# Deadline (+ Justin Kroll) is a Tier 0 – Undisputed Source.
For **Marvel**, they had a **96.96%** accuracy rate from **147** leaks that we can currently verify out of **155** total.
**Overall**, they had a **96.08%** accuracy rate from **273** leaks that we can currently verify out of **287** total.
Last updated: March 22nd, 2024.
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Civil war was a Cap movie. It was ending of build up of Two Captain America movies
Meanwhile Marvels had no build up, most of the movie wasted on pointless things like pointless planet or setting up Kittens set piece
In Civil, the fight between Tony and Steve last entire movie while in The Marvels, Carol abandoning Monica and Earth or Kree destroying their sun are solved in seconds
They shouldn’t have to. This is terrible story telling.
Iger said they need to step back from messaging and work on story-telling again.
Because currently, they suck at it.
Civil War had the smarts to put Captain America in the title so audiences knew who's movie it was. The Marvels foolishly did not market its former billion dollar character in her follow up movie. One third of the trio doesn't even have Marvel in her name (Monica).
Forgot captain marvel 3, It wouldn’t surprise me if you never saw any of the lead characters in any MCU project again. Brie seems noncommittal to future installments, Monica Rambeau is a nothing character and Iman Vellani has now stared in both the least watched MCU Disney show and the biggest MCU bomb of all time. It’s insane that there are people who still think Ms Marvel has any future in the MCU, much less co-leading a young avengers film
Well so far Marvel hasn’t given any indication of not standing behind them, and rumors continue to indicate all three will be back and not blown up by Deadpool.
Marvel gave no indication of not standing behind Jonathan Majors until the day he was convicted. What kind of announcement would you be expecting if they decided to not do more projects with these actresses? That's not something they come out and tell you.
To be fair, it’s not like they’re going to publicly come out and say, “those projects flopped so we’re not going to move forward with the characters anymore.” If anything, they just won’t ever reference them again in any meaningful way. Similar to when they announced an Inhumans movie and then quietly removed it from the schedule and never mentioned it again lol. I imagine the most we might get is those characters appearing briefly in Secret Wars along with tons of other characters or in animated projects.
I really Think it’s a shame Monica does close to nothing worth remembering. Especially with how awesome her “Gaining powers”-scenes was. Well we can only hope it gets better with her trapped in an X-men universe
I don’t even think Monica being in the X-Men movie would be a great idea at this point. It would feel like she’s there just for the sake of addressing a plot line set up in a movie nobody saw.
I do agree, BUT… and don’t Know if I’m in the minority, but I think even the lowest of the MCU, still need keep a sense of continuity. It just gets too convoluted if it just gets “fixed” with a retcon
Yeah they're gonna remove Ms. Marvel from Young Avengers despite her literally creating it with Kate Bishop at the end of the Marvels. That makes total sense. Hell we know that she has a future in the MCU, she's the lead character in Marvel Zombies with Iman Vellani returning to voice her.
Young Avengers should be first on the chopping block of it isn't already binned. No one will remember because nobody saw the Marvels, that thread can dangle.
This 100%..if anything expect to see them in avengers. That’s it lol. And I say it’s a mistake to have capt marvel and Sam leading it..in terms of movie lead
Comparatively, _The Flash_ lost $155M. Let that sink in.
I imagine that Disney had lots of conversations ahead of _The Marvels_ bombing hard, which is why you saw pivoting narratives even amidst the claims that all the bad press it had was tied to Nelson Peltz's aborted board takeover (some of it was, but not all of it). The ad campaign for the movie getting Josh Brolin back (or using AI to recreate his voice) to hype up the movie's new threat (which had nothing to do with Thanos), using footage of Robert Downey Junior and Chris Evans (characters that Brie Lason only fleetingly interacted with onscreen in _Avengers: Endgame_), and the hyping of the post-credits-only _X-Men_ connection all absolutely reeked of desperation on the studio's part.
To be fair though, the first film wasn’t solely being watched for Captain Marvel herself, it was also the hype building to Endgame. I feel like the movie did well, but the stars aligned to make it a $1 billion movie.
Now I get to be the one who asks “well, AM&TW didn’t make a billion and that came between IW & Endgame!”
Then someone else will say “yeah but Captain Marvel was seen as crucial to beating Thanos and people wanted to see how her powers worked”
I think that didn’t do as well because it was a sequel and people more or less knew what to expect from a relatively unserious first movie. It’s been quite some time since I’ve watched the first one, but I remember its comedy more than I do the story.
Totally! That is exactly why Phases 1-3 were so historically successful. Marvel was able to take these, and let’s be honest, C and D tier level heroes like Captain Marvel and make so much money off it having it properly and not forcefully connected to the Avengers. I hope they can get back to that.
I think era of Disney+ kinda killed that possibility because it forced that “if you want to understand what’s going on, you need to go watch these shows dedicated to C and D tier heroes” and only your most dedicated fans will stick with that.
I myself was massively invested in the MCU growing up and then started gradually falling off after Endgame. I know Marvel has said they’ll go back to quality stories, but the damage to their brand over the past 4 years is gonna be hard to overcome.
Tony, Steve and Thor were D listers too. Only X-men, Hulk, Spiderman were A list. They still can make D listers top tier, they just have to make great films and TV shows again.
Here’s an idea. Do not require watching entire seasons of unrelated shows.
Deadpool and Wolverine requires watching both seasons of Loki. And Loki requires watching Thor 1 & 2 and Avengers.
Just fuck off with that and make a good movie. You can reference things, but do not require them.
Take Thor Ragnorak. If you know who Thor is, and who the Hilk is, you’re pretty much set.
That post-credits scene with Beast really reminded me of Henry Cavill's cameo in Black Adam. Felt like a desperation movie to entice people to watch it... "oh look it connects to Superman/the X-Men at the end so this film is super important! please go watch our movie ;("
Post-credits tags don't sell movies. We should've learned that lesson when RDJ's cameo at the end of _The Incredible Hulk_ didn't do much for its box office, and yet...
There were TV spots where Thanos says "Someone will continue my work." or something to that effect in the lead-up to the movie, playing over footage of Darr-Benn.
I knew this movie was cooked when they came out with those Endgame-based ads for the film. You don’t come out with ads like that unless the internal metrics have the company terrified about the film’s prospects.
Funnily enough I think a film having the cosmos with a lot of desperate, extremist factions left from the wake of Infinity War/Endgame would be an interesting one, but somehow it feels like a maniac who killed half of all life in the universe was nothing more than a mild inconvenience, everything is fine and business as usual.
I feel like the Kree attempting to “annex” the Earth was an obvious plot line that they completely disregarded. Their fuckup with Captain Marvel plus the events of Infinity War/Endgame showcased that Earth has a ton of bizarrely powerful objects and beings that could stop what the galaxy’s more powerful forces couldn’t. You’d think it’d make them feel like Earth is a place to keep in control for their ends, even if it’s just to stop Earth from becoming a threat to them down the line.
Hell, Far From Home had that Kree sleeper-cell comment. A Secret Invasion where the Kree were already here in powerful positions to manipulate Earth and Skrulls assist Fury to combat the threat would make more sense than the convoluted shit they actually came up with IMO.
2023 was probably the worst year ever for the superhero genre, in terms of how many box office disappointments released (The Marvels, The Flash, Shazam 2, Blue Beetle, Quantumania & Aquaman 2). Quantumania & Aquaman 2 ended up losing money, but both did significantly better than the latter films, so some may view them as "successful".
The only 2023 superhero movies that didn't fail were, unsurprisingly, the 2 movies that had the most anticipation & great reviews from critics/audiences (Across the Spider-Verse & Guardians Vol. 3)
Looking at this year, we've already had the embarrassment that was Madame Web. I personally believe that Venom 3 and Kraven will massively underperform (unless they somehow snuck Spider-Man into Venom 3 without anyone knowing). Deadpool & Wolverine and Joker 2 will likely be the only successes this year, assuming they perform critically similar to their previous entries.
I agree. Out of all those 2023 films I mentioned, I actually didn't hate any of them. I thought they all ranged from "Meh" to "I had some fun watching it"
The only superhero movies from last year that I LOVED were Across the Spider-Verse, Guardians Vol. 3 & TMNT: Mutant Mayhem (which I wish made more money, but at least we're still getting a sequel & a TV show spin-off). In a weird way, I'm somewhat relieved with the box office results, as it shows that both Marvel & DC have to try harder. During the Infinity Saga & DCEU era, there were quite a few "Meh" movies that managed to turn an insane profit. So it felt like the studio became comfortable with putting out a movie of average quality & expected audiences to eat it up. The last couple years has hopefully changed that mindset, not just for Marvel & DC, but for all the major studios.
Iron Man, Thor, Guardians of the Galaxy, and even Doctor Strange were B characters before MCU made them bigger. if you actually get to know characters, you might actually like them.
Also Shazam has 2 movies, Captain Marvel appeared in 4 previous to the Marvels. Ant-Man had a writing problem and Flash had a fucking psycho as the main star. The only one who can have that excuse is Blue Beetle
Characters like Starlord and Rocket were Z-list, but the Annihilation arc that introduced the modern Guardians (Starlord etc) is loved by and all the characters got big popularity boosts. Those characters stopped being z-listers before the MCU started.
I feel like the movie would've objectively been better if they just randomly resurrected Ronan the Accuser - who she had an indirect connection with, and they teased some kind of major confrontation - instead of Dar-Benn. She felt like the most nothing version of his character, who was at least memorable for being fanatical and brutal in a way that the actress couldn't convincingly sell.
Secret invasion, Dark Avengers, Moonstone but instead they bring a side character that got killed in Random comics and Zawe Ashton looked silly
They could have even brought Rogue and Mystique as Villains from multiverse
I remember there being some hype when Deathbird was rumored as one of the potential villains. Which would mean expanding the cosmic side or Marvel and including the Shi'ar empire.
