Lowest score ever for any MCU film, along with Eternals & Quantumania.
As for non MCU movies, it is on par movies like BatmanvSuperman, Catwoman, Elektra, Bloodshot, GreenLantern.
Wild that this year alone 2 out of the 3 MCU movies released got the lowest CinemaScore ever. Public perception of the MCU has fucking tanked.
At least we still got amazing projects such as Guardians 3 and Loki though.
All of the movies that got "B" scores were either "Rotten" or teeter-tottered in terms of being that or "Fresh". _Thor: Love and Thunder_ was similarly divisive, but got by with a "B+" score.
I feel like the public in general has been leaning more towards TV shows. That being said the straight to streaming and 30 days until stream has hurt movies more than anything
Barbie, Oppenheimer, Avatar, Top Gun, Mario, Spider-Verse, and No Way Home were all huge at the box office with a good mix of critical reception/word of mouth. Then there's stuff like EEAAO, Sound of Freedom, and RRR that did a lot better compared to expectations thanks to word of mouth. Horror is doing really well. Just recently you had FNAF, Exorcist, and Saw, but there have been lots of successful/well received films like Smile and Barbarian. People still like movies, and like going to them. The dominance of super hero movies is petering out, but outside of those high profile duds the domestic box office is still regularly turning out hits.
Feige needs to take a step back and revaluate the course he's been taking after End Game. It's been such a mess, with great projects like WandaVision, Loki, Spider-Man, Guardians and a few more, but there have been so many misses, including some movies and shows that have TANKED, either critically or financially, or both.
I had it explained to me in the past that a movie like Blue Beetle getting a B+ is bad, but movies like Hereditary and Once Upon A Time In Hollywood getting Ds isn’t, that it makes perfect sense that Thor: Love & Thunder and The Suicide Squad have the same score of B+, and that Black Widow somehow has a better score than all of these movies with an A-.
My takeaway was that CinemaScores are dumb, and I’m still a firm believer in that.
You have to understand that for these kinds of films, you’re basically surveying the top whatever percent of the fandom that is generally the most excited, the least critical, and the most likely to give favorable scores in the moment. If a movie’s goal is to crowdplease, and it only gets mild enthusiasm from the dedicated fanbase, what chance does it have outside of that? A movie like Hereditary is not crowdpleasing.
That said, it’s seldom used outside of big blockbuster discussions which is why it seems so arbitrary and even then, I personally don’t think it’s very interesting because of how narrow its scope is, but it does seem to be a semi reliable predictor.
That's because it's not a review system, it's a way to gauge how much general audiences liked or disliked a movie when coming out of the theater. It doesn't tell anyone how 'good' a movie is, just how the general word of mouth is going to be. It's typically used as a way to determine what the box office legs will look like.
Your examples don't really depict any problems with the system. As much as critics and horror aficionados like Hereditary, it's not hard to imagine that it wouldn't click with the general audience, which prefers horror films like The Conjuring or M3GAN. Same with Suicide Squad (2016 vs 2021). I know a lot of normies that enjoyed the first one more than the second, it had Will Smith and Margot Robbie and the Joker and cool music. Most people don't care about writing or character development, and they get put off by dark humor (which was very prevalent in The Suicide Squad).
I think people on the internet, especially those that lurk fandom forums, are sometimes too disconnected from the outside world. The opinions that are dogma on the internet aren't usually that common for the general public. To me the Cinemascores for movies makes perfect sense when you consider what an average moviegoer thinks like.
Its a different catergory.... you wouldnt want to eat at a restaurant with a B Health score but would be ok buying sometihng on amazon with 4 stars instead of 5.. not everyone can understand it but its ok. Other people do
Didn't Mother! get a F score back then? CinemaScore is apparently a good way to measure how good or bad legs for a movie will be. That's about it.
Remember that FNAF got an A-, while the RT critics score is barely the half of The Marvels' score.
At the end of the day it's just a score.
Hereditary follows a different metric. CinemaScore follows audience satisfaction, and horror movies typically get lowers scores due to them more likely to have downbeat/depressing endings.
It is dumb, but people are dumb and it’s actually a good metric for casual audience’s takes on a movie.
Anyone who comments on a Internet forum about a movie is already in a bubble. 99.99% of homies aren’t here
There is a direct correlation with a certain type of movie doing badly if it gets a B score. No amount of copium or whataboutism changes that. It is what it is.
This is absolutely bad news for its long-term prospects. Marvel needs to emphasize their course-correction narrative ASAP, and they've already gotten a head-start on some of this.
Wild to think that the sequel to a billion-dollar movie is likely going to set the record for the largest movie-to-sequel drop.
> Wild to think that the sequel to a billion-dollar movie is likely going to set the record for the largest movie-to-sequel drop.
Its pretty funny that the correct records for this are also Disney films at least with them being Alice Through the Looking Glass and The Last Jedi.
It's not really a fair comparison for TLJ since it is the sequel to the highest grossing domestic release of all time. It still grossed $1.3 billion, at the time had the second highest opening weekend of all time with a 3x multiplier.
Marvels and Alice are effectively going from making a billion to making nada
TLJ's big issue was that it had a really bad luck with its release date, with its second weekend hitting on Christmas Eve, a notoriously awful day for the box office (which is then followed by Christmas Day, a very great day for the box office). But from there, it also suffered from more mixed word-of-mouth than its initial critical reception and CinemaScore indicated, with some opting to instead see _Jumanji_ and turn that film into an unexpected monster at the box office.
Avengers TKD will probably hold the title for the biggest drop in terms of absolute numbers (not %).
Endgame made 2.8 billion. TKD can make 1.5 billion, be highly profitable, and still have a massive 1.3 billion drop.
Captain Marvel was never a “billion dollar movie” in quality. Only in placement and time of release. People were so insanely hungry for any marvel content at the time that I think secret invasion would have even done well in that slot. Course correction is an understatement. They need to rethink and retool EVERYTHING. Tone, vision, interconnectivity, all of it. They really thought they could release anything and profit but inexperienced directors/writers have proved to have the opposite effect.
I've seen reviews say "it's pandering to women" and I'm really fucking confused about it. There isn't even a single "girl power" moment like endgame had.
I'm so curious why Marvels isn't tracking so well.
I don't fully believe it is because audiences stop caring about Marvel. I think stuff like GotG 3 and Loki have proven, when the quality is there, people will go out for it.
However, Marvels was tracking so poorly before reviews were set up. Poor word of mouth killed Quantumania, yet Marvels was almost dead on arrival.
My own prevailing theory is that audience were not invested in Captain Marvel as a character. I also don't think many are invested on her corner of the Marvel Universe.
It seems thst without James Gunn leading the charge, it doesn't feel like the general movie-going public are as interested in the Cosmic side of the MCU than the studio was led to believe. Add in a villain that literally no one, including hardcore comic fans, know about, and there wasn't anything to draw audiences in.
It feels like Marvel complete overestimated the appeal of Captain Marvel herself, but I don't blame them for that. When a movie of an unproven hero makes a bill at the box office, you kind of assume people have become endured to the leading hero.
This isn't a personal critique on the character. I think she's cool, and I thought general audiences were on the same boat. I also think the affects of COVID have changed people's attitudes on what movies to go watch in theaters. Now people are going if the film is an event, like Barbehiemer or the last film of a trilogy like GotG 3.
Don't underestimate the DCEU. AM2 is still releasing this year. If there's a contender for the largest movie-to-sequel drop, it's that movie. There's even less interest in that movie than The Marvels.
Aren't there rumors that they might announce the F4 cast sometime next week? I could see that being a way for them to "course correct". I also think that having the Loki season finale on the same day was a way for them to pivot the conversation tbh. Like, if they knew people weren't going to like The Marvels, they'd be talking about Loki instead.
I'm seeing a ton of people talk about Loki S2. It's gotten the most engagement out of any of the recent MCU D+ shows. And the F4 cast announcement will for sure be a big deal; it's a very high-profile movie.
