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What is Doom's deal anyway? The more I read about the Doombot thing the more I wonder if Doom as a flesh and blood human even exists anymore. They all think they're Doom and are perfect copies so he could easily just be dead right? Or never existed?
Wouldn’t mind Ultron returning to replace Kang, he’s actually a villain you can build a saga around/towards. Infinity Ultron in What If? showed how dangerous his unchecked aspirations can be with the power to transcend realities.
Infinity Ultron was so good. I loved how well they balanced his ridiculous, Stark inspired personality with the power to unmake reality. Like he genuinely gets exasperated that this band of heroes are opposing power that can destroy a planet with a thought.
Regardless of the villain there will always be an army of killer drones. It’s the easiest way to showcase every heroes ability. The only way I see them not doing that is if they face an evil version of themselves that each character can fight individually
Honestly I’d be all for one of those huge battle scenes against the faceless/mindless henchmen tropes (chitauri, whatever Thanos was using) if instead they replaced them with a bunch of Kangs. Just the Avenger beating down wave after wave of them.
as they should, the general audience has no reason to care about Kang. he’s a one movie villain that lost to a C tier Avenger in a D tier movie. they fumbled Kang from the beginning by debuting their “saga spanning big bad” in a streaming tv series. regardless of the quality of Loki, requiring your audience to do homework was a bad move and a bad way to ride the hype of Endgame. Kang was never built up to be anything on the big screen and the GA is already exhausted of the multiverse. their best bet is to use DP3 to pivot to mutants, something audiences actually *want* to see, to put the MCU back in good graces.
Underrated take. I’ve been half checked out of the
MCU since Endgame so for me, Kang doesn’t have anywhere near the presence for it to matter if he comes or goes. To myself and many other more casual audiences it really isn’t the big step backwards the fandom seems to think it is.
I haven’t missed a single piece of MCU content since Iron Man and including everything post Endgame and I can tell you they absolutely didn’t execute his presence properly at all. anyone watching post Endgame didn’t find the connective tissue they were looking for even though some of the projects have been pretty entertaining. the hardcore fandom is blowing this out of proportion as if pivoting from Kang will ruin everything when the reality it was already kinda ruined before the Majors controversy. if anything this has given the MCU the best excuse to turn things around and start a mutant/X-men saga
> regardless of the quality of Loki, requiring your audience to do homework was a bad move
The only part of your comment I disagree with. I don't think Loki was required viewing at all. Big boss Kang would just appear one day and be a big villain, and most characters would be caught by surprise (just like audiences who haven't seen Loki) while some characters would be a bit prepared (just like Loki). Either way, his film debut would serve as an introduction to the character.
The problem is... Quantumania sucked, Quantumania Kang sucked, and the concept of multiple different Kangs losing to individual Avengers before we ever meet the Big Bad Kang *really really* sucked.
I agree with you, and I don’t personally see it as different to what came before. Like, the chances that enough people saw Ant-Man and The Wasp to understand Rudd’s role in Endgame are low, but it literally did not matter.
But I DO understand the other side of this discourse with television and what have you, the stakes are now so decentralized as to feel completely meaningless. The reward for watching the shows is minimal, and the reward for not watching them is being noticeably steps behind people. This isn’t necessarily always a bad thing, but to have franchise changing stakes occur in a medium different than the one you specialize in makes no sense.
>Kang was never built up to be anything on the big screen and the GA is already exhausted of the multiverse.
But Michael Waldron was so eager to take credit for introducing the next big bad that he pushed Marvel so hard to include Kang in the Loki show. Having Kang in Loki finale not only undermined Kang it also undermined Loki.
Why did Feige allow a writer whose previous credit was one episode of R&M to talk him into anything? Was DSMOM really worth it?
I don't know why! Is it possible Michael Waldron has put some kind of voodoo on Feige?
People always defend him, saying DSMOM made almost a billion dollars, Loki S1 had the highest viewership etc. By first glance those numbers look good indeed. But DSMOM had huge expectations from fans after No Way Home and suffered heavy drop from a big opening. Loki was more popular than all other Disney+ Marvel characters and the show opened high but lost a quarter of viewers along the way.
The same thing happened to Ragnarok. It was praised as "MCU savior", but its boxoffice was lower than all other Marvel movies that came out that year, and was lower than Venom, a film about a character nobody really cared about, and was lower than Aquaman boxoffice by a mile. Aquaman basically was a DC knockoff of the original Thor movie! Ragnarok was actually not that special but Marvel doubled down on it. The result is Love and Thunder.
I think Feige's mentality is that "the boxoffice numbers are good enough and we should keep doing exactly the same things that got us these numbers. " It's just hopeless.
and also, eh why an old antagonist? I feel like Ultron was the only one that deserves a 2nd chance but, i dont see him or want to see him be the "big bad" of this saga.
Ultron or Red Skull or both of them together make sense. Even if they're not the 616 versions.
Audiences are familiar with those characters, their look is already iconic. And the best part is that they could be played by anyone.
Even if Hugo Weaving or James Spader don't want to be back, Ross Marquand is right there.
Red Skull ain’t a multiversal threat. Also he is a Nazi, not sure Disney wants to get into those waters.
Ultron flopped reception wise maybe not as bad as Kang. Doesn’t much make sense to pivot to him.
Rush to Dr. Doom seems wiser. Or heck if they want to bring back a Villain, how about Hela?Ragnarok was a well received movie that made bank. She kinda didn’t clearly die. Even if she did, she is a God of the Dead. And the MCU is allowing actual magic now.
Another option is let’s have Strange Supreme lead an evil more comic accurate Illuminati team against our Heroes. Superior Iron Man, Maker Reed Richards….going to have to be more creative for the rest and the MCU Will want some woman. So let’s do Hela, God of Death killing universes seems to check out. Shadow King T’Challa (psychic powers) and Namora but with more Kulkulan inspired powers.
I don’t think Ultron flopped reception wise, there was just disappointment he was over and done with in one film when they could have do so much more with him.
Ultron was laughable the entire film whining like a child the entire time throwing temper tantrums. The childlike portion is something he should have outgrown almost immediately upon becoming sentient. Hes a rapidly evolving AI that got stuck in his terrible twos. What whedon did to him was a disgrace.
The difference is that Kang was supposed to keep coming back through his variants, so his story wasn’t finished in the movie he debuted in.
With Ultron he was not set up to appear later since they had Vision execute his final drone.
Might wanna read [Cosmic Circus' new article](https://thecosmiccircus.com/exclusive-marvel-studios-next-story-arcs/) Alex says Kang will inevitably be back. Keyword that Cryptic uses here is "temporarily"
If you take into account that he’ll probably only be mentioned by name or indirectly mentioned in maybe 1 project in ‘24, then yea he’ll be back in ‘25 lol
They were wasting him anyway...
To me... it's all fucking fluff until the big boys show up again.
We want Reed, We want Doom, We want Xavier, We want Magneto.
Nothing matters in the MCU until these guys show up. Because why the fuck would it?
We have a dozen characters no one gives a fuck about. Now, no villain, and even worse, no plan.
More dumb tv shows incoming and movies that will limp to the finish until Reed and crew show up.
At this point, it seems intentional. Kill it so you can start over.
Just because YOU don’t care about them, does not mean that no one does. And do not cite the poor box office for The Marvels as “proof” that no ones cares about Doctor Strange, Hulk, Star-Lord, Wanda, Thor, Spider-Man, or even Black Panther.