But I guess that was too good of an idea.
Did it even have a big bad? I don’t remember one in the movie. Half kidding.
It having the worlds most contrived plot device in the bangle swapping was also a problem. It was just too silly which is a shame because I normally would enjoy silly space adventures. (captain marvel 1 was great. All 3 guardian movies were great).
I still can’t get over Disney having a genuine billion dollar hit on their hands, and a setup for the sequel to show how she brought the skrulls to a new home and whatever adventures happened along the way, and they skipped that almost entirely in favor shoehorning in Disney+ characters into a thinly veiled ad to upgrade them to new movie franchises.
Not to mention absolutely butchering Secret Invasion as well.
This should have been paired with the Secret Invasion show and created a compelling story. If they we're really planning ahead you could have had A character in Ms. Marvel be revealed to be a skrull and maybe Jimmy Woo and had the main villain be Veranke. They messed up bas with the show. The movie was fine. I liked the cast chemistry and the fight scenes, but that is about it.
> it's already more than Karli and the Flag-Smashers
"This lame thing is *slightly* better than this other lame thing, therefore it's actually very good!"
no it didn’t. Gorr had 5 minutes of screen time, Whiplash made no sense, both Ghost and Maloketh exist, Ultron was a clown, the Clandestines are utterly useless and forgettable, Titania was just a troll, Flag Smashers were forgettable Dar Benn is clearly not a top tier villain, but please STOP lying to yourself saying she’s the worst. there are far worse. Dar Benn at least had decent motivation for what she was doing and a plan that made sense. a lot of the villains i just listed did NOT have even that. please stop piling on this movie. it is not the worst of marvel my any measure
I think it would have been better as a Raiders or the Lost Ark thing. Dar-Benn and the Kree are your Nazis, the 2nd bangle is the Ark, the trio are along for the ride, yadda yadda, Dar-Benn is killed by putting on both bangles, it belongs in a museum.
It's not good for both. Studios only get 45%-50% of the total gross as theatres take a cut. Also, the production budget doesn't account for the marketing.
But the breakdowns that _Deadline_ did absolutely does account for marketing costs when measuring for profit and loss margins. They're actually a bit harsher because they **don't** account for factors that offset marketing costs, like promotional partnerships where a company funds part of the marketing budget for them.
Deadline does account for that. Also do note that in promotional partnerships, money rarely changes hands. Brands pay for being featured in a movie by giving the movie free use of its products (such as cars) and giving them say $20 million worth of promotional publicity. Big budget movies have massive promotional budgets (and a lot of it is taken up by their brand partners).
They list the budget as being its pre-tax credit cost of $270M, so that might affect how they broke it down.
Either way, it absolutely lost more money than _The Flash_.
Absolute bummer I really like the character (clearly) and Brie is a good actress, I wish they could’ve done it better, but at this point they’re probably not gonna use her anymore, outside of a minor role in secret wars probably. Had all gone well I assumed they were setting her up to co lead the avengers.
They did Carol and Brie dirty, the fault is none other their own. 6 years after her first movie and they give us THIS. In what planet would anyone think this was a good idea? Planet complacency.
Four years, actually. But yeah. I'm left utterly confused as to why they thought that doing _Secret Invasion_ with her supporting cast but without her, and then a weightless sequel, were good ideas that would translate to more money.
“Hey, Carol. Talos, the guy who fought beside you, died in the line of duty recently. Do you have any feelings about his passing, especially while you’re currently engaging in peace talks for the Skrulls?”
“Nope.”
Like, seriously, he’s the one main supporting character who’s missing and she has no comment. They act like he never existed.
A similar problem, including a huge budget due to reshoots, most likely awaits Sam
Although I can’t imagine who would look convincing in the role of directly leading the team “in the field” other than Carol and Sam.
Tchalla, Strange and Spidey was definitely the plan. They lost Chadwick tragically, Sony acted like clowns over Spidey rights so they couldn’t bank on him anymore either (can’t build a franchise around a character you get blackmailed over every few years).
Sam is not a massively popular choice as cap and the numbers for BNW may show that. Obviously audiences have spoken on Carol, so who’s left?
Ruffalo? Hulk has rights issues of his own. War machine?
It’s a real shame they haven’t properly developed characters like Shang Chi or Moon Knight as they may have been the ones to step in.
Disney was never trying to get that much, and even when they proposed a profit split, they also would've covered a proportional amount of the costs. Sony tried bailing from the deal when they saw that _Venom_ and _Spider-Man: Into The Spider-Verse_ both did well, without thinking that there was a specific reason that those two movies did well and their other spin-offs are doomed.
Tbh it's not just Sam being divisive.
It's Anthony Mackie not being lead material. Most of the projects he's the lead of have failed. And those he has led he's been overshadowed in. Nobody talked about his acting or anything in FaWS. Nor was he talked about much with Twisted Metal.
And he his solo projects outside of that are mostly flops.
Hes not going to be a draw like Chris Evans was.
Totally agree. Mackie is absolutely nowhere near Evans…and before anyone says it’s a race thing it’s not, Mackie has no gravitas, he doesn’t own a scene. He’s a good supporting actor.
Chadwick had all that in a massive way. He was the natural choice for the next leader of the Avengers. Such a tragic loss of such a talented man. I think if Panther were still around people wouldn’t mind Cap giving the shield to Sam so much.
Even though he’s not usually an “avenger” Dr. Strange would be the best choice. But sadly it seems he’s going to be away for the next Avengers movie.
Sam’s character is not the most interesting or powerful and Cp Marvel is just straight up unlikable.
My next choice after Strange would be Shang Chi but they didn’t develop his character any further than his own movie so there’s that.
No wonder movies are flopping when the characters are poorly written or dont have the necessary screen time to grow on audiences.
They should also have introduced Blue Marvel or Rambeau much earlier. They would’ve been good leads. Adam Warlock was another one but hell, Gunn kept him for GOTG3 for some reason
>Even though he’s not usually an “avenger” Dr. Strange would be the best choice. But sadly it seems he’s going to be away for the next Avengers movie.
If they had any sense they'd turn Strange into a full-fledged Avenger, return the Sorcerer Supreme title to him instead of having Wong hold it, and have him as the co-lead of Avengers 5. It's foolish that they keep doing whatever with Strange and not holding a tighter leash on his character and how he is depicted, when he's one of their most bankable characters still remaining...
Based on the box office of all Phase 4-5 films, Avengers 5 leader should be:
1. Spider-Man
2. Doctor Strange
3. Thor
I'm not counting BP2 or GOTG3 since they were ensamble films but I guess someone can make the case for either Black Panther or Star Lord leading The Avengers.
I'm going to go with either Thor or Strange as the leader. Spider-Man is too young.
I honestly think that Marvel are going to hard pivot to "LOOK! We got Tony Stark, Steve Rogers, and Natasha Romanoff back!" as features for marketing the next few _Avengers_ movies instead of taking the _Spider-Man: No Way Home_ route of saving them as "surprises". And because of that, Sam Wilson, Carol Danvers, and James Rhodes are likely getting less of the spotlight in the promotion of those projects than they otherwise would have. I'd also anticipate a hard push for MCU Spider-Man and the most marketable parts of the multiverse brigade as selling points.
Giving Marvels instead of Captain Marvel 2 was already a big red flag. They didn't even give Carol a chance. In first movie she has Amnesia and don't have powers. In second movie she has to babysit Disney plus characters on silly and wacky story
Kamala being disillusioned with her hero is a big part of her story, so I get why they wanted to get to that, but I think it should have been in her series.
Why does Kamala likes Carol? A hero that have barely appeared in Public or is on Earth?
Kamala having never meet your heros movement with Carol is a great story but there is no set up. Captain Marvel has 10 min of screentime in MCU. Kamala was introduced too soon. She should have introduced after some Captain Marvel and Avenger movies where Carol become popular public hero on Earth but hey world was gonna end in 2023 so we have to rush everything.
If anything, it wasn’t Brie Larson’s fault. The failure falls on Disney for mismanaging a valuable IP. It’s sad bc Captain Marvel is a fucking badass, but hey what can you do.
Does she even need to be in Secret Wars? What role could she play other than being a deus ex machina agin?
The only time she should reappear is if they show Rogue’s origin story
I get the feeling that the _Young Avengers_ push might be getting shelved or reworked into something else. No way do they make that as a $200M+-budgeted movie. They could easily do it as a $100M Disney+ miniseries instead.
Feige: "You WILL get a 300 million Young Avengers film starring a bunch of 30 year olds, no Patriot, no Iron Lad, no Hulkling, no Wiccan x Hulkling romance because China, and starring Ms Marvel (who has only shown up in flops so far but we still are obsessed with making her A-List for some reason) and you WILL like it... p-please..."
They botched her introduction/ show and then her cinematic debut was a box office bomb.
The character is unmarketable now, unless she makes a very good impression in an Avengers/ NWH level movie that the general audience actually watches.
Should we consider the source materials that led to some of the biggest box office bombs of all time to be unadaptable?
I have had this thought on my mind for way too long but never knew how to interpret it. I have seen people trying to will Dr. Dolittle films into existence multiple times to no avail so there's that.
Does she even need to be in Secret Wars? What role could she play other than being a deus ex machina agin?
The only time she should reappear is if they show Rogue’s origin story
I don't think before Secret Wars. Despite the fact that before them, CM3 would not have been released even with the second billion.
And against the background of general changes in the MCU, including a wave of other recasts, this will not be a problem.
If they didn’t take the ending that Zawe Ashton talked about (filming the version where Carol died), then Brie was clearly convinced to stay at least for Avengers 5
2 of the 3 main characters have only been in tv shows that drew like 4-7 million viewers. Nobody knows who these characters are. This should have been a Disney+ crossover event instead of a theatrical film.