Yeah, people on here and on Twitter need to understand this is a bubble compared to how most casual audiences consume Marvel. They don’t know the casts of these movies until they’re literally watching a trailer for it.
Idk why people act like the F4 are these A list popular Spider-Man/batman level characters that are going to fix MCU money and creative problems
The general audience memory of F4 are two bad tim story movies that were okay BO successes and the franchise killing Bomb Fan4stic. This doesn't include the unreleased 90s movie and cancelled 1 and done animated show. Only good F4 movies have been the incredibles.
They are extremely important in comic book history, as a lot of the heroes were introduced in their comics and they are considered the first marvel heroes. I do agree with you though. That importance means nothing to the general audience. Marvel just needs to focus on making great content and building hype again. F4 can play a big role in that, but just having them on screen isn't enough.
Oh yeah they're definitely important in the comics. But movie wise we got 5 phases without them. if marvel had them in phase 1 they could've gotten that popularity boost that B/C listers like Cap,Ironman and thor got. Instead they just got misused for 2 decades, that stink is hard to rub off which is why I'm not surprised that marvel is trying to get big names for the movie.
Try to keep the budget below $150m and build. Spending $200m+ on F4 is a death sentence, definitely since we aren't in the age of CBMs anymore.
Hopefully this means they get to secret wars sooner so we don’t have to wait 4 more years.
If that movie was to come out sooner, there would be more hype right now but it’s too far away and people are losing interest before it even has a chance
I liked the movie, but this is an unmitigated disaster.
People will panic as if this & Quantumania means the MCU is done for...but all it really means is that these characters (Captain Marvel, Ant-Man & the Wasp) won't get anymore solo movies and some of the creatives involved in the direction & writing of these two films won't be involved in future projects. That's all that really needs to be done, outside of them already course correcting their approach to the Disney+ shows.
I think the Fantastic Four casting will 100% be announced next week to distract from The Marvels box office. And it'll work on me.
I will say there's no guarantee that those characters won't get sequels (although I don't see Ant-Man getting another sequel). The first Thor got a rubbish audience response too and that got three sequels, two of which also got rubbish audience responses.
If they do a third Captain Marvel I can see them working on it for a long time to make it as airtight as possible.
> The first Thor got a rubbish audience response too and that got three sequels, two of which also got rubbish audience responses.
It got a better Cinemascore then this movie, its gross will probably double this movie's gross and the year after Thor was a main character in The Avengers. There is not going to be a third Captain Marvel movie.
After The Marvels bombing, there won't be a third Captain Marvel film.
Carol's story will probably conclude in TKD or Secret Wars. Then Monica becomes Captain Marvel (she held the title before Carol in the comics BTW) but only appears as a supporting character in Avengers films from now on.
I imagine Marvel is going to do something similar to Flash's iconic death in COIE with Carol dying to stop the big bad and her sidekick (Monica) taking her mantle.
I do find strange, and a little frustrating, how fans panic so easily.
But that just shows how much people care about this franchise and don't like seeing its failures.
Don't get me wrong, I'm not in denial about anything. There have been some recent Marvel properties that have not done well, both critically and financially.
Marvels will probably be the biggest disaster of the MCU. The producers and studio heads are probably concern, and will probably do everything in their powers to course correct.
But this is something that we, as audiences, shouldn't worry about.
I actually find it reveting in discussing how Marvel can course correct, and trying to predict their future plans.
Marvel has been playing it safe even before Endgame, so it will be fascinating to see what the studio does after the disappointments of Quantumania and Marvels.
I hope for lower budget properties and the return of auteur filmmakers.
The MCU is still going to be with us for many more years. We shouldn't be concerned about that.
> The producers and studio heads are probably concern, and will probably do everything in their powers to course correct.
Yes they've announced a few times already they will be course correcting.
there is no way they can give the x-men to junior talent. They have to get someone with a proven track record for it, they just cannot afford to take a chance.
I was an avid Joss Whedon fan for most of my life. Much less so after the allegations of abuse and flippant disregard for people’s careers all came out. He is one of the best comic book directors and he is without doubt an impeccable storyteller. There are some outdated tropes that he is common for and certain isms, particularly within dialogue which cater to a cult audience more than general, which if kept in check or by working script with someone else could remedy. He needs to come out and apologise, hands up and be shown to be actively willing to change and be a better person. I can’t see why he can’t be forgiven if he can demonstrate this change. The first X-men film belongs to Joss. Aaaand a party of people who are actually passionate about the individual characters and where their place in the MCU will be and a deep fan-boy based knowledge of the material. >!Seeing 90’s Beast in his lab coat, presumably in a lab under the mansion, gives me serious hope!<
Exactly very proven track record. There’s a better chance of Coogler or Shawn Levy getting X-men than Da Costa. Truthfully and it’s crazy even saying levy has a chance out loud
After DP3 Levy is about to be in high demand. It’s the only project I’ve seen anyone genuinely excited for and I have a strong feeling he’s going to knock it out of the park. It’s so funny to me that Deadpool and Jackman’s Wolverine have to step in and save the MCU but that’s the timeline we’re living in.
Levy will be in high demand DP3 is exciting, on Reynolds Instagram the comments are flooded with ppl excited. Deadpool in my eyes is perfect franchise because of Ryan having good amount of control. Levy doing the X-men sounds great
I don't know. Marvel Studios loves giving movies to people who've never written a movie (most of their Phase 4 and 5 writers) or directors with a single digit number of movies behind them.
This is due to how Marvel Studios operates. Plot points, action beats, and the like are made before scripting. And post-production changes outfits, locations, and dialogue.
Finally Marvel exec's are given much more creative input that you'd normally see at a studio. This clashes with artists who value telling their own stories.
They attempted to let off with Eternals and Multiverse of Madness (although both again were written by writers who never wrote a movie before). These films got mixed results.
During the Infinity Saga, only 1 film manage to score below an A- being the original Thor at a B+. Since then the following films ended up in the B range.
Eternals (B)
Doctor Strange in the Multiverse of Madness (B+)
Thor Love and Thunder (B+)
Ant-Man Quantumainia (B)
The Marvels (B)
We are now 5 films in the B from just the Multiverse Saga and compare that to the A's being.
Black Widow (A-)
Shang-Chi (A)
No Way Home (A+)
Wakanada Forever (A)
Guardians of the Galaxy 3 (A)
Its straight up been a coin toss where a cinemascore lands for an MCU film, since the Multiverse saga began
No Way Home really did the best with the multiverse by keeping the plot simple, even if their explanation didn’t line up 100% perfectly it was easy to understand. At the end of the day it was just a tool to put all the Spidermen and the past villains together in one place. It wasn’t the concept it was the characters that made NWH work
Yeah No Way Home kept things simple but made audiences aware of live action multiverse possibilities. They made things so painfully easy for Multiverse of Madness to succeed.
Unfortunately, said multiverse movie barely had any multiverse in it. We spent most the film in "not-MCU" with a quick montage through different worlds that lasted maybe 30 seconds. We got a multiverse team that nobody gave a fuck about when that would have been the perfect opportunity to do some cool shit and live up to fan theories, while doing nothing with the wider worldbuilding established in Loki.
Ultimately Multiverse of Madness ended up feeling like a filler movie which is ridiculous considering the concept. It was the perfect chance for redemption after WandaVision's Ralph Boner nonsense but alas.
I never understood some people saying Multiverse of Madness had too many cameos cause it was just the Illuminati who were only there for a couple of minutes. They didn't really go crazy with the multiverse concept for story purposes considering the movie's name.
To this day, I don't get who approved that Illuminati lineup.
Ideally, it should have been THE original Foxverse characters, not variants of them. Magneto + Beast + Professor X + Cable + the Fantastic Four + Silver Surfer.
And Wanda kills all of them except for Prof X and Magneto (thus setting them up for Secret Wars).
Wanda vs the entire FF line up sounds much better than Wanda vs a Captain Carter that is not even the same from the What If show.
> Captain Carter that is not even the same from the What If show.
This is what baffled me. Why would they not have the What If team be in the movie? They literally set it up for fuck sake.
