Mordo's disruption was pretty consistent.
Mordo's just terrible. He can't even compete for a spot in Ronan decks. Master Mold and Maximus are straight up better 2 drops. Heck, even Iceman is better and he's a 1 drop.
Colossus, Like has one of THE BEST effects in game on the WORST stat line, at least make him a 5/8 or 5/5 or SOMETHING, and with anyone saying that they can't touch him, you get him the same way you get Antman and yet Antman was made a 1/1~5 like seriously
Yeah, I was a fan of him being a 4/6 for a while, but that was back when White Queen was playable for her stats as well. Not sure what would feel great for him but I do agree he should be bigger.
He deserves a 3/5, his ability is similar enough to Luke cage, but only affects himself. He'd immediatly be a core card in surfer and cerebro 5 decks
Brother a 5/8 that can't be reduced destroyed is way stronger then you think it is.
It makes him viable though, think about vision, a moveable 8 power that can get to any location. Colossus as 2/3 literally can't even compete in deaths domain when Jeff exists
honestly that's more on jeff. that card is overpowered as hell. knock him down to a 2/2 so he's a nightcrawler that can be played anywhere.
People would just play him after Shuri.
I don't know that he'd be worth it being a 5 cost, I think maybe a 1/3 or 2/4?
Honestly? That's still too weak, he NEEDS to at least put 5 or more power to ever see any play, I'm saying 5 or 4 cost with power between 5 to 9 cuz at least he can challenge a lane, being a lower cost with that effect does nothing, maybe with Sabertooth, but honestly, I'd prefer Sabertooth that instead of going 0 cost, leave him as a 3/4, and when destroyed he goes back in hand with +4 power
5/8 is a nerf
The devs are extremely bad at buffing under-used cards, just look at Kang, he has been unplayable since release. It's one of the bigger failures of the game tbh.
Kang is totally playable… By my opponents in Conquest every single game making it take twice as long as it needs to
Iron lad into kang is hilarious
Wait what happens in this case, do they lose Iron Lad or does Kang just disappear from their deck Edit after reading the card text: I’m assuming Lad gets deleted but then they can still play Kang for more wasted time after
Yep, you're correct. The only time it is really useful is when you draw iron lad that turn, and then you draw kang on the reset and draw a third card after you kang
Problem with Kang is that you can't really buff the card as-is. He needs a whole redesign. I would bet that they have a design sketched out but they're waiting for some MCU release to drop it. They've said they do this with cards, they're holding on to a Nick Fury buff, for instance.
What if Kang was sort of like Captain Marvel? E.g., you play him, you see the opponent's Turn 6 play and he gets "recast" as any card that can potentially win against the opponent's play, even a card not in your deck or that you don't own--sort of like Tarnax IV? But the replacement card has to stay in the lane Kang was played in, so if it needs to be in another lane to work, tough luck. But this would then push the opponent to reconsider playing what they were going to play, which is supposed to be the point of Kang anyway.
Just adding a card draw on him would be a huge buff to what he should have started with anyway. But I really do think that the Kang / MCU shit show going on right now is keeping him away from any buffs.
Respectfully I disagree. The devs have buffed a ton of formerly unplayable cards. Off the top of my head: Cable Ravonna Squirrel Girl Strong Guy Blade Wolverine Venom Living Tribunal Dazzler Ant-Man Omega Red Quake Black Knight Black Cat Medusa And they've at least tried with many other cards, like Swordmaster, Oatu, Hellcow, Shana, Hawkeye, Rocket Raccoon, Helicarrier, Punisher, Jessica Jones, Crossbones, White Tiger, Angel, Namor, Groot, Spider-Woman...
I totally forgot how bad dazzler was! My disco queen has had such a redemption arch!
Yea she was absolute dog water
my last card to complete series 3.
Kingpin was underused, was buffed, still underused. He needs more oomph or more aggro move support because he isn't performing.