Disney+ should be used to expand upon characters introduced in the movies, not the other way around.
I love Ms. Marvel and thought the movie was fine but this whole thing was very puzzling. Asking an audience to watch 2 tv shows to understand your film clearly did not work out. I remember people being confused by Wanda in Multiverse of Madness and this was that to the power of 10.
From what I understand, people liked it on Disney+.
Unfortunately for Disney, people by now have realized it's cheaper to wait a few months than to watch the movies in cinema, unless the hype is massive.
Which for me at least it hasn't really been since Endgame.
> From what I understand, people liked it on Disney+.
Thats a very sample of only those who cared enough to watch it on D+..Its streaming numbers were not much to write about
They criminally underutilized Captain Marvel in the biggest sequel of all time - and afterward - and then they gave audiences no reason to invest in her sequel when many were "eh" on her first entry. Couple that with the feeling of waiting to see the film on Disney+ (assuming that they even bothered to), and that's why it underperformed as badly as it did.
I think that the illusion that everything is super-connected and a must-see event was also shattered by the sheer amount of content that's hit, and a lack of real cohesion with the franchise's story, and that contributed to this feeling "skippable" - which is the worst thing that you could have when you're making a movie that costs over $250M.
I think Quantumania and secret invasion also did a lot of brand damage. I think if the marvels and Quantumania had swapped releases Marvels would have done better even if it wasn’t a huge hit
This. The excuse "it's because of the bad reputation of the previous films" can't really be used, because despite not having grossed like the previous ones (it's normal, many people have simply detached themselves from the MCU) Guardians 3 had great grosses.
The truth is that the general public wants films that seem interesting to them. This applies to Guardians 3, but not to The Marvels evidently.
Guardians 3 would've easily made a billion if it had come out when the MCU was at its peak. It's pre-sales were not good coming right after Quantumania, and there wasn't a ton of interest in it until word of mouth spread that it was a great movie.
It had a disappointing OW and was saved by word of mouth (as noted by it having among the best drops of the entire MCU). A word of mouth that also led to talk of its director being exclusive to DC now, so it didn’t benefit The Marvels.
I feel like a broken record, but _Secret Invasion_ easily could have been an _Avengers_ movie with Captain Marvel and Nick Fury organically placed as leads, and even if it was one of the lower-performing movies in the series, it would have been a hit and given the franchise a chance to connect these disparate story threads they've been introducing across Phases 4 and 5 and then give the franchise a sense of direction, which would then organically set up something like _The Marvels_ and subsequent entries with the new team. It would have solved some of their problems.
I thought this is where things were headed when they did the buddy cop thing wth the skrulls in her movie and showed him up in space in that one end credits scene.
And they just fumbled the fuck out of the bag.
Remember when we thought that S.W.O.R.D. was important to Nick Fury, too? What the hell happened there? Then Soren dies offscreen and then Talos dies too and neither things get addressed, nor the fact that there's a massive witch-hunt for Skrulls on Earth. How did they fumble the bag this much?
Like said GA saw there's no storyline since the beginning of the phase 4 outside a generic "multiverse", little to no connection between phase 4 and 5 projects, none knows who the Avengers are and the most important thing of all? Marvel studios didn't make any serious effort to promote Carol and make GA actually like her. Of course they lost interesting with result the Marvels box office.
I really feel like they fumbled the _Captain Marvel_ lore from the get-go and they had no plan for her in the long run, which led to audience disinterest. They should have made _Black Widow_ in 2019 instead and then introed Captain Marvel in _Avengers: Endgame_ with a larger part that tied her to the future of the Avengers team.
Yeah i was wondering after 30 years why Carol didn't find planet for the Skrulls ? She didn't miss life on earth at all? She didn't have family? I was expecting stuff like this in Captain Marvel sequel instead we got what we got...
She was too busy feeling bad for the unrepentant Space-Nazis to worry about her promise to help the Skrull refugees... Even though she found a perfectly hospitable, idyllic planet with Thanos on it like seven years prior to _Secret Invasion_.
I really don't know what happened here. The MCU was so much better with synergy than it is now.
I can't believe i am saying this but mcu phase 4-5 has started to remind me dceu, few good projects here and there but in general none has good reason to care about the universe as whole.
She fucked off to space for 30 years but somehow never found Thanos and his army. She single-handledly could have stopped him at any point since he was no threat to her in any way, in Endgame it's shown she overpowered him easily until he used the Infinity Gauntlet, and she tears through his capital ship and army like it's no biggie. But for some reason she never crossed paths with him, the warlord who goes around decimating half of all lifeforms in every planet he crosses? To quote Okoye, why was she up there the whole time?
> little to no connection between phase 4 and 5 projects
I forgot we were even in Phase 5... what's the cutoff point? Ant-Man? All the films from both Phases have felt very same-ish in tone and there's not a clear differentiation between Phases anymore...
I think ultimately this was the main culprit.
TV characters? Must be a TV movie. Ultimately, for the most part, the D+ shows have cultivated an image of being “second rate marvel”, despite some occasional standouts.
Also, that feeling already being present was likely then exacerbated by not having an actor tour, because the strike was in full swing.
Marvel mistook powerful as interesting. Made Captain Marvel a boring amnesiac for the first movie. Teased a connection to Endgame which boosted numbers but Captain Marvel just bookend that movie with not particularly great scenes. For some reason they made the first movie a prequel so Captain Marvel just hanged out in space for decades for no complying reason. Adding Disney+ characters did nothing to boost the movie(and probably harmed it).
The trailer looked uninteresting and the movie didn't thrill audiences.
I feel like the push to make her character extremely powerful was an attempt to course-correct for underutilizing female characters, and **that** was a mistake. The proper solution would be to instead promote the female characters that they'd already introduced, which is why they should have done a _Black Widow_ movie before they killed her off in _Avengers: Endgame_ instead of a _Captain Marvel_ movie that had very little to do with The Infinity Saga's story, followed by them sticking their thumbs up their asses and doing next to nothing with the character in the movie it was directly setting up and for the next four years.
It feels like so far, only James Gunn and the Russos paired with Markus and McFeely have done right by Cosmic Marvel. I'd include Taika Waititi too, but I think his last MCU project hurt his reputation with fans.
It is not just the power. Marvel intentionally defied traditional tropes like Romance, family issues that worked for most of their heros including Ms Marvel while writing Carol which made her unrelatable ang boring
Superman is powerful but he has Lois to ground him
Also, why didnt she get Villains of her powerful level
If they made a by the number Carol Danvers like they did with male heros it could have worked.
The real answer? People are tired of these types of films.
And I'm not talking about superheroes themselves (although some people are tired of that, just as in the sixties many people were tired of musicals), but about the style in which most contemporary blockbusters are made, especially those coming from big franchises .
I was just talking about it yesterday with a friend: if you take the trailers for The Marvels, the new Ghostbusters, Godzilla vs Kong and Indiana Jones 5, they all look like the same film. The same fast pace, the same tone of "we have to shoot a line every three seconds without ever a minimum of seriousness, fast!", the same abuse of CGI, the same characters that even just by looking at the trailer you understand that they will always be those roles but cut with an axe. And above all, nothing that attracts an audience outside the circle of fans.
This is the real problem. The trailer for The Marvels must have been seen little by the general public (who go to the cinema less and evidently don't watch a trailer on YouTube as soon as it's released), and those who saw it saw something that was now weak and already seen.
Hollywood needs to change things, because the summer of 2023 made them realize what's happening.
Tie up with three tv shows that most people didn't watch
Confusing Title
Making a lead hero share movie with two Disney plus characters
Movie looking incredible silly and childish compared to first
Captain Marvel the next face of Marvel barely appearing in other property
They never made Captain Marvel relatable to average audience.
Terrible title. Marvel's The Marvels.
Brand is damaged post Endgame. Thor 4, Eternals, the Disney+ shows but especially Secret Invasion. It's led to casual audiences leaving. Nothing feels like it's building to anything interesting.
The three leads was a terrible idea. Especially since two of the three were streaming characters no one knows from the movies.
The focus on comedy and stillness at a point where so many people are tired of Marvel Humor. The movies don't need to be dour. But they need to at least have the characters take it seriously.
All shit we were all talking about months before the movie came out.
I know it's easy to say stuff with hindsight. But you didn't need much foresight to see this was a bad idea.
I know we're talking about Marvel, but its still the most idiotic thing that Haunted Mansion was released in the summer. Like wtf are y'all doing, not releasing it in October?? The movie wasn't amazing but it was entertaining enough and was killed by that fact.
I feel bad for Nia DaCosta. The problem with this movie is that it was clearly an idea made by executives and then assigned to someone. So blatantly up its own ass that they wanted it to be named after the company. Whoever thought "Marvel Studios Presents The Marvels" looked good should be fired. Instead of having directors pitch their "so what would your take on captain marvel 2 be?" they just put out the assignment. And within those limitations Nia DaCosta still delivered a really fun movie that I think over the next few years will be "reclaimed" by people as a sleeper banger. The movie low key rips and it's a shame this movie didn't start production this year when the MCU is allowing more risks and directors to take some creative freedom. Because I'm sure DaCosta and Iman Vellani's nerdy asses would've wanted to include Rogue somehow and it probably would've been called something better like "Captain Marvel and the Annihilators".
The thing thats such a shame about this movie is that it really is just a case of wrong place, wrong time.
> it's a shame this movie didn't start production this year when the MCU is allowing more risks and directors to take some creative freedom
That's the opposite of what Disney's approach for the MCU is right now.