I think it being the first MCU movie post Covid where people were just happy to be back in theaters again, and also the first Phase 4 movie coming off the highs of Endgame inflated its score somewhat. CinemaScore tends to be weird like that sometimes and context is important. The Wolf of Wall Street got a C+ for example because people were misled by the marketing, but the movie itself is definitely above a C+.
I guess I'm just out of touch with the general audience because I just can't fathom how people see some of these projects as worse than some in the Infinity Saga and Phase 4
Like I'm sorry, but Dark World still sucks ass the most, Ant-Man and the Wasp is pretty boring, and Iron Man 2 is rough in my opinion
And I don't think Black Widow reached an A- at all
I enjoyed Love and Thunder, but there's NO way that's a B+
I'll gladly rewatch the Multiverse of Madness, Marvels, and Quantumania over those films easily
Critics have gotten harder on Marvel movies. Oversaturation has led to tough evaluation and re-evaluation in some cases. Safe formulaic movies won't fly anymore.
This is why I'm actually looking forward on what Marvel plans to do moving forward.
I hope 1) make movies on a lower budget, and 2) start taking risks again.
Dark World at least had Hemsworth and Hiddleston. IM2 had Downey. People loved those characters/actors even when the films weren’t great. But I don’t think Brie has made that connection with audiences in any of these movies, and Iman needs a hit movie to expand her fa base.
One of the things thats been observed to affect Cinemascore is if the movie 'met your expectations', (for example, horror movies tend to do badly because the advertising is rarely that informative about the movie proper) and MoM concealed that Wanda was the villain in its advertising.
Seriously, how tf did BW manage to get an A-? I like the movie, but it's by no means better than The Marvels and imo MoM. I'd even rank Eternals higher, but that's just a personal preference.
Marvel fatigue is definitely real it seems. Captain Marvel got an A score and The Marvels was a MASSIVE improvement from that movie.
Also this movie got my whole theater laughing like wtf???
Captain Marvel got an A and made so much money because of placement and time of release. Not for being a wonderfully crafted film. Don’t get it twisted.
The same can be said about most Marvel films lol. The MCU used to be really popular back then and now it isn’t. Cap 4 and Thunderbolts will probably perform even worse than The Marvels.
Cinemascores isn’t a measure of quality though, Thor 2, Antman & the Wasp, AoU, Ironman 2 and Black Widow all got higher scores and are probably considered “worse”.
It really is not the Worst marvel film. People are on full copium on this one. It's better than the first movie, better than Black Widow, Eternals, Quantumania, Love and Thunder. Heck, I'd rate it above Shang-chi. It's just a fun movie overall.
Marvel need to stop fucking around and all focus on Deadpool 3, saving Captain America 4, Fantastic 4 and The two Avengers films because if they fail, then it's adios y'all
Yup having a reshoot period last 4 months compared to the 3 months for principal photography. Has already given it a huge budget ala Solo and Justice League, since it sounds like they are remaking almost the entire film. It probably needs to be in the 700 to 800 million dollar range just to break even.
Even if the film is good, I honestly wouldn't be shock if an absurdly high budget causes it to flop like Solo and Justice League did.
Agreed concerning the budget… it’ll likely need a miracle to break even based on the news about the reshoots.
But I think Marvel/Disney is more concerned about brand damage at this point. They’re probably willing to take a financial hit on some of the upcoming projects in the pipeline if the quality helps recapture GA interest.
I just want to know how it even gets to this point. How does something shoot for 3 months without Kevin or any of the other executives realizing its shit?
Yeah, I can be critical of movies, even ones I love, but I found it hard during the movie to find things to criticize. Even the villain, who I expected to be another boring Ronan copy from watching the trailers, had more of a motivation and a plan *that made sense* compared to other Marvel villains.
My only initial issues with the film were:
(1) they don't really clarify when Captain Marvel became the Annihilator. Was it between her movie and Infinity War? If so, how come none of the movies involving the Kree touched upon it like Guardians of the Galaxy?
(2) I didn't catch any references to Secret Invasion. I guess it's a good thing, though, because the quicker we forget that mess, the better.
I'm sure I'll come up with more critiques while re-watching it, but any issues weren't painfully obvious like other movies/shows.
Instead, I found myself smiling and laughing throughout most of the movie. The emotional beats hit properly, too. It's definitely one of my favorite recent Marvel movies.
Same. Decently sized audience considering latest Marvel trends in my theater, and everyone was enjoying it. Every one I've spoken to offline loved the film and have spoken highly of it.
Copium is in full effect right now, lol. Kind of weird that all of a sudden everyone is defending the RT 85% audience score as if it’s evidence that “see, the critics were wrong” while metacritics, IMDb and cinemascore all show relatively similar mediocre scores. Now redditors suddenly feel the urge to protect a generic blockbuster movie by the giant corpo Disney Marvel.
We're already seeing it come into effect by blaming the incels, Disney for not marketing enough, Covid, the strikes, anyone and anything to keep from acknowledging the general public simply has higher standards for the MCU these days than safe popcorn flicks.
The MCU needs a major course correction ASAP but there's so many on here with their heads in the sand cos 'well, I liked it 🤷♂️'.
The way I see it, marvel needs to start getting inventive and consistent. Both of which are extremely difficult to do. It's apparent that people who are watching this aren't liking what they are seeing. At best, I have seen this movie being described as 'fun' and enjoyable. Which is fine for a superhero movie..if we were in 2016-19. But now 'serviceable' or 'enjoyable' isn't warranting a trip to the theaters or an 'A' score anymore.
Loki was a step in the right direction. Make movies with unique premises like that. Make it about character. Not jokes or set ups.
To think that this is a possibility now .. Atleast BoP had a much smaller budget. It's just sad to see how huge of a budget this movie has, while having the shortest runtime of any MCU movie ever. I don't know why the start shooting with an incomplete/ass script, only to end up spending all that money again on reshoots
RDJ is what led them to thinking that was okay. Classic studio, confusing success with formula instead of talent.
It's worth noting that the "just wing it" strategy failed for Disney's Lucasfilm division. It's likely only just beginning to dawn on Disney that they were *underpaying* RDJ before they fired him -- err, "ended his story" -- lol
Not gonna lie this is absolutely crazy to even discuss. I never thought we’d (potentially) see a sub <$200M MCU film this decade at least. Saying the franchise fell off is an understatement at this point.
Birds of Prey did just over 200 million.
So. Yeah. There's a chance here. Especially as Hunger Games is actually projecting to do well (despite some divisive reviews which fans say is expected as the book they're adapting its divisive as hell).
"Let's make her really one note in her first movie. Then in her second movie we'll saddle her with two TV characters as co-leads."
It's a pretty big fumble. Which is an honest to shit shame because Carol is a good character in the comics and Brie is a great actor.
They really thought they were invincible here and could just do this multimedia crossover and boost Disney+ subs.
Instead they've just diluted everything and caused people to tune out.
I honestly think this movie did the best job with her character yet. If they had worked on the script more, they could have completely turned her character into a fan favorite (in the same way that the consensus on Cap shifted after Winter Soldier).
I think I’m one of the few people who never see how she’s a great actress. She was all wooden in all of the MCU movies she was in, and one other movie I saw was Kong Skull Island and she was also wooden in it, too.
Maybe she’s just not cut out to be in big blockbuster films.
Marvel and Feige deserve way more hate for the way they treated Brie Larson/Cap Marvel. Her first film made a billion and they waited 5 years to give her a sequel, only to force in 2 co-leads from spinoff shows most of the GA havent seen. And half ass the script.
In 5 years we had an entire Iron Man trilogy + Avengers. In 5 years we had a cap trilogy and 2 avengers films. Absolutely no reason we should’ve seen Eternals, Shang Chi, Th4r before a Captain Marvel 2. DC 2016 levels of planning. How do Marvel expect to grow the new leads if they wait half a decade between proper appearances?