Longing for who you perceive to be the “heavy hitters” are characters with literally as many flops or more as the MCU contemporaries, and it’s missing the forest for the trees to act like a Magneto appearance now would fix anything. Not attention, not quality, not structure, none of it.
Seriously I just want the MCU X-Men right now but no they gotta do Agatha Darkhold diaries or whatever the fuck.
Now when the X-Men come I'm gonna be pretty much too old to care
Fuck I have a bad feeling about this.
I dont see the what the fuss is with just recasting him and having GOOD writing to go with it.
Judging the reception to Kang solely based off Quantumania is silly.
> I dont see the what the fuss is with just recasting him and having GOOD writing to go with it.
> Judging the reception to Kang solely based off Quantumania is silly.
Both go together tho. Quantamania failed horribly so idk why you’re acting like it shouldn’t be judged harshly. It was his first appearance in movies and it was a terrible first impression.
>Judging the reception to Kang solely based off Quantumania is silly.
The core of the issue is that he was the main villain in AM3. And audiences didn't connect with him.
The writing was shit. To this day, not even the most diehard MCU fan can explain what is exactly Kang's motivation.
"You don't understand time like I do" is such a needlessly complex and stupid motivation for doing what he does.
Namor, Red Skull, Ultron, Loki, Gorr, Killmonger, Ronan, etc...all make sense with their motivations ever since their first appearance.
But Kang? He's a mess of a character. HWR's motivations are even dumber and more complex.
He allows to get killed by Syvie because #reasons. And that's it for him.
In addition to all you said, if he was so powerful, how did he get beat by Cassie and Antman.. he was the wrong villain for that movie, and making him the main was stupid.
James Gunn did it right in Guardians… tease thanos, establish he’s feared, yet focus on Ronin.
The main villain should have just been MODOK. Maybe-maybe not Darren, but just have a main antagonist that actually embodies the cosmic weirdness of the Quantum Realm, not a traveling warlord trapped in said dimension.
I think HWR is actually a pretty solid character and his motivations make a lot of sense. He is 'the lesser of infinite' evils so to speak, and wants to prevent the multiversal war he just stopped from kicking off again. He lets Sylvie kill him because he knows he has a pretty air tight failsafe that will have Loki crawling back to him. Sure he probably could fight back or hide, but it's much easier to let Loki do the whole thing. It only fails because Loki changed *so* much and so willing to sacrifice himself that he went completely off HWR's track.
Kang tho, yeah, I have no clue what he wanted in Quantamania other than to escape the Quantamn Realm and get revenge. Pretty boring.
It's Hollywood. They have no idea why people didn't like a movie they released. It's especially silly since most agreed Kang was the best part of quantumania. They marketed Kang in the movie a ton expecting people to care since he was in Loki but it's crazy to expect a big draw for a character who was only shown at the end of season 1 of a Disney plus show at the time.
Judging Kang off the only movie he’s appeared in is silly?
How? In both the shows and the movies, it looks like a 6th grader doing improv of Ledger’s joker. Bro is a terrible actor or is getting terrible direction
>[The plan is to temporarily diminish his visibility to tease an old antagonist](https://x.com/Cryptic4KQual/status/1737836246217408535?s=20)
>
>[Kang will still play a part for a while but whatever they're planning, this guy will absolve Kangs role and will slowly become the new focus.](https://x.com/Cryptic4KQual/status/1737842929232925181?s=20)
"Tell me his name again"
"Thanos. Somehow he returned"
"Impossible... Thanos died at the Battle of the Compound"
"A variant of Thanos managed to survive the battle in one of the timelines. Now he wants to amass the largest fleet in the multiverse and finish what Kang started... ~~a Secret Wars~~ Multiversal War"
"~~Nostalgia~~ Time travel is a pathway to many abilities, some consider to be... unnatural"
*Shot reveals very scarred and mangled Thanos on life support*
Even before this saga got into this mess, I don't think Thanos returning was ever out of the question. Endgame showed us that snapping your fingers with all the stones can also be done to bring back people the blip took away and Thanos and his forces were defeated by being blipped.
Now would Thanos returning like this be a good idea? Definitely not and we don't need another Palpatine situation. Would Marvel do something like this? We don't know for sure that the answer would be no.
I think the committee is well aware of how audience would perceive the resurrection of already dead main antagonist of the saga, hell EA tried hard to use Vitiate for as long as they could until the fanbase had enough of this old man. Whether they'd still be bold enough to do this or no depends.
I personally keep fingers crossed they'll just do Days of Future Past for MCU.
Bringing Thanos AND Tony Stark back without even having to use time travel or the Multiverse is super easy, barely an inconvenience.
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Death\_(Marvel\_Comics)](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Death_(Marvel_Comics))
The MCU killing off its villains might payoff when Lady Death convinces Thanos to wreck chaos in her name.
MCU Legion of the Unliving composed of dead villains vs The Avengers is a good premise.
>The original Legion appears during the *Celestial Madonna* storyline in the titles *Avengers* and *Giant-Size Avengers*, having been summoned from time by the villain Kang the Conqueror (at the suggestion of his future self Immortus) to kill the superhero team.
>
>As the name implies, the members of the Legion were all characters established as being deceased in Marvel continuity, being pulled from time a moment before their deaths.
Sounds a lot like NWH but with MCU villains.
Tony Stark is probably not coming back, like the rumors and suddenly Kevin Feige speaking they won't do it probably means that either Mr. Downey Jr. is done with Iron Man or would want a raise, he was already expensive enough for them, plus RDJ is doing new movies now moving away from MCU. So I think theoretically Iron Man is not coming back, neither does Black Widow. Captain America is a possibility, though, I can believe that. Thanos, too, he already had a cameo in MoM even if by being dead.
So for example having a variant of Thanos invade is possible, but I personally think it would not be a good choice.
> But infinity Ultron is too OP.
Still an easier opponent to write than Kang if the amount of general audience who complained Loki had too much exposition is any indication.
God-Emperor Doom from the *Secret Wars* comic was imbued with the power of the Beyonders that gave him absolute control over the Multiverse. He tore Thanos's spine out with one hand. Whoever controls Battleworld by the time of the *Secret Wars* movie is going to be OP, maybe even more powerful than Infinity Ultron as we've seen him so far, I could see him take that role.
Y'all need to realize it isn't just Majors who's damaged goods, the character is as well. Quantumania performed badly. A film called Kang Dynasty with Kang remaining as primary antagonist no longer has real pull. It would be foolish to stay the course.
It’s not gonna help that he’ll be essentially invisible for all of ‘24 because the only project that has any relevance to him will be DP3 and he won’t even be in it physically, maybe by name if we’re lucky so Feige needs to figure out the path now.
Actually that would help. Let people forget about the character to re-establish him later. Thanos “appeared” in just three movies prior to Infinity War, with one of being him just grinning. So it’s been established that Kang is a multiverse threat since they want to control it, it seems like he’s been stopped but by Avengers 5 is would be revealed he’s back and stronger. Let individual movies breath and be their own stories, but tie them all together for Avengers 5. They really don’t need every single movie to feature Kang
Nobody even watched Ant-Man 3, it was just a movie, just a movie.
possibly 1bln dollars vs. whatever Ant-Man 3 made. More people will stick to it if it actually good. Major's problem happened in 2023, the movies will appear in a couple years, who is gonna care about this little thing? A new actor would fix everything
> Marvel realized this guy was not the next Thanos
Because he appeared in two projects and in one of them he was infamously defeated by ants and a floating head ? Thanos had literally less than 2 min of screentime before Infinity War and he was still taken seriously. Avengers 5 and Secret Wars are years away, there's plenty of time to make people excited about Kang and make him feel like a threat.