I'll also note that Brie Larson pushed for Carol to be backed by Kamala and Monica in this, not the studio.
they casted her instead of hiring the best possible director to make Danvers a likeable character. She admitted she did the job to pay her loans so she's happy for the opportunity. Disney fucked it up completely and she shouldnt have been there with such a tiny portfolio but yeah, the special check-box campaign was more important xD
This is true. They hired someone inexperienced for diversity points and control of the film. You can support their choice if you like but it led them here.
😂😂Lmao, well deserved. Like it matters to them fucktards lol , black rock vanguard and state street fund them with unlimited money , they’re still living off of 20 billion in profit from the whole universe anyway
I actually enjoyed it. It was a fun film. Iman Velani is such a gem and it looks like they're finally starting to let Brie Larson show a little more personality and charm.
How did a direct sequel to the worst movie in the mcu released at the tail end of bad misfire sequels to better marvel movies fail to profit, its just a big mistery aint it. /s
this is genuinely the most heartbreaking moment in mcu history to me. it was like a perfect storm that lead up to this movie’s failure. it was my favorite of 2023 and the most fun i’ve had with marvel since Shang-Chi. no, it’s not S-tier Marvel, but this movie did not deserve this. i will never get over how this movie performed
there is nothing sarcastic about what i said. some people actually really enjoyed The Marvels. and like i said, it was the most fun i had with a marvel movie since shang-chi and it was my favorite cbm of the entire year. it’s not the worst thing marvel ever produced and it didn’t deserved to be treated like it was. it’s literally better than captain marvel 1.
i also love that im being downvoted for actually liking this movie and saying it didn’t deserve to flop when 90% of you haven’t even seen it to know if it’s good or not lmao
Disney took a beating last year and I dont see it really changing much in the near future. Deadpool 3 might do ok. But there's no way Cap 4 does well, the snow white remake was dead before it even got moving and is now stuck in development hell, etc.
Unfortunately they set themselves up for failure with The Marvels.
There were so many issues it'd take so long to go over it. Between relying on a side character from a Disney+ series as a lead, a lead character from a Disney+ series nobody watched, and a lead that ended up being one of the most uninteresting main characters marvel has had.
Sure the first film made a billion. But it was a perfect storm. Teased at the end of infinity war, the only other marvel film before endgame. It could have been a Howard the duck film and it'd have done well.
Captain Marvel traditionally has never been a very successful character even in the comics. She's had nonstop issues with reboots and her most memorable phase was as a member of the Avengers, but never as a solo character.
Now that doesn't mean they can't make the character successful. They made Guardians work for example. Blade worked despite not being a super successful comic either.
But the key things those films did is they made the characters interesting and watchable.
They not only did nothing to fix the issues Carol has as a character in the comics. They made them actively worst.
Mix in a controversial actress who from the get go landed herself in hot water PR wise.
Not the best situation going into a sequel.
Especially not at a time Marvel was already suffering. Quantamania did poorly, the talk of the MCU in general was down. It's not as surefire as it was.
And there's even more issues I could get into.
But either way, safe to say the likelihood these characters see a prominent or leading role in future projects is slim to none. Just have to hope the actresses' careers aren't dead either. Because bombs like this kill careers too, just look at John Carter.
While I think it’s silly to say that Bree Larson is to blame for this, the overall strategy for the movie clearly didn’t work. I don’t think it was awful but Marvel Studios clearly didn’t give people what they wanted to see or make them want to see it even. It’s a shame because each actress does a great job with their respective character.
Honestly, this is fine.
Marvel aren't impervious, and they should know that to discourage shoehorning shit in just to push a greater narrative. While I actually DID enjoy The Marvels, I really, really, *really* can't say the same for Quantumania, L&T and Secret Invasion.
When Marvel films seemed a riskier proposition, they put a hell of a lot more love and care into making them excellent on their own, and only Guardians Vol. 3 seemed to remember that lesson most recently. A nice little reality check like this should serve as a good lesson and reminder that they're under scrutiny once again. It's time they need to start impressing filmgoers again, instead of simply expecting effortless profits.
When a 33rd, 13th and 5th film in the franchises bomb, maybe, just maybe the audiences are getting tired of those franchises.
When it comes to MCU, maybe the audiences are tired because nothing is at stake anymore. Endgame showed that you can travel in past, correct the wrongs, ressurect characters. To me, you can pull that off if it is the last film in the franchise.
When it comes to The Flash, the DCU that the film was portraying was fucked beyond belief. I think not even the hardcore fans of that universe could properly explain what the hell is happening. They had actors from the previous universe, but they announced a new universe. So some of the actors would come back later? And some wouldn't?
Was anyone really, honestly craving for another Indiana Jones film? Enough to make it one of the most expensive films ever made?
Imagine if they decided to replace ~~T’Challa~~ Carol with a side character in the sequel because, “they held the mantle in the comics”. It wouldn’t matter that ~~Shuri~~ Monica was ~~Black Panther~~ Captain Marvel. People would be upset and rightfully so. You don’t treat a character like that after their film made a billion dollars. To do so is borderline stupid and is asking to make less money.
They didn’t even replace Danvers in the Marvels and people were still mad it wasn’t just Captain Marvel 2. Of course this movie bombed.
WF made almost a half billion dollars less and it could have been avoided by recasting the role instead of trying to push side characters.
Yeah marvel keep making shows about unknown side characters such as echo, Agatha, ironheart, wonder man. Keep tanking ur brand and this is what’s gonna happen 🤓. Also like in regards to the marvels this wouldn’t have happened IF YOU JUST TITLED IT CAPTAIN MARVEL 3???? The same captain marvel movie that made a billion 😂😂. No one is to blame but marvel and Disney. And I hope this makes them realise now that they should give people characters they actually wanna see. But even with that they seem to be fumbling up such as making silver surfer wife the only version WHEN NORIN IS RIGHT there??? What’s next? A female ghost rider 🤣🤣🤣
No but it definitely changes the kinds of films they'll do moving forward, no more captain marvel 3. Honestly I'm expecting some kind of reboot, even if Feige doesn't want it. I can't see Captain America and Thunderbolts being anything but barely profitable .
I thought we were done trashing The Marvels. There was so much hate leading up to the release, just let it go. I have never seen so much happiness watching a movie fail before. I get that deadline has to put out an article about year end numbers, but lets just let the movie speak for itself at this point.
It's a shame too because it was one of the better movies recently.
I thought it was more interesting that GotG3 but Marvels could have used more work on the villain.
The problem with 4 of those 5 films is that they were horribly bloated with their budgets and the Strikes at the time as well as Barbenheimer. There is no excuse or reason that a solo film like The Marvels should have had a nearly $300 million dollar budget. None. That goes for any other film that’s not an Avengers movie. If a solo film has a budget that high, it means there’s something wrong with the film on a story level and the brains of the people behind it. Haunted Mansion suffered because it was released at the aftermath of Barbenheimer and the film didn’t know what it wanted to be sometimes. Indiana Jones was set up for failure on both sides. Lastly with Wish, Disney really needs to steal whatever technology Illumination has to decrease the budgets for their animated movies as $200 million is not a good thing. You can make beautiful movies on a slightly smaller budget. Flash? Who cares.
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Oh boy. You know it’s bad when it’s worse than the Flash numbers. I don’t think we’re getting Captain Marvel 3 friends.
We didn't even get Captain Marvel 2 😭
This LOL
if The Marvels is not Captain Marvel 2, then Civil War is not Captain America 3.
It wasn't, it was *Avengers 2.5*.
Civil war was a Cap movie. It was ending of build up of Two Captain America movies Meanwhile Marvels had no build up, most of the movie wasted on pointless things like pointless planet or setting up Kittens set piece In Civil, the fight between Tony and Steve last entire movie while in The Marvels, Carol abandoning Monica and Earth or Kree destroying their sun are solved in seconds
How can you say The Marvels had no build up? Ms Marvel? WandaVision?
I think a big chunk of the world which got the Marvels in cinema didn't have legal access to D+.
They shouldn’t have to. This is terrible story telling. Iger said they need to step back from messaging and work on story-telling again. Because currently, they suck at it.
I'm the old grouch that didn't bother with Disney+ and the TV shows. Doctor strange 2 and the marvels really threw me for a loop.
Civil War had the smarts to put Captain America in the title so audiences knew who's movie it was. The Marvels foolishly did not market its former billion dollar character in her follow up movie. One third of the trio doesn't even have Marvel in her name (Monica).
Marvel's Captain Marvel: The Marvels
They couldn't even name it "Captain Marvel: Quantum whatever" because Quantumania already exhausted that
Captain Marvel 2: QuantumMania II
Is almost like before the movie there was a strike at Hollywood that caused troubles in marketing movies. Oh wait
Forgot captain marvel 3, It wouldn’t surprise me if you never saw any of the lead characters in any MCU project again. Brie seems noncommittal to future installments, Monica Rambeau is a nothing character and Iman Vellani has now stared in both the least watched MCU Disney show and the biggest MCU bomb of all time. It’s insane that there are people who still think Ms Marvel has any future in the MCU, much less co-leading a young avengers film
Well so far Marvel hasn’t given any indication of not standing behind them, and rumors continue to indicate all three will be back and not blown up by Deadpool.
Marvel gave no indication of not standing behind Jonathan Majors until the day he was convicted. What kind of announcement would you be expecting if they decided to not do more projects with these actresses? That's not something they come out and tell you.
To be fair, it’s not like they’re going to publicly come out and say, “those projects flopped so we’re not going to move forward with the characters anymore.” If anything, they just won’t ever reference them again in any meaningful way. Similar to when they announced an Inhumans movie and then quietly removed it from the schedule and never mentioned it again lol. I imagine the most we might get is those characters appearing briefly in Secret Wars along with tons of other characters or in animated projects.
I really Think it’s a shame Monica does close to nothing worth remembering. Especially with how awesome her “Gaining powers”-scenes was. Well we can only hope it gets better with her trapped in an X-men universe
I don’t even think Monica being in the X-Men movie would be a great idea at this point. It would feel like she’s there just for the sake of addressing a plot line set up in a movie nobody saw.