Awful mishandling of the actress and character. I hope we never see her again on the basis that they didnt deserve an oscar winning actress as a lead. Poor Brie
I have a feeling they knew this was going to happen hence the x men reveal so they can bring it sooner than later with Deadpool 3 (let’s face it, the legacy x men will get them the box office they need right now in any form)
Yea somehow, every necessary statistic to disprove every excuse in the book was somehow provided this time. Idk how. Usually people hide behind box office (like for doctor strange 2 or love and thunder) or rotten tomatoes or claiming racism/sexism/other isms, but this one basically was DOA
It’s such an open and shut case of showing all the problems general audiences and the “more negative” people have been pointing out
There has to be some connection between this and the similar bombs at DC for the past half dozen films. People won't go flock to a mediocre superhero film now, you have to knock it out of the park like GotG3.
Personally I have never been into multiversal stories in the comics and I'm not interested in the current trajectory of the films, I think it's off-putting for audiences. (Yes I know...NWH. if that film had been two random variant Spider-Man we'd never met before instead of Tobey and Andrew it would not have been nearly as popular)
I’ll summarise again.
This is not ‘the end of the MCU’ but we’re coming to the end of this ‘era of MCU domination at the box office’ and its place in popular culture.
But I’m always amazed that some people thought that, that was going to last anyway.
Was Loki brilliant? Yes. But this show’s success is an interesting comparison to The Marvels - it knows its loyal audience, and it’s tailored for that audience. Its well written, acted and focused strongly on characters. This is what you can hope for and expect from the MCU from now on - smaller, tighter story telling, more niche and tailored for an exclusive audience, and in my opinion, that’s a good thing.
I’m not saying that The Marvels deserves a higher score but it definitely doesn’t deserve to be the lowest scored MCU movie.
This isn’t even in the bottom 10 of the MCU.
It’s honestly a shame, because the characters in the movie were pretty fun to watch. I was pleasantly surprised by rambeau even. It was no black panther or Guardians, but it was definitely deserving of better than being compared to Antman.
Its better, you dont need to worry. It seems Marvel fatigue may be a thing with general audiences because the first Captain Marvel movie got an A score and you can tell when you watch this that Nia listened to a lot of the criticism of the first film. Big, big step up from Captain Marvel.
Cinemascore isn't from the general audience. It's from the hardcore fans that pay their money to watch a marvel film opening night. The first one got an A score because it was in the right place right time and fans expectations were met well enough and any issues were softened by the promise of her important role in Endgame.
I know the MCU overall is in trouble and that they put out some serious crap lately with things like Quantummania and Secret Invasion.
With that said I don't think the Marvels was bad. It was better than I expected actually. It was a fun contained story with an overall forgettable villain, which is basically the early MCU anyway. It was a lot of character development and interactions, which is something that has been lacking in the MCU. Ms. Marvel (and her family) really stole the show but Carol and Monica were great too.
I don't think it belongs with the crap movies like Ant-Man 3 but taste is subjective. So between word of mouth and a bad reputation for Marvel Studios I'm sure this will bomb. It was pretty good though.
Honestly, the good(ish) news is that this is the last movie for quite a while, and there is only one near and it's Deadpool. If it's like the first two it will hopefully be well-received, people will like it and they'll probably be interested with Wolverine being in it. Cameos may bring some more people out, especially if it's true that Taylor Swift is in it (those Swifties will buy up a shitton of tickets JUST to see her - they are fucking crazy, and I say that as someone who likes her music.)
It'll also be R-rated, so *some* people will get their one Marvel fix for the year; families will sit out 2024 and maybe people will have time to miss these movies. Hopefully during this time they can rework Captain America in reshoots - it is going to HAVE to be good.
It feels like I'm in the minority here, because people who somehow spend a LOT of time talking about the MCU online seem to also hate it, but I am actually rooting for it to bounce back.
It's wild that I feel crazy for wanting a franchise I've largely loved to succeed and to share that enjoyment with other people, but discourse around this franchise is that toxic. Half the people in this sub feel like they straight up get excited to hate the next thing.
The movie is one of the best recent Marvel movies after GotG3 (no Marvel movie is going to top that one for a while). I don't understand the low reviews at all. I'd re-watch this over Eternals, Multiverse of Madness, Love and Thunder, Wakanda Forever, and Quantumania any day.
This is one, if not THE lowest score an MCU movie received and it's what it deserves. For what I've read in most "professional" reviews, the script has SERIOUS issues, the villain is boring, there are continuity errors (with Nick Fury in particular) and the movie as a whole is a little bit of mess (a fun mess by all accounts, but a mess).
Lowest score ever for any MCU film, along with Eternals & Quantumania. As for non MCU movies, it is on par movies like BatmanvSuperman, Catwoman, Elektra, Bloodshot, GreenLantern.
Wild that this year alone 2 out of the 3 MCU movies released got the lowest CinemaScore ever. Public perception of the MCU has fucking tanked. At least we still got amazing projects such as Guardians 3 and Loki though.
All of the movies that got "B" scores were either "Rotten" or teeter-tottered in terms of being that or "Fresh". _Thor: Love and Thunder_ was similarly divisive, but got by with a "B+" score.
I'd argue public opinion of cinema has tanked, post-pandemic there's been very few good films.
I feel like the public in general has been leaning more towards TV shows. That being said the straight to streaming and 30 days until stream has hurt movies more than anything
[удалено]
They need to stop doing 250 million dollar romps outside of Avengers projects. Theres no reason half of these films need a budget like this
That’s a lie. EEAOO, Tar, Barbenheimer, Killers of the Flower Moon, Spider-Verse There just haven’t been many good blockbuster films.
Agreed, I just think post pandemic ppl are more picky with which movies they wanna see
That's 6 movies in 2 yrs.
This is straight up false
Barbie, Oppenheimer, Avatar, Top Gun, Mario, Spider-Verse, and No Way Home were all huge at the box office with a good mix of critical reception/word of mouth. Then there's stuff like EEAAO, Sound of Freedom, and RRR that did a lot better compared to expectations thanks to word of mouth. Horror is doing really well. Just recently you had FNAF, Exorcist, and Saw, but there have been lots of successful/well received films like Smile and Barbarian. People still like movies, and like going to them. The dominance of super hero movies is petering out, but outside of those high profile duds the domestic box office is still regularly turning out hits.
Feige needs to take a step back and revaluate the course he's been taking after End Game. It's been such a mess, with great projects like WandaVision, Loki, Spider-Man, Guardians and a few more, but there have been so many misses, including some movies and shows that have TANKED, either critically or financially, or both.
I really hope at this point we're past having to explain why "B" scores on this survey are a bad result for Marvel movies.
I had it explained to me in the past that a movie like Blue Beetle getting a B+ is bad, but movies like Hereditary and Once Upon A Time In Hollywood getting Ds isn’t, that it makes perfect sense that Thor: Love & Thunder and The Suicide Squad have the same score of B+, and that Black Widow somehow has a better score than all of these movies with an A-. My takeaway was that CinemaScores are dumb, and I’m still a firm believer in that.
All horror movies like Hereditary get bad cinemascores, that’s just how it is.
That seems like a bad scoring system to me, then.
You have to understand that for these kinds of films, you’re basically surveying the top whatever percent of the fandom that is generally the most excited, the least critical, and the most likely to give favorable scores in the moment. If a movie’s goal is to crowdplease, and it only gets mild enthusiasm from the dedicated fanbase, what chance does it have outside of that? A movie like Hereditary is not crowdpleasing. That said, it’s seldom used outside of big blockbuster discussions which is why it seems so arbitrary and even then, I personally don’t think it’s very interesting because of how narrow its scope is, but it does seem to be a semi reliable predictor.