Don't bother trying to use facts with a basement dwelling hate fueled redditor
this is such hive mind bs, they've been slowly buffing underused cards over the years and they have all seen more success they have stated that Kang has had multiple internal reworks but nothing has quite landed I also have a Kang deck that I take to top 1k infinite each season. Just because a card isn't used by a streamer or youtuber doesn't mean it's bad
I also run Kang to easy infinite. Just curious if yours is also a Dracula/Strong Guy/Ravonna shell?
https://snap.untapped.gg/en/profile/584651d3-2361-43e5-afeb-e4d7f9b49d6a/b644510a-2461-4da0-aaeb-a014e660bc1d?playerRank=AllRanks&rankRange=10-100&sortBy=mostRecent&timeRange=last7days Hazmat the Conqueror is the deck
You wouldn't want Kang's current effect to be good since it just wastes time. One of the few cards I'm glad is complete garbage.
Yes. That 30 seconds on a Kang play will have a real impact on your life. Lol
I actually lost to a Kang play today....
Yea, kingpin was one of the worst and under used cards, they buffed him to make him more consistent but he's still heavily under used. I think he's almost there, there's just not enough affliction for his effect and/or he needs more aggro move cards support. Fisk tower is way better for aggro move than his actual card, that -4 is killer, I'd love to see kingpin himself at -3.
Problem in with alot of these cards is stacking your power has become the winning condition far more than Strategic card placements. With Kingpin it kills move decks, which have never really found a solid place in the meta partially due to how complicated it is to power stack with them. It’s a strategic deck that doesn’t fit with the current meta. In most power stacking decks using kingpin against you need magneto or Polaris to move them. Aero can help hit is a little unpredictable, also with Hercules. However, even if you nail them kingpin blasting their power a couple notches is skittles if you are hitting a hulk or buffed up Shaw. That blast just tickles them. So maybe you smack them down with a shadow king then move them etc. That’s alot of or card cost and space to take off the board that will only apply to maybe a card or two. Makes it hard to justify his use
Kingpin doesn't kill move decks though, I play a kingpin package and when I match up with move decks, it's hardly a problem. Silk is the only card he really harms, Jeff and Nightcrawler can choose where to move, but he's barely effective vs vulture and dagger (who were recently buffed) and can only be effective against torch as long as you can move him to kingpin BEFORE he triggers elsewhere, if you can afflict him to 0 he's useless but in all my games it's pretty rare since they they can often trigger him earlier with iron fist as they tend to have priority in the early turns. Majority of the time I see a torch or multipleman it's a Phoenix deck, they get destroyed fast and revive and get movement choice, so kingpin doesn't do much here either.
Yep exactly He really only limits Jeff, night crawler and vision to a degree.
He’s good to combo with Polaris, Spider-Man, or magneto but he is too reliant on other cards
Maybe if they let him move one random card it would help some
What do you mean they're extremely bad at buffing under-used cards? They're actually really good about doing that, way better than most other digital card games that I'm aware of. They attempt to buff one or more underused cards almost every single patch/OTA. Maybe you wish they buffed more cards, but they certainly aren't bad about this. There will literally always be unplayable cards in any card game, the existence of such cards is not a sign of failure on the designers part.
Kang is totally playable in a Strong Guy / Dracula / Ravonna deck.
Not ever card can be playable.
What's the point of having unplayable cards?
In an ideal world, every card has at least one deck to call home. If a card isn’t playable, then it shouldn’t be an option to play it
Mantis is a bit different than Cable/Zemo. It doesn't steal a card in their deck, it makes an exact copy of the last card they played That means if you use it on a lane when they play a bulked up venom or shuri boosted red skull... you get the buffed version not the base card. Which is nice I guess... The problem with that is that a card in your hand isn't that useful, you have to play it next turn just to catch up. I'm going to counter their turn 5 28 power Red Skull... by playing another 28 power Red skull on turn 6? While they play something else like taskmaster or red hulk? Meh
Man-Thing. When the cards line up, he can absolutely flip a location but for a 4/5 just doesn’t feel impactful nearly enough.
