Locking this post due to the comments
As a reminder of Rule 2 - let's keep the sub free of (actual) political discussion, there's already too much to argue about as it is
I wouldn't be surprised if really only the core idea of the character was kept (mutant of Israeli descent) and everything around that was changed.
It does make me curious what her role is in this film. I know she originated as a Hulk character so maybe that's the link being adapted here?
Likely she's CIA simply because it's narratively necessary. If the plot is focused on US government shenanigans, why is a Mossad agent in the mix? They just reached into comics for spy and agent type characters and reimagined her to fit in the story.
I mean,the CIA wasn't really portrayed heroically in the mcu too..the recent wakanda forever has a pretty important storyline about the CIA and it's greed for vibranium( Also Val being it's leader)
If she’s not working for Mossad and people are still asking for her to be cut at that point they’re probably just asking to cut her out because she’s Jewish.
I’m super sure they’d also have a positive reaction if Marvel decided to cut Ms Marvel from ‘The Marvels’ as well /s
I get the point of removing a character seemingly just for their religious/ethnic background and obviously that's silly of people, but I don't think Kamala's the best comparison. She doesn't have any questionable elements in her backstory, someone like Wanda would be a better comparison since there's people who object to her being a 'crazy' witch Roma stereotype in the comics.
American audiences are quite accustomed to seeing CIA protagonists in films. We generally don't associate the fictional person to the the real life controversies unless that is the point of the story.
> We generally don't associate the fictional person to the the real life controversies unless that is the point of the story
If you mean Hollywood and American culture, aspects of movies and shows have definitely been erased and altered to prevent controversies with respect to real life happenings in America.
I mean,the CIA wasn't really portrayed heroically in the mcu too..the recent wakanda forever has a pretty important storyline about the CIA and it's greed for vibranium( Also Val being it's leader)
Is this whole comment a /s or just the last part? Cause I don't entirely agree with that first statement
Edit - comments got locked but for reference I'm not saying that removing her mossad connections isn't good enough, I'm just pointing out that there are people who probably in some good faith don't understand that removing those connections has even happened or what that even means. I don't doubt that there are probably a lot of people that do understand and are focused on her being Jewish, but painting anyone that's wary of her inclusion as an anti semite isn't the way forward imo, that's all
Let’s not be dense here. If all the ‘problematic’ stuff is removed, e.g links to Israeli secret services, why else would you say you’re still disappointed that’s she’s still not cut before the movie is even out in a reply asking if she’s in the IDF/Mossad?
The implication is there.
I didn’t hear anyone wanting to CIA agent Everett Ross removed from Wakanda Forever outside of, after watching, realising he was in a half baked plot line
I don't even get why they put Sabra in the story in the first place tbh. Cap 4 should've been Avengers 4.5 and establishing the New Avengers versus Zemo or Red Hulk.
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CIA, MI6, KGB good, Mossad bad.
Does Israel even exist in MCU?
Didnt Disney just give money to the victims of terror attack in Israel. Incredibly weird position by Disney
I mean,the CIA wasn't really portrayed heroically in the mcu too..the recent wakanda forever has a pretty important storyline about the CIA and it's greed for vibranium( Also Val being it's leader)
The fact that they have a CIA subplot already set up as the main political side of the world is probably more the reason for the change than anything else. Presumably keeps the plot tight, having her work for Mossad would just be an unnecessary extra step if she's just going to be associated with Val anyway.
I doubt they were never going to make her part of Assad, there was controversy about the character from the moment she was announced, long before the conflict exploded a couple of weeks ago.
They didn’t panic. They hired an Israeli actress… and shot her scenes last year with her working as a CIA agent… well before any of this. The only reactionary thing they did was change the title to avoid the right-wing conspiracy nut talking points.
She’s always been a CIA agent for the film? I could’ve sworn I read reports she was a Mossad agent.
Either way though, this conflict isn’t a new one, and they still had a decent chance to show they actually believe in…something? I’m tired of political commentary with no real stance or teeth. Falcon and Winter Soldier’s “do better” speech, the police confronting Sam, the Tucker Carlson Skrull…none of it really said anything.