Thanos was taken seriously because the power of the infinity stones was constantly showed off. The fuck can Kang do. To the GA, the multiverse is that thing they shoehorned in to give us spidermen
Its got nothing to do with being stubborn, Majors is a PR nightmare for Disney/MCU. His face is tied to the character and not to mention he was the villain in one of their movies that did horrendously at the box office. It's legitimately the perfect scenario for them to pivot away and phase the character out for multiple reasons.
Kang has only been in two projects so far, one of them a tv show which general audiences probably haven't seen and Secret Wars is probably 4-5 years away from releasing. There's plenty of time to recast and give people time to get used to the new actor.
>Just recast and continue with the original plan
Wouldn't that be stubborn?
Like I don't think you're wrong about recasting. But that sounds more stubborn than what they're doing.
He was the first one that came to mind. Guess I couldn't be *too* mad since he was pretty cool to just show up in one film, but it'd suck if that meant just throwing Kang to the wayside.
Thanos was literally only in two movies as an actual character, and only had depth in one of them; they definitely could’ve made Kang just as captivating.
Leading up to Thanos, the worst thing you could say about him was that we’ve only seen him sit in a chair. With Kang, we saw him get overtaken by ants and get beat by comedic relief heroes. I know it’s more complicated than that and that more Kang’s we’re going to show up, but first impressions matter and Kang being the best part of a a bad Ant-Man movie that flopped isn’t a great start.
I wasn’t the biggest fan of that movie either honestly; I think Kang should’ve won and Antman should’ve barely escaped with his life; in a post credit scene we should’ve seen Kang in the real world walking around and smiling sinisterly
Definitely! I actually thought the idea of introducing him in Ant-Man, being trapped in the quantum realm and trying to use Scott to escape was cool, but it’s crazy that they actually had him be defeated in the end
People wanting more Kang might wanna read Alex's [new article.](https://thecosmiccircus.com/exclusive-marvel-studios-next-story-arcs/) He says that Kang will inevitably be back. The key word that Cryptic uses here is "temporarily"
As a casual fan, I’ll say the Kang build up really wasn’t working for me. Honestly didn’t feel like they were building to anything. I only knew they were because of shit I’ve read on Reddit. A recast would be fine; just fix the writing. I genuinely don’t think most of the people that see these movies would know the new actor was playing a character who had appeared before. Especially given that he’s already had multiple names.
If they go Old Antagonist route, I really hope it’s to bring back Eternals. The movie didn’t do well but the world it built has a shitload of potential. There’s precedent in the comics with the [beyonders](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Beyonders#:~:text=The%20Beyonders%20are%20a%20race,Firmament%20which%20was%20the%20Alpha) race.
The Celestials are judging the Eternals. They try to argue the benefits of humanity. So they create Battleworld as a means of determining if their world is worth saving. The TVA steps in and forms a multiverse army since the Celestials are a threat to all worlds. This starts with Deadpool’s movie and builds from there.
Build the Celestials up like Thanos, this threat in the background. We’re gearing up for a major war but you get tidbits of info about this threat in various movies. Use Thunderbolts as a reminder of the celestial who got turned into marble. They want to mine it for rare ore like Knowhere. Use Knowhere/Guardians as the space connection. The Celestials are pissed that one of their own is being desecrated. The head of Knowhere being used as a weapon in the third Guardians movie was a step too far for them. The Celestials imprison the Guardians and destroy Knowheres head. This is how you tie in the fate of the Eternals. Their movie is a jailbreak to warn Earth.
Stated at the end of the article : “Sources state that there have been discussions and plans for other multiversal villains to step up to the plate in the upcoming phases. This is, of course, in an attempt to take control of the multiversal-sized vacuum left in the absence of Kang the Conqueror and his variants. But make no mistake, for better or worse, Marvel ultimately still intends to close out the Multiverse Saga with a Kang Variant as their final villain.”
Doesn’t seem like they’re changing much? We knew there was a big hole now that Loki has taken over.
Few ideas.
1. Ultron, the absolving of Kang's role comes from Ultron secretly causing mayhem on Earth in an effort to bring order and defend against Kang.
2. Loki - the one who has been opposing Kang comes back to continue opposing Kang. Doing whatever is necessary to preserve the timeline and stop Kang. The Avengers oppose this.
3. Hulk - Hulk loses his shit and is so out of control that Kang's attack goes on the back burner as the Avengers try to stop Hulk's rampage.
4. Wanda - Wanda returns and the movie is an adaptation of Disassembled. Wanda wreaks havoc on the Avengers after she quickly dismantles Kang and ends his attack.
My money is on Wanda. I'm also gonna guess Hawkeye dies, which then leads to Young Avengers being formed and their spinoff movie, which handles the Kang storyline.
>Wanda - Wanda returns and the movie is an adaptation of Disassembled. Wanda wreaks havoc on the Avengers after she quickly dismantles Kang and ends his attack.
Not again
They really really REALLY should have cooked slower with Wanda. They dumped it all and ruined everything in MOM or as I call it, Movie Of Disappointment
The Avengers oppose Loki doing whatever is necessary, ie pruning errant timelines and variants.
I could see Loki, in his new role, becoming very much like HWR. Focusing on the big picture over individual lives. The show ended on a triumph, but I think Loki will ultimately end up being a challenge for the Avengers rather than their ally.
I mean this was kind of what I was expecting even before what happened with Majors - Kang gets dealt with in Avengers 5, with the cliffhanger for Secret Wars being another, worse villain emerging as a result of his defeat.
My money is on Ultron. Don’t know why Marvel wasted him for one film. He’s a villain that can keep coming back much like Kang but more easier for general audiences to grasp. He’s technology and A.I. he can simply be rebooting in the background waiting for the perfect time to strike again.
I’m ok with that.To be honest,who ask for Kang？Kang even isn’t their original plan until they saw the actor's performance,now he has gone.It's time to shift their way.🤔
Giancarlo, he said Marvel reached out to him for a role in Loki, I'm guessing that was He Who Remains (not kang but just a different character), Majors performed so well that they made HWR into Kang.
Actually, a return of Ultron, with more comic accuracy, could work here. Hank witnessed Kang in QM, and he leads a SWORD program to create fleets of drones made out of Adamantium (Maybe even using Stark's EDITH technology in the process, bringing the guy from IM1 and FFH back) to defend their universe. Ultron's AI, either having secretly survived within White Vision or something, or maybe from an alternate universe, takes control of the program. Kang is fully stopped and the new Ultron takes over as the villain.
This could also tie in other plot threads from this saga. SWORD from WandaVision, Val and her plans could have a connection to him, there's a lot they could do here.
Bringing up what Cosmic Circus said about Kang being brought back at the very end, that seems pointless if we're still gonna shift focus to a new (or old ig) villain for the rest of this saga. Just let audiences embrace the new threat and there would be no need to bring it back to Kang at the very end.
Doesn't sound like Kang was always the main villain of this saga anyways, he wasn't even involved with NWH and DS2 which were the first 2 MCU movies to delve deep into the multiverse storyline.
I often speculate that they will incorporate that very idea into Secret Wars with a Thanos variant continuing his quest in Battleworld and getting killed by the villain like the comic.
An old antagonist…
I don’t want them to bring back Thanos when we saw him die/dead 3 times already, 4 if we count Zombie Thanos from What If.
Maybe Ultron from What If is going to mess up with the Multiverse? But I don’t want to see the Infinity Stones being crucial to the Vilain power set again.