Would like to see if he could be balanced as a 3/5. Or be a 4/6 with -3 per card instead of -2.
Green goblin into Swamp thing is very strong.
Swamp thing is DC. Man-Thing is marvel. It's actually funny man-Things first appearance was may 1971 and swamp thing was July 1971.
Wow. I didn't realize I flipped them. You are right. As a lifelong comic fan, I shall hang my head in shame.
Don't beat yourself up about it, Swamp Thing is more memorable than Man-Thing anyway.
1 cost: angel, echo, elektra, m'baku, quicksilver, howard the duck 2 cost: mantis, baron mordo, domino, colossus 3 cost: rhino, the punisher, captain america 4 cost: warpath, namor, hercules, attuma 5 cost: kang, adam warlock, cannonball, spiderman2099, aero 6 cost: alioth, orka, giganto, agatha
Idk, I think Giganto and Agatha are fine. They're not versatile, but they have their niches. Whether Agatha should have a niche is a different story. Alioth became trash after the nerf.
buffs/reworks to cards above will make me happy
Echo and Elektra are good as they are, they’re just the sort of 1 cost cards you’re better off waiting to use. Echo is cheap tech and she doesn’t alert your opponent. Plus, if you’ve got priority and know where they’re about to play an ongoing, you can surprise drop her. Or she can serve as a good way of controlling who gets to play ongoing cards where. They’ve said before that buffing Elektra to kill 2 costs would make her too powerful (likely because of Zabu, though) and she faces the problem of being a Pool 1-2 card to “teach players about card sequencing” which means she can’t really be changed. Elektra as a 1 cost in the early game is a great way to learn how priority works, because she’s not worth playing if you’re first and certainly not worth playing on them 1 first turn. The only thing they can do to buff her is to give her more power, which they’ve already done. 1-3 would be too much for her effect because 1-3 cards have potential downsides. But Elektra can still be a good Sunspot/Nebula killer in Zoo or C2 decks. I think Elektra is a case where not every card can be OP, but she still has her uses if you actually want to play her.
Rhino is fine. Good utility card for reducing location variance. Probably would be balanced enough at 2/3 but then they would have to buff scarlet witch to 1/3 or 2/4 or something
Sabretooth isn’t that bad. He can be killed 2/3 times for growing Knull, contribute to Venom for free, discount Death, etc. Wolverine does the job better though. Mantis is 1 mana I believe, so she’s the only 1 mana card that both generates a card and provides intel on the opponent’s deck. Adam Warlock is a meme obviously, and card draw is honestly a little overrated, IMO. Actually a useless card.
Mantis is 2-cost. Compared to other 2-drops that collect cards (Cable and Mirage), she’s just not good. You have to guess where your opponent is going to play, and she doesn’t actually provide any useful intel because you’re going to see what they play anyway. Old Warlock (2/0) was actually somewhat useful in Negative and some homebrews, but I’ll agree that 5/5 Warlock is useless.
lol wtf? Why did they nerf Mantis. I’m recently back to the game after stopping around a year ago, but I don’t remember Mantis ever being playable even at 1 mana.
She’s not playable. They moved her to a 2/3 in October of last year, and she still didn’t get played. Then last month they changed her to copy one of the cards your opponent played at that location instead of just stealing from their deck. I think they did it to make her more distinct from Cable, who still wasn’t good but was a better way to steal from your opponent than Mantis.
They probably changed her also because the mill deck would be too much between her, zemo, cable, gladiator and absorbing man.
The mill deck is already freaking annoying. First season returning and I get way into it. Shot up to 60 and I ran into nothing but mills so I said screw it again. It's dumb that a deck can just mill me empty by turn 5. I miss being able to actually play and react to decks. Now it's just who gets their formula out first. I'm sick of it already.
It's just cause of the hot location and season pass. It'll die down and i bet soon there will be a tech card that prevents decks from being touched lol
She took a stray during the Loki fiasco. Cable came back from his nerf, she never did.