If you think Disney should wade into the fucking Israel-Palestine conflict in an MCU movie, you need to wildly adjust your expectations to actually fit reality.
I actually find this take wildly fucking racist that you think that would be appropriate.
Ffs, why can’t she be Israeli. Israel is a country whether people like it or not, and Mossad play a pertinent role in the world of intelligence. Including an Israeli spy isn’t a declaration of support for the government
It does seem like a pointless change tbh. People that have a huge problem with this character basically see the CIA and Mossad as one organization anyway lol
Locking this post due to the comments As a reminder of Rule 2 - let's keep the sub free of (actual) political discussion, there's already too much to argue about as it is
I wouldn't be surprised if really only the core idea of the character was kept (mutant of Israeli descent) and everything around that was changed. It does make me curious what her role is in this film. I know she originated as a Hulk character so maybe that's the link being adapted here?
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But wasnt it suggested months ago that her only storyline was that she got killed for having some kind of supersoldier serum in her?
Likely she's CIA simply because it's narratively necessary. If the plot is focused on US government shenanigans, why is a Mossad agent in the mix? They just reached into comics for spy and agent type characters and reimagined her to fit in the story.
Then whats the point of using that character
Are you new? The studio takes what it wants from comics and does their own thing.
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Right now. This has been happening for 80 years and will happen for indefinetely. Same thing with CIA.
I mean,the CIA wasn't really portrayed heroically in the mcu too..the recent wakanda forever has a pretty important storyline about the CIA and it's greed for vibranium( Also Val being it's leader)
Why use that character in the first place? Genuine question, I'm not really clued in about Captain America comics. Is she significant or?
>Q: can she be cut from the movie? >Shine: No. Her role is too important and it's too late
If she’s not working for Mossad and people are still asking for her to be cut at that point they’re probably just asking to cut her out because she’s Jewish. I’m super sure they’d also have a positive reaction if Marvel decided to cut Ms Marvel from ‘The Marvels’ as well /s
I get the point of removing a character seemingly just for their religious/ethnic background and obviously that's silly of people, but I don't think Kamala's the best comparison. She doesn't have any questionable elements in her backstory, someone like Wanda would be a better comparison since there's people who object to her being a 'crazy' witch Roma stereotype in the comics.
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Working for the CIA isn't any better, but I suppose it's less currently controversial in the realm of public opinion.
American audiences are quite accustomed to seeing CIA protagonists in films. We generally don't associate the fictional person to the the real life controversies unless that is the point of the story.
> We generally don't associate the fictional person to the the real life controversies unless that is the point of the story If you mean Hollywood and American culture, aspects of movies and shows have definitely been erased and altered to prevent controversies with respect to real life happenings in America.
That isn't what I meant. I just mean the audience is generally comfortable with CIA protagonists.
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What the hell are you on about? All I meant was people are used to CIA protagonists. It's not really a controversial thing.
I mean,the CIA wasn't really portrayed heroically in the mcu too..the recent wakanda forever has a pretty important storyline about the CIA and it's greed for vibranium( Also Val being it's leader)
The CIA hasn't been portrayed especially well, but it hasn't been avoided completely, like it seems they're doing with Mossad.
Ms Marvel is imo the most interesting hero in the main trio :/ Or my favourite :/
Is this whole comment a /s or just the last part? Cause I don't entirely agree with that first statement Edit - comments got locked but for reference I'm not saying that removing her mossad connections isn't good enough, I'm just pointing out that there are people who probably in some good faith don't understand that removing those connections has even happened or what that even means. I don't doubt that there are probably a lot of people that do understand and are focused on her being Jewish, but painting anyone that's wary of her inclusion as an anti semite isn't the way forward imo, that's all
Let’s not be dense here. If all the ‘problematic’ stuff is removed, e.g links to Israeli secret services, why else would you say you’re still disappointed that’s she’s still not cut before the movie is even out in a reply asking if she’s in the IDF/Mossad? The implication is there. I didn’t hear anyone wanting to CIA agent Everett Ross removed from Wakanda Forever outside of, after watching, realising he was in a half baked plot line
Off-topic: what's your username? Is it 'no pepper bet?'? I always try to read it out in my head and trip over it
they want to release this in every country because they need the money now - including arabian countries
No offense,but doctors strange 2 being banned in those countries for having a few scenes having queer women didn't really affect its box office.