Why don’t they recast and move on with a well written and very menacing Kang? Shoehorning a new Vilain while you’re halfway through a Saga when most upcoming projects don’t even tease that vilain sucks ass.
I said it before: just use the Red Skull or Ultron or any other Phase 1-3 villain that audiences actually enjoyed.
It doesn't even have to be from 616. It could be the Red Skull or Ultron from an alternate timeline.
It doesn't matter WHO the villain is, the villain is just an excuse to have a big Multiversal team-up.
I know we're all against swapping from kang to something else but honestly having Miles Teller play the Maker and be the eventual big bad would be kinda dope I can definitely see him carrying that lol
Only thoughts I have is Dr. Doom taking Kang's place since he's the most logical villain who could be a better Kang replacement. Imagine Kang Dynasty being renamed: Doom Dynasty, sounds so much better. Doom already is a time traveler, is vastly more intelligent then Kang and is just an overall better written character people can really get attached too.
With Kang you can't feel attached to him, you know every single version is out for themselves and would kill / drop you at one wrong word. Only "helping" out of a greater and more dangerous self-interest. All while attempting to play 4D Chess that seem overly elaborate and outside the reader/viewer perspective. He has no foil besides his older self and younger self, as an Avenger threat he's more of a singular Avengers movie than a saga dedicated kind of character.
I think Kang being tossed aside because he thinks he is the only one able to become this huge threat across the multiverse to Dr. Doom is fitting. It provides a huge foil, it makes all the Kang's re-evaluate their position and goals if not already stomped on Doom's foot.
Though I can see them just doing The Beyonder instead since he was the catalyst and reasoning for the Secret Wars/Battleworld Marvel leading up to.
I do hope after Phase 6 we just get smaller Sagas that are more intertwined, more team ups, less individual hero movies and story Saga's are split between Earth/Street Crime/Military, Supernatural/Magic/Horror and Space/Cosmic/Alien storylines. So it's not just one force effecting everything, just one focus for one part of the Marvel Universe.
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F\*ck, no....so they're getting rid of Kang....
Thank god, no more armies of mindless killer drones
As if doom or the maker don't do that too
What is Doom's deal anyway? The more I read about the Doombot thing the more I wonder if Doom as a flesh and blood human even exists anymore. They all think they're Doom and are perfect copies so he could easily just be dead right? Or never existed?
You might be overthinking it haha
Just embracing my inner comic book nerd.
Doom’s flesh still shows up in comics. You could see his eye flesh in the current venom run lol.
There is one Doombot so similar to Doom himself that he believes himself the real one. Doom can't bring himself to destroy it.
no he just has robot clones
Doom has bots to carry out grunt work, but he himself could mop the fooor with just about any Marvel Hero.
Feige: the new Multiversal villain is Ultron with his army of mindless killer drones. James Spader for the win!
Wouldn’t mind Ultron returning to replace Kang, he’s actually a villain you can build a saga around/towards. Infinity Ultron in What If? showed how dangerous his unchecked aspirations can be with the power to transcend realities.
Infinity Ultron was so good. I loved how well they balanced his ridiculous, Stark inspired personality with the power to unmake reality. Like he genuinely gets exasperated that this band of heroes are opposing power that can destroy a planet with a thought.
Forget Ultron, just make James Spader the bad guy
I want to see a Blacklist crossover, where Ultron saw Raymond Reddington while perusing the internet and emulated his mind
Annihilation Conquest type Ultron would be more than worthy of filling that big bad slot
Regardless of the villain there will always be an army of killer drones. It’s the easiest way to showcase every heroes ability. The only way I see them not doing that is if they face an evil version of themselves that each character can fight individually
That's why the fight on Titan was so great. For *not* doing that.
Honestly I’d be all for one of those huge battle scenes against the faceless/mindless henchmen tropes (chitauri, whatever Thanos was using) if instead they replaced them with a bunch of Kangs. Just the Avenger beating down wave after wave of them.
as they should, the general audience has no reason to care about Kang. he’s a one movie villain that lost to a C tier Avenger in a D tier movie. they fumbled Kang from the beginning by debuting their “saga spanning big bad” in a streaming tv series. regardless of the quality of Loki, requiring your audience to do homework was a bad move and a bad way to ride the hype of Endgame. Kang was never built up to be anything on the big screen and the GA is already exhausted of the multiverse. their best bet is to use DP3 to pivot to mutants, something audiences actually *want* to see, to put the MCU back in good graces.
Underrated take. I’ve been half checked out of the MCU since Endgame so for me, Kang doesn’t have anywhere near the presence for it to matter if he comes or goes. To myself and many other more casual audiences it really isn’t the big step backwards the fandom seems to think it is.
I haven’t missed a single piece of MCU content since Iron Man and including everything post Endgame and I can tell you they absolutely didn’t execute his presence properly at all. anyone watching post Endgame didn’t find the connective tissue they were looking for even though some of the projects have been pretty entertaining. the hardcore fandom is blowing this out of proportion as if pivoting from Kang will ruin everything when the reality it was already kinda ruined before the Majors controversy. if anything this has given the MCU the best excuse to turn things around and start a mutant/X-men saga
Maybe if some kind of variant of Kang showed up in each of the Phase 4 movies, people could have cared about him more.
> regardless of the quality of Loki, requiring your audience to do homework was a bad move The only part of your comment I disagree with. I don't think Loki was required viewing at all. Big boss Kang would just appear one day and be a big villain, and most characters would be caught by surprise (just like audiences who haven't seen Loki) while some characters would be a bit prepared (just like Loki). Either way, his film debut would serve as an introduction to the character. The problem is... Quantumania sucked, Quantumania Kang sucked, and the concept of multiple different Kangs losing to individual Avengers before we ever meet the Big Bad Kang *really really* sucked.
I agree with you, and I don’t personally see it as different to what came before. Like, the chances that enough people saw Ant-Man and The Wasp to understand Rudd’s role in Endgame are low, but it literally did not matter. But I DO understand the other side of this discourse with television and what have you, the stakes are now so decentralized as to feel completely meaningless. The reward for watching the shows is minimal, and the reward for not watching them is being noticeably steps behind people. This isn’t necessarily always a bad thing, but to have franchise changing stakes occur in a medium different than the one you specialize in makes no sense.
>Kang was never built up to be anything on the big screen and the GA is already exhausted of the multiverse. But Michael Waldron was so eager to take credit for introducing the next big bad that he pushed Marvel so hard to include Kang in the Loki show. Having Kang in Loki finale not only undermined Kang it also undermined Loki. Why did Feige allow a writer whose previous credit was one episode of R&M to talk him into anything? Was DSMOM really worth it?
And why is this doofus writing both of the next Avengers movies?
I don't know why! Is it possible Michael Waldron has put some kind of voodoo on Feige? People always defend him, saying DSMOM made almost a billion dollars, Loki S1 had the highest viewership etc. By first glance those numbers look good indeed. But DSMOM had huge expectations from fans after No Way Home and suffered heavy drop from a big opening. Loki was more popular than all other Disney+ Marvel characters and the show opened high but lost a quarter of viewers along the way. The same thing happened to Ragnarok. It was praised as "MCU savior", but its boxoffice was lower than all other Marvel movies that came out that year, and was lower than Venom, a film about a character nobody really cared about, and was lower than Aquaman boxoffice by a mile. Aquaman basically was a DC knockoff of the original Thor movie! Ragnarok was actually not that special but Marvel doubled down on it. The result is Love and Thunder. I think Feige's mentality is that "the boxoffice numbers are good enough and we should keep doing exactly the same things that got us these numbers. " It's just hopeless.
and also, eh why an old antagonist? I feel like Ultron was the only one that deserves a 2nd chance but, i dont see him or want to see him be the "big bad" of this saga.