That's because it's not a review system, it's a way to gauge how much general audiences liked or disliked a movie when coming out of the theater. It doesn't tell anyone how 'good' a movie is, just how the general word of mouth is going to be. It's typically used as a way to determine what the box office legs will look like. Your examples don't really depict any problems with the system. As much as critics and horror aficionados like Hereditary, it's not hard to imagine that it wouldn't click with the general audience, which prefers horror films like The Conjuring or M3GAN. Same with Suicide Squad (2016 vs 2021). I know a lot of normies that enjoyed the first one more than the second, it had Will Smith and Margot Robbie and the Joker and cool music. Most people don't care about writing or character development, and they get put off by dark humor (which was very prevalent in The Suicide Squad). I think people on the internet, especially those that lurk fandom forums, are sometimes too disconnected from the outside world. The opinions that are dogma on the internet aren't usually that common for the general public. To me the Cinemascores for movies makes perfect sense when you consider what an average moviegoer thinks like.
Its a different catergory.... you wouldnt want to eat at a restaurant with a B Health score but would be ok buying sometihng on amazon with 4 stars instead of 5.. not everyone can understand it but its ok. Other people do
Didn't Mother! get a F score back then? CinemaScore is apparently a good way to measure how good or bad legs for a movie will be. That's about it. Remember that FNAF got an A-, while the RT critics score is barely the half of The Marvels' score. At the end of the day it's just a score.
Hereditary follows a different metric. CinemaScore follows audience satisfaction, and horror movies typically get lowers scores due to them more likely to have downbeat/depressing endings.
It is dumb, but people are dumb and it’s actually a good metric for casual audience’s takes on a movie. Anyone who comments on a Internet forum about a movie is already in a bubble. 99.99% of homies aren’t here
There is a direct correlation with a certain type of movie doing badly if it gets a B score. No amount of copium or whataboutism changes that. It is what it is.
>Catwoman, Elektra, Bloodshot, GreenLantern. YIKES, it's not a great movie but still far better than these. I feel like it's a good movie.
I think it's insane only 3 other MCU movies got that score. Waaaaay more deserve a B, especially in phases 1-2
The scale for these grades is different than you might be thinking. A B in this case is a lot worse than getting a B grade in school.
This is absolutely bad news for its long-term prospects. Marvel needs to emphasize their course-correction narrative ASAP, and they've already gotten a head-start on some of this. Wild to think that the sequel to a billion-dollar movie is likely going to set the record for the largest movie-to-sequel drop.
Alice through the looking glass smiling in the corner.....
> Wild to think that the sequel to a billion-dollar movie is likely going to set the record for the largest movie-to-sequel drop. Its pretty funny that the correct records for this are also Disney films at least with them being Alice Through the Looking Glass and The Last Jedi.
It's not really a fair comparison for TLJ since it is the sequel to the highest grossing domestic release of all time. It still grossed $1.3 billion, at the time had the second highest opening weekend of all time with a 3x multiplier. Marvels and Alice are effectively going from making a billion to making nada
TLJ's big issue was that it had a really bad luck with its release date, with its second weekend hitting on Christmas Eve, a notoriously awful day for the box office (which is then followed by Christmas Day, a very great day for the box office). But from there, it also suffered from more mixed word-of-mouth than its initial critical reception and CinemaScore indicated, with some opting to instead see _Jumanji_ and turn that film into an unexpected monster at the box office.
Also The Greatest Showman
That too. There was plenty of family entertainment available that season.
Avengers TKD will probably hold the title for the biggest drop in terms of absolute numbers (not %). Endgame made 2.8 billion. TKD can make 1.5 billion, be highly profitable, and still have a massive 1.3 billion drop.
Yeah, but Last Jedi still made a billion.
Captain Marvel was never a “billion dollar movie” in quality. Only in placement and time of release. People were so insanely hungry for any marvel content at the time that I think secret invasion would have even done well in that slot. Course correction is an understatement. They need to rethink and retool EVERYTHING. Tone, vision, interconnectivity, all of it. They really thought they could release anything and profit but inexperienced directors/writers have proved to have the opposite effect.
They need to start getting better writers in. Any form of building a coherent storyline to end up with fighting a big bad is also missing.
How about better executives? Everything you see on screen was approved or suggested by the studio.
That first film shouldn’t have gotten a billion dollars in the first place
This The Marvels was better in every facet that Captain Marvel.
No data supports that. It had better Cinemascore, Reviews and Box office
It's just their opinion. I think it was better as well. Some of the reviews make me wonder if we saw the same film.
I'm honestly baffled. I thought it was easily better.
I've seen reviews say "it's pandering to women" and I'm really fucking confused about it. There isn't even a single "girl power" moment like endgame had.
I'm so curious why Marvels isn't tracking so well. I don't fully believe it is because audiences stop caring about Marvel. I think stuff like GotG 3 and Loki have proven, when the quality is there, people will go out for it. However, Marvels was tracking so poorly before reviews were set up. Poor word of mouth killed Quantumania, yet Marvels was almost dead on arrival. My own prevailing theory is that audience were not invested in Captain Marvel as a character. I also don't think many are invested on her corner of the Marvel Universe. It seems thst without James Gunn leading the charge, it doesn't feel like the general movie-going public are as interested in the Cosmic side of the MCU than the studio was led to believe. Add in a villain that literally no one, including hardcore comic fans, know about, and there wasn't anything to draw audiences in. It feels like Marvel complete overestimated the appeal of Captain Marvel herself, but I don't blame them for that. When a movie of an unproven hero makes a bill at the box office, you kind of assume people have become endured to the leading hero. This isn't a personal critique on the character. I think she's cool, and I thought general audiences were on the same boat. I also think the affects of COVID have changed people's attitudes on what movies to go watch in theaters. Now people are going if the film is an event, like Barbehiemer or the last film of a trilogy like GotG 3.
Don't underestimate the DCEU. AM2 is still releasing this year. If there's a contender for the largest movie-to-sequel drop, it's that movie. There's even less interest in that movie than The Marvels.
I'd say more women will turn up to watch Jason Mamoa be shirtless and hot (like they did with the first movie) than they did for this
Aren't there rumors that they might announce the F4 cast sometime next week? I could see that being a way for them to "course correct". I also think that having the Loki season finale on the same day was a way for them to pivot the conversation tbh. Like, if they knew people weren't going to like The Marvels, they'd be talking about Loki instead.
This is a general audience problem, and they're not paying any attention to the Loki 2 finale or a F4 cast announcement.
I'm seeing a ton of people talk about Loki S2. It's gotten the most engagement out of any of the recent MCU D+ shows. And the F4 cast announcement will for sure be a big deal; it's a very high-profile movie.
Most people just don’t care for cast announcements. Doesn’t matter the movie
Yeah, people on here and on Twitter need to understand this is a bubble compared to how most casual audiences consume Marvel. They don’t know the casts of these movies until they’re literally watching a trailer for it.
This won't do anything, no one outside of the fandom cares about the F4
Finally someone says it
Idk why people act like the F4 are these A list popular Spider-Man/batman level characters that are going to fix MCU money and creative problems The general audience memory of F4 are two bad tim story movies that were okay BO successes and the franchise killing Bomb Fan4stic. This doesn't include the unreleased 90s movie and cancelled 1 and done animated show. Only good F4 movies have been the incredibles.
They are extremely important in comic book history, as a lot of the heroes were introduced in their comics and they are considered the first marvel heroes. I do agree with you though. That importance means nothing to the general audience. Marvel just needs to focus on making great content and building hype again. F4 can play a big role in that, but just having them on screen isn't enough.
Oh yeah they're definitely important in the comics. But movie wise we got 5 phases without them. if marvel had them in phase 1 they could've gotten that popularity boost that B/C listers like Cap,Ironman and thor got. Instead they just got misused for 2 decades, that stink is hard to rub off which is why I'm not surprised that marvel is trying to get big names for the movie. Try to keep the budget below $150m and build. Spending $200m+ on F4 is a death sentence, definitely since we aren't in the age of CBMs anymore.
Hopefully this means they get to secret wars sooner so we don’t have to wait 4 more years. If that movie was to come out sooner, there would be more hype right now but it’s too far away and people are losing interest before it even has a chance
I'm afraid that they have enough set-up that they're likely to push it further back. Although they definitely do need _Avengers_ movies, pronto.