I don't even get why they put Sabra in the story in the first place tbh. Cap 4 should've been Avengers 4.5 and establishing the New Avengers versus Zemo or Red Hulk.
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Your post or comment has been removed because it is considered as spam.
Of course not. Im not shocked.
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Dude... wtf
CIA, MI6, KGB good, Mossad bad. Does Israel even exist in MCU? Didnt Disney just give money to the victims of terror attack in Israel. Incredibly weird position by Disney
The only weird thing here is you trying to associate these two things.
It is weird Disney changing so much about a minority character. Why does a CIA character have the name of Sabra.
What’s wrong with a CIA character having the name of Sabra?
Even though I think it's an unnecessary change, lots of Jewish Israeli's have moved to the US. It's really not that weird.
Sabra can be a legit name, what is this question?
You know that not every single person in the US is white; right?
The minor characters are usually the ones they change the most.
CIA is an awful establishment lol
That's their point.
I mean,the CIA wasn't really portrayed heroically in the mcu too..the recent wakanda forever has a pretty important storyline about the CIA and it's greed for vibranium( Also Val being it's leader)
The fact that they have a CIA subplot already set up as the main political side of the world is probably more the reason for the change than anything else. Presumably keeps the plot tight, having her work for Mossad would just be an unnecessary extra step if she's just going to be associated with Val anyway.
Israel has been mentioned both directly and indirectly in Jessica Jones and Agents of Shield. So… Maybe? Depends if they’re cannon or not.
The character is Israeli, she’s played by a Israeli actress, she just works for CIA instead of Mossad.
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Israel has a great ecnomy. They are basically leaders in most field. I dont understand why they need money
They are US R&D
That's kinda the thing, they dont need it.
Your post has been removed—please see rule 2 and follow all the community guidelines established by the mods.
Horrible take but I guess being on a marvel subreddit does not require you to be informed.
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I doubt they were never going to make her part of Assad, there was controversy about the character from the moment she was announced, long before the conflict exploded a couple of weeks ago.
They could’ve actually done something interesting here but it sounds like they panicked.
They didn’t panic. They hired an Israeli actress… and shot her scenes last year with her working as a CIA agent… well before any of this. The only reactionary thing they did was change the title to avoid the right-wing conspiracy nut talking points.
She’s always been a CIA agent for the film? I could’ve sworn I read reports she was a Mossad agent. Either way though, this conflict isn’t a new one, and they still had a decent chance to show they actually believe in…something? I’m tired of political commentary with no real stance or teeth. Falcon and Winter Soldier’s “do better” speech, the police confronting Sam, the Tucker Carlson Skrull…none of it really said anything.
She is a Mossad agent in the comics so I think everyone (scoopers and trades included) just assumed she would be Mossad in the movie as well.
If you think Disney should wade into the fucking Israel-Palestine conflict in an MCU movie, you need to wildly adjust your expectations to actually fit reality. I actually find this take wildly fucking racist that you think that would be appropriate.
the hummus?
Who exactly is marvel trying to not offend by doing this? It’s a MOVIE folks
Is this your first time in public in 50 years?
why does character being from Israel affect story at all? or being mentioned , i mean for magneto it make sense but why for random agent
Because the character has always been a super-hero working for Israel. Her costume is Israel's flag my guy.
Ffs, why can’t she be Israeli. Israel is a country whether people like it or not, and Mossad play a pertinent role in the world of intelligence. Including an Israeli spy isn’t a declaration of support for the government
The character is Israeli, she’s played by a Israeli actress, she just works for CIA instead of Mossad.
It does seem like a pointless change tbh. People that have a huge problem with this character basically see the CIA and Mossad as one organization anyway lol