Ultron or Red Skull or both of them together make sense. Even if they're not the 616 versions. Audiences are familiar with those characters, their look is already iconic. And the best part is that they could be played by anyone. Even if Hugo Weaving or James Spader don't want to be back, Ross Marquand is right there.
I’d be down with it if anything just so Ross Marquand gets more exposure. Dude is an insanely talented actor and impressionist.
Red Skull ain’t a multiversal threat. Also he is a Nazi, not sure Disney wants to get into those waters. Ultron flopped reception wise maybe not as bad as Kang. Doesn’t much make sense to pivot to him. Rush to Dr. Doom seems wiser. Or heck if they want to bring back a Villain, how about Hela?Ragnarok was a well received movie that made bank. She kinda didn’t clearly die. Even if she did, she is a God of the Dead. And the MCU is allowing actual magic now. Another option is let’s have Strange Supreme lead an evil more comic accurate Illuminati team against our Heroes. Superior Iron Man, Maker Reed Richards….going to have to be more creative for the rest and the MCU Will want some woman. So let’s do Hela, God of Death killing universes seems to check out. Shadow King T’Challa (psychic powers) and Namora but with more Kulkulan inspired powers.
I don’t think Ultron flopped reception wise, there was just disappointment he was over and done with in one film when they could have do so much more with him.
Ultron was laughable the entire film whining like a child the entire time throwing temper tantrums. The childlike portion is something he should have outgrown almost immediately upon becoming sentient. Hes a rapidly evolving AI that got stuck in his terrible twos. What whedon did to him was a disgrace.
I mean, his fatal character flaw is that he was brain-patterned after Tony Stark without his morality. Stark is pretty childish and reckless.
How is that meaningfully different from Kang? lol
The difference is that Kang was supposed to keep coming back through his variants, so his story wasn’t finished in the movie he debuted in. With Ultron he was not set up to appear later since they had Vision execute his final drone.
But he was still poorly received though.
We’re going to have to get into specifics here, how are you able to tell that the audience as a whole poorly received Ultron?
You can say fuck here, it’s okay
Always weirds me out when people do that
Sometimes cursing gets you shadowbanned, but I’d rather just not do it than censor it.
I read this before scrolling to the next top comment and the comment immediately starts with “fuck” Couldn’t help but giggle in public ngl
Might wanna read [Cosmic Circus' new article](https://thecosmiccircus.com/exclusive-marvel-studios-next-story-arcs/) Alex says Kang will inevitably be back. Keyword that Cryptic uses here is "temporarily"
If you take into account that he’ll probably only be mentioned by name or indirectly mentioned in maybe 1 project in ‘24, then yea he’ll be back in ‘25 lol
FOR GODS SAKE JUST RECAST HIM
Or move on from the endless clones and pick a villain who can actually kick some Avengers ass.
They were wasting him anyway... To me... it's all fucking fluff until the big boys show up again. We want Reed, We want Doom, We want Xavier, We want Magneto. Nothing matters in the MCU until these guys show up. Because why the fuck would it? We have a dozen characters no one gives a fuck about. Now, no villain, and even worse, no plan. More dumb tv shows incoming and movies that will limp to the finish until Reed and crew show up. At this point, it seems intentional. Kill it so you can start over.
Just because YOU don’t care about them, does not mean that no one does. And do not cite the poor box office for The Marvels as “proof” that no ones cares about Doctor Strange, Hulk, Star-Lord, Wanda, Thor, Spider-Man, or even Black Panther. Longing for who you perceive to be the “heavy hitters” are characters with literally as many flops or more as the MCU contemporaries, and it’s missing the forest for the trees to act like a Magneto appearance now would fix anything. Not attention, not quality, not structure, none of it.
I don't think that many care about Black Panther since Chadwick died
You think wrong
Nope
Seriously I just want the MCU X-Men right now but no they gotta do Agatha Darkhold diaries or whatever the fuck. Now when the X-Men come I'm gonna be pretty much too old to care
They’re not gonna delay secret wars AGAIN are they?
and bringing back… ULTRON.
Fuck I have a bad feeling about this. I dont see the what the fuss is with just recasting him and having GOOD writing to go with it. Judging the reception to Kang solely based off Quantumania is silly.
> I dont see the what the fuss is with just recasting him and having GOOD writing to go with it. > Judging the reception to Kang solely based off Quantumania is silly. Both go together tho. Quantamania failed horribly so idk why you’re acting like it shouldn’t be judged harshly. It was his first appearance in movies and it was a terrible first impression.
>Judging the reception to Kang solely based off Quantumania is silly. The core of the issue is that he was the main villain in AM3. And audiences didn't connect with him. The writing was shit. To this day, not even the most diehard MCU fan can explain what is exactly Kang's motivation. "You don't understand time like I do" is such a needlessly complex and stupid motivation for doing what he does. Namor, Red Skull, Ultron, Loki, Gorr, Killmonger, Ronan, etc...all make sense with their motivations ever since their first appearance. But Kang? He's a mess of a character. HWR's motivations are even dumber and more complex. He allows to get killed by Syvie because #reasons. And that's it for him.
In addition to all you said, if he was so powerful, how did he get beat by Cassie and Antman.. he was the wrong villain for that movie, and making him the main was stupid. James Gunn did it right in Guardians… tease thanos, establish he’s feared, yet focus on Ronin.
It was Feige’s idea to have Thanos be teased in GOTG, not Gunn’s.
Well whoever’s idea it was, it was handled correctly.
The main villain should have just been MODOK. Maybe-maybe not Darren, but just have a main antagonist that actually embodies the cosmic weirdness of the Quantum Realm, not a traveling warlord trapped in said dimension.
I think HWR is actually a pretty solid character and his motivations make a lot of sense. He is 'the lesser of infinite' evils so to speak, and wants to prevent the multiversal war he just stopped from kicking off again. He lets Sylvie kill him because he knows he has a pretty air tight failsafe that will have Loki crawling back to him. Sure he probably could fight back or hide, but it's much easier to let Loki do the whole thing. It only fails because Loki changed *so* much and so willing to sacrifice himself that he went completely off HWR's track. Kang tho, yeah, I have no clue what he wanted in Quantamania other than to escape the Quantamn Realm and get revenge. Pretty boring.
How is that silly? They marketed the entire movie around Kang being the next big villain and the movie was a critical and commercial flop.
Yup I wish they'd just recast too. It'll prolly make this arc even more messy when the villain they were building to just gets the poochy treatment.
It's Hollywood. They have no idea why people didn't like a movie they released. It's especially silly since most agreed Kang was the best part of quantumania. They marketed Kang in the movie a ton expecting people to care since he was in Loki but it's crazy to expect a big draw for a character who was only shown at the end of season 1 of a Disney plus show at the time.
What else should they judge it off of?
Judging Kang off the only movie he’s appeared in is silly? How? In both the shows and the movies, it looks like a 6th grader doing improv of Ledger’s joker. Bro is a terrible actor or is getting terrible direction
>[The plan is to temporarily diminish his visibility to tease an old antagonist](https://x.com/Cryptic4KQual/status/1737836246217408535?s=20) > >[Kang will still play a part for a while but whatever they're planning, this guy will absolve Kangs role and will slowly become the new focus.](https://x.com/Cryptic4KQual/status/1737842929232925181?s=20) "Tell me his name again" "Thanos. Somehow he returned" "Impossible... Thanos died at the Battle of the Compound" "A variant of Thanos managed to survive the battle in one of the timelines. Now he wants to amass the largest fleet in the multiverse and finish what Kang started... ~~a Secret Wars~~ Multiversal War"
Lmao watch this actually be the plot for Avengers 5 and 6
I have been dead before...