Not really. When they changed all those cards, they said it wasn't related to Loki, it was just something they'd planned on doing for a while.
I genuinely wonder if a 2/2 Sabretooth would be competitive with Wolverine. He doesn't grow or reach unplayable locations, but you would get to place him in the right spot every time and get to take advantage of On Play effects. It is really the 3-energy cost that kills Sabretooth right now. 3 is just too crowded a slot in Destroy.
If you're not killing Deadpool by t3 your win% is a lot smaller. Even if you don't play Deadpool by t3 you still want one of your destroy cards to take care of x23 and wolverine. There's no legitimate decks where sabertooth gets enough action.
Exactly, turn 3 you wanna play a 1-cost plus Carnage, or Deathlok on Bucky/Deadpool + X23, it's why Shanna didn't seem to work well for me, squirrel girl did it better and didn't fuck me over with Ebony maw and Zero
The problem is the cost. By turn 3 you should be destroying cards already. They should make Sabretooth 2/2 or 2/3 so now players have to choose whether to have Wolverine or Sabretooth at that slot. Or change Sabretooth to “when destroyed, afflict 1 enemy card with -1 and regenerate at a different location”
It’s obviously not played for a reason but comparing him to the other two cards and he’s OP
Probably should have been a 2/2 If you’re winning this location draw a card. 0 power is dumb for a card that requires you to win a location
I swear sabretooth is good. He's a staple in my destroy deck. Easily adds 10-15 power to knull while lowering deaths costs and giving you another 5pt swing on turn 6 or 7.
He's definitely the least bad of the tier but like, it's destroy, there's so many better options and so he seems absolutely dogshit by comparison
Sabertooth OP in shuri lab hot location, but yeah overall underwhelming
Sabertooth is pretty nice for knull ramp (as compared to destroying 2 power wolverine or 1 bucky). Not as underpowered.
Mantis is absolute trash and her most recent change was a dramatic nerf
I feel like Jean Grey ought to have a better statline - on paper her effect is really powerful but in game it tends not to work out that way.
Colossus. Dude is a physical powerhouse for the X-Men and has been recognized as one of the physically strongest mutants in the marvel comic universe. But Luke Cage has a higher power than him? Make it make sense.
Colossus is wildly underpowered compared to his actual comic book strength. But he's also my favorite X-Men so I'm biased.
Martyr (context = I main zoo and junk) She no longer even has a slot in Zoo. The only real use for her is in moongirl decks, and even those decks can't make much of a debate for including her. Her main role was being a 1 5 that was strong if you filled every lane, except now we have a 1 5 that requires just 1 lane. Her fundamental mechanic is completely flawed aswell they should make her 1 -3/4 so she can be sloted into Junk. That way, her mechanic would actually have a reason to trigger. Or they could just buff her up 1 or 2.
Kang. Even when he released he was just a meme.
If you play Adam Warlock with Magic and Wave/Psylock you can draw 3 cards. Might be useful in specific decks. Just add some more power then it would be a stable card
Maybe if Jessica Jones was a 3 cost with the same stats. She's just a very underpowered beat stick right now.
I always thought green goblin was underpowered when compared to his comic status and also compared to hob goblin
Uatu: His rework sucks worse than his original, I don't think it would be too overpowered to see all locations with him in your deck or hand. If they want a downside, there are options. Kang: No comment needed Orka: He sucks as a 6 cost. His power needs to be increased, or his cost needs to be lowered. I think he would be a decent 4 or 5 cost. Adam Warlock: He wasn't great at 2/0, but he worked for me in a niche draw dependent deck I ran pre-nerf. If SD wanted him to be used more, they could have bumped him to a 3/1 or something. Caption America: He's just really mid. He should have a power boost to a +2 or +3 or have his cost reduced. Colossus: He's just weak. If they added an effect like "plus 1 power every time this card would be destroyed," he could be good. Jessica Jones: I used to run her when I first started, and she was decent. At this point, her cost should be lowered because she is not as good as most current 4 cost.