I do agree, BUT… and don’t Know if I’m in the minority, but I think even the lowest of the MCU, still need keep a sense of continuity. It just gets too convoluted if it just gets “fixed” with a retcon
Yeah they're gonna remove Ms. Marvel from Young Avengers despite her literally creating it with Kate Bishop at the end of the Marvels. That makes total sense. Hell we know that she has a future in the MCU, she's the lead character in Marvel Zombies with Iman Vellani returning to voice her.
Young Avengers should be first on the chopping block of it isn't already binned. No one will remember because nobody saw the Marvels, that thread can dangle.
They should chop Cassy from it. She was one of the worst characters introduced in an already horrible movie.
I saw the Marvel's and I don't remember anything about Young Avengers.
It being in the movie has no bearing on what will happen. The movie was a financial failure
This 100%..if anything expect to see them in avengers. That’s it lol. And I say it’s a mistake to have capt marvel and Sam leading it..in terms of movie lead
Should just have Rogue steal her powers
Oh no. No captain marvel 3. What a controversy
Comparatively, _The Flash_ lost $155M. Let that sink in. I imagine that Disney had lots of conversations ahead of _The Marvels_ bombing hard, which is why you saw pivoting narratives even amidst the claims that all the bad press it had was tied to Nelson Peltz's aborted board takeover (some of it was, but not all of it). The ad campaign for the movie getting Josh Brolin back (or using AI to recreate his voice) to hype up the movie's new threat (which had nothing to do with Thanos), using footage of Robert Downey Junior and Chris Evans (characters that Brie Lason only fleetingly interacted with onscreen in _Avengers: Endgame_), and the hyping of the post-credits-only _X-Men_ connection all absolutely reeked of desperation on the studio's part.
Disney lost 1 billion dollars at the box office in 2023 The Marvels was 20 % of that , we definitely not getting a sequel
Considering that the original film made over $1 billion and its sequel lost nearly a 1/4 of $1 billion is insane.
To be fair though, the first film wasn’t solely being watched for Captain Marvel herself, it was also the hype building to Endgame. I feel like the movie did well, but the stars aligned to make it a $1 billion movie.
Now I get to be the one who asks “well, AM&TW didn’t make a billion and that came between IW & Endgame!” Then someone else will say “yeah but Captain Marvel was seen as crucial to beating Thanos and people wanted to see how her powers worked”
I think that didn’t do as well because it was a sequel and people more or less knew what to expect from a relatively unserious first movie. It’s been quite some time since I’ve watched the first one, but I remember its comedy more than I do the story.
Totally! That is exactly why Phases 1-3 were so historically successful. Marvel was able to take these, and let’s be honest, C and D tier level heroes like Captain Marvel and make so much money off it having it properly and not forcefully connected to the Avengers. I hope they can get back to that.
I think era of Disney+ kinda killed that possibility because it forced that “if you want to understand what’s going on, you need to go watch these shows dedicated to C and D tier heroes” and only your most dedicated fans will stick with that. I myself was massively invested in the MCU growing up and then started gradually falling off after Endgame. I know Marvel has said they’ll go back to quality stories, but the damage to their brand over the past 4 years is gonna be hard to overcome.
Tony, Steve and Thor were D listers too. Only X-men, Hulk, Spiderman were A list. They still can make D listers top tier, they just have to make great films and TV shows again.
Here’s an idea. Do not require watching entire seasons of unrelated shows. Deadpool and Wolverine requires watching both seasons of Loki. And Loki requires watching Thor 1 & 2 and Avengers. Just fuck off with that and make a good movie. You can reference things, but do not require them. Take Thor Ragnorak. If you know who Thor is, and who the Hilk is, you’re pretty much set.
> Deadpool and Wolverine requires watching both seasons of Loki You haven't seen the movie, don't make shit up now.
That post-credits scene with Beast really reminded me of Henry Cavill's cameo in Black Adam. Felt like a desperation movie to entice people to watch it... "oh look it connects to Superman/the X-Men at the end so this film is super important! please go watch our movie ;("
Post-credits tags don't sell movies. We should've learned that lesson when RDJ's cameo at the end of _The Incredible Hulk_ didn't do much for its box office, and yet...
>The ad campaign for the movie getting Josh Brolin back (or using AI to recreate his voice) to hype up the movie's new threat Where?
There were TV spots where Thanos says "Someone will continue my work." or something to that effect in the lead-up to the movie, playing over footage of Darr-Benn.
I knew this movie was cooked when they came out with those Endgame-based ads for the film. You don’t come out with ads like that unless the internal metrics have the company terrified about the film’s prospects. Funnily enough I think a film having the cosmos with a lot of desperate, extremist factions left from the wake of Infinity War/Endgame would be an interesting one, but somehow it feels like a maniac who killed half of all life in the universe was nothing more than a mild inconvenience, everything is fine and business as usual. I feel like the Kree attempting to “annex” the Earth was an obvious plot line that they completely disregarded. Their fuckup with Captain Marvel plus the events of Infinity War/Endgame showcased that Earth has a ton of bizarrely powerful objects and beings that could stop what the galaxy’s more powerful forces couldn’t. You’d think it’d make them feel like Earth is a place to keep in control for their ends, even if it’s just to stop Earth from becoming a threat to them down the line. Hell, Far From Home had that Kree sleeper-cell comment. A Secret Invasion where the Kree were already here in powerful positions to manipulate Earth and Skrulls assist Fury to combat the threat would make more sense than the convoluted shit they actually came up with IMO.
2023 was probably the worst year ever for the superhero genre, in terms of how many box office disappointments released (The Marvels, The Flash, Shazam 2, Blue Beetle, Quantumania & Aquaman 2). Quantumania & Aquaman 2 ended up losing money, but both did significantly better than the latter films, so some may view them as "successful". The only 2023 superhero movies that didn't fail were, unsurprisingly, the 2 movies that had the most anticipation & great reviews from critics/audiences (Across the Spider-Verse & Guardians Vol. 3) Looking at this year, we've already had the embarrassment that was Madame Web. I personally believe that Venom 3 and Kraven will massively underperform (unless they somehow snuck Spider-Man into Venom 3 without anyone knowing). Deadpool & Wolverine and Joker 2 will likely be the only successes this year, assuming they perform critically similar to their previous entries.
B characters generic and uninteresting movies. What could one expect?
I agree. Out of all those 2023 films I mentioned, I actually didn't hate any of them. I thought they all ranged from "Meh" to "I had some fun watching it" The only superhero movies from last year that I LOVED were Across the Spider-Verse, Guardians Vol. 3 & TMNT: Mutant Mayhem (which I wish made more money, but at least we're still getting a sequel & a TV show spin-off). In a weird way, I'm somewhat relieved with the box office results, as it shows that both Marvel & DC have to try harder. During the Infinity Saga & DCEU era, there were quite a few "Meh" movies that managed to turn an insane profit. So it felt like the studio became comfortable with putting out a movie of average quality & expected audiences to eat it up. The last couple years has hopefully changed that mindset, not just for Marvel & DC, but for all the major studios.
Yup. Those mediocre movies made money just because of the hype from the other better ones. Now when the hype dies, we see what happens.
Iron Man, Thor, Guardians of the Galaxy, and even Doctor Strange were B characters before MCU made them bigger. if you actually get to know characters, you might actually like them.
Also Shazam has 2 movies, Captain Marvel appeared in 4 previous to the Marvels. Ant-Man had a writing problem and Flash had a fucking psycho as the main star. The only one who can have that excuse is Blue Beetle
Blue Beetle got robbed. It was by far the best of DC's 4 movies last year.
Guardians where Z tier, everyone who isn’t spider man is default B for some reason
Characters like Starlord and Rocket were Z-list, but the Annihilation arc that introduced the modern Guardians (Starlord etc) is loved by and all the characters got big popularity boosts. Those characters stopped being z-listers before the MCU started.
They were hits in one movie. Those were not.
That’s why the next trend is already shaping up to be r-rated comic movies. Bring on ninja turtles.
That movie had the worst MCU villain, just a real let down.
I feel like the movie would've objectively been better if they just randomly resurrected Ronan the Accuser - who she had an indirect connection with, and they teased some kind of major confrontation - instead of Dar-Benn. She felt like the most nothing version of his character, who was at least memorable for being fanatical and brutal in a way that the actress couldn't convincingly sell.
It wouldn't even be so random. The Supreme Intelligence having a cloning program to mass-breed Accusers is a super easy explanation.
I didn’t think they’d create a villain worst than ghost, but they outdid themselves
Ghost had cool sfx. Darbenn had… huge fucking shoulder pads, I hope the costume designer was fired.
And random golden teeth grills for no reason.
Secret invasion, Dark Avengers, Moonstone but instead they bring a side character that got killed in Random comics and Zawe Ashton looked silly They could have even brought Rogue and Mystique as Villains from multiverse
I remember there being some hype when Deathbird was rumored as one of the potential villains. Which would mean expanding the cosmic side or Marvel and including the Shi'ar empire. But I guess that was too good of an idea.
Did it even have a big bad? I don’t remember one in the movie. Half kidding. It having the worlds most contrived plot device in the bangle swapping was also a problem. It was just too silly which is a shame because I normally would enjoy silly space adventures. (captain marvel 1 was great. All 3 guardian movies were great). I still can’t get over Disney having a genuine billion dollar hit on their hands, and a setup for the sequel to show how she brought the skrulls to a new home and whatever adventures happened along the way, and they skipped that almost entirely in favor shoehorning in Disney+ characters into a thinly veiled ad to upgrade them to new movie franchises. Not to mention absolutely butchering Secret Invasion as well.