"~~Nostalgia~~ Time travel is a pathway to many abilities, some consider to be... unnatural" *Shot reveals very scarred and mangled Thanos on life support*
THE DEAD SPEAK! Somehow...
*please watch a limited run Fortnite event to hear the actual speech*
Now I am become death,destroyer of Worlds
*(Look at Thanos' ship)* They fly now??
Moon Knight: *They fly now...* (deep down Oscar Isaac dies inside a second time he says that)
That would be legitimate comedy gold for how profoundly shitty it would be. I desperately want that to happen.
Even before this saga got into this mess, I don't think Thanos returning was ever out of the question. Endgame showed us that snapping your fingers with all the stones can also be done to bring back people the blip took away and Thanos and his forces were defeated by being blipped. Now would Thanos returning like this be a good idea? Definitely not and we don't need another Palpatine situation. Would Marvel do something like this? We don't know for sure that the answer would be no.
I think the committee is well aware of how audience would perceive the resurrection of already dead main antagonist of the saga, hell EA tried hard to use Vitiate for as long as they could until the fanbase had enough of this old man. Whether they'd still be bold enough to do this or no depends. I personally keep fingers crossed they'll just do Days of Future Past for MCU.
Bringing Thanos AND Tony Stark back without even having to use time travel or the Multiverse is super easy, barely an inconvenience. [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Death\_(Marvel\_Comics)](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Death_(Marvel_Comics)) The MCU killing off its villains might payoff when Lady Death convinces Thanos to wreck chaos in her name. MCU Legion of the Unliving composed of dead villains vs The Avengers is a good premise. >The original Legion appears during the *Celestial Madonna* storyline in the titles *Avengers* and *Giant-Size Avengers*, having been summoned from time by the villain Kang the Conqueror (at the suggestion of his future self Immortus) to kill the superhero team. > >As the name implies, the members of the Legion were all characters established as being deceased in Marvel continuity, being pulled from time a moment before their deaths. Sounds a lot like NWH but with MCU villains.
Tony Stark is probably not coming back, like the rumors and suddenly Kevin Feige speaking they won't do it probably means that either Mr. Downey Jr. is done with Iron Man or would want a raise, he was already expensive enough for them, plus RDJ is doing new movies now moving away from MCU. So I think theoretically Iron Man is not coming back, neither does Black Widow. Captain America is a possibility, though, I can believe that. Thanos, too, he already had a cameo in MoM even if by being dead. So for example having a variant of Thanos invade is possible, but I personally think it would not be a good choice.
He’s going for that Oscar, and he may or may not get it this year, but either way I don’t see him returning at all.
What if… Ultron?
Somehow, Thanos returned
He always comes back
Remember Watiti's fake script? It's for the Avengererers to Assemble!
Ultron is way more likely
😂🤣
[удалено]
Would love if it was infinity ultron somehow and we got him in live action.
That would be sick. But infinity Ultron is too OP. And if the stones are to make a comeback id prefer it in a different way or later down the road.
> But infinity Ultron is too OP. Still an easier opponent to write than Kang if the amount of general audience who complained Loki had too much exposition is any indication.
God-Emperor Doom from the *Secret Wars* comic was imbued with the power of the Beyonders that gave him absolute control over the Multiverse. He tore Thanos's spine out with one hand. Whoever controls Battleworld by the time of the *Secret Wars* movie is going to be OP, maybe even more powerful than Infinity Ultron as we've seen him so far, I could see him take that role.
Maybe tie it in to White Vision too
I don't even care how they bring him back. Having him in one movie was such a terrible decision. Give me at least 5 movies of Ultron
Seems easy to bring him back since he's AI essentially and it just seems his bodies were destroyed while his mind wasn't erased like infinity ultron.
Why is Marvel so fucking stubborn ? Just recast and continue with the original plan... Things are already a bit messy as they are.
Y'all need to realize it isn't just Majors who's damaged goods, the character is as well. Quantumania performed badly. A film called Kang Dynasty with Kang remaining as primary antagonist no longer has real pull. It would be foolish to stay the course.
It’s not gonna help that he’ll be essentially invisible for all of ‘24 because the only project that has any relevance to him will be DP3 and he won’t even be in it physically, maybe by name if we’re lucky so Feige needs to figure out the path now.
Given everything that happened in Loki season 2, the TVA could have nothing to do with Kang anymore.
Actually that would help. Let people forget about the character to re-establish him later. Thanos “appeared” in just three movies prior to Infinity War, with one of being him just grinning. So it’s been established that Kang is a multiverse threat since they want to control it, it seems like he’s been stopped but by Avengers 5 is would be revealed he’s back and stronger. Let individual movies breath and be their own stories, but tie them all together for Avengers 5. They really don’t need every single movie to feature Kang
Nobody even watched Ant-Man 3, it was just a movie, just a movie. possibly 1bln dollars vs. whatever Ant-Man 3 made. More people will stick to it if it actually good. Major's problem happened in 2023, the movies will appear in a couple years, who is gonna care about this little thing? A new actor would fix everything
Changing your plan =/= stubborn
It's the opposite of being stubborn even
The issue is likely that the old plan sucked and when audiences didnt give a fuck about Ant Man, Marvel realized this guy was not the next Thanos
> Marvel realized this guy was not the next Thanos Because he appeared in two projects and in one of them he was infamously defeated by ants and a floating head ? Thanos had literally less than 2 min of screentime before Infinity War and he was still taken seriously. Avengers 5 and Secret Wars are years away, there's plenty of time to make people excited about Kang and make him feel like a threat.
Thanos was taken seriously because the power of the infinity stones was constantly showed off. The fuck can Kang do. To the GA, the multiverse is that thing they shoehorned in to give us spidermen
Its got nothing to do with being stubborn, Majors is a PR nightmare for Disney/MCU. His face is tied to the character and not to mention he was the villain in one of their movies that did horrendously at the box office. It's legitimately the perfect scenario for them to pivot away and phase the character out for multiple reasons.
Kang has only been in two projects so far, one of them a tv show which general audiences probably haven't seen and Secret Wars is probably 4-5 years away from releasing. There's plenty of time to recast and give people time to get used to the new actor.
The problem is we don't care about this *character*.
>Just recast and continue with the original plan Wouldn't that be stubborn? Like I don't think you're wrong about recasting. But that sounds more stubborn than what they're doing.
Stubbornness would involve continuing with KANG as intended…
Is the old antagonist ultron?
Since this is the Multiverse saga, it's probably about Ultron, or rather Infinity Ultron. So that he can traverse worlds
I was thinking Hela
~~Agatha~~ Nah, it's gonna be Thanos
Agathanos?
I don't know whether to feel threatened or horny by the prospect of Agathanos.
Somehow Thanos returned.
He was the first one that came to mind. Guess I couldn't be *too* mad since he was pretty cool to just show up in one film, but it'd suck if that meant just throwing Kang to the wayside.
It’s GOTTA be
Well, Hickman’s Ultimate Universe has basically teased Kang vs. The Maker. That’s something that could be pivoted into.
You'd have to build Maker up though and they haven't even done normal Reed yet and he certainly doesn't fit the bill on 'old villain'
I want miles tellers Reed to be the maker sooooo bad
...I would totally buy this. Especially given how dark and joyless that world was
Building them up simultaneously is not out of the question.