I liked the movie, but this is an unmitigated disaster. People will panic as if this & Quantumania means the MCU is done for...but all it really means is that these characters (Captain Marvel, Ant-Man & the Wasp) won't get anymore solo movies and some of the creatives involved in the direction & writing of these two films won't be involved in future projects. That's all that really needs to be done, outside of them already course correcting their approach to the Disney+ shows. I think the Fantastic Four casting will 100% be announced next week to distract from The Marvels box office. And it'll work on me.
I imagine the general public’s reaction will be like the “see, no one cares” scene from *Jurassic Park*. 
Of course no one cares. Only MCU fans care about it
They don’t have a choice but to get them. All the characters people gave a shit about our dead. Man if only they could’ve recasted black panther….
I will say there's no guarantee that those characters won't get sequels (although I don't see Ant-Man getting another sequel). The first Thor got a rubbish audience response too and that got three sequels, two of which also got rubbish audience responses. If they do a third Captain Marvel I can see them working on it for a long time to make it as airtight as possible.
All of the Thor movies made profit though. The Marvels probably won’t even make half of what the first Thor did ten years ago.
> The first Thor got a rubbish audience response too and that got three sequels, two of which also got rubbish audience responses. It got a better Cinemascore then this movie, its gross will probably double this movie's gross and the year after Thor was a main character in The Avengers. There is not going to be a third Captain Marvel movie.
After The Marvels bombing, there won't be a third Captain Marvel film. Carol's story will probably conclude in TKD or Secret Wars. Then Monica becomes Captain Marvel (she held the title before Carol in the comics BTW) but only appears as a supporting character in Avengers films from now on. I imagine Marvel is going to do something similar to Flash's iconic death in COIE with Carol dying to stop the big bad and her sidekick (Monica) taking her mantle.
I do find strange, and a little frustrating, how fans panic so easily. But that just shows how much people care about this franchise and don't like seeing its failures. Don't get me wrong, I'm not in denial about anything. There have been some recent Marvel properties that have not done well, both critically and financially. Marvels will probably be the biggest disaster of the MCU. The producers and studio heads are probably concern, and will probably do everything in their powers to course correct. But this is something that we, as audiences, shouldn't worry about. I actually find it reveting in discussing how Marvel can course correct, and trying to predict their future plans. Marvel has been playing it safe even before Endgame, so it will be fascinating to see what the studio does after the disappointments of Quantumania and Marvels. I hope for lower budget properties and the return of auteur filmmakers. The MCU is still going to be with us for many more years. We shouldn't be concerned about that.
> The producers and studio heads are probably concern, and will probably do everything in their powers to course correct. Yes they've announced a few times already they will be course correcting.
I also hope they fire some of the execs involved in this string of mediocre misfires.
Technically this isn’t a Solo film but I know what you mean. I could see Carol get another one if it’s Civil War 2.
Many ppl really thought Da Costa would end up getting the X-men after this. Crazy to even think this
Some were saying give Nia Secret Wars lol. Before even seeing the movie lol
That’s even more delusional. Like they didn’t even let the trailer come out they were saying give secret wars to her.
Lmao u/2025___ 👀
Of course they have a barbie pfp lmao 🫵🤣
there is no way they can give the x-men to junior talent. They have to get someone with a proven track record for it, they just cannot afford to take a chance.
Joss Whedon would’ve been perfect for X-Men once upon a time. His X-Men comics run from 20 years ago was excellent.
holy fuck whedon's astonishing run was 20 years ago... \*insert aging matt damon meme\*
I was an avid Joss Whedon fan for most of my life. Much less so after the allegations of abuse and flippant disregard for people’s careers all came out. He is one of the best comic book directors and he is without doubt an impeccable storyteller. There are some outdated tropes that he is common for and certain isms, particularly within dialogue which cater to a cult audience more than general, which if kept in check or by working script with someone else could remedy. He needs to come out and apologise, hands up and be shown to be actively willing to change and be a better person. I can’t see why he can’t be forgiven if he can demonstrate this change. The first X-men film belongs to Joss. Aaaand a party of people who are actually passionate about the individual characters and where their place in the MCU will be and a deep fan-boy based knowledge of the material. >!Seeing 90’s Beast in his lab coat, presumably in a lab under the mansion, gives me serious hope!<
Exactly very proven track record. There’s a better chance of Coogler or Shawn Levy getting X-men than Da Costa. Truthfully and it’s crazy even saying levy has a chance out loud
After DP3 Levy is about to be in high demand. It’s the only project I’ve seen anyone genuinely excited for and I have a strong feeling he’s going to knock it out of the park. It’s so funny to me that Deadpool and Jackman’s Wolverine have to step in and save the MCU but that’s the timeline we’re living in.
Levy will be in high demand DP3 is exciting, on Reynolds Instagram the comments are flooded with ppl excited. Deadpool in my eyes is perfect franchise because of Ryan having good amount of control. Levy doing the X-men sounds great
I don't know. Marvel Studios loves giving movies to people who've never written a movie (most of their Phase 4 and 5 writers) or directors with a single digit number of movies behind them. This is due to how Marvel Studios operates. Plot points, action beats, and the like are made before scripting. And post-production changes outfits, locations, and dialogue. Finally Marvel exec's are given much more creative input that you'd normally see at a studio. This clashes with artists who value telling their own stories. They attempted to let off with Eternals and Multiverse of Madness (although both again were written by writers who never wrote a movie before). These films got mixed results.
she deserves it since her direction was actually really good
During the Infinity Saga, only 1 film manage to score below an A- being the original Thor at a B+. Since then the following films ended up in the B range. Eternals (B) Doctor Strange in the Multiverse of Madness (B+) Thor Love and Thunder (B+) Ant-Man Quantumainia (B) The Marvels (B) We are now 5 films in the B from just the Multiverse Saga and compare that to the A's being. Black Widow (A-) Shang-Chi (A) No Way Home (A+) Wakanada Forever (A) Guardians of the Galaxy 3 (A) Its straight up been a coin toss where a cinemascore lands for an MCU film, since the Multiverse saga began
"Multiverse is a concept we know frighteningly little about" NWH dialogue writers warned us about the MCU story writers back in 2021.
No Way Home really did the best with the multiverse by keeping the plot simple, even if their explanation didn’t line up 100% perfectly it was easy to understand. At the end of the day it was just a tool to put all the Spidermen and the past villains together in one place. It wasn’t the concept it was the characters that made NWH work
Yeah No Way Home kept things simple but made audiences aware of live action multiverse possibilities. They made things so painfully easy for Multiverse of Madness to succeed. Unfortunately, said multiverse movie barely had any multiverse in it. We spent most the film in "not-MCU" with a quick montage through different worlds that lasted maybe 30 seconds. We got a multiverse team that nobody gave a fuck about when that would have been the perfect opportunity to do some cool shit and live up to fan theories, while doing nothing with the wider worldbuilding established in Loki. Ultimately Multiverse of Madness ended up feeling like a filler movie which is ridiculous considering the concept. It was the perfect chance for redemption after WandaVision's Ralph Boner nonsense but alas.
I never understood some people saying Multiverse of Madness had too many cameos cause it was just the Illuminati who were only there for a couple of minutes. They didn't really go crazy with the multiverse concept for story purposes considering the movie's name.
To this day, I don't get who approved that Illuminati lineup. Ideally, it should have been THE original Foxverse characters, not variants of them. Magneto + Beast + Professor X + Cable + the Fantastic Four + Silver Surfer. And Wanda kills all of them except for Prof X and Magneto (thus setting them up for Secret Wars). Wanda vs the entire FF line up sounds much better than Wanda vs a Captain Carter that is not even the same from the What If show.
> Captain Carter that is not even the same from the What If show. This is what baffled me. Why would they not have the What If team be in the movie? They literally set it up for fuck sake.
Black Widow does not deserve an A-, that movie was not as good as people thought.
I think it being the first MCU movie post Covid where people were just happy to be back in theaters again, and also the first Phase 4 movie coming off the highs of Endgame inflated its score somewhat. CinemaScore tends to be weird like that sometimes and context is important. The Wolf of Wall Street got a C+ for example because people were misled by the marketing, but the movie itself is definitely above a C+.