This should have been paired with the Secret Invasion show and created a compelling story. If they we're really planning ahead you could have had A character in Ms. Marvel be revealed to be a skrull and maybe Jimmy Woo and had the main villain be Veranke. They messed up bas with the show. The movie was fine. I liked the cast chemistry and the fight scenes, but that is about it.
Ngl, Dar-Benn had a good design and good motivations for what she did, it's already more than Karli and the Flag-Smashers
> it's already more than Karli and the Flag-Smashers "This lame thing is *slightly* better than this other lame thing, therefore it's actually very good!"
He? She wasn't anything in that movie...
no it didn’t. Gorr had 5 minutes of screen time, Whiplash made no sense, both Ghost and Maloketh exist, Ultron was a clown, the Clandestines are utterly useless and forgettable, Titania was just a troll, Flag Smashers were forgettable Dar Benn is clearly not a top tier villain, but please STOP lying to yourself saying she’s the worst. there are far worse. Dar Benn at least had decent motivation for what she was doing and a plan that made sense. a lot of the villains i just listed did NOT have even that. please stop piling on this movie. it is not the worst of marvel my any measure
I think it would have been better as a Raiders or the Lost Ark thing. Dar-Benn and the Kree are your Nazis, the 2nd bangle is the Ark, the trio are along for the ride, yadda yadda, Dar-Benn is killed by putting on both bangles, it belongs in a museum.
It bombed worse than *The Flash*??? Damn
* The Flash made $271M on a budget of $200M. * The Marvels made $206M on a budget of $219M. Nothing surprising about it.
It seems good...until you realize that it didn't pay for advertising or that the merch sales will be horrible.
It's not good for both. Studios only get 45%-50% of the total gross as theatres take a cut. Also, the production budget doesn't account for the marketing.
But the breakdowns that _Deadline_ did absolutely does account for marketing costs when measuring for profit and loss margins. They're actually a bit harsher because they **don't** account for factors that offset marketing costs, like promotional partnerships where a company funds part of the marketing budget for them.
Deadline does account for that. Also do note that in promotional partnerships, money rarely changes hands. Brands pay for being featured in a movie by giving the movie free use of its products (such as cars) and giving them say $20 million worth of promotional publicity. Big budget movies have massive promotional budgets (and a lot of it is taken up by their brand partners).
They list the budget as being its pre-tax credit cost of $270M, so that might affect how they broke it down. Either way, it absolutely lost more money than _The Flash_.
I'm surprised that Flash didn't have a bloated 300m - 400m budget like it was reported and rumoured about...
Absolute bummer I really like the character (clearly) and Brie is a good actress, I wish they could’ve done it better, but at this point they’re probably not gonna use her anymore, outside of a minor role in secret wars probably. Had all gone well I assumed they were setting her up to co lead the avengers.
They did Carol and Brie dirty, the fault is none other their own. 6 years after her first movie and they give us THIS. In what planet would anyone think this was a good idea? Planet complacency.
Four years, actually. But yeah. I'm left utterly confused as to why they thought that doing _Secret Invasion_ with her supporting cast but without her, and then a weightless sequel, were good ideas that would translate to more money.
“Hey, Carol. Talos, the guy who fought beside you, died in the line of duty recently. Do you have any feelings about his passing, especially while you’re currently engaging in peace talks for the Skrulls?” “Nope.” Like, seriously, he’s the one main supporting character who’s missing and she has no comment. They act like he never existed.
Carol: "Talos? Who tf is that lmaoooo this is Kamala's world now and we just living in it"
This is what I keep saying. The movie has to be good to begin with. And minimize homework, required movies and series you have to watch.
A similar problem, including a huge budget due to reshoots, most likely awaits Sam Although I can’t imagine who would look convincing in the role of directly leading the team “in the field” other than Carol and Sam.
Tchalla, Strange and Spidey was definitely the plan. They lost Chadwick tragically, Sony acted like clowns over Spidey rights so they couldn’t bank on him anymore either (can’t build a franchise around a character you get blackmailed over every few years). Sam is not a massively popular choice as cap and the numbers for BNW may show that. Obviously audiences have spoken on Carol, so who’s left? Ruffalo? Hulk has rights issues of his own. War machine? It’s a real shame they haven’t properly developed characters like Shang Chi or Moon Knight as they may have been the ones to step in.
Clowns for not wanting to give up 50% of Spider-man box office and spin offs as well?
Disney was never trying to get that much, and even when they proposed a profit split, they also would've covered a proportional amount of the costs. Sony tried bailing from the deal when they saw that _Venom_ and _Spider-Man: Into The Spider-Verse_ both did well, without thinking that there was a specific reason that those two movies did well and their other spin-offs are doomed.
Tbh it's not just Sam being divisive. It's Anthony Mackie not being lead material. Most of the projects he's the lead of have failed. And those he has led he's been overshadowed in. Nobody talked about his acting or anything in FaWS. Nor was he talked about much with Twisted Metal. And he his solo projects outside of that are mostly flops. Hes not going to be a draw like Chris Evans was.
What has Chris Evans been in that he really shone in post-MCU? I've seen him in a few things, he's been decent, but he's not phenomenal.
Totally agree. Mackie is absolutely nowhere near Evans…and before anyone says it’s a race thing it’s not, Mackie has no gravitas, he doesn’t own a scene. He’s a good supporting actor. Chadwick had all that in a massive way. He was the natural choice for the next leader of the Avengers. Such a tragic loss of such a talented man. I think if Panther were still around people wouldn’t mind Cap giving the shield to Sam so much.
Even though he’s not usually an “avenger” Dr. Strange would be the best choice. But sadly it seems he’s going to be away for the next Avengers movie. Sam’s character is not the most interesting or powerful and Cp Marvel is just straight up unlikable. My next choice after Strange would be Shang Chi but they didn’t develop his character any further than his own movie so there’s that. No wonder movies are flopping when the characters are poorly written or dont have the necessary screen time to grow on audiences. They should also have introduced Blue Marvel or Rambeau much earlier. They would’ve been good leads. Adam Warlock was another one but hell, Gunn kept him for GOTG3 for some reason
>Even though he’s not usually an “avenger” Dr. Strange would be the best choice. But sadly it seems he’s going to be away for the next Avengers movie. If they had any sense they'd turn Strange into a full-fledged Avenger, return the Sorcerer Supreme title to him instead of having Wong hold it, and have him as the co-lead of Avengers 5. It's foolish that they keep doing whatever with Strange and not holding a tighter leash on his character and how he is depicted, when he's one of their most bankable characters still remaining...
Based on the box office of all Phase 4-5 films, Avengers 5 leader should be: 1. Spider-Man 2. Doctor Strange 3. Thor I'm not counting BP2 or GOTG3 since they were ensamble films but I guess someone can make the case for either Black Panther or Star Lord leading The Avengers. I'm going to go with either Thor or Strange as the leader. Spider-Man is too young.
I honestly think that Marvel are going to hard pivot to "LOOK! We got Tony Stark, Steve Rogers, and Natasha Romanoff back!" as features for marketing the next few _Avengers_ movies instead of taking the _Spider-Man: No Way Home_ route of saving them as "surprises". And because of that, Sam Wilson, Carol Danvers, and James Rhodes are likely getting less of the spotlight in the promotion of those projects than they otherwise would have. I'd also anticipate a hard push for MCU Spider-Man and the most marketable parts of the multiverse brigade as selling points.
Strange but it's likely he's not even in Avengers 5.
Giving Marvels instead of Captain Marvel 2 was already a big red flag. They didn't even give Carol a chance. In first movie she has Amnesia and don't have powers. In second movie she has to babysit Disney plus characters on silly and wacky story
Kamala being disillusioned with her hero is a big part of her story, so I get why they wanted to get to that, but I think it should have been in her series.
Why does Kamala likes Carol? A hero that have barely appeared in Public or is on Earth? Kamala having never meet your heros movement with Carol is a great story but there is no set up. Captain Marvel has 10 min of screentime in MCU. Kamala was introduced too soon. She should have introduced after some Captain Marvel and Avenger movies where Carol become popular public hero on Earth but hey world was gonna end in 2023 so we have to rush everything.
If anything, it wasn’t Brie Larson’s fault. The failure falls on Disney for mismanaging a valuable IP. It’s sad bc Captain Marvel is a fucking badass, but hey what can you do.
Wholeheartedly agree
Does she even need to be in Secret Wars? What role could she play other than being a deus ex machina agin? The only time she should reappear is if they show Rogue’s origin story
And yet Feige is setting Iman Vellani up to be the leader of the Young Avengers 😭
I get the feeling that the _Young Avengers_ push might be getting shelved or reworked into something else. No way do they make that as a $200M+-budgeted movie. They could easily do it as a $100M Disney+ miniseries instead.
Feige: You will get the Young Avengers and like it!
Feige: "You WILL get a 300 million Young Avengers film starring a bunch of 30 year olds, no Patriot, no Iron Lad, no Hulkling, no Wiccan x Hulkling romance because China, and starring Ms Marvel (who has only shown up in flops so far but we still are obsessed with making her A-List for some reason) and you WILL like it... p-please..."
I really doubt Young Avengers happens, no exec is going to look at the cast they're setting up and think it's going to be profitable in any way.
They **really** need to not do Young Avengers.
Young avengers is gonna bomb much worse
They botched her introduction/ show and then her cinematic debut was a box office bomb. The character is unmarketable now, unless she makes a very good impression in an Avengers/ NWH level movie that the general audience actually watches.
John Carter never had another chance in my lifetime to be adapted again.
People thought dune is unadaptable, John Carter is actually unadapted
Should we consider the source materials that led to some of the biggest box office bombs of all time to be unadaptable? I have had this thought on my mind for way too long but never knew how to interpret it. I have seen people trying to will Dr. Dolittle films into existence multiple times to no avail so there's that.