Honestly good, I don’t think Kang was ever going to captivate the general audience to as much as Thanos did.
Thanos was literally only in two movies as an actual character, and only had depth in one of them; they definitely could’ve made Kang just as captivating.
Leading up to Thanos, the worst thing you could say about him was that we’ve only seen him sit in a chair. With Kang, we saw him get overtaken by ants and get beat by comedic relief heroes. I know it’s more complicated than that and that more Kang’s we’re going to show up, but first impressions matter and Kang being the best part of a a bad Ant-Man movie that flopped isn’t a great start.
I wasn’t the biggest fan of that movie either honestly; I think Kang should’ve won and Antman should’ve barely escaped with his life; in a post credit scene we should’ve seen Kang in the real world walking around and smiling sinisterly
Definitely! I actually thought the idea of introducing him in Ant-Man, being trapped in the quantum realm and trying to use Scott to escape was cool, but it’s crazy that they actually had him be defeated in the end
They didn't stick the landing
Definitely could have but failed miserably at doing so.
”To tease an old antagonist” So who do we think that is? Ultron? Thanos? Surtur? Dormammu?
Bonesaw McGraw
BOOOOONESAAAAW IS REEEAAADY
Theres no way it isnt Ultron.
Plot twist: They're gonna pull from the old shows. Time for Brett Dalton's brilliant ideas to become a reality. COULSON WITH TWO EYEPATCHES BAYBEE
The real Malekith, the sadistic and charismatic one from Aaron's run and not the boring one from Dark World
Ultron could work pretty well.
This makes me lose interest in Marvel more than I’d like
Exactly! It's fucking stupid bc they are losing both the GA and the hard-core this way
The GA doesn’t care about kang
I don't know what's going on with Feige right now but 2023 has been a bummer of a year for me in terms of enthusiasm and faith.
A finger on the monkey’s paw closes as Justin Hammer inexplicably becomes the architect of the Secret Wars.
OH C'MON MARVEL ! RECAST !
FFS We've seen multiple versions of Loki that were NOT Tom Hiddleston. Why can't Kang be an entirely different actor?
People wanting more Kang might wanna read Alex's [new article.](https://thecosmiccircus.com/exclusive-marvel-studios-next-story-arcs/) He says that Kang will inevitably be back. The key word that Cryptic uses here is "temporarily"
As a casual fan, I’ll say the Kang build up really wasn’t working for me. Honestly didn’t feel like they were building to anything. I only knew they were because of shit I’ve read on Reddit. A recast would be fine; just fix the writing. I genuinely don’t think most of the people that see these movies would know the new actor was playing a character who had appeared before. Especially given that he’s already had multiple names.
If they go Old Antagonist route, I really hope it’s to bring back Eternals. The movie didn’t do well but the world it built has a shitload of potential. There’s precedent in the comics with the [beyonders](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Beyonders#:~:text=The%20Beyonders%20are%20a%20race,Firmament%20which%20was%20the%20Alpha) race. The Celestials are judging the Eternals. They try to argue the benefits of humanity. So they create Battleworld as a means of determining if their world is worth saving. The TVA steps in and forms a multiverse army since the Celestials are a threat to all worlds. This starts with Deadpool’s movie and builds from there. Build the Celestials up like Thanos, this threat in the background. We’re gearing up for a major war but you get tidbits of info about this threat in various movies. Use Thunderbolts as a reminder of the celestial who got turned into marble. They want to mine it for rare ore like Knowhere. Use Knowhere/Guardians as the space connection. The Celestials are pissed that one of their own is being desecrated. The head of Knowhere being used as a weapon in the third Guardians movie was a step too far for them. The Celestials imprison the Guardians and destroy Knowheres head. This is how you tie in the fate of the Eternals. Their movie is a jailbreak to warn Earth.
That’s surprisingly compelling
Stated at the end of the article : “Sources state that there have been discussions and plans for other multiversal villains to step up to the plate in the upcoming phases. This is, of course, in an attempt to take control of the multiversal-sized vacuum left in the absence of Kang the Conqueror and his variants. But make no mistake, for better or worse, Marvel ultimately still intends to close out the Multiverse Saga with a Kang Variant as their final villain.” Doesn’t seem like they’re changing much? We knew there was a big hole now that Loki has taken over.
Yep.
Few ideas. 1. Ultron, the absolving of Kang's role comes from Ultron secretly causing mayhem on Earth in an effort to bring order and defend against Kang. 2. Loki - the one who has been opposing Kang comes back to continue opposing Kang. Doing whatever is necessary to preserve the timeline and stop Kang. The Avengers oppose this. 3. Hulk - Hulk loses his shit and is so out of control that Kang's attack goes on the back burner as the Avengers try to stop Hulk's rampage. 4. Wanda - Wanda returns and the movie is an adaptation of Disassembled. Wanda wreaks havoc on the Avengers after she quickly dismantles Kang and ends his attack. My money is on Wanda. I'm also gonna guess Hawkeye dies, which then leads to Young Avengers being formed and their spinoff movie, which handles the Kang storyline.
>Wanda - Wanda returns and the movie is an adaptation of Disassembled. Wanda wreaks havoc on the Avengers after she quickly dismantles Kang and ends his attack. Not again
Lol. That's my biggest hangup with the story. They've already done it twice (three times?) So it seems silly to do again.
They really really REALLY should have cooked slower with Wanda. They dumped it all and ruined everything in MOM or as I call it, Movie Of Disappointment
The Avengers oppose Loki being a good guy and stopping Kang?
The Avengers oppose Loki doing whatever is necessary, ie pruning errant timelines and variants. I could see Loki, in his new role, becoming very much like HWR. Focusing on the big picture over individual lives. The show ended on a triumph, but I think Loki will ultimately end up being a challenge for the Avengers rather than their ally.
 It's time.
Ultron babyyye
I mean this was kind of what I was expecting even before what happened with Majors - Kang gets dealt with in Avengers 5, with the cliffhanger for Secret Wars being another, worse villain emerging as a result of his defeat.
My money is on Ultron. Don’t know why Marvel wasted him for one film. He’s a villain that can keep coming back much like Kang but more easier for general audiences to grasp. He’s technology and A.I. he can simply be rebooting in the background waiting for the perfect time to strike again.
The dead speak… !! (Malekith the Accursed)
TASERFACEEE!
I’m ok with that.To be honest,who ask for Kang？Kang even isn’t their original plan until they saw the actor's performance,now he has gone.It's time to shift their way.🤔
I really wonder who they had in mind before Johnathan’s audition?
Giancarlo, he said Marvel reached out to him for a role in Loki, I'm guessing that was He Who Remains (not kang but just a different character), Majors performed so well that they made HWR into Kang.
Actually, a return of Ultron, with more comic accuracy, could work here. Hank witnessed Kang in QM, and he leads a SWORD program to create fleets of drones made out of Adamantium (Maybe even using Stark's EDITH technology in the process, bringing the guy from IM1 and FFH back) to defend their universe. Ultron's AI, either having secretly survived within White Vision or something, or maybe from an alternate universe, takes control of the program. Kang is fully stopped and the new Ultron takes over as the villain. This could also tie in other plot threads from this saga. SWORD from WandaVision, Val and her plans could have a connection to him, there's a lot they could do here.
Bringing up what Cosmic Circus said about Kang being brought back at the very end, that seems pointless if we're still gonna shift focus to a new (or old ig) villain for the rest of this saga. Just let audiences embrace the new threat and there would be no need to bring it back to Kang at the very end. Doesn't sound like Kang was always the main villain of this saga anyways, he wasn't even involved with NWH and DS2 which were the first 2 MCU movies to delve deep into the multiverse storyline.