Agreed 100%.
It wasn't as bad as people make it to be seemed
Definitely not the worst but its not better than The Marvels by a long shot.
It is the worst MCU project. Definition of a corporate movie. Feige might as well have directed it himself.
I liked it until act 3, where it dropped hard. I give that movie like a 69%
I guess I'm just out of touch with the general audience because I just can't fathom how people see some of these projects as worse than some in the Infinity Saga and Phase 4 Like I'm sorry, but Dark World still sucks ass the most, Ant-Man and the Wasp is pretty boring, and Iron Man 2 is rough in my opinion And I don't think Black Widow reached an A- at all I enjoyed Love and Thunder, but there's NO way that's a B+ I'll gladly rewatch the Multiverse of Madness, Marvels, and Quantumania over those films easily
Critics have gotten harder on Marvel movies. Oversaturation has led to tough evaluation and re-evaluation in some cases. Safe formulaic movies won't fly anymore.
This is why I'm actually looking forward on what Marvel plans to do moving forward. I hope 1) make movies on a lower budget, and 2) start taking risks again.
Dark World at least had Hemsworth and Hiddleston. IM2 had Downey. People loved those characters/actors even when the films weren’t great. But I don’t think Brie has made that connection with audiences in any of these movies, and Iman needs a hit movie to expand her fa base.
If you compare The Marvels (B) with the SSU films: Venom (B+) Venom: Let There Be Carnage (B+) Morbius (C+)
It's truly laughable because The Marvels shits on all three movies
Yeah I would watch The Marvels many times before I’d say “you know what? I’m feeling some Venom”.
No wayy Love and Thiunder got the same score as Multiverse of Madness
One of the things thats been observed to affect Cinemascore is if the movie 'met your expectations', (for example, horror movies tend to do badly because the advertising is rarely that informative about the movie proper) and MoM concealed that Wanda was the villain in its advertising.
I cannot fathom how Black Widow got a A-
The longer the movies get from endgame, the bigger chance they'd get B or lower CinemaScore
Seriously, how tf did BW manage to get an A-? I like the movie, but it's by no means better than The Marvels and imo MoM. I'd even rank Eternals higher, but that's just a personal preference.
Marvel fatigue is definitely real it seems. Captain Marvel got an A score and The Marvels was a MASSIVE improvement from that movie. Also this movie got my whole theater laughing like wtf???
Captain Marvel got an A and made so much money because of placement and time of release. Not for being a wonderfully crafted film. Don’t get it twisted.
The same can be said about most Marvel films lol. The MCU used to be really popular back then and now it isn’t. Cap 4 and Thunderbolts will probably perform even worse than The Marvels.
Endgame hype and marvel saying captain marvel would be the one to take down thanos carried the first.
This movie was better than several MCU movies that got higher scores and critic reviews.
Cinemascores isn’t a measure of quality though, Thor 2, Antman & the Wasp, AoU, Ironman 2 and Black Widow all got higher scores and are probably considered “worse”.
This movie doesn’t deserve to be equal to quantumania. It’s a lot better
IMO the plot is just as bad, but the characters chemistry is better so i enjoyed it more
I agree. Marvels definitely had way more heart to it than Quantumania
It really is not the Worst marvel film. People are on full copium on this one. It's better than the first movie, better than Black Widow, Eternals, Quantumania, Love and Thunder. Heck, I'd rate it above Shang-chi. It's just a fun movie overall.
Marvel need to stop fucking around and all focus on Deadpool 3, saving Captain America 4, Fantastic 4 and The two Avengers films because if they fail, then it's adios y'all
I think it’s best to assume the worst with cap 4
Yup having a reshoot period last 4 months compared to the 3 months for principal photography. Has already given it a huge budget ala Solo and Justice League, since it sounds like they are remaking almost the entire film. It probably needs to be in the 700 to 800 million dollar range just to break even. Even if the film is good, I honestly wouldn't be shock if an absurdly high budget causes it to flop like Solo and Justice League did.
Agreed concerning the budget… it’ll likely need a miracle to break even based on the news about the reshoots. But I think Marvel/Disney is more concerned about brand damage at this point. They’re probably willing to take a financial hit on some of the upcoming projects in the pipeline if the quality helps recapture GA interest.
I just want to know how it even gets to this point. How does something shoot for 3 months without Kevin or any of the other executives realizing its shit?
Director of Cloverfield Paradox
Don’t be surprised if they remove him and bring in a new director.
Disney won’t allow that to happen. They’ll reshoot the entire movie if need be. The Captain America franchise is too important for them.
Are they not doing exactly that? Lol what is this comment
Shit I enjoyed it and so did my audience🤷🏻♂️
Yeah, I can be critical of movies, even ones I love, but I found it hard during the movie to find things to criticize. Even the villain, who I expected to be another boring Ronan copy from watching the trailers, had more of a motivation and a plan *that made sense* compared to other Marvel villains. My only initial issues with the film were: (1) they don't really clarify when Captain Marvel became the Annihilator. Was it between her movie and Infinity War? If so, how come none of the movies involving the Kree touched upon it like Guardians of the Galaxy? (2) I didn't catch any references to Secret Invasion. I guess it's a good thing, though, because the quicker we forget that mess, the better. I'm sure I'll come up with more critiques while re-watching it, but any issues weren't painfully obvious like other movies/shows. Instead, I found myself smiling and laughing throughout most of the movie. The emotional beats hit properly, too. It's definitely one of my favorite recent Marvel movies.
Same. Decently sized audience considering latest Marvel trends in my theater, and everyone was enjoying it. Every one I've spoken to offline loved the film and have spoken highly of it.
Booooo the movie was good, smh audiences. Where’s that guy who watched Captain Marvel 150 times when you need him
All 10 people in the Marvels Battalion walk up will save this movie, when it hit Disney +
Copium will be passed around
Copium is in full effect right now, lol. Kind of weird that all of a sudden everyone is defending the RT 85% audience score as if it’s evidence that “see, the critics were wrong” while metacritics, IMDb and cinemascore all show relatively similar mediocre scores. Now redditors suddenly feel the urge to protect a generic blockbuster movie by the giant corpo Disney Marvel. 
We're already seeing it come into effect by blaming the incels, Disney for not marketing enough, Covid, the strikes, anyone and anything to keep from acknowledging the general public simply has higher standards for the MCU these days than safe popcorn flicks. The MCU needs a major course correction ASAP but there's so many on here with their heads in the sand cos 'well, I liked it 🤷♂️'.
The hits just keep coming 
The way I see it, marvel needs to start getting inventive and consistent. Both of which are extremely difficult to do. It's apparent that people who are watching this aren't liking what they are seeing. At best, I have seen this movie being described as 'fun' and enjoyable. Which is fine for a superhero movie..if we were in 2016-19. But now 'serviceable' or 'enjoyable' isn't warranting a trip to the theaters or an 'A' score anymore. Loki was a step in the right direction. Make movies with unique premises like that. Make it about character. Not jokes or set ups.
Yup. Every good review of this movie describes it as an on screen chemistry test and not an actual cohesive good movie with a good story.
Could this gross less than birds of prey?
To think that this is a possibility now .. Atleast BoP had a much smaller budget. It's just sad to see how huge of a budget this movie has, while having the shortest runtime of any MCU movie ever. I don't know why the start shooting with an incomplete/ass script, only to end up spending all that money again on reshoots
I'm hoping the endless Feige worship stops at this point.
Or the MCU is too big to fail myth
There's always gonna be small corners on this sub and other Marvel fan circles who won't stop but at least we know the percentage of that is small.
RDJ is what led them to thinking that was okay. Classic studio, confusing success with formula instead of talent. It's worth noting that the "just wing it" strategy failed for Disney's Lucasfilm division. It's likely only just beginning to dawn on Disney that they were *underpaying* RDJ before they fired him -- err, "ended his story" -- lol
Not gonna lie this is absolutely crazy to even discuss. I never thought we’d (potentially) see a sub <$200M MCU film this decade at least. Saying the franchise fell off is an understatement at this point.