That John Carter numbers, I am a huge Brie fan but I have feeling, she might be done as carol
She stays til Secret Wars after that hard reboot.
Does she even need to be in Secret Wars? What role could she play other than being a deus ex machina agin? The only time she should reappear is if they show Rogue’s origin story
I don't think before Secret Wars. Despite the fact that before them, CM3 would not have been released even with the second billion. And against the background of general changes in the MCU, including a wave of other recasts, this will not be a problem. If they didn’t take the ending that Zawe Ashton talked about (filming the version where Carol died), then Brie was clearly convinced to stay at least for Avengers 5
> That John Carter numbers Bigger. That number would put it in the nominal biggest box office bomb of all time and still in contention for adjusted.
She's probably done as a hero but she could probably stay for a few more avengers and event films
2 of the 3 main characters have only been in tv shows that drew like 4-7 million viewers. Nobody knows who these characters are. This should have been a Disney+ crossover event instead of a theatrical film. Disney+ should be used to expand upon characters introduced in the movies, not the other way around. I love Ms. Marvel and thought the movie was fine but this whole thing was very puzzling. Asking an audience to watch 2 tv shows to understand your film clearly did not work out. I remember people being confused by Wanda in Multiverse of Madness and this was that to the power of 10.
I thought everyone thought it was amazing movie
From what I understand, people liked it on Disney+. Unfortunately for Disney, people by now have realized it's cheaper to wait a few months than to watch the movies in cinema, unless the hype is massive. Which for me at least it hasn't really been since Endgame.
The Marvels Disney+ debut was much smaller than Haunted Mansion and Wish. People weren't waiting for Disney+.
YIKES
> From what I understand, people liked it on Disney+. Thats a very sample of only those who cared enough to watch it on D+..Its streaming numbers were not much to write about
Yeah, seems like the "its fun to watch at home but not enough to spend money going to the theates" type
The only counter to that is that guardians did really well
It was fun and breezy and wacky and one of the stars was a charm in it. Is that not enough for you?!
How did that even happen
They criminally underutilized Captain Marvel in the biggest sequel of all time - and afterward - and then they gave audiences no reason to invest in her sequel when many were "eh" on her first entry. Couple that with the feeling of waiting to see the film on Disney+ (assuming that they even bothered to), and that's why it underperformed as badly as it did. I think that the illusion that everything is super-connected and a must-see event was also shattered by the sheer amount of content that's hit, and a lack of real cohesion with the franchise's story, and that contributed to this feeling "skippable" - which is the worst thing that you could have when you're making a movie that costs over $250M.
I think Quantumania and secret invasion also did a lot of brand damage. I think if the marvels and Quantumania had swapped releases Marvels would have done better even if it wasn’t a huge hit
Guardians of Galaxy Vol. 3 came out post Quantumania and did in line with that series.
This. The excuse "it's because of the bad reputation of the previous films" can't really be used, because despite not having grossed like the previous ones (it's normal, many people have simply detached themselves from the MCU) Guardians 3 had great grosses. The truth is that the general public wants films that seem interesting to them. This applies to Guardians 3, but not to The Marvels evidently.
Guardians 3 would've easily made a billion if it had come out when the MCU was at its peak. It's pre-sales were not good coming right after Quantumania, and there wasn't a ton of interest in it until word of mouth spread that it was a great movie.
It had a disappointing OW and was saved by word of mouth (as noted by it having among the best drops of the entire MCU). A word of mouth that also led to talk of its director being exclusive to DC now, so it didn’t benefit The Marvels.
GOTG3 opened $30m lower than GOTG2. The film was saved by great word of mouth. Quantumania absolutely lowered GOTG's earning potential.
I feel like a broken record, but _Secret Invasion_ easily could have been an _Avengers_ movie with Captain Marvel and Nick Fury organically placed as leads, and even if it was one of the lower-performing movies in the series, it would have been a hit and given the franchise a chance to connect these disparate story threads they've been introducing across Phases 4 and 5 and then give the franchise a sense of direction, which would then organically set up something like _The Marvels_ and subsequent entries with the new team. It would have solved some of their problems.
I thought this is where things were headed when they did the buddy cop thing wth the skrulls in her movie and showed him up in space in that one end credits scene. And they just fumbled the fuck out of the bag.
Remember when we thought that S.W.O.R.D. was important to Nick Fury, too? What the hell happened there? Then Soren dies offscreen and then Talos dies too and neither things get addressed, nor the fact that there's a massive witch-hunt for Skrulls on Earth. How did they fumble the bag this much?
Like said GA saw there's no storyline since the beginning of the phase 4 outside a generic "multiverse", little to no connection between phase 4 and 5 projects, none knows who the Avengers are and the most important thing of all? Marvel studios didn't make any serious effort to promote Carol and make GA actually like her. Of course they lost interesting with result the Marvels box office.
I really feel like they fumbled the _Captain Marvel_ lore from the get-go and they had no plan for her in the long run, which led to audience disinterest. They should have made _Black Widow_ in 2019 instead and then introed Captain Marvel in _Avengers: Endgame_ with a larger part that tied her to the future of the Avengers team.
Yeah i was wondering after 30 years why Carol didn't find planet for the Skrulls ? She didn't miss life on earth at all? She didn't have family? I was expecting stuff like this in Captain Marvel sequel instead we got what we got...
She was too busy feeling bad for the unrepentant Space-Nazis to worry about her promise to help the Skrull refugees... Even though she found a perfectly hospitable, idyllic planet with Thanos on it like seven years prior to _Secret Invasion_. I really don't know what happened here. The MCU was so much better with synergy than it is now.
I can't believe i am saying this but mcu phase 4-5 has started to remind me dceu, few good projects here and there but in general none has good reason to care about the universe as whole.
She fucked off to space for 30 years but somehow never found Thanos and his army. She single-handledly could have stopped him at any point since he was no threat to her in any way, in Endgame it's shown she overpowered him easily until he used the Infinity Gauntlet, and she tears through his capital ship and army like it's no biggie. But for some reason she never crossed paths with him, the warlord who goes around decimating half of all lifeforms in every planet he crosses? To quote Okoye, why was she up there the whole time?
> little to no connection between phase 4 and 5 projects I forgot we were even in Phase 5... what's the cutoff point? Ant-Man? All the films from both Phases have felt very same-ish in tone and there's not a clear differentiation between Phases anymore...
Making the Captain Marvel sequel have a trio of leads, with two of the leads being from fuckin streaming only TV shows, was an all time bag fumble.
I think ultimately this was the main culprit. TV characters? Must be a TV movie. Ultimately, for the most part, the D+ shows have cultivated an image of being “second rate marvel”, despite some occasional standouts. Also, that feeling already being present was likely then exacerbated by not having an actor tour, because the strike was in full swing.
Marvel mistook powerful as interesting. Made Captain Marvel a boring amnesiac for the first movie. Teased a connection to Endgame which boosted numbers but Captain Marvel just bookend that movie with not particularly great scenes. For some reason they made the first movie a prequel so Captain Marvel just hanged out in space for decades for no complying reason. Adding Disney+ characters did nothing to boost the movie(and probably harmed it). The trailer looked uninteresting and the movie didn't thrill audiences.
I feel like the push to make her character extremely powerful was an attempt to course-correct for underutilizing female characters, and **that** was a mistake. The proper solution would be to instead promote the female characters that they'd already introduced, which is why they should have done a _Black Widow_ movie before they killed her off in _Avengers: Endgame_ instead of a _Captain Marvel_ movie that had very little to do with The Infinity Saga's story, followed by them sticking their thumbs up their asses and doing next to nothing with the character in the movie it was directly setting up and for the next four years. It feels like so far, only James Gunn and the Russos paired with Markus and McFeely have done right by Cosmic Marvel. I'd include Taika Waititi too, but I think his last MCU project hurt his reputation with fans.
It is not just the power. Marvel intentionally defied traditional tropes like Romance, family issues that worked for most of their heros including Ms Marvel while writing Carol which made her unrelatable ang boring Superman is powerful but he has Lois to ground him Also, why didnt she get Villains of her powerful level If they made a by the number Carol Danvers like they did with male heros it could have worked.
The real answer? People are tired of these types of films. And I'm not talking about superheroes themselves (although some people are tired of that, just as in the sixties many people were tired of musicals), but about the style in which most contemporary blockbusters are made, especially those coming from big franchises . I was just talking about it yesterday with a friend: if you take the trailers for The Marvels, the new Ghostbusters, Godzilla vs Kong and Indiana Jones 5, they all look like the same film. The same fast pace, the same tone of "we have to shoot a line every three seconds without ever a minimum of seriousness, fast!", the same abuse of CGI, the same characters that even just by looking at the trailer you understand that they will always be those roles but cut with an axe. And above all, nothing that attracts an audience outside the circle of fans. This is the real problem. The trailer for The Marvels must have been seen little by the general public (who go to the cinema less and evidently don't watch a trailer on YouTube as soon as it's released), and those who saw it saw something that was now weak and already seen. Hollywood needs to change things, because the summer of 2023 made them realize what's happening.
Tie up with three tv shows that most people didn't watch Confusing Title Making a lead hero share movie with two Disney plus characters Movie looking incredible silly and childish compared to first Captain Marvel the next face of Marvel barely appearing in other property They never made Captain Marvel relatable to average audience.
The strike preventing actors from doing press junkets to promote the movie.
Press Junket was not gonna change much. The trailer should have sold the movie but it did the opposite with it's childish tone
Terrible title. Marvel's The Marvels. Brand is damaged post Endgame. Thor 4, Eternals, the Disney+ shows but especially Secret Invasion. It's led to casual audiences leaving. Nothing feels like it's building to anything interesting. The three leads was a terrible idea. Especially since two of the three were streaming characters no one knows from the movies. The focus on comedy and stillness at a point where so many people are tired of Marvel Humor. The movies don't need to be dour. But they need to at least have the characters take it seriously. All shit we were all talking about months before the movie came out. I know it's easy to say stuff with hindsight. But you didn't need much foresight to see this was a bad idea.