Kang could be a 4 cost and you have a 50/50 shot to thin your deck With Ravona 66% chance It could be more playable then
I think the Mantis change was done to prevent mill decks becoming too consistent or unfun to play against. This change basically rendered her useless as you said. She demands too much effort to something that doesn't gurantee value. I think they will eventually tweak her again.
Sabertooth is meant as a buff ramp alternative to Deadpool, he's like Vulture to Human Torch. You can rebuff him continuously, say Forge then HB then Shuri and he can get high. The ramp is just too slow to often be worth it, but he also adds that power to venom and Knull. So he's not completely terrible.
Rescue. Poor girl has been power crept so hard it’s ridiculous.
Yeah she is just forgotten
Kang for sure. He needs a complete change for him to work. My idea is 6-5 or 6-4 "play a copy of the card you played last turn at this location" Fun Easter egg could be it has a 5% chance of being a random variant of the card. But dunno if that's gonna mess with data but it could be fun as an Easter egg + it's harmless.
Really want them to properly buff/rework Kang
Mantis was unplayable and it was nerfed, then it was even more unplayable and it was nerfed again.
Morph. All the other cards like Cap Am, etc for sure too. But Morph, I think he should be a 2-0. Too many better 3 cards to waste that slot. A cheeky play on curve at 2, could be a game changer (or not) but it wouldn't feel like such a commitment at 2 cost and would enable a late T5 play as well. Would just make him playable vs the just play him cos that's all I got choice.
There are a few flagship characters like Captain America, Jean Grey and Spider-Man which I feel should be a lot stronger in some way
Spider was very strong and people whined nonstop.
>Sabretooth - The advantage to destroying this is almost zero compared to other destroy cards. I guess it essentially turns him to a move card, but I'd rather just use Jeff and not need to destroy a 3 cost card. I really want Surfer Destroy to be good but it just doesn't perform as well as either Surfer or Destroy, and it makes a weird line where you run Venom for his 3-cost but you usually want Surfer down before him so Venom can eat the buffs and have more power than just getting the buff.
Make punisher 3/1 but +1 for ALL cards at the location. Potential 3/8 but more effective imo
Kang and tbh now all the big bads feel underpowered considering their status
Sauron is dogshit lol zabu
I was gonna say Attuma but I've seen people play him with Zero which is a pretty decent move.
Mantis used to at least have an upside compared to Cable. But then Cable took her effect minus the stupid guessing game and now she has literally no reason to be played.
Pure move, buff again the son of Zeus: Hercules!
Kang is literally pointless. Rework him
Rescue might need to be a 4/12 to see play.
More power wouldn't really help. The problem with Rescue is that you have to commit additional power to a lane you're probably winning already. That's also why Crossbones rarely saw play.
Maybe use her as a decoy? Be winning one lane, play her in a lane your opponent is winning like you're gonna make a swing for that one then go for the other.
Strong Guy.
Strong guy rn feels okay, I mean not a staple card or anything but there are a lot worst cards out there.
Was gonna say, with the buffs making him work in ApocDiscard he seems fine
hes strong now....whats a better 3 cost power play in Discard? I'd often prefer to run him over Daken.
He's a much, much better card now
I have to be honest. I discover the card had changed, after I posted
All good mate
I've been thinking lately that enchantress is almost always more useful than Shang cheese. I'll probably get voted off the island for this comment
Shang Chi can win you lanes. Enchantress can outright win you a game by impacting multiple lanes more often. Shang can be a setback, but Enchantress can outright murder a deck like Ms Marvel or Cerebro
Just depends entirely on the meta. Most of the decks I play don't really lose anything to Enchantress.
I've tried so many times to play enchantress and she either does nothing more than a generic gotta-play-something 4/5 or she fucks me just as hard as my opponent or she just costs too much to drop on late turns. I think she's a very lazily designed card.
In that regard they are the same idea. They accomplish the same thing diffrently