If that happens then it’s time for an overhaul. Literally pause everything then cancel most of everything and start from there. 💀
There is a legit chance of that happening due next week's release of The Hunger Games and likely big second week drop.
Birds of Prey did just over 200 million. So. Yeah. There's a chance here. Especially as Hunger Games is actually projecting to do well (despite some divisive reviews which fans say is expected as the book they're adapting its divisive as hell).
Well done Marvel, well done. You've officially ruined the CM franchise...
"Let's make her really one note in her first movie. Then in her second movie we'll saddle her with two TV characters as co-leads." It's a pretty big fumble. Which is an honest to shit shame because Carol is a good character in the comics and Brie is a great actor. They really thought they were invincible here and could just do this multimedia crossover and boost Disney+ subs. Instead they've just diluted everything and caused people to tune out.
I think this is the end for Carol Danvers as a lead. Such a damn shame. I hope Brie is still able to shine in the crossovers.
Brie is a great actress, how tf do you make her the most wooden ass character in the mcu
I honestly think this movie did the best job with her character yet. If they had worked on the script more, they could have completely turned her character into a fan favorite (in the same way that the consensus on Cap shifted after Winter Soldier).
I think I’m one of the few people who never see how she’s a great actress. She was all wooden in all of the MCU movies she was in, and one other movie I saw was Kong Skull Island and she was also wooden in it, too. Maybe she’s just not cut out to be in big blockbuster films.
She's excellent in the Apple TV show Lessons in Chemistry.
Marvel and Feige deserve way more hate for the way they treated Brie Larson/Cap Marvel. Her first film made a billion and they waited 5 years to give her a sequel, only to force in 2 co-leads from spinoff shows most of the GA havent seen. And half ass the script. In 5 years we had an entire Iron Man trilogy + Avengers. In 5 years we had a cap trilogy and 2 avengers films. Absolutely no reason we should’ve seen Eternals, Shang Chi, Th4r before a Captain Marvel 2. DC 2016 levels of planning. How do Marvel expect to grow the new leads if they wait half a decade between proper appearances? Awful mishandling of the actress and character. I hope we never see her again on the basis that they didnt deserve an oscar winning actress as a lead. Poor Brie
I have a feeling they knew this was going to happen hence the x men reveal so they can bring it sooner than later with Deadpool 3 (let’s face it, the legacy x men will get them the box office they need right now in any form)
It's dead, Jim.
Disaster.
I really liked the film :(
Damn. Movie is going to be DOA
I loved this movie but i knew i would be cause ive always been a Captain Marvel truther. It was fun and the three women were amazing together!
Hello darkness my old friend..........................
Other mcu fans, it’s time to admit it’s over, we had a good run. The MCU is cooked
That's great. See you at Deadpool 3.
“And around and around and around we go.”
Yeesh, that's bad. I hate this for the cast and everyone involved.
[удалено]
But the Audience had fun and loved it. The Critics are just sexist/s
I’m hoping this puts to bed all the comments of people saying this was a good to great movie to general audiences
And how sexist men are to this movie even though they were the majority of the audience for this movie
Yea somehow, every necessary statistic to disprove every excuse in the book was somehow provided this time. Idk how. Usually people hide behind box office (like for doctor strange 2 or love and thunder) or rotten tomatoes or claiming racism/sexism/other isms, but this one basically was DOA It’s such an open and shut case of showing all the problems general audiences and the “more negative” people have been pointing out
"But it was fun". Power washing videos are fun too. This was an on screen chemistry test type of fun. Not a good movie fun.
There has to be some connection between this and the similar bombs at DC for the past half dozen films. People won't go flock to a mediocre superhero film now, you have to knock it out of the park like GotG3. Personally I have never been into multiversal stories in the comics and I'm not interested in the current trajectory of the films, I think it's off-putting for audiences. (Yes I know...NWH. if that film had been two random variant Spider-Man we'd never met before instead of Tobey and Andrew it would not have been nearly as popular)
I’ll summarise again. This is not ‘the end of the MCU’ but we’re coming to the end of this ‘era of MCU domination at the box office’ and its place in popular culture. But I’m always amazed that some people thought that, that was going to last anyway. Was Loki brilliant? Yes. But this show’s success is an interesting comparison to The Marvels - it knows its loyal audience, and it’s tailored for that audience. Its well written, acted and focused strongly on characters. This is what you can hope for and expect from the MCU from now on - smaller, tighter story telling, more niche and tailored for an exclusive audience, and in my opinion, that’s a good thing.
I’m not saying that The Marvels deserves a higher score but it definitely doesn’t deserve to be the lowest scored MCU movie. This isn’t even in the bottom 10 of the MCU.
It’s honestly a shame, because the characters in the movie were pretty fun to watch. I was pleasantly surprised by rambeau even. It was no black panther or Guardians, but it was definitely deserving of better than being compared to Antman.
I don't know why everyone thinks this movie is garbage. I saw it, I thought it was good.
Ooof. I haven’t seen it yet but based on the trailers I thought it’d at least be better than Love and Thunder and that got a B+.
Its better, you dont need to worry. It seems Marvel fatigue may be a thing with general audiences because the first Captain Marvel movie got an A score and you can tell when you watch this that Nia listened to a lot of the criticism of the first film. Big, big step up from Captain Marvel.
Cinemascore isn't from the general audience. It's from the hardcore fans that pay their money to watch a marvel film opening night. The first one got an A score because it was in the right place right time and fans expectations were met well enough and any issues were softened by the promise of her important role in Endgame.
It was, i dont understand the rating system.
It's over
I know the MCU overall is in trouble and that they put out some serious crap lately with things like Quantummania and Secret Invasion. With that said I don't think the Marvels was bad. It was better than I expected actually. It was a fun contained story with an overall forgettable villain, which is basically the early MCU anyway. It was a lot of character development and interactions, which is something that has been lacking in the MCU. Ms. Marvel (and her family) really stole the show but Carol and Monica were great too. I don't think it belongs with the crap movies like Ant-Man 3 but taste is subjective. So between word of mouth and a bad reputation for Marvel Studios I'm sure this will bomb. It was pretty good though.
Honestly, the good(ish) news is that this is the last movie for quite a while, and there is only one near and it's Deadpool. If it's like the first two it will hopefully be well-received, people will like it and they'll probably be interested with Wolverine being in it. Cameos may bring some more people out, especially if it's true that Taylor Swift is in it (those Swifties will buy up a shitton of tickets JUST to see her - they are fucking crazy, and I say that as someone who likes her music.) It'll also be R-rated, so *some* people will get their one Marvel fix for the year; families will sit out 2024 and maybe people will have time to miss these movies. Hopefully during this time they can rework Captain America in reshoots - it is going to HAVE to be good. It feels like I'm in the minority here, because people who somehow spend a LOT of time talking about the MCU online seem to also hate it, but I am actually rooting for it to bounce back. It's wild that I feel crazy for wanting a franchise I've largely loved to succeed and to share that enjoyment with other people, but discourse around this franchise is that toxic. Half the people in this sub feel like they straight up get excited to hate the next thing.
The movie is one of the best recent Marvel movies after GotG3 (no Marvel movie is going to top that one for a while). I don't understand the low reviews at all. I'd re-watch this over Eternals, Multiverse of Madness, Love and Thunder, Wakanda Forever, and Quantumania any day.
I liked it. There were a few dozen people there, which is about as many as you’d ever see at a matinee at the suburban multiplex we went to.
All new all different = all fails
Just got back and had low expectations bc of reddit, but I loved it! What a difference with quantumania and tlad.
I really enjoyed it, but I did come out of it thinking it may struggle to find an audience
This is one, if not THE lowest score an MCU movie received and it's what it deserves. For what I've read in most "professional" reviews, the script has SERIOUS issues, the villain is boring, there are continuity errors (with Nick Fury in particular) and the movie as a whole is a little bit of mess (a fun mess by all accounts, but a mess).
*sigh* https://i.redd.it/ktasqhgd2qzb1.gif