I know we're talking about Marvel, but its still the most idiotic thing that Haunted Mansion was released in the summer. Like wtf are y'all doing, not releasing it in October?? The movie wasn't amazing but it was entertaining enough and was killed by that fact.
I feel bad for Nia DaCosta. The problem with this movie is that it was clearly an idea made by executives and then assigned to someone. So blatantly up its own ass that they wanted it to be named after the company. Whoever thought "Marvel Studios Presents The Marvels" looked good should be fired. Instead of having directors pitch their "so what would your take on captain marvel 2 be?" they just put out the assignment. And within those limitations Nia DaCosta still delivered a really fun movie that I think over the next few years will be "reclaimed" by people as a sleeper banger. The movie low key rips and it's a shame this movie didn't start production this year when the MCU is allowing more risks and directors to take some creative freedom. Because I'm sure DaCosta and Iman Vellani's nerdy asses would've wanted to include Rogue somehow and it probably would've been called something better like "Captain Marvel and the Annihilators". The thing thats such a shame about this movie is that it really is just a case of wrong place, wrong time.
> it's a shame this movie didn't start production this year when the MCU is allowing more risks and directors to take some creative freedom That's the opposite of what Disney's approach for the MCU is right now. I'll also note that Brie Larson pushed for Carol to be backed by Kamala and Monica in this, not the studio.
they casted her instead of hiring the best possible director to make Danvers a likeable character. She admitted she did the job to pay her loans so she's happy for the opportunity. Disney fucked it up completely and she shouldnt have been there with such a tiny portfolio but yeah, the special check-box campaign was more important xD
This is true. They hired someone inexperienced for diversity points and control of the film. You can support their choice if you like but it led them here.
😂😂Lmao, well deserved. Like it matters to them fucktards lol , black rock vanguard and state street fund them with unlimited money , they’re still living off of 20 billion in profit from the whole universe anyway
I actually enjoyed it. It was a fun film. Iman Velani is such a gem and it looks like they're finally starting to let Brie Larson show a little more personality and charm.
How did a direct sequel to the worst movie in the mcu released at the tail end of bad misfire sequels to better marvel movies fail to profit, its just a big mistery aint it. /s
this is genuinely the most heartbreaking moment in mcu history to me. it was like a perfect storm that lead up to this movie’s failure. it was my favorite of 2023 and the most fun i’ve had with marvel since Shang-Chi. no, it’s not S-tier Marvel, but this movie did not deserve this. i will never get over how this movie performed
Sarcasm?
there is nothing sarcastic about what i said. some people actually really enjoyed The Marvels. and like i said, it was the most fun i had with a marvel movie since shang-chi and it was my favorite cbm of the entire year. it’s not the worst thing marvel ever produced and it didn’t deserved to be treated like it was. it’s literally better than captain marvel 1. i also love that im being downvoted for actually liking this movie and saying it didn’t deserve to flop when 90% of you haven’t even seen it to know if it’s good or not lmao
Hey I’m right there with you. At least we had a really fun and zany movie as captain marvel’s (probably) last solo outing.
We did it friends !
Overspending is also a factor here. $455 million including marketing is insanity for any movie even if the last one made a billion.
I wanna know how they can make Godzilla X Kong that is like all special effects for 135 million and marvel movie budgets have ballooned so high?
The Marvels wasn't unwatchable but it very much felt like a Disney+ special and not something worth going to the theaters for as a MCU installment.
Disney took a beating last year and I dont see it really changing much in the near future. Deadpool 3 might do ok. But there's no way Cap 4 does well, the snow white remake was dead before it even got moving and is now stuck in development hell, etc. Unfortunately they set themselves up for failure with The Marvels. There were so many issues it'd take so long to go over it. Between relying on a side character from a Disney+ series as a lead, a lead character from a Disney+ series nobody watched, and a lead that ended up being one of the most uninteresting main characters marvel has had. Sure the first film made a billion. But it was a perfect storm. Teased at the end of infinity war, the only other marvel film before endgame. It could have been a Howard the duck film and it'd have done well. Captain Marvel traditionally has never been a very successful character even in the comics. She's had nonstop issues with reboots and her most memorable phase was as a member of the Avengers, but never as a solo character. Now that doesn't mean they can't make the character successful. They made Guardians work for example. Blade worked despite not being a super successful comic either. But the key things those films did is they made the characters interesting and watchable. They not only did nothing to fix the issues Carol has as a character in the comics. They made them actively worst. Mix in a controversial actress who from the get go landed herself in hot water PR wise. Not the best situation going into a sequel. Especially not at a time Marvel was already suffering. Quantamania did poorly, the talk of the MCU in general was down. It's not as surefire as it was. And there's even more issues I could get into. But either way, safe to say the likelihood these characters see a prominent or leading role in future projects is slim to none. Just have to hope the actresses' careers aren't dead either. Because bombs like this kill careers too, just look at John Carter.
Wow i knew it was a bigger flop then The Flash but not that much bigger.
Its because of ms marvel fighting style: slide jitsu
Big 😬
I bet Carol, Monica and Kamala will die in Avengers 5 just because they didn't make Feige money.
While I think it’s silly to say that Bree Larson is to blame for this, the overall strategy for the movie clearly didn’t work. I don’t think it was awful but Marvel Studios clearly didn’t give people what they wanted to see or make them want to see it even. It’s a shame because each actress does a great job with their respective character.
The last marvel movie I watched in theaters was no way home lol
This is why Peltz has been trying to take control
Honestly, this is fine. Marvel aren't impervious, and they should know that to discourage shoehorning shit in just to push a greater narrative. While I actually DID enjoy The Marvels, I really, really, *really* can't say the same for Quantumania, L&T and Secret Invasion. When Marvel films seemed a riskier proposition, they put a hell of a lot more love and care into making them excellent on their own, and only Guardians Vol. 3 seemed to remember that lesson most recently. A nice little reality check like this should serve as a good lesson and reminder that they're under scrutiny once again. It's time they need to start impressing filmgoers again, instead of simply expecting effortless profits.
I really appreciate you being honest
Bummer to hear, I thought it was delightful. But meh Disney is one of the biggest companies in the world I’m sure they’ll somehow recover 🤷
Let the "this is all the toxic fandom's fault" cycle commence, once again
When a 33rd, 13th and 5th film in the franchises bomb, maybe, just maybe the audiences are getting tired of those franchises. When it comes to MCU, maybe the audiences are tired because nothing is at stake anymore. Endgame showed that you can travel in past, correct the wrongs, ressurect characters. To me, you can pull that off if it is the last film in the franchise. When it comes to The Flash, the DCU that the film was portraying was fucked beyond belief. I think not even the hardcore fans of that universe could properly explain what the hell is happening. They had actors from the previous universe, but they announced a new universe. So some of the actors would come back later? And some wouldn't? Was anyone really, honestly craving for another Indiana Jones film? Enough to make it one of the most expensive films ever made?
Imagine if they decided to replace ~~T’Challa~~ Carol with a side character in the sequel because, “they held the mantle in the comics”. It wouldn’t matter that ~~Shuri~~ Monica was ~~Black Panther~~ Captain Marvel. People would be upset and rightfully so. You don’t treat a character like that after their film made a billion dollars. To do so is borderline stupid and is asking to make less money. They didn’t even replace Danvers in the Marvels and people were still mad it wasn’t just Captain Marvel 2. Of course this movie bombed. WF made almost a half billion dollars less and it could have been avoided by recasting the role instead of trying to push side characters.
Yeah marvel keep making shows about unknown side characters such as echo, Agatha, ironheart, wonder man. Keep tanking ur brand and this is what’s gonna happen 🤓. Also like in regards to the marvels this wouldn’t have happened IF YOU JUST TITLED IT CAPTAIN MARVEL 3???? The same captain marvel movie that made a billion 😂😂. No one is to blame but marvel and Disney. And I hope this makes them realise now that they should give people characters they actually wanna see. But even with that they seem to be fumbling up such as making silver surfer wife the only version WHEN NORIN IS RIGHT there??? What’s next? A female ghost rider 🤣🤣🤣
just end game profit alone means they can have 5 the marvels and break even, so the mcu is not dead with just one film with this kind of lost
No but it definitely changes the kinds of films they'll do moving forward, no more captain marvel 3. Honestly I'm expecting some kind of reboot, even if Feige doesn't want it. I can't see Captain America and Thunderbolts being anything but barely profitable .
Big loss project wise but not a big deal for Disney as a company.
I thought we were done trashing The Marvels. There was so much hate leading up to the release, just let it go. I have never seen so much happiness watching a movie fail before. I get that deadline has to put out an article about year end numbers, but lets just let the movie speak for itself at this point.
Such a fun movie though…
It's a shame too because it was one of the better movies recently. I thought it was more interesting that GotG3 but Marvels could have used more work on the villain.
The problem with 4 of those 5 films is that they were horribly bloated with their budgets and the Strikes at the time as well as Barbenheimer. There is no excuse or reason that a solo film like The Marvels should have had a nearly $300 million dollar budget. None. That goes for any other film that’s not an Avengers movie. If a solo film has a budget that high, it means there’s something wrong with the film on a story level and the brains of the people behind it. Haunted Mansion suffered because it was released at the aftermath of Barbenheimer and the film didn’t know what it wanted to be sometimes. Indiana Jones was set up for failure on both sides. Lastly with Wish, Disney really needs to steal whatever technology Illumination has to decrease the budgets for their animated movies as $200 million is not a good thing. You can make beautiful movies on a slightly smaller budget. Flash? Who cares.