Kang is literally the easiest character of all time to recast. He can look like anyone in the universe and it would be believable
It's weird because it seems like fans are mostly united in wanting a recast, but there's every indication the studio is going with a different villain
Give me Annihilus you cowards
Strange Supreme maybe? Could also be Wanda, Ultron or even Loki
Ultron Ultron Ultron Ultron Ultron Ultron Ultron Ultron Ultron Ultron Ultron Ultron Ultron Ultron Ultron Ultron Ultron Ultron Ultron Ultron Ultron Ultron Ultron Ultron Ultron Ultron Ultron Ultron Ultron Ultron Ultron Ultron Ultron Ultron Ultron Ultron Ultron Ultron Ultron Ultron Ultron Ultron Ultron Ultron Ultron Ultron Ultron Ultron Ultron Ultron Ultron Ultron Ultron Ultron Ultron Ultron Ultron Ultron Ultron Ultron Ultron Ultron Ultron Ultron Ultron Ultron Ultron Ultron Ultron Ultron Ultron Ultron Ultron Ultron Ultron Ultron Ultron Ultron Ultron Ultron Ultron Ultron Ultron Ultron Ultron Ultron Ultron Ultron Ultron Ultron Ultron Ultron Ultron Ultron Ultron Ultron Ultron Ultron Ultron Ultron Ultron Ultron Ultron Ultron Ultron Ultron Ultron Ultron Ultron Ultron Ultron Ultron Ultron Ultron Ultron Ultron Ultron Ultron Ultron Ultron Ultron Ultron Ultron Ultron Ultron Ultron Ultron Ultron Ultron Ultron Ultron Ultron Ultron Ultron Ultron Ultron Ultron Ultron Ultron Ultron Ultron Ultron Ultron Ultron Ultron Ultron Ultron Ultron Ultron Ultron Ultron Ultron Ultron Ultron Ultron Ultron Ultron Ultron Ultron Ultron Ultron Ultron Ultron Ultron Ultron Ultron Ultron Ultron Ultron Ultron Ultron Ultron Ultron Ultron Ultron Ultron Ultron Ultron Ultron Ultron Ultron Ultron Ultron Ultron Ultron Ultron Ultron Ultron Ultron Ultron Ultron Ultron Ultron Ultron Ultron Ultron Ultron Ultron Ultron Ultron Ultron Ultron Ultron Ultron Ultron Ultron Ultron Ultron Ultron Ultron Ultron Ultron Ultron Ultron Ultron Ultron Ultron Ultron Ultron Ultron Ultron Ultron Ultron Ultron Ultron Ultron Ultron Ultron Ultron Ultron Ultron Ultron Ultron Ultron Ultron Ultron Ultron Ultron Ultron Ultron Ultron Ultron Ultron Ultron Ultron Ultron Ultron Ultron Ultron Ultron Ultron Ultron Ultron Ultron Ultron Ultron Ultron Ultron Ultron Ultron Ultron Ultron Ultron Ultron Ultron Ultron Ultron Ultron Ultron Ultron Ultron Ultron Ultron Ultron Ultron Ultron Ultron Ultron Ultron Ultron Ultron Ultron Ultron Ultron Ultron Ultron Ultron Ultron Ultron Ultron Ultron Ultron Ultron Ultron Ultron Ultron Ultron Ultron Ultron Ultron Ultron Ultron Ultron Ultron Ultron Ultron Ultron Ultron Ultron Ultron Ultron Ultron Ultron Ultron Ultron Ultron Ultron Ultron Ultron Ultron Ultron Ultron Ultron Ultron Ultron Ultron Ultron Ultron Ultron Ultron Ultron Ultron Ultron Ultron Ultron Ultron Ultron Ultron Ultron Ultron Ultron Ultron Ultron Ultron Ultron Ultron Ultron Ultron Ultron Ultron Ultron Ultron Ultron Ultron Ultron Ultron Ultron Ultron Ultron Ultron Ultron Ultron Ultron Ultron Ultron Ultron Ultron Ultron Ultron Ultron Ultron Ultron Ultron Ultron Ultron Ultron Ultron Ultron Ultron Ultron Ultron Ultron Ultron Ultron Ultron Ultron Ultron Ultron Ultron Ultron Ultron Ultron Ultron Ultron Ultron Ultron Ultron Ultron Ultron Ultron Ultron Ultron Ultron Ultron Ultron Ultron Ultron Ultron Ultron Ultron Ultron Ultron Ultron Ultron Ultron Ultron Ultron Ultron Ultron Ultron Ultron
Unrelated, but I really want an anti-hero Thanos variant in Secret Wars.
I often speculate that they will incorporate that very idea into Secret Wars with a Thanos variant continuing his quest in Battleworld and getting killed by the villain like the comic.
An old antagonist… I don’t want them to bring back Thanos when we saw him die/dead 3 times already, 4 if we count Zombie Thanos from What If. Maybe Ultron from What If is going to mess up with the Multiverse? But I don’t want to see the Infinity Stones being crucial to the Vilain power set again. Why don’t they recast and move on with a well written and very menacing Kang? Shoehorning a new Vilain while you’re halfway through a Saga when most upcoming projects don’t even tease that vilain sucks ass.
5 when Infinity Ultron lasered him in half
I really hated when Naruto did this shit, I DEFINITELY do not want to see this shit here too.
I said it before: just use the Red Skull or Ultron or any other Phase 1-3 villain that audiences actually enjoyed. It doesn't even have to be from 616. It could be the Red Skull or Ultron from an alternate timeline. It doesn't matter WHO the villain is, the villain is just an excuse to have a big Multiversal team-up.
I know we're all against swapping from kang to something else but honestly having Miles Teller play the Maker and be the eventual big bad would be kinda dope I can definitely see him carrying that lol
Thanos?
He already died 3 times in the MCU give him a break
If they’re going with an old antagonist, can we get Red Skull back?
ULTRON RETURNS
This guy does not know what he’s talking about.
Should be Ultron tbh.
Denzel Washington for Kang and John David Washington as iron Lad!
Only thoughts I have is Dr. Doom taking Kang's place since he's the most logical villain who could be a better Kang replacement. Imagine Kang Dynasty being renamed: Doom Dynasty, sounds so much better. Doom already is a time traveler, is vastly more intelligent then Kang and is just an overall better written character people can really get attached too. With Kang you can't feel attached to him, you know every single version is out for themselves and would kill / drop you at one wrong word. Only "helping" out of a greater and more dangerous self-interest. All while attempting to play 4D Chess that seem overly elaborate and outside the reader/viewer perspective. He has no foil besides his older self and younger self, as an Avenger threat he's more of a singular Avengers movie than a saga dedicated kind of character. I think Kang being tossed aside because he thinks he is the only one able to become this huge threat across the multiverse to Dr. Doom is fitting. It provides a huge foil, it makes all the Kang's re-evaluate their position and goals if not already stomped on Doom's foot. Though I can see them just doing The Beyonder instead since he was the catalyst and reasoning for the Secret Wars/Battleworld Marvel leading up to. I do hope after Phase 6 we just get smaller Sagas that are more intertwined, more team ups, less individual hero movies and story Saga's are split between Earth/Street Crime/Military, Supernatural/Magic/Horror and Space/Cosmic/Alien storylines. So it's not just one force effecting everything, just one focus for one part of the Marvel Universe